ik she didn't heal, she would have to bodyguard, why would that info even be usefull?? o.O maybe asking is not that important, HMM?
But it is. If you are town, how can we possibly figure that out if your claim is all over the place? Scum botch their claims up more often than town because they're usually fake and can't simply be made by checking a PM. It is a pretty decent scumtell if there's inconsistency within a claim. So if you're town, don't be unnecessarily cryptic.
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why knowing my n1 target is not usefull:
1- i wouldn't know teh reasoning behind it
2- i didn't die, therefore it doesn't confirm anyone
why knowing my n1 target is usefull:
1-nothing
see, not worth it
It's not about the exact details, it's about knowing that it happened. By keeping silent, it looks like you have something to hide, when there really shouldn't be if you are being truthful about it.
For example, what if there's a watcher in this set up and you claim to have visited a player that they watched, and were not returned a result that you visited them? Then we would know you are lying. By avoiding full claims, you also avoid risk of exposure (if you are scum).
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sorry,
how the **** am i being cryptic about my claim?? it's obv i trageted you n2, and i already said it, and going to target tom n3, i also said it, my claim is not all over the place, i claimed one way and have sticked with it every time i talked about my role, prove how was my claim inconsistent, bet you can't. since the moment i claimed i was not cryptic....
it's not important cuz i can't do anything with that information.
Okay, we can work with this.
Claiming your targets via first votes is pretty cryptic, lol. When you said you couldn't target anyone n1, I thought there was some kind of restriction to your role, not that literally Root didn't choose anyone to target.
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well, if i had something to hide, i would not say i didn't target anyone no?? and i would have asked osie so i could lie without problems... me being open about not knowing, shows that i have nothing to hide no?
I don't know? I literally did not get that part until this page. At one point, I thought you were claiming that you targeted me n1.
Question. Why did you vote me and tom? Why not just vote me?
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sorry,
how the **** am i being cryptic about my claim?? it's obv i trageted you n2, and i already said it, and going to target tom n3, i also said it, my claim is not all over the place, i claimed one way and have sticked with it every time i talked about my role, prove how was my claim inconsistent, bet you can't. since the moment i claimed i was not cryptic....
it's not important cuz i can't do anything with that information.
Okay, we can work with this.
Claiming your targets via first votes is pretty cryptic, lol. When you said you couldn't target anyone n1, I thought there was some kind of restriction to your role, not that literally Root didn't choose anyone to target.
it is unless i said it had that intent, which i did...
i can see that happening, i still don't know if she targeted someone or not... waiting for osie
also, kinda going to sleep... 00:00 rn (+/-)
No, get back here and answer my questions.
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well, if i had something to hide, i would not say i didn't target anyone no?? and i would have asked osie so i could lie without problems... me being open about not knowing, shows that i have nothing to hide no?
I don't know? I literally did not get that part until this page. At one point, I thought you were claiming that you targeted me n1.
Question. Why did you vote me and tom? Why not just vote me?
if something would go wrong, I had a back up, in this case, the delay was something going wrong, so Tom is still a back up (aka next target)
Aside from the delay, what scenario would force you to have a back up? I can't think of one.
If you can only choose one player a night to bodyguard/protect, why give up two names? Why not vote me day 2, then vote Tom today?
Also, why do it in the beginning of the phase, when things are bound to change throughout it?
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also, at the time I though I could do both, just asked osie if I could after, but my last post was my initial reason, this is just a bonus
Why did you think you could do both?
And no, that doesn't answer my question. If you were worried that I would do crazy stuff ( ), then it's more reasonable to hint at it EoD rather than the beginning.
I also don't think that analogy fits...
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ALBERT HOW IS VEZOK NOT CARING ABOUT ANYTHING YOU SAID ANY DIFFERENT FROM YOU NOT CARING THAT VEZOKS READ IS BASED ON INTERACTIONS AND YOUR PREDECESSOR?
THEY FEEL REALLY SIMILAR TO ME.
*SIMILAR, AND NOT ESPECIALLY INDICATIVE FOR EITHER.
NEITHER TOWN OR SCUM HAS ANY PARTICULAR OBLIGATION TO CONSIDER EVERYTHING. DIFFERENT THINGS MATTER TO DIFFERENT PEOPLE. I, FOR EXAMPLE, DON'T TEND TO CARE ABOUT PEOPLE'S ACTUAL CONTENT AS MUCH AS POSITIONING AND REACTIONS. SO ESPECIALLY WITH MY READS ON SOMEONE LIKE RE/DAN I'M IGNORING HUGE SWATHS OF THEIR PLAY. IT'S NOT AI FOR ME EITHER.
getting unusual townpings from both Dias and to a lesser extent Dan on this page. I think Dias' content doesn't strike me as driving a town wincon hard but his tone is like extremely frustrated!town.
Dan I think maybe I just like that he finally reached out w something for me to do ): which I do need to do. Vez' anti-scumread of him is super interesting as well. either Vez is TMI on {Kami, Dan} or Vez is right and first impressions swing me towards the latter
Albertino, explain exactly what you mean when you say you couldn't target N1.
I still don't see Dan as a reasonable secondary lynch. I reviewed his posts and there's nothing there that stands out as scummy. He hasn't done all that much but if that's the metric, we should be taking down kpaca or Manasi long before dan.
If we need a secondary lynch I say it should be the_worst. Besides the interaction-based stuff I already noted, I am increasingly disliking the progression in #809-#815,#816. Most notably the assumption that there's going to be a "tomorrow".
See this post stinks but it's towny
I think my initial "yikes" read on Kami was jank. Gonna revisit my n1spam @ Tom
Kami what about my stances don't you like? can you lay it down for me if you wanna talk through it?
I'm a pretty chaotic player so I totally vibe that it takes a bit of adjustment to get used to me (particularly noting there is a strong sitemeta on MTGS of well laid out detailed posts)
You think we should be lynching me so mind throwing @ me what you think comes from a wolf? No disrespect but my progression in 809-816 is super normal me lmao
like I think there's a world where Dias is a wolf (I'm starting to get cold feet just a little bit as of those posts I was firmly in that camp). that conversation has already happened and people I townread have decided the Dias lynch is a bad idea in this phase so ya I'm cooling off it for now.
I like Vez' posting today a lot more than I expected to.
815 is a fluffpost.
I think you're either jarred by playstyle related stuff or maybe thinking about my angles there a few levels deeper than I was thinking about them because I'm kinda not sure what you take exception to there
FTR I'm making an effort to be more transparent than usual on here bc I lack the familiarity with this list! so I was a little blindsided having someone I'm starting to think is town throw that one in
I don't think confirmation bias is wolfy so much as frustrating play, Dias.
what he's doing isn't an accurate scumtell imo (if blanket scumtells ever work) - do you think he's a wolf for other reasons or just feeling poorly treated?
Sorry man I'm a bit lost because I am not into solving alignments via mechanics lol, it's pretty normal for JOATs not to coexist with full roles they have a shot of (particularly not on the same team) so from a mechanical point of view his cc is probably like 1% >rand town (displays a kinda GOTTEM conviction which comes from either alignment but his trajectory and advancement of his read on you since then has been solid and resonated at least with me.
it's ok to admit you don't feel like Vezok has given you the time of day you wish someone of the same alignment would. but I don't think you think he's a wolf outside of mechanical stuff and the fact you feel badly treated/derptunnelled?
Sorry my eyes are glazing over a little wrt mechanical solving. I'm not really sure what to talk about next, I think you're either a wolf or wrong about Vez + Kami atm. I can't really see how to slip into your brain based on this convo
also if you're town..... as a scumread bg never state your targets in advance. if you protect who you said you would tonight were like forced to lynch you :?
I'd say as town I'm generally fairly good at trying to relate to townies and talk thru where people are coming from. I'm kinda at an impasse with you which makes me think either we're wayyyyyy too different for this style to work or you're a wolf
it's kinda hard when your contributions are strongly mechanical tho like I can agreeeee or I can disagreeeee and one of us could be literally right or wrong and it shows absolutely no alignment solving thought process
that's kinda why I steer clear of mechanical stuff as regularly as possible
I'm telling you Vezok ccing makes a lot of sense from a town perspective. you're... really not seeing things my way
considering circular docs breaks the game I would cc that as either alignment (probably as town who thinks you're scum before scum who knows you're telling the truth tbh)..So I don't think that's a valid reason to strongly scumread him?
do you understand what I'm saying? if so do you disagree?
To me albertino feels desperate to not get lynched when there is one scum left. That is the biggest tell right now based on his play. Town should feel bad about being lynched, but the game is going as well as possible. They shouldn't feel so desperate to stay alive one more night.
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Sorry my eyes are glazing over a little wrt mechanical solving. I'm not really sure what to talk about next, I think you're either a wolf or wrong about Vez + Kami atm. I can't really see how to slip into your brain based on this convo
also if you're town..... as a scumread bg never state your targets in advance. if you protect who you said you would tonight were like forced to lynch you :?
also, why forced to lynch me?? also, I decided to doc and not bg, reason:
re could have lied and be scum(not likely but possible), but if I die, I conf her as town, I think this would be the better play tbh
"hey I'm a bg lol damn I missed all the NK targets and got to LyLo! silly me!" is a scumclaim.
you living to a hypothetical LyLo situation is massive -ev for town given you're widely scumread
To me albertino feels desperate to not get lynched when there is one scum left. That is the biggest tell right now based on his play. Town should feel bad about being lynched, but the game is going as well as possible. They shouldn't feel so desperate to stay alive one more night.
I actually think he feels more like a townie who's overeager to use his power role (playstyle indicative over alignment indicative).
to be fair that same tell initially scumpinged me about his play -- along with his extremely likeable nature of course! -- I just don't think it stands up given a playstyle like his.
not scum and I don't think they'll change before lylo:
{tw}
{Tom, RE}
townreading:
{Kami} - need a response to my post last page
{Vezok} - high town equity imo but town!Kami can still = TMIscum!Vez. don't think we're in that world but it's not impossible.
which leaves like
AlbertinoDias - bit of twtbaw I'm not gonna lie but no flip would surprise me rn. I kinda hope he flips due to night actions so I don't have to sort him x(
garderin - I can feel myself compromising on this which is notttttt something I like doing but at the same time I haven't townread this slot at all and have really struggled w getting a concrete read on him like.. all game. I like his self meta reach out. not sure I've liked anything else tho.
kpaca/Manasi - had more presence + likeable content earlygame/d1 and have like.... droppedddddddd
To me albertino feels desperate to not get lynched when there is one scum left. That is the biggest tell right now based on his play. Town should feel bad about being lynched, but the game is going as well as possible. They shouldn't feel so desperate to stay alive one more night.
maybe because i know i'm bound to be lynched but still think i can eat a nk?? also, you also feel desperate to lynch me, if i'm mafia again, you lose nothing in letting me live today
You're right. I don't care anymore. Wake me up when you decide to lynch Albertino.
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To me albertino feels desperate to not get lynched when there is one scum left. That is the biggest tell right now based on his play. Town should feel bad about being lynched, but the game is going as well as possible. They shouldn't feel so desperate to stay alive one more night.
THAT'S THE THING THOUGH. HE'S NOT DESPERATE TO NOT GET LYNCHED, HE'S DESPERATE TO LIVE ONE MORE DAY. IF HE'S REALLY FAKING BG AS SCUM, HE HAS TO KNOW HE'S GETTING LYNCHED TOMORROW.
AND. AND...
IF HE IS SCUM, HE CAN'T KILL RE. WHO WOULD THEN BE (AND PROBABLY IS REGARDLESS) TOWN TRACKER. HE CAN'T KILL ME I GUESS. HELL, HE REALLY CAN'T KILL YOU EITHER BECAUSE THEN WHO IS HE PUSHING?
SCUMALBERTINO WOULD HAVE PUT HIMSELF IN AN IMPOSSIBLE POSITION. AND HE'S NEVER SURVIVING LYLO AND WINNING THIS GAME. NEVER.
I DON'T CARE IF YOU WANT A PERFECT WIN. LYNCHING HIM *TODAY* IS WRONG. THE RISK OF HE'S SCUM IS TOO LOW AND THE REWARD IF HE'S TOWN IS TOO HIGH.
I'M HONESTLY TIRED OF EXPLAINING THIS.
THINK I'M GONNA STOP IVE LET MY OTHER READS SIT AND STAGNATE.
LET'S VOTE MANASI
THAT POPIN WAS PRETTY WOLFY AND I'M NOT CURRENTLY BUYING NOT USING HER ROLE
I really wanted to vote Manasi after reflecting on my reads list but I'm cognisant of the fact I'm multiposting too much and was gonna look like MORE of a spammer and now I feel like a poser,
I CAN'T GET OVER THE IMPORTANCE OF THIS DOUBLE NIGHT. LIKE, I'VE GOT TWO PEOPLE TALKING IN THREAD WITH ME TONIGHT.
EVERYONE ELSE HAS TWO ACTIONS TO GAIN [WHATEVER] OR, IF SCUM, FAKE SAME.
WE GET TO MASSCLAIM, PLUS ACTIONS. TOMORROW IS WHEN WE BREAK THE GAME OPEN.
SURE IT WOULD BE GREAT TO GET A CLEAN SWEEP. BUT IT WOULD ALMOST BE A SHAME TO MISS OUT ON THAT.
AND THAT BRINGS ME TO DAN AND MANASI. THEY'VE ALREADY CLAIMED, AND THEY CAN **** ***** UP. AND THEY BOTH HAVE A FAIR AMOUNT OF SCUM EQUITY ANYWAY,
IF YOU TAKE OUT CLAIMS, I'M NOT SURE EITHER IS MORE LIKELY THAN ALBERTINO. POSSIBLY IM PUTTING TOO MUCH STOCK IN MY GUT ON DAN. PERHAPS IF I TRIED HARDER I COULD FIND THAT TOWN SPARK IN MANASI IF SHE IS TOWN I OUGHT TO BE ABLE TO SEE IT.
I'M STILL MOSTLY QUESTION MARKS IN THIS GAME. IT'S IMPORTANT WE CLEAR ONE OUT, BUT I FIND IT PRETTY UNLIKELY WE'LL END IT TODAY. BUT THAT'S FINE. TOMORROW WILL BE GREAT.
RE/VEZOK TIER: JUST DOESN'T FIT ON THE TEAM
RE: TRACKED CANTRIP, KILLMA TREATED LIKE TOWN
VEZOK: REALLY EXPOSED KILLMA
KAMI/ALBERT TIER: NO PLAN IF SCUM
KAMI: HAS ONE POST TRAT WAS LIKE "YEAH SURE KILLMA IS SCUMMY BUT LET'S DO THIS INSTEAD. NO OTHER SIGNS HE KNEW WHO WAS SCUM AT ANY POINT
ALBERT: SEE #919. NO WIN CONDITION IF SCUM. SIDE NOTE, THIS EXPIRES TOMORROW. HE'S TOO BIG A QUESTION MARK.
WORST/DAN TIER: VOTED KILLMA, BUT IM EH ABOUT IT. REALISTICALLY NO LESS LIKELY TO BE SCUM THAN THE NEXT TIER, BUT THERE ARE POSITIVES. WORST FELT REAL WHEN WE TALKED AT NIGHT, BUT I'M AFRAID HE WAS JUST BEING AN ECHO CHAMBER. IDK HE AGREES WITH ME A LOT BUT IT DOESN'T ALWAYS FEEL INDEPENDENTLY DERIVED IF THAT MAKES SENSE.
DAN MAKES GOOD POSTS OR WHATEVER I'M SURE HE'S SAID SOME TOWNIE STUFF REGARDLESS HE'S GOOD AT MAKING POSTS.
WHAT THESE TWO SHARE, OTHER THAN KILLMA WAGON IN DECENT BUS POSITION, IS THEY JUST DON'T FEEL RIGHT. ESOTERIC INEXPLICABLE READS BUT SOMETHINGS OFF.
MANASI/KPACA TIER: COMPLETE LACK OF POSITIVES.
WHICH STILL LEAVES ME WITH A FAIRLY UNSATISFACTORY RE/VEZ
KAMI/ALBERT
DAN/WORST/MANASI/KPACA
WITH A SLIGHT PREFERENCE FOR THE TWO CLAIMED MANIPULATIVES FROM THE ORANGES (DAN/MANASI) FOR THE LYNCH.
I...UH... DON'T FEEL LIKE I REALLY ACCOMPLISHED ANYTHING WITH THIS POST EXCEPT MAYBE STATING THINGS MPRE SUCCINCTLY SO I DON'T GET ASKED TO REPEAT MYSELF FOR A PAGE OR TWO.
LET'S LYNCH SOMEONE. I'VE GOT 4 PEOPLE I WOULD VOTE. HOW BOUT YALL?
I can't really blame the like ???halp??? read on me given the gamestate. everyone who's playing feels towny with the exception of maybe Dias lmao it's kinda hard to throw down some wicked exceptional thought
also particularly @Tom fwiw I'd second that our night chat isn't like outside my scumrange. It did feel really good tho I'm just a lil nervous I read the associatives wrt Kami in particular in a pretty skewed way.
Manasi/Kpaca tier is ideal for lynching
also RE is like defs town beyond the mechanical tracking Cantrip thing. bussing a buddy in pole position would be pretty whack but even outside of that her reads have dripped with nuance which is crazy hard to fake and she's just solving this in a really smooth groovy way.
also, at the time I though I could do both, just asked osie if I could after, but my last post was my initial reason, this is just a bonus
Why did you think you could do both?
And no, that doesn't answer my question. If you were worried that I would do crazy stuff ( ), then it's more reasonable to hint at it EoD rather than the beginning.
I also don't think that analogy fits...
Idk... Like, if I have two abilities why wouldn't I be able to do both??, I've played games I could so I assumed I could here as well... well, no, it's a lot easier to do when I enter the game,i have kinda of a freedom that at EoD I don't have, and since this has majority I could be sleeping at EoD...
Hrmph. I like this answer.
Was hoping if you were scum, you would say something about the night delay
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I agree with Tom's line of thought that we should not lynch Albertino today. He's self resolving at this point: he's either attempted to protect RE/Tom, and will surely die, or be lynched for inexplicably still being alive and having poor behavior/predecessor. For my sake, I'm probably going to stop trying to behaviorally read the slot at this point.
As much as it sucks, what do we do if one of Kpaca/Manasi make it to f3 with their current levels of activity? Hope for the best? I'd think the best course of action is to resolve them sooner than later.
I will say that Vezok/I seem to have had pretty apt reads on each other over the years, but WIFOM.
This is not dan as the last scum. I've been scum with him and he plays to the end. This is just town dan who got swamped with real life.
If real life interference is a factor here, shouldn't his play be NAI? Or are you saying as scum, he'd play to the end despite his circumstances?
Also, can you confirm what your normalizer would do with regards to flavor stuff. Because your example from earlier seems to contradict with Dan publicly announcing his targets in a flavorful manner, and while I may know nothing about the flavor in this game, his ability does not sound like a "boost."
No arguments here. My activity should be NAI currently. I also had this exact train of thought re: my role, and went so far as to make a passing comment to Osie about it when I read the ability.
I am overdue in asking this, but @KA Why did you rush to putting Cantrip to L-1?
@Tom 855
@Albertino Since your read seems to be so mechanically driven, let me join you for a bit in the setupgaming. You don't see any town upside in making a role unblockable/redirectable? It effectively forces the scum's hand. On the other hand, why would this role exist for scum? It gives the town no recourse in investigative/blocking roles they think are scum.
Also, town protective roles basically have to exist. This is, in effect, a variation on that. Do you think they (my claimed role and, say, a doc) have to be mutually exclusive?
@worst Thanks for acknowledging me, but I don't think you really answered the question?
@worst: You mean in the posts I mentioned? You have two immediately subsequent posts in which you suggest that Albertino is scum and then you seem certain Dan is scum, and then a post where you assume another Day happens. It's incongruous.
@dan: Cantrip was clearly caught scum and I knew I wasn't the hammer, so I didn't give it much thought.
@RE: I'm considering your reasons for Dan, but I don't think they're solid compared to the powerlurking on Kpaca/Manasi or the problems I already noted on Worst.
Speaking of which, can we get a votecount?
I'm willing to accept Manasi as an alternative to Albertino. I still think Albertino is the most likely scum but we have time, and Manasi is more likely than Dan.
I agree with Tom's line of thought that we should not lynch Albertino today. He's self resolving at this point: he's either attempted to protect RE/Tom, and will surely die, or be lynched for inexplicably still being alive and having poor behavior/predecessor. For my sake, I'm probably going to stop trying to behaviorally read the slot at this point.
As much as it sucks, what do we do if one of Kpaca/Manasi make it to f3 with their current levels of activity? Hope for the best? I'd think the best course of action is to resolve them sooner than later.
I will say that Vezok/I seem to have had pretty apt reads on each other over the years, but WIFOM.
This is not dan as the last scum. I've been scum with him and he plays to the end. This is just town dan who got swamped with real life.
If real life interference is a factor here, shouldn't his play be NAI? Or are you saying as scum, he'd play to the end despite his circumstances?
Also, can you confirm what your normalizer would do with regards to flavor stuff. Because your example from earlier seems to contradict with Dan publicly announcing his targets in a flavorful manner, and while I may know nothing about the flavor in this game, his ability does not sound like a "boost."
No arguments here. My activity should be NAI currently. I also had this exact train of thought re: my role, and went so far as to make a passing comment to Osie about it when I read the ability.
I am overdue in asking this, but @KA Why did you rush to putting Cantrip to L-1?
@Tom 855
@Albertino Since your read seems to be so mechanically driven, let me join you for a bit in the setupgaming. You don't see any town upside in making a role unblockable/redirectable? It effectively forces the scum's hand. On the other hand, why would this role exist for scum? It gives the town no recourse in investigative/blocking roles they think are scum.
Also, town protective roles basically have to exist. This is, in effect, a variation on that. Do you think they (my claimed role and, say, a doc) have to be mutually exclusive?
@worst Thanks for acknowledging me, but I don't think you really answered the question?
@worst: You mean in the posts I mentioned? You have two immediately subsequent posts in which you suggest that Albertino is scum and then you seem certain Dan is scum, and then a post where you assume another Day happens. It's incongruous.
I do not have a high level of confidence in who the last scum is nor did I then
and I don't think it's incongruous at all, there's always a possibility there's another day
I refuse to play the game on the proviso that there's an exactly 0% chance that for example RE is a hidden scum God and is finessing us all so I'll always assume there's another day unless I'm like...60% or more sure of something I think, hard to put an exact number.
vote: Kpaca
At this point, would rather force him to claim.
"mass" claim now?
Why do you do his. I want to vote you now.
No, there's no need for a mass claim. Kpaca could just as easily be a wolf as anyone because he's just not posting. Force him to claim a role so he can be held accountable to it.
What reason do you have for suggesting mass claim?
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There were crowds of people pushing and shouting their way among the stalls, buying and selling, trading and bargaining. Huge wooden-wheeled carts streamed into the market square from the orchards, and long caravans bound for the four corners of the kingdom made ready to leave. Sacks and boxes were piled high waiting to be delivered to the ships that sailed the Sea of Knowledge, and off to one side a group of minstrels sang songs to the delight of those either too young or too old to engage in trade. But above all the noise and tumult of the crowd could be heard the merchants' voices loudly advertising their products.
"Get your fresh-picked ifs, ands, and buts."
"Hey-yaa, hey-yaa, hey-yaa, nice ripe wheres and whens."
"Juicy, tempting words for sale."
So many words and so many people! They were from every place imaginable and some places even beyond that, and they were all busy sorting, choosing, and stuffing things into cases. As soon as one was filled, another was begun. There seemed to be no end to the bustle and activity.
@worst: yes, of course, you don't want to completely deny the possibility of a subsequent Day. It just seemed a higher certainty than I would expect.
Going to give grapefruit about a day to enter the thread and do something. After that I'll decide where to vote for "secondary lynch". Probably just whoever is closer, since I don't really have a differentiator between my 3 candidates. Unless Grape scumslips or something.
Dan have you done your thing yet toDay? If not you should kick it off now.
Tom is creeping up in my town reads. Thinking about it, I'm having a hard time reconciling the idea of scum!Tom pushing so hard to not lynch a claimed doc. Tiers are now:
RE
vezok
dan + tom
kpaca/grape + manasi + worst
albertino
Anyway scattershot thoughts: Vez/Albertino has better than random odds to be t/t. Not a lock t/t fight but a pretty solid one. Never lynching either today.
The Worst reads purely. I have no idea of his scum competence but he's either great scum or just town for the way he handled Albertino. Need to check the thread flow to make sure it wasn't jumping in after the tide had started to turn.
I'm torn on Tom. His public chat and Cantrips inquisition feel so strongly unaligned but I can't shake my feeling that he was in a scummy place handling Killma on D1.
@Tom what sort of questions did Cantrip privately ask that you didn't use the thread to cryptically reply to?
I have zero impression from Mansai. Like I remember her claiming but I can't remember a single opinion she had.
KA is in a the shrug zone for me. I kinda sorta town read him but not really strongly enough to act on at all so he's just in my lynch pile despite not actively pinging me as scum.
Dan is sort of the opposite. I realized I'd internalized all the scum reads on him without being moved by the offered evidence. I had him at I'll lynch him without actively disliking anything he's done. And he doesn't read anything at all like his last scum game here but that probably wasn't a representative game.
For example, what if there's a watcher in this set up and you claim to have visited a player that they watched, and were not returned a result that you visited them? Then we would know you are lying. By avoiding full claims, you also avoid risk of exposure (if you are scum).
Claiming your targets via first votes is pretty cryptic, lol. When you said you couldn't target anyone n1, I thought there was some kind of restriction to your role, not that literally Root didn't choose anyone to target.
Question. Why did you vote me and tom? Why not just vote me?
If you can only choose one player a night to bodyguard/protect, why give up two names? Why not vote me day 2, then vote Tom today?
Also, why do it in the beginning of the phase, when things are bound to change throughout it?
And no, that doesn't answer my question. If you were worried that I would do crazy stuff (
I also don't think that analogy fits...
THEY FEEL REALLY SIMILAR TO ME.
NEITHER TOWN OR SCUM HAS ANY PARTICULAR OBLIGATION TO CONSIDER EVERYTHING. DIFFERENT THINGS MATTER TO DIFFERENT PEOPLE. I, FOR EXAMPLE, DON'T TEND TO CARE ABOUT PEOPLE'S ACTUAL CONTENT AS MUCH AS POSITIONING AND REACTIONS. SO ESPECIALLY WITH MY READS ON SOMEONE LIKE RE/DAN I'M IGNORING HUGE SWATHS OF THEIR PLAY. IT'S NOT AI FOR ME EITHER.
Dan I think maybe I just like that he finally reached out w something for me to do ): which I do need to do. Vez' anti-scumread of him is super interesting as well. either Vez is TMI on {Kami, Dan} or Vez is right and first impressions swing me towards the latter
See this post stinks but it's towny
I think my initial "yikes" read on Kami was jank. Gonna revisit my n1spam @ Tom
I'm a pretty chaotic player so I totally vibe that it takes a bit of adjustment to get used to me (particularly noting there is a strong sitemeta on MTGS of well laid out detailed posts)
You think we should be lynching me so mind throwing @ me what you think comes from a wolf? No disrespect but my progression in 809-816 is super normal me lmao
like I think there's a world where Dias is a wolf (I'm starting to get cold feet just a little bit as of those posts I was firmly in that camp). that conversation has already happened and people I townread have decided the Dias lynch is a bad idea in this phase so ya I'm cooling off it for now.
I like Vez' posting today a lot more than I expected to.
815 is a fluffpost.
I think you're either jarred by playstyle related stuff or maybe thinking about my angles there a few levels deeper than I was thinking about them because I'm kinda not sure what you take exception to there
what he's doing isn't an accurate scumtell imo (if blanket scumtells ever work) - do you think he's a wolf for other reasons or just feeling poorly treated?
it's ok to admit you don't feel like Vezok has given you the time of day you wish someone of the same alignment would. but I don't think you think he's a wolf outside of mechanical stuff and the fact you feel badly treated/derptunnelled?
like if Vez flips green where do we go next?
also if you're town..... as a scumread bg never state your targets in advance. if you protect who you said you would tonight were like forced to lynch you :?
it's kinda hard when your contributions are strongly mechanical tho like I can agreeeee or I can disagreeeee and one of us could be literally right or wrong and it shows absolutely no alignment solving thought process
that's kinda why I steer clear of mechanical stuff as regularly as possible
I'm telling you Vezok ccing makes a lot of sense from a town perspective. you're... really not seeing things my way
considering circular docs breaks the game I would cc that as either alignment (probably as town who thinks you're scum before scum who knows you're telling the truth tbh)..So I don't think that's a valid reason to strongly scumread him?
do you understand what I'm saying? if so do you disagree?
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"hey I'm a bg lol damn I missed all the NK targets and got to LyLo! silly me!" is a scumclaim.
you living to a hypothetical LyLo situation is massive -ev for town given you're widely scumread
I actually think he feels more like a townie who's overeager to use his power role (playstyle indicative over alignment indicative).
to be fair that same tell initially scumpinged me about his play -- along with his extremely likeable nature of course!
not scum and I don't think they'll change before lylo:
{tw}
{Tom, RE}
townreading:
{Kami} - need a response to my post last page
{Vezok} - high town equity imo but town!Kami can still = TMIscum!Vez. don't think we're in that world but it's not impossible.
which leaves like
AlbertinoDias - bit of twtbaw I'm not gonna lie but no flip would surprise me rn. I kinda hope he flips due to night actions so I don't have to sort him x(
garderin - I can feel myself compromising on this which is notttttt something I like doing but at the same time I haven't townread this slot at all and have really struggled w getting a concrete read on him like.. all game. I like his self meta reach out. not sure I've liked anything else tho.
kpaca/Manasi - had more presence + likeable content earlygame/d1 and have like.... droppedddddddd
You're right. I don't care anymore. Wake me up when you decide to lynch Albertino.
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AND. AND...
IF HE IS SCUM, HE CAN'T KILL RE. WHO WOULD THEN BE (AND PROBABLY IS REGARDLESS) TOWN TRACKER. HE CAN'T KILL ME I GUESS. HELL, HE REALLY CAN'T KILL YOU EITHER BECAUSE THEN WHO IS HE PUSHING?
SCUMALBERTINO WOULD HAVE PUT HIMSELF IN AN IMPOSSIBLE POSITION. AND HE'S NEVER SURVIVING LYLO AND WINNING THIS GAME. NEVER.
I DON'T CARE IF YOU WANT A PERFECT WIN. LYNCHING HIM *TODAY* IS WRONG. THE RISK OF HE'S SCUM IS TOO LOW AND THE REWARD IF HE'S TOWN IS TOO HIGH.
I'M HONESTLY TIRED OF EXPLAINING THIS.
THINK I'M GONNA STOP IVE LET MY OTHER READS SIT AND STAGNATE.
LET'S
VOTE MANASI
THAT POPIN WAS PRETTY WOLFY AND I'M NOT CURRENTLY BUYING NOT USING HER ROLE
but alas....i am a poser
vote: Manasi
EVERYONE ELSE HAS TWO ACTIONS TO GAIN [WHATEVER] OR, IF SCUM, FAKE SAME.
WE GET TO MASSCLAIM, PLUS ACTIONS. TOMORROW IS WHEN WE BREAK THE GAME OPEN.
SURE IT WOULD BE GREAT TO GET A CLEAN SWEEP. BUT IT WOULD ALMOST BE A SHAME TO MISS OUT ON THAT.
AND THAT BRINGS ME TO DAN AND MANASI. THEY'VE ALREADY CLAIMED, AND THEY CAN **** ***** UP. AND THEY BOTH HAVE A FAIR AMOUNT OF SCUM EQUITY ANYWAY,
IF YOU TAKE OUT CLAIMS, I'M NOT SURE EITHER IS MORE LIKELY THAN ALBERTINO. POSSIBLY IM PUTTING TOO MUCH STOCK IN MY GUT ON DAN. PERHAPS IF I TRIED HARDER I COULD FIND THAT TOWN SPARK IN MANASI IF SHE IS TOWN I OUGHT TO BE ABLE TO SEE IT.
I'M STILL MOSTLY QUESTION MARKS IN THIS GAME. IT'S IMPORTANT WE CLEAR ONE OUT, BUT I FIND IT PRETTY UNLIKELY WE'LL END IT TODAY. BUT THAT'S FINE. TOMORROW WILL BE GREAT.
VEZOK SAYS HE WANTS TO MAKE MEMORIES HE SHOULD VOTE NO LYNCH LOL
RE/VEZOK TIER: JUST DOESN'T FIT ON THE TEAM
RE: TRACKED CANTRIP, KILLMA TREATED LIKE TOWN
VEZOK: REALLY EXPOSED KILLMA
KAMI/ALBERT TIER: NO PLAN IF SCUM
KAMI: HAS ONE POST TRAT WAS LIKE "YEAH SURE KILLMA IS SCUMMY BUT LET'S DO THIS INSTEAD. NO OTHER SIGNS HE KNEW WHO WAS SCUM AT ANY POINT
ALBERT: SEE #919. NO WIN CONDITION IF SCUM. SIDE NOTE, THIS EXPIRES TOMORROW. HE'S TOO BIG A QUESTION MARK.
WORST/DAN TIER: VOTED KILLMA, BUT IM EH ABOUT IT. REALISTICALLY NO LESS LIKELY TO BE SCUM THAN THE NEXT TIER, BUT THERE ARE POSITIVES. WORST FELT REAL WHEN WE TALKED AT NIGHT, BUT I'M AFRAID HE WAS JUST BEING AN ECHO CHAMBER. IDK HE AGREES WITH ME A LOT BUT IT DOESN'T ALWAYS FEEL INDEPENDENTLY DERIVED IF THAT MAKES SENSE.
DAN MAKES GOOD POSTS OR WHATEVER I'M SURE HE'S SAID SOME TOWNIE STUFF REGARDLESS HE'S GOOD AT MAKING POSTS.
WHAT THESE TWO SHARE, OTHER THAN KILLMA WAGON IN DECENT BUS POSITION, IS THEY JUST DON'T FEEL RIGHT. ESOTERIC INEXPLICABLE READS BUT SOMETHINGS OFF.
MANASI/KPACA TIER: COMPLETE LACK OF POSITIVES.
WHICH STILL LEAVES ME WITH A FAIRLY UNSATISFACTORY
RE/VEZ
KAMI/ALBERT
DAN/WORST/MANASI/KPACA
WITH A SLIGHT PREFERENCE FOR THE TWO CLAIMED MANIPULATIVES FROM THE ORANGES (DAN/MANASI) FOR THE LYNCH.
I...UH... DON'T FEEL LIKE I REALLY ACCOMPLISHED ANYTHING WITH THIS POST EXCEPT MAYBE STATING THINGS MPRE SUCCINCTLY SO I DON'T GET ASKED TO REPEAT MYSELF FOR A PAGE OR TWO.
LET'S LYNCH SOMEONE. I'VE GOT 4 PEOPLE I WOULD VOTE. HOW BOUT YALL?
I'm down with Manasi being lynched though.
Vote Manasi
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also particularly @Tom fwiw I'd second that our night chat isn't like outside my scumrange. It did feel really good tho I'm just a lil nervous I read the associatives wrt Kami in particular in a pretty skewed way.
Manasi/Kpaca tier is ideal for lynching
also RE is like defs town beyond the mechanical tracking Cantrip thing. bussing a buddy in pole position would be pretty whack but even outside of that her reads have dripped with nuance which is crazy hard to fake and she's just solving this in a really smooth groovy way.
Was hoping if you were scum, you would say something about the night delay
As much as it sucks, what do we do if one of Kpaca/Manasi make it to f3 with their current levels of activity? Hope for the best? I'd think the best course of action is to resolve them sooner than later.
I will say that Vezok/I seem to have had pretty apt reads on each other over the years, but WIFOM.
No arguments here. My activity should be NAI currently. I also had this exact train of thought re: my role, and went so far as to make a passing comment to Osie about it when I read the ability.
I am overdue in asking this, but @KA Why did you rush to putting Cantrip to L-1?
@Tom 855
@Albertino Since your read seems to be so mechanically driven, let me join you for a bit in the setupgaming. You don't see any town upside in making a role unblockable/redirectable? It effectively forces the scum's hand. On the other hand, why would this role exist for scum? It gives the town no recourse in investigative/blocking roles they think are scum.
Also, town protective roles basically have to exist. This is, in effect, a variation on that. Do you think they (my claimed role and, say, a doc) have to be mutually exclusive?
@worst Thanks for acknowledging me, but I don't think you really answered the question?
oh and I'm sigging this after the game
@dan: Cantrip was clearly caught scum and I knew I wasn't the hammer, so I didn't give it much thought.
@RE: I'm considering your reasons for Dan, but I don't think they're solid compared to the powerlurking on Kpaca/Manasi or the problems I already noted on Worst.
Speaking of which, can we get a votecount?
I'm willing to accept Manasi as an alternative to Albertino. I still think Albertino is the most likely scum but we have time, and Manasi is more likely than Dan.
At this point, would rather force him to claim.
I do not have a high level of confidence in who the last scum is nor did I then
and I don't think it's incongruous at all, there's always a possibility there's another day
I refuse to play the game on the proviso that there's an exactly 0% chance that for example RE is a hidden scum God and is finessing us all so I'll always assume there's another day unless I'm like...60% or more sure of something I think, hard to put an exact number.
No, there's no need for a mass claim. Kpaca could just as easily be a wolf as anyone because he's just not posting. Force him to claim a role so he can be held accountable to it.
What reason do you have for suggesting mass claim?
Grapefruit21 (2) - ganderin_dan, RE1031
AlbertinoDias (1) - KamikazeArchon
ganderin_dan (1) - Manasi
vezokpiraka (1) - AlbertinoDias
Not voting: Grapefruit21
Day 3 Lynch Deadline will be Saturday, October 13th, at 2359 MST. There will be a Twilight period (No voting) of ??? hours to account for the host having a life outside of Mafia.
With 9 players, it takes 5 to lynch.
Grapefruit21 has replaced kpaca AGAIN, this time permanently.
Do NOT discuss the circumstances around this replacement
Going to give grapefruit about a day to enter the thread and do something. After that I'll decide where to vote for "secondary lynch". Probably just whoever is closer, since I don't really have a differentiator between my 3 candidates. Unless Grape scumslips or something.
Dan have you done your thing yet toDay? If not you should kick it off now.
Tom is creeping up in my town reads. Thinking about it, I'm having a hard time reconciling the idea of scum!Tom pushing so hard to not lynch a claimed doc. Tiers are now:
RE
vezok
dan + tom
kpaca/grape + manasi + worst
albertino
Anyway scattershot thoughts: Vez/Albertino has better than random odds to be t/t. Not a lock t/t fight but a pretty solid one. Never lynching either today.
The Worst reads purely. I have no idea of his scum competence but he's either great scum or just town for the way he handled Albertino. Need to check the thread flow to make sure it wasn't jumping in after the tide had started to turn.
I'm torn on Tom. His public chat and Cantrips inquisition feel so strongly unaligned but I can't shake my feeling that he was in a scummy place handling Killma on D1.
@Tom what sort of questions did Cantrip privately ask that you didn't use the thread to cryptically reply to?
KA is in a the shrug zone for me. I kinda sorta town read him but not really strongly enough to act on at all so he's just in my lynch pile despite not actively pinging me as scum.
Dan is sort of the opposite. I realized I'd internalized all the scum reads on him without being moved by the offered evidence. I had him at I'll lynch him without actively disliking anything he's done. And he doesn't read anything at all like his last scum game here but that probably wasn't a representative game.