Before we start analyzing behavior I have one mechanical question for the game setup experts - will NL help us here to improve significatly our odds on getting the framer in exchange for one dead town?
Hmm doing the math it means 2 NK and 1 lynch at the worst case which leaves us with two people and we lose. Unlike now where we can do 2 lynches and 1 NK to win so it will take away one of our lynches which means its a bad idea. Can anyone verify this for me?
If it was a doctor role in question and not a miller, I'd say you are right. But going into dipole to fish out a miller? If I were scum, I wouldn't do that. In Riku's position, I'd only reveal if I really was town miller. In that case, I'd reveal as soon as I reached 3 votes. This would make me safe from the lynch and would give town the chance to hit scum, or would force scum to counter-claim and reveal themselves. Both are better options for town than miller going down in a lynch without revealing. However, as scum or non-miller town, I'd try to convince the rest of the players I'm innocent and not go down the miller rabbit hole at all.
Ehhhh. /mechanics but. If he's a wolf, magic bagging does nothing for him (well, without my defense here I guess, so lolme maybe?). He hardclaims miller to draw the counterclaim if he actually thinks he's going down. Softing miller doesn't really, like, help him as a wolf.
@Terry: I'd still like your GJ read. You seemed to agree with him pretty hard on Ruma and now you're, like, trying to fit him on wolf teams and stuff. Could you walk me through the thought process there?
I'm not sure what you don't get about it. I seemed to be pretty detailed, but I'll try to rephrase. I would say that your comment about me agreeing pretty hard with GJ on Ruma is VERY misrepresentative. I think that statement alone explains why you don't get my GJ read, because you didn't actually read it and just skimmed my list at the end. So try a bit harder. Now that I think about it I think that makes my decision easier when it comes to my read on you. We'll get to that later.
I kind of want to lynch Riki for the first sentence in his entire *****y post.
Yeah that’s a pretty scummy opening. “You all are scummy, lynch pool INFINITE!!!!”
I’m giving Silver a day or so then I’m moving my vote back if I’m not impressed. Abu slot was icky
The hyperbole at the beginning is like, pretty weird, and the only way I can really read it is as agreement with him, but if it was just lukewarm agreement I wouldn't really expect... this? And then the second half is like. What about Abu was icky? You just throw it out there like its a threat or something. And right after GJ delivered a similar threat. Lol.
I originally wanted to believe GJ was town because of his effort, but things kept pinging me, like his need to be team leader, his push for Vaimes who I still think is town, the Riku wagon, etc. Then I tried to think about who he could be partners with and none of it really lined up. Granted (as I stated in my last post), this is under the assumption that bussing Day 1 seems pretty dumb for scum. Yeah, I get it, bussing is a thing, but if I were scum in this game I would want to push two mislynches and be done with it instead of pussyfooting around with bussing.
I guess this is, like, approximately fine. Just going to file that post under "If Terry is a wolf, GJ is town because pocketing/echo" and move on to other players. I'd lynch Terry if it looked viable but, it doesn't really at the moment.
Vote: Terry just in case, though.
Next time, I iso Meteor. Think I'm just, not lynching Vaimes or GJ toDay, which gives me a pretty small pool of wolves, but they probably aren't wolves together so that leaves minimum 1 in [Terry / Tiger / Meteor]? That's probably a fine pool for D1.
I am kind of locking JT as town after reading this post. Silver was only voted by me at this stage, he is not under any danger to be lynched so there is no wine here or reason to bua, yet pushes JT. Why would Silver vote for his partner here? This is a mafia trying to mislynch town. Then there is the JT-Silver exchange right after which I really don't think is one between two mafias.
GJ fraustration seems so genuine, I feel strongly about him being town
Tiger is confirmed town.
It has to be Ruma for me. I don't even have another option for tomorrow if he really is town to be honest.
Why wouldn't I have framed Tiger if I was mafia, AS I SAID HE WAS MY TOWNIEST READ IN THE END BESIDES YOU METEOR. Someone was bound to check Tiger at that point. Ergo, if I were the framer, I would have framed Tiger. Basic reason, ffs.
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I am also called Riku. I tend to prefer being called riku.
Obviously, you're read on me has ******* changed, as I'm now the one you want to lynch rather than Joe. There's only one scum left, so if you've read someone else as townier than me, than you've changed your read of me to 'probably town' to 'scum'. Even if it's just a change in positioning of others, your read of me has changed. Please don't argue otherwise. It's disingenuous and scummy.
Even with all that, I still think a Joe Terry scum is pretty possible. Most scum tend to distance themselves from each other, force reads onto each other and all out try and get each other lynched occasionally. Nothing in the range of posts you've sent suggests to me anything that scum wouldn't do.
Other things that I am thinking.
- Being the first person on a train to get a town clear is scummy (That's you meteor)
- Framing the scummiest poster in the game cause that's an easy lynch is a pretty convenient thing (that's me)
- Oh, it's juuuust so convenient that a person who has less than optimal arguments is scum, isn't it? It's almost like Joe knew I was going to be red when investigated... Now, that could just mean he's a good player, or he framed me... Now, in defense of Joe, I'm not sure scum!Joe would make post #305 saying it's too easy.
With that, I think it could be you or Gentleman Johnny and not Joe. But I'm not sure of anything :') I'm not like Joe who can say he's got the game figured out at day 1 lynch
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I am also called Riku. I tend to prefer being called riku.
If you look at it relatively then yeah, you are right.
Thanks for replying but I will ask my questions again because I am not sure you understood them. Can you please explain why did you figure there would be checks on Tiger because me and him were your top 2?
Also, Please read #179 to #192 and tell me how likely you think JT is to be mafia with Silver based on that? I would like an answer with the % of him being town and % being mafia.
If it makes you feel better the game doesn't feel figured out to me either.
I target Meteor
Meteor targets Terry
Terry Targets me
Tiger targets the mystery box (doesn't hurt to have ambiguity)
If Riku flips town, we go into tomorrow with at least 1 mechanically cleared town. Does anyone see an issue with this, without explaining why I am doing what I am doing?
I targeted tiger as my goal was to get a green check on a target that was unlikely to be framed or night killed.
I need to think about this. I think lynching the red here is mechanically correct, and then tomorrow is a coin flip with one confirmed.
GJ, Who did you feel might be framed or NK and why?
Your plan is fine mechanically, but I rather lynch the most scummy person. If that person is Ruma and it goes together with the plan, great. But I'd rather try to finish it now than set up a better chance tomorrow.
Vaimes didn't claim, I wonder if the mafia realized he is the miller or it was a lucky guess.
I targeted tiger as my goal was to get a green check on a target that was unlikely to be framed or night killed.
I need to think about this. I think lynching the red here is mechanically correct, and then tomorrow is a coin flip with one confirmed.
GJ, Who did you feel might be framed or NK and why?
Your plan is fine mechanically, but I rather lynch the most scummy person. If that person is Ruma and it goes together with the plan, great. But I'd rather try to finish it now than set up a better chance tomorrow.
Vaimes didn't claim, I wonder if the mafia realized he is the miller or it was a lucky guess.
Reread my post. I am preparing if Riku flips wolf. I thought there was a real chance I get shot. If not me Vaimes. Two oldest players in this game. Riku/Terry I thought were decent frame targets. Tiger I thought was a safe pick. Unsure why no one targeted me.
I target Meteor
Meteor targets Terry
Terry Targets me
Tiger targets the mystery box (doesn't hurt to have ambiguity)
If Riku flips town, we go into tomorrow with at least 1 mechanically cleared town. Does anyone see an issue with this, without explaining why I am doing what I am doing?
While I like this idea, it seems strange that you are planning for Night 2. Noted... that being said, I'd be happy to be the one targeting you IF Ruma doesn't flip scum.
Dear Ruma,
On top of everything yesterday, here's why you're scummy starting with today:
Your first post starts off voting for me despite the fact that I just hammered the mafia godfather and had been pushing him and you as a team all Day 1. This just reeks of you being emotionally affected by the fact that I was personally responsible for your partners death. I can't even comprehend how a town player can have that initial reaction to me based on how yesterday panned out. You also start talking up about how you thought Silver was scum because of some pretty flimsy reasoning. Like begging for some credit. Then you say my hammer reeks of shade... correction... you saying me hammering scum is shade, when in fact what you are doing is shading me on the fact that I hammered scum. There is just so much wrong with this post.
Your second post of the day unvotes me because you saw the tide turn against you and your garbage push on me and then you try to make some sort of excuse that you always play this scummy. Frankly that doesn't make you any less scummy.
Then in another post you start talking about mafia having day chat. What does that have to do with my hammer at all? So you've unvoiced me but are still shading me big time. Then when Meteor tells you how absolute little sense me being scum with silver makes, you tell him to "Eff off Framer". Wow, a little over defensive don't you think?
Why wouldn't I have framed Tiger if I was mafia, AS I SAID HE WAS MY TOWNIEST READ IN THE END BESIDES YOU METEOR. Someone was bound to check Tiger at that point. Ergo, if I were the framer, I would have framed Tiger. Basic reason, ffs.
WHY WOULD YOU FRAME YOUR TOWNIEST READ!? It's pretty obvious you framed me and were hoping someone had checked me when you voted me at the start of the day.
You spent the entire hammer saying you had the game locked as me and silver being wrong.
Youw were shading me. Oh, but who cares right, its not like you can be wrong.
Go, reassess. Please. Youre scumreading me for actions I do as town. I sent my games for a reason.
But no point in arguing with scum/towm that refuses to reassess, I guess.
I hammered Silver, he was scum. Two people have red on you. WTF else am I supposed to do. There's absolutely zero indication that you are town. Your gameplay is scummy, your interaction with silver was scummy, your vote on me at the start of day 2 was scummy, TWO people got reds on you (Confirmed town and me, who I also know is town). Me calling you scum, who I've been scum reading AND voting most of the first day is NOT shading.
You really were the scum. NOW PEOPLE, YOU CAN EITHER LYNCH ME, BE WRONG, AND THEN work out the scum, or you can actually read me as town for once.
Go, actually pay attention to my scum meta. Do you know what yoill find? I am the biggest acaredy cat as mafia. Ill be complacent, wont stir *****, will neutral read EVERYONE,and just quite literally try and stay out of attention. Jusw what about my game this game readd like my scum meta, huh¿
Oh, lets continue:
Town Actions:
- Vote switching
- Re-evaluating reads
-QUESTIONING OTHERS ACTIONS (JOES HAMMER IS SCUMMY WITH GAMESOLVED, YES THAT [b]IS[/B] SHADE, GO ACTUALLY READ HIS POST.)
DAYCHAT MEANS YOU CANT READ ANYTHING INTO THE HAMMER AS TOWNTELL, AS HIS PARTNER COULD HAVE TOLD HIM TO HAMMER. PRETTY EASY TO WORK THAT ONE OUT. SO DEFENDING HIM FOR THAT IS GIVING HIM DEFENSE. FAIRLY SURE HIS PARTNER ORGANISED IT WITHH HIM.
NO *****, DEFENSIVE. I DOMT LIKE BEING LYNCHED. THIS IS A TOWN TELL FOR ME. I CANT HELP IT.
I wasnt confidant about it before, but I am. Not understsanding why day chat is important? Please, thats scum trying to distract you from the trail.
Meteor, before you asked me about the percentages?
From those posts, I had sround 60% scum chance.
From his last post, Im pushing it yo around 85% to 90%
[B]vote:StinkyJoe[b]
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I am also called Riku. I tend to prefer being called riku.
You really were the scum. NOW PEOPLE, YOU CAN EITHER LYNCH ME, BE WRONG, AND THEN work out the scum, or you can actually read me as town for once.
Go, actually pay attention to my scum meta. Do you know what yoill find? I am the biggest acaredy cat as mafia. Ill be complacent, wont stir *****, will neutral read EVERYONE,and just quite literally try and stay out of attention. Jusw what about my game this game readd like my scum meta, huh¿
Oh, lets continue:
Town Actions:
- Vote switching
- Re-evaluating reads
-QUESTIONING OTHERS ACTIONS (JOES HAMMER IS SCUMMY WITH GAMESOLVED, YES THAT [b]IS[/B] SHADE, GO ACTUALLY READ HIS POST.)
DAYCHAT MEANS YOU CANT READ ANYTHING INTO THE HAMMER AS TOWNTELL, AS HIS PARTNER COULD HAVE TOLD HIM TO HAMMER. PRETTY EASY TO WORK THAT ONE OUT. SO DEFENDING HIM FOR THAT IS GIVING HIM DEFENSE. FAIRLY SURE HIS PARTNER ORGANISED IT WITHH HIM.
NO *****, DEFENSIVE. I DOMT LIKE BEING LYNCHED. THIS IS A TOWN TELL FOR ME. I CANT HELP IT.
I wasnt confidant about it before, but I am. Not understsanding why day chat is important? Please, thats scum trying to distract you from the trail.
Meteor, before you asked me about the percentages?
From those posts, I had sround 60% scum chance.
From his last post, Im pushing it yo around 85% to 90%
[B]vote:StinkyJoe[b]
Self meta is worthless. Also, nice omgus vote. You should have just stuck with voting me for hammering the scum godfather instead of you, that’s more believable.
I did not Vote you for voting the ******* godfather, Joe.
"I wish I could do this on anything but my cell phone, but here we go. Ruma is super scummy, see tigers last point. Both ruma and silvers votes on each other were so weak and reluctant. I could go through this thread and pick out 100 scum tells from silver. Just look at his vote on Ruma, seems so forced, but then the next post he makes is like oh I’m only voting him out of self preservation. Oh please. Scum team locked in. I’m arresting you and you can hang yourself in the slammer."
I voted for the shade this setup for the next day -_- If you guys want to ignore this, then be my guest. But this is a scummy hammer ffs.
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I am also called Riku. I tend to prefer being called riku.
Read my whole iso day 1. I was doing that all day. Look at me on Abu before silver even replaces in.
That's a scum tactic. Good scum read there partner as pure scum or pure town, because neutral reads are bad for scum. And Abu was a liability for scum at that point, so it's not a defense.
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I am also called Riku. I tend to prefer being called riku.
Jesus, if I was scum, I woulda taken the Day 1 lynch. Because I would be a MASSIVE Liability. Like, holy *****, why would I let the better player die if I was scum? It just makes no ******* sense.
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I am also called Riku. I tend to prefer being called riku.
Read my whole iso day 1. I was doing that all day. Look at me on Abu before silver even replaces in.
That's a scum tactic. Good scum read there partner as pure scum or pure town, because neutral reads are bad for scum. And Abu was a liability for scum at that point, so it's not a defense.
Are you kidding? scum love staying neutral on people so they can vote either way. I’m done arguing with you, you make no sense to me.
Jesus, if I was scum, I woulda taken the Day 1 lynch. Because I would be a MASSIVE Liability. Like, holy *****, why would I let the better player die if I was scum? It just makes no ******* sense.
Didn't you do that in #210 though?
The thing that worries me most out of anything is the change of attitude. You are so much more defensive and your mindset is different now compared to when pressured at Day 1. As a cop, I don't see an explanation for that change, since the gamestate is better after lynching the godfather. It makes much more sense if you are mafia that has to stay alive to not lose the game.
However, I am still not sure if your replies are genuine town or desperate mafia, and I feel we have to do our due dilligence before deciding the lynch. We have two great tools we haven't used yet: Voting analysis and Silver interactions analysis. If anyone volunteers to do one of those I would take the other, but take into consideration I only done this once before so not exactly experienced in this.
Another thing that worries me about your mindset is the contrast between the case where I moved from you to Silver you read of me jumped from mafia to town but when JT did the same at the hammer you attacked him and voted him at the first post of the day. Thats a huge turn and the "GAMELOCK" annoyance is not nearly enough to explain it.
However it would mean that I was right (almost) all along and this never happens lol but seriously it would explain the push on me on Day1.
Another thing that worries me about your mindset is the contrast between the case where I moved from you to Silver you read of me jumped from mafia to town but when JT did the same at the hammer you attacked him and voted him at the first post of the day. Thats a huge turn and the "GAMELOCK" annoyance is not nearly enough to explain it.
However it would mean that I was right (almost) all along and this never happens lol but seriously it would explain the push on me on Day1.
I don't think you understand just how much I hate that kind of attitude. I literally turn murderous when anyone claims to have 'gamesolved' and refuse to consider any other point. But, sure, take my actions now as scum action, how exactly do you think I, as scum, think it would help me out? Let me clear it up for you: There's absolutely now way I would think this helps me as scum. I even mentioned earlier that town are more likely to be defensive
But sure, I don't care about being lynched anymore. I want you guys to assume I'm town and lynch me, but consider who is scum. I'm expecting to be lynched, so stop thinking I'm being defensive when I'm trying to get you guys to do some analysis so you can deal with the aftermath easier -_-
Cop 1 investigates Cop 3 and Cop 3 investigates Cop 1 -- BAD RESULT
Cop 3 investigates Framer, and cop 1 investigates Cop 3 -- BAD RESULT
I have been framed as I am the easy target, meaning they can go into this result - Tiger has to die as he can clear someone else. They want me dead so there is one less cop in the game, because it makes it easier for them. But don't assume it's a great thing that Tiger is confirmed. It means he has a guaranteed death during the night. I'm defensive because I don't want the worst outcome to happen. Which is what I'm trying to demonstrate. If you lynch me, and find out I am not scum, what are you going to do, huh? We won't have our confirmed town anymore because MAFIA HAS TO KILL HIM. So, I want you all to assume 'we're lynching Rumanshi' and it'll go to another day, okay? How about we actually do this, rather than go all RUMANSHI HAS TO DIE BECAUSE THERE'S NO OTHER EXPLANATION FOR HIS SUB-OPTIMAL REASONINGS'
Stop being so focused on being right, and actually look into another solution to this game. I'm defensive because I don't want you guys to end up in the worst possible situation: Tiger dies, I die, two cops and 1 framer left. THAT WILL BE BAD.
I don't want you guys to end up screwing things over because I'm not the greatest at explaining myself. So yeah. Look at what Vaimes had to say and re-evaluate.
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I am also called Riku. I tend to prefer being called riku.
I need to reread as well, but considering Vaimes had me as his top wolf read, you will forgive me if I don't give his read on you any credit at all.
Also, saying "I do this as town, don't do this as wolf" from my experience, more or less comes from a wolf. Or, you are admitting that you purposefully throw your wolf game to be townie since you are clearly self aware of your meta.
I targeted tiger as my goal was to get a green check on a target that was unlikely to be framed or night killed.
I need to think about this. I think lynching the red here is mechanically correct, and then tomorrow is a coin flip with one confirmed.
Ummm guys? I just noticed a scumslip here. Does anyone see themselves writing this sentence the way GJ did if they are town? Even if I came up with this plan, I would have never written it like that. GJ brain here knows there is gonna be a tomorrow if they lynch Ruma and he doesn't even notice that he needs to pretend there MIGHT be a tomorrow in this case instead of moving on to the next day already as a given. Am I crazy here? Notice how he immediately corrects himself in the next post trying to cover for it. I mean tomorrow is always gonna be a coin flip no matter if we lynch Ruma or not as long as we make sure we target different players, so it's not like it only happens if we lynch the red that made it so important to stress out.
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My vote is in spirit on Ruma until all claims are on the table.
I guess great mind think alike didn't help in this case :|
I'm conf town, Ruma was set up or scum.
Joe, if you went and read my previous games you'd know that these posts are completely normal for me.
Before we start analyzing behavior I have one mechanical question for the game setup experts - will NL help us here to improve significatly our odds on getting the framer in exchange for one dead town?
@Ruma what made you choose JT over GJ in #288?
A bit of annoyance at his 'GAMELOCKED' during his hammer (This kind of thinking makes me puke), a bit of not trusting him.
To those saying it would be unlikely for Scum!Joe to hammer like that, refer to OP: Mafia had daychat day 1.
I am kind of locking JT as town after reading this post. Silver was only voted by me at this stage, he is not under any danger to be lynched so there is no wine here or reason to bua, yet pushes JT. Why would Silver vote for his partner here? This is a mafia trying to mislynch town. Then there is the JT-Silver exchange right after which I really don't think is one between two mafias.
GJ fraustration seems so genuine, I feel strongly about him being town
Tiger is confirmed town.
It has to be Ruma for me. I don't even have another option for tomorrow if he really is town to be honest.
**** off, framer.
Meh, could be town paranoid. Still a pissy excuse there 'Why would Silver push for his partner there'? So he could push for someone else later.
Meteor, Gentleman Johnny or Joe Terry are the scum.
I dislike Meteors change in read on me due to a post from Silver, but that's probably not going to help you.
Tiger is most likely going to be the Nightkill as he is confirmed town, meaning Framing won't help.
After this lynch, it'll probably be:
Meteor,
Gentleman Johnny,
Joe Terry,
So either look into me without the scum bias, or look into those while I do so as well.
Can you please explain why did you figure there would be checks on Tiger because me and him were your top 2?
Also, Please read #179 to #192 and tell me how likely you think JT is to be mafia with Silver based on that?
My read on you hasn't changed at all.. only my read on JT did..
Obviously, you're read on me has ******* changed, as I'm now the one you want to lynch rather than Joe. There's only one scum left, so if you've read someone else as townier than me, than you've changed your read of me to 'probably town' to 'scum'. Even if it's just a change in positioning of others, your read of me has changed. Please don't argue otherwise. It's disingenuous and scummy.
Even with all that, I still think a Joe Terry scum is pretty possible. Most scum tend to distance themselves from each other, force reads onto each other and all out try and get each other lynched occasionally. Nothing in the range of posts you've sent suggests to me anything that scum wouldn't do.
Other things that I am thinking.
- Being the first person on a train to get a town clear is scummy (That's you meteor)
- Framing the scummiest poster in the game cause that's an easy lynch is a pretty convenient thing (that's me)
- Oh, it's juuuust so convenient that a person who has less than optimal arguments is scum, isn't it? It's almost like Joe knew I was going to be red when investigated... Now, that could just mean he's a good player, or he framed me... Now, in defense of Joe, I'm not sure scum!Joe would make post #305 saying it's too easy.
With that, I think it could be you or Gentleman Johnny and not Joe. But I'm not sure of anything :') I'm not like Joe who can say he's got the game figured out at day 1 lynch
Thanks for replying but I will ask my questions again because I am not sure you understood them. Can you please explain why did you figure there would be checks on Tiger because me and him were your top 2?
Also, Please read #179 to #192 and tell me how likely you think JT is to be mafia with Silver based on that? I would like an answer with the % of him being town and % being mafia.
If it makes you feel better the game doesn't feel figured out to me either.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I targeted tiger as my goal was to get a green check on a target that was unlikely to be framed or night killed.
I need to think about this. I think lynching the red here is mechanically correct, and then tomorrow is a coin flip with one confirmed.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I target Meteor
Meteor targets Terry
Terry Targets me
Tiger targets the mystery box (doesn't hurt to have ambiguity)
If Riku flips town, we go into tomorrow with at least 1 mechanically cleared town. Does anyone see an issue with this, without explaining why I am doing what I am doing?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
GJ, Who did you feel might be framed or NK and why?
Your plan is fine mechanically, but I rather lynch the most scummy person. If that person is Ruma and it goes together with the plan, great. But I'd rather try to finish it now than set up a better chance tomorrow.
Vaimes didn't claim, I wonder if the mafia realized he is the miller or it was a lucky guess.
Reread my post. I am preparing if Riku flips wolf. I thought there was a real chance I get shot. If not me Vaimes. Two oldest players in this game. Riku/Terry I thought were decent frame targets. Tiger I thought was a safe pick. Unsure why no one targeted me.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
On top of everything yesterday, here's why you're scummy starting with today:
Your first post starts off voting for me despite the fact that I just hammered the mafia godfather and had been pushing him and you as a team all Day 1. This just reeks of you being emotionally affected by the fact that I was personally responsible for your partners death. I can't even comprehend how a town player can have that initial reaction to me based on how yesterday panned out. You also start talking up about how you thought Silver was scum because of some pretty flimsy reasoning. Like begging for some credit. Then you say my hammer reeks of shade... correction... you saying me hammering scum is shade, when in fact what you are doing is shading me on the fact that I hammered scum. There is just so much wrong with this post.
Your second post of the day unvotes me because you saw the tide turn against you and your garbage push on me and then you try to make some sort of excuse that you always play this scummy. Frankly that doesn't make you any less scummy.
Then in another post you start talking about mafia having day chat. What does that have to do with my hammer at all? So you've unvoiced me but are still shading me big time. Then when Meteor tells you how absolute little sense me being scum with silver makes, you tell him to "Eff off Framer". Wow, a little over defensive don't you think?
WHY WOULD YOU FRAME YOUR TOWNIEST READ!? It's pretty obvious you framed me and were hoping someone had checked me when you voted me at the start of the day.
VOTE: Ruma
You spent the entire hammer saying you had the game locked as me and silver being wrong.
Youw were shading me. Oh, but who cares right, its not like you can be wrong.
Go, reassess. Please. Youre scumreading me for actions I do as town. I sent my games for a reason.
But no point in arguing with scum/towm that refuses to reassess, I guess.
You really were the scum. NOW PEOPLE, YOU CAN EITHER LYNCH ME, BE WRONG, AND THEN work out the scum, or you can actually read me as town for once.
Go, actually pay attention to my scum meta. Do you know what yoill find? I am the biggest acaredy cat as mafia. Ill be complacent, wont stir *****, will neutral read EVERYONE,and just quite literally try and stay out of attention. Jusw what about my game this game readd like my scum meta, huh¿
Oh, lets continue:
Town Actions:
- Vote switching
- Re-evaluating reads
-QUESTIONING OTHERS ACTIONS (JOES HAMMER IS SCUMMY WITH GAMESOLVED, YES THAT [b]IS[/B] SHADE, GO ACTUALLY READ HIS POST.)
DAYCHAT MEANS YOU CANT READ ANYTHING INTO THE HAMMER AS TOWNTELL, AS HIS PARTNER COULD HAVE TOLD HIM TO HAMMER. PRETTY EASY TO WORK THAT ONE OUT. SO DEFENDING HIM FOR THAT IS GIVING HIM DEFENSE. FAIRLY SURE HIS PARTNER ORGANISED IT WITHH HIM.
NO *****, DEFENSIVE. I DOMT LIKE BEING LYNCHED. THIS IS A TOWN TELL FOR ME. I CANT HELP IT.
I wasnt confidant about it before, but I am. Not understsanding why day chat is important? Please, thats scum trying to distract you from the trail.
Meteor, before you asked me about the percentages?
From those posts, I had sround 60% scum chance.
From his last post, Im pushing it yo around 85% to 90%
[B]vote:StinkyJoe[b]
I am being realistic. If Riku is the last wolf, the game is over today anyway. We won't tell until night.
I want a plan prepared if we don't win today.
Me/Terry/Meteor were not investigated. Hm.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
"I wish I could do this on anything but my cell phone, but here we go. Ruma is super scummy, see tigers last point. Both ruma and silvers votes on each other were so weak and reluctant. I could go through this thread and pick out 100 scum tells from silver. Just look at his vote on Ruma, seems so forced, but then the next post he makes is like oh I’m only voting him out of self preservation. Oh please. Scum team locked in. I’m arresting you and you can hang yourself in the slammer."
I voted for the shade this setup for the next day -_- If you guys want to ignore this, then be my guest. But this is a scummy hammer ffs.
That's a scum tactic. Good scum read there partner as pure scum or pure town, because neutral reads are bad for scum. And Abu was a liability for scum at that point, so it's not a defense.
Didn't you do that in #210 though?
The thing that worries me most out of anything is the change of attitude. You are so much more defensive and your mindset is different now compared to when pressured at Day 1. As a cop, I don't see an explanation for that change, since the gamestate is better after lynching the godfather. It makes much more sense if you are mafia that has to stay alive to not lose the game.
However, I am still not sure if your replies are genuine town or desperate mafia, and I feel we have to do our due dilligence before deciding the lynch. We have two great tools we haven't used yet: Voting analysis and Silver interactions analysis. If anyone volunteers to do one of those I would take the other, but take into consideration I only done this once before so not exactly experienced in this.
However it would mean that I was right (almost) all along and this never happens lol but seriously it would explain the push on me on Day1.
I don't think you understand just how much I hate that kind of attitude. I literally turn murderous when anyone claims to have 'gamesolved' and refuse to consider any other point. But, sure, take my actions now as scum action, how exactly do you think I, as scum, think it would help me out? Let me clear it up for you: There's absolutely now way I would think this helps me as scum. I even mentioned earlier that town are more likely to be defensive
But sure, I don't care about being lynched anymore. I want you guys to assume I'm town and lynch me, but consider who is scum. I'm expecting to be lynched, so stop thinking I'm being defensive when I'm trying to get you guys to do some analysis so you can deal with the aftermath easier -_-
HERE WE GO:
--> LYNCH RUMANSHI
3 you are cops, 1 of you is framer.
Framer - Kills Tiger, Frames Cop 3
2 cops left, 1 framer left.
Cop 1 investigates Framer and Cop 3 investigates cop 1 -- OPTIMAL SOLUTION
Cop 1 investigates Cop 3 and Cop 3 investigates Cop 1 -- BAD RESULT
Cop 3 investigates Framer, and cop 1 investigates Cop 3 -- BAD RESULT
I have been framed as I am the easy target, meaning they can go into this result - Tiger has to die as he can clear someone else. They want me dead so there is one less cop in the game, because it makes it easier for them. But don't assume it's a great thing that Tiger is confirmed. It means he has a guaranteed death during the night. I'm defensive because I don't want the worst outcome to happen. Which is what I'm trying to demonstrate. If you lynch me, and find out I am not scum, what are you going to do, huh? We won't have our confirmed town anymore because MAFIA HAS TO KILL HIM. So, I want you all to assume 'we're lynching Rumanshi' and it'll go to another day, okay? How about we actually do this, rather than go all RUMANSHI HAS TO DIE BECAUSE THERE'S NO OTHER EXPLANATION FOR HIS SUB-OPTIMAL REASONINGS'
But, maybe I'm just... bad?
Go read Vaimes read on me
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/799373-unreliable-cops-day-2-the-sound-of-the-police?comment=241
Stop being so focused on being right, and actually look into another solution to this game. I'm defensive because I don't want you guys to end up in the worst possible situation: Tiger dies, I die, two cops and 1 framer left. THAT WILL BE BAD.
I don't want you guys to end up screwing things over because I'm not the greatest at explaining myself. So yeah. Look at what Vaimes had to say and re-evaluate.
Also, saying "I do this as town, don't do this as wolf" from my experience, more or less comes from a wolf. Or, you are admitting that you purposefully throw your wolf game to be townie since you are clearly self aware of your meta.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I thought about it but decided you aren't. Reading your posts you seem very insightful, at least when you decide to be.
Can you reply to the inconsistency pointed here by Tiger - What made you switch him from most mafia to most town?
Tell me how to ISO yours posts in those games and I will, but I'm not gonna read the whole games.
https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1706316
https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1728969&show=1750
Ummm guys? I just noticed a scumslip here. Does anyone see themselves writing this sentence the way GJ did if they are town? Even if I came up with this plan, I would have never written it like that. GJ brain here knows there is gonna be a tomorrow if they lynch Ruma and he doesn't even notice that he needs to pretend there MIGHT be a tomorrow in this case instead of moving on to the next day already as a given. Am I crazy here? Notice how he immediately corrects himself in the next post trying to cover for it. I mean tomorrow is always gonna be a coin flip no matter if we lynch Ruma or not as long as we make sure we target different players, so it's not like it only happens if we lynch the red that made it so important to stress out.