Also I’m not really sure how in the hell the two most confirmed town players are being asked to claim first. This actually bonkers when I think about it
I'm Golgari Grave-Troll, town BP. Green (and black?!) Creature - Skeleton Troll
Why the (and black?!)
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Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Highroller, everyone in the thread seems to strongly disagree with you on Mafia theory. Are you going to continue pushing Mafia theory or are you going to do something else?
What are you talking about?
To ganderin_dan: Two things:
1. You don't know how Occam's Razor works, stop pretending you do.
2. Where's the claim?
@HR: Az doesn’t want to claim but he’s already shot himself in the foot. He’s buying time by trying to redirect focus on me. You know what he’s implied today about his results right?
For each [redacted] corpse(s) I eat, I become one-shot BP.
Few questions:
1. What does BP stand for? I'm not down with the lingo here.
2. Yeah... Why "and black?"
3. What's with the redacted?
Seriously, why is anyone redacting stuff? We have no reason for secrecy anymore, we're ONE LYNCH from winning the game! For goodness' sake people, irrespective of whether you believe there is ever an appropriate time for the town to be secretive and mysterious, that time is not now.
Also, you damn sure need to reveal what that redacted is, because I'm the one providing you the corpses. It does the town no favors to keep that hidden.
4. Ok, another creature. We should be keeping track of representations of the 4 card types as detailed in Grapefruit's role PM. Furthermore, I'm wondering if which banned list a card came from is relevant, or just an extraneous detail. Probably latter, but worth looking into.
Also, Azrael, c'mon man, just claim already. The more time we spend squabbling about this the worse it is for the town.
Also, why don't we instead just group the claim order in terms of tier? First tier claims, then the next, then the next.
1. First tier:
ganderin_dan - Golgari Grave-Troll [banned in modern], creature, green (and black??) [requires explanation], gains BP ability after consuming a corpse of a specific alignment [requires further details]
vezokpiraka
Azrael
Axelrod - Painter's Servant [banned in Commander], creature, Artifact, can target a player at night and learn Races/Card types.
KamikazeArchon
Highroller - Goblin Recruiter [banned in Legacy], creature, red, three abilities claimed: 1. creates a town goblin corpse each day; 2. creates 2 goblin corpses of variable alignment (town, neutral, mafia, his choice) upon death; 3. vig ability - details yet to be claimed [requires follow up]
Time walk, and I motivate people. I target during the day. No restrictions - so I can also boost kill abilities.
There is a little more, but not before Terry goes. I'll claim the rest after he finishes.
Ability could get neutered a bit by the mafia getting a menu of all the choicest night abilities that remain active. *shakes head* there are some silver linings to the mass claim too obviously, including some parts related to what I haven't claimed yet. And maybe we will have enough targets our odds will be good, but ugh.
Time walk, and I motivate people. I target during the day. No restrictions - so I can also boost kill abilities.
What does "motivate people" mean exactly? Further, what do you mean by "boost kill abilities"? Specifics man. Boost them how?
1. First tier:
ganderin_dan - Golgari Grave-Troll [banned in modern], creature, green (and black??) [requires explanation], gains BP ability after consuming a corpse of a specific alignment [requires further details]
vezokpiraka
Azrael - Time Walk, Sorcery, blue, motivates people [requires explanation], target during day, more to role [requires further details]
Axelrod - Painter's Servant [banned in Commander], creature, Artifact, can target a player at night and learn Races/Card types; has a quest, yet unclaimed [requires further details]
KamikazeArchon
Highroller - Goblin Recruiter [banned in Legacy], creature, red, three abilities claimed: 1. creates a town goblin corpse each day; 2. creates 2 goblin corpses of variable alignment (town, neutral, mafia, his choice) upon death; 3. vig ability - details yet to be claimed [requires follow up]
I'm Lin-Sivvi. I'm a complicated cop. I can target someone once per night. If they're town, they turn white and gain the Creature type and Rebel subtype, and I am informed that I succeeded. If they're mafia, nothing happens to them, I'm informed that my ability failed and I lose the ability permanently.
Thus, I am a variable-shot Cop; I can hit any number of townies but stop once I hit mafia. I lightly breadcrumbed this in #203 with my reference to building a townpile.
Notably: my role specifically includes the disclaimer that this game may include roles that cause false results. So a Godfather is possible, though certainly not guaranteed.
Unfortunately, I also have a drawback. I am protection-immune. I considered not claiming this part, but I think it would actually be worse for a doc to target me and have that be wasted and result in messed up plans. Better to just put it out there and try to work around it. I feel less exposed given that we at least have a Tracker, and the mafia Roleblocker is dead.
My N1 target was Iso. My ability succeeded. I hinted at this in #675.
No Az, I think you need to clarify what motivate means and if you target me. I don’t see what you think I’m going to change about my claim based on that info
I'm Lin-Sivvi. I'm a complicated cop. I can target someone once per night. If they're town, they turn white and gain the Creature type and Rebel subtype, and I am informed that I succeeded. If they're mafia, nothing happens to them, I'm informed that my ability failed and I lose the ability permanently.
Do their abilities change?
My N1 target was Iso. My ability succeeded. I hinted at this in #675.
I was wondering what that meant. Iso, can you confirm or deny this?
No Az, I think you need to clarify what motivate means and if you target me.
I agree with this.
1. First tier:
ganderin_dan - Golgari Grave-Troll [banned in Modern], creature, green (and black??) [requires explanation], gains BP ability after consuming a corpse of a specific alignment [requires further details]
vezokpiraka
Azrael - Time Walk [Banned in Legacy and Commander, restricted in Vintage], Sorcery, blue, motivates people [requires explanation], target during day, more to role [requires further details]
Axelrod - Painter's Servant [banned in Commander], creature, Artifact, can target a player at night and learn Races/Card types; has a quest, yet unclaimed [requires further details]
KamikazeArchon - Lin Sivvi [banned in Limited], Creature, white, converts town to white rebels, no effect on mafia, protection-immune, may produce false results
Highroller - Goblin Recruiter [banned in Legacy], creature, red, three abilities claimed: 1. creates a town goblin corpse each day; 2. creates 2 goblin corpses of variable alignment (town, neutral, mafia, his choice) upon death; 3. vig ability - details yet to be claimed [requires follow up]
So, vezokpiraka, and then Terry, Iso, and rezombied.
No Az, I think you need to clarify what motivate means and if you target me. I don’t see what you think I’m going to change about my claim based on that info
My turn to be stubborn, with reason. No. Full claim first, then me. As a motivator, my ability details can and will be verified in full by external sources without any question of their veracity. Its time for you to claim without any more transparent attempts to fish out details first.
I happily indicated my intent to claim first, prior to HR's claim. But I am not going to sit back and let you try to ride a bur friendly fire gambit to victory as mafia, if that is what is going on.
You even tried to indicate you had full claimed already. So what do YOU have to hide, Terry? I've already signalled I'm ready to come forward as the town needs and volunteer information. So far, the only things you've volunteered can be easily interpreted as highly self-serving in their timing, and misleading or secretive in their content.
Claiming to be vig uncountered in a 12 man setup is one thing. Great point in your favor there. But you claim to be full cleared?that's a step too far. And then getting partial countered by a player confirmed to be town puts a whole other complexion on that. Could there be room for two vigs in a 12 man game, on the same side? Think through the theory implications of that for half a sec. Town not only has a standard three mislynch margin to lose, but also has to miss or waste two vig shots on top of that? A 40% decrease in difficulty? And the mafia redirect doesn't even redirect kill abilities to stop either of those abilities? And the mafia RBer could be limited to not stopping them either? And we have a partial cop in KA? On top of everything else claimed and unclaimed as of yet?
And while you're at it, stop claiming responsibility for killing both mafia. High roller and Iso were onto Grape well within the first 250 posts, followed by others after my catch up post. Meanwhile, you were trying to push a case on now confirmed town HR for completely bogus reasons.
I mean, it's a hell of a strong position on paper, and coldly and dispassionately, it's still not likely enough as a scenario that I would feel happy saying you should be killed prior to an endgame scenario I expect neither of us ever live to reach over the natural course of this game, but im sitting here watching you do literally everything in your power to make me have behavioral misgivings about you.
I figured if I actually say the number of corpses (alignment/traits are unimportant & nonspecific), my role becomes actually useless. If it's really that important, I can claim it, but I don't think that it is for your purposes of deciding to lynch me or not.
I question the black, as I was told that prior to claiming, but I know that GGT is only green. I've asked Wuffles to confirm.
What else do you want, rez?
@Highroller feel free to either refute my points, explain how Occam's actually works, or don't ad hom/insult me. Thanks.
Az, I am also uncertain of what a motivator does. It usually gives some kind of extra shot, but there's a lot of different ways that could work. Please explain your ability.
Each night I can target a person (not goblin corpse) in the graveyard and a person who is alive. If the living person is killed, the dead person comes back to life for 1 day. If I use this ability twice unsuccessfully I lose it and gain an ability that says that I target someone in the graveyard and they get resurrected for a day.
We lynched grapefruit who was mafia yesterday, but I really wanted to get to my better ability so I targeted him and rezombied as I thought nobody would kill rezom.
As you can see my claim is unprovable until night 3 or if I get lucky during night 2.
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Dude Az, how dumb would it be for me after getting grape lynched Day 1 to use an extra scum vig on my own dude!? You are in a completely different reality. I have an uncountered vig kill on scum, I was the counterwagon to scum day 1 and what have you done? Push a mislynch? If you’re assuming I killed bur and am scum then who killed cantrip? Me too? Get in your place Az, you don’t have control here.
I figured if I actually say the number of corpses (alignment/traits are unimportant & nonspecific), my role becomes actually useless. If it's really that important, I can claim it, but I don't think that it is for your purposes of deciding to lynch me or not.
Actually, do claim that, if you wouldn't mind.
@Highroller feel free to either refute my points, explain how Occam's actually works, or don't ad hom/insult me. Thanks.
I apologize, that was uncalled for.
You are using Occam's Razor wrong. Occam's Razor is employed when there are two proposed scenarios and one of them adds elements that are completely unnecessary and generally unfalsifiable. Again, the idea that the apple falls from the tree because it is pushed by magical pink unicorns. We go with gravity because while we cannot disprove that the apple could, in the end, fall as a result of magical pink unicorns, it can be explained perfectly by gravity, and magical pink unicorns are not a falsifiable claim. Also there's no evidence that points to them.
This isn't analogous at all to what's going on. My statement was that Terry is not cleared town.
... Which is a correct statement. He's not cleared town. Therefore, "Terry is not cleared" is a factual statement. It just is. The only person cleared is myself, because Grapefruit's PM specifically stated that he could not use his ability on a mafia and he used it on me. It cannot therefore be that I am mafia.
But everyone else has a possibility that they could be mafia.
I think what you're invoking isn't Occam's Razor, it's the concept of reasonable doubt. Which I don't agree that Terry being town isn't within reasonable doubt, but at least that notion is applicable to this situation.
Each night I can target a person (not goblin corpse) in the graveyard and a person who is alive. If the living person is killed, the dead person comes back to life for 1 day. If I use this ability twice unsuccessfully I lose it and gain an ability that says that I target someone in the graveyard and they get resurrected for a day.
We lynched grapefruit who was mafia yesterday, but I really wanted to get to my better ability so I targeted him and rezombied as I thought nobody would kill rezom.
As you can see my claim is unprovable until night 3 or if I get lucky during night 2.
Like what is the point of me claiming if I have another shot or not? How does that help the town?
Seriously?
How it helps the town:
1. I'm also claiming vig. So that.
2. If you don't claim in full, others won't either, because they can just cite that you didn't, why should they?
Claims so far:
1. First tier:
ganderin_dan - Golgari Grave-Troll [banned in Modern], creature, green (and black??) [requires explanation], gains BP ability after consuming a corpse of a specific alignment [requires further details]
vezokpiraka - Recurring Nightmare [banned in Commander, Limited], enchantment, black, resurrector. Chooses a living and a dead person, if living dies at night, dead rises. Quest: after two unsuccessful attempts, gains an a more accurate resurrection ability.
Azrael - Time Walk [Banned in Legacy and Commander, restricted in Vintage], Sorcery, blue, motivates people [requires explanation], target during day, more to role [requires further details]
Axelrod - Painter's Servant [banned in Commander], creature, Artifact, can target a player at night and learn Races/Card types; has a quest, yet unclaimed [requires further details]
KamikazeArchon - Lin Sivvi [banned in Limited], Creature, white, converts town to white rebels, no effect on mafia, protection-immune, may produce false results
Highroller - Goblin Recruiter [banned in Legacy], creature, red, three abilities claimed: 1. creates a town goblin corpse each day; 2. creates 2 goblin corpses of variable alignment (town, neutral, mafia, his choice) upon death; 3. vig ability - details yet to be claimed [requires follow up]
Azrael and Terry: Look, Azrael, just claim what motivation does specifically. Then Terry will claim. Then you can claim who you targeted. Does that work?
Dude Az, how dumb would it be for me after getting grape lynched Day 1 to use an extra scum vig on my own dude!? You are in a completely different reality. I have an uncountered vig kill on scum, I was the counterwagon to scum day 1 and what have you done? Push a mislynch? If you’re assuming I killed bur and am scum then who killed cantrip? Me too? Get in your place Az, you don’t have control here.
If you succeed in getting everyone to falsely believe it clears you 100%, then its brilliant. I haven't read or asked the modern literature enough to know whether this game allows multi actions in addition to the kill, but that's actually more common than the reverse.
You're constantly asking everyone to view you in the light most favorable to the point that you are promulgating actual false views. If you're town, you need to drop the ridiculous level of hyperbole.
Still no good reason why you are refusing to full claim. Far as I can see, it's just "because Az asked me to," and your OMGUS is legendary to the point that you're not even walking through the logic of how this plays out.
The town is not going to gain any meaningful information from me going first with my remaining info. My claim info is verifiable by others and/or in public- so there is also zero risk of me altering my claim in response to what you say. No good reason for me to go first.
But your claim now has question marks surrounding it, since HR has come forward. And the town could well gain information if you clarify how your role functions. So claim. Finally.
Let the record show I assumed a role like Vezok's existed, thus my choosing to eat a goblin over a player, but I acknowledge it matters less with d1 scum lynch.
@highroller Thanks. All I've ever heard/read it referred to as was basically "the simplest explanation is normally right," and this is the first I've heard about things being unfalsifiable.
I'll wait to hear if anyone else thinks I should claim my # of corpses eaten. You didn't update that the type of corpse I eat doesn't matter.
Also, normally, motivation gives the player an extra ability use that they would normally have access to. So, if you only had a one-shot ability and it was motivated, a lot of the time that wouldn't work. Up to mod preference at that point.
Let me explain, I don’t trust Az. He’s clearly demonstrated that he has some unearthly tunnel vision on me and is definitely in the POE for last Scum. I have some details I would like to keep to myself because i think I can catch Az if he gets something wrong. I target a player, learn if they are land and have the choice to kill them. I sent the order to investigate Byr and kill him if he’s a land and that’s what I did. No one else can claim to have single handedly kill a scum this game and Az of all people doesn’t get the pass to tell me when to claim what I have elected to withhold . I withheld my claim when I was about to be lynched and by doing so was able to succeed in killing scum.
I question the black, as I was told that prior to claiming, but I know that GGT is only green. I've asked Wuffles to confirm.
What do you mean you were told that "prior to claiming?" You weren't told it right from the beginning of the game? Like in your role PM?
Are we just Rezombied and Iso at this point? Plus some details. Then I figure out how to win the game guaranteed
If Az has a "motivator" ability that goes off during the day and the person he targets gets informed of it, that seems pretty strong and confirm-able. Except, does that mean you didn't do it D1?
With that said, I really don't believe terry is scum. Why would scum terry claim az would flip rolecop. It's not something that scum thinks about.
I think axelrod is the last scum though.
Ah, you make me sad. Shouldn't matter though.
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Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
My ability is a one shot motivate, with some twists. I activate duinrg the day, and if the target is capable of taking extra actions that are not single shot abilities, then they will get to take an extra action. It does not trigger on one shot abilities. If the target is not capable of taking an additional action in the upcoming night, then my motivate is refunded and I can try again.
My "wait wait wait" post from earlier today was checking with the mod to see if this would allow me to clear people as town, depending on if the mafia kill would trigger my ability to activate. It does not, however.
I did not target d1, because I didn't want to blow my shot. I fired today at Terry very early in the day, because either the town gets an extra vig shot (what I expected/hoped for), or I catch him in a lie about whether he can fire multiple times.
Then, my attempt to motivate Terry failed, indicating he has nothing I can boost. He has no additional actions he can take tonight that are not one shots. When he says he can still investigate if someone is land and can then kill them - not true.
Originally I wanted to claim before him to verify that I had special info that he was one shot, before he said it himself. But then HR counter claimed him, and he started implying he could kill multiple times, not just once.
In before he tries to say this was the world's most pointless gambit and tries to retcon his claim.
Ok, that makes sense. I lose my ability once I successfully kill someone. That was what I was holding because I thought you were going to try to pin both kills on me, which both happened to be land.
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I'm Golgari Grave-Troll, town BP. Green (and black?!) Creature - Skeleton Troll.
At night, I target and devour a corpse. For each [redacted] corpse(s) I eat, I become one-shot BP.
Why the (and black?!)
why didnt you finish your post?
Not anymore. Claim.
What are you talking about?
To ganderin_dan: Two things:
1. You don't know how Occam's Razor works, stop pretending you do.
2. Where's the claim?
I'm down for claiming after Terry, but Terry isn't claiming until you do.
So if you and ganderin would kindly oblige us by claiming, we can get this day going.
dan half claimed in 753, but i want the rest and im willing to put him at L-2
Few questions:
1. What does BP stand for? I'm not down with the lingo here.
2. Yeah... Why "and black?"
3. What's with the redacted?
Seriously, why is anyone redacting stuff? We have no reason for secrecy anymore, we're ONE LYNCH from winning the game! For goodness' sake people, irrespective of whether you believe there is ever an appropriate time for the town to be secretive and mysterious, that time is not now.
Also, you damn sure need to reveal what that redacted is, because I'm the one providing you the corpses. It does the town no favors to keep that hidden.
4. Ok, another creature. We should be keeping track of representations of the 4 card types as detailed in Grapefruit's role PM. Furthermore, I'm wondering if which banned list a card came from is relevant, or just an extraneous detail. Probably latter, but worth looking into.
Also, Azrael, c'mon man, just claim already. The more time we spend squabbling about this the worse it is for the town.
If you have an accusation about Azrael, just say it out loud.
GGT is a green card, not G/B
Got it, thank you.
Also, why don't we instead just group the claim order in terms of tier? First tier claims, then the next, then the next.
1. First tier:
ganderin_dan - Golgari Grave-Troll [banned in modern], creature, green (and black??) [requires explanation], gains BP ability after consuming a corpse of a specific alignment [requires further details]
vezokpiraka
Azrael
Axelrod - Painter's Servant [banned in Commander], creature, Artifact, can target a player at night and learn Races/Card types.
KamikazeArchon
2. Second tier:
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry - claimed vig, nothing else [requires follow up]
Iso
rezombied
3. Third tier:
Highroller - Goblin Recruiter [banned in Legacy], creature, red, three abilities claimed: 1. creates a town goblin corpse each day; 2. creates 2 goblin corpses of variable alignment (town, neutral, mafia, his choice) upon death; 3. vig ability - details yet to be claimed [requires follow up]
There is a little more, but not before Terry goes. I'll claim the rest after he finishes.
Ability could get neutered a bit by the mafia getting a menu of all the choicest night abilities that remain active. *shakes head* there are some silver linings to the mass claim too obviously, including some parts related to what I haven't claimed yet. And maybe we will have enough targets our odds will be good, but ugh.
1. First tier:
ganderin_dan - Golgari Grave-Troll [banned in modern], creature, green (and black??) [requires explanation], gains BP ability after consuming a corpse of a specific alignment [requires further details]
vezokpiraka
Azrael - Time Walk, Sorcery, blue, motivates people [requires explanation], target during day, more to role [requires further details]
Axelrod - Painter's Servant [banned in Commander], creature, Artifact, can target a player at night and learn Races/Card types; has a quest, yet unclaimed [requires further details]
KamikazeArchon
2. Second tier:
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry - claimed vig, nothing else [requires follow up]
Iso
rezombied
3. Third tier:
Highroller - Goblin Recruiter [banned in Legacy], creature, red, three abilities claimed: 1. creates a town goblin corpse each day; 2. creates 2 goblin corpses of variable alignment (town, neutral, mafia, his choice) upon death; 3. vig ability - details yet to be claimed [requires follow up]
Thus, I am a variable-shot Cop; I can hit any number of townies but stop once I hit mafia. I lightly breadcrumbed this in #203 with my reference to building a townpile.
Notably: my role specifically includes the disclaimer that this game may include roles that cause false results. So a Godfather is possible, though certainly not guaranteed.
Unfortunately, I also have a drawback. I am protection-immune. I considered not claiming this part, but I think it would actually be worse for a doc to target me and have that be wasted and result in messed up plans. Better to just put it out there and try to work around it. I feel less exposed given that we at least have a Tracker, and the mafia Roleblocker is dead.
My N1 target was Iso. My ability succeeded. I hinted at this in #675.
Stop fishing for more info before you full claim, and just spit it out.
I was wondering what that meant. Iso, can you confirm or deny this?
I agree with this.
1. First tier:
ganderin_dan - Golgari Grave-Troll [banned in Modern], creature, green (and black??) [requires explanation], gains BP ability after consuming a corpse of a specific alignment [requires further details]
vezokpiraka
Azrael - Time Walk [Banned in Legacy and Commander, restricted in Vintage], Sorcery, blue, motivates people [requires explanation], target during day, more to role [requires further details]
Axelrod - Painter's Servant [banned in Commander], creature, Artifact, can target a player at night and learn Races/Card types; has a quest, yet unclaimed [requires further details]
KamikazeArchon - Lin Sivvi [banned in Limited], Creature, white, converts town to white rebels, no effect on mafia, protection-immune, may produce false results
2. Second tier:
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry - claimed vig, nothing else [requires follow up]
Iso
rezombied
3. Third tier:
Highroller - Goblin Recruiter [banned in Legacy], creature, red, three abilities claimed: 1. creates a town goblin corpse each day; 2. creates 2 goblin corpses of variable alignment (town, neutral, mafia, his choice) upon death; 3. vig ability - details yet to be claimed [requires follow up]
So, vezokpiraka, and then Terry, Iso, and rezombied.
My turn to be stubborn, with reason. No. Full claim first, then me. As a motivator, my ability details can and will be verified in full by external sources without any question of their veracity. Its time for you to claim without any more transparent attempts to fish out details first.
I happily indicated my intent to claim first, prior to HR's claim. But I am not going to sit back and let you try to ride a bur friendly fire gambit to victory as mafia, if that is what is going on.
You even tried to indicate you had full claimed already. So what do YOU have to hide, Terry? I've already signalled I'm ready to come forward as the town needs and volunteer information. So far, the only things you've volunteered can be easily interpreted as highly self-serving in their timing, and misleading or secretive in their content.
Claiming to be vig uncountered in a 12 man setup is one thing. Great point in your favor there. But you claim to be full cleared?that's a step too far. And then getting partial countered by a player confirmed to be town puts a whole other complexion on that. Could there be room for two vigs in a 12 man game, on the same side? Think through the theory implications of that for half a sec. Town not only has a standard three mislynch margin to lose, but also has to miss or waste two vig shots on top of that? A 40% decrease in difficulty? And the mafia redirect doesn't even redirect kill abilities to stop either of those abilities? And the mafia RBer could be limited to not stopping them either? And we have a partial cop in KA? On top of everything else claimed and unclaimed as of yet?
And while you're at it, stop claiming responsibility for killing both mafia. High roller and Iso were onto Grape well within the first 250 posts, followed by others after my catch up post. Meanwhile, you were trying to push a case on now confirmed town HR for completely bogus reasons.
I question the black, as I was told that prior to claiming, but I know that GGT is only green. I've asked Wuffles to confirm.
What else do you want, rez?
@Highroller feel free to either refute my points, explain how Occam's actually works, or don't ad hom/insult me. Thanks.
Az, I am also uncertain of what a motivator does. It usually gives some kind of extra shot, but there's a lot of different ways that could work. Please explain your ability.
Each night I can target a person (not goblin corpse) in the graveyard and a person who is alive. If the living person is killed, the dead person comes back to life for 1 day. If I use this ability twice unsuccessfully I lose it and gain an ability that says that I target someone in the graveyard and they get resurrected for a day.
We lynched grapefruit who was mafia yesterday, but I really wanted to get to my better ability so I targeted him and rezombied as I thought nobody would kill rezom.
As you can see my claim is unprovable until night 3 or if I get lucky during night 2.
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I apologize, that was uncalled for.
You are using Occam's Razor wrong. Occam's Razor is employed when there are two proposed scenarios and one of them adds elements that are completely unnecessary and generally unfalsifiable. Again, the idea that the apple falls from the tree because it is pushed by magical pink unicorns. We go with gravity because while we cannot disprove that the apple could, in the end, fall as a result of magical pink unicorns, it can be explained perfectly by gravity, and magical pink unicorns are not a falsifiable claim. Also there's no evidence that points to them.
This isn't analogous at all to what's going on. My statement was that Terry is not cleared town.
... Which is a correct statement. He's not cleared town. Therefore, "Terry is not cleared" is a factual statement. It just is. The only person cleared is myself, because Grapefruit's PM specifically stated that he could not use his ability on a mafia and he used it on me. It cannot therefore be that I am mafia.
But everyone else has a possibility that they could be mafia.
I think what you're invoking isn't Occam's Razor, it's the concept of reasonable doubt. Which I don't agree that Terry being town isn't within reasonable doubt, but at least that notion is applicable to this situation.
Holy crap. What.
Seriously?
How it helps the town:
1. I'm also claiming vig. So that.
2. If you don't claim in full, others won't either, because they can just cite that you didn't, why should they?
Claims so far:
1. First tier:
ganderin_dan - Golgari Grave-Troll [banned in Modern], creature, green (and black??) [requires explanation], gains BP ability after consuming a corpse of a specific alignment [requires further details]
vezokpiraka - Recurring Nightmare [banned in Commander, Limited], enchantment, black, resurrector. Chooses a living and a dead person, if living dies at night, dead rises. Quest: after two unsuccessful attempts, gains an a more accurate resurrection ability.
Azrael - Time Walk [Banned in Legacy and Commander, restricted in Vintage], Sorcery, blue, motivates people [requires explanation], target during day, more to role [requires further details]
Axelrod - Painter's Servant [banned in Commander], creature, Artifact, can target a player at night and learn Races/Card types; has a quest, yet unclaimed [requires further details]
KamikazeArchon - Lin Sivvi [banned in Limited], Creature, white, converts town to white rebels, no effect on mafia, protection-immune, may produce false results
2. Second tier:
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry - claimed vig, nothing else [requires follow up]
Iso
rezombied
3. Third tier:
Highroller - Goblin Recruiter [banned in Legacy], creature, red, three abilities claimed: 1. creates a town goblin corpse each day; 2. creates 2 goblin corpses of variable alignment (town, neutral, mafia, his choice) upon death; 3. vig ability - details yet to be claimed [requires follow up]
Azrael and Terry: Look, Azrael, just claim what motivation does specifically. Then Terry will claim. Then you can claim who you targeted. Does that work?
If you succeed in getting everyone to falsely believe it clears you 100%, then its brilliant. I haven't read or asked the modern literature enough to know whether this game allows multi actions in addition to the kill, but that's actually more common than the reverse.
You're constantly asking everyone to view you in the light most favorable to the point that you are promulgating actual false views. If you're town, you need to drop the ridiculous level of hyperbole.
Still no good reason why you are refusing to full claim. Far as I can see, it's just "because Az asked me to," and your OMGUS is legendary to the point that you're not even walking through the logic of how this plays out.
The town is not going to gain any meaningful information from me going first with my remaining info. My claim info is verifiable by others and/or in public- so there is also zero risk of me altering my claim in response to what you say. No good reason for me to go first.
But your claim now has question marks surrounding it, since HR has come forward. And the town could well gain information if you clarify how your role functions. So claim. Finally.
All the details, Terry.
@highroller Thanks. All I've ever heard/read it referred to as was basically "the simplest explanation is normally right," and this is the first I've heard about things being unfalsifiable.
I'll wait to hear if anyone else thinks I should claim my # of corpses eaten. You didn't update that the type of corpse I eat doesn't matter.
Also, normally, motivation gives the player an extra ability use that they would normally have access to. So, if you only had a one-shot ability and it was motivated, a lot of the time that wouldn't work. Up to mod preference at that point.
@HR - Gan's statement about what a motivator does generally speaking is as much as should be in the thread until Terry stops dragging his heels.
Also $5 says if Az flips scum it’s role cop
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I think axelrod is the last scum though.
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Are we just Rezombied and Iso at this point? Plus some details. Then I figure out how to win the game guaranteed
If Az has a "motivator" ability that goes off during the day and the person he targets gets informed of it, that seems pretty strong and confirm-able. Except, does that mean you didn't do it D1? Ah, you make me sad. Shouldn't matter though.
You're lying.
My ability is a one shot motivate, with some twists. I activate duinrg the day, and if the target is capable of taking extra actions that are not single shot abilities, then they will get to take an extra action. It does not trigger on one shot abilities. If the target is not capable of taking an additional action in the upcoming night, then my motivate is refunded and I can try again.
My "wait wait wait" post from earlier today was checking with the mod to see if this would allow me to clear people as town, depending on if the mafia kill would trigger my ability to activate. It does not, however.
I did not target d1, because I didn't want to blow my shot. I fired today at Terry very early in the day, because either the town gets an extra vig shot (what I expected/hoped for), or I catch him in a lie about whether he can fire multiple times.
Then, my attempt to motivate Terry failed, indicating he has nothing I can boost. He has no additional actions he can take tonight that are not one shots. When he says he can still investigate if someone is land and can then kill them - not true.
Originally I wanted to claim before him to verify that I had special info that he was one shot, before he said it himself. But then HR counter claimed him, and he started implying he could kill multiple times, not just once.
In before he tries to say this was the world's most pointless gambit and tries to retcon his claim.