I think that his pushes are okay but I'm really not sure about his read on Dan. I think half of Cantrip's posts are really good and half are like, super filler, so @Cantrip, what are you getting out of all of the questions you've been asking (in terms of offsite phases and stuff)? I'm inclined to just call him tonw but I feel like some of those questions sound like scum trying to reach out and interact with everyone for ??? reasons. Only reason I want some verification there.
If Kami scum read me before they responded to that other post about me, I missed that. Good scum read off of three posts. Maybe it was just a lean given the detachment but either way it kinda pinged me when I was reading back. Will look there later if I ever remember but probably won't.
Emcee Mikey or whatever is a pretty solid villager imo. Good start, Manasi.
AMA.
The red text is mine and feels like a trial balloon. "Can I get away with town reading this guy off effort?"
This on the other hand feels completely agendaless.
I have nothing analytical to read into wrt Manasi. It's all really tonal stuff and that's more in the eye of the beholder than something to wall about. I came out at about null.
Onto the tom handling of Killma I was talking about and asked about by Dan.
You've got a whole lot of these vague things. Do you have anything specific?
/barn
---
To prove I can create an original thought:
>KA trys to start game
>RE decides he doesn't like this, and votes him
>RE acknowledges KA was trying to start the game after being called out by Killma, but doesn't unvote
>RE acknowledges that his vote was after RVS, but still a random vote, but defends his random vote
>Defense of not-so-random random vote chooses to omit the first reaction that it was intended to generate (mine)
Why do you think that I'm likely scum if I'm wrong about a page 3 read? Doesn't strike you as a bit lynch-chainy? Either attack my logic or agree with it, don't drive-by shade me.
YOURE RIGHT.
LESS MISLYNCHES IF WE START AT THE OTHER END OF THE CHAIN.
YEAH MIKEY V VEZOK IS REALLY SHOWY. THINK I LIKE THAT PAIRING.
DANS JUST TREATING PEOPLE LIKE SCUM DO. NO CONNECTION TO THE OTHERS THOUGH.
I'M READY TO END THE DAY/TOMORROW/DAY 3 LETSGO
This was the progression I was talking about. Goes from lol Killma newb!scum for the interaction with RE to Dan is scum if both town for his chainsaw to let's just lynch Dan for the Chainsaw. And then doesn't go back to Killma till the End of Day. Then swings to Mikey v Vezok saying it looks like scum theater and strongly wanted to lynch both of them. The handling of this and choosing #Wagons as the reason to vote Killma over MikeyGJ is just a good but TMI'y look. The thread flow of it just feels all wrong and wolfy. Especially since there was just almost no chance GJ was going to get lynched when tom called #wagons.
Because as scum the team would have been sketching out mislynch paths so she would have seen lists of all the players in the game at some point beyond the signup list thus knowing I must be a replacement.
Anyway @Manasi my gut says you're town, but I'm trying to trust it less when it comes to tone reading because it's been wrong a lot lately.
@Grape the idea that Tom's a wolf who b2b lolbussed his buddies has occurred to me a couple of times. it's kinda not easy to explain why I don't think it's a real possibility--his spontaneity and fluidity around both correct wolfreads has just felt real af.
@Manasi I agree Grape is town. Kpaca could have gone either way very very easily and I think that slots just swinging upwards even parsing thru the fact that a lot of his content is WIMposting it's towny wimposti g
allowing for the fact we're not lynching that today where do we go next? I'm still not sure where to look to see town in your play here outside of the towny sass type thing and I feel like you're too good and too experienced for towny sass to be a strong towntell
@Grape the idea that Tom's a wolf who b2b lolbussed his buddies has occurred to me a couple of times. it's kinda not easy to explain why I don't think it's a real possibility--his spontaneity and fluidity around both correct wolfreads has just felt real af.
He didn't really have a choice on Cantrip. Re is the only person who gets credit there. Tom is way too good to try and tone read him off his reaction to a guilty.
And reading the early game I feel like GJ had stabilized and was actively garnering town reads before Tom's vote but I could be wrong there.
SO I CAN'T TELL IF GRAPE IS JUST TRYING TO PUSH ME CUZ I'M TOM OR IF HE'S JUST REMEMBERING THE, LIKE, ONE TIME IVE BUSSED IN THE LAST YEAR OR TWO (WHICH, TO BE FAIR, WAS BUSSING HIM SO PROBABLY A REASONABLE THING TO STICK IN HIS MIND)
NEEDLESS TO SAY I'M NOT AS ENAMORED WITH HIS GOODPOSTING AS THOSE THAT DON'T KNOW GRAPE LOL. IT'S GOOD IT JUST... DOESN'T MEAN MUCH SINCE IF SCUM HED BE FINAL SCUM
WHICH... KINDA JUST PURE DISADVANTAGE FOR REPLACING IN BUT GRAPE WAS BRIEFLY HERE BEFORE CANTRIP GOT OUTED AND IT WAS PRETTY WOLFY...
@Tom I'd disagree that I was scummy in my previous cameo, but I was definitely incorrect. I was working with incomplete facts and drew some incorrect conclusions. Like if Dan + Manasi are town and I'm still alive that's going to be really messy, but I'm confident I'll actually be able to clear myself if it comes to that. And nail you to the wall if you're still alive then too. But maybe not.
And yeah revisiting your scum games I probably do view you as more of a busser than you are. ZE and especially Arkham were both powerwolfy. And so was Bare Bones going back a bit further. But you only sort of bussed Cantrip and Killma fits the archtype that you bussed when you bussed me (flaily newb!scum with no confidence) so I'm still side eyeing it.
Regardless I'm not getting you lynched today. And given Dan's interactions with Cantrip + Killma he probably shouldn't survive another phase. Manasi has a slew of soft indicators pointing to her being scum (engagement, tone, one weird trial balloon looking post) but nothing particularly pointing to her being scum. While Dan's is just the horrible early game interactions with dead scum, those are never changing, and people are never going to be able to change their minds about that.
Guess I'm just in wait and see on if Dan has more to say then. His catch up was solid and if has more breakdowns I'd like to see them but I just have a hard time justifying a lynch on anyone given the start of the game. I mean I should go ISO KA but I don't have the time at the moment.
SERIOUS QUESTION: WHAT IS NOTED ABOUT MY CONFIDENCE?
IS THAT INDICATIVE OF SOMETHING?
LIKE, I WOULD HAVE CONFIDENCE REGARDLESS IT'S AN INTRINSIC PART OF MY [INTERNET PERSONA/PERSONALITY/WHATEVER]. AND CURRENTLY MY CONFIDENCE IS MORE THAN JUSTIFIED VIA INDEPENDENTLY TOWNIE, PROVEN ROLE+ROLE EVEN TOWNIER BY SETUP+WAS BLOCKED BY CANTRIP+AN EXCELLENT READ/PIVOTAL VOTE ON KILLMA+FRANKLY THEY BOTH TREATED ME AS A TOWNIE TO BE FEARED AND EVEN THE POINT YOU HAVE AGAINST ME, THAT I TOWNREAD CANTRIP FOR THE BRUTAL BUS, SEEMS TO IGNORE THAT I ALLOWED MYSELF TO BE TALKED OUT OF IT BEFORE THE RED CHECK WHICH IS MAYBE THE ONLY TIME THIS GAME I'VE ACTUALLY LEFT MY SCUMRANGE (THOUGH I DON'T THINK ANYONE IN THIS GAME KNOWS ME WELL ENOUGH TO REALIZE WHY)
HOLD UP HOW ARE YOU JUSTIFYING ME BEING SCUM AGAIN?
well, i don't really know what to do now, even after reading, i reach no conclusion, i'm scum reading ppl that others won't lynch, and the only lynch i would kinda be ok with, i'm like that cuz of mechanics, which doesn't sound excellent...
manasi?, idk, grape?, i like him.
but let's shade, since vez supposedly has 2 shots that are the same as mine, couldn't he have a shot to delay things?? like, him being the delayer??
just leaving this out there *whistles*
Like the worst already said Vez has a confirmed ability usage on N1 (normalizing Dan). There is literally far less overlap between your (you and Vezok) roles than between tom/Cantrip/GJ and Manasi/Unknown/Cantrip.
he did, that happened, what tells you he can't use it during the day?, maybe his role lets him, we will never know (OK, yes, I admit, couldn't be him)
also, you talk about the overlap of ability and say "Manasi/Unknown/Cantrip." why do you think those two overlap and who is the unknown??
OH I CAN ANSWER THIS ONE
THE SET OF "MANIPULATIVE ROLES" IN THIS SETUP, AS FAR AS HAS BEEN REVEALED TO US/CLAIMED IS:
-THE GAME-WIDE REDIRECT FROM N2
-GJ'S 1 SHOT ABILITY
-DAN'S CLAIMED/PROVEN/ALTERED ABILITY
-MANASI'S CLAIMED/UNUSED/UNPROVEN ABILITY
-HALF OF CANTRIPS ABILITY
-PROBABLY SOME NUMBER OF VEZOKS ABILITIES
GRAPE SEEMS TO HAVE LEFT GJ AND VEZOK OUT.
ALSO PART OF THE REASON I WANT TO LYNCH IN DAN/MANASI TODAY, FTR
@Tom your role isn't inherently townie but you've used it in a reasonably townie way. I also think your path to voting Killma was scummy. Like yes you helped get him lynched but getting there took a scummy path and you came on late.
As for your Cantrip push I didn't realize you flipped on him before the check. If you had that changes a fair bit.
And the being blocked by Cantrip looks like the sort of plan you'd cook up for credit since you'd be proving your role in public.
The NoTeD thing was intended as a joke bravado back at yours.
@Albertino And yeah tom basically explained it. I isolated those 3 of the manipulative roles because they are explicitly blocking or delaying. So with that in mind what does that tell you if trying to solve mechanically?
@Tom your role isn't inherently townie but you've used it in a reasonably townie way. I also think your path to voting Killma was scummy. Like yes you helped get him lynched but getting there took a scummy path and you came on late.
As for your Cantrip push I didn't realize you flipped on him before the check. If you had that changes a fair bit.
And the being blocked by Cantrip looks like the sort of plan you'd cook up for credit since you'd be proving your role in public.
The NoTeD thing was intended as a joke bravado back at yours.
@Albertino And yeah tom basically explained it. I isolated those 3 of the manipulative roles because they are explicitly blocking or delaying. So with that in mind what does that tell you if trying to solve mechanically?
hum... i would say either you're the unknown (less likely) or manasi is the unknown and she's claiming a less powerful role of her actual role (need to check when she claimed, if before or after we learned vez roles)
this could also mean that Manasi is town cuz scum only has 1 scum of every type ??
also, i think manasi does have the large delay but is afraid to claim it, because people could try to lynch her because of that, if you say that RE gave good arguments on why the role is town so she should be able to claim, claiming after that would be even more scummy
Well for the sake of argument assume I'm not the delayer and it's either The Worst or KA who haven't claimed at all or an additional ability someone hasn't owned up to it. I don't think Manasi is lying about it because if she had it and was under pressure rather than lying I'd assume she'd just make the (correct) argument that it is a townie role. If she's scum maybe she felt it would sink her but claiming such a similar role to it would needlessly arouse suspicion.
I don't think it makes sense to assume that there is one of each type of role give we have 3 publicly confirmed communication roles.
Can we lynch dan and solve tomorrow? I don't think we have anything worthwhile to talk about today.
Also please note how albertino has almost disappeared when the pressure got off him.
Yeah I'm pretty sure it's just Albertino and we're running circles around it and will wrap up tomorrow. Whatever, I'm fine with anything but vezok and RE at this point. unvote vote dan
Heads up: I'm V/LA next Friday-Sunday (19-21). I think we can finish before then, though.
Back to L-1. I assume the last scum really doesn't want anything to do with my wagon.
I'll continue, but I'd love the last couple of days of my life for you guys' sake.
If I was scum, I would've shot RE yesterday and Tom tonight, unless I got clarification that I needed to shoot RE twice to get her dead in hypothetical BG land.
@GRAPE WHAT ABOUT MY KILLMA APPROACH WAS SCUMMY?
HE LOOKED LIKE NOOB SCUM IN RVS SO I VOTED HIM. HE JUST LOOKED LIKE A NOOB FOR AWHILE AND I PUSHED OTHER THINGS/VOTED OTHER PLACES FOR AWHILE, WHILE CLEARLY STILL TRYING TO SORT HIM ALONG THAT NOOB SPECTRUM, AND CAME BACK TO LYNCH HIM WHEN IT MATTERED.
WHAT IS YOUR NARRATIVE THST PAINTS THST DIFFERENTLY
@DAN I THINK THE KILL TARGETS DEPEND GREATLY ON WHO THE LAST SCUM IS, BUT THERE ARE WORLDS WHERE I DIE TONIGHT
@GRAPE WHAT ABOUT MY KILLMA APPROACH WAS SCUMMY?
HE LOOKED LIKE NOOB SCUM IN RVS SO I VOTED HIM. HE JUST LOOKED LIKE A NOOB FOR AWHILE AND I PUSHED OTHER THINGS/VOTED OTHER PLACES FOR AWHILE, WHILE CLEARLY STILL TRYING TO SORT HIM ALONG THAT NOOB SPECTRUM, AND CAME BACK TO LYNCH HIM WHEN IT MATTERED.
WHAT IS YOUR NARRATIVE THST PAINTS THST DIFFERENTLY
We can't read your mind and you can be (in)famously obtuse in your reasoning. So I can't see the progression from seeing him as noob!scum to just overall new. Without that connective tissue it looks like you bussed, felt you could pressure someone else before settling back in on your weak buddy at the EoD. You never explained your changing read on Killma just that you felt others (Dan for his stance on Killma/RE and Vez/Mikey) were scummier and you preferred to vote them before your #wagons vote after GJ was projecting town pretty clearly.
Tbf I newbtownleaned Killma for ages. his posting felt more tryhard than I normally expect to see from newbscum, save like after seeing his town/scumgame via chat mafia rounds it turns out he's pretty tonereadable too
Tbf I newbtownleaned Killma for ages. his posting felt more tryhard than I normally expect to see from newbscum, save like after seeing his town/scumgame via chat mafia rounds it turns out he's pretty tonereadable too
I don't think that's a problem. My issue with tom is the way he went from hard voting Killma to voting Dan for the way he approached Killma's showdown with RE to then dropping that all together and focusing on Vezok and Mikey. And when he did go back to Killma he deflected that is was a read and leaned on the fact that he called #wagons.
Regarding Mikey, his reactions seemed very offputting. If GJ could convince me that he's not scum, I'll be more than happy to unvote him. But I don't think the leads Mikey's left with his plays should be thrown out the window, even if it wasn't so well executed.
If mikey slot flips scum this is 100% scum too.
WEIRD I SAW THAT POST AND THOUGHT IT WAS A BAD LOOK IF MIKEYSLOT ISNT SCUM.
KILLMA KEEPS OSCILLATING BETWEEN NOOBTOWN AND OBVSCUM. LIKE, SOMETIMES HE SEEMS TO BE TRYING TO ADAPT HIS PREVIOUS TECHNIQUES FROM HOWEVER TOS WORKS. SOMETIMES HE LOOKS LIKE HE'S JUST LITERALLY MAKING ***** UP AND THROWING IT AT THE WALL.
FROM BETWEEN CALLING THE RE INTERACTION W/V AND MY VOTE.
HAVING JUST READ MY DAY 1 POSTS, IF I'M SCUM MY BUDDIES ARE PROBABLY [ROOT/CANTRIP/RE] + [VEZ/KAMI] WITH KPACASLOT/MANASI WILDCARD. WOULD CALL >RAND UNALIGNED WITH DAN/GJ/KILLMA/WORST.
THINK THE OPPOSITE OF HOW I TREATED KILLMA (AKA APPROXIMATELY VEZOK FLOW WISE) WOULD BE SUBSTANTIALLY MORE W/W THAN WHAT GRAPE IS TRYING TO SAY
I get bussing etc. etc. but it's pretty rare to like break your teammate's legs and dangle them in front of the bus when it's still like 50 metres away
It's not impossible he's s/s with Killma but I can't see myself being persuaded otherwise...... if that's scum theatre it's probably the kind of call that wins wolves games
It's not impossible he's s/s with Killma but I can't see myself being persuaded otherwise...... if that's scum theatre it's probably the kind of call that wins wolves games
WHICH... IS EXACTLY WHAT MY BUS OF GRAPE IN OTG DID
BUT I'M HAVING SOME TROUBLE WITH "I THINK THIS IS INTRINSICALLY SCUMMY" OVER, SAY, "TOM IS CAPABLE OF FAKING THIS BUT IT WOULD BE CLEARING FOR MOST"
IDK I'M DEFINITELY WINNING HERE BUT I'M NOT SURE THAT MAKES GRAPE SCUM.
IT'S THE SAME AS THE CANTRIP JAILING ME THING.
LIKE, SURE A TINFOIL POSSIBILITY I GUESS. HE COULD... NOT USE HIS ROLE SO WE COULD FAKE THAT.
BUT IT SEEMS KINDA WASTEFUL IN A ROLE MADNESS SETUP WHEN WE WOULD HAVE BOTH JUST GOT SOME MASSIVE TOWNCRED AND WOULD BE EYEING POWERWOLFING TO ENDGAME. YEAH IT WOULDN'T HAVE WORKED WITH THE RE TRACK BUT THAT'S EXACTLY THE KIND OF PITFALL SCUMTOM LOSES GAMES TO, BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE MY DEFAULT FROM THAT SITUATION.
BUT THE FACT HE'S ARGUING THAT I'M SCUMMY, WHEN IT'S JUST A SERIES OF TINFOIL POSSIBILITIES FMPOV.
IT'S NOT ADDING UP.
THAT SAID, I'M NOTORIOUSLY BAD AT READING PEOPLE OFF THEIR READ OF ME, POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE.
I CREATE TOO MUCH CHAOS FOR THAT, JUST IN GENERAL.
Your reaction to his claim is exactly the reaction I'd expect you to have if a buddy made that claim. The other post talking about the oscillating does show process on it though. Really despite all my talk about this it's not something I'm overly inclined to worry about right now. I expect tonight to change everything drastically if lynching Dan doesn't end things.
In my defense it's tinfoil combined with things that seem actually scummy (the handling of the wagon, the push towards lynching Dan beofre either of RE/Killma stands out, and the mid-game focus on Mikey/Vez before just going against your convictions for wagons). Like it's not a strong case and Cantrip being scum really makes it incredibly last likely but I just can't shake it and given how cut and dry the case against Dan is it's much more interesting to discuss.
IT'S THE SAME AS THE CANTRIP JAILING ME THING.
LIKE, SURE A TINFOIL POSSIBILITY I GUESS. HE COULD... NOT USE HIS ROLE SO WE COULD FAKE THAT.
BUT IT SEEMS KINDA WASTEFUL IN A ROLE MADNESS SETUP WHEN WE WOULD HAVE BOTH JUST GOT SOME MASSIVE TOWNCRED AND WOULD BE EYEING POWERWOLFING TO ENDGAME. YEAH IT WOULDN'T HAVE WORKED WITH THE RE TRACK BUT THAT'S EXACTLY THE KIND OF PITFALL SCUMTOM LOSES GAMES TO, BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE MY DEFAULT FROM THAT SITUATION.
BUT THE FACT HE'S ARGUING THAT I'M SCUMMY, WHEN IT'S JUST A SERIES OF TINFOIL POSSIBILITIES FMPOV.
IT'S NOT ADDING UP.
THAT SAID, I'M NOTORIOUSLY BAD AT READING PEOPLE OFF THEIR READ OF ME, POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE.
I CREATE TOO MUCH CHAOS FOR THAT, JUST IN GENERAL.
I relate to every word of this post ya I lost my ability to read people by their reads of me ages ago
Actually really really like the paranoid confbiasy way Grape has read you as scum though. like it >rand comes from town, I think scum look for pushed that just present Hette4
one other game of mine?
Similar? Different? Can't really tell?
This was the progression I was talking about. Goes from lol Killma newb!scum for the interaction with RE to Dan is scum if both town for his chainsaw to let's just lynch Dan for the Chainsaw. And then doesn't go back to Killma till the End of Day. Then swings to Mikey v Vezok saying it looks like scum theater and strongly wanted to lynch both of them. The handling of this and choosing #Wagons as the reason to vote Killma over
MikeyGJ is just a good but TMI'y look. The thread flow of it just feels all wrong and wolfy. Especially since there was just almost no chance GJ was going to get lynched when tom called #wagons.Because as scum the team would have been sketching out mislynch paths so she would have seen lists of all the players in the game at some point beyond the signup list thus knowing I must be a replacement.
Anyway @Manasi my gut says you're town, but I'm trying to trust it less when it comes to tone reading because it's been wrong a lot lately.
PRETTY SURE GJ WOULD HAVE BEEN LYNCHED IF I'D VOTED HIM INSTEAD OF KILLMA
BEYOND THAT YES KEEP CALLING MY READS TMI IT'S GOOD FOR MY EGO
@Manasi I agree Grape is town. Kpaca could have gone either way very very easily and I think that slots just swinging upwards even parsing thru the fact that a lot of his content is WIMposting it's towny wimposti g
allowing for the fact we're not lynching that today where do we go next? I'm still not sure where to look to see town in your play here outside of the towny sass type thing and I feel like you're too good and too experienced for towny sass to be a strong towntell
He didn't really have a choice on Cantrip. Re is the only person who gets credit there. Tom is way too good to try and tone read him off his reaction to a guilty.
And reading the early game I feel like GJ had stabilized and was actively garnering town reads before Tom's vote but I could be wrong there.
NEEDLESS TO SAY I'M NOT AS ENAMORED WITH HIS GOODPOSTING AS THOSE THAT DON'T KNOW GRAPE LOL. IT'S GOOD IT JUST... DOESN'T MEAN MUCH SINCE IF SCUM HED BE FINAL SCUM
WHICH... KINDA JUST PURE DISADVANTAGE FOR REPLACING IN BUT GRAPE WAS BRIEFLY HERE BEFORE CANTRIP GOT OUTED AND IT WAS PRETTY WOLFY...
MEH. STILL PREFER DAN OR MANASI.
Think I'm calling today's lynchpool {Manasi, Dan}
fight to the death pls
And yeah revisiting your scum games I probably do view you as more of a busser than you are. ZE and especially Arkham were both powerwolfy. And so was Bare Bones going back a bit further. But you only sort of bussed Cantrip and Killma fits the archtype that you bussed when you bussed me (flaily newb!scum with no confidence) so I'm still side eyeing it.
Regardless I'm not getting you lynched today. And given Dan's interactions with Cantrip + Killma he probably shouldn't survive another phase. Manasi has a slew of soft indicators pointing to her being scum (engagement, tone, one weird trial balloon looking post) but nothing particularly pointing to her being scum. While Dan's is just the horrible early game interactions with dead scum, those are never changing, and people are never going to be able to change their minds about that.
The confidence is NoTeD.
Guess I'm just in wait and see on if Dan has more to say then. His catch up was solid and if has more breakdowns I'd like to see them but I just have a hard time justifying a lynch on anyone given the start of the game. I mean I should go ISO KA but I don't have the time at the moment.
IS THAT INDICATIVE OF SOMETHING?
LIKE, I WOULD HAVE CONFIDENCE REGARDLESS IT'S AN INTRINSIC PART OF MY [INTERNET PERSONA/PERSONALITY/WHATEVER]. AND CURRENTLY MY CONFIDENCE IS MORE THAN JUSTIFIED VIA INDEPENDENTLY TOWNIE, PROVEN ROLE+ROLE EVEN TOWNIER BY SETUP+WAS BLOCKED BY CANTRIP+AN EXCELLENT READ/PIVOTAL VOTE ON KILLMA+FRANKLY THEY BOTH TREATED ME AS A TOWNIE TO BE FEARED AND EVEN THE POINT YOU HAVE AGAINST ME, THAT I TOWNREAD CANTRIP FOR THE BRUTAL BUS, SEEMS TO IGNORE THAT I ALLOWED MYSELF TO BE TALKED OUT OF IT BEFORE THE RED CHECK WHICH IS MAYBE THE ONLY TIME THIS GAME I'VE ACTUALLY LEFT MY SCUMRANGE (THOUGH I DON'T THINK ANYONE IN THIS GAME KNOWS ME WELL ENOUGH TO REALIZE WHY)
HOLD UP HOW ARE YOU JUSTIFYING ME BEING SCUM AGAIN?
DAMMIT I WASN'T GONNA ENGAGE WITH THIS
Also please note how albertino has almost disappeared when the pressure got off him.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
THE SET OF "MANIPULATIVE ROLES" IN THIS SETUP, AS FAR AS HAS BEEN REVEALED TO US/CLAIMED IS:
-THE GAME-WIDE REDIRECT FROM N2
-GJ'S 1 SHOT ABILITY
-DAN'S CLAIMED/PROVEN/ALTERED ABILITY
-MANASI'S CLAIMED/UNUSED/UNPROVEN ABILITY
-HALF OF CANTRIPS ABILITY
-PROBABLY SOME NUMBER OF VEZOKS ABILITIES
GRAPE SEEMS TO HAVE LEFT GJ AND VEZOK OUT.
ALSO PART OF THE REASON I WANT TO LYNCH IN DAN/MANASI TODAY, FTR
THE REDIRECTS ARE DAN AND JOHNNY
THE DELAYS ARE MANASI? AND [?]
THE BLOCK IS CANTRIP
As for your Cantrip push I didn't realize you flipped on him before the check. If you had that changes a fair bit.
And the being blocked by Cantrip looks like the sort of plan you'd cook up for credit since you'd be proving your role in public.
The NoTeD thing was intended as a joke bravado back at yours.
@Albertino And yeah tom basically explained it. I isolated those 3 of the manipulative roles because they are explicitly blocking or delaying. So with that in mind what does that tell you if trying to solve mechanically?
Tom, do you not think there's a reasonable chance you die tonight?
Well for the sake of argument assume I'm not the delayer and it's either The Worst or KA who haven't claimed at all or an additional ability someone hasn't owned up to it. I don't think Manasi is lying about it because if she had it and was under pressure rather than lying I'd assume she'd just make the (correct) argument that it is a townie role. If she's scum maybe she felt it would sink her but claiming such a similar role to it would needlessly arouse suspicion.
I don't think it makes sense to assume that there is one of each type of role give we have 3 publicly confirmed communication roles.
fair
that's what surprised me
the way someone loses a debate is infinitely more valuable than the content of any random debate
unvote
vote dan
Heads up: I'm V/LA next Friday-Sunday (19-21). I think we can finish before then, though.
I'll continue, but I'd love the last couple of days of my life for you guys' sake.
If I was scum, I would've shot RE yesterday and Tom tonight, unless I got clarification that I needed to shoot RE twice to get her dead in hypothetical BG land.
Anyhow. KA appears to be next!
HE LOOKED LIKE NOOB SCUM IN RVS SO I VOTED HIM. HE JUST LOOKED LIKE A NOOB FOR AWHILE AND I PUSHED OTHER THINGS/VOTED OTHER PLACES FOR AWHILE, WHILE CLEARLY STILL TRYING TO SORT HIM ALONG THAT NOOB SPECTRUM, AND CAME BACK TO LYNCH HIM WHEN IT MATTERED.
WHAT IS YOUR NARRATIVE THST PAINTS THST DIFFERENTLY
@DAN I THINK THE KILL TARGETS DEPEND GREATLY ON WHO THE LAST SCUM IS, BUT THERE ARE WORLDS WHERE I DIE TONIGHT
We can't read your mind and you can be (in)famously obtuse in your reasoning. So I can't see the progression from seeing him as noob!scum to just overall new. Without that connective tissue it looks like you bussed, felt you could pressure someone else before settling back in on your weak buddy at the EoD. You never explained your changing read on Killma just that you felt others (Dan for his stance on Killma/RE and Vez/Mikey) were scummier and you preferred to vote them before your #wagons vote after GJ was projecting town pretty clearly.
I don't think that's a problem. My issue with tom is the way he went from hard voting Killma to voting Dan for the way he approached Killma's showdown with RE to then dropping that all together and focusing on Vezok and Mikey. And when he did go back to Killma he deflected that is was a read and leaned on the fact that he called #wagons.
BONUS FROM AFTER VOTE:
...
THINK THE OPPOSITE OF HOW I TREATED KILLMA (AKA APPROXIMATELY VEZOK FLOW WISE) WOULD BE SUBSTANTIALLY MORE W/W THAN WHAT GRAPE IS TRYING TO SAY
BUT I'M HAVING SOME TROUBLE WITH "I THINK THIS IS INTRINSICALLY SCUMMY" OVER, SAY, "TOM IS CAPABLE OF FAKING THIS BUT IT WOULD BE CLEARING FOR MOST"
IDK I'M DEFINITELY WINNING HERE BUT I'M NOT SURE THAT MAKES GRAPE SCUM.
IT'S THE SAME AS THE CANTRIP JAILING ME THING.
LIKE, SURE A TINFOIL POSSIBILITY I GUESS. HE COULD... NOT USE HIS ROLE SO WE COULD FAKE THAT.
BUT IT SEEMS KINDA WASTEFUL IN A ROLE MADNESS SETUP WHEN WE WOULD HAVE BOTH JUST GOT SOME MASSIVE TOWNCRED AND WOULD BE EYEING POWERWOLFING TO ENDGAME. YEAH IT WOULDN'T HAVE WORKED WITH THE RE TRACK BUT THAT'S EXACTLY THE KIND OF PITFALL SCUMTOM LOSES GAMES TO, BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE MY DEFAULT FROM THAT SITUATION.
BUT THE FACT HE'S ARGUING THAT I'M SCUMMY, WHEN IT'S JUST A SERIES OF TINFOIL POSSIBILITIES FMPOV.
IT'S NOT ADDING UP.
THAT SAID, I'M NOTORIOUSLY BAD AT READING PEOPLE OFF THEIR READ OF ME, POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE.
I CREATE TOO MUCH CHAOS FOR THAT, JUST IN GENERAL.
TBH
I relate to every word of this post ya I lost my ability to read people by their reads of me ages ago
Actually really really like the paranoid confbiasy way Grape has read you as scum though. like it >rand comes from town, I think scum look for pushed that just present Hette4
I want the flip. It just feels really bad faithy to hammer when I haven't had the time to do the meta dive he requested. :/ sorry.
Meh
Vote: Dan