@RE
I still don't really understand how osie/me has one wolf or the true reasoning why you listed the 1 wolf in x/y/z thing even after reading your explanation but I'm also not really myself. Usually when those dichotomies are built there's more substancial reasonings behind it? Like you just list that if I was town there's more merit to my osie vote so he's worse but I don't really follow how that makes sense since my vote was pretty empty at the time. Is this just based on how you feel about the rest of the game or something? It was the first one listed so I don't get it.
The placement of my dichotomies was irrelevant. I was thinking out loud. I honestly have a bit of hard time even calling them dichotomies, because they're based on feeling. It's not like I picked a interaction and read it as T/W. It's more like, I wolfread one of the slots, or both of the slots, but something says to me that they wouldn't both be wolves. With you and Osie, I lean towards Osie being town, but it's a read I'm not confident in. If I knew the motivation behind scumreading him came from town, then I might reconsider.
I wouldn't automatically go down the list and say because one of them flipped town, we should lynch the other. I still greatly suspect one player over the other and it'd force me to reconsider a lot.
Thoughts on Titus/Osie interactions this page? Osie being on the suspect list of many yet not being voted?
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I see you were more active today but I didn't really like your focus with Titus, it felt just weird to me and I mostly skimmed the other posts.
I read the giant post too fast (...)
I had this strange feeling that it actually made Osie townie. It was weird, but a weird thing for scum to get caught up in if Titus is town and he was trying to frame her based on something that had to be purely a misunderstanding. But then I think I'm reading too much into things and if there's an opportunity to frame, scum will take it. It just felt like a weird angle of approach for scum to take. ~.~
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I will be out most of today. Can we get some wagon momentum though? We have until the first to get a lynch but the more we can unite the better the odds of scum lynch.
The creature furiously flips through the pages of several fantasy fiction books, seeking inspiration to keep their gimmick alive in the face of seemingly interminable phases
The creature preens under your attention, puffing out its prodigious chest and fluttering its wings
Tenacious, not aggressive in the way that I typically conflate with scum, but in the sense you want to get to the bottom of your concern. It seems like you want information, not like you want to push a narrative. (OoC-it's obscenely hot, thanks a lot Al Gore)
I don't really get Tubba's reasoning for Townreading me: I haven't been as solvey as I would be normally but I'm getting there. @Tubba Fett is there anything you describe myself or RE as anything other than solvey?
What reaction to tubas reads did you have, and did you ask them?
I thought his reads were clean and reasonable. I disagreed with the placement of Scarlet, but I could see why he'd think she was solvey (lots of questions). With Grape, I guess I would have liked to see more to it than meta, but he already expressed difficulty in reading him. And I know from experience that Grape's scum game is near identical to his town and what sold him out was his activity levels (and perhaps a bit of TMI).
I mean, yeah, I should ask him questions. But they'd feel a bit pointless because what I'd really be asking was for him to be more active.
By all means, ask me questions! I'm an introvert by nature and tend to sit back and observe far more than I probably should. I'm a terrible day one player because I lack confidence in my reads, so engage with me on it.
My slot felt uncomfortable with your stable "readlists way too early" post based on basically most of the way you gave your reads. You talk about always reading tubba scum and then read him scum for what looks like reasons you would always read him scum.
Poof can you clarify the bolded. It's probably syntactical but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around what you're trying to say there. (At your leisure, feel better.)
Okay I'm back and haven't read anything since I dropped off the face of the earth. I gather from skimming this page I'm still the center of attention, which is understandable but silly.
Activity is a tell for me, but vanishing for days at a time isn't the sort of activity tell I have. I don't slank my way out of the game as scum, I just don't engage as much. Look at pirates or tokens for examples of this. I'm posting but I'm mostly limited to one or two posts per day.
I'm at work this morning and at this point it's slow going to try and do some catchup while I can.
@RE can you give me a game where you were town leader? I'm not used to you being this central day 1. In my experience you usually poke around the edges.
Quote from RE »
@Ara Simply, I suspect Foopme. Osie is lean town just by a minuscule amount due to meta and slight tone. Otherwise, there's nothing specific in this game that suggests he's town to me. However, if Foopme is town, there may be validity in his vote on Osie and I was never too happy with my current read on Osie. With Grape/ScarletC, Grape is probably scum. Has nothing to do with Scarlet honestly (though she needs to reiterate the reasoning behind her townread of Grape, because I had no idea what she was referring to). The way he voted me though, it was as if he was using the truth to frame me, aka, my reads on Tubba and ScarletC. He also completely ignored my read on Foopme (possible alliance with Foopme). Fill in the blank with the final four low posters. Didn't care for Marko's catch up. With his read on Scarlet and me, I almost wanted to lock him as scum.
This feels like such an unnatural way to build a world. Foopme is likely scum, but if he flips town then his suspicion must have been onto something despite feeling so wrong that it's part of your suspicion?
I'm also assuming the Scarlet you don't like Marko's catch up on is SCelestial?
@Tubba this has been done to death, but why are you concerned about reading me? What changed from F&E where you were very comfortable reading me?
Quote from ScarletRage »
Foop, this sort of comment although genuine on the surface, pings. You appeared to be completely fine with my rapid vote changes and pressure until I changed to Scarlet. The VCA comments I might let slide (normally I let VCA determine vote context) but it seems like you are more interested as a whole in dissuading me. You even go as far as to say Tammy is basically an IC when I am not pursuing her today. Also, there is no such thing as "basically an IC". She is townread by most of tbe playerbase though. My question to you is why are you suddenly interested in my SC reasoning when you were not as interested in my grape reasoning?
I'm not going to ignore your question though because it is selective and hopefully this answers RE as well.
I opened with a vote on ScarletCelestial about being the one true Scarlet. Scarlet ignores the RVS. Instead, she asks me about my Marko change and implies its RVS rather than me building wagons to get going.
SC intercedes with my fight with Tammy. Her question doesn't seem like one of sorting. If she was curious, she would wonder why I found Tammy's answers ok enough not to fight. Instead, she feels akin to coaching Tammy or trying to rile us both up. I don't know which.
Then, there's more questioning of the appropriateness of my methods. This seems wierd from someone who was saying umprompted that I caught them twice before.
I mention to SC about how good she expects me to be. She answers only the other context in the post.
At this point, I am thinking Scarlet is scum. She again asks about my Marko vote. Wanting it off. This flags partners with the amount of effort Scarlet is going through to peel for MarkoRaj.
I vote Ara. Largely ignored.
I vote Grape due to the suspicion.
SC dances with Empoof on wanting to vote Grape. Flagged more as poss partners. Mostly ignores Vox and me on Ara.
When I postulate my team, SC says they'd expect more votes on Ara. Deflection? Distancing? She could have lent her vote to help sort Ara after Vox suspected him. Instead, she largely ignored it focusing on Osie. Why when I speculate my theory should I be voting Ara?
Then she expresses frustration over Ara townread.
This is why I am voting Scarlet. There's little sorting and a lot of defending that makes no sense.
I'm not familiar with the term sorting. What do you mean by it? Anyway this is an interesting game flow read, I'll try to take a look at SCelestial's effort to diffuse Ara vs the Marko wagon. Feels like those should have been treated pretty similarly, feels vaguely pockety towards Vox (or pocketed by I suppose). I remember SC seeming townie but I don't really remember why I liked her as much as I did.
Loud sniffles and the occasional outright sob come from a secluded corner of the library. Slowly peering around a bookshelf, you behold the creature sitting cross legged, a tear-stained copy of The Notebook in it's claws.
@Tubba, I would love your theory/reads list. Day 1 is usually a bit crap shooty. So just factor in that caveat. Theories would help read you.
I've provided my reads such as they are.
I don't have any teams building in my head, I think one of the high volume posters is scum, one of the low posters is scum. Nobody seems to be really pushing a case, or at least pushing it far. That seems weird to me.
If that's anything to work with, it seems scum is willing to play it a little softer, more willing to wait for town to misstep. That seems like a more experienced line of play, with a glass of wine to indicate the possibility of day chat, or multiple experienced scum players.
@Grape, mostly thread presence and concern that I'm missing something other players aren't. In F&E you seemed a lot more engaged, asked more questions and driving more dialog.
@RE can you give me a game where you were town leader? I'm not used to you being this central day 1. In my experience you usually poke around the edges.
I think it depends on my mood, which is impossible to explain. I wouldn't call myself town leader. I'm kind of in my own world right now...
This was my latest completed town game: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/17882-Anonymous-Matrix6-Cluedo-Mafia
Already linked it, but yeah. (played as Miss Peach)
I take into account that I won't be good at reading certain people, or others will be better at reading them, is why it might feel unnatural. I try to put trust in other player's reads, but only if their alignment is clear. Foopme kinda reminds me of DenjaX. Their town and scum game aren't terribly different because when forming reads, they don't explain their process so much, except their reads tend to be very accurate. I don't know much about Foopme but I get the feeling he is like Denja in that way. However it's a double edged blade, where leniency towards a player due to their style and skill gives them more freedom as scum. I'd rather not give that freedom so easily when I've never played with Foopme before. And that he's been more trolly than I'm comfortable with. The more I think about it though, I'm having trouble considering either of you or Scarlet as town, so those dichotomies were definitely fluid thoughts.
@Tubba
I'm an introvert too. Sometimes it reflects in my games. But I've been feeling very not myself lately.
Let's see. Where would you vote now, if you had to?
Earlier you said that I answered two questions posed at another player, I only recalled one at the time. Can you point to the question I answered (not the one directed at Osie by ScarletC)?
The only other game I played with Voxx, he was a real engine pushing the thread along. His activity seems to have dropped off but I really can't talk about that myself, so neutral for now. Scarlet Rage should probably be a little higher in my rankings, with decent activity and I like how they've engaged with the thread so far, but I'm sheeping players who seem to know her better and side eyeing the slot for now.
I don't think you should be holding yourself to the same standards as Voxx in terms of activity, if you are reading him based off of meta and if your town play is of a lower post count typically. His activity is explained by health issues, but I don't see here that you've taken that part into acknowledgement. No question realy, just an observation, but maybe you can clarify your thought process here.
Which players are you sheeping on your read of Scarlet Rage? I've not actually seen many players who are scumreading her at the moment (except Scarlet, but that was more recent, I think?), but I'm definitely tired and probably remembering wrong?
You also said Grape seemed like good old Grape in that post. But now you are saying otherwise. What changed your mind?
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The creature looks up in response to your question. It seemed quite engrossed with its previous activity, which upon further inspection was the ritualistic sacrifice of a small mouse.
I had no idea Voxx was away for medical concerns. I missed that somehow, hope they feel better. I thought it was Empoof who wasn't feeling well?
It's less a scumread and more of a suspicion based on interactions, with you, Tammy, and SC. You all seem familiar with Rage as a player, and seem to be not townreading them. I thought it'd be safer to place them as null and watch, but as I mentioned it wasn't a strong read/reason.
Grape's early game seemed typical, engaging with the thread, asking questions and providing feedback. He picked up some votes, and kinda disappeared. So, basically it's similar to SR, in that I'd rather play it safe and not just townlean Grape, to try and be a little more critical of what they're saying.
Voxx made the announcement earlier. I was more interested though in your meta read of Voxx and why your own activity levels would have influenced it.
I've never played with Scarlet Rage before (I mentioned this when I voted Grape). I think their playstyle is interesting and right now I'd rather let it be, besides I happen to share similar scumreads to them despite getting there through different means. She had a connection with Tammy early on that seemed like genuine T/T, and I'll have to review this when I have more time during the daylight hours, but I'm not liking ScarletC's progression on her (or Osie).
I like that final thought. I don't know how much it says about your alignment (yet, or if it ever will), but that's a good thought to have.
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Voxx made the announcement earlier. I was more interested though in your meta read of Voxx and why your own activity levels would have influenced it.
I'm tired though and I think I'm nitpicking here. I understand why you might have included that bit, since it would seem unfair to judge another player based on their activity if your own is lacking too.
But your read on Grape is similar to that, no?
*collapses*
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Okay, here's train of thought notes on pages 1-3. I'll get back to this process at some point and move it on. Questions are preceded by bolded green usernames.
@Troba - What did you mean by "typecasted into flavor" in your first post?
I think one thing I particularly didn't like which started a scumread on Troba for me was the jumping onto RE as a second vote as early as she did. It read as trying to start a wagon on someone who still mostly screams town to me. I also saw things like "i feel like this was way too much of a thoughtdump" (#13) and got very concerned that they were trying too hard to cover their bases and be friendly to people. By itself, it's not a strong read though. That came later after reading through a bunch of posts.
Page 1 Empoof is one of the laziest posters I've ever seen… I like the egg thing a little, though.
Based on the early light townread on Scarlet and its kinda offhanded lightness (doesn't feel manipulative) I think that unless RE is scarily good at pulling off an innocent tone, Scarlet is the only one of those two who might be scum.
Similar innocence shines through in Tammy's posting.
I generally assume that people who moderate mafia areas are good at the game until I see otherwise (and this is Empoof we're talking about anyways), so Troba's light push of a townread on Empoof in #44 is kinda meh.
Why are Empoof's posts so useless? Jeez.
Moving onto page 2…
This post really rubs me the wrong way and makes me suspicious of a Grape/Empoof team.
Ara's enthusiasm is concerning, but not necessarily AI.
#69 feels like the sort of faffing people around that some players love to do as scum.
@Anyone: (#71) Is Voxx usually so blasé about being intentionally low effort?
Speaking of which…
@Voxxicus: What are you referring to when you say "Intentionally throttling back as town?" Who does that as town for in-game reasons?
Empoof and Troba are probably not S/S unless one of them is leading the other a bit.
Now that I know that Troba is wordy by style, I think i like 85 a lot more.
But voting for zero-posters still sucks. A lot. And I'm going to get scum pings from anybody who was doing that.
Note to self: Pay attention to Voxx's posts on page 3.
Titus' post on Tammy feels really noncommittal.
Moving on to page 3…
2 suspicious people on zero-poster? Yeah, sounds about right, RE.
And then Titus too… Does an entire scumteam jump on one player? Ehh…
Tubba's post is… Uggh. I'mma set him aside for later since I don't like reading Tubba on a good day.
Maybe this is a rhetorical question, but since when are wagon momentum and VCA "very peculiar?" They seem relatively normal to me.
And… caught up to my first readlist. I think Voxx would be lower, Troba and Tubba would potentially both be on Neutral. Empoof is lower because rereading his posts are really too damn fluffy. Grape is more just okay.
Titus has been playing since before 2013. And on BBCode-based forums, too. I'm not happy about "I wish I could quote just parts" when I can pull up a random old game she was in and see her multiquoting and quoting parts of posts. This sounds like an excuse to not fully respond to things, only the parts about her and one other person (Troba).
Voxx's vote on Ara seemed to be for bad reasoning, as I suggested earlier. But I like the "Not waiting 3 days" a bit. The explanation in #132 actually made me feel worse about it, though.
Why was Titus trying to maintain a wagon on a zero-poster? That's awful. Also, is this defense of Ara? Titus+Ara scumteam ping.
Titus is leanscum on TAMMY? Tammy is one of the two towniest players in the game. This is either really ballsy scum or really wrong town.
I like Voxx's 134, though. Solid post.
I'm not sure if I like Celeste underselling themself or not.
Tammy is adorable. More people should be like Tammy.
I feel like Celeste's questions could be summed up by "Explain more."
Huh. Troba and I have the same reads on both RE and Tammy.
I wouldn't even call Empoof over the top, just fluffy.
#148 - Is Celeste even reading the posts to which she's responding? Tammy already explained the last question, the first question feels obvious, the second question feels mostly obvious… What's the point?
I want to hear what Tammy has to say on Titus throughout this game since I think Tammy's well positioned to provide good input there.
Also
about that Titus read
MU has a function that allows you to highlight part of a post, hit quote, and it only quotes that bit. Doesn't exist here
Might not be what you're referring to but if you're gonna shade someone for that little bit probably something I should point out
Maybe I'm right in my dichotomies but wrong in my first choices
Or maybe the team is just Scarlet/Osie/Grape
Who tf knows
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@Grape, mostly thread presence and concern that I'm missing something other players aren't. In F&E you seemed a lot more engaged, asked more questions and driving more dialog.
That doesn't make any sense to what I asked you. You were saying I was "good ol' town grape", but you didn't trust yourself to read me objectively. You had never expressed having difficultly reading me before. Why would you here? As for thread presence I've absolutely been less engaged. F&E was immediately fun for me because I enjoyed the playerbase so much and wasn't busy in real life.
@RE can you give me a game where you were town leader? I'm not used to you being this central day 1. In my experience you usually poke around the edges.
I think it depends on my mood, which is impossible to explain. I wouldn't call myself town leader. I'm kind of in my own world right now...
This was my latest completed town game: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/17882-Anonymous-Matrix6-Cluedo-Mafia
Already linked it, but yeah. (played as Miss Peach)
I take into account that I won't be good at reading certain people, or others will be better at reading them, is why it might feel unnatural. I try to put trust in other player's reads, but only if their alignment is clear. Foopme kinda reminds me of DenjaX. Their town and scum game aren't terribly different because when forming reads, they don't explain their process so much, except their reads tend to be very accurate. I don't know much about Foopme but I get the feeling he is like Denja in that way. However it's a double edged blade, where leniency towards a player due to their style and skill gives them more freedom as scum. I'd rather not give that freedom so easily when I've never played with Foopme before. And that he's been more trolly than I'm comfortable with. The more I think about it though, I'm having trouble considering either of you or Scarlet as town, so those dichotomies were definitely fluid thoughts.
The first part surprises me. It feels coming back into the thread like you and SRage are the organizing presence. And that felt wrong to me based off what I knew about you from our experience together. I'd never seen you take a town leadership role.
Anyway why did you bring up SCelestial in realation to the Foopme read? She wasn't part of that "dichotomy", Osie was.
557 confuses me. I have no clue why Osie thinks it's significant and less why you (RE) think it's lock scum.
Cool I have bronchitis and had some sort of food poisoning that felt more like death because of it. Modern medicine killing it.
I'm heading into work today. I'm going to start advocating for grape/osie/maybe marko wagons today barring something in these recent responses being exceptionally townie. If you think I'm scum then go ahead and throw me in there too but yeah I'm almost positive there's some sort of scum inside of there.
Titus is probably town since her scum team would be something like titus/(marko/ara)/(RE/Tubba) or something stupid and she would be actively playing really weird with one of her scum partners since I really don't think she's with osie and has more of a chance but still not really with grape. If I start reading the people she's more likely partners with worse than maybe I'll rescind this but for now (in italics) she's argued and done things with people that have distanced her from where I'm looking.
After work I'll decide if I go ham tonight or not but feeling a lot better after these drugs
@Osie "My slot" refers to this being a team mafia game where I get to discuss things with my homies. Nothing wrt subbing out or whatever, not sure why it pinged you but makes me feel better for pushing your slot
@Tubba try rereading the sentence over a couple times honestly, I started rephrasing it but ended up typing roughly the same thing.
Feeling slightly better about tubba too, not really sure why. Tonally I think they're just questioning things in a way I'd expect a town to.
Lynch Marko Come out and play. You're too good at the game to be a non-entity and at least when I don't know what's going on I post about it
If I haven't fully caught up with all the posts with my thoughts after tonight someone with thread sway should actually push me into the ground (looking somewhat at RE) since I A.) really need to have more drive in this game and B.) this isn't what I'd call a typical town game from me, and pushing off gathering information is a slight scum tell for me that hasn't been talked about by basically anyone from what I've gathered.
The first part surprises me. It feels coming back into the thread like you and SRage are the organizing presence. And that felt wrong to me based off what I knew about you from our experience together. I'd never seen you take a town leadership role.
Anyway why did you bring up SCelestial in realation to the Foopme read? She wasn't part of that "dichotomy", Osie was.
557 confuses me. I have no clue why Osie thinks it's significant and less why you (RE) think it's lock scum.
Last time Osie complimented me he was scum. That post reads pocket attempt all over.
Again, they're not really dichotomies. They're based on the smallest of interactions. Scarlet's read on you is bizarre to me (and not in the neutral way). Your interactions with her didn't feel W/W since you were overly defensive of her. I brought up that one to demonstrate how the dichotomies are really just fluid thoughts (and I was thinking maybe I was just wrong on Foopme and both him and Osie were town), but that was before Osie posted.
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The chair you're sitting in starts to feel uncomfortably warm. You leap up just as it burst into flames, to the sound of chortling guttural laughter
@Grape, I've explained the read already. You looked typical early on, accrued some votes and your activity dropped off. None of the games we've played have you ever dropped off like that. That's not AI, but in conjunction with other players voting/suspecting you, I'm leery of just clearing you and placed you as neutral to prod me into being more critical of you. I'm not scum reading you at present, and it seems weird that you are fixating on this.
@RE, the other question I referenced was posed to me. If I had to vote right now, gun to head, it'd be Osie. They are an experienced player that've pinged me. Experienced players intimidate me, intimidate isn't exactly the word I want, but I'm having trouble phrasing it.
Last time Osie complimented me he was scum. That post reads pocket attempt all over.
You say one nice thing about someone... Wasn't even that much of a compliment. Just putting you up to a much stronger townread. Oh well, I guess this can be yet another mislynch under my belt.
Again, they're not really dichotomies. They're based on the smallest of interactions.
Why present them as dichotomies then? Presenting as dichotomies implies a surety that you now don't seem to have. I'm confused.
They are an experienced player that've pinged me. Experienced players intimidate me, intimidate isn't exactly the word I want, but I'm having trouble phrasing it.
I'm one of the least experienced players in this thread, if not the least experienced. I only started playing at the beginning of 2017 and the vast majority of my handful of games have been mislynches or losses. I've only rolled scum twice, got incredibly lucky the first time and got even more lucky the second time until the game went off the rails. I may have some experience with setup design and hosting, but I've probably played in less than 20 games over the past year and a half. I would not really call myself an experienced player. My reads are usually at least half wrong, I go off of consensus as either alignment when I'm stuck, and I focus so much on behavior that most other methods of analysis are experimental flops when I try to use them.
I don't know about you personally, but any other single player in this thread has much more experience than I do. I'm just along for the ride trying to fake it until I make it and maybe have a little bit of fun while I'm at it. Part of the reason why I've been less active in this game out of my current games is that I'm kinda tired of rolling town and then getting scumread into an early mislynch for my playstyle. Maybe I should just go back to hosting only after this game because this is depressing.
RE might have legitimate thoughts behind her read of me, not sure. I'm going to come back to the thread during break with an attempt at a more positive outlook on this game and hopefully see better reasons than I'm seeing for reads on various people from like half the thread right now.
I just went through yet another game where I was scumread by most of the thread and we lost miserably. I don't really need this to be yet another repeat experience.
Titus, you've been asking for readlists, but have you given one?
I don't really give readwalls. I can but I generally put out theories. Observe ---> Test ---> Conclude.
For instance, I observed that you either misunderstood or deliberately ignored the three slots I was asking you about. I was asking you to play Lynch Kill Mason with Empoif Vox and Osie, not the whole playbase.
SGrape, Sorting = Drawing Conclusions from what she asks.
I lost a post to spam and anyways, did this while waiting for someone else to post:
Not much particular order:
Trobairitz - General posting
Tammy
RE1031 - Mindmelds seemed to be a thing!!!
Empoof
Tier of people I definitely need to ISO because I'm getting their posts mixed up with someone else's in my brain for obvious reasons:
ScarletCelestial
Tier of people who I suspect but my team doesn't:
Osieorb18
Haven't noticed that much, null I suppose(probably at least one here):
Grapefruit
MarkoRaj
Tubba
Something I'll talk about in about half a day (12 hours) or so Vote: ScarletRage
In his own tier until he confirms he hasn't gone blind:
Voxxicus
This is also probably outdated; however, good news that the game I was hosting has ended so I've one less game to follow! Unfortunately, I'm still multigaming though; going to try to be around a lot more!! I've had this thing typed out for at least a day now so just going to post it and get back to you in a bit!
Problems with this vote count? PM me or DM me on Discord for the fastest response. Posting something in-thread will probably get my attention eventually.
Why the fast change? I think there's a chance they both are scum but I wanna documeng this for later.
I just would rather lynch Grape. With ScarletC, there's more of a threshold of me being wrong, I feel. I'm scumreading a lot of the things she's asking but part of me is reluctant to get rid of her this early.
(Assuming the wagon I'm on is the one that lynches)
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@RE, the other question I referenced was posed to me. If I had to vote right now, gun to head, it'd be Osie. They are an experienced player that've pinged me. Experienced players intimidate me, intimidate isn't exactly the word I want, but I'm having trouble phrasing it.
Can you link it please? I can't find it, from what I recall a couple days ago when I actually searched for it.
Can you also provide specific examples to where Osie gave you a different impression to the one he's leaving you now?
And to clarify, when you say "intimidate," do you mean you are not currently voting him because he intimidates you?
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This is a scum progression here. The Osie to me progression is fine (the reasoning isn't) but the SCelestial diversion isn't. It's voting for the sake of being different which RE and RE basically admits to it explaining her hopping back to her safe space this game; calling me scum for pushing her early. Plus reasoning for moving off Osie is just awful.
Also @RE if you're reading this I'd still like to know which Scarlet was the subject of the Marko catch up causing your Marko read.
@SCelestial So my explanation for why I'm disconnected is an AtE but my being disconnected is scummy. Fun.
@Ara based on your list you don't seem to be mindmelding with RE much (outside of Tammy, who is probably spewed town at this point). Where are you seeing mindmelds?
@SRage So in context your scum read of SCelestial is that she's asking a ton of questions but not doing anything with them. And her reads seem to be separate from those questions and largely defensive?
Also it's weird the amount of people expressing suspicion of Marko and how few votes he's had this game. I don't think I've read anyone say anything positive about him but Foopme is the only "vote" on him and it wasn't even a real vote.
@Ara
Could you talk with your team and tell me where the differing opinions on Osie come from? There are uh... rules about quoting your team and talking about what's inside your team chat so check those. I'm curious where they were unable to convince you otherwise, you think you have a better pulse on the thread than them?
@Silvercry
I'm also Voting Markoraj from earlier... have some intent to vote osie rn so wasn't unwelcome to see it that way.
@Silvercry
I'm also Voting Markoraj from earlier... have some intent to vote osie rn so wasn't unwelcome to see it that way.
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This is a scum progression here. The Osie to me progression is fine (the reasoning isn't) but the SCelestial diversion isn't. It's voting for the sake of being different which RE and RE basically admits to it explaining her hopping back to her safe space this game; calling me scum for pushing her early. Plus reasoning for moving off Osie is just awful.
You didn't even take a stab at why I decided to vote Scarlet. Do you not care? I'll explain it by tomorrow, but I felt what I quoted was significant and sometimes it feels like no one is paying attention.
It wasn't simply because you suspected me. You used false reasoning in your case against me, which you never addressed.
Where did I admit to voting Scarlet for the sake of being different? Please answer this question by actually quoting the post I did so + explain why.
Did you miss where I've been suspecting ScarletC for most of this game? How was it a "diversion"?
Contextually, you should have been able to figure that it was ScarletCelestial causing my Marko read. He breezed over two high posters and was unable to form a read on them. For some reason I remembered it as "I've seen nothing townie from them," but the read wasn't as bad as that. If it had been something along those lines though, I wouldn't have bought the read, because it'd feel like he was ignoring us rather than actually trying to read us.
Honestly, you might be right about Osie. I just would feel bad if it were the case, and even though I was saying "lock scum" and the like yesterday, I was exaggerating about something I react poorly towards anyway. Can you provide your thoughts on it? At least straight up tell me, "I'm not buying it," if you don't like the reasoning I'm using.
Regardless his post does kind of make Tubba's reasoning looks more and more frail though.
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Also it's weird the amount of people expressing suspicion of Marko and how few votes he's had this game. I don't think I've read anyone say anything positive about him but Foopme is the only "vote" on him and it wasn't even a real vote.
He's a low poster. I wouldn't consider him a priority at this point in the phase. Plus there are stronger scumreads on others. What's your read on him?
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UGHHHHH
I THINK I'M SCUMREADING SCARLET BECAUSE OF ISSUES I TAKE WITH HER PROCESS
IF I CONSIDER THAT THIS IS JUST ANOTHER WAY OF SCUMHUNTING THEN SHE'S ACTUALLY BEEN PRETTY TOWNIE DESPITE MISREADING PARTS OF THE THREAD AND JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS
IN FACT THE JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS PART MIGHT ACTUALLY BE MORE TOWNIE THAN NOT
ALSO GRAPE IF YOU ARE TOWN FOR ONE SECOND CONSIDER I AM TOWN AND NOT ACTUALLY DEATH TUNNEL ME, THANK YOU
IT'S MAKING IT HARD TO READ YOU IF YOU'RE TOWN
IF YOU ARE SCUM, I WILL WIN THIS LOL
@ScarletC
I didn't like the Titus progression because I thought Titus' vote and replies to you were justified but you instead expressed suspicion towards her when she voted you. You didn't actually answer her Lynch/Vig/Mason question in the way she asked it. It also feels like you are processing things too quickly and in doing so ignoring questions/posts from others that may not seem significant to you but are to us. While you weren't townreading Titus, you said something along the lines of "I'm focusing on Osie now" so it seemed like it came out of nowhere. I didn't reply to this earlier because whether you can help it or not, it's really difficult to read posts that reply to posts without actually quoting posts or mentioning who you're replying to.
Also, I missed that scum have a day chat, but it was also stated in the sign up thread that there's 3 mafia and 0 neutrals in the games
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(continuation @ScarletC)
As for the Osie progression, you backed off without ever actually voting him.
Now you are voting him and I'm not sure why, other than what you said previously, but you also said Osie came off as more townie for that interaction with Titus (which strangely enough, I thought too, but I'm also not sure of your reasoning for it?)
About that interaction, that was purely miscommunication between the two of them. Osie took Scarlet Rage's question to mean who ScarletC would kill as scum. Scarlet Rage understood it to be a misunderstanding on Osie's part and explained she was actually asking who ScarletC would vig. When Osie tried to clarify:
To kill in the night with Celeste as a hypothetical night vigilante or as a hypothetical scum member?
Scarlet Rage took it to mean he was asking if he would kill you in the night, and was dismissive since she wasn't asking Osie that question.
At least that's what I took the interaction to be.
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@RE basically what you said in the second post was my opinion of your SCelestial take. Which sounds like voting someone for being different. It was the impression I got from your quote explaining your vote.
Anyway I never intentionally use false reasoning. You know my scum game, you know my town game. I don't make crap up. I get things wrong when I'm disengaged but I don't make things up. Anyone who intentionally uses false reasoning is playing scum wrong.
Anyway I haven't addressed the stuff from before I vanished because A: I've had plenty to address in the present B: troba hasn't been around and C: no one has asked me about it.
Anyway on Osie I don't buy that he's only complimentary as scum. I think that's a dangerous meta read to make. I can see not letting it pocket you and ignoring it but treating it as a major scum tell seems bad.
I called scarlet a diversion because you literally had your vote there less than an hour.
As for death tunneling, if I find someone else scummier I'll move and if I can't build a wagon I will but not just because you asked nicely.
As for death tunneling, if I find someone else scummier I'll move and if I can't build a wagon I will but not just because you asked nicely.
By all means, keep your vote on me. It's the reasoning you're using to scumread me that's bothersome.
Diversion means distraction which means... what exactly? I don't see how my vote there was a diversion. It was short, sure, but that specific comment/question bothered me a lot.
As for Osie, I mean to ask, do you not buy his post that explained his experience levels and past experiences as town? Because that's what caused me to back off.
Kind of disagree on that. It's not even about Osie specifically. It's definitely a scum tactic to compare one or some players to the rest of the base, cause if effective, would make the rest of town complacent. Notice Tammy and I were probably the only ones that didn't express much suspicion of Osie.
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I wrote a really long pissed off post about osie like 5 hours ago and then decided not to post it.
I saved it though and might post it tomorrow. Basically stop AtEing and go hunt scum, you have grape as your most scummy person and they're generally at the lower end of peoples lists so the game should be going pretty well from your position?
I read some things even though I mostly just had fun tonight. I think tubba is town fairly solidly rn.
trobs MIA kinda random? I don't remember their last post.
ara town >rand, I think I'm just gonna give in to it for now but I still feel like some of the things they listed for me being townie were like too abrupt. But if I don't god read and tinfoil they'll live longer which is cool.
Osie should stop AtEing and start burying grape into the ground. Make more posts that show you're thirsty to find out alignments and question deeper into things. I hate AtE like a lot so I'm going to hammer it home. Hell bury me into the ground maybe it'll help me read you better, you thought my posts were fluffy and put me in "unenthusiastic", do you think I'm mafia? Why? I can't read people who just roll over like that. I'm trying not to rewrite all the stuff that upset me before and focus on the positive direction aspects that you can take.
This is a bad post and should be read as a bad post :wave:
They are an experienced player that've pinged me. Experienced players intimidate me, intimidate isn't exactly the word I want, but I'm having trouble phrasing it.
I'm one of the least experienced players in this thread, if not the least experienced. I only started playing at the beginning of 2017 and the vast majority of my handful of games have been mislynches or losses. I've only rolled scum twice, got incredibly lucky the first time and got even more lucky the second time until the game went off the rails. I may have some experience with setup design and hosting, but I've probably played in less than 20 games over the past year and a half. I would not really call myself an experienced player. My reads are usually at least half wrong, I go off of consensus as either alignment when I'm stuck, and I focus so much on behavior that most other methods of analysis are experimental flops when I try to use them.
I don't know about you personally, but any other single player in this thread has much more experience than I do. I'm just along for the ride trying to fake it until I make it and maybe have a little bit of fun while I'm at it. Part of the reason why I've been less active in this game out of my current games is that I'm kinda tired of rolling town and then getting scumread into an early mislynch for my playstyle. Maybe I should just go back to hosting only after this game because this is depressing.
RE might have legitimate thoughts behind her read of me, not sure. I'm going to come back to the thread during break with an attempt at a more positive outlook on this game and hopefully see better reasons than I'm seeing for reads on various people from like half the thread right now.
I just went through yet another game where I was scumread by most of the thread and we lost miserably. I don't really need this to be yet another repeat experience.
Can you link this game for me? And other games where you've played similarly and gotten mislynched?
I don't even think it's based on playstyle for this game, it's more where your attention and focus has been. You've been calling out things as offputting that I disagree with ("my slot") or getting fixated on things like titus doing her game with ScarletCelestial. Most of your gameplay to me feels just not townie. I'm not seeing curiousity of peoples alignments, I'm not seeing you pushing in directions I would consider good, I see a lot of AtE coming from you about how people view you poorly.
I'm not a person who has recently been getting townread early in my games. I can understand the frustration. But it's really... dry. You're making the decision to "be yet another mislynch" by acting all woe is me. You have the capability to like... do anything. It sort of feels like you're in antispew and I hate making reads like that. And I get really frustrated when people just roll over in games, it does nothing beneficial for either alignment and makes the game incredibly boring for me.
Like if you keep getting mislynched in games do you think it might be a you problem and that you should start showing your mindset more heavily? Start pushing harder on your scum reads? Start getting more aggressive with your analysis and shove down peoples throats that you're town? Maybe asking some questions that have real, deep purpose behind them and then being unwavering when you ask them, don't let them die down.
Your top scumread is currently in thread concensus PoE next to you. You really think grape is scum, so the game should be going in a decent to good direction for you? People are questioning the slot and the person who was saying that they were "good ole grape" is starting to shake about it and feel doubt.
I'm getting ranty and pissed off and this probably will only make your emotional state worse but **** dude just go bury grape who is your counterwagon if you really think they're scum and just GO. *****ing and moaning about being a mislynch and being read scum is like literally AtE scum 101 and super negative to your wincon on either side
As for death tunneling, if I find someone else scummier I'll move and if I can't build a wagon I will but not just because you asked nicely.
By all means, keep your vote on me. It's the reasoning you're using to scumread me that's bothersome.
Diversion means distraction which means... what exactly? I don't see how my vote there was a diversion. It was short, sure, but that specific comment/question bothered me a lot.
As for Osie, I mean to ask, do you not buy his post that explained his experience levels and past experiences as town? Because that's what caused me to back off.
Kind of disagree on that. It's not even about Osie specifically. It's definitely a scum tactic to compare one or some players to the rest of the base, cause if effective, would make the rest of town complacent. Notice Tammy and I were probably the only ones that didn't express much suspicion of Osie.
Diversion as in an interlude. A short self contained event that connected to nothing and didn't lead anywhere. Regardless of the wording the point is you voted Celestial for not playing like you and then immediately walked it back in a way that look really suspect.
Anyway as for Osie I don't see why you would back off over something you see as an AtE. That doesn't make any sense to me. Like none. Like Osie's deal is he gets Wagoned early. I don't usually see him as scummy and I feel he's scummy here so I don't buy it. Plus I hate clearing scummy town for being scummy (see my relationship with Wisp and Shin). Plus Osie isn't pointing to a specific thing in his meta that gets him pressured that he's doing here, just the concept that he's always pressured. So I'd ignore it and basically barn Empoof except the calling me scum part.
And I think you're referring to pocketing talking about Osie calling you the GOAT, and that was my point earlier usually seeing someone buddy to you (especially when you're driving the game) if more of an eyebrow raiser than a lock scum sort of thing.
Grape, short task for you: quote all my posts that suspect ScarletC. Only then you can say that it didn't connect to anything.
And no, I didn't vote her for playing differently. I voted her because she wasn't reading the thread.
I almost never refer to people as lock scum. It's a really bad habit I picked up from MU. No one is ever really lock scum without mechanical evidence.
When I said AtE, what I really mean is appealed to emotion, as I feel inclined not to lynch him for that.
Also Foopme sounds like scum coaching town there
I need to turn my filter back on so I don't just say things that immediately come to mind
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I wouldn't automatically go down the list and say because one of them flipped town, we should lynch the other. I still greatly suspect one player over the other and it'd force me to reconsider a lot.
Thoughts on Titus/Osie interactions this page? Osie being on the suspect list of many yet not being voted?
I had this strange feeling that it actually made Osie townie. It was weird, but a weird thing for scum to get caught up in if Titus is town and he was trying to frame her based on something that had to be purely a misunderstanding. But then I think I'm reading too much into things and if there's an opportunity to frame, scum will take it. It just felt like a weird angle of approach for scum to take. ~.~
It was in response to this post.
By all means, ask me questions! I'm an introvert by nature and tend to sit back and observe far more than I probably should. I'm a terrible day one player because I lack confidence in my reads, so engage with me on it.
Poof can you clarify the bolded. It's probably syntactical but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around what you're trying to say there. (At your leisure, feel better.)
Wording can make or break a read for me.
Activity is a tell for me, but vanishing for days at a time isn't the sort of activity tell I have. I don't slank my way out of the game as scum, I just don't engage as much. Look at pirates or tokens for examples of this. I'm posting but I'm mostly limited to one or two posts per day.
I'm at work this morning and at this point it's slow going to try and do some catchup while I can.
This feels like such an unnatural way to build a world. Foopme is likely scum, but if he flips town then his suspicion must have been onto something despite feeling so wrong that it's part of your suspicion?
I'm also assuming the Scarlet you don't like Marko's catch up on is SCelestial?
@Tubba this has been done to death, but why are you concerned about reading me? What changed from F&E where you were very comfortable reading me?
I'm not familiar with the term sorting. What do you mean by it? Anyway this is an interesting game flow read, I'll try to take a look at SCelestial's effort to diffuse Ara vs the Marko wagon. Feels like those should have been treated pretty similarly, feels vaguely pockety towards Vox (or pocketed by I suppose). I remember SC seeming townie but I don't really remember why I liked her as much as I did.
I've provided my reads such as they are.
I don't have any teams building in my head, I think one of the high volume posters is scum, one of the low posters is scum. Nobody seems to be really pushing a case, or at least pushing it far. That seems weird to me.
If that's anything to work with, it seems scum is willing to play it a little softer, more willing to wait for town to misstep. That seems like a more experienced line of play, with a glass of wine to indicate the possibility of day chat, or multiple experienced scum players.
@Grape, mostly thread presence and concern that I'm missing something other players aren't. In F&E you seemed a lot more engaged, asked more questions and driving more dialog.
This was my latest completed town game: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/17882-Anonymous-Matrix6-Cluedo-Mafia
Already linked it, but yeah. (played as Miss Peach)
I take into account that I won't be good at reading certain people, or others will be better at reading them, is why it might feel unnatural. I try to put trust in other player's reads, but only if their alignment is clear. Foopme kinda reminds me of DenjaX. Their town and scum game aren't terribly different because when forming reads, they don't explain their process so much, except their reads tend to be very accurate. I don't know much about Foopme but I get the feeling he is like Denja in that way. However it's a double edged blade, where leniency towards a player due to their style and skill gives them more freedom as scum. I'd rather not give that freedom so easily when I've never played with Foopme before. And that he's been more trolly than I'm comfortable with. The more I think about it though, I'm having trouble considering either of you or Scarlet as town, so those dichotomies were definitely fluid thoughts.
@Tubba
I'm an introvert too. Sometimes it reflects in my games. But I've been feeling very not myself lately.
Let's see. Where would you vote now, if you had to?
Earlier you said that I answered two questions posed at another player, I only recalled one at the time. Can you point to the question I answered (not the one directed at Osie by ScarletC)?
Let's talk about this section of your reads: I don't think you should be holding yourself to the same standards as Voxx in terms of activity, if you are reading him based off of meta and if your town play is of a lower post count typically. His activity is explained by health issues, but I don't see here that you've taken that part into acknowledgement. No question realy, just an observation, but maybe you can clarify your thought process here.
Which players are you sheeping on your read of Scarlet Rage? I've not actually seen many players who are scumreading her at the moment (except Scarlet, but that was more recent, I think?), but I'm definitely tired and probably remembering wrong?
You also said Grape seemed like good old Grape in that post. But now you are saying otherwise. What changed your mind?
I had no idea Voxx was away for medical concerns. I missed that somehow, hope they feel better. I thought it was Empoof who wasn't feeling well?
It's less a scumread and more of a suspicion based on interactions, with you, Tammy, and SC. You all seem familiar with Rage as a player, and seem to be not townreading them. I thought it'd be safer to place them as null and watch, but as I mentioned it wasn't a strong read/reason.
Grape's early game seemed typical, engaging with the thread, asking questions and providing feedback. He picked up some votes, and kinda disappeared. So, basically it's similar to SR, in that I'd rather play it safe and not just townlean Grape, to try and be a little more critical of what they're saying.
I've never played with Scarlet Rage before (I mentioned this when I voted Grape). I think their playstyle is interesting and right now I'd rather let it be, besides I happen to share similar scumreads to them despite getting there through different means. She had a connection with Tammy early on that seemed like genuine T/T, and I'll have to review this when I have more time during the daylight hours, but I'm not liking ScarletC's progression on her (or Osie).
I like that final thought. I don't know how much it says about your alignment (yet, or if it ever will), but that's a good thought to have.
But your read on Grape is similar to that, no?
*collapses*
I think one thing I particularly didn't like which started a scumread on Troba for me was the jumping onto RE as a second vote as early as she did. It read as trying to start a wagon on someone who still mostly screams town to me. I also saw things like "i feel like this was way too much of a thoughtdump" (#13) and got very concerned that they were trying too hard to cover their bases and be friendly to people. By itself, it's not a strong read though. That came later after reading through a bunch of posts.
Page 1 Empoof is one of the laziest posters I've ever seen… I like the egg thing a little, though.
Based on the early light townread on Scarlet and its kinda offhanded lightness (doesn't feel manipulative) I think that unless RE is scarily good at pulling off an innocent tone, Scarlet is the only one of those two who might be scum.
Similar innocence shines through in Tammy's posting.
I generally assume that people who moderate mafia areas are good at the game until I see otherwise (and this is Empoof we're talking about anyways), so Troba's light push of a townread on Empoof in #44 is kinda meh.
Why are Empoof's posts so useless? Jeez.
Moving onto page 2…
This post really rubs me the wrong way and makes me suspicious of a Grape/Empoof team.
Ara's enthusiasm is concerning, but not necessarily AI.
#69 feels like the sort of faffing people around that some players love to do as scum.
@Anyone: (#71) Is Voxx usually so blasé about being intentionally low effort?
Speaking of which…
@Voxxicus: What are you referring to when you say "Intentionally throttling back as town?" Who does that as town for in-game reasons?
Empoof and Troba are probably not S/S unless one of them is leading the other a bit.
Now that I know that Troba is wordy by style, I think i like 85 a lot more.
But voting for zero-posters still sucks. A lot. And I'm going to get scum pings from anybody who was doing that.
Note to self: Pay attention to Voxx's posts on page 3.
Titus' post on Tammy feels really noncommittal.
Moving on to page 3…
2 suspicious people on zero-poster? Yeah, sounds about right, RE.
And then Titus too… Does an entire scumteam jump on one player? Ehh…
Tubba's post is… Uggh. I'mma set him aside for later since I don't like reading Tubba on a good day.
This post is wonderful. RE for GOAT.
Maybe this is a rhetorical question, but since when are wagon momentum and VCA "very peculiar?" They seem relatively normal to me.
And… caught up to my first readlist. I think Voxx would be lower, Troba and Tubba would potentially both be on Neutral. Empoof is lower because rereading his posts are really too damn fluffy. Grape is more just okay.
Titus has been playing since before 2013. And on BBCode-based forums, too. I'm not happy about "I wish I could quote just parts" when I can pull up a random old game she was in and see her multiquoting and quoting parts of posts. This sounds like an excuse to not fully respond to things, only the parts about her and one other person (Troba).
Voxx's vote on Ara seemed to be for bad reasoning, as I suggested earlier. But I like the "Not waiting 3 days" a bit. The explanation in #132 actually made me feel worse about it, though.
Why was Titus trying to maintain a wagon on a zero-poster? That's awful. Also, is this defense of Ara? Titus+Ara scumteam ping.
Titus is leanscum on TAMMY? Tammy is one of the two towniest players in the game. This is either really ballsy scum or really wrong town.
I like Voxx's 134, though. Solid post.
I'm not sure if I like Celeste underselling themself or not.
Tammy is adorable. More people should be like Tammy.
I feel like Celeste's questions could be summed up by "Explain more."
Huh. Troba and I have the same reads on both RE and Tammy.
I wouldn't even call Empoof over the top, just fluffy.
#148 - Is Celeste even reading the posts to which she's responding? Tammy already explained the last question, the first question feels obvious, the second question feels mostly obvious… What's the point?
I want to hear what Tammy has to say on Titus throughout this game since I think Tammy's well positioned to provide good input there.
Also practically everyone has the same read on Tammy and RE, Trob having it too, why is that significant
about that Titus read
MU has a function that allows you to highlight part of a post, hit quote, and it only quotes that bit. Doesn't exist here
Might not be what you're referring to but if you're gonna shade someone for that little bit probably something I should point out
Maybe I'm right in my dichotomies but wrong in my first choices
Or maybe the team is just Scarlet/Osie/Grape
Who tf knows
That doesn't make any sense to what I asked you. You were saying I was "good ol' town grape", but you didn't trust yourself to read me objectively. You had never expressed having difficultly reading me before. Why would you here? As for thread presence I've absolutely been less engaged. F&E was immediately fun for me because I enjoyed the playerbase so much and wasn't busy in real life.
The first part surprises me. It feels coming back into the thread like you and SRage are the organizing presence. And that felt wrong to me based off what I knew about you from our experience together. I'd never seen you take a town leadership role.
Anyway why did you bring up SCelestial in realation to the Foopme read? She wasn't part of that "dichotomy", Osie was.
557 confuses me. I have no clue why Osie thinks it's significant and less why you (RE) think it's lock scum.
I'm heading into work today. I'm going to start advocating for grape/osie/maybe marko wagons today barring something in these recent responses being exceptionally townie. If you think I'm scum then go ahead and throw me in there too but yeah I'm almost positive there's some sort of scum inside of there.
Titus is probably town since her scum team would be something like titus/(marko/ara)/(RE/Tubba) or something stupid and she would be actively playing really weird with one of her scum partners since I really don't think she's with osie and has more of a chance but still not really with grape. If I start reading the people she's more likely partners with worse than maybe I'll rescind this but for now (in italics) she's argued and done things with people that have distanced her from where I'm looking.
After work I'll decide if I go ham tonight or not but feeling a lot better after these drugs
@Osie "My slot" refers to this being a team mafia game where I get to discuss things with my homies. Nothing wrt subbing out or whatever, not sure why it pinged you but makes me feel better for pushing your slot
@Tubba try rereading the sentence over a couple times honestly, I started rephrasing it but ended up typing roughly the same thing.
Feeling slightly better about tubba too, not really sure why. Tonally I think they're just questioning things in a way I'd expect a town to.
Lynch Marko Come out and play. You're too good at the game to be a non-entity and at least when I don't know what's going on I post about it
Again, they're not really dichotomies. They're based on the smallest of interactions. Scarlet's read on you is bizarre to me (and not in the neutral way). Your interactions with her didn't feel W/W since you were overly defensive of her. I brought up that one to demonstrate how the dichotomies are really just fluid thoughts (and I was thinking maybe I was just wrong on Foopme and both him and Osie were town), but that was before Osie posted.
@Grape, I've explained the read already. You looked typical early on, accrued some votes and your activity dropped off. None of the games we've played have you ever dropped off like that. That's not AI, but in conjunction with other players voting/suspecting you, I'm leery of just clearing you and placed you as neutral to prod me into being more critical of you. I'm not scum reading you at present, and it seems weird that you are fixating on this.
@RE, the other question I referenced was posed to me. If I had to vote right now, gun to head, it'd be Osie. They are an experienced player that've pinged me. Experienced players intimidate me, intimidate isn't exactly the word I want, but I'm having trouble phrasing it.
You say one nice thing about someone... Wasn't even that much of a compliment. Just putting you up to a much stronger townread. Oh well, I guess this can be yet another mislynch under my belt.
Why present them as dichotomies then? Presenting as dichotomies implies a surety that you now don't seem to have. I'm confused.
I'm one of the least experienced players in this thread, if not the least experienced. I only started playing at the beginning of 2017 and the vast majority of my handful of games have been mislynches or losses. I've only rolled scum twice, got incredibly lucky the first time and got even more lucky the second time until the game went off the rails. I may have some experience with setup design and hosting, but I've probably played in less than 20 games over the past year and a half. I would not really call myself an experienced player. My reads are usually at least half wrong, I go off of consensus as either alignment when I'm stuck, and I focus so much on behavior that most other methods of analysis are experimental flops when I try to use them.
I don't know about you personally, but any other single player in this thread has much more experience than I do. I'm just along for the ride trying to fake it until I make it and maybe have a little bit of fun while I'm at it. Part of the reason why I've been less active in this game out of my current games is that I'm kinda tired of rolling town and then getting scumread into an early mislynch for my playstyle. Maybe I should just go back to hosting only after this game because this is depressing.
RE might have legitimate thoughts behind her read of me, not sure. I'm going to come back to the thread during break with an attempt at a more positive outlook on this game and hopefully see better reasons than I'm seeing for reads on various people from like half the thread right now.
I just went through yet another game where I was scumread by most of the thread and we lost miserably. I don't really need this to be yet another repeat experience.
I don't really give readwalls. I can but I generally put out theories. Observe ---> Test ---> Conclude.
For instance, I observed that you either misunderstood or deliberately ignored the three slots I was asking you about. I was asking you to play Lynch Kill Mason with Empoif Vox and Osie, not the whole playbase.
SGrape, Sorting = Drawing Conclusions from what she asks.
I'll be waiting.
Foopme - 2 (Tammy, MarkoRaj)
Grapefruit21 - 2 (RE1031, osieorb18)
Arapocalypse - 1 (Voxxicus)
RE1031 - 1 (Grapefruit21)
ScarletCelestial - 1 (Scarlet Rage)
Scarlet Rage - 1 (Arapocalypse)
Not Voting - 1 (Tubba Fett)
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends at 14:30 Eastern Time on August 1st unless there is a majority lynch.
Voxxicus is V/LA.
Trobairitz has been prodded.
Problems with this vote count? PM me or DM me on Discord for the fastest response. Posting something in-thread will probably get my attention eventually.
Is to say this is my preferred lynch for today.
Context for the ScarletC vote was this:
It annoyed me. I honestly don't know to read it.
Feel free to take a stab at why.
Why the fast change? I think there's a chance they both are scum but I wanna documeng this for later.
(Assuming the wagon I'm on is the one that lynches)
Can you also provide specific examples to where Osie gave you a different impression to the one he's leaving you now?
And to clarify, when you say "intimidate," do you mean you are not currently voting him because he intimidates you?
So ciao ciao see you tomorrow!
This is a scum progression here. The Osie to me progression is fine (the reasoning isn't) but the SCelestial diversion isn't. It's voting for the sake of being different which RE and RE basically admits to it explaining her hopping back to her safe space this game; calling me scum for pushing her early. Plus reasoning for moving off Osie is just awful.
Also @RE if you're reading this I'd still like to know which Scarlet was the subject of the Marko catch up causing your Marko read.
@SCelestial So my explanation for why I'm disconnected is an AtE but my being disconnected is scummy. Fun.
@Ara based on your list you don't seem to be mindmelding with RE much (outside of Tammy, who is probably spewed town at this point). Where are you seeing mindmelds?
@SRage So in context your scum read of SCelestial is that she's asking a ton of questions but not doing anything with them. And her reads seem to be separate from those questions and largely defensive?
@Ara
Could you talk with your team and tell me where the differing opinions on Osie come from? There are uh... rules about quoting your team and talking about what's inside your team chat so check those. I'm curious where they were unable to convince you otherwise, you think you have a better pulse on the thread than them?
@Silvercry
I'm also Voting Markoraj from earlier... have some intent to vote osie rn so wasn't unwelcome to see it that way.
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It wasn't simply because you suspected me. You used false reasoning in your case against me, which you never addressed.
Where did I admit to voting Scarlet for the sake of being different? Please answer this question by actually quoting the post I did so + explain why.
Did you miss where I've been suspecting ScarletC for most of this game? How was it a "diversion"?
Contextually, you should have been able to figure that it was ScarletCelestial causing my Marko read. He breezed over two high posters and was unable to form a read on them. For some reason I remembered it as "I've seen nothing townie from them," but the read wasn't as bad as that. If it had been something along those lines though, I wouldn't have bought the read, because it'd feel like he was ignoring us rather than actually trying to read us.
Honestly, you might be right about Osie. I just would feel bad if it were the case, and even though I was saying "lock scum" and the like yesterday, I was exaggerating about something I react poorly towards anyway. Can you provide your thoughts on it? At least straight up tell me, "I'm not buying it," if you don't like the reasoning I'm using.
Regardless his post does kind of make Tubba's reasoning looks more and more frail though.
I THINK I'M SCUMREADING SCARLET BECAUSE OF ISSUES I TAKE WITH HER PROCESS
IF I CONSIDER THAT THIS IS JUST ANOTHER WAY OF SCUMHUNTING THEN SHE'S ACTUALLY BEEN PRETTY TOWNIE DESPITE MISREADING PARTS OF THE THREAD AND JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS
IN FACT THE JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS PART MIGHT ACTUALLY BE MORE TOWNIE THAN NOT
ALSO GRAPE IF YOU ARE TOWN FOR ONE SECOND CONSIDER I AM TOWN AND NOT ACTUALLY DEATH TUNNEL ME, THANK YOU
IT'S MAKING IT HARD TO READ YOU IF YOU'RE TOWN
IF YOU ARE SCUM, I WILL WIN THIS LOL
@ScarletC
I didn't like the Titus progression because I thought Titus' vote and replies to you were justified but you instead expressed suspicion towards her when she voted you. You didn't actually answer her Lynch/Vig/Mason question in the way she asked it. It also feels like you are processing things too quickly and in doing so ignoring questions/posts from others that may not seem significant to you but are to us. While you weren't townreading Titus, you said something along the lines of "I'm focusing on Osie now" so it seemed like it came out of nowhere. I didn't reply to this earlier because whether you can help it or not, it's really difficult to read posts that reply to posts without actually quoting posts or mentioning who you're replying to.
Also, I missed that scum have a day chat, but it was also stated in the sign up thread that there's 3 mafia and 0 neutrals in the games
As for the Osie progression, you backed off without ever actually voting him.
Now you are voting him and I'm not sure why, other than what you said previously, but you also said Osie came off as more townie for that interaction with Titus (which strangely enough, I thought too, but I'm also not sure of your reasoning for it?)
About that interaction, that was purely miscommunication between the two of them. Osie took Scarlet Rage's question to mean who ScarletC would kill as scum. Scarlet Rage understood it to be a misunderstanding on Osie's part and explained she was actually asking who ScarletC would vig. When Osie tried to clarify: Scarlet Rage took it to mean he was asking if he would kill you in the night, and was dismissive since she wasn't asking Osie that question.
At least that's what I took the interaction to be.
Anyway I never intentionally use false reasoning. You know my scum game, you know my town game. I don't make crap up. I get things wrong when I'm disengaged but I don't make things up. Anyone who intentionally uses false reasoning is playing scum wrong.
Anyway I haven't addressed the stuff from before I vanished because A: I've had plenty to address in the present B: troba hasn't been around and C: no one has asked me about it.
Anyway on Osie I don't buy that he's only complimentary as scum. I think that's a dangerous meta read to make. I can see not letting it pocket you and ignoring it but treating it as a major scum tell seems bad.
I called scarlet a diversion because you literally had your vote there less than an hour.
As for death tunneling, if I find someone else scummier I'll move and if I can't build a wagon I will but not just because you asked nicely.
Diversion means distraction which means... what exactly? I don't see how my vote there was a diversion. It was short, sure, but that specific comment/question bothered me a lot.
As for Osie, I mean to ask, do you not buy his post that explained his experience levels and past experiences as town? Because that's what caused me to back off.
Kind of disagree on that. It's not even about Osie specifically. It's definitely a scum tactic to compare one or some players to the rest of the base, cause if effective, would make the rest of town complacent. Notice Tammy and I were probably the only ones that didn't express much suspicion of Osie.
I saved it though and might post it tomorrow. Basically stop AtEing and go hunt scum, you have grape as your most scummy person and they're generally at the lower end of peoples lists so the game should be going pretty well from your position?
I read some things even though I mostly just had fun tonight. I think tubba is town fairly solidly rn.
trobs MIA kinda random? I don't remember their last post.
ara town >rand, I think I'm just gonna give in to it for now but I still feel like some of the things they listed for me being townie were like too abrupt. But if I don't god read and tinfoil they'll live longer which is cool.
Osie should stop AtEing and start burying grape into the ground. Make more posts that show you're thirsty to find out alignments and question deeper into things. I hate AtE like a lot so I'm going to hammer it home. Hell bury me into the ground maybe it'll help me read you better, you thought my posts were fluffy and put me in "unenthusiastic", do you think I'm mafia? Why? I can't read people who just roll over like that. I'm trying not to rewrite all the stuff that upset me before and focus on the positive direction aspects that you can take.
This is a bad post and should be read as a bad post :wave:
Currently is a sleepy dazed state ftr so mentally not as frustrated as I was when I wrote this
Can you link this game for me? And other games where you've played similarly and gotten mislynched?
I don't even think it's based on playstyle for this game, it's more where your attention and focus has been. You've been calling out things as offputting that I disagree with ("my slot") or getting fixated on things like titus doing her game with ScarletCelestial. Most of your gameplay to me feels just not townie. I'm not seeing curiousity of peoples alignments, I'm not seeing you pushing in directions I would consider good, I see a lot of AtE coming from you about how people view you poorly.
I'm not a person who has recently been getting townread early in my games. I can understand the frustration. But it's really... dry. You're making the decision to "be yet another mislynch" by acting all woe is me. You have the capability to like... do anything. It sort of feels like you're in antispew and I hate making reads like that. And I get really frustrated when people just roll over in games, it does nothing beneficial for either alignment and makes the game incredibly boring for me.
Like if you keep getting mislynched in games do you think it might be a you problem and that you should start showing your mindset more heavily? Start pushing harder on your scum reads? Start getting more aggressive with your analysis and shove down peoples throats that you're town? Maybe asking some questions that have real, deep purpose behind them and then being unwavering when you ask them, don't let them die down.
Your top scumread is currently in thread concensus PoE next to you. You really think grape is scum, so the game should be going in a decent to good direction for you? People are questioning the slot and the person who was saying that they were "good ole grape" is starting to shake about it and feel doubt.
I'm getting ranty and pissed off and this probably will only make your emotional state worse but **** dude just go bury grape who is your counterwagon if you really think they're scum and just GO. *****ing and moaning about being a mislynch and being read scum is like literally AtE scum 101 and super negative to your wincon on either side
Diversion as in an interlude. A short self contained event that connected to nothing and didn't lead anywhere. Regardless of the wording the point is you voted Celestial for not playing like you and then immediately walked it back in a way that look really suspect.
Anyway as for Osie I don't see why you would back off over something you see as an AtE. That doesn't make any sense to me. Like none. Like Osie's deal is he gets Wagoned early. I don't usually see him as scummy and I feel he's scummy here so I don't buy it. Plus I hate clearing scummy town for being scummy (see my relationship with Wisp and Shin). Plus Osie isn't pointing to a specific thing in his meta that gets him pressured that he's doing here, just the concept that he's always pressured. So I'd ignore it and basically barn Empoof except the calling me scum part.
And I think you're referring to pocketing talking about Osie calling you the GOAT, and that was my point earlier usually seeing someone buddy to you (especially when you're driving the game) if more of an eyebrow raiser than a lock scum sort of thing.
And no, I didn't vote her for playing differently. I voted her because she wasn't reading the thread.
I almost never refer to people as lock scum. It's a really bad habit I picked up from MU. No one is ever really lock scum without mechanical evidence.
When I said AtE, what I really mean is appealed to emotion, as I feel inclined not to lynch him for that.
Also Foopme sounds like scum coaching town there
I need to turn my filter back on so I don't just say things that immediately come to mind