Bur said he was done with his exams 5 days ago and said he would take the time to be able to catch up. 3 days ago, he said he had not yet been able to catch up. He has since posted two sentences in two posts.
If we're at the point where we're contemplating lynching Bur based upon his lack of posts and general lack of content in his posts, then I think it's safe to say we should start calling for his replacement. Anyone else in favor of this?
Doing some read-throughs, changing how I do my notes, what information I share and when, adding some new rating and classification systems in, doing some meta dossiers. Should be an interesting revamp.
Pursuant to that, reserving posting many of those notes until times of maximal impact. In lieu, I'd say that after reading through Grape, he's moved back a couple spots in my lynch order.
Grape, I'd like to know two things at this juncture.
1. Leading lynch candidate, and why.
2. Describe your feelings were Highroller to be run up as a primary wagon.
Ok, so I'm only five posts into my Terry reread and I immediately wanted to douse him in gasoline and flick a match in his vicinity.
Quote from terry »
I just can’t help but to feel like high roller’s attacks are forced.
Vote: Highroller
Look at this explanation. Look at his word choice here. He "can't help" but "feel" highroller's attacks are forced. That's so limp-wristed, vague, and poorly thought out that I can't stand it.
Quote from terry »
Maybe I like to hurt your eyes
No maybes about it, after that last post.
Quote from terry »
I don't really need to show work here. You can just read this snippet.
Aww, hell naw. Die die die die die.
Quote from terry »
Oh please, I did that pages ago and was called a dead weight troll for it. I think the scum team is Kami, Highroller and Rezom because of how Rezom attacked Vezo for absolute garbage (and was insistent about it) and Kami and Highroller went strangely out of their way to attack Vezo and/or defend Rezom.
Way way way too simple of a world view.
Quote from terry »
PAGE 2:
I'm liking Cantrips post (#51), his thoughts seem similar to mine and organic. Vezo, then admits to being defensive, but for the right reasons (to stir things up) and I think he was right to be defensive against rezom. There are a few interactions between Grape and Vezo and Cantrip, but all seem pretty standard. So this when Highroller rolls in on the topic for the first time (#60) and really just spends the post promoting random lynching and claiming Day 1, both subjects I disagree with him on and seem to make the game less fun. Grape then seems to agree with Highroller about claiming early, and then naked votes me (#61). Kami then professes his love for Highroller. Bur comes in with a good explanation of his vote on Rezom. However Highroller keeps pushing this Day 1 claim and is really saying he wants a Day 1 mass claim (#69). This seems insanely wrong to me, like scummily wrong. He's trying to convince us that the only advantage town has is in numbers which is BS, this is a role madness, everyone has a role and we benefit from keeping those cards close to our chest UNTIL it nets us a scum Lynch! When I am scum, I pray for the Day 1 massclaim because TOWN is obligated to be truthful while SCUM can say whatever they want. So now scum holds literally ALL the information, not just who's on their team. They can plan accordingly how to kill and block and redirect and lie and cheat and steal. Town doesn't have that ability to coordinate an attack. So the fact that this mass claim is really being pushed by Highroller makes me really offset by him. It also turns out a bulk of our discussion at this point shifts from actual behavioral talk to hypothetical mechanical theory, which isn't really helpful.
The next significant shift I see on this page is when Highroller starts attacking Vezo (#79). He really makes it seem like Vez is advocating for a mass claim, which strangely plays into how Rezom was pushing Vez for ignoring Grapefruit's sage advice of not claiming. However, I have not once this game seen Vez advocate for a mass claim. He may have admitted to doing it in the past, but that's very different then pushing for a mass claim. All Vez really says this game is that he's fine with people claiming when they want to claim, which is very different than the angle that Highroller has taken this game. So I find this post by Highroller pretty misrepresentative of what Vez is saying. In the next part of this post he defends Rezom by pointing out that the votes on him had no reason behind them, but to someone truly reading the game and trying to solve it, the reason for the votes on Rezom were pretty obvious.
(@Highroller #79: Cantrip was bread crumbing)
The last part of that post talks about the difference between normals and seminormals and this game. This is a role madness game, it's not hard to figure out why a mass claim would be less useful because of the limitless possibilities of rolls that can exist. It's just more shade wrapped up by another call for mass claiming.
Moos5 has some worthless posts and votes Bur for asking how ISO could be serious about the Highroller/me connection. I'm going to keep an eye on that slot.
Then Highroller posts another wall about the pros of mass claiming (#90). It's just a lot more of the same as post #79, but he caps it off with a vote on Vezo, saying "Seriously, this whole suspicion train against rezombied needs to be thoroughly scrutinized.". This is just mind boggling to me. I see no other reason for this other than power wolfing a defense for his buddy Rezom. Then Highroller starts pushing Grapefruit for being anti-claim, it just seems like he's voting everyone disagreeing with him or voting Rezom (#94).
When he's talking about his reads on townies, I'm inclined to believe him.
But then he explicitly tries to nail highroller not for being scummy, but because he's supposedly "so wrong it's scummy." Gentlemen, this is not how townies make cases. This is how scum excuse bad play to magick up mislynches, by framing others' play as poor.
See also post above, where Kami is scum for "strangely" defending Rez too hard, and Rez's case is bad. These cases are not focused on finding scum, they're focused on making us believe that the weird people should be picked off. You could staple these posts into an encyclopedia as a classic example of a scum-motivated attack.
Quote from terry »
Page 1:
Ok, post #19 Highroller claims Goblin Recruiter, he claims it really hard. Like over-emphasizing the fact that he is a CREATURE. Also, I find it interesting that the card itself doesn't actually put anything in the graveyard, it puts cards on top of your deck, but his ability puts cards in the graveyard.
The very next post Grape comes in and says we shouldn't be claiming because his role cares about card types, which seems like a pro-town chime in to me. Vezo, says that it doesn't help him and in post #25, Rezom breaks the RVS seal and votes Vezo for that very comment. Like, it's a really bad vote. Super forced. Bur votes him for it, and Vezo replies pretty reasonably I thought (#28). Cantrip also vote Rezom shortly after. Now even though Rezom earned a couple votes for it, Rezom still tries to justify it and again acts like Grape's comment to keep it in our pants is the rule of the lord. It's insanely bad by Rezom, but somehow, Kami comes in and counters with a vote on Vezo (#35) for being too defensive. It's a really weird side to take in all of this... almost like it's forced. Axel calls him on it, but Rezom's next post is even more out of this world (#37). He starts off talking like Vezo was trying to force claims out of people. Then he quotes veto saying that he would behave this way as either alignment and Rezom transforms that into saying that vezo was saying that he does it every game. This whole post is just a mess. Then I vote Kami because his vote on Vezo stunk like BS. Then Kami, throws some shade on Axel for calling him out on it. Then GD for doing the same thing. A couple players like M005 (#46) and Grape (#50) don't seem to get Bur's vote on Rezom like I do. Grape's post is a bit more interesting. He questions Kami's vote on Vezo and he questions me for my vote on Kami. Both seemed pretty obvious reasons to vote to me, so I'm not sure how to take this. I think maybe grape just was skimming and didn't really follow the flow. I do kind of worry that he was just skimming to make weak scum cases while not really trying to solve.
Ok, so that's how I read Day 1. I'll work on a Day 2 recap later tonight or tomorrow.
Yeah, look how's he trying to sell this with his adjectives. "Insanely bad." "really weird." "Almost like it's forced." But there's also no fire, excitement, no passion. This isn't analysis, and it also isn't a townie getting excited at finding pay dirt. This is a hit job.
Terminate him. We don't need no stinkin' lurker lynch. Vote: TheRealStinkyJoeTerry.
I think that's all I'm sharing with the class till a bit later in the day/pending more research. I wanna look at some meta for baseline on another suspect.
Terry is an absolute lock for one scum slot though.
@Az: A few games ago I would have ranked my scum game at 7 or 8, with moments of 9. The last few games I've played, though, multiple players have correctly pegged me as scum early on and throughout games, so I'm feeling more like a 4-5. Hoping a few town games will help me refind my mojo.
I suppose the unusual calm I was getting from Terry could be because he's scum, but I really feel like he sounds like his standard town self. I don't really want to lynch Terry.
@Highroller: Rather than publicly calling for replacements, just let the mod do his job. If you absolutely feel like something needs to be done on that kind of front, PM the mod, but calling for replacements/modkills in-game is, I believe, usually frowned upon.
@Vezok: Humor me. Let's say you lynch me toDay and I flip town. Who gets your reread/scrutiny toNight?
@Grape: I don't feel like your back and forth with Highroller is productive. When you respond to Az, will you also give your thoughts on Az's entrance and posts since then?
@Dan: I felt like KA was *only* asking and not doing. And I'm 100% serious: a big part of why the (very poor) fake daykill was to get another Highroller response. His WTFlip moments have been the highlights of the game, so far, for me. I thought I *might* get a response of some sort from Kami (other than the one he actually gave), which would have been nice since he's still not really giving any strong reads, which is concerning. I don't like his "I have Bur down as a deadline lynch". What "gotcha"?
@Kami: Why no Bur vote? It's not good to lynch *anyone* without a chance to claim, and we're running out of time. It doesn't have to be Bur; apply pressure somewhere, please.
(That goes for anyone not voting or who has the only vote on a player right now. That swooping sound? That's the deadline approaching. Put your vote somewhere that matters.)
@Mod: Am I correct that there is ~26 hours left before deadline?
I'll be on the road much of tomorrow, but I'll do my best to be here for deadline to help prevent no lynch. Would be up for Bur, Grape, or Axelrod, probably. Could probably be convinced to wagon Kami based on his recent posts.
Oh, and the reason I was asking Az and Bur about Axel's 225 was because the last two games Axel was in on this site were Zero Escape (modded by Bur) and Disinheritance (modded by Az), and both of those had scum daychat and neither game (that I could see) had any mod announcements about what the scum got, so it felt a little odd that Axel was saying that usually there's a mod announcement, but both games were a while back and it probably isn't significant, so... meh.
Terry wanders up to highroller and pokes him for 1 damage. Axelrod spills Dr Pepper on Bur. Azrael wanders casually up to Terry and strikes the family guy evil monkey pose in his face.
Highroller, meanwhile, yells louder than everyone.
Except for MaRo, whose sobbing screams of sincere sadness saturate the scenery.
The Deadline is (NZtime) October 30th at around 9:30pm. A possible two-day extension may be enacted, as quite a few people are currently V/LA or need to be prodded.
No time today (tonight) will definitely have some time tomorrow and be around for the deadline.
On Bur; he's a shrug at this point. I liked his entrance but he's done nothing since. Not my first choice but would lynch him over no lynching. Probably will have to be lynched at some point.
@Highroller Reason I threw up my hands in frustration is you asked me what I thought townie responses from Rezombie would be. I gave you two different ones and you acted like the words I was putting in his mouth were my own.
@Az My first choice is Rezombie. I think he's reasonably scummy and lacks any town indicators I've seen. I know someone mentioned seeing some but I haven't noticed any. I also want to lynch KA and Terry but not as high a priority as Rez to me. KA's caginess is pinging me. It's not something I really remember him doing before this game. My read on Terry is stale but I really didn't like his entrance. His "I like what grape is doing, pushing me to get me engaged" read is just bizarre. Haven't had a chance to take your case in. I'll read it in the morning.
On highroller I wouldn't love him getting run up. I think he really believes the town should mass claim thing and that he did believe the random lynching wins the game thing too. And going for them as hard as he has would be such a weird all in as scum. It's not a lock town read but I just don't feel he's that scummy and have several people I'd lynch before him. I wouldn't hard defend him because my read isn't that strong but I definitely wouldn't be cheering.
@Cantrip I haven't had a chance to read his wall on Terry yet and don't have a firm read on him. Nothing immediately pinged me and apart from having me towards the bottom of his reads wall our reads were reasonably similar. Townish-null at this point. I should be able give you a more in depth answer when I wake up and actually read his wall. What do you make of him so far?
I'm down to lynch anyone with the exception of Iso and Azrael, but if I see a reasonable case on those two I might change my mind.
That's not especially encouraging.
Prepping for a deep dive into JoeTerry and whether what Az. just posted is a fair assessment or not.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Az, you know you're doing Joe's posts in reverse order there, yes? I'm pretty sure that's not the best way to go about it. Kind of matters to read things in sequence for context.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I realize Terry has been AWOL for a few days, but QUESTION:
You have mentioned being suspicious of Highroller's claim, and also suspicious for the way he was calling for a mass claim.
1) Do you think he's lying about being the Goblin Recruiter and being responsible for the Goblin in the graveyard? He's also promising another one will appear tomorrow. So, his role pretty much has to either be directly responsible for it, or he (as scum) is given to know what the Goblin means and how it appears. But what do you see as the scum-benefit in lying about it in your opening post like that?
You seem to question the "flavor" of the role, i.e. why would a Goblin Recruiter be chucking Goblins in the graveyard, which is exactly a point I already made (albeit in joking fashion). But how serious a point is this for you?
2) You have made an argument for why you think a mass claim would be advantageous for scum (and therefore why Highroller, as scum, could be pushing for one). Your argument appears to be a very general one that could apply in almost every game - i.e. you think mass-claiming usually benefits the scum. But isn't that almost entirely dependent on what the actual set-up is? Also, you say that when you are scum you pray for a Town mass claim, but my experience has been the opposite. I hate having to claim as scum and especially hate having to claim early. It's way, way too restrictive, and you are always fearing the dreaded counter-claim. Unless you know that you have been provided with a very safe false-claim, or that the game has been designed such that all the roles could plausibly be Town/Mafia. Is that what you think is going on in this game?
I'll have some other comments later.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
No time today (tonight) will definitely have some time tomorrow and be around for the deadline.
On Bur; he's a shrug at this point. I liked his entrance but he's done nothing since. Not my first choice but would lynch him over no lynching. Probably will have to be lynched at some point.
@Highroller Reason I threw up my hands in frustration is you asked me what I thought townie responses from Rezombie would be. I gave you two different ones and you acted like the words I was putting in his mouth were my own.
@Az My first choice is Rezombie. I think he's reasonably scummy and lacks any town indicators I've seen. I know someone mentioned seeing some but I haven't noticed any. I also want to lynch KA and Terry but not as high a priority as Rez to me. KA's caginess is pinging me. It's not something I really remember him doing before this game. My read on Terry is stale but I really didn't like his entrance. His "I like what grape is doing, pushing me to get me engaged" read is just bizarre. Haven't had a chance to take your case in. I'll read it in the morning.
On highroller I wouldn't love him getting run up. I think he really believes the town should mass claim thing and that he did believe the random lynching wins the game thing too. And going for them as hard as he has would be such a weird all in as scum. It's not a lock town read but I just don't feel he's that scummy and have several people I'd lynch before him. I wouldn't hard defend him because my read isn't that strong but I definitely wouldn't be cheering.
@Cantrip I haven't had a chance to read his wall on Terry yet and don't have a firm read on him. Nothing immediately pinged me and apart from having me towards the bottom of his reads wall our reads were reasonably similar. Townish-null at this point. I should be able give you a more in depth answer when I wake up and actually read his wall. What do you make of him so far?
God, I want to lynch you.
This is a pretty strong indicator that Bur is scum if Grape is scum.
Iso, opinions on how fast/how high of a tree Terry should be strung from also?
I've sort of been ignoring JoeTerry in favor of my worldview of KA/Grapefruit/Bur. But if one of them's not scum, I'm not opposed to a Day 4 JoeTerry lynch.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Why do people not like Grapefruit? I do not get it.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Another pairing: I think Az and Terry are not both scum. Maybe I can figure out this game like a logic grid puzzle?
@Cantrip: That's fair. I thought about voting for one of my "semi-pairs", but I don't think I have any "exactly one of X is scum" yet, so they're not true dichotomies and a town flip would tell us nothing. So: vote rezombied
@Iso: You're frustrated? If you actually ask me a meaningful question I'll answer it. Speaking of questions: Could you explain why you think that's an indicator that Bur and GF are scum together? I have my opinion but I'd like to hear your explanation.
Another pairing: I think Az and Terry are not both scum. Maybe I can figure out this game like a logic grid puzzle?
@Cantrip: That's fair. I thought about voting for one of my "semi-pairs", but I don't think I have any "exactly one of X is scum" yet, so they're not true dichotomies and a town flip would tell us nothing. So: vote rezombied
@Iso: You're frustrated? If you actually ask me a meaningful question I'll answer it. Speaking of questions: Could you explain why you think that's an indicator that Bur and GF are scum together? I have my opinion but I'd like to hear your explanation.
I did. You're choosing not to answer it. Why are you lying to me?
As for your question, since I have the courtesy of answering inquiries sent my way, it reads exactly the way I'd expect scum trying to wave off pressure on a buddy/looking for a handwave reason not to bus without being able to supply much substance to the defense/not trying to look too hard like he's defending Bur would look.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I feel relatively confident saying that at least one of the people on the "Highroller is town for pushing the massclaim" momentum is scum. I'm leaning Grape after his most recent post, but I think I'd need to re-read to properly assess.
So, I read Grapefruit's posts in isolation and the way his reads and thought processes develop through the game don't seem entirely organic - I'm getting twinges of insight that his views are being shaped more by the momentum of the game rather than the occurrences therein. The indicator of this to me is that his posts read like he's establishing views and then working to justify them afterwards, rather than the other way around. It feels clunky and unnatural.
Relatedly, I don't really like that Grapefruit hasn't addressed my issues with his play (much in the same way I take issue with KA doing the same). I mean, I realize I was a bit vague, but that was because I'm not interested in generating quotewalls like the days of yore.
No time today (tonight) will definitely have some time tomorrow and be around for the deadline.
On Bur; he's a shrug at this point. I liked his entrance but he's done nothing since. Not my first choice but would lynch him over no lynching. Probably will have to be lynched at some point.
@Highroller Reason I threw up my hands in frustration is you asked me what I thought townie responses from Rezombie would be. I gave you two different ones and you acted like the words I was putting in his mouth were my own.
@Az My first choice is Rezombie. I think he's reasonably scummy and lacks any town indicators I've seen. I know someone mentioned seeing some but I haven't noticed any. I also want to lynch KA and Terry but not as high a priority as Rez to me. KA's caginess is pinging me. It's not something I really remember him doing before this game. My read on Terry is stale but I really didn't like his entrance. His "I like what grape is doing, pushing me to get me engaged" read is just bizarre. Haven't had a chance to take your case in. I'll read it in the morning.
On highroller I wouldn't love him getting run up. I think he really believes the town should mass claim thing and that he did believe the random lynching wins the game thing too. And going for them as hard as he has would be such a weird all in as scum. It's not a lock town read but I just don't feel he's that scummy and have several people I'd lynch before him. I wouldn't hard defend him because my read isn't that strong but I definitely wouldn't be cheering.
@Cantrip I haven't had a chance to read his wall on Terry yet and don't have a firm read on him. Nothing immediately pinged me and apart from having me towards the bottom of his reads wall our reads were reasonably similar. Townish-null at this point. I should be able give you a more in depth answer when I wake up and actually read his wall. What do you make of him so far?
God, I want to lynch you.
This is a pretty strong indicator that Bur is scum if Grape is scum.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'm back from my V/LA weekend. Exhausted and slammed at work, so no meaningful content from me today.
@Vez You're right, I haven't really posted much analysis as opposed to probing questions. I'll fix that tomorrow, odds are. I particularly need to pick Iso & Az's brains.
I definitely can't be here in the last 6ish hours leading into the deadline, unfortunately.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Hi, I’m sorry I missed your call, but if you leave a message for me with your name, number and reason for your call, I’ll get back to you as soon as possible. Thanks!
Hi, I’m sorry I missed your call, but if you leave a message for me with your name, number and reason for your call, I’ll get back to you as soon as possible. Thanks!
My name is Azrael. I ain't got a number. And I'm coming to kill you. Thanks!
Hi, I’m sorry I missed your call, but if you leave a message for me with your name, number and reason for your call, I’ll get back to you as soon as possible. Thanks!
My name is Azrael. I ain't got a number. And I'm coming to kill you. Thanks!
Another pairing: I think Az and Terry are not both scum. Maybe I can figure out this game like a logic grid puzzle?
@Cantrip: That's fair. I thought about voting for one of my "semi-pairs", but I don't think I have any "exactly one of X is scum" yet, so they're not true dichotomies and a town flip would tell us nothing. So: vote rezombied
@Iso: You're frustrated? If you actually ask me a meaningful question I'll answer it. Speaking of questions: Could you explain why you think that's an indicator that Bur and GF are scum together? I have my opinion but I'd like to hear your explanation.
I did. You're choosing not to answer it. Why are you lying to me?
As for your question, since I have the courtesy of answering inquiries sent my way, it reads exactly the way I'd expect scum trying to wave off pressure on a buddy/looking for a handwave reason not to bus without being able to supply much substance to the defense/not trying to look too hard like he's defending Bur would look.
Does scum!Iso ISO himself to "help" the thread "understand" what he's getting at?
Argh. Deadline is approaching, and Bur isn't posting, and no one's applying pressure.
Vote Grape
C'mon, Iso. Choo choo.
If the past is any indicator, Iso, in general, does not like repeating himself, and would rather quote his own posts than re-type anything he's already said. That said, I'm trying to enjoy the game, this time, rather than raging incessantly about people not immediately sheeping me on to obvscum.
Anyway, I can't apply pressure if Grapefruit isn't posting.
Another pairing: I think Az and Terry are not both scum. Maybe I can figure out this game like a logic grid puzzle?
@Cantrip: That's fair. I thought about voting for one of my "semi-pairs", but I don't think I have any "exactly one of X is scum" yet, so they're not true dichotomies and a town flip would tell us nothing. So: vote rezombied
@Iso: You're frustrated? If you actually ask me a meaningful question I'll answer it. Speaking of questions: Could you explain why you think that's an indicator that Bur and GF are scum together? I have my opinion but I'd like to hear your explanation.
I did. You're choosing not to answer it. Why are you lying to me?
As for your question, since I have the courtesy of answering inquiries sent my way, it reads exactly the way I'd expect scum trying to wave off pressure on a buddy/looking for a handwave reason not to bus without being able to supply much substance to the defense/not trying to look too hard like he's defending Bur would look.
I'm back. I've reviewed. We're still talking about a massclaim? Seriously? And the justification now is catching mafia in fakeclaims? I just played a scum game and the mod literally designed and gave us safe fakeclaims, including both mechanics and flavor.
This reads as pandering to the town.
Quote from KamikazeArchon »
I started out not caring much and now I'm definitely against a massclaim simply because Highroller's arguments have been so flawed.
I'm under the impression that you're experienced enough that somebody you've never played with's arguments in favor of something really shouldn't be affecting your opinion this much. This reads as bravado for the sake of looking confident.
Quote from KamikazeArchon »
Vezok: Your view on cantrip is extremely similar to mine. Why no commentary on that? Especially given that I successfully "mindmelded" you in Phantom Tollbooth as scum?
This reads as Kami trying really hard to get people to townread him. That said, I do at least like that he called vezok out, here.
-
At any rate, this post sent up red flags and alarm bells for me. It doesn't feel like it comes from a townie mindset.
Choo choo no brakes etc.
PLEASE ADDRESS MY ARGUMENTS HERE WITH SOMETHING BETTER THAN "NO U" "UR RONG" ETC.
Also, since when are you this confident so early on?
I put another two dots in willpower
thanks for addressing my other issues with your play
Nothing to address in a bunch of "this reads as". You're welcome to your opinion.
no ur welcome
Okay, so what you're saying is if I rephrase my post to say, "KA is scum because his mindset is [blah blah etc.]" rather than "KA is scum because this post reads like his mindset is [blah blah etc.]", you'll respond to my points about you?
If so, can we skip the pedantry? Because I'm really not convinced you just don't know how to respond to me and save face, here.
@Iso: Speculation on my mindset, in general, doesn't merit a response. If you ask me a question I'll answer it. If you claim I did X when I did Y, I'll probably comment on it. But if you claim I did X, and I really did do X, but you just add some speculation about why I did X, there's no point in commenting on that most of the time. And here, the X is just "I made those posts" which, duh, yes I did make those posts.
Cool. I'm claiming you did X in Y way because Z. Prove me wrong.
I'd like to point out that KA continues to refuse to refute my points against him (saying "your argument isn't an argument" doesn't count because LOOK AT ME HERE I AM ARGUING THAT IT IS AN ARGUMENT), instead choosing play at pedantry and semantics.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Vezok: Thoughts on Grape? Are you only going with Rez because I'm voting Grape? Because I could lynch Rez in a pinch, but I would rather lynch somewhere else.
@Iso: You can apply pressure with your vote.
@Mod: I would like to request the deadline extension, if possible. This is the least frantic "we have less than 12 hours before deadline" I've ever seen, and I'd really rather we didn't just lynch someone without them having the chance to respond.
Almost back to my home state. No idea when I'll be able to post next, though.
@cantrip: Grape feels a lot like normal grape with not much else. He is about as middle of the road as it comes. I could go for lynching him if it comes to that, but I'd rather try rezombied first. I'm bad at reading grape so I just kinda assume he is town and work from there.
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2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I thing grape is scum and i think terry is scum.
i think when i did the iso on grape looking for "obvious" stuff for his suspicions of terry there wasnt anything and he was just setting up a potential bus.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
And even if I actually thought that my post would influence anyone, I'd still do it as any alignment as I have a strong history of suggesting different types of mass-claims early game even though almost the entire MTGS playerbase considers it a bad idea.
I don't care. "I do this every game" isn't really a valid argument to me right now.
I don't really need to show work here. You can just read this snippet.
okay iso, my initial thoughts were in 116 which covers everything up to that point. and im at work so i cant really dive in how i would like to. I'll go ahead and
vote TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
I should have time like 2 hours before the deadline to dissect the grapefruit terry interaction from home.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Well it's only fitting you are tunneling me here Iso. I think this means the only game we've had together where you didn't hard push me D1 is F&E. Nice to get back to normal for the last mission.
Your entire case is that my conclusions seem backwards from my reasons and that I am shrugging on Bur. I think the first part is why you always read me wrong.
I'd vote Terry here but before reading Azs wall I prefer lynching Rez.
Okay after all that I have nothing. Az's case is good. His confidence seems excessive based on what he's saying but it's not way out of line. I'd still rather lynch Rez but it's closer than it was.
@iso: the first part of my post #229 has the quote from terry that i want an explanation on how he reached that conclusion. And he wont do it.
I can understand why that would be frustrating. *Coughs pointedly at KA and Grapefruit*
lol
You see it's funny because that's exactly why Rez is scum.
Anyway I have been answering your questions, you just seem to take them as further proof I'm scum. Anyway have fun trying to lynch me.
@Cantrip I'm going to wait and see on Az. He's doing a few things that always ping me (the confidence mostly) but our reads are lining up. His reasons in the Terry case and his initial catch up are solid and I like the internal change of heart on Highroller in particular. It's not outside Az's scum range, but it's not something most people would do as scum for a first impression. Have him at a town lean for now.
I think this is a reasonable lynch although I'm not convinced he is scum.
You misspelled Terry's name.
Give it up Az. I’m not scum. Move along.
******* answer my question
Im pretty sure I did. It required you actually reading, so maybe you weren’t satisfied.
I asked something also.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I checked meta on Ganderin-Dan. I didn't like what I saw. Or rather, I liked what I saw there, much better than I did here.
There's likely not a case yet that would convince anyone side from me if I laid it out right now though. So I'll wait a spell for some more ammo, and chuck some more bricks at Terry in the meantime. He's just so darn brick-to-the-face-able. That needs its own word. Like brictadafaciable. Mm. Perfect.
If we're at the point where we're contemplating lynching Bur based upon his lack of posts and general lack of content in his posts, then I think it's safe to say we should start calling for his replacement. Anyone else in favor of this?
Pursuant to that, reserving posting many of those notes until times of maximal impact. In lieu, I'd say that after reading through Grape, he's moved back a couple spots in my lynch order.
Grape, I'd like to know two things at this juncture.
1. Leading lynch candidate, and why.
2. Describe your feelings were Highroller to be run up as a primary wagon.
Look at this explanation. Look at his word choice here. He "can't help" but "feel" highroller's attacks are forced. That's so limp-wristed, vague, and poorly thought out that I can't stand it.
No maybes about it, after that last post.
Aww, hell naw. Die die die die die.
Way way way too simple of a world view.
When he's talking about his reads on townies, I'm inclined to believe him.
But then he explicitly tries to nail highroller not for being scummy, but because he's supposedly "so wrong it's scummy." Gentlemen, this is not how townies make cases. This is how scum excuse bad play to magick up mislynches, by framing others' play as poor.
See also post above, where Kami is scum for "strangely" defending Rez too hard, and Rez's case is bad. These cases are not focused on finding scum, they're focused on making us believe that the weird people should be picked off. You could staple these posts into an encyclopedia as a classic example of a scum-motivated attack.
Yeah, look how's he trying to sell this with his adjectives. "Insanely bad." "really weird." "Almost like it's forced." But there's also no fire, excitement, no passion. This isn't analysis, and it also isn't a townie getting excited at finding pay dirt. This is a hit job.
Terminate him. We don't need no stinkin' lurker lynch. Vote: TheRealStinkyJoeTerry.
Terry is an absolute lock for one scum slot though.
@Az: A few games ago I would have ranked my scum game at 7 or 8, with moments of 9. The last few games I've played, though, multiple players have correctly pegged me as scum early on and throughout games, so I'm feeling more like a 4-5. Hoping a few town games will help me refind my mojo.
I suppose the unusual calm I was getting from Terry could be because he's scum, but I really feel like he sounds like his standard town self. I don't really want to lynch Terry.
@Highroller: Rather than publicly calling for replacements, just let the mod do his job. If you absolutely feel like something needs to be done on that kind of front, PM the mod, but calling for replacements/modkills in-game is, I believe, usually frowned upon.
@Vezok: Humor me. Let's say you lynch me toDay and I flip town. Who gets your reread/scrutiny toNight?
@Grape: I don't feel like your back and forth with Highroller is productive. When you respond to Az, will you also give your thoughts on Az's entrance and posts since then?
@Dan: I felt like KA was *only* asking and not doing. And I'm 100% serious: a big part of why the (very poor) fake daykill was to get another Highroller response. His WTFlip moments have been the highlights of the game, so far, for me. I thought I *might* get a response of some sort from Kami (other than the one he actually gave), which would have been nice since he's still not really giving any strong reads, which is concerning. I don't like his "I have Bur down as a deadline lynch". What "gotcha"?
@Kami: Why no Bur vote? It's not good to lynch *anyone* without a chance to claim, and we're running out of time. It doesn't have to be Bur; apply pressure somewhere, please.
(That goes for anyone not voting or who has the only vote on a player right now. That swooping sound? That's the deadline approaching. Put your vote somewhere that matters.)
@Mod: Am I correct that there is ~26 hours left before deadline?
I'll be on the road much of tomorrow, but I'll do my best to be here for deadline to help prevent no lynch. Would be up for Bur, Grape, or Axelrod, probably. Could probably be convinced to wagon Kami based on his recent posts.
I'm down to lynch anyone with the exception of Iso and Azrael, but if I see a reasonable case on those two I might change my mind.
Mod: Vote count please?
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Highroller, meanwhile, yells louder than everyone.
Except for MaRo, whose sobbing screams of sincere sadness saturate the scenery.
Votecount 1.3
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (1) - Azrael
Highroller (1) - TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
Bur (2) - Cantripmancer, Axelrod
Cantripmancer (1) - Vezokpiraka
Grapefruit21 (1) - Highroller
KamikazeArchon (1) - Iso
rezombied (2) - Bur, Grapefruit21
Mana untapped (3) - Ganderin_Dan, rezombied, KamikazeArchon,
With 12 alive, it is SEVEN to lynch.
The Deadline is (NZtime) October 30th at around 9:30pm. A possible two-day extension may be enacted, as quite a few people are currently V/LA or need to be prodded.
On Bur; he's a shrug at this point. I liked his entrance but he's done nothing since. Not my first choice but would lynch him over no lynching. Probably will have to be lynched at some point.
@Highroller Reason I threw up my hands in frustration is you asked me what I thought townie responses from Rezombie would be. I gave you two different ones and you acted like the words I was putting in his mouth were my own.
@Az My first choice is Rezombie. I think he's reasonably scummy and lacks any town indicators I've seen. I know someone mentioned seeing some but I haven't noticed any. I also want to lynch KA and Terry but not as high a priority as Rez to me. KA's caginess is pinging me. It's not something I really remember him doing before this game. My read on Terry is stale but I really didn't like his entrance. His "I like what grape is doing, pushing me to get me engaged" read is just bizarre. Haven't had a chance to take your case in. I'll read it in the morning.
On highroller I wouldn't love him getting run up. I think he really believes the town should mass claim thing and that he did believe the random lynching wins the game thing too. And going for them as hard as he has would be such a weird all in as scum. It's not a lock town read but I just don't feel he's that scummy and have several people I'd lynch before him. I wouldn't hard defend him because my read isn't that strong but I definitely wouldn't be cheering.
@Cantrip I haven't had a chance to read his wall on Terry yet and don't have a firm read on him. Nothing immediately pinged me and apart from having me towards the bottom of his reads wall our reads were reasonably similar. Townish-null at this point. I should be able give you a more in depth answer when I wake up and actually read his wall. What do you make of him so far?
Prepping for a deep dive into JoeTerry and whether what Az. just posted is a fair assessment or not.
*wub wub*
Iso, opinions on how fast/how high of a tree Terry should be strung from also?
You have mentioned being suspicious of Highroller's claim, and also suspicious for the way he was calling for a mass claim.
1) Do you think he's lying about being the Goblin Recruiter and being responsible for the Goblin in the graveyard? He's also promising another one will appear tomorrow. So, his role pretty much has to either be directly responsible for it, or he (as scum) is given to know what the Goblin means and how it appears. But what do you see as the scum-benefit in lying about it in your opening post like that?
You seem to question the "flavor" of the role, i.e. why would a Goblin Recruiter be chucking Goblins in the graveyard, which is exactly a point I already made (albeit in joking fashion). But how serious a point is this for you?
2) You have made an argument for why you think a mass claim would be advantageous for scum (and therefore why Highroller, as scum, could be pushing for one). Your argument appears to be a very general one that could apply in almost every game - i.e. you think mass-claiming usually benefits the scum. But isn't that almost entirely dependent on what the actual set-up is? Also, you say that when you are scum you pray for a Town mass claim, but my experience has been the opposite. I hate having to claim as scum and especially hate having to claim early. It's way, way too restrictive, and you are always fearing the dreaded counter-claim. Unless you know that you have been provided with a very safe false-claim, or that the game has been designed such that all the roles could plausibly be Town/Mafia. Is that what you think is going on in this game?
I'll have some other comments later.
I can understand why that would be frustrating. *Coughs pointedly at KA and Grapefruit*
Flattered. Though with that in mind, I don't really understand how you still want to lynch Cantrip, at this point.
God, I want to lynch you.
This is a pretty strong indicator that Bur is scum if Grape is scum.
I've sort of been ignoring JoeTerry in favor of my worldview of KA/Grapefruit/Bur. But if one of them's not scum, I'm not opposed to a Day 4 JoeTerry lynch.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Cantrip: That's fair. I thought about voting for one of my "semi-pairs", but I don't think I have any "exactly one of X is scum" yet, so they're not true dichotomies and a town flip would tell us nothing. So:
vote rezombied
@Iso: You're frustrated? If you actually ask me a meaningful question I'll answer it. Speaking of questions: Could you explain why you think that's an indicator that Bur and GF are scum together? I have my opinion but I'd like to hear your explanation.
I did. You're choosing not to answer it. Why are you lying to me?
As for your question, since I have the courtesy of answering inquiries sent my way, it reads exactly the way I'd expect scum trying to wave off pressure on a buddy/looking for a handwave reason not to bus without being able to supply much substance to the defense/not trying to look too hard like he's defending Bur would look.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Have you tried reading his posts?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Vez You're right, I haven't really posted much analysis as opposed to probing questions. I'll fix that tomorrow, odds are. I particularly need to pick Iso & Az's brains.
I definitely can't be here in the last 6ish hours leading into the deadline, unfortunately.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Argh. Deadline is approaching, and Bur isn't posting, and no one's applying pressure.
Vote Grape
C'mon, Iso. Choo choo.
My name is Azrael. I ain't got a number. And I'm coming to kill you. Thanks!
I think this is a reasonable lynch although I'm not convinced he is scum.
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Check out the Shop Thread
You misspelled Terry's name.
If the past is any indicator, Iso, in general, does not like repeating himself, and would rather quote his own posts than re-type anything he's already said. That said, I'm trying to enjoy the game, this time, rather than raging incessantly about people not immediately sheeping me on to obvscum.
Anyway, I can't apply pressure if Grapefruit isn't posting.
Well, I definitely didn't retain any of them!
OH MY GOD
HERE, 50 FREAKING POSTS AGO:
PLEASE ADDRESS MY ARGUMENTS HERE WITH SOMETHING BETTER THAN "NO U" "UR RONG" ETC.
THANKS
Also:
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Iso: You can apply pressure with your vote.
@Mod: I would like to request the deadline extension, if possible. This is the least frantic "we have less than 12 hours before deadline" I've ever seen, and I'd really rather we didn't just lynch someone without them having the chance to respond.
Almost back to my home state. No idea when I'll be able to post next, though.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
It's almost as though I'm already voting Grape.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
i think when i did the iso on grape looking for "obvious" stuff for his suspicions of terry there wasnt anything and he was just setting up a potential bus.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
vote TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
I should have time like 2 hours before the deadline to dissect the grapefruit terry interaction from home.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Your entire case is that my conclusions seem backwards from my reasons and that I am shrugging on Bur. I think the first part is why you always read me wrong.
I'd vote Terry here but before reading Azs wall I prefer lynching Rez.
lol
You see it's funny because that's exactly why Rez is scum.
Anyway I have been answering your questions, you just seem to take them as further proof I'm scum. Anyway have fun trying to lynch me.
@Cantrip I'm going to wait and see on Az. He's doing a few things that always ping me (the confidence mostly) but our reads are lining up. His reasons in the Terry case and his initial catch up are solid and I like the internal change of heart on Highroller in particular. It's not outside Az's scum range, but it's not something most people would do as scum for a first impression. Have him at a town lean for now.
I asked something also.
There's likely not a case yet that would convince anyone side from me if I laid it out right now though. So I'll wait a spell for some more ammo, and chuck some more bricks at Terry in the meantime. He's just so darn brick-to-the-face-able. That needs its own word. Like brictadafaciable. Mm. Perfect.