It felt to me like he proposed a plan just because it would seem towny to do so. If he really gave that much effort to come with a plan, I would imagine he would also be interested in advancing discussions which he isn't so far.
Anyway for me the top2 candidates to lynch are Riku and Abu so far. I would be willing to settle on Vaimes or JoeTerry. It's really hard to get any solid reads with the low content made so far so I am still hoping for more discussions before I will place my vote.
I mean, that's basically the game apart from me, you, and tiger.
All I know so far is that I don't want to lynch you or GJ right now. And I don't want to lynch StinkyJoe until we see if it's a slot that needs replacement or just a player deciding not to engage.
I agree with GJ on this one. This town is not nearly active enough.
Anyway for me the top2 candidates to lynch are Riku and Abu so far. I would be willing to settle on Vaimes or JoeTerry. It's really hard to get any solid reads with the low content made so far so I am still hoping for more discussions before I will place my vote.
I mean, that's basically the game apart from me, you, and tiger.
Because I am not getting nearly enough town motivation from almost all the players here, reading their posts.
No offense but even you had some comments that made me go :/ but at least you have some comments that made me feel you are town.
Riku we talked about.
Abu doesn't give enough focus reading the posts like I would expect a townie would.
Vaimes posts seems passive detached from the game (even before the sickness), different from the town Vaimes I know.
No idea whats going on with JoeTerry. I also PMd Tom about it, not reply so far.
All I know so far is that I don't want to lynch you or GJ right now. And I don't want to lynch StinkyJoe until we see if it's a slot that needs replacement or just a player deciding not to engage.
I agree with GJ on this one. This town is not nearly active enough.
Look at you two agreeing with each other, I love it.
Anyway for me the top2 candidates to lynch are Riku and Abu so far. I would be willing to settle on Vaimes or JoeTerry. It's really hard to get any solid reads with the low content made so far so I am still hoping for more discussions before I will place my vote.
Found the scum.
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I am also called Riku. I tend to prefer being called riku.
I don't see how it would help mafia more than town. If we tell who we checked, but do not tell the results, mafia HAS to claim who they checked without knowing who is the miller. The miller can therefore act as a scum trap. If player A claims to have checked player X, and then players B and C also claim to have checked player X, we can then use a first in-last out (or completely random) system of claiming WHAT the result was. If we force mafia to claim the result first, we might catch them in a lie. We prevent them from piggy-backing on another player's claim.
Now please explain how this would benefit the mafia, as I do not see it.
Ok, I’m here. This was my first thought regarding the miller. I’m jealous that I’m not the Miller.
Haha! That’s the funsies part! Maybe I am the Miller! Haha! Ok now RVS...
My initial knee-jerk reaction to the setup was “ignore Cop results unless there’s a mechanical contradiction.”
Also that the Miller is basically a townfirm and shouldn’t claim D1 unless they’re about to be lynched, otherwise the NK gives no info.
Unless tom changes his mind, the Godfather can return a guilty result if targeted by the Framer, which further cements my feelings of “ignore Cop results unless contradiction occurs.”
So basically let’s play this D1 as if it were mountainous, and lynch people who don’t genuinely care about a town victory.
And vote JT for funsies.
I don't think we should completely ignore cop results, if two cops get "guilty" results, we could narrow down the Framer, assuming none of the two targeted players is Miller.
My initial knee-jerk reaction to the setup was “ignore Cop results unless there’s a mechanical contradiction.”
Also that the Miller is basically a townfirm and shouldn’t claim D1 unless they’re about to be lynched, otherwise the NK gives no info.
Unless tom changes his mind, the Godfather can return a guilty result if targeted by the Framer, which further cements my feelings of “ignore Cop results unless contradiction occurs.”
So basically let’s play this D1 as if it were mountainous, and lynch people who don’t genuinely care about a town victory.
And vote JT for funsies.
I don't think we should completely ignore cop results, if two cops get "guilty" results, we could narrow down the Framer, assuming none of the two targeted players is Miller.
Whats the framer do again?
Never mind. I’m dumb. It was hidden in the spoiler block
Ok, I’m caught up. Don’t have time to go too deep into making reads off a page and a half, but hypothetically if everyone targeted the same person at night, wouldn’t we be able to break this game, even if the framer interferes?
It felt to me like he proposed a plan just because it would seem towny to do so. If he really gave that much effort to come with a plan, I would imagine he would also be interested in advancing discussions which he isn't so far.
Who are your top candidates to lynch?
So he proposed a plan to look towny, but then immediately did something scummy by not following through with it?
Either Meteor is town, or he's scum with exactly JT since he was overly concerned with his activity.
I'm going to townread Riku for no particular reason.
GJ, JT, Abu
Hmm.
I was annoyed at the activity levels in general, and with the idea a mafia might get a free day 1 pass just because its slot didn't post. I am glad I was wrong and he did join, I really didn't think it was going to happen and wanted a replacement as early as possible to not stall the game.
Did you not see that or you saw it and thought I am faking it to protect JoeTerry in some way?
It felt to me like he proposed a plan just because it would seem towny to do so. If he really gave that much effort to come with a plan, I would imagine he would also be interested in advancing discussions which he isn't so far.
Who are your top candidates to lynch?
So he proposed a plan to look towny, but then immediately did something scummy by not following through with it?
Like I said, its hard when you have so little posts to work with. This was the one thing that jumped out to me as suspicious immediately when I read his posts.
I thought he was gonna follow through with the plan at the time.
Seeing as he posted since and didn't mention it, you may be right, that's putting unnecessary pressure at yourself as mafia. That said, I still don't see what the point is except look busy and waste town's time, so I assuming Riku doesn't follow through is NAI right now until I hear his thoughts.
Either Meteor is town, or he's scum with exactly JT since he was overly concerned with his activity.
I'm going to townread Riku for no particular reason.
GJ, JT, Abu
Hmm.
I was annoyed at the activity levels in general, and with the idea a mafia might get a free day 1 pass just because its slot didn't post. I am glad I was wrong and he did join, I really didn't think it was going to happen and wanted a replacement as early as possible to not stall the game.
Did you not see that or you saw it and thought I am faking it to protect JoeTerry in some way?
It felt to me like he proposed a plan just because it would seem towny to do so. If he really gave that much effort to come with a plan, I would imagine he would also be interested in advancing discussions which he isn't so far.
Who are your top candidates to lynch?
So he proposed a plan to look towny, but then immediately did something scummy by not following through with it?
Like I said, its hard when you have so little posts to work with. This was the one thing that jumped out to me as suspicious immediately when I read his posts.
I thought he was gonna follow through with the plan at the time.
Seeing as he posted since and didn't mention it, you may be right, that's putting unnecessary pressure at yourself as mafia. That said, I still don't see what the point is except look busy and waste town's time, so I assuming Riku doesn't follow through is NAI right now until I hear his thoughts.
Maybe, just maybe, the follow through can't happen until day 2. This is just hypothetical, but say, what if the plan involves night actions? What if there is some shennanigans regarding lying, grouping and logic.
Of course, I am not your imagination and I may act erratically comparatively.
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I am also called Riku. I tend to prefer being called riku.
That's fair. Personally I am not going to give a pass for someone on Day 1 in a game this small just to see what they plan at Day 2, but people are different. Just to be clear, I am not saying you are asking for a pass, just stating my look at things.
@Riku can you link me to a town and mafia game of you (prefer in a small game around 7 people like this one if possible)
@Abu why my question got your response over all the other content in this thread, other than the Vaimes post.
@Vaimes later when I am not using the phone to post.
Because you asked a general question and there was nothing else going on other than the Tiger vs GJ argument. I feel some of your questions are forced and aimless to be honest.
Ok, so mafia is going to have to fake results night 1. The Miller is the only buffer against that, so that means the Miller should be mafia target #1. Ideally they want to lynch them now, so Miller needs to cover their ass 100%. They should only reveal if scum gives them a false innocent. If scum gets caught and claims Miller then miller should counter. Other than that they stay quiet.
Abu, who is calling you suspicious and why are you directing your post at the game at large instead of them specifically?
GJ voted me and said I'm coasting or sth like that, and meteor showed suspicion of me in #55, I didn't tag them because I was too lazy to quote two posts in one.
Ok, so mafia is going to have to fake results night 1. The Miller is the only buffer against that, so that means the Miller should be mafia target #1. Ideally they want to lynch them now, so Miller needs to cover their ass 100%. They should only reveal if scum gives them a false innocent. If scum gets caught and claims Miller then miller should counter. Other than that they stay quiet.
@Tom: Does Miller get an investigation too?
Enough with the mechanics talk, do you have anything on the players?
Ok, so mafia is going to have to fake results night 1. The Miller is the only buffer against that, so that means the Miller should be mafia target #1. Ideally they want to lynch them now, so Miller needs to cover their ass 100%. They should only reveal if scum gives them a false innocent. If scum gets caught and claims Miller then miller should counter. Other than that they stay quiet.
@Tom: Does Miller get an investigation too?
I can save you the wait, a Miller doesn't get an investigation based on the roles in the signups and OPs.
@MeteorShower Tiger and GJ weren't on your lynch candidates list, why is that, is it because they are active, or there's sth townish about them?
I think they are both town because of their exchange in Page 1. In addition, I really liked Tiger's #12.
Abu, can you do an iso of Vaimes & Riku and tell me your thoughts on them? I know what you are gonna ask - we can talk later why those people specifically.
Glad to see the town getting more active. I like the recent contribution from Abu, I think he asked some good questions. Same goes for Vaimes. No really sold on both, but I think we have better lynch targets today. GJ and MS are also still off the table for me Day 1. Would love to hear GJ's input on recent town activity, though.
StinkyJoe is bordering scum for me. Lots of talk with no real essence. As Abu pointed out, most of the talk is of mechanics (except for #76). In addition, he has "misunderstood" rules more than once so far, which is a great excuse for lots of commenting and no real contribution. His #76 townread on me concerns me, because he pairs it with Vaimes - Vaimes is supposed to be town, unless he is scum exactly with me. I would understand some sort of pairing me with GJ or MS, I had enough interaction with both of them, but pairing me with Vaimes is... odd. I would like an explanation on what exactly makes you believe that. What ties do you see between me and Vaimes? Why can't Vaimes and I be in different teams?
I feel Rumanshi may be scum. All he contributed it literally just a cryptic plan, which obviously can't go into effect until Day 2. Basically no input on the players or on what was happening in thread, except for #58. Makes himself look valuable, because surely now we can't lynch him until we see what his plan was, and that's about it. Don't like it. His #58 is also the cause of great concern for me. He has claimed MS is scum, offered no evidence or theory to support this, and has not cast his vote. This does not feel town to me. It feels like scum, testing the waters, fishing for responses.
Vote: Rumanshi, but at this point, I would also settle for StinkyJoe lynch. Looking forward to answers from both Joe and Riku.
Glad to see the town getting more active. I like the recent contribution from Abu, I think he asked some good questions. Same goes for Vaimes. No really sold on both, but I think we have better lynch targets today. GJ and MS are also still off the table for me Day 1. Would love to hear GJ's input on recent town activity, though.
StinkyJoe is bordering scum for me. Lots of talk with no real essence. As Abu pointed out, most of the talk is of mechanics (except for #76). In addition, he has "misunderstood" rules more than once so far, which is a great excuse for lots of commenting and no real contribution. His #76 townread on me concerns me, because he pairs it with Vaimes - Vaimes is supposed to be town, unless he is scum exactly with me. I would understand some sort of pairing me with GJ or MS, I had enough interaction with both of them, but pairing me with Vaimes is... odd. I would like an explanation on what exactly makes you believe that. What ties do you see between me and Vaimes? Why can't Vaimes and I be in different teams?
I feel Rumanshi may be scum. All he contributed it literally just a cryptic plan, which obviously can't go into effect until Day 2. Basically no input on the players or on what was happening in thread, except for #58. Makes himself look valuable, because surely now we can't lynch him until we see what his plan was, and that's about it. Don't like it. His #58 is also the cause of great concern for me. He has claimed MS is scum, offered no evidence or theory to support this, and has not cast his vote. This does not feel town to me. It feels like scum, testing the waters, fishing for responses.
Vote: Rumanshi, but at this point, I would also settle for StinkyJoe lynch. Looking forward to answers from both Joe and Riku.
1. We are a page and a half into this game. There isn’t much else to talk about besides mechanics. That’s how games like this start. People talk about mechanics until some starts agreeing or disagreeing with another players opinion or behavior during this exchange. I townread you because of your mechanics talk about the miller. That’s pretty simple, vaimes saw it the same way, so I also townread him for it. The most likely scenario that could possibly end up with one of them scum would probably mean both are. Sorry if that wasn’t clear in my post but it seemed obvious to me.
Also, I have to say me misunderstanding the rules really shouldn’t be AI, but in my defense anyways, the rules are not super explanatory and are hidden behind a spoiler block.
For me misunderstandings like JoeTerry had are NAI, can be either town not paying attention or mafia faking it. Obviously both are bad for town but that doesn't mean its AI.
Abu, who is calling you suspicious and why are you directing your post at the game at large instead of them specifically?
GJ voted me and said I'm coasting or sth like that, and meteor showed suspicion of me in #55, I didn't tag them because I was too lazy to quote two posts in one.
Oversensitive much?
Here have this:
Vote: Abu
Your push on me felt forced.
Vaimes saw the same thing too (over-defensiveness). More +Vaimes points.
Can someone walk me through whether it's better to have everyone check a predetermined target vs. keeping it a secret until D2? I'm not sure if it's better to have one claimed check on every player, or some of the players receiving multiple checks.
That's clearly not going to work, because no one is really invested in winning so far.
And I just now had the idea of "everyone check the player below them in the livelist" and wanted to see if that was stupid or not.
Do you think I should unvote JT?
Is this directed at me or Meteor? If it's at me, you know the answer considering it was a RVS vote, but whatever. I'm here, you're here. Sup?
I think your idea is good, and I'm all about trying to mechanically break games like this, but after thinking about it I think it just comes down to preference. There's ways for each idea to get ruined by scum plotting. I think it's safer to go the planned route, but it also puts all the info on the table and lets scum make contingency plans. If we keep our cards close to our chest, we a good chance for that GOTCHA! moment, and less wiggle room for scum if they get caught.
Really, Vaimes is like number #1 town right (besides me). This type of thinking just demonstrates he's solving more than any other player in this game. Yeah, I get it, it's early, but whatever.
That's clearly not going to work, because no one is really invested in winning so far.
And I just now had the idea of "everyone check the player below them in the livelist" and wanted to see if that was stupid or not.
Do you think I should unvote JT?
Is this directed at me or Meteor? If it's at me, you know the answer considering it was a RVS vote, but whatever. I'm here, you're here. Sup?
I think your idea is good, and I'm all about trying to mechanically break games like this, but after thinking about it I think it just comes down to preference. There's ways for each idea to get ruined by scum plotting. I think it's safer to go the planned route, but it also puts all the info on the table and lets scum make contingency plans. If we keep our cards close to our chest, we a good chance for that GOTCHA! moment, and less wiggle room for scum if they get caught.
Really, Vaimes is like number #1 town right (besides me). This type of thinking just demonstrates he's solving more than any other player in this game. Yeah, I get it, it's early, but whatever.
The more I think about this, the more this bothers me. He is asking questions, but what solving is he really doing. And more than any other player? Hm...
More votes on Abu. As if to proof my point, he has continued to coast. He isn't the only one, but he is where I am starting today. Feel free to start hunting, or change my mind, but whining about me voting you, and calling it out like its the whole game reads defensive. Asknig some half hearted questions to Terry does not replace hunting.
I wouldn't hate Vaimes right now, since he is pinging my radar a bit. But like I said, the remaining 3 go down. With any luck, one of them is the miller.
I am going on vacation, and not sure if I will have any access to internet. So VLA until 14/10, I guess. Will try to log in and post though if I get the chance.
Because of this, I will read the game soon and will place my vote, although I would have liked to wait for more answers and posts but whatever, better than risking not getting to vote before the day ends.
Does the sentence “Do you think I should unvote JT?” sound like something I would direct at you and not at someone else /about/ you?
I dunno, your townread is nice but the strength of it is a little lost on me.
Didn't notice you were voting JT. I am not going to tell you who to vote unlike GJ lol.
I guess a better question would be who would you vote if the two wagons were Abu and Riku (my two top2 mafia reads), but you are not gonna answer this anyway but the time I leave to the vacation..
In general I feel kinda discuraged about this game. Still no answers from Abu and Riku and I don't feel like asking more questions and waiting more days, and dragging this on and on..
I assume GJ is joking regarding wanting to lynch the miller. I do appreciate someone trying to lead town.
I read the Vaimes - JT interactions and I have no idea what to make of those, soooo strange. Gonna try rereading and see if it make more sense.
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Who are your top candidates to lynch?
I mean, that's basically the game apart from me, you, and tiger.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I agree with GJ on this one. This town is not nearly active enough.
Because I am not getting nearly enough town motivation from almost all the players here, reading their posts.
No offense but even you had some comments that made me go :/ but at least you have some comments that made me feel you are town.
Riku we talked about.
Abu doesn't give enough focus reading the posts like I would expect a townie would.
Vaimes posts seems passive detached from the game (even before the sickness), different from the town Vaimes I know.
No idea whats going on with JoeTerry. I also PMd Tom about it, not reply so far.
Look at you two agreeing with each other, I love it.
Joe (1) - vaimes
Tiger (1) - meteor
Abu (1) - gj
Not voting: (4) - joe, tiger, abu, ruma
Joeterry was prodded and will be replaced if he doesn't respond by this evening.
The setup is not only the same as before, but is in the OP (copy pasted from the original).
I’ll post tonight, chores gotta get did.
I’m at 90% town for Meteor.
/wolfy pop-out
Found the scum.
Haha! That’s the funsies part! Maybe I am the Miller! Haha! Ok now RVS...
Vote: Tiger He’s grrrrrrrrrreat!
Also,
GJ & Tiger
Also, I forgot Tiger proposed that plan. I think I'll townread him for it.
I'm going to townread Riku for no particular reason.
GJ, JT, Abu
Hmm.
It was also in the signup thread, not spoilered.
This seems fake to me.
I was annoyed at the activity levels in general, and with the idea a mafia might get a free day 1 pass just because its slot didn't post. I am glad I was wrong and he did join, I really didn't think it was going to happen and wanted a replacement as early as possible to not stall the game.
Did you not see that or you saw it and thought I am faking it to protect JoeTerry in some way?
Like I said, its hard when you have so little posts to work with. This was the one thing that jumped out to me as suspicious immediately when I read his posts.
I thought he was gonna follow through with the plan at the time.
Seeing as he posted since and didn't mention it, you may be right, that's putting unnecessary pressure at yourself as mafia. That said, I still don't see what the point is except look busy and waste town's time, so I assuming Riku doesn't follow through is NAI right now until I hear his thoughts.
Maybe, just maybe, the follow through can't happen until day 2. This is just hypothetical, but say, what if the plan involves night actions? What if there is some shennanigans regarding lying, grouping and logic.
Of course, I am not your imagination and I may act erratically comparatively.
Interesting..
Now when other players start being active, Tiger and GJ disappeared :faceplam:
Come back guys!
I agree that Tiger is probably town. And you are probably town unless you are exactly scum with Tiger. Ok. Brb
@Tom: Does Miller get an investigation too?
I can save you the wait, a Miller doesn't get an investigation based on the roles in the signups and OPs.
I think they are both town because of their exchange in Page 1. In addition, I really liked Tiger's #12.
Abu, can you do an iso of Vaimes & Riku and tell me your thoughts on them? I know what you are gonna ask - we can talk later why those people specifically.
StinkyJoe is bordering scum for me. Lots of talk with no real essence. As Abu pointed out, most of the talk is of mechanics (except for #76). In addition, he has "misunderstood" rules more than once so far, which is a great excuse for lots of commenting and no real contribution. His #76 townread on me concerns me, because he pairs it with Vaimes - Vaimes is supposed to be town, unless he is scum exactly with me. I would understand some sort of pairing me with GJ or MS, I had enough interaction with both of them, but pairing me with Vaimes is... odd. I would like an explanation on what exactly makes you believe that. What ties do you see between me and Vaimes? Why can't Vaimes and I be in different teams?
I feel Rumanshi may be scum. All he contributed it literally just a cryptic plan, which obviously can't go into effect until Day 2. Basically no input on the players or on what was happening in thread, except for #58. Makes himself look valuable, because surely now we can't lynch him until we see what his plan was, and that's about it. Don't like it. His #58 is also the cause of great concern for me. He has claimed MS is scum, offered no evidence or theory to support this, and has not cast his vote. This does not feel town to me. It feels like scum, testing the waters, fishing for responses.
Vote: Rumanshi, but at this point, I would also settle for StinkyJoe lynch. Looking forward to answers from both Joe and Riku.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Also, I have to say me misunderstanding the rules really shouldn’t be AI, but in my defense anyways, the rules are not super explanatory and are hidden behind a spoiler block.
Waiting on answers for #71 & #81.
@Abu @Riku.
Here have this:
Vote: Abu
Your push on me felt forced.
Vaimes saw the same thing too (over-defensiveness). More +Vaimes points.
Personally I think keeping it a secret and hoping for valuable contradictory multiple checks are better.
Vaimes, if you had to vote right now who would it be?
And I just now had the idea of "everyone check the player below them in the livelist" and wanted to see if that was stupid or not.
Do you think I should unvote JT?
I think your idea is good, and I'm all about trying to mechanically break games like this, but after thinking about it I think it just comes down to preference. There's ways for each idea to get ruined by scum plotting. I think it's safer to go the planned route, but it also puts all the info on the table and lets scum make contingency plans. If we keep our cards close to our chest, we a good chance for that GOTCHA! moment, and less wiggle room for scum if they get caught.
Really, Vaimes is like number #1 town right (besides me). This type of thinking just demonstrates he's solving more than any other player in this game. Yeah, I get it, it's early, but whatever.
I dunno, your townread is nice but the strength of it is a little lost on me.
Vaimes feels grimy to me, but I can't really point out why.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I would just lynch in the last three, and if one of them happens to be the miller, all the better.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The more I think about this, the more this bothers me. He is asking questions, but what solving is he really doing. And more than any other player? Hm...
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
More votes on Abu. As if to proof my point, he has continued to coast. He isn't the only one, but he is where I am starting today. Feel free to start hunting, or change my mind, but whining about me voting you, and calling it out like its the whole game reads defensive. Asknig some half hearted questions to Terry does not replace hunting.
I wouldn't hate Vaimes right now, since he is pinging my radar a bit. But like I said, the remaining 3 go down. With any luck, one of them is the miller.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Because of this, I will read the game soon and will place my vote, although I would have liked to wait for more answers and posts but whatever, better than risking not getting to vote before the day ends.
Didn't notice you were voting JT. I am not going to tell you who to vote unlike GJ lol.
I guess a better question would be who would you vote if the two wagons were Abu and Riku (my two top2 mafia reads), but you are not gonna answer this anyway but the time I leave to the vacation..
In general I feel kinda discuraged about this game. Still no answers from Abu and Riku and I don't feel like asking more questions and waiting more days, and dragging this on and on..
I assume GJ is joking regarding wanting to lynch the miller. I do appreciate someone trying to lead town.
I read the Vaimes - JT interactions and I have no idea what to make of those, soooo strange. Gonna try rereading and see if it make more sense.