If we no lynch, we throw away the opportunity of gaining a lynch by stopping another kill. And that’s if Ruma is even town, which he’s just not.
I completely understand what you're saying and Ruma's play today screams scum to me. But mechanically he's trapped tomorrow by this. He has no outs if we play it this way.
And we don't need another lynch. This route gives us two lynches and two question marks unless you're worried about Cantrip.
No lynching here leads to 3 clears (if we're counting Cantrip) and two questions. Those numbers always win.
It's not about salvaging pride on a bad read, it's about covering all the bases.
Its not Cantrip, but frankly I’m just as sure that it’s not you or Manasi either, and if I recall wagons yesterday, it’s not cether either.
@Shadow I don't understand why you of all people isn't worried about a no kill I guess. You keeping saying you and Ruma are the next two lynches locked in, but there really isn't any reason to suspect you over Manasi or Cether if Ruma flips town here. You've pulled the exact play that could be happening here before. Why couldn't Manasi or Cether have pulled a no kill here?
My argument is not really based on his behavior at all at this stage. He's objectively the most likely to be scum at this juncture. It's that he's claimed alignment cop and we can force him to hard clear his needed mislynch (you).
Ruma never survives this game. He just doesn't. But I don't want to go to a final 4 of (cantrip/me), you, Cether, Manasi. It's a low percentage world but from this spot I think we lose in that world a decent % of time.
I get the desire for a perfect game. And I don't hate yolo'ing it but if we're all wrong (which is unlikely) tomorrow is going to suck.
@Grape, I don’t think you’re wrong, I just don’t think it’s necessary. Also, if there is a tomorrow, go for the protect on someone else, it’s just a better play.
Also, if im wrong, I will personally apologize to you for the loss.
Setup:
Grapefruit: doctor/bodyguard/nothing
Shadow:
Jailer/nothing/lose all abilities
Cether:
Track/nothing/watch
Manasi:
Nothing/neighborize/nothing
Cantrip:
Nothing/nothing/nothing; you win all RPS games
Also, shadow. The activity is never an indicator of my alignment. It's the content of the posts in general.
Grape noticed that I was trying to copy my town style, but... there was something missing.
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I am also called Riku. I tend to prefer being called riku.
Also, shadow. The activity is never an indicator of my alignment. It's the content of the posts in general.
Grape noticed that I was trying to copy my town style, but... there was something missing.
If I may I think the follow up gusto was what was missing. You had the initial part down but you never really took a strong stance. If you'd been able to follow up the "I claimed Vanilla-izer as a cop to generate reactions and I saw x, y, z" it might have been more convincing. To me at least. Shadow was probably always going to be at your throat after the RPS game went the way it did.
Also, shadow. The activity is never an indicator of my alignment. It's the content of the posts in general.
Grape noticed that I was trying to copy my town style, but... there was something missing.
If I may I think the follow up gusto was what was missing. You had the initial part down but you never really took a strong stance. If you'd been able to follow up the "I claimed Vanilla-izer as a cop to generate reactions and I saw x, y, z" it might have been more convincing. To me at least. Shadow was probably always going to be at your throat after the RPS game went the way it did.
Well, I was a cop/ vanillizer lol. Which actually felt better than the fake claim we were given. :') I've seen vanillizer as town as often as cop so it didn't seem to be a bad claim.
Private Mod Note
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I am also called Riku. I tend to prefer being called riku.
It definitely wasn't a bad claim. Had me clamoring to give you another day. You just needed to have "thoughts" on people's alignments if you're going to play the "I claimed the vanilla'izer half first to generate reactions" card. You just didn't have anything on D2 other than no kill speculation and theory.
Granted after D1 you were in an awful position and it probably wasn't salvageable but your lack of thoughts didn't help your case.
Nothing to worry about. Ruma was obvious scum today really. I just got too excited trying to break the game mechanically.
@Cether who did you target N1?
I targeted you (scissors beat paper = win) and tracked you going to Cantrip, which was like the first thing you said on day two. I really didn't want to claim/say anything about that because it was already known info.
I was thinking to counter claim Ruma's cop claim since I was an investigative role but I wasn't sure if there could be two in a micro, I think on page 4 or so I asked if two would be reasonable in a micro especially with the R/P/S making roles less consistent. No one responded to it so I just let it be.
@Cether you claiming the tracker/watcher would have been just about a slam dunk here. You can never be 100% sure but in a 7 player game an alignment cop and a watcher/tracker is probably too much even with the RPS mechanic diluting them. Your instinct to protect your role was solid though. In your shoes I would have claimed but staying quietly skeptical of Ruma's claim and pushing him is entirely valid. Not confirming my claim of visiting Cantrip was definitely the right thing to do.
Hope you enjoyed your first game here in quite a while!
This was a fantastically enjoyable game, both in mechanics and the players involved. Thanks, everyone, for a good game, and thanks, Tom, for being (as always) an entertaining host.
Shadow and Grape for town mvps; they both worked hard to ensure that the end result was a town win!
I had it down to maybe Ruma but more likely Cether. Won't go into details as to why; just glad I didn't try to make the Cether case before Shadow came in with his jail on Ruma.
@Manasi: Sorry about the scissors. I actually picked scissors N1, but...won even though we drew. It would have been a blast to get neighborized, though.
That's what I was talking about, BTW, Shadow, when I said "if you think you caught me in a lie..." I wondered if you had cottoned to Grape saying he threw paper and it seeming obvious that he lost, which would have made my choice scissors...and then it was obvious that I *didn't* pick scissors based on Manasi's result.
I definitely am not deserving of MVP this game. I think it's a tossup between Shadow and Cantrip for MVP. Shadow was all over it D2 and had the Kill blocked. But I'd lean towards Cantrip for leading a scum lynch on D1 and earning a ton of strong town reads on himself.
Oh, and I was pretty sure that the NK couldn't be RPS-based because that'd be too much variability for a game, but I postulated that the NK might be something like "when you perform the NK, you ALWAYS win RPS", and then my role was a foil (essentially bulletproof), which is why I polled. I wanted to see if scum might hard-yes or hard-no the idea.
Shadow, glad you can read me so well (I think...at least I'm glad when we're both town). I was pretty sure this was town!Shadow, but not 100%. :/
Oh, and I was pretty sure that the NK couldn't be RPS-based because that'd be too much variability for a game, but I postulated that the NK might be something like "when you perform the NK, you ALWAYS win RPS", and then my role was a foil (essentially bulletproof), which is why I polled. I wanted to see if scum might hard-yes or hard-no the idea.
Shadow, glad you can read me so well (I think...at least I'm glad when we're both town). I was pretty sure this was town!Shadow, but not 100%. :/
Oh yeah, I was going to say hard no on the kill being RPS based, but I liked that you wanted to get some reactions down from players on that. It was an angle I specifically didn’t think you’d take as scum.
I’m glad I can read you so well as well!
Also, @grape, good call trying to protect Cantrip!
I just now discovered the existance of youtube tags. Not realizing they existed immediately makes me the LVP. This game would have been worlds different with embedded waiting videos...
I just now discovered the existance of youtube tags. Not realizing they existed immediately makes me the LVP. This game would have been worlds different with embedded waiting videos...
FWIW; imbedded videos are awful on mobile and end up covering up text and really getting in the way, so your links were much appreciated
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
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I'm pretty sure I hammered him anyway.
My argument is not really based on his behavior at all at this stage. He's objectively the most likely to be scum at this juncture. It's that he's claimed alignment cop and we can force him to hard clear his needed mislynch (you).
Ruma never survives this game. He just doesn't. But I don't want to go to a final 4 of (cantrip/me), you, Cether, Manasi. It's a low percentage world but from this spot I think we lose in that world a decent % of time.
I get the desire for a perfect game. And I don't hate yolo'ing it but if we're all wrong (which is unlikely) tomorrow is going to suck.
This is the wrong way to do it but it's probably right regardless.
Vote: Ruma
Also, if im wrong, I will personally apologize to you for the loss.
Ruma (4): shadow, cantrip, manasi, grape
Not voting: cether, ruma
Ruma has been lynched!
He was:
Town has acheived a perfect victory!
Setup:
Grapefruit: doctor/bodyguard/nothing
Shadow:
Jailer/nothing/lose all abilities
Cether:
Track/nothing/watch
Manasi:
Nothing/neighborize/nothing
Cantrip:
Nothing/nothing/nothing; you win all RPS games
Infinity:
Busdriver/nothing/redirector
Ruma:
Vanillizer/rolecop/nothing
Nothing to worry about. Ruma was obvious scum today really. I just got too excited trying to break the game mechanically.
@Cether who did you target N1?
Grape noticed that I was trying to copy my town style, but... there was something missing.
If I may I think the follow up gusto was what was missing. You had the initial part down but you never really took a strong stance. If you'd been able to follow up the "I claimed Vanilla-izer as a cop to generate reactions and I saw x, y, z" it might have been more convincing. To me at least. Shadow was probably always going to be at your throat after the RPS game went the way it did.
Well, I was a cop/ vanillizer lol. Which actually felt better than the fake claim we were given. :') I've seen vanillizer as town as often as cop so it didn't seem to be a bad claim.
Granted after D1 you were in an awful position and it probably wasn't salvageable but your lack of thoughts didn't help your case.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
Was there a scum chat?
It was Mtg PM so not really. Infinity couldnt use quicktopic or discord and I find the Pm system abysmal.
I targeted you (scissors beat paper = win) and tracked you going to Cantrip, which was like the first thing you said on day two. I really didn't want to claim/say anything about that because it was already known info.
I was thinking to counter claim Ruma's cop claim since I was an investigative role but I wasn't sure if there could be two in a micro, I think on page 4 or so I asked if two would be reasonable in a micro especially with the R/P/S making roles less consistent. No one responded to it so I just let it be.
Hope you enjoyed your first game here in quite a while!
Shadow and Grape for town mvps; they both worked hard to ensure that the end result was a town win!
I had it down to maybe Ruma but more likely Cether. Won't go into details as to why; just glad I didn't try to make the Cether case before Shadow came in with his jail on Ruma.
@Manasi: Sorry about the scissors. I actually picked scissors N1, but...won even though we drew. It would have been a blast to get neighborized, though.
That's what I was talking about, BTW, Shadow, when I said "if you think you caught me in a lie..." I wondered if you had cottoned to Grape saying he threw paper and it seeming obvious that he lost, which would have made my choice scissors...and then it was obvious that I *didn't* pick scissors based on Manasi's result.
Shadow, glad you can read me so well (I think...at least I'm glad when we're both town). I was pretty sure this was town!Shadow, but not 100%. :/
I’m glad I can read you so well as well!
Also, @grape, good call trying to protect Cantrip!
You're welcome.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player