Making a post about why I think Vezo is Town feels like a complete waste of my time. But as multiple people have asked for it:
I liked his initial reaction to Highroller's claim.
Don't know what to make of highroller's claim. It doesn't help my role.
Not the part where he says he doesn't know what to make of HR's claim - that's blank - the other part. The part where he claims a teeny-tiny part of his role, or rather, disclaims something as being his role. He's volunteering that his role has nothing to do with the Goblin that HR is putting in the graveyard each day. It's a small thing, and it might not even be correct from a gameplay standpoint for him to be revealing anything about his role, but it's a very spontaneous, town-feeling reaction.
Rezombied had a bizarre reaction to it and voted him (because GF had opined that we shouldn't reveal anything about our cards/roles, and Vez was going against that). Vez correctly pointed out that this was stupid (in so many words). That whole exchange is just + for Vez because Rezombied was making no sense.
I like when GF accuses Vez of "commenting for commenting's sake" (as though that were a scummy thing) and Vez responds with:
That's because it was commenting for commenting's sake. It's in the same post where I say I'm excited about my card. The post was never intended to be analysed so deeply.
That's a Town response.
Someone (Highroller?) accused him of contradicting himself because he seemed to approve of Highroller's claim, and said that a mass claim later in the game might be beneficial but also said in general he was opposed to mass claiming early in this game (at least on D1). With the caveat that if some player in particular felt like they ought to claim for whatever reason, then it might be correct for them to do so depending on their role. There is nothing wrong with this position. I thought Vez explained himself well. He then proceeded to Town-read Highroller for his convictions, despite the fact that Highroller was attacking him, which is not your typical scum move.
He voted Cantrip, and to be fair here, I haven't reviewed any arguments against Cantrip yet. What I have remembered about his postings is that most of them have seemed reasonable and not especially suspicious. What's maybe more significant is that Cantrip is/was hardly the low hanging fruit of this game, so going after him would also not be perhaps the typical/easy scum move (hey, like me going after the Lurkers!) And Vez has not abandoned this push/opinion despite multiple opportunities to do so.
He's also been pushing for people to post more and to move the game forward. He's been very active. I can't fault him too much for voting for GF just to try and get a lynch. He's made it clear GF isn't his first choice, so there's nothing sneaky or underhanded going on there.
The move to Terry is a little weaker, in as much as Vez hasn't had much at all to say about Terry all game. But again it reads to me more like, "these are our choices to lynch between, GF or Terry, and between those I'm choosing Terry, even though neither is my first choice" which is a fair position to take.
Really, there's nothing here for anyone to get suspicious of, and a lot of +Town to me.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Looks like people currently not voting Grape or Terry are:
Terry
Bur
Axelrod
g_d
Dan has not voted anyone at all this game. Bur has been AWOL. Terry is doing something with vezok. Axelrod, what's your reason?
Uh, because I'm not especially feeling either of them? Gun to my head I'd probably vote Terry over GF. But I do not feel a gun to my head about this.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@Axelrod: I'm a little confused as to why Rezombied, who has made multiple posts but hasn't made an impression on you, ranks higher than GanDan, who has made several posts with reads, analysis, and original thought (even if his questions outweigh those reads/analysis/etc) (AND he has a valid reason to lurk). (As an aside, no matter how you intended the "kind of ditto" after my entry in your list, I choose to interpret it as you comparing my play to Azreal, which I 100% take as a high compliment and will treasure always...unless of course you're just scumbuttering me up.)
You can take it as a complement, that's how it's intended. I don't see why you would make a big deal about Dan vs. Rezombied though. There's not a lot to choose from there, and your phrasing here seems just a tad slanted. Like, you are trying to suggest I'm somehow being dishonest? How could I possibly have Rezombied here and Dan there! Dude, it's a list of current general feelings.
I'm not terribly impressed with your list, although it's a little bit spicy to put Az high and Iso low, imo. We have two competing wagons right now, and one of them is in your "no opinion to concerning" pile, but you eschew that option to go after lurkers. With the obligatory rationale of "I hate lurkers."
I'm pretty sure I've never put up one of these "rough impression" lists without getting immediate blowback from people saying "ugg, that list is terrible! That reasoning (the reasoning I'm not even trying to defend) sucks! Vote Axelrod!" So, gee, thanks for keeping the tradition alive.
I really wish this had come about 24 hours earlier, as I suddenly really want to CFD onto you, but I don't feel like we have time for that. Working on rereading Terry as we speak.
Well, that would have certainly been interesting to see.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Ok, I just read back to Pirates, where I was lynched Day 3 as town and it looked almost identical to how I behaved today. Az is either misremembering or full of BS. Yes I know self meta is worthless so I encourage anyone to actually read it and not just take Az’s word on anything he says.
Looks like people currently not voting Grape or Terry are:
Terry
Bur
Axelrod
g_d
Dan has not voted anyone at all this game. Bur has been AWOL. Terry is doing something with vezok. Axelrod, what's your reason?
Uh, because I'm not especially feeling either of them? Gun to my head I'd probably vote Terry over GF. But I do not feel a gun to my head about this.
NL in ~9 hours isn't a gun to your head?
Not really.
Time was I would totally choose a No Lynch over lynching someone I thought was Town. I'm not sure I've got that strong a feeling here about either of these people, but I'm not feeling pressed to vote yet either.
This is, incidentally, probably wrong, which I can acknowledge. I'm getting more and more gunshy in my old age about voting for people when I'm just not sure. The "correct" approach is probably to be way more aggressive about voting. I just can't seem to make myself do it. At least not on D1. I tend to get more confident about things the deeper we go.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Ok, I just read back to Pirates, where I was lynched Day 3 as town and it looked almost identical to how I behaved today. Az is either misremembering or full of BS. Yes I know self meta is worthless so I encourage anyone to actually read it and not just take Az’s word on anything he says.
The difference there was that you were lynched day 3 not day 1.
To be fair, I don't really want to lynch you, but I need a body in the grave. You have done nothing remotely townie this game so I don't really want to keep you alive.
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Ok, I just read back to Pirates, where I was lynched Day 3 as town and it looked almost identical to how I behaved today. Az is either misremembering or full of BS. Yes I know self meta is worthless so I encourage anyone to actually read it and not just take Az’s word on anything he says.
The difference there was that you were lynched day 3 not day 1.
To be fair, I don't really want to lynch you, but I need a body in the grave. You have done nothing remotely townie this game so I don't really want to keep you alive.
This is hilarious. I’ve done more than most of the players here. Yourself included. Should I just hang back and sheep vote too?
Ok, I just read back to Pirates, where I was lynched Day 3 as town and it looked almost identical to how I behaved today. Az is either misremembering or full of BS. Yes I know self meta is worthless so I encourage anyone to actually read it and not just take Az’s word on anything he says.
The difference there was that you were lynched day 3 not day 1.
To be fair, I don't really want to lynch you, but I need a body in the grave. You have done nothing remotely townie this game so I don't really want to keep you alive.
. Also, does anyone else like the backdoor vezo has left himself for when i flip town?
@Terry: On a scale of 1-10, with 1 being RVS and 10 being "got a cop check can't vote this guy hard enough", how serious was your vote on Kami in 38?
118 has a lot of confidence, but as I said before, confidence is NAI for Terry, just comes with the territory. Slight scum ping for justification of his RVS vote. I agreed with his suspicions of Rez, but didn't think the suspicion on Kami was justified. I originally liked the first line of 121, but going back and reading page 2, it feels like Terry is really stretching to connect the idea that Grape wants Terry to become invested in the game from Grape's posts. However, his confusion about Grape in 161 felt genuine. I'm not sure what to make of his mixing Grape and Highroller (I think) up in 168.
Huh. Tinfoil time. I was pretty confused by Highroller's 175 where he calls Terry a troll and loose cannon, because I was seeing a lot of calm, rational posting from Terry. It really struck me as odd. But then Terry comes in with his 178 and is sorta crazy and out of control and yelling and stuff. Possibility that the two of them are buddies and Highroller specifically posted that to "rile" Terry up? Stil not sure where Highroller saw the trolling/loose cannon. /tinfoil
@Highroller: What specifically did you see as trolling/loose cannoning from Terry prior to 175?
I don't like the mechanics discussion at the start of 209. Feels like bad setup gaming. I generally like the rest of the post, with quite a bit of mindmeld on his take on page 1 events. Also feels like town who didn't get people rereading like he asked, so he decided to spell things out. Not sure that scum!Terry feels the need to do that. I feel less good about his summary of page 2 in 226, mostly because I think he's way off-base with regard to Highroller.
After that there's a long string of snarky and/or mostly contentless posts. 359 was a handwave of Az's case. While I don't think Az's case was very persuasive, I do think there were some valid perspectives there, and I don't think Terry addressed any of them. I feel like the indignation in 380 is real, but indignation over sheeped votes doesn't necessarily come from town.
There are then...quite a lot of bicker posts that don't add a lot to the conversation. I don't like the passive aggressive attack on Grape in 389, but I don't feel like that's AI for Terry. I don't like his lack of good reasoning to vote Grape (393), then he questions some of the unvote responses to Grape's claim, and then 422 feels like a town post. I think Terry really believes this and is frustrated by the idea that a claim that sounds believable gets a pass.
I like 424, although I guess it could come from scum, but I don't like the snarky attitude in 427. The use of the word "entertain" feels off. After that, a lot of the intentional trolling/references to trolling feel like frustrated town rather than angry scum.
I'm pretty much out of time. I feel like Terry has a mix of good and bad posts with a LOT of filler posts that don't really accomplish much. That said, I still feel like Grape's more likely to be scum. I know it'll look bad for me if Grape flips town and Terry flips scum, but...I just really FEEL like Grape is scum and Terry's town. I'm leaving my vote on Grape.
I believe deadline is in about 2.5 hours, and I very likely will not be on at that time. I will be able to check periodically for about the next hour, so if anyone wants to ask me questions or engage, do so soon. Bare minimum, please do not let a no lynch occur. I would very much like to go into D2 with a lynch to facilitate analysis.
@Grape: Can you address my question about your 352? I'll repost it for easy reference:
Can you speak to your 352? Do you think Rez and Terry are buddies? If not, how does your mindset in that post make sense?
I don't have a strong aligned or unaligned read on them. My realization was that I was scum reading both for similar things and Terry had become even more aggressive in avoiding engaging in depth (and continues to do so, see his reply to Az here).
And on asking Highroller about why he made his choice, I feel like there was opportunity to do so before you came under significant scrutiny and certainly before you got to claim range, but I don't see any movement from you to do so. You say you didn't even think about it...that surprises me if you're town, as I think you're a good player, and when presented with a tool, town generally tend to start thinking how best to use that tool. I mean, I geeked out a little about my card, too, but then I started figuring out ways to maximize its effectiveness.
Once there are more datapoints I'll start looking at his motivation but trying to figure out if his choices mean anything when I only know two cards doesn't seem that helpful. And his reasoning is less interesting to me than comparing his choice to flips. If he is scum the choice would come down to wine (does he choose his own or his teammates) and none of that requires me to have a knowledge of the player I chose.
@Terry why did you vote me if you think Vez slipped that I'm town?
I'm not sure where people are getting that vezok definitely reads as town. If Grape turns up mafia, vezok would be the first person I'd be suspicious of tomorrow.
Axel has hinted he would vote Terry over me. Dan and Bur are MIA. Even with that Axel vote, Terry can't get lynched without lurkers showing (and given it's the middle of the night for Bur I think we can cross him off) or people defecting from my wagon...
Not ideal. KA has expressed a willingness to kill me and I fully expect most on my wagon would kill me over no lynching.
@Vezok: Even if you think I'm scum, it's bad form to ignore me completely. Engage, please.
I'm not ingoring you. Sorry if I missed anything from you.
vote grapefruit
I just want a lynch right now and I will figure things out later. I have some suspicions avout the scum team, but I gotta see a flip before I decide on things. Terry is not happening even though I think that is the superior lynch.
Also I don't even understand what scumslip is trying to accuse me of. I'd be grateful to anyone who can explain.
I will be here at deadline although I can't promise much as I'm really drunk.
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Grape, why was it that you felt you should leave it up to Highroller whether your various mode options were revealed, when you were half-thinking you might be dead anyways? What's the point of keeping that info secret or sensitive, at the point you were being pushed to the very edge of a lynch? Weren't you at the point where you put all your cards on the table anyways?
And what's stopping you from doing that now, also?
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I'm not sure where people are getting that vezok definitely reads as town. If Grape turns up mafia, vezok would be the first person I'd be suspicious of tomorrow.
@Highroller: What specifically did you see as trolling/loose cannoning from Terry prior to 175?
*Blink* You're kidding, right?
Umm no. There was nothing that could be considered me being a troll and a losose cannon prior to you calling me that. Frankly, I’m not a troll and was pretty pissed at you for calling me that, so don’t just wave your hands and hope this goes away. Answer the question.
And I guess I'm putting my money where my mouth is and
Vote: TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
I don't think this is ideal. All I'm really feeling is that Terry is more likely to be scum than GF. But I'm not in love with the odds on either. At the same time I don't feel strongly enough on either to push for a No Lynch.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Lurker lynches are totally fine. If one has reason to believe the player is actively avoiding posting, which in the case of Bur at least we do. Picking up his prod and then peace-outting again was horrific.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I will say I think the odds of both of them being scum are pretty low though, just because that would mean that 2 out of 3 mafia happened to be the lurkiest people in the game. Man I would be pretty upset if I was that 3rd Mafia then. And it's probably just not the case.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
This case is for tomorrow, not today, because we don't have sufficient time to switch over by the looks of it to pretty much anybody. Prepare for eye-bleed.
Quote from RSJT »
Ok. I encourage everyone to go back and read page 1. In my current state, I’ve seen it very clearly. Vezo was right to put rezom in check. Rezom was way off and was really pushing vezo for some skewed stuff. Then kami votes vezo for being too defensive. I voted kami as just a knee jerk reaction but going back on it, I like it even more. I’m think kami and rezom are buddies.
When I read this post, I feel like I just walked onto a car lot, the salesman walked up to me, smoothed back his greasy hair with some extra gel, and started pitching me a car from the 80s with the floor halfway rusted, because it's such a classic model and just needs a little love.
The way that RSJT uses adjectives here, and elsewhere throughout his posts, is very pushy. He's inclined to use language that is designed to demand attention, and control his audience into seeing things the same way that he sees them. Coupled with that, is some very superficial analysis and strained reasoning. I don't believe for a moment the kind of interaction he described between Rez and Kami is even worth seriously noting as "helping buddy" interaction, bc nobody, NOBODY would care about intervening on behalf of a buddy for a RVS stage prod of that nature, let alone getting excited and using hyperbole to show the rest of the class this cool thing you found.
This is the kind of thing scum say to plant misinformation off of a superficially plausible sounding narrative, where there's really nothing to it at all except hot air and the chance to point a finger at someone.
Quote from RSJT »
Ok. Page 2 is done. I know what Grape is doing. He’s town and I’m really happy about it. He’s wanting me to get invested because I’m so awesome. Scum Grape doesn’t want that.
I also really like how vezo is playing this game. It doesn’t feel like scum vezo.
I don’t like how high roller is coming across. Seems controlling and a bit hand flashy. Like waving his hands around saying look at me, I’m doing stuff! But I’m not feeling the sincerity.
Is it just Rezom, kami and high roller. Ok spectators and archivalists of greatness. There you have it.
...check out that first sentence read. So much for that, when Terry came under pressure and Grape was the alternative.
And highroller is such an easy target of convenience at that stage of the game. He's loud, he's flashy, he's pushing an argument that a lot of the town disagrees with. Natural target of opportunity, but a very poor quality target for someone who's not just playing whack-a-mole, but is interested in actual coherent narratives for what someone's scum mentality is. Why on earth would highroller as scum do what he did? Most players won't clear him, he gets a lot of negative attention, he burns credibility, maybe gives people ammunition to get him lynched later on. Is Terry thinking that through? No, he's just trying to throw out another bad bait-hook for the town to bite on to generate a mislynch.
Quote from RSJT »
WTF!? How am I trolling or a loose canon!? This is a massive shade tree here. I actually wanted to address his post before this too, but this one blew me away.
So I'm town or scum... Genius!
BUT IF I AM TOWN... you're suggesting that I'm a massive troll or loose cannon!? Where does this even come from? Just a few posts ago, Cantrip put me on top of his T/S because of the exact opposite of what you're saying.
EVEN IF I WAS A MASSIVE TOWN TROLL CANNON... what do you suggest we do about, you want to Lynch me? EVEN THOUGH I'M TOWN!?
It's weird that you feel this way about me considering my stance on you and your opinion differs pretty drastically from other people's.
Ok, now on to your other post (#173)... why do you care so much about Dan's role? Five bucks says you have a scum role that is dependent on other player's subtype.
My biggest problem with this is the final sentence. Again, terry is throwing out these barbs that are just pure speculative trash with zero thought behind them. There are so many other alternatives for why HR posted what he did than "scum who cares about sub-types!"
Quote from RSJT »
Page 1:
Ok, post #19 Highroller claims Goblin Recruiter, he claims it really hard. Like over-emphasizing the fact that he is a CREATURE. Also, I find it interesting that the card itself doesn't actually put anything in the graveyard, it puts cards on top of your deck, but his ability puts cards in the graveyard.
The very next post Grape comes in and says we shouldn't be claiming because his role cares about card types, which seems like a pro-town chime in to me. Vezo, says that it doesn't help him and in post #25, Rezom breaks the RVS seal and votes Vezo for that very comment. Like, it's a really bad vote. Super forced. Bur votes him for it, and Vezo replies pretty reasonably I thought (#28). Cantrip also vote Rezom shortly after. Now even though Rezom earned a couple votes for it, Rezom still tries to justify it and again acts like Grape's comment to keep it in our pants is the rule of the lord. It's insanely bad by Rezom, but somehow, Kami comes in and counters with a vote on Vezo (#35) for being too defensive. It's a really weird side to take in all of this... almost like it's forced. Axel calls him on it, but Rezom's next post is even more out of this world (#37). He starts off talking like Vezo was trying to force claims out of people. Then he quotes veto saying that he would behave this way as either alignment and Rezom transforms that into saying that vezo was saying that he does it every game. This whole post is just a mess. Then I vote Kami because his vote on Vezo stunk like BS. Then Kami, throws some shade on Axel for calling him out on it. Then GD for doing the same thing. A couple players like M005 (#46) and Grape (#50) don't seem to get Bur's vote on Rezom like I do. Grape's post is a bit more interesting. He questions Kami's vote on Vezo and he questions me for my vote on Kami. Both seemed pretty obvious reasons to vote to me, so I'm not sure how to take this. I think maybe grape just was skimming and didn't really follow the flow. I do kind of worry that he was just skimming to make weak scum cases while not really trying to solve.
Ok, so that's how I read Day 1. I'll work on a Day 2 recap later tonight or tomorrow.
Again, he's looking at completely innocent behaviors to try to force this narrative of coupling Kami and Rez together. And he oversells it, repeatedly, in his language. "Really bad vote". "Super forced" "Insanely bad.". "Really weird side to take". "Almost like it's forced." "Whole post is just a mess." "His vote on Vezo stunk like BS."
There's a saying that when a lawyer has the facts, he should argue the facts, and when he has the law, he should argue the law, and when he has neither, pound on the podium really loudly.
The latter of those is the perfect way to describe the mentality that many mafia players fall into when they roll scum. They don't have convictions in their reads. They know their cases won't be justified. So they make weak, logically tenuous arguments against targets of opportunity, and then they exaggerate the hell out of them with their language to cover up their insecurities in a vain attempt to sell the town on it.
Townies don't usually fall into that mentality, because they believe in their cases. And players who believe in their cases, feel like they can rely on the facts. Not pounding on the podium and using hyperbole in every other word to make some innocent, nitpicky thing feel like a capital offense.
Quote from RSJT »
PAGE 2:
I'm liking Cantrips post (#51), his thoughts seem similar to mine and organic. Vezo, then admits to being defensive, but for the right reasons (to stir things up) and I think he was right to be defensive against rezom. There are a few interactions between Grape and Vezo and Cantrip, but all seem pretty standard. So this when Highroller rolls in on the topic for the first time (#60) and really just spends the post promoting random lynching and claiming Day 1, both subjects I disagree with him on and seem to make the game less fun. Grape then seems to agree with Highroller about claiming early, and then naked votes me (#61). Kami then professes his love for Highroller. Bur comes in with a good explanation of his vote on Rezom. However Highroller keeps pushing this Day 1 claim and is really saying he wants a Day 1 mass claim (#69). This seems insanely wrong to me, like scummily wrong. He's trying to convince us that the only advantage town has is in numbers which is BS, this is a role madness, everyone has a role and we benefit from keeping those cards close to our chest UNTIL it nets us a scum Lynch! When I am scum, I pray for the Day 1 massclaim because TOWN is obligated to be truthful while SCUM can say whatever they want. So now scum holds literally ALL the information, not just who's on their team. They can plan accordingly how to kill and block and redirect and lie and cheat and steal. Town doesn't have that ability to coordinate an attack. So the fact that this mass claim is really being pushed by Highroller makes me really offset by him. It also turns out a bulk of our discussion at this point shifts from actual behavioral talk to hypothetical mechanical theory, which isn't really helpful.
The next significant shift I see on this page is when Highroller starts attacking Vezo (#79). He really makes it seem like Vez is advocating for a mass claim, which strangely plays into how Rezom was pushing Vez for ignoring Grapefruit's sage advice of not claiming. However, I have not once this game seen Vez advocate for a mass claim. He may have admitted to doing it in the past, but that's very different then pushing for a mass claim. All Vez really says this game is that he's fine with people claiming when they want to claim, which is very different than the angle that Highroller has taken this game. So I find this post by Highroller pretty misrepresentative of what Vez is saying. In the next part of this post he defends Rezom by pointing out that the votes on him had no reason behind them, but to someone truly reading the game and trying to solve it, the reason for the votes on Rezom were pretty obvious.
(@Highroller #79: Cantrip was bread crumbing)
The last part of that post talks about the difference between normals and seminormals and this game. This is a role madness game, it's not hard to figure out why a mass claim would be less useful because of the limitless possibilities of rolls that can exist. It's just more shade wrapped up by another call for mass claiming.
Moos5 has some worthless posts and votes Bur for asking how ISO could be serious about the Highroller/me connection. I'm going to keep an eye on that slot.
Then Highroller posts another wall about the pros of mass claiming (#90). It's just a lot more of the same as post #79, but he caps it off with a vote on Vezo, saying "Seriously, this whole suspicion train against rezombied needs to be thoroughly scrutinized.". This is just mind boggling to me. I see no other reason for this other than power wolfing a defense for his buddy Rezom. Then Highroller starts pushing Grapefruit for being anti-claim, it just seems like he's voting everyone disagreeing with him or voting Rezom (#94).
Again, pushing harder against HR as prime target of opportunity. Doing one of those things that townies should never do, and most are smart enough not to do - arguing that someone is supposedly *so wrong*, that they are scummy. Gentlemen, convincing townies to lynch people who are wrong, instead of people who are scummy, is one of the very oldest and simplest traps the mafia love to set for the town of all time. This is a prime example of it.
And all three of Terry's scum reads are arrived at not from looking at anything that is a genuine tell worth noting, but from completely innocent behaviors, utterly divorced from any coherent scum narrative, that he picks out and then exaggerates and extrapolates the hell out of the root incident to build something out of absolute nothingness.
And then he clings to that set of reads/interactions and worries them like a rabid dog, because as scum he lacks the creativity to expand/adapt on them and organically develop his thought processes. Instead, they stay frozen in time, and he just keeps harkening back to these same points that were never real to begin with.
Quote from RSJT »
Oh boy, looks like az haz it out for me. I’m VLA on weekends. I have work today and tons of time to post tonight and address whatever.
Quote from RSJT »
Hi, I’m sorry I missed your call, but if you leave a message for me with your name, number and reason for your call, I’ll get back to you as soon as possible. Thanks!
Obligatory scum-posts trying to demonstrate non-chalance and bravado in response to pressure, so he doesn't appear to be scared about being caught out this early in the game. Not terribly convincing, and also not funny. He's just acting a part he feels he needs to play, but not engaging meaningfully or in a way that shows town conviction or town mentality.
Quote from RSJT »
Give it up Az. I’m not scum. Move along.
*level look* This is how you respond to an adversary you want off your back, not to someone you think of as a misguided teammate. And you can see the annoyance creep through in the subtext. He doesn't like that I'm doing this to him - and that true subtext peeking out runs directly counter to that attitude of non-chalance he was trying to play up in his last two posts. So you can see the artifice poking through - the bravado he was trying to represent to the thread, are not the true feelings he has about what's happening. The true feeling is frustration and a desire to get me off his back, and to get others to dismiss my case.
Quote from RSJT »
Can any one explain why I'm being voted right now?
VOTE: Rezombified
Seriously unvote me now.
Caught for wrong reasons anger.
Quote from RSJT »
So Az is voting me for being limp-waisted in Part A and trying to sell my view with exaggerated adjectives.
THIS CASE IS INSANELY BAD, REALLY WEIRD AND FULL OF GARBAGE.
Get off me Az. Also get off me sheep. I'm not going to be a deadline Lynch over obvious scum like Rezom.
Yeah...so remember that non-chalance he was fronting earlier? Anyone really think that was legit, after reading this post?
He is NOT happy about being hit early, and with a case that was substantially less detailed than an eye-bleed wall, but that's still gaining a little bit of traction on him.
Quote from RSJT »
Yeah, I am. We have a whole day. Stop fear mongering. You'd love to get rid of me today wouldn't you?
Quote from RSJT »
Like, Rezombified is on a whole another level than me (not in a good way), why are you picking me to vote instead of Rezom? Because I have one more worthless sheep vote on me or is it because LIKE I'VE BEEN SAYING ALL DAY that you are buddies with Rezombified?
1. Tilt. 2. Tilt is disproportionate to actual number of votes and pressure on him, due to realization that he's outed and will eventually die. This is the kind of tilt or over-defensiveness that actually does indicate scum. Most times people throw out that adjective of someone being over-defensive, and think that it applies to anytime that a player gets feisty or emotional in response to a case. But this - this is the time that thing, is actually a thing.
Quote from RSJT »
Also confirable role
Hate this. Claiming a confirmable role is worthless. It's an attempt to part-claim enough to get people off his back, before additional pressure builds. A townie has much less motivation to throw this out there to nip pressure in the bud before it gets too high, because a townie can use misplaced pressure to counter-attack scum who join their wagon, and don't want to signal that they're a power role of some type.
But Terry? He has no problem at all throwing out to the whole world that he's a power role, even though the tiny morsel of information that he claimed does nothing to actually prove that he's townie, just that he can prove to have some kind of role.
Now, this is even more damning when you take into account Terry's absolutely accurate theory-craft posts about how forcing town players to claim and then backing off is worthless, because you should be concentrating on behavior, and not spitting out excess information to the scum.
But here, Terry does that exact thing - he spits out valuable information far too early in the lynch process, in a bid to get the town to rely on it to back off. He's banking on the town doing what he considers to be awful play, and he's doing it without any fear of the NK hitting him as a result - even though his theory crafting post correctly identifies the terrible danger that this kind of premature info release presents to town power roles.
But this game, Terry doesn't care about premature information release when it comes to himself. Because he knows he doesn't have to worry about the NK coming after him.
Running out of time in the day to continue this post further, and I want to make sure this gets out before the night. But people, this is about as plain as it possibly gets in the game of mafia.
As the cards finally settle on Grapefruit21 for the lynch, Grapefruit holds up his hands.
"WAIT!" he yells. He picks up four cards from the deck, and passes them to KamikazeArchon.
"Please choose two of these, and give me the other two to put into my hand. Also, kill HIM, he's lurking!", Grape yells, pointing at Bur.
Kami looks down at the cards, then back at Grape, then back down at the cards again.
The camera flashes in to Kami's face as his eyes narrow. With a quick flick of the wrists, he sends the cards flying at Grapefruit, making a sickening squishing sound as they thud into his lifeless body.
Grapefruit's body falls wordlessly off the table, but not before a piece of cardboard falls from his pockets - it's one of the corners of the shredded black lotus!
The ultimate toolbox and one of the few reasons why Wuffles liked Kamigawa block so much, you do very, VERY silly things in singleton formats. Your ass got banned quicker than a pervert in a nudist colony from the commander format and now you’re out for revenge.
Mafiakill (Communal Mafia Action, Night, Killing, Unlimited) – At night, target a player. You kill that player. This ability may be used in addition to other night actions you may have access to. Only one mafiakill action may be submitted each night unless other.wise specified.
Mafia Daychat – You may communicate with your buddies at any point in this thread and this thread only. [snip]
Fact and Friction (one-shot, compulsory, pregame) – When you receive this role PM, choose a non-mafioso player in the game. That player will be sent the following PM:
Greetings, friend!
You have been selected by my ability. Please choose two of the following!
Instant/Sorcery
Land
Artifact/Enchantment
Creature
Thanks,
A player in “Banned Mafia”
The two choices that the player makes will represent the two types that your roleblock will instead become a rolecop against. (You can still nightkill them either way, though!)
Roleblock/Rolecop (Night, unlimited) – Each night, you may target a player. If that player does not have any of the card types that were selected by your first ability’s target, you roleblock that player, cancelling any night abilities that they may try to use that night. If they have at least one of the card types that were selected by your first ability’s target, you instead rolecop them, learning the basic role abilities of that player. You do not learn about any quest abilities that player may have.
You win when the Mafia controls the vote.
The Mafia team consists of snip, snip, and Grapefruit21 (Gifts Ungiven).
Night 1 has now BEGUN. You have 72 hours to get night actions in. The game will start sooner if everyone gets their actions in swiftly enough.
God. So much wrong with that pile Az. I’m phone posting headed into the weekend. I guess I’ll have to butt heads with you more tomorrow.
PS
Here’s a glimpse of how just bad your push on me is besides the first point that I couldn’t even finish the post before responding to:
Az, this game is role madness, we are all power rolls but you act like me implying I have a power role is some sin, then go onto accuse me of not beinng concerned about early information release because I’m not afraid of getting night killed!? Don’t you see the problem with that!? It’s just like your horrible contridictory point about my adjective use while crafting a detailed fantasy of me being a used car salesmen.
As you all wake up, after a nice, relaxing sleep, having already bought one of the cards to justice, you wake up to a hoarse screaming sound coming from our beloved MaRo.
"WHO...WHA...OH GOD...IT HAPPENED AGAIN...WHAT DID I DO TO DESERVE THIS!!!!" the game designer cried, locking himself back in the harry potter room under the stairs.
Lying in a pool of ink is Bur. As you rush up to save him, he coughs up a piece of cardboard and then dies, gurgling in his own ink. Examining the piece of cardboard, you see that it is another of the corners of the Black Lotus! Another culprit has been bought to justice.
Bur was Karakas, Mafia Redirector.
Karakas – Mafia one-shot self-redirector Legendary Land
For such an innocuous-looking land, you sure are insanely broken in Commander. You take problematic generals like Thraximundar or Rith the awakener and confine them to a life of eternal bouncy-castles. Once you finish f***ing up this game for everyone else, maybe you’ll build yourself a castle. As soon as you murder the ***** out of that little artifact prick that that almost ripped your throat out with his sharp, pointy little teefs the other day.
Mafiakill (Communal Mafia Action, Night, Killing, Unlimited) – At night, target a player. You kill that player. This ability may be used in addition to other night actions you may have access to. Only one mafiakill action may be submitted each night unless otherwise specified.
Daychat – You may communicate with your buddies at any point in this thread and this thread only. Snip
Self-redirect (One-shot, passive) – At the start of the game, select a player. The first time you are targeted by a non-killing ability this game, that ability is “bounced” and redirected to the chosen player instead, after which you lose this ability. You will be told if you were targeted, but not by who, and the redirected ability’s owner will know who they were redirected to, but not who or what redirected them. If that player dies before your ability resolves, you may choose a second player to target.
Quest:Snip
You win when the Mafia controls the vote.
The Mafia team consists of snip, Bur (Karakas) and Grapefruit21 (Gifts Ungiven).
Bur is joined in the graveyard by Cantripmancer, who has been torn apart by a powerful force.
Cantripmancer was Tolarian Academy, Townie Mana Producer.
Tolarian Academy – Townie Mana Producer Legendary Land
You tap for blue, which as everyone knows is the most broken ability in the game. But, Mark Rosewater reasoned, "why not make a land that, in a standard environment with hyper-efficient artifact mana producers like grim monolith and lotus petal, that produces MORE blue mana for EVERY ARTIFACT."
I mean, Maro's right. You're not overpowered at all. I mean, you'd have decent role abilities if you were, say, the most insane legendary land ever printed, right?
Power (night, unlimited) - At night, target a player. You add one blue mana to their mana pool. They will be notified of this.
Quest:Snip
You win with the town, when all mafia have been eliminated.
With that, the remaining cards, shaken by the loss of so many land cards, begin to squabble anew.
The Graveyard (4) Mons' Goblin Raiders, Townie Goblin, corpse discovered Day 1, body dug up and devoured Night 1. Grapefruit21, Gifts Ungiven, Mafia Roleblocker, lynched Day 1 Bur, Karakas, Mafia Redirector, killed Night 1 Cantripmancer, Tolarian Academy, Townie Mana Producer killed Night 1 Mons' Goblin Raiders, Townie Goblin, corpse discovered Day 2
Alright, who ate my goblin? Just rude.
So wait, why Cantripmancer? Was it to try to clear Bur for the bandwagon on rezombied? Odd choice.
Anyway, I think this one's a no-brainer. Vote vezokpiraka.
One scum left. I mean, fun and games aside, I have a sneaking suspicion we probably would just win with a mass claim at this point (can hear Highroller's eyes rolling already through my computer). The fact the Mafia can kill and do a thing in the same night means no one gets "cleared" by proving he took some other action that wasn't killing, but the numbers here - 8-1 - are lopsided enough that a lone scum is probably too pinched to survive it.
Maybe that's not fun though, I realize.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
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I liked his initial reaction to Highroller's claim.
Not the part where he says he doesn't know what to make of HR's claim - that's blank - the other part. The part where he claims a teeny-tiny part of his role, or rather, disclaims something as being his role. He's volunteering that his role has nothing to do with the Goblin that HR is putting in the graveyard each day. It's a small thing, and it might not even be correct from a gameplay standpoint for him to be revealing anything about his role, but it's a very spontaneous, town-feeling reaction.
Rezombied had a bizarre reaction to it and voted him (because GF had opined that we shouldn't reveal anything about our cards/roles, and Vez was going against that). Vez correctly pointed out that this was stupid (in so many words). That whole exchange is just + for Vez because Rezombied was making no sense.
I like when GF accuses Vez of "commenting for commenting's sake" (as though that were a scummy thing) and Vez responds with: That's a Town response.
Someone (Highroller?) accused him of contradicting himself because he seemed to approve of Highroller's claim, and said that a mass claim later in the game might be beneficial but also said in general he was opposed to mass claiming early in this game (at least on D1). With the caveat that if some player in particular felt like they ought to claim for whatever reason, then it might be correct for them to do so depending on their role. There is nothing wrong with this position. I thought Vez explained himself well. He then proceeded to Town-read Highroller for his convictions, despite the fact that Highroller was attacking him, which is not your typical scum move.
He voted Cantrip, and to be fair here, I haven't reviewed any arguments against Cantrip yet. What I have remembered about his postings is that most of them have seemed reasonable and not especially suspicious. What's maybe more significant is that Cantrip is/was hardly the low hanging fruit of this game, so going after him would also not be perhaps the typical/easy scum move (hey, like me going after the Lurkers!) And Vez has not abandoned this push/opinion despite multiple opportunities to do so.
He's also been pushing for people to post more and to move the game forward. He's been very active. I can't fault him too much for voting for GF just to try and get a lynch. He's made it clear GF isn't his first choice, so there's nothing sneaky or underhanded going on there.
The move to Terry is a little weaker, in as much as Vez hasn't had much at all to say about Terry all game. But again it reads to me more like, "these are our choices to lynch between, GF or Terry, and between those I'm choosing Terry, even though neither is my first choice" which is a fair position to take.
Really, there's nothing here for anyone to get suspicious of, and a lot of +Town to me.
You can take it as a complement, that's how it's intended. I don't see why you would make a big deal about Dan vs. Rezombied though. There's not a lot to choose from there, and your phrasing here seems just a tad slanted. Like, you are trying to suggest I'm somehow being dishonest? How could I possibly have Rezombied here and Dan there! Dude, it's a list of current general feelings.
I'm pretty sure I've never put up one of these "rough impression" lists without getting immediate blowback from people saying "ugg, that list is terrible! That reasoning (the reasoning I'm not even trying to defend) sucks! Vote Axelrod!" So, gee, thanks for keeping the tradition alive.
Well, that would have certainly been interesting to see.
Time was I would totally choose a No Lynch over lynching someone I thought was Town. I'm not sure I've got that strong a feeling here about either of these people, but I'm not feeling pressed to vote yet either.
This is, incidentally, probably wrong, which I can acknowledge. I'm getting more and more gunshy in my old age about voting for people when I'm just not sure. The "correct" approach is probably to be way more aggressive about voting. I just can't seem to make myself do it. At least not on D1. I tend to get more confident about things the deeper we go.
The difference there was that you were lynched day 3 not day 1.
To be fair, I don't really want to lynch you, but I need a body in the grave. You have done nothing remotely townie this game so I don't really want to keep you alive.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
Votecount incoming shortly.
@Terry: On a scale of 1-10, with 1 being RVS and 10 being "got a cop check can't vote this guy hard enough", how serious was your vote on Kami in 38?
118 has a lot of confidence, but as I said before, confidence is NAI for Terry, just comes with the territory. Slight scum ping for justification of his RVS vote. I agreed with his suspicions of Rez, but didn't think the suspicion on Kami was justified. I originally liked the first line of 121, but going back and reading page 2, it feels like Terry is really stretching to connect the idea that Grape wants Terry to become invested in the game from Grape's posts. However, his confusion about Grape in 161 felt genuine. I'm not sure what to make of his mixing Grape and Highroller (I think) up in 168.
Huh. Tinfoil time. I was pretty confused by Highroller's 175 where he calls Terry a troll and loose cannon, because I was seeing a lot of calm, rational posting from Terry. It really struck me as odd. But then Terry comes in with his 178 and is sorta crazy and out of control and yelling and stuff. Possibility that the two of them are buddies and Highroller specifically posted that to "rile" Terry up? Stil not sure where Highroller saw the trolling/loose cannon. /tinfoil
@Highroller: What specifically did you see as trolling/loose cannoning from Terry prior to 175?
I don't like the mechanics discussion at the start of 209. Feels like bad setup gaming. I generally like the rest of the post, with quite a bit of mindmeld on his take on page 1 events. Also feels like town who didn't get people rereading like he asked, so he decided to spell things out. Not sure that scum!Terry feels the need to do that. I feel less good about his summary of page 2 in 226, mostly because I think he's way off-base with regard to Highroller.
After that there's a long string of snarky and/or mostly contentless posts. 359 was a handwave of Az's case. While I don't think Az's case was very persuasive, I do think there were some valid perspectives there, and I don't think Terry addressed any of them. I feel like the indignation in 380 is real, but indignation over sheeped votes doesn't necessarily come from town.
There are then...quite a lot of bicker posts that don't add a lot to the conversation. I don't like the passive aggressive attack on Grape in 389, but I don't feel like that's AI for Terry. I don't like his lack of good reasoning to vote Grape (393), then he questions some of the unvote responses to Grape's claim, and then 422 feels like a town post. I think Terry really believes this and is frustrated by the idea that a claim that sounds believable gets a pass.
I like 424, although I guess it could come from scum, but I don't like the snarky attitude in 427. The use of the word "entertain" feels off. After that, a lot of the intentional trolling/references to trolling feel like frustrated town rather than angry scum.
I'm pretty much out of time. I feel like Terry has a mix of good and bad posts with a LOT of filler posts that don't really accomplish much. That said, I still feel like Grape's more likely to be scum. I know it'll look bad for me if Grape flips town and Terry flips scum, but...I just really FEEL like Grape is scum and Terry's town. I'm leaving my vote on Grape.
I believe deadline is in about 2.5 hours, and I very likely will not be on at that time. I will be able to check periodically for about the next hour, so if anyone wants to ask me questions or engage, do so soon. Bare minimum, please do not let a no lynch occur. I would very much like to go into D2 with a lynch to facilitate analysis.
Inside the staircase, Maro pauses for a moment, cocking his head thoughtfully as he listens to the commotion outside.
"Why do they keep talking about goblins...?" he wonders, as tears continue to run silently down his puffy cheeks.
Votecount 1.5
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (4) - Azrael, Grapefruit21, KamikazeArchon, Vezokpiraka
Bur (1) - Axelrod
Grapefruit21 (5) - Iso, Cantripmancer, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry, rezombied, Highroller
rezombied (1) - Bur
Phasing back in (1) - Ganderin_Dan
With 12 alive, it is SEVEN to lynch.
DEADLINE APPROXIMATELY THREE HOURS FROM THIS POST.
VOTE: Grapefruit
Really disappointed with the activity black hole here
I don't have a strong aligned or unaligned read on them. My realization was that I was scum reading both for similar things and Terry had become even more aggressive in avoiding engaging in depth (and continues to do so, see his reply to Az here).
Once there are more datapoints I'll start looking at his motivation but trying to figure out if his choices mean anything when I only know two cards doesn't seem that helpful. And his reasoning is less interesting to me than comparing his choice to flips. If he is scum the choice would come down to wine (does he choose his own or his teammates) and none of that requires me to have a knowledge of the player I chose.
@Terry why did you vote me if you think Vez slipped that I'm town?
*Blink* You're kidding, right?
Axel has hinted he would vote Terry over me. Dan and Bur are MIA. Even with that Axel vote, Terry can't get lynched without lurkers showing (and given it's the middle of the night for Bur I think we can cross him off) or people defecting from my wagon...
Not ideal. KA has expressed a willingness to kill me and I fully expect most on my wagon would kill me over no lynching.
Very not ideal.
Vote: Bur
I'm not ingoring you. Sorry if I missed anything from you.
vote grapefruit
I just want a lynch right now and I will figure things out later. I have some suspicions avout the scum team, but I gotta see a flip before I decide on things. Terry is not happening even though I think that is the superior lynch.
Also I don't even understand what scumslip is trying to accuse me of. I'd be grateful to anyone who can explain.
I will be here at deadline although I can't promise much as I'm really drunk.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
And what's stopping you from doing that now, also?
Vote: TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
I don't think this is ideal. All I'm really feeling is that Terry is more likely to be scum than GF. But I'm not in love with the odds on either. At the same time I don't feel strongly enough on either to push for a No Lynch.
vote grapefruit
Vote: Grapefruit
Have a good weekend!
I will say I think the odds of both of them being scum are pretty low though, just because that would mean that 2 out of 3 mafia happened to be the lurkiest people in the game. Man I would be pretty upset if I was that 3rd Mafia then. And it's probably just not the case.
When I read this post, I feel like I just walked onto a car lot, the salesman walked up to me, smoothed back his greasy hair with some extra gel, and started pitching me a car from the 80s with the floor halfway rusted, because it's such a classic model and just needs a little love.
The way that RSJT uses adjectives here, and elsewhere throughout his posts, is very pushy. He's inclined to use language that is designed to demand attention, and control his audience into seeing things the same way that he sees them. Coupled with that, is some very superficial analysis and strained reasoning. I don't believe for a moment the kind of interaction he described between Rez and Kami is even worth seriously noting as "helping buddy" interaction, bc nobody, NOBODY would care about intervening on behalf of a buddy for a RVS stage prod of that nature, let alone getting excited and using hyperbole to show the rest of the class this cool thing you found.
This is the kind of thing scum say to plant misinformation off of a superficially plausible sounding narrative, where there's really nothing to it at all except hot air and the chance to point a finger at someone.
...check out that first sentence read. So much for that, when Terry came under pressure and Grape was the alternative.
And highroller is such an easy target of convenience at that stage of the game. He's loud, he's flashy, he's pushing an argument that a lot of the town disagrees with. Natural target of opportunity, but a very poor quality target for someone who's not just playing whack-a-mole, but is interested in actual coherent narratives for what someone's scum mentality is. Why on earth would highroller as scum do what he did? Most players won't clear him, he gets a lot of negative attention, he burns credibility, maybe gives people ammunition to get him lynched later on. Is Terry thinking that through? No, he's just trying to throw out another bad bait-hook for the town to bite on to generate a mislynch.
My biggest problem with this is the final sentence. Again, terry is throwing out these barbs that are just pure speculative trash with zero thought behind them. There are so many other alternatives for why HR posted what he did than "scum who cares about sub-types!"
Again, he's looking at completely innocent behaviors to try to force this narrative of coupling Kami and Rez together. And he oversells it, repeatedly, in his language. "Really bad vote". "Super forced" "Insanely bad.". "Really weird side to take". "Almost like it's forced." "Whole post is just a mess." "His vote on Vezo stunk like BS."
There's a saying that when a lawyer has the facts, he should argue the facts, and when he has the law, he should argue the law, and when he has neither, pound on the podium really loudly.
The latter of those is the perfect way to describe the mentality that many mafia players fall into when they roll scum. They don't have convictions in their reads. They know their cases won't be justified. So they make weak, logically tenuous arguments against targets of opportunity, and then they exaggerate the hell out of them with their language to cover up their insecurities in a vain attempt to sell the town on it.
Townies don't usually fall into that mentality, because they believe in their cases. And players who believe in their cases, feel like they can rely on the facts. Not pounding on the podium and using hyperbole in every other word to make some innocent, nitpicky thing feel like a capital offense.
Again, pushing harder against HR as prime target of opportunity. Doing one of those things that townies should never do, and most are smart enough not to do - arguing that someone is supposedly *so wrong*, that they are scummy. Gentlemen, convincing townies to lynch people who are wrong, instead of people who are scummy, is one of the very oldest and simplest traps the mafia love to set for the town of all time. This is a prime example of it.
And all three of Terry's scum reads are arrived at not from looking at anything that is a genuine tell worth noting, but from completely innocent behaviors, utterly divorced from any coherent scum narrative, that he picks out and then exaggerates and extrapolates the hell out of the root incident to build something out of absolute nothingness.
And then he clings to that set of reads/interactions and worries them like a rabid dog, because as scum he lacks the creativity to expand/adapt on them and organically develop his thought processes. Instead, they stay frozen in time, and he just keeps harkening back to these same points that were never real to begin with.
Obligatory scum-posts trying to demonstrate non-chalance and bravado in response to pressure, so he doesn't appear to be scared about being caught out this early in the game. Not terribly convincing, and also not funny. He's just acting a part he feels he needs to play, but not engaging meaningfully or in a way that shows town conviction or town mentality.
*level look* This is how you respond to an adversary you want off your back, not to someone you think of as a misguided teammate. And you can see the annoyance creep through in the subtext. He doesn't like that I'm doing this to him - and that true subtext peeking out runs directly counter to that attitude of non-chalance he was trying to play up in his last two posts. So you can see the artifice poking through - the bravado he was trying to represent to the thread, are not the true feelings he has about what's happening. The true feeling is frustration and a desire to get me off his back, and to get others to dismiss my case.
Caught for wrong reasons anger.
Yeah...so remember that non-chalance he was fronting earlier? Anyone really think that was legit, after reading this post?
He is NOT happy about being hit early, and with a case that was substantially less detailed than an eye-bleed wall, but that's still gaining a little bit of traction on him.
1. Tilt. 2. Tilt is disproportionate to actual number of votes and pressure on him, due to realization that he's outed and will eventually die. This is the kind of tilt or over-defensiveness that actually does indicate scum. Most times people throw out that adjective of someone being over-defensive, and think that it applies to anytime that a player gets feisty or emotional in response to a case. But this - this is the time that thing, is actually a thing.
Hate this. Claiming a confirmable role is worthless. It's an attempt to part-claim enough to get people off his back, before additional pressure builds. A townie has much less motivation to throw this out there to nip pressure in the bud before it gets too high, because a townie can use misplaced pressure to counter-attack scum who join their wagon, and don't want to signal that they're a power role of some type.
But Terry? He has no problem at all throwing out to the whole world that he's a power role, even though the tiny morsel of information that he claimed does nothing to actually prove that he's townie, just that he can prove to have some kind of role.
Now, this is even more damning when you take into account Terry's absolutely accurate theory-craft posts about how forcing town players to claim and then backing off is worthless, because you should be concentrating on behavior, and not spitting out excess information to the scum.
But here, Terry does that exact thing - he spits out valuable information far too early in the lynch process, in a bid to get the town to rely on it to back off. He's banking on the town doing what he considers to be awful play, and he's doing it without any fear of the NK hitting him as a result - even though his theory crafting post correctly identifies the terrible danger that this kind of premature info release presents to town power roles.
But this game, Terry doesn't care about premature information release when it comes to himself. Because he knows he doesn't have to worry about the NK coming after him.
Running out of time in the day to continue this post further, and I want to make sure this gets out before the night. But people, this is about as plain as it possibly gets in the game of mafia.
As the cards finally settle on Grapefruit21 for the lynch, Grapefruit holds up his hands.
"WAIT!" he yells. He picks up four cards from the deck, and passes them to KamikazeArchon.
"Please choose two of these, and give me the other two to put into my hand. Also, kill HIM, he's lurking!", Grape yells, pointing at Bur.
Kami looks down at the cards, then back at Grape, then back down at the cards again.
The camera flashes in to Kami's face as his eyes narrow. With a quick flick of the wrists, he sends the cards flying at Grapefruit, making a sickening squishing sound as they thud into his lifeless body.
Grapefruit's body falls wordlessly off the table, but not before a piece of cardboard falls from his pockets - it's one of the corners of the shredded black lotus!
Grapefruit was Gifts Ungiven - Mafia Roleblocker
Final Day 1 Votecount!
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (2) - Azrael, Axelrod
Bur (1) - Grapefruit21
Grapefruit21 (7) - Iso, Cantripmancer, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry, rezombied, Highroller, vezokpiraka, KamikazeArchon
rezombied (1) - Bur
Shuffling his deck (1) - Ganderin_Dan
Blue Instant
The ultimate toolbox and one of the few reasons why Wuffles liked Kamigawa block so much, you do very, VERY silly things in singleton formats. Your ass got banned quicker than a pervert in a nudist colony from the commander format and now you’re out for revenge.
Mafiakill (Communal Mafia Action, Night, Killing, Unlimited) – At night, target a player. You kill that player. This ability may be used in addition to other night actions you may have access to. Only one mafiakill action may be submitted each night unless other.wise specified.
Mafia Daychat – You may communicate with your buddies at any point in this thread and this thread only. [snip]
Fact and Friction (one-shot, compulsory, pregame) – When you receive this role PM, choose a non-mafioso player in the game. That player will be sent the following PM:
Greetings, friend!
You have been selected by my ability. Please choose two of the following!
Instant/Sorcery
Land
Artifact/Enchantment
Creature
Thanks,
A player in “Banned Mafia”
The two choices that the player makes will represent the two types that your roleblock will instead become a rolecop against. (You can still nightkill them either way, though!)
Roleblock/Rolecop (Night, unlimited) – Each night, you may target a player. If that player does not have any of the card types that were selected by your first ability’s target, you roleblock that player, cancelling any night abilities that they may try to use that night. If they have at least one of the card types that were selected by your first ability’s target, you instead rolecop them, learning the basic role abilities of that player. You do not learn about any quest abilities that player may have.
You win when the Mafia controls the vote.
The Mafia team consists of snip, snip, and Grapefruit21 (Gifts Ungiven).
DO NOT POST IN THIS THREAD UNTIL DAY 2 STARTS.
PS
Here’s a glimpse of how just bad your push on me is besides the first point that I couldn’t even finish the post before responding to:
Az, this game is role madness, we are all power rolls but you act like me implying I have a power role is some sin, then go onto accuse me of not beinng concerned about early information release because I’m not afraid of getting night killed!? Don’t you see the problem with that!? It’s just like your horrible contridictory point about my adjective use while crafting a detailed fantasy of me being a used car salesmen.
See you tomorrow!
As you all wake up, after a nice, relaxing sleep, having already bought one of the cards to justice, you wake up to a hoarse screaming sound coming from our beloved MaRo.
"WHO...WHA...OH GOD...IT HAPPENED AGAIN...WHAT DID I DO TO DESERVE THIS!!!!" the game designer cried, locking himself back in the harry potter room under the stairs.
Lying in a pool of ink is Bur. As you rush up to save him, he coughs up a piece of cardboard and then dies, gurgling in his own ink. Examining the piece of cardboard, you see that it is another of the corners of the Black Lotus! Another culprit has been bought to justice.
Bur was Karakas, Mafia Redirector.
Legendary Land
For such an innocuous-looking land, you sure are insanely broken in Commander. You take problematic generals like Thraximundar or Rith the awakener and confine them to a life of eternal bouncy-castles. Once you finish f***ing up this game for everyone else, maybe you’ll build yourself a castle. As soon as you murder the ***** out of that little artifact prick that that almost ripped your throat out with his sharp, pointy little teefs the other day.
Mafiakill (Communal Mafia Action, Night, Killing, Unlimited) – At night, target a player. You kill that player. This ability may be used in addition to other night actions you may have access to. Only one mafiakill action may be submitted each night unless otherwise specified.
Daychat – You may communicate with your buddies at any point in this thread and this thread only. Snip
Self-redirect (One-shot, passive) – At the start of the game, select a player. The first time you are targeted by a non-killing ability this game, that ability is “bounced” and redirected to the chosen player instead, after which you lose this ability. You will be told if you were targeted, but not by who, and the redirected ability’s owner will know who they were redirected to, but not who or what redirected them. If that player dies before your ability resolves, you may choose a second player to target.
Quest: Snip
You win when the Mafia controls the vote.
The Mafia team consists of snip, Bur (Karakas) and Grapefruit21 (Gifts Ungiven).
Cantripmancer was Tolarian Academy, Townie Mana Producer.
Legendary Land
You tap for blue, which as everyone knows is the most broken ability in the game. But, Mark Rosewater reasoned, "why not make a land that, in a standard environment with hyper-efficient artifact mana producers like grim monolith and lotus petal, that produces MORE blue mana for EVERY ARTIFACT."
I mean, Maro's right. You're not overpowered at all. I mean, you'd have decent role abilities if you were, say, the most insane legendary land ever printed, right?
Power (night, unlimited) - At night, target a player. You add one blue mana to their mana pool. They will be notified of this.
Quest: Snip
You win with the town, when all mafia have been eliminated.
With 9 alive, it is FIVE to lynch.
1. Holy crap, are we seriously only one mafia to go on day 2?!
2. Bringing this to everyone's attention:
Alright, who ate my goblin? Just rude.
So wait, why Cantripmancer? Was it to try to clear Bur for the bandwagon on rezombied? Odd choice.
Anyway, I think this one's a no-brainer. Vote vezokpiraka.
Maybe that's not fun though, I realize.