Terry I'm voting you because you have no opinions on anything as far as I can discern. Except the poor quality of your wagon. You were quick to vote KA and have been pushed a few things like apart from your certainty in jumping on Highroller that Az outlined, but I can't think of any reasons for anything you've done. You've also had no conviction to some of your pushes and bounced around. You're now expressing near certainty on me being scum on the evidence of my card saying target opponent and being a RB. That's some weak setup gaming and based on nowhere near full information.
I don't think anyone should really make decisions based off my claim one way or another. I think it has a few quirks that are obviously townie but like with such limited information it's not a good idea to try and draw conclusions based off it.
It bears mentioning that GF volunteered his card name, presumably knowing what it did. For those who want to use the flavor of it against him, do you think he just screwed up there, did not realize it might get held against him, or do you think he was just hoping to WIFOM his way out of it?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Az: Given that Grape is potentially on the chopping block, with multiple people indicating that their vote of him is staying regardless of his claim, wouldn't now be--just maybe--a good time to trot those town tell opinions out and see if you can get other people to agree with you? Because I'm much more inclined to lynch Grape, and your accusations against Terry aren't swaying me. So show me the good you see in Grape? Eh, maybe belay that. Let Grape respond first, please.
Also, how much actual game experience have you had with Terry? Played recent games with him? Read recent games?
I mean, I'm suspicious enough of grape that I really am not inclined to stick my head out for him in any way other than to say kill him third, not first, but I'd be happy to walk you through which posts I'm puzzling over still.
As for Terry, very few, and not in a very long time. I remember him being...very much more normal than this.
My biggest weakness at the moment is being out of touch with player meta, which seems to be a bigger part of what I do than I sometimes consciously recollect, From being super familiar with certain playstyles, who is good, who is bad, ruling out certain scenarios, noting deviations. Process of elimination, where meta is one of the biggest, gnarliest factors in the process.
So if my baseline is off, I'm way. way off. If my baseline is on target, I can solve day one. I *thought* I knew rsjt from past play enough to consider myself well calibrated on him...?
Also, Iso just gave me the creeps. Noting for later.
Terry I'm voting you because you have no opinions on anything as far as I can discern. Except the poor quality of your wagon. You were quick to vote KA and have been pushed a few things like apart from your certainty in jumping on Highroller that Az outlined, but I can't think of any reasons for anything you've done. You've also had no conviction to some of your pushes and bounced around. You're now expressing near certainty on me being scum on the evidence of my card saying target opponent and being a RB. That's some weak setup gaming and based on nowhere near full information.
I don't think anyone should really make decisions based off my claim one way or another. I think it has a few quirks that are obviously townie but like with such limited information it's not a good idea to try and draw conclusions based off it.
This post is blatantly wrong and self contradictory. It’s like saying I’ve done nothing but this, this, This, this and this.
I’m not voting you for flavor. I voted you for a bad vote far before you claimed.
Terry I'm voting you because you have no opinions on anything as far as I can discern. Except the poor quality of your wagon. You were quick to vote KA and have been pushed a few things like apart from your certainty in jumping on Highroller that Az outlined, but I can't think of any reasons for anything you've done. You've also had no conviction to some of your pushes and bounced around. You're now expressing near certainty on me being scum on the evidence of my card saying target opponent and being a RB. That's some weak setup gaming and based on nowhere near full information.
I don't think anyone should really make decisions based off my claim one way or another. I think it has a few quirks that are obviously townie but like with such limited information it's not a good idea to try and draw conclusions based off it.
This post is blatantly wrong and self contradictory. It’s like saying I’ve done nothing but this, this, This, this and this.
I’m not voting you for flavor. I voted you for a bad vote far before you claimed.
@terry: Don't you think it's weird that grape claimed roleblocker? Any scum would realise that would make them look back. They could have claimed the exact same role but as a doctor and not get as much suspicion. Who do you think we should lynch except grape?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy. Check out the Shop Thread
True you voted me when I ran you up out of OMGUS and are talking about the claim loudly because you're scum and don't really want to center the conversation on the vote.
Also why do people take qualifiers as contradictions... Like if Terry said I was scum for being mealy mouthed about him doing nothing rather than boldly declaring it that would make sense but calling a caveat a contradiction is just head scratching.
I claimed provable role. Does that not entertain you?
No.
Also, my experience is roleblocker is typically a town role. Am I wrong?
According to MAfiascum Wiki:
"Roleblockers have been known to be of either alignment, though Roleblocker is one of the most common Mafia power roles."
Now this isn't to say town can't be role blockers, but it's pretty common in scum.
Ok, I didn't actually know this. My experience was with the roleblocker being town.
In that case, Vote Grapefruit21. I'm presuming that the 3 mafia in this game all have roles, and if roleblocker is a common mafia role choice, then Grapefruit's claim does nothing to point him towards town or mafia, and his behavior has DEFINITELY pointed towards him being mafia.
I completely missed that the deadline was in "New Zeland" time. What schmuck uses New Zeland time? I have to subtract 17 hours to figure out the actual deadline?
No, dude, you add them. New Zealand is 17 hours ahead, not behind.
If he picks a Town, it's completely random if his role does anything at all (maybe not completely random, in as much as Highroller said he got a list to choose from. How long was this list?)
4 choices. I chose 2. It's why I believe his card claim.
Grape told highroller to stop divulging information in probably his first real post in the game. Me and rezombied had a fight about it. It wasn't a breadcrumb it was almost the whole bread.
Same question as I asked Grape, why would you assume that this would be enough of a hint to make me say, "Oh yeah, that's the guy who messaged me?"
See, here's what bothers me: Ganderin claimed a role that works along the lines of a typical role, but with the twist of incorporating the mechanics that are unique to this game. Grape is the second person to claim this. So we have three people who have claimed, 2/3 of whom claim typical roles with a mechanical twist, one of whom - me - has claimed only abilities unique to the mechanics of this game.
Which brings me to my next question: how many here are of the former category, and how many of the latter? Let's just keep it simple: WHO ELSE DOESN'T have a role that more-or-less corresponds to a typical town role? How many only have abilities unique to this game's mechanics, such as making goblins or putting things in graveyards?
Because if that's the case, how does saying,
My role cares about card types and I wouldn't be surprised if scum roles did too. As much as I want to talk about my card because it's one of my favorites and just sweet!
Constitute giving me a loaf of bread as opposed to a breadcrumb? If you have a role that is a normal role for a game of mafia, but with the twist of being restricted to card type, how does it make sense for you to assume that saying, "HEY! MY ROLE HAS TO DO WITH CARDTYPES!" gives you away as a hint? How would you know other roles don't have to do with card types? For all you know, that could be a substantial portion of the roles.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Because I waved a flag in your face saying my role cared about card types. Given that you got a pregame message from someone asking you to choose card types I thought you might have connected the dots, I wouldn't expect anyone else to figure it out. Regardless it isn't important because my goal wasn't to make you notice then and there, I believed what I was saying. Breadcrumbing was a useful side benefit.
I expect other roles care about card types. I don't know that they do for a fact. I suspect I'm the only one that gives another player a choice given that Fact or Fiction never got the ban hammer.
I'm not sure what you're asking about my breadcrumb. Did I think it was obviously me based on my call to not claim? No. But I thought there were decent odds you'd guess or at least suspect it was me.
I completely missed that the deadline was in "New Zeland" time. What schmuck uses New Zeland time? I have to subtract 17 hours to figure out the actual deadline?
No, dude, you add them. New Zealand is 17 hours ahead, not behind.
Oh sorry, I thought you meant subtract it from the current time. No, you're right, subtract it from the deadline.
Speaking of me being behind the times, has this ever happened to anyone? I uploaded a screenshot.
Anyway RB's are a common scum role. They are also commonly town in Role Madness games. Both sides usually need some form of blocking. The fact that I haven't been CC'd is a great look for me to be quite honest.
I completely missed that the deadline was in "New Zeland" time. What schmuck uses New Zeland time? I have to subtract 17 hours to figure out the actual deadline?
No, dude, you add them. New Zealand is 17 hours ahead, not behind.
Oh sorry, I thought you meant subtract it from the current time. No, you're right, subtract it from the deadline.
Speaking of me being behind the times, has this ever happened to anyone? I uploaded a screenshot.
Yeah the forum software is super janky. I don't know why it does that. For a while it was displaying posts out of order which made catching up a delightful mess.
@terry: Don't you think it's weird that grape claimed roleblocker? Any scum would realise that would make them look back. They could have claimed the exact same role but as a doctor and not get as much suspicion. Who do you think we should lynch except grape?
But Grape also should know that claiming role blocker was safer than claiming something else that someone could be
Terry, if you're scum: please don't use "most of you are bad" as a tactic. It makes the game worse and less fun, and it's not worth whatever benefit you might get from it for a single game. If you're town: please don't use "most of you are bad" when expressing frustration. I get frustration, but insulting others' play just spreads more frustration, and makes the game less fun, and won't help town win. In other words, no matter what your alignment, I am requesting that you please dial back the put-downs.
But yet, you still have not addressed the glaring issue with my wagon despite me asking you to several times.
What "but"? My request to keep the game fun is separate from any specific game actions.
Now, looking at those game actions as a separate train of thought: you keep calling things "glaring" and "obvious" and other such terms... but they're not. And using maximizing qualifiers doesn't change that. Why do you persist in this approach?
Anyway RB's are a common scum role. They are also commonly town in Role Madness games. Both sides usually need some form of blocking. The fact that I haven't been CC'd is a great look for me to be quite honest.
This feels scummy.
@vezok: Can you give something better than "not feeling"? More detailed, at least?
Anyway RB's are a common scum role. They are also commonly town in Role Madness games. Both sides usually need some form of blocking. The fact that I haven't been CC'd is a great look for me to be quite honest.
This feels scummy.
I'd be saying it if I was scum too (to bait out a CC) but it doesn't change the fact that I sat there free for the lynching, everyone checked in (except Bur and sort of Dan) and I wasn't CC'd despite it being an easy one to do if there was a town RB or equivalent out there. And scum wouldn't 1 for 1 here since they could just pile on without the CC and make up reasoning (close to deadline, didn't like my Terry vote, RB is a scum role).
@Terry How about instead of talking about my role you explain why my vote on you was bad.
Anyway RB's are a common scum role. They are also commonly town in Role Madness games. Both sides usually need some form of blocking. The fact that I haven't been CC'd is a great look for me to be quite honest.
This feels scummy.
@vezok: Can you give something better than "not feeling"? More detailed, at least?
Maybe.
Grape doesn't feel like scum. He is fighting his lynch and claimed a role that would mostly be -EV as a scum claim. His wagon also doesn't look like scum trying to save a body.
Terry is just doing nothing, but fighting his lynch and I just came out of a game with Albertino where he did the exact same thing and I was convinced he was scum. (he was town)
I'm just unconvinced on both of them. I'd rather lynch someone else, but I will vote one of them before the deadline. Probably the one with more votes on him.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy. Check out the Shop Thread
I feel like there has been reluctance/resistance to Grape's wagon, which makes me feel like we're on the right track.
@Mod: It's been four days since Bur last posted.
@Vezok: You didn't ask me, but I'm going to answer anyway: what Terry said. If Grape's a roleblocker, then he knows that (barring mod bastardry) there isn't another roleblocker, so it's safer than, say "doctor" or "jailer". And he may think that claiming it in a role madness game *might* be seen as possibly town enough to escape the noose. But for me it's another nail in the coffin, said coffin being comprised primarily of his behavior.
Terry, my last game with you was Pirates, back in March, so really not that long ago. Maybe 3-4 other times? Never recall you acting like this in any of those.
Terry, my last game with you was Pirates, back in March, so really not that long ago. Maybe 3-4 other times? Never recall you acting like this in any of those.
Acting like what?
And yes, if you could point out the posts from Grape that you're puzzling through, I'd appreciate it.
Anyway RB's are a common scum role. They are also commonly town in Role Madness games. Both sides usually need some form of blocking. The fact that I haven't been CC'd is a great look for me to be quite honest.
rofl what
if you're town why would scum 1-for-1 you when they could just kill you in the Night and not worry about it
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Anyway RB's are a common scum role. They are also commonly town in Role Madness games. Both sides usually need some form of blocking. The fact that I haven't been CC'd is a great look for me to be quite honest.
rofl what
if you're town why would scum 1-for-1 you when they could just kill you in the Night and not worry about it
or...just let you get lynched
This is not a town mindset.
That was literally my point. Scum would never CC here but townies almost always would (see Phantom Tollbooth or Arkham for recent games of people falling all over themselves to CC as town). So I'd say it's a pretty good data point that I'm town here.
@Cantrip I have no idea what your behavioral issues with me are, but RB's are commonly town in role madness games. 4 of the last 5 had town RB's or variants (Phantom Tollbooth had a delayer and Pirates had a jailer, Playstation had a straight RB that could turn into vig as did Zero Escape). I also feel like there is basically no resistance to my wagon. There has been basically no movement, minus Vez who has said he'll vote me, since the deadline extension. I feel like it's been decided and everyone is just twiddling their thumbs till the deadline. Which is frustrating.
I was going to ask someone to lay out in simple terms what the issues with GF are since I haven't felt any but clearly some people have, and then I vaguely remembered Iso doing something like that already, so I pulled his post and I'm making my comments in bold here:
I feel relatively confident saying that at least one of the people on the "Highroller is town for pushing the massclaim" momentum is scum. I'm leaning Grape after his most recent post, but I think I'd need to re-read to properly assess.
So, I read Grapefruit's posts in isolation and the way his reads and thought processes develop through the game don't seem entirely organic - I'm getting twinges of insight that his views are being shaped more by the momentum of the game rather than the occurrences therein. The indicator of this to me is that his posts read like he's establishing views and then working to justify them afterwards, rather than the other way around. It feels clunky and unnatural.
this reads like a bunch of gobblety-gook to me. Saying his reads don't feel "organic" is meaningless to me. And people's opinions are always shaped by the "momentum" of the game. And making posts that justify your views is the normal way of doing things. It seems to me that what you are actually trying to say is that his statements seem forced and/or insincere, and are not justified by what happened in the thread. This would be a great time to give some examples of what you see as that happening.
Relatedly, I don't really like that Grapefruit hasn't addressed my issues with his play (much in the same way I take issue with KA doing the same). I mean, I realize I was a bit vague, but that was because I'm not interested in generating quotewalls like the days of yore.
I don't know if you were referring to the above accusation post of gobblety-gook or not, but if you were then there was nothing for him to respond to in there. If you were referring to some other post in which you lay out your issues, then okay maybe.
No time today (tonight) will definitely have some time tomorrow and be around for the deadline.
On Bur; he's a shrug at this point. I liked his entrance but he's done nothing since. Not my first choice but would lynch him over no lynching. Probably will have to be lynched at some point.
@Highroller Reason I threw up my hands in frustration is you asked me what I thought townie responses from Rezombie would be. I gave you two different ones and you acted like the words I was putting in his mouth were my own.
@Az My first choice is Rezombie. I think he's reasonably scummy and lacks any town indicators I've seen. I know someone mentioned seeing some but I haven't noticed any. I also want to lynch KA and Terry but not as high a priority as Rez to me. KA's caginess is pinging me. It's not something I really remember him doing before this game. My read on Terry is stale but I really didn't like his entrance. His "I like what grape is doing, pushing me to get me engaged" read is just bizarre. Haven't had a chance to take your case in. I'll read it in the morning.
On highroller I wouldn't love him getting run up. I think he really believes the town should mass claim thing and that he did believe the random lynching wins the game thing too. And going for them as hard as he has would be such a weird all in as scum. It's not a lock town read but I just don't feel he's that scummy and have several people I'd lynch before him. I wouldn't hard defend him because my read isn't that strong but I definitely wouldn't be cheering.
@Cantrip I haven't had a chance to read his wall on Terry yet and don't have a firm read on him. Nothing immediately pinged me and apart from having me towards the bottom of his reads wall our reads were reasonably similar. Townish-null at this point. I should be able give you a more in depth answer when I wake up and actually read his wall. What do you make of him so far?
God, I want to lynch you.
This is a pretty strong indicator that Bur is scum if Grape is scum.So, I guess you didn't like this post? I really prefer when you say what you didn't like about it. There's nothing here that screams "scum" to me.
So, as you may be perceiving, I am not especially persuaded by this. Someone else want to lay out (in easy to read fashion, please) what they don't like about GF?
I'm slightly uncomfortable defending here in as much as it's not like I've got some super-strong Town read on GF. I just genuinely don't see where this wagon is coming from. I would much rather hit one of the lurkers at this point, Bur or Dan right now.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I did not think GF's post was an especially obvious breadcrumb. Maybe a teeny-tiny one if you sort of squint at it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Anyway RB's are a common scum role. They are also commonly town in Role Madness games. Both sides usually need some form of blocking. The fact that I haven't been CC'd is a great look for me to be quite honest.
rofl what
if you're town why would scum 1-for-1 you when they could just kill you in the Night and not worry about it
or...just let you get lynched
This is not a town mindset.
That was literally my point. Scum would never CC here but townies almost always would (see Phantom Tollbooth or Arkham for recent games of people falling all over themselves to CC as town). So I'd say it's a pretty good data point that I'm town here.
right let's ignore the fact that Roleblockers are usually scum
-
@Axelrod: Okay, I'm not going to quote all of Grape's posts and explain the context of what was going on in the game at the time and why that makes his processes seem inorganic. If you're not going back and reading Grape's posts in isolation with the context of what was going on in the game at the time, I'm not going to hold your hand and do it for you. That is your workload, and your responsibility. I don't have the time or the patience or the desire to even start going down that rabbit hole, so if you're not convinced, the onus, at this point, is on you to rectify that, especially since you haven't bothered putting forth the effort of even coming up with a better option like two or three days before the deadline.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Az: I’m a solid 3 as scum. I don’t fake reads well, and my “supportive” townplay (more questions for other people to feed off of as opposed to my using them to drive scumreads) doesn’t really generate a lot of credit beyond the opening days.
I don’t think the adjective choice/lack of “passion” is necessarily AI for Terry (his 5th post you’re referring to in 303). I feel like I come from a group of players that would reflect both sides of that spectrum adequately as all alignments. Would you say you have a strong grasp on his meta, or is this consistently AI for you?
Don’t feel like you need to dump your notes, but you’ve literally only demonstrated public effort on deciphering three individuals after your first two posts (which, from what I can see, ceased review at 188): Terry, GF and myself. Give me some thoughts on the rest of the game early Tomorrow. I’d say today, but I don’t think that’s productive given our proximity to the deadline and the momentum of the current wagons.
Something you can do relate to toDay, however, is respond to my thoughts on Terry’s meta below. Behaviorally, I don’t have issue with what you’re saying, but I’m willing to have meta outweigh it in this specific circumstance. I can further prove my work if desired.
---
@Iso I’m torn on Highroller’s 219. On one hand, the mindset behind this post reads as scumhunting: trying to make a multifaceted argument is pretty difficult when you know each of your points can be refuted (as scum). On the other hand, as others have pointed out, he’s reaching on a few points, and seems bloodthirsty. Those can be town indicative when you start tunneling, so I think it’s still net +town for that level of effort.
Why didn’t you like it?
Bur’s defeatism in 282 pings me as discouraged scum. He didn’t roll the role he wanted, and RL has been keeping him down. So, why put in effort?
Strongly agree with the Bur/Grape interaction. Seems like the perfect passing “interaction” for lazy review in the future.
What do you think about Vezok’s 450?
---
@Cantrip: I was considering the fake daykill as a “gotcha” moment. I would put Iso’s ISO of Iso within scum!Iso’s ISO range.
@GF: (310) So your first choice is rez. If you thought someone saw something towny about him, but he was one of your leading scumspects, why would you not ask for that to get clarified?
@Highroller What did GF’s claim do for you?
@KA: What hypocracy were you referring to in 264? And if you really think that Iso is intending to ask you questions, but isn’t giving you something to answer, why not give him something to work with? Do you think this increasing animosity is beneficial for the town?
Oh, you did this in 330. Better late than never..? I feel like Iso was being pretty clear on what he was wanting from you.
@Axel: Literally everything I can think of about you this game is “GF’s not scum,” theory and setup-based. Am I wrong?
Oh hey you did a thing in 533 WAIT IT’S THE SAME THING
---
Rez’s responses in 268 satisfy me.
My opinion on GF was pretty high, relatively speaking, until the 300s. 310, 346, 352 are all bad for a variety of reasons (fencesitting, flailing, trying to take the easy lynch out, “low hanging fruit” of both the individual [Az] and reasons for liking him). Claim does nothing. Saying I’ve done less than Bur is tilting.
I’m confident KA/Terry cannot be S/S after the page 8 interactions. I’m also confident that Terry’s frantic posting on pages 8/9 is identical to how he was behaving in Playstation when he was about to be mislynched. It’s following a very similar pattern, where I think he’s scummy for a variety of reasons, then he doubles down on his posting style and asks questions with the similar level of aggression (both constructively and otherwise). Not a behavioral fan prior to that.
KA/GF interactions (and KA’s reaction to GF’s claim), OTOH, seem to point towards a >rand S/S relationship. “Oh great, an excuse for me to unvote my scumbuddy and try to force a NL at deadline! It’s even got a bit of momentum, so I’ll just ride this CFD to the finish line.”
We should really not flavorgame.
I’ll probably spend tomorrow at work getting some better notes on pages 9-11. There assuredly needs to be more questions, but my brain is drained at current. Mom is home, and I may be cancelling a long weekend trip I had planned (homecoming in my neck of the woods), but I’ll definitely be here at deadline given it’s Friday at 9p.
---
Dan
Vezok (seriously, take this to the bank)
Iso
Cantrip (should be higher, I’m just paranoid after Phantom Tollbooth where I had him higher at this point of the game)
Highroller
TRSJT (maybe he’s just replicating that town game perfectly, but I HIGHLY doubt that is fake emotion)
Az (I won’t be naive and attempt to say I have a read on him at this point)
Bur (??)
Axel (?)
Anyway RB's are a common scum role. They are also commonly town in Role Madness games. Both sides usually need some form of blocking. The fact that I haven't been CC'd is a great look for me to be quite honest.
rofl what
if you're town why would scum 1-for-1 you when they could just kill you in the Night and not worry about it
or...just let you get lynched
This is not a town mindset.
That was literally my point. Scum would never CC here but townies almost always would (see Phantom Tollbooth or Arkham for recent games of people falling all over themselves to CC as town). So I'd say it's a pretty good data point that I'm town here.
right let's ignore the fact that Roleblockers are usually scum
And let's also ignore that they show up as town quite often, especially in role madness games like I cited. Like this game is. I'm not saying this is a clearing claim, it's obviously not, but it's also not a slam dunk RB=scum case.
KA’s hypocrisy on Cantrip’s read is transparently bad
So I asked "what hypocrisy?".
And if you really think that Iso is intending to ask you questions, but isn’t giving you something to answer, why not give him something to work with?
I don't think Iso is intending to ask me questions. I'm telling him that if he asks me questions I'll answer. What I think he wants is me to argue with him, which I don't want to do.
Do you think this increasing animosity is beneficial for the town?
I pretty much never think increasing animosity is beneficial for town.
Dan
Vezok (seriously, take this to the bank)
Iso
Cantrip (should be higher, I’m just paranoid after Phantom Tollbooth where I had him higher at this point of the game)
Your scum list you explain, but your town list doesn't have backing. You never really comment on vezok, but in your T/S list you appear to be putting him as a strong townread. Why?
Your last comment on Cantrip before this is "I don’t think the KA or Cantrip interaction really reflects well on either of them. KA’s hypocrisy on Cantrip’s read is transparently bad, and Cantrip (on top of not selling that well)’s “gotcha” just feels very out of character for him." When and why do you move from that to being near the top of your town list?
@Axel: I wish I could give you something concrete, but there's just been a general "off" feeling about many of Grape's posts. I'll see if I can find time tomorrow to iso him and try to pin it down. Sorry. I...might be willing to lynch Bur, but I don't like CFDs, so if that's the direction we're going to take, we should do that now. I'm more interested in lynching Grape, though, as I'd rather not run multiple people up to claim range if we already have scum. Not interested in lynching Dan, even before his catch up post.
@Dan: Nice catch up post. What specifically are you seeing in Iso that says "town". I haven't seen anything from him that says scum (except for possibly his recent "let's ignore the fact that roleblockers are usually scum" right after Grape pointed out all the recent town roleblockers), but I haven't seen anything explicitly town, either. A lot of confidence, but that's NAI coming from Iso. Also, that fake daykill was nowhere near a "gotcha".
I also agree with Dan's assessment of Terry, but I haven't iso'd Terry, either. Those two iso's will hopefully be my project tomorrow. But I'm off to bed for now.
Too many people are talking in very confident terms about me without giving any hard evidence. I don't like this one bit.
1 of highroller, Iso, and Cantrip is probably scum here. Gut says Cantrip but I don't have much. It's the way he's asked me a bunch of questions, seemed either satisfied with most (not the ones about my attentiveness I suppose) and then continuing to scum read me while not pointing to anything. We've interacted a ton this game and for him to just to express an "off" feeling doesn't seem right to me. Don't really have any thoughts of his being aligned or not with either Terry or Rez. Will try to look at that but don't expect to have time to do much before the deadline and I'm always dubious of that stuff before flips.
Iso just feels like Iso and I can't tell if this is him reading me wrong for the umpteenth time or if it's him roleplaying blustery confident Iso like he did in F&E.
@Grape: Can you explain what you were communicating to Bur in [url=http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/799971-banned-mafia-day-1-carde-diem?comment=68]68[/url]? I keep reading and rereading and it just doesn't make sense. While you're at it, will you explain why you voted Terry in [ulr=https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/799971-banned-mafia-day-1-carde-diem?comment=61]61[/url]?
@Az: I’m a solid 3 as scum. I don’t fake reads well, and my “supportive” townplay (more questions for other people to feed off of as opposed to my using them to drive scumreads) doesn’t really generate a lot of credit beyond the opening days.
I don’t think the adjective choice/lack of “passion” is necessarily AI for Terry (his 5th post you’re referring to in 303). I feel like I come from a group of players that would reflect both sides of that spectrum adequately as all alignments. Would you say you have a strong grasp on his meta, or is this consistently AI for you?
Don’t feel like you need to dump your notes, but you’ve literally only demonstrated public effort on deciphering three individuals after your first two posts (which, from what I can see, ceased review at 188): Terry, GF and myself. Give me some thoughts on the rest of the game early Tomorrow. I’d say today, but I don’t think that’s productive given our proximity to the deadline and the momentum of the current wagons.
Something you can do relate to toDay, however, is respond to my thoughts on Terry’s meta below. Behaviorally, I don’t have issue with what you’re saying, but I’m willing to have meta outweigh it in this specific circumstance. I can further prove my work if desired.
---
@Iso I’m torn on Highroller’s 219. On one hand, the mindset behind this post reads as scumhunting: trying to make a multifaceted argument is pretty difficult when you know each of your points can be refuted (as scum). On the other hand, as others have pointed out, he’s reaching on a few points, and seems bloodthirsty. Those can be town indicative when you start tunneling, so I think it’s still net +town for that level of effort.
Why didn’t you like it?
Bur’s defeatism in 282 pings me as discouraged scum. He didn’t roll the role he wanted, and RL has been keeping him down. So, why put in effort?
Strongly agree with the Bur/Grape interaction. Seems like the perfect passing “interaction” for lazy review in the future.
What do you think about Vezok’s 450?
---
@Cantrip: I was considering the fake daykill as a “gotcha” moment. I would put Iso’s ISO of Iso within scum!Iso’s ISO range.
@GF: (310) So your first choice is rez. If you thought someone saw something towny about him, but he was one of your leading scumspects, why would you not ask for that to get clarified?
@Highroller What did GF’s claim do for you?
@KA: What hypocracy were you referring to in 264? And if you really think that Iso is intending to ask you questions, but isn’t giving you something to answer, why not give him something to work with? Do you think this increasing animosity is beneficial for the town?
Oh, you did this in 330. Better late than never..? I feel like Iso was being pretty clear on what he was wanting from you.
@Axel: Literally everything I can think of about you this game is “GF’s not scum,” theory and setup-based. Am I wrong?
Oh hey you did a thing in 533 WAIT IT’S THE SAME THING
---
Rez’s responses in 268 satisfy me.
My opinion on GF was pretty high, relatively speaking, until the 300s. 310, 346, 352 are all bad for a variety of reasons (fencesitting, flailing, trying to take the easy lynch out, “low hanging fruit” of both the individual [Az] and reasons for liking him). Claim does nothing. Saying I’ve done less than Bur is tilting.
I’m confident KA/Terry cannot be S/S after the page 8 interactions. I’m also confident that Terry’s frantic posting on pages 8/9 is identical to how he was behaving in Playstation when he was about to be mislynched. It’s following a very similar pattern, where I think he’s scummy for a variety of reasons, then he doubles down on his posting style and asks questions with the similar level of aggression (both constructively and otherwise). Not a behavioral fan prior to that.
KA/GF interactions (and KA’s reaction to GF’s claim), OTOH, seem to point towards a >rand S/S relationship. “Oh great, an excuse for me to unvote my scumbuddy and try to force a NL at deadline! It’s even got a bit of momentum, so I’ll just ride this CFD to the finish line.”
We should really not flavorgame.
I’ll probably spend tomorrow at work getting some better notes on pages 9-11. There assuredly needs to be more questions, but my brain is drained at current. Mom is home, and I may be cancelling a long weekend trip I had planned (homecoming in my neck of the woods), but I’ll definitely be here at deadline given it’s Friday at 9p.
---
Dan
Vezok (seriously, take this to the bank)
Iso
Cantrip (should be higher, I’m just paranoid after Phantom Tollbooth where I had him higher at this point of the game)
Highroller
TRSJT (maybe he’s just replicating that town game perfectly, but I HIGHLY doubt that is fake emotion)
Az (I won’t be naive and attempt to say I have a read on him at this point)
Bur (??)
Axel (?)
Rez
GF
KA
I can't imagine someone reading me this game and thinking Rez and KA are my buddies. That's actually unbelievable.
Rez was my leading candidate. It was about his lack of engagement and curiosity. When he pointed out that Terry was doing the same I realized I preferred Terry. There is also [redacted] which I liked but want to see more of before commenting. So still a high lynch priority but safely behind Terry at this point.
@Terry which I think answers your question. Yes I still suspect you. I don't have the highest confidence on the read but it's definitely closer to 2/3 than 1/4.
@Cantrip I was replying to 64. Rez's push felt so forced and using my suggestion as the justification was especially weird as by the letter of what I said Vez didn't go against what I said. He went against the spirit of it but not the letter.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I don't think anyone should really make decisions based off my claim one way or another. I think it has a few quirks that are obviously townie but like with such limited information it's not a good idea to try and draw conclusions based off it.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I mean, I'm suspicious enough of grape that I really am not inclined to stick my head out for him in any way other than to say kill him third, not first, but I'd be happy to walk you through which posts I'm puzzling over still.
As for Terry, very few, and not in a very long time. I remember him being...very much more normal than this.
So if my baseline is off, I'm way. way off. If my baseline is on target, I can solve day one. I *thought* I knew rsjt from past play enough to consider myself well calibrated on him...?
Also, Iso just gave me the creeps. Noting for later.
I’m not voting you for flavor. I voted you for a bad vote far before you claimed.
I’m not voting you for flavor. I voted you for a bad vote far before you claimed.
I'm not feeling this wagon either.
@terry: Don't you think it's weird that grape claimed roleblocker? Any scum would realise that would make them look back. They could have claimed the exact same role but as a doctor and not get as much suspicion. Who do you think we should lynch except grape?
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
Also why do people take qualifiers as contradictions... Like if Terry said I was scum for being mealy mouthed about him doing nothing rather than boldly declaring it that would make sense but calling a caveat a contradiction is just head scratching.
This bothers me. How would I know that based on what you said?
Ok, I didn't actually know this. My experience was with the roleblocker being town.
In that case, Vote Grapefruit21. I'm presuming that the 3 mafia in this game all have roles, and if roleblocker is a common mafia role choice, then Grapefruit's claim does nothing to point him towards town or mafia, and his behavior has DEFINITELY pointed towards him being mafia.
No, dude, you add them. New Zealand is 17 hours ahead, not behind.
4 choices. I chose 2. It's why I believe his card claim.
Same question as I asked Grape, why would you assume that this would be enough of a hint to make me say, "Oh yeah, that's the guy who messaged me?"
See, here's what bothers me: Ganderin claimed a role that works along the lines of a typical role, but with the twist of incorporating the mechanics that are unique to this game. Grape is the second person to claim this. So we have three people who have claimed, 2/3 of whom claim typical roles with a mechanical twist, one of whom - me - has claimed only abilities unique to the mechanics of this game.
Which brings me to my next question: how many here are of the former category, and how many of the latter? Let's just keep it simple: WHO ELSE DOESN'T have a role that more-or-less corresponds to a typical town role? How many only have abilities unique to this game's mechanics, such as making goblins or putting things in graveyards?
Because if that's the case, how does saying,
Constitute giving me a loaf of bread as opposed to a breadcrumb? If you have a role that is a normal role for a game of mafia, but with the twist of being restricted to card type, how does it make sense for you to assume that saying, "HEY! MY ROLE HAS TO DO WITH CARDTYPES!" gives you away as a hint? How would you know other roles don't have to do with card types? For all you know, that could be a substantial portion of the roles.
Look, man, I just want to lynch Grape.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I expect other roles care about card types. I don't know that they do for a fact. I suspect I'm the only one that gives another player a choice given that Fact or Fiction never got the ban hammer.
I'm not sure what you're asking about my breadcrumb. Did I think it was obviously me based on my call to not claim? No. But I thought there were decent odds you'd guess or at least suspect it was me.
Speaking of me being behind the times, has this ever happened to anyone? I uploaded a screenshot.
Yeah the forum software is super janky. I don't know why it does that. For a while it was displaying posts out of order which made catching up a delightful mess.
Now, looking at those game actions as a separate train of thought: you keep calling things "glaring" and "obvious" and other such terms... but they're not. And using maximizing qualifiers doesn't change that. Why do you persist in this approach?
@vezok: Can you give something better than "not feeling"? More detailed, at least?
I'd be saying it if I was scum too (to bait out a CC) but it doesn't change the fact that I sat there free for the lynching, everyone checked in (except Bur and sort of Dan) and I wasn't CC'd despite it being an easy one to do if there was a town RB or equivalent out there. And scum wouldn't 1 for 1 here since they could just pile on without the CC and make up reasoning (close to deadline, didn't like my Terry vote, RB is a scum role).
@Terry How about instead of talking about my role you explain why my vote on you was bad.
Maybe.
Grape doesn't feel like scum. He is fighting his lynch and claimed a role that would mostly be -EV as a scum claim. His wagon also doesn't look like scum trying to save a body.
Terry is just doing nothing, but fighting his lynch and I just came out of a game with Albertino where he did the exact same thing and I was convinced he was scum. (he was town)
I'm just unconvinced on both of them. I'd rather lynch someone else, but I will vote one of them before the deadline. Probably the one with more votes on him.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
@Mod: It's been four days since Bur last posted.
@Vezok: You didn't ask me, but I'm going to answer anyway: what Terry said. If Grape's a roleblocker, then he knows that (barring mod bastardry) there isn't another roleblocker, so it's safer than, say "doctor" or "jailer". And he may think that claiming it in a role madness game *might* be seen as possibly town enough to escape the noose. But for me it's another nail in the coffin, said coffin being comprised primarily of his behavior.
And yes, if you could point out the posts from Grape that you're puzzling through, I'd appreciate it.
rofl what
if you're town why would scum 1-for-1 you when they could just kill you in the Night and not worry about it
or...just let you get lynched
This is not a town mindset.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
That was literally my point. Scum would never CC here but townies almost always would (see Phantom Tollbooth or Arkham for recent games of people falling all over themselves to CC as town). So I'd say it's a pretty good data point that I'm town here.
@Cantrip I have no idea what your behavioral issues with me are, but RB's are commonly town in role madness games. 4 of the last 5 had town RB's or variants (Phantom Tollbooth had a delayer and Pirates had a jailer, Playstation had a straight RB that could turn into vig as did Zero Escape). I also feel like there is basically no resistance to my wagon. There has been basically no movement, minus Vez who has said he'll vote me, since the deadline extension. I feel like it's been decided and everyone is just twiddling their thumbs till the deadline. Which is frustrating.
Don't know if I will be around for deadline. I prefer this instead of grapefruit.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
So, as you may be perceiving, I am not especially persuaded by this. Someone else want to lay out (in easy to read fashion, please) what they don't like about GF?
I'm slightly uncomfortable defending here in as much as it's not like I've got some super-strong Town read on GF. I just genuinely don't see where this wagon is coming from. I would much rather hit one of the lurkers at this point, Bur or Dan right now.
right let's ignore the fact that Roleblockers are usually scum
-
@Axelrod: Okay, I'm not going to quote all of Grape's posts and explain the context of what was going on in the game at the time and why that makes his processes seem inorganic. If you're not going back and reading Grape's posts in isolation with the context of what was going on in the game at the time, I'm not going to hold your hand and do it for you. That is your workload, and your responsibility. I don't have the time or the patience or the desire to even start going down that rabbit hole, so if you're not convinced, the onus, at this point, is on you to rectify that, especially since you haven't bothered putting forth the effort of even coming up with a better option like two or three days before the deadline.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Hi Bur,
When's the last time you lurked like this and were town?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I don’t think the adjective choice/lack of “passion” is necessarily AI for Terry (his 5th post you’re referring to in 303). I feel like I come from a group of players that would reflect both sides of that spectrum adequately as all alignments. Would you say you have a strong grasp on his meta, or is this consistently AI for you?
Don’t feel like you need to dump your notes, but you’ve literally only demonstrated public effort on deciphering three individuals after your first two posts (which, from what I can see, ceased review at 188): Terry, GF and myself. Give me some thoughts on the rest of the game early Tomorrow. I’d say today, but I don’t think that’s productive given our proximity to the deadline and the momentum of the current wagons.
Something you can do relate to toDay, however, is respond to my thoughts on Terry’s meta below. Behaviorally, I don’t have issue with what you’re saying, but I’m willing to have meta outweigh it in this specific circumstance. I can further prove my work if desired.
---
@Iso I’m torn on Highroller’s 219. On one hand, the mindset behind this post reads as scumhunting: trying to make a multifaceted argument is pretty difficult when you know each of your points can be refuted (as scum). On the other hand, as others have pointed out, he’s reaching on a few points, and seems bloodthirsty. Those can be town indicative when you start tunneling, so I think it’s still net +town for that level of effort.
Why didn’t you like it?
Bur’s defeatism in 282 pings me as discouraged scum. He didn’t roll the role he wanted, and RL has been keeping him down. So, why put in effort?
Strongly agree with the Bur/Grape interaction. Seems like the perfect passing “interaction” for lazy review in the future.
What do you think about Vezok’s 450?
---
@Cantrip: I was considering the fake daykill as a “gotcha” moment. I would put Iso’s ISO of Iso within scum!Iso’s ISO range.
@GF: (310) So your first choice is rez. If you thought someone saw something towny about him, but he was one of your leading scumspects, why would you not ask for that to get clarified?
@Highroller What did GF’s claim do for you?
@KA: What hypocracy were you referring to in 264? And if you really think that Iso is intending to ask you questions, but isn’t giving you something to answer, why not give him something to work with? Do you think this increasing animosity is beneficial for the town?
Oh, you did this in 330. Better late than never..? I feel like Iso was being pretty clear on what he was wanting from you.
@Axel: Literally everything I can think of about you this game is “GF’s not scum,” theory and setup-based. Am I wrong?
Oh hey you did a thing in 533 WAIT IT’S THE SAME THING
---
Rez’s responses in 268 satisfy me.
My opinion on GF was pretty high, relatively speaking, until the 300s. 310, 346, 352 are all bad for a variety of reasons (fencesitting, flailing, trying to take the easy lynch out, “low hanging fruit” of both the individual [Az] and reasons for liking him). Claim does nothing. Saying I’ve done less than Bur is tilting.
I’m confident KA/Terry cannot be S/S after the page 8 interactions. I’m also confident that Terry’s frantic posting on pages 8/9 is identical to how he was behaving in Playstation when he was about to be mislynched. It’s following a very similar pattern, where I think he’s scummy for a variety of reasons, then he doubles down on his posting style and asks questions with the similar level of aggression (both constructively and otherwise). Not a behavioral fan prior to that.
KA/GF interactions (and KA’s reaction to GF’s claim), OTOH, seem to point towards a >rand S/S relationship. “Oh great, an excuse for me to unvote my scumbuddy and try to force a NL at deadline! It’s even got a bit of momentum, so I’ll just ride this CFD to the finish line.”
We should really not flavorgame.
I’ll probably spend tomorrow at work getting some better notes on pages 9-11. There assuredly needs to be more questions, but my brain is drained at current. Mom is home, and I may be cancelling a long weekend trip I had planned (homecoming in my neck of the woods), but I’ll definitely be here at deadline given it’s Friday at 9p.
---
Dan
Vezok (seriously, take this to the bank)
Iso
Cantrip (should be higher, I’m just paranoid after Phantom Tollbooth where I had him higher at this point of the game)
Highroller
TRSJT (maybe he’s just replicating that town game perfectly, but I HIGHLY doubt that is fake emotion)
Az (I won’t be naive and attempt to say I have a read on him at this point)
Bur (??)
Axel (?)
Rez
GF
KA
And let's also ignore that they show up as town quite often, especially in role madness games like I cited. Like this game is. I'm not saying this is a clearing claim, it's obviously not, but it's also not a slam dunk RB=scum case.
So I asked "what hypocrisy?".
I don't think Iso is intending to ask me questions. I'm telling him that if he asks me questions I'll answer. What I think he wants is me to argue with him, which I don't want to do.
I pretty much never think increasing animosity is beneficial for town.
Your scum list you explain, but your town list doesn't have backing. You never really comment on vezok, but in your T/S list you appear to be putting him as a strong townread. Why?
Your last comment on Cantrip before this is "I don’t think the KA or Cantrip interaction really reflects well on either of them. KA’s hypocrisy on Cantrip’s read is transparently bad, and Cantrip (on top of not selling that well)’s “gotcha” just feels very out of character for him." When and why do you move from that to being near the top of your town list?
@Dan: Nice catch up post. What specifically are you seeing in Iso that says "town". I haven't seen anything from him that says scum (except for possibly his recent "let's ignore the fact that roleblockers are usually scum" right after Grape pointed out all the recent town roleblockers), but I haven't seen anything explicitly town, either. A lot of confidence, but that's NAI coming from Iso. Also, that fake daykill was nowhere near a "gotcha".
I also agree with Dan's assessment of Terry, but I haven't iso'd Terry, either. Those two iso's will hopefully be my project tomorrow. But I'm off to bed for now.
1 of highroller, Iso, and Cantrip is probably scum here. Gut says Cantrip but I don't have much. It's the way he's asked me a bunch of questions, seemed either satisfied with most (not the ones about my attentiveness I suppose) and then continuing to scum read me while not pointing to anything. We've interacted a ton this game and for him to just to express an "off" feeling doesn't seem right to me. Don't really have any thoughts of his being aligned or not with either Terry or Rez. Will try to look at that but don't expect to have time to do much before the deadline and I'm always dubious of that stuff before flips.
Iso just feels like Iso and I can't tell if this is him reading me wrong for the umpteenth time or if it's him roleplaying blustery confident Iso like he did in F&E.
68
61
I see the spelling error on the second one, but no idea why the first one didn't work.
I can't imagine someone reading me this game and thinking Rez and KA are my buddies. That's actually unbelievable.
Rez was my leading candidate. It was about his lack of engagement and curiosity. When he pointed out that Terry was doing the same I realized I preferred Terry. There is also [redacted] which I liked but want to see more of before commenting. So still a high lynch priority but safely behind Terry at this point.
@Terry which I think answers your question. Yes I still suspect you. I don't have the highest confidence on the read but it's definitely closer to 2/3 than 1/4.
@Cantrip I was replying to 64. Rez's push felt so forced and using my suggestion as the justification was especially weird as by the letter of what I said Vez didn't go against what I said. He went against the spirit of it but not the letter.