I went back and looked and it kinda does make sense.
unvote
This seems too Rodemy and not that scum. In my last post I remembered wrongly that the posts where one and not separate, but with them being separate Rodemy's explanation makes sense.
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False. I voted you thinking you were the serial killer. Then thought you were trying to prove you were town by “quoting your role pm”( but using the role pm in the beginning as a guide)
I never voted you for quoting your role pm, I just pointed out you couldn’t quote it. I figured I’d Catch scum due to not being modkilled. Make sense?
Fair, but that doesn't change the fact that you didn't unvote me after I posted the town role PM. Why wouldn't you unvote me for doing so if you thought I'd quoted my actual role PM? Why did you instead maintain your vote on a town?
I’m pretty sure that was Highroller (I’m mobile so double checking at the moment is hard), and I hate that he still insists on mass claiming. Yes it helped us solve the game in Banned, but that was Day 2 AFTER I did rad stuff and had two scum dead.
Get your facts straight. Wuffles himself outright stated that my claim on day one that a mass claim would break the game was "actually 100% correct." And it did.
Wish I had a scum game to compare to but Highroller reads super pure despite the weirdness of the way he's calling for a claim. His opening of Banned inspired more confidence (or fear in my case) because he put the info out there like he had nothing to hide. Made his stance seem legit. Only flavor claiming here undermines that. But not interested in pushing him at all despite that.
First of all, (A) confirmation that the mafia fear day one claims, and (B) under normal circumstances I would be happy to tell you everything about my role. This is a decidedly abnormal circumstance, for reasons I would be happy to get into tomorrow.
@Highroller: The game is tagged as Normal, and by MTGS definitions, is a Normal.
Based on our discussions in the last game, I'm fairly certain what you call Normal is what MTGS calls a "Basic".
Subcreatures! Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, the Traveler, has come! Choose!
Until the end of Day 1, in addition to the normal vote, each player may vote (and unvote) to choose the form of Gozer: • Gozer the Traveler
• Gozer the Destructor
• Gozer the Gozerian
I believe Gozer uses the Destructor form to end worlds - the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man was its chosen "destructor form" for Earth. Traveller vs. Gozerian has no distinction I can think of.
Gozer the Gozerian sounds wild. I want to try that.
Also Gozer is pretty close to "gaozar" as a pronunciation which is an insult in Romanian. I think the insult is supposed to be used to call someone gay as "gaura" means hole and usually refers to the anus, with "gaozar" being something like the man who does ********s, but it's mostly used in a playful manner and never when you want to seriously insult someone so yeah, the name is funny for me.
vote Gozer the Gozerian
RE is giving me good townie vibes while tom is giving me bad vibes. Nothing specific from tom just yet though.
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I feel loved. Tom seems towny, Rod seems towny. elijah needs to explain more
oooo this is wolfy, too
if ruma is town Elijah would have to be the world's most tone deaf scum to say this after all that
I like this thought from Tom.
In post 96 Kamikazee proposes Name Claim to allow better targeting, however in post 97 (The next post, you see) he makes the statement that flavorgaming is unreliable. This to me feels a lot like scum fishing for info. Rodemy does the same exact thing in 98 and 99. This feels coordinated.
To qualify my earlier statement a little bit: flavorgaming alignment is risky. My own #96 is flavorgaming of a sort - for example, I'm assuming that both Peter Venkman and Dana Barrett are Human from flavor - but I think that kind of flavorgaming is generally fine. MTGS mods generally don't change things like "is this character human". The only recent counterexample I can think of is very minor - Golgari Grave-Troll's colors being changed in Banned mafia.
Slight back peddle here, but provides "the only recent example" being the very last game to finish.
Yeah, I mulled over it and think that Rodemy made a scum derp and not a Rodemy derp.
vote rodemy
To me it feels like he kinda got mad that someone quoted the town win con and became confirmed town in his eyes so he tried to throw shade not realising the wincon is in the first post.
The old "I thought about it and" reluctant vote. Do not like.
I went back and looked and it kinda does make sense.
unvote
This seems too Rodemy and not that scum. In my last post I remembered wrongly that the posts where one and not separate, but with them being separate Rodemy's explanation makes sense.
Now I don't know how to feel.
As far as this Bulldozer the traveler non-sense, I believe someone in the game is him and we are voting on giving him an ability for the night. I'm guessing Traveler is a Rolecop of some sort, Destructor is a one shot kill and I'm not sure on the 3rd option. Maybe bulletproof?
I wonder what happens if we don't vote on any of those options.
[center]Ghostbusters Mafia A Normal Setup for 16 Players
Created by Cantripmancer
Modded by Cantripmancer and Wuffles_II
Reviewed by Ecophagy and Prophylaxis
That wording is in the mod's post #4. And you earlier acknowledged this yourself: "The win condition was revealed".
Right, but Rodemy didn't know that.
Rodemy voted me believing that I had quoted my role PM.
False. I voted you thinking you were the serial killer. Then thought you were trying to prove you were town by “quoting your role pm”( but using the role pm in the beginning as a guide)
I never voted you for quoting your role pm, I just pointed out you couldn’t quote it. I figured I’d Catch scum due to not being modkilled. Make sense?
Wish I had a scum game to compare to but Highroller reads super pure despite the weirdness of the way he's calling for a claim. His opening of Banned inspired more confidence (or fear in my case) because he put the info out there like he had nothing to hide. Made his stance seem legit. Only flavor claiming here undermines that. But not interested in pushing him at all despite that.
First of all, (A) confirmation that the mafia fear day one claims, and (B) under normal circumstances I would be happy to tell you everything about my role. This is a decidedly abnormal circumstance, for reasons I would be happy to get into tomorrow.
If you read the scum chat I actually thought it could be good for us. I felt my claim was naturally townie. I was worried about the other two's though. Obviously I was very wrong about how townie my own was since it was (largely) what got me lynched. I intially wanted to go along with the mass claim but decided to go for the credit of discrediting you for pushing it instead since my buddies didn't have safe fake claims.
And I'm happy to table the claim talk till at least tomorrow.
Observation: We know there's a Human/Ecto mechanic. It seems like a name claim would make it obvious, in all or at least most cases, whether someone is Human or Ecto. This could help both town targeting and scum targeting, depending on who has what powers. I think the relevant reasoning is basically the same as for a general mass claim; it comes down to whether you think town or scum gets a bigger advantage from extra targeting info.
My wording is probably off. I meant more like Kamikaze proposes argues that a name claim will help to target.
Observation: We know there's a Human/Ecto mechanic. It seems like a name claim would make it obvious, in all or at least most cases, whether someone is Human or Ecto. This could help both town targeting and scum targeting, depending on who has what powers. I think the relevant reasoning is basically the same as for a general mass claim; it comes down to whether you think town or scum gets a bigger advantage from extra targeting info.
My wording is probably off. I meant more like Kamikaze proposes argues that a name claim will help to target.
Actually on this quote I'd like KA to take a stance on which side he thinks gains a bigger advantage.
Observation: We know there's a Human/Ecto mechanic. It seems like a name claim would make it obvious, in all or at least most cases, whether someone is Human or Ecto. This could help both town targeting and scum targeting, depending on who has what powers. I think the relevant reasoning is basically the same as for a general mass claim; it comes down to whether you think town or scum gets a bigger advantage from extra targeting info.
My wording is probably off. I meant more like Kamikaze proposes argues that a name claim will help to target.
I'm either misunderstanding or not seeing what you're seeing.
What is your stance on flavor claims?
@Highroller
I asked you a couple questions based on your massclaim plan?
I agree that mass claim pressures scum. But that's it. I've yet to see you provide a mechanical advantage in doing so.
~~~
*checks time* vote: elijah
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@RE I believe they’re useless at best and disastrous in the worst case scenario. I’ve definitely played games and even hosted a few that purposely obfuscate flavor.
For example - I would guess one of the Ghostbusters are mafia in this game and at least one is ecto.
I DIDN’T THINK YOU QUOTED YOUR ACTUAL ROLE PM FFS.
I’m done explaining.
Because here's what doesn't make a damn bit of sense to me, Rodemy.
1. If someone were to quote their town role PM directly, without a mod or anyone else having posted it beforehand, that would confirm beyond a shadow of doubt that the person's alignment as town. That's why we have the rule of no quoting PMs, as if it were allowed, the game would break.
2. You didn't know the mod had posted the town role PM.
3. I quoted the town role PM, verbatim, and you continued to vote for me.
That doesn't make any sense. If someone quotes the town role PM, and you didn't know the mod had quoted the town role PM earlier in the thread, that person should, by your rationale, be a confirmed town. What town would vote for a confirmed town?
You later tried to defend yourself by saying that you thought that since the mod didn't kill me, that I was lying. That also doesn't make sense. You didn't know the mod had posted the town role PM. How, if I were lying, would I be able to quote the town role PM verbatim? You're saying you thought I'd made up a fake role PM. How could I, independent of any knowledge of what the exact wording of the win condition for the town was, come up with the exact wording of the win condition for the town?
Because the only explanation, as far as I can tell, for this chain of posts by you is that you didn't know what the wording of the town role PM was prior to it having been pointed out to you as officially posted by the mod. So my vote stands.
If you read the scum chat I actually thought it could be good for us. I felt my claim was naturally townie. I was worried about the other two's though. Obviously I was very wrong about how townie my own was since it was (largely) what got me lynched.
As I said, "confirmation that the mafia fear day one claims."
And I'm happy to table the claim talk till at least tomorrow.
No, that's not what I said. I said I'd be happy to share role abilities tomorrow. I can't think of any reason not to share role names, at least, today.
I’d say odds of the mod randomizing the doomsday thing in the case of a tie or abstained votes is pretty high. He’s not just gonna let a mechanic like that go to waste.
@tom: As yet insufficient data for a strong opinion. Why Vaimes specifically?
@Grape: I lean on the side of holding back info when possible. I don't think a flavor claim will strongly aid either side, but I think mafia is generally better suited to make use of generic info dumps.
Highroller is acting very much like he did in Banned, and I think this is town Highroller. His actual arguments are weak as they hinge on making a lot of assumptions about how MTGS games work. For example, his point 1 is wrong because it assumes that scum can't get a town role PM, which is false - I was scum in Phantom Tollbooth and got a full town PM, with a safe falseclaim and the town win condition all right there. But he's pushing forward with confidence on those assumptions. I think he believes that he's making strong arguments.
@Highroller I'm in camp all or nothing. We shouldn't partial claim if we're going to do it. I'm also more inclined to wait till tomorrow. Claiming flavor accomplishes nothing on it's own. I've been in games like this where it's flavorwise faction vs faction, the scum faction always has safe claims.
One was a zombies vs humans game where it was a surprise that town were zombies. And scum knew that but town didn't realize they knew and shot themselves in the foot. Another was an arkham horror flavored one where the cultists had townie halves of their PM's to claim safely. And last off the top of my head was Revolution mafia where player's where given safe claims of mtgs'ers who weren't in the game or council members to safe claim.
Flavor claiming will not help us solve the game.
@RE why am I a town lean?
@Vaimes thoughts on Rod?
@Tom Can't argue with that. Thoughts on Vaimes play in this game?
@RE I believe they’re useless at best and disastrous in the worst case scenario. I’ve definitely played games and even hosted a few that purposely obfuscate flavor.
For example - I would guess one of the Ghostbusters are mafia in this game and at least one is ecto.
couple ways this game could be constructed:
-Scum Ghostbusters vs town ghosts
If sk/neutral probs gozer flavor
-Town Ghostbusters+side characters vs mafia gozer/gatekeeper/etc
-Ghostbusters mixed alignment (maybe even town/town/neutral/mafia), hodgepodge of flavor.
-randomized
Obviously have additional thoughts after getting my own role but keeping those to myself
unvote
#35 @Rodemy: good luck getting Terry to answer your questions.
#51 @grape: rezom is good enough
#67 @highroller: no, and also can we not do this again?
#76: Rumanshi doesnt refute RE's assertion that their votes have been based on thinking the player is scum.
#81 @Fuwa: Why do you like Rumanshi here when i'm getting the opposite feeling?
#92,94 @Vezok: can we not do this again?
The only argument I'd see in favor of a flavor claim is if there weren't enough named human characters to fill out the roster but after a wiki dive I'm convinced there would be enough. I'm also working on the assumption that all humans are town based on the Peck flip and my own information but that may be a foolish assumption.
Grape, thoughts on the thoughts I’ve already posted about Rod?
My thoughts are it feels like you should be voting him based on what you've said and I'm not sure why you aren't. Tom isn't a bad vote just think you've expressed stronger reasons to scum read Rod.
@RE I believe they’re useless at best and disastrous in the worst case scenario. I’ve definitely played games and even hosted a few that purposely obfuscate flavor.
For example - I would guess one of the Ghostbusters are mafia in this game and at least one is ecto.
Unless I missed it, nobody is claiming flavor is alignment indicative. However vez has softclaimed a role where flavor claims would be helpful. And I believe that is why there is any discussion of flavor claiming. But if that is your stance, then it makes more sense why you'd find the suggestion scummy.
Your call out of Rodemy for his tom townread and boldness in requesting more votes on him, but mostly you pulling up Highroller's post from another game as a pointer against him/his massclaim suggestion.
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Your call out of Rodemy for his tom townread and boldness in requesting more votes on him, but mostly you pulling up Highroller's post from another game as a pointer against him/his massclaim suggestion.
I wasn't the first to call out Rod and I pull up posts from other as both alignments. It's something I did heavily in my last scum game (which happens to have been my last game).
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unvote
This seems too Rodemy and not that scum. In my last post I remembered wrongly that the posts where one and not separate, but with them being separate Rodemy's explanation makes sense.
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Get your facts straight. Wuffles himself outright stated that my claim on day one that a mass claim would break the game was "actually 100% correct." And it did.
First of all, (A) confirmation that the mafia fear day one claims, and (B) under normal circumstances I would be happy to tell you everything about my role. This is a decidedly abnormal circumstance, for reasons I would be happy to get into tomorrow.
Normal games don't have Ghostbusters and Ecto. What about this game strikes you as normal?
Based on our discussions in the last game, I'm fairly certain what you call Normal is what MTGS calls a "Basic".
I’m done explaining.
*ahem*
@fuwa
I addressed why I thought that Tom post was townie later down the line
Until the end of Day 1, in addition to the normal vote, each player may vote (and unvote) to choose the form of Gozer:
• Gozer the Traveler
• Gozer the Destructor
• Gozer the Gozerian
Vote Gozer the Traveller
Huh?
I did nothing whatsoever.
When someone asks if I’m a god, I say yes!
vote gozer the traveller
Second of all everyone think about something really harmless
Also Gozer is pretty close to "gaozar" as a pronunciation which is an insult in Romanian. I think the insult is supposed to be used to call someone gay as "gaura" means hole and usually refers to the anus, with "gaozar" being something like the man who does ********s, but it's mostly used in a playful manner and never when you want to seriously insult someone so yeah, the name is funny for me.
vote Gozer the Gozerian
RE is giving me good townie vibes while tom is giving me bad vibes. Nothing specific from tom just yet though.
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Where did he "stand up for Rumi" ?
I like this thought from Tom.
In post 96 Kamikazee proposes Name Claim to allow better targeting, however in post 97 (The next post, you see) he makes the statement that flavorgaming is unreliable. This to me feels a lot like scum fishing for info. Rodemy does the same exact thing in 98 and 99. This feels coordinated.
Slight back peddle here, but provides "the only recent example" being the very last game to finish.
Oh no - I feel opposite.
I still don't like Highroller pushing the PM issue. Feels icky.
I like Vaimes for 122-124 but disagree with his current Tom view. I like his stance on claiming info.
[/quote]
The old "I thought about it and" reluctant vote. Do not like.
Now I don't know how to feel.
As far as this Bulldozer the traveler non-sense, I believe someone in the game is him and we are voting on giving him an ability for the night. I'm guessing Traveler is a Rolecop of some sort, Destructor is a one shot kill and I'm not sure on the 3rd option. Maybe bulletproof?
I wonder what happens if we don't vote on any of those options.
This is my current leaning.
Think the individual posts are [whatever to weird] but the whole looks kinda towny maybe?
vote: gozer the destructor
First ISO dive time!
Uh-huh.
Vote stands.
Anyway more importantly you're jumping at shadows trying to find serious votes while giving a super flimsy explanation to town read tom.
Vote: Gozer the Gozerian
You trying out the ruma strategy?
If you read the scum chat I actually thought it could be good for us. I felt my claim was naturally townie. I was worried about the other two's though. Obviously I was very wrong about how townie my own was since it was (largely) what got me lynched. I intially wanted to go along with the mass claim but decided to go for the credit of discrediting you for pushing it instead since my buddies didn't have safe fake claims.
And I'm happy to table the claim talk till at least tomorrow.
My wording is probably off. I meant more like Kamikaze
proposesargues that a name claim will help to target.Actually on this quote I'd like KA to take a stance on which side he thinks gains a bigger advantage.
@tom thoughts on Vaimes?
What is your stance on flavor claims?
@Highroller
I asked you a couple questions based on your massclaim plan?
I agree that mass claim pressures scum. But that's it. I've yet to see you provide a mechanical advantage in doing so.
~~~
*checks time*
vote: elijah
Grape - light town lean
riku - time will tell
togs/rezombied/tubba - where you at?
vaimes/Terry/tom/Kami/EtR - neutral/needs more
rodemy/fuwa/elijah/high - awkward
@Rodemy
Are you voting High solely for thinking he is serial killer?
For example - I would guess one of the Ghostbusters are mafia in this game and at least one is ecto.
A. Those are three names for the same creature.
B. Gozer the Traveler does NOT sound mild ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSp5QwKRwqM , skip to 1:52 for relevant monologue)
C. What happens if we get a three-way tie?
Because here's what doesn't make a damn bit of sense to me, Rodemy.
1. If someone were to quote their town role PM directly, without a mod or anyone else having posted it beforehand, that would confirm beyond a shadow of doubt that the person's alignment as town. That's why we have the rule of no quoting PMs, as if it were allowed, the game would break.
2. You didn't know the mod had posted the town role PM.
3. I quoted the town role PM, verbatim, and you continued to vote for me.
That doesn't make any sense. If someone quotes the town role PM, and you didn't know the mod had quoted the town role PM earlier in the thread, that person should, by your rationale, be a confirmed town. What town would vote for a confirmed town?
You later tried to defend yourself by saying that you thought that since the mod didn't kill me, that I was lying. That also doesn't make sense. You didn't know the mod had posted the town role PM. How, if I were lying, would I be able to quote the town role PM verbatim? You're saying you thought I'd made up a fake role PM. How could I, independent of any knowledge of what the exact wording of the win condition for the town was, come up with the exact wording of the win condition for the town?
Because the only explanation, as far as I can tell, for this chain of posts by you is that you didn't know what the wording of the town role PM was prior to it having been pointed out to you as officially posted by the mod. So my vote stands.
As I said, "confirmation that the mafia fear day one claims."
No, that's not what I said. I said I'd be happy to share role abilities tomorrow. I can't think of any reason not to share role names, at least, today.
@Grape: I lean on the side of holding back info when possible. I don't think a flavor claim will strongly aid either side, but I think mafia is generally better suited to make use of generic info dumps.
Highroller is acting very much like he did in Banned, and I think this is town Highroller. His actual arguments are weak as they hinge on making a lot of assumptions about how MTGS games work. For example, his point 1 is wrong because it assumes that scum can't get a town role PM, which is false - I was scum in Phantom Tollbooth and got a full town PM, with a safe falseclaim and the town win condition all right there. But he's pushing forward with confidence on those assumptions. I think he believes that he's making strong arguments.
One was a zombies vs humans game where it was a surprise that town were zombies. And scum knew that but town didn't realize they knew and shot themselves in the foot. Another was an arkham horror flavored one where the cultists had townie halves of their PM's to claim safely. And last off the top of my head was Revolution mafia where player's where given safe claims of mtgs'ers who weren't in the game or council members to safe claim.
Flavor claiming will not help us solve the game.
@RE why am I a town lean?
@Vaimes thoughts on Rod?
@Tom Can't argue with that. Thoughts on Vaimes play in this game?
-Scum Ghostbusters vs town ghosts
If sk/neutral probs gozer flavor
-Town Ghostbusters+side characters vs mafia gozer/gatekeeper/etc
-Ghostbusters mixed alignment (maybe even town/town/neutral/mafia), hodgepodge of flavor.
-randomized
Obviously have additional thoughts after getting my own role but keeping those to myself
#35 @Rodemy: good luck getting Terry to answer your questions.
#51 @grape: rezom is good enough
#67 @highroller: no, and also can we not do this again?
#76: Rumanshi doesnt refute RE's assertion that their votes have been based on thinking the player is scum.
#81 @Fuwa: Why do you like Rumanshi here when i'm getting the opposite feeling?
#92,94 @Vezok: can we not do this again?
still catching up
My thoughts are it feels like you should be voting him based on what you've said and I'm not sure why you aren't. Tom isn't a bad vote just think you've expressed stronger reasons to scum read Rod.
vez - town lean
Grape - light town lean
riku - time will tell
rodemy/fuwa/elijah/high - awkward
I wasn't the first to call out Rod and I pull up posts from other as both alignments. It's something I did heavily in my last scum game (which happens to have been my last game).