I'm currently gut reading ScarletCelestial as scum.
The imbalance between questions and comments on the game feels bad. There's enough in the game right now to comment on. And her questions directed at Tammy feel unwarranted (I don't see how they'd help figure out Tammy's alignment).
Have you played with her before? Her scumhunting style is kind of awkward and confusing the first time you play with her, especially when she's town ("scum is giving people what they want" rings VERY true in her playstyle, as town she's known as the moon queen to the point where her seeming logical is a scumtell. i wouldn't say that's accurate entirely but there are people who stand by that)
I know you're referring to ScarletRage here and it used to be a very very useful tell actually. She then started adding moonbeams to her scum play and now the issue is confused. I've seen her be logical as town too though sometimes it's logic I don't understand or agree with. I just always wish gorkington was in a game with me when playing with Titus because he's the player I've seen just get her the best - that might be outdated. I'm working on a theory for how best to read Titus; it's really incomplete but I think it might be less about titus than about the game and its flow. Does that make sense?
Did you ever answer that question I asked you to elaborate on about your Voxxicus post earlier?
I have always said don't believe in the moonbeams suggestion. The more moonlogical I sound, the less toen is doing what I feel is optimal to do. Read me by what I want to do...not what I say I want to do.
@Scarlet, what is your Grape read?
The most of paid attention on them is to do with their not saying what is going on with the RVS tell thing, and oddly enough I Town read it. I'm frustrated by it, but they're doing what they think is optimal for what to do rather than trying to please me and potentially pocketing me, as well as begin the start of a case against a player.
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
I'm of several minds on SC. I do agree with Trob that that early post where she says "now that I've made myself out to be a good NK" sounded pretty good.
I'm just going to say, in a previous game where SC was serial killer, she was on the train that lynched mafia day 1. During the night phase (there was night talk), she said something along the lines of, "Can't wait to be night killed." Besides being pretty townie day 1, I did think that made her even more townie. (She ended up killing me night 1 for whatever reason, my reads were horrible that game).
While there is a difference in playing as third party and being mafia, I think she's capable of saying something along those lines as scum.
Ara's read on Vox bothers me just a little.
1. I was Townsiding my Days and using my Nights to be SK-y. I wanted Town to win if I didn't, and hitting Kiiruma was partially luck (he posted like 3 times that phase).
2. I can't remember why I killed you but I think it's because you pointed out something about my claim.
3. I was the Bomb and I was trying to be like "lol Mafia you can't shoot me without blowing up" as a survival strategy. Nobody actually noticed my Bomb claim.
RE, I don't think you're doing this on purpose but you're missing some of the context behind my saying I was a good NK. I do think you're confirmation biasing based on a gut feeling.
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
The most of paid attention on them is to do with their not saying what is going on with the RVS tell thing, and oddly enough I Town read it. I'm frustrated by it, but they're doing what they think is optimal for what to do rather than trying to please me and potentially pocketing me, as well as begin the start of a case against a player.
Could you rephrase? I'm not sure what the RVS tell thing is, and the reason I'm voting him is for his case on me
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
RE, I don't think you're doing this on purpose but you're missing some of the context behind my saying I was a good NK. I do think you're confirmation biasing based on a gut feeling.
I'm saying you're capable of saying it as either alignment. I don't think it's more scummy or townie, just NAI.
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Tammy, dumb question...how did you find Unforgiving mafia well enough to know that it wasn't under my name? You aren't exactly a frequent resident of Mafia Universe (not even sure you had an account). Scarlet Celestial never mentioned it was on mafia universe.
I've been playing at mafia universe since 2015. I'm very well acquainted with the site. I don't play much mafia anywhere anymore, but that doesn't mean I'm never around.
Scarlet Celestial said earlier that she mostly plays on MU, which I'd already known anyway because she ran an alted game I thought about signing up for. I'm pretty much assuming that all non-mtgs players are mafia universe players.
You weren't listed in the multi-iso and search didn't help me with figuring out who you were, so here we are.
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For everything else, I'll get to later. Our team had a drinking mafia party last night, and I think I have the worst hangover I've ever had and I'm going back to bed. Didn't realize how dizzy I was and how bad my head hurt until I started reading. So later.
Oh empoof - I left you a message this morning from my team. It was just a drunken trolly way of saying hello and being silly.
I agree with RE, I have never been a game where I was converted by Osie. I did catch them in Call of Duty though and my impression from that is that they are very smooth as scum (they were Townread by everyone bar me early on into their subbing despite all the mechanical issues) so I think their game is pretty good based off that.
Yeah I definitely conflated you and RE due to thoughts in Live Mafia.
You think I'm smooth in this game? I think my play has been abysmally low effort due to how little time I have for things right now. Usually I would have more thorough reads on everyone by now. Haven't even looked at the other two games in this event yet.
Sigh.
I'm going to do a deep dumpster dive into this game tonight and maybe tomorrow and hopefully can grab onto a beautiful set of scummy eyes and tear them out of their closed sockets for all to see...
I don't know where I was going with that metaphor. Back to work.
1. I don't play live Mafia. The closest thing to live Mafia I've done is a few turbos on MU and I don't make a habit of it.
2. As RE already said, your saying that we always scumread you feels like an attempt to dismiss my accusations of you preemptively and make it sound like nothing I say about you is worth anything.
3. osie, I haven't had much time either but I am still trying to read this and make some questions whilst I have the chance. Your commenting is not the best and you completely avoided my saying that you reading something non-existent.
4. Yes that metaphor is weird.
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
I really dislike the read on Tammy and Titus here. I think most of what they are discussing isn't really alignment indicative. I find mafia are just as likely to call a truce at the start because you want to have people inside.
It's the wording too: 'totally tonal' just seems awkward in trying to explain it.
The truce felt genuine, hence it was a tonal read
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Grape - How can you comment on Grape's push when there is no push? The entire case is based on them refusing to share what they said page 1... Which then just slowly faded away into nothingness until I asked them again.
Titus - Answered this to RE: didn't look back and assumed it was an RVS vote. Does make this seem quite off, though the next best implication was that this was simply a pressure vote seeing as Marko was the only one to not have posted whatsoever.
When I said that some of the time it looks like your reading posts for the purpose of looking for a question to ask but not really understand, the Grape thing is part of what comes to mind. It feels like you're not reading and taking in the entire game. You're right that grapefruit did make that post about holding back a reasoning on an rvs tell, but he did post some thoughts to Trob. Now whether or not you want to call it a push is one thing, but Grapefruit has mentioned more than once his concern about Trob seeming nervous in the beginning of the game, questioned her, pointed out something that concerned him, and then said it might be stylistic.
For the titus bit, why are you writing off reasoning you presume she might have and not asking her why she made the vote or reading what she said about it and wagons?
Two things:
1. I said I thought it was pressure, not that it actually was. I know now that it was to do with them not liking not having a vote placed down. This is also why I ask so many questions: I'm not good at looking at the implicit half the time because I'm so bad at reading implicit behaviour.
2. I admit I haven't been paying as much attention to this game as I should, but this morning I started making a comprehensive list of thoughts on all players. I'm only at page 2. To be honest, I thought the level of posting would be more similar to that of the game I played on mafiascum and I was very wrong about that. But I digress, and that shouldn't be an issue really.
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
1 scum in Osie/Empoof (lean towards Empoof)
1 scum in Grape/ScarletC (prolly grape)
1 scum in Marko/Tubba/Ara/Vox (in order of likelihood)
I withdraw my scumread of ScarletC somewhat. I think questions can be used as a front for scum to appear solvy, but it may also be too soon to say. I want to see a serious vote soon and more reads, but we do have time. Grape's defense of Scarlet also sounded really whiteknight-y.
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
4. Completely different things when it comes to Titus. I don't think anything can be accomplished from looking at wagons at search an early stage. Osie is criticising what I think is an RVS vote.
Why do you keep saying it's an RVS vote when Titus said let's get out of rvs?
That was before I saw it wasn't an RVS T.T
O.o? Same post.
Also, why do I feel again that you're holding me to past games instead of this one? How well do you and your team know Tammy's team? Do you have a neighborhood with them?
As I keep saying you don't bug me Osie does. I haven't had much time to think in this game since I'm so invested in another game and I probably won't have the time until one of the other games I'm in ends. I have only had one good night of sleep in over a week it is a miracle I can even think of questions. I am getting to comment on every damn post starting from the beginning but I'm barely getting anywhere with it after 6 goddamn hours of doing it.
It feels like I'm being asked the same broken record of questions and my team does not Tammy's the rant was from a completely different player from a different game, if I had any sort of chat with Tammy I wouldn't be trying to sort them in the thread and I am not holding you to past games.
Rant over.
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
The most of paid attention on them is to do with their not saying what is going on with the RVS tell thing, and oddly enough I Town read it. I'm frustrated by it, but they're doing what they think is optimal for what to do rather than trying to please me and potentially pocketing me, as well as begin the start of a case against a player.
Could you rephrase? I'm not sure what the RVS tell thing is, and the reason I'm voting him is for his case on me
IDK either. Grape hasn't explained what it is despite my poking of them.
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
i dont really think any of that is scummy though? like i think most people would be taking that in jest or at least seeing if he's using to gauge reactions (i'm leaning more the former since when he is scumhunting it seems a bit more obvious here but i'm not a psychic. i just have a very potent third eye)
That's fair. I think it's scummy though because I don't see how it benefits town to give falsified reads on certain players. Or make no attempt to ward off the scumread from a player believed to be town, because that means their vote and effort is wasted.
I really dislike the read on Tammy and Titus here. I think most of what they are discussing isn't really alignment indicative. I find mafia are just as likely to call a truce at the start because you want to have people inside.
It's the wording too: 'totally tonal' just seems awkward in trying to explain it.
Couldn't you say the same of Empoof's conversation with Tammy?
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
RE, I don't think you're doing this on purpose but you're missing some of the context behind my saying I was a good NK. I do think you're confirmation biasing based on a gut feeling.
I'm saying you're capable of saying it as either alignment. I don't think it's more scummy or townie, just NAI.
Sorry, I thought you were suggesting it were scummy based on your wording.
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
Mentions don't work but I'm here now while I clean up my house
Never played with trobs before, don't think I've heard of them before? I maybe interacted with this in a nonmafia setting on mafiascum at some point just from sheer random happenstance.
Hi tammy squad definitely am a jackass sometimes, good read. We should all get drunk together sometime.
@PoofFoop
You say Celestial's knocking on your door when you gave townreads. Were you suggesting there's something new she said that felt town?
More meant she was "on here way" to being in the day 1 towncore. Is probably there if I actually read all her posts.
Also RE would say I'm playing this game somewhat similar to the smogon game that just ended that I'm in if you're trying to meta dive me. I'm probably like 3x more trolly here and am more forced to be a presence in those games since I was pushed into a leadership position on that site due to activity sluffers, but the lethargic-esque feeling is probably in part due to just overall burnout. I definitely gave a lot of reads in that game with like zero substance behind them, particularly with viperz and caffieneboost. Can ask for link if you can't find it but should be easy enough.
@Ara yeah ScarletCelestial is RedGhost, kind of feels weird how long it took you to realize that if it was bugging you so much
@Marko sup bud. Something about you feels a little forced, might be phase length related. #411 is good though, but rather easy. I'll probably find some softball questions for you in a second
Also RE would say I'm playing this game somewhat similar to the smogon game that just ended that I'm in if you're trying to meta dive me. I'm probably like 3x more trolly here and am more forced to be a presence in those games since I was pushed into a leadership position on that site due to activity sluffers, but the lethargic-esque feeling is probably in part due to just overall burnout. I definitely gave a lot of reads in that game with like zero substance behind them, particularly with viperz and caffieneboost. Can ask for link if you can't find it but should be easy enough.
Link please ;w;
Why the switch from Grape to Osie?
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Just reading through the first two-three pages probably uh... won't put your mind at ease (I think I underestimated how much of a leader role I view myself as on that site) so here's a post with similar frustrated tone? At least in the follow up stuff.
I... actually think I need to step up a bit more after reading just the beginning of that game. I didn't realize how townie I was rofl. Having come off of that loss and [ongoing] probably made me feel worse about my play than I maybe should have thought (and also I was a god in MU anni but I do better in real time larger player situations)
That's the thing about this game, i can thought dump all I want and it doesn't feel like it does anything
I'll try to read through it all again but I've done it before and it didn't really do anything either
I feel like I'm in some perpetual limbo of a game that's a resigned town lose with overall wim and thirst for game solving being really low.
Like I was genuinely in a good, energetic mood before thinking about this game and now I feel lethargic.
Meant to quote this post. But it's all around that area anyways.
Switch to grape from osie is somewhat of a sheep, somewhat that I like sitting on secondary wagons rather than main wagons. There is zero depth is either of my grapefruit or osie read atm but I'll hopefully be pushing through that during this activity time.
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I won't be around for 6-7 hours, but I'd like someone to lay out the Grape case for me. I always like Grape and I think he's been in every game I've played so far and I'm worried that it's affecting my ability to read him.
Also, RE1031, you've answered a question addressed to another player twice now by my count, once for a player that is locktown, once for a player that I'm suspicious of. That makes it seem like it should probably be NAI, but it still bothers me a bit. I understand your stance regarding certain kinds of questions, but wouldn't it be better for solving if you let the addressed player respond first?
@Tubba why would grape being in every game you've played make it harder to read him? Shouldn't you be getting into their head more with each game?
~ RE1031: what's Osie's mafia game like?
~ Pretty sure Scarlet Rage is town here?
~ Sorry Empoof!!!!
~ I really like the way Trob has been catching up, especially a few things in particular like talking about their vote there
~ My reads align with Empoof's sort of a lot; this is either really good or really bad!
~ Tubba Fett nitpicking but at least they admit that they're doing it which I find towny! I see his point of view at a glance I suppose but I also think it's pretty clear what Trob was going for, with the difference in statements!!
Actually not that much stuff as I was expecting; going to try to consolidate on stuff today, hopefully get into the thread more!! I sometimes have issues with getting into the thread during the day if people are already doing stuff (also having to catchup is annoying), which is why I generally like to be there at the start of the day... I don't think that quite applies to long phases like this though? *shrug* But yeah, feel free to ask me stuff because it would help!!!
I'm just popping in on break, but the people who would actually know my scum game are on your team (RWSO) and Empoof's team (the rest of the team).
The scum game with RE and ScarletCeleste was very unusual.
~ RE1031: what's Osie's mafia game like?
~ Pretty sure Scarlet Rage is town here?
~ Sorry Empoof!!!!
~ I really like the way Trob has been catching up, especially a few things in particular like talking about their vote there
~ My reads align with Empoof's sort of a lot; this is either really good or really bad!
~ Tubba Fett nitpicking but at least they admit that they're doing it which I find towny! I see his point of view at a glance I suppose but I also think it's pretty clear what Trob was going for, with the difference in statements!!
Actually not that much stuff as I was expecting; going to try to consolidate on stuff today, hopefully get into the thread more!! I sometimes have issues with getting into the thread during the day if people are already doing stuff (also having to catchup is annoying), which is why I generally like to be there at the start of the day... I don't think that quite applies to long phases like this though? *shrug* But yeah, feel free to ask me stuff because it would help!!!
I'm just popping in on break, but the people who would actually know my scum game are on your team (RWSO) and Empoof's team (the rest of the team).
The scum game with RE and ScarletCeleste was very unusual.
This is uh... not currently in your favor atm but I'll make sure to check this out more.
I'm almost caught up. I need to sleep tho, 2 day hangover has knackered me.
Cool I ended up talking/playing hearthstone for a while after attempting to read the thread a bit. Can you just walk over why that post makes ara v so I can get your mindset like a little bit? It's probably going to be obvious stuff but I wanna see it anyways
[Cool I ended up talking/playing hearthstone for a while after attempting to read the thread a bit. Can you just walk over why that post makes ara v so I can get your mindset like a little bit? It's probably going to be obvious stuff but I wanna see it anyways
Several fireballs explode into a row of bookshelves, obliterating them and scattering flaming pages of books fluttering throughout the room.
My bad, thought I saw a spider...
A short, bedraggled imp gently tugs at your sleeve, and hands you a note written in a flowing cursive
I won't be around for 6-7 hours, but I'd like someone to lay out the Grape case for me. I always like Grape and I think he's been in every game I've played so far and I'm worried that it's affecting my ability to read him.
Also, RE1031, you've answered a question addressed to another player twice now by my count, once for a player that is locktown, once for a player that I'm suspicious of. That makes it seem like it should probably be NAI, but it still bothers me a bit. I understand your stance regarding certain kinds of questions, but wouldn't it be better for solving if you let the addressed player respond first?
@Tubba why would grape being in every game you've played make it harder to read him? Shouldn't you be getting into their head more with each game?
I guess I should have phrased that better, I'm concerned about objectively reading Grape.
RE1031, admittedly cheekily is why I posed the question in the manner I did. However, I feel that when a question is posed to a player, it's about more than just the answer if that makes sense, and that's why it's important for the askee to have first crack at a response.
My reads are brutal right now, probably something like RE1031, ScarletCelestial and maybe Trobairitz feeling townish, Foopme, Tammy, Grape, Voxxicus and Scarlet Rage are wavering around the middle, with Arapocalypse, Markoraj, and Osieorb18 bringing in the bottom.
I like how RE and SC seem to be digging into the game and they look solvey. Trob's implied nervousness from early game seems to be more stylistic than a tell, and I found myself agreeing with some of their thoughts. I'm too paranoid to call these any stronger than town tickles at this point, and my unfamiliarity with them is a large part of it.
Foopme is tough for me to place, I don't like the scum claiming but that's more on me and my perception than being actually AI. Still, it pings me a bit. Tammy has good posts, but the fluff posts and some defensiveness has me wondering. Grape seems like good old townGrape, plugging away trying to solve. His placement is mostly due to the fact that others are voting him, and I'm worried I'm not seeing something there. The only other game I played with Voxx, he was a real engine pushing the thread along. His activity seems to have dropped off but I really can't talk about that myself, so neutral for now. Scarlet Rage should probably be a little higher in my rankings, with decent activity and I like how they've engaged with the thread so far, but I'm sheeping players who seem to know her better and side eyeing the slot for now.
I've mentioned Ara in passing through Voxx's read on them. More activity from them (ironic, I know) should clarify that read but for now they're low in my pool. Markoraj has barely posted, lurking scum is a thing, and nothing they've posted as yet has really done anything for me. Osie doesn't seem like the Osie I'm used to seeing. This is possibly due to time constraints with other games and whatnot, but I feel like they're a good player and wouldn't let that bog them down for long. The early readslist was typical, but seemed flimsy this time, and the defensiveness from being in a pool of suspicion seems atypical as well.
ScarletCelestial, you have implied I caught you in your prior games, wanted me to focus more on my past with Tammy, and simlutaneously implied my early wagon study (too early to be vca) is not helpful. I feel like you aren't actually sorting me but setting it up to where if I make a mistake that you'll try to argue my posting is worthless.
I mean, it's day 1 and the phases are long. I don't scum read you currently and don't sense malicious intent from your votes.
I also think Grape's case on me has a sprinkle of TMI to it and might suggest I'm very off in who I've suspected.
Can you elaborate on your observations? What is the hypothetical TMI?
Well, breaking down his case, I'm scum because:
>My read on Tubba is bad and it's just an easy place to keep my vote parked [False, I was voting Poofme]
>My attack on Scarlet but not voting her is an umbrella [Honestly, what does that even mean? I clearly addressed each one of her questions towards Osie and why I labeled most of them as "artificial"]
>I'm not being productive [I have townreads on Tammy and you to an extent. I've been pushing my scumreads, Scarlet and Poofme, for some time now. I've also questioned Trob, who was somewhat a gut town lean, but still has done questionable things I want addressed.]
He's focused strongly on my scumreads to case me. The not-being-productive part strongly relies on me being incorrect on my read and vote against Scarlet and Tubba (strangely enough he's attacked me more so for my read on Scarlet and less on Poofme).
Him calling out my criticism of Scarlet's questions as an "umbrella" is funny because labeling me as unproductive does the same exact thing. It's also funny he's using my vote placement as a reason to scumread me I think it may actually be less than half the player base is voting a player they actually suspect.
Of course, I may be reading too much into things. Grape being scum does not make Scarlet or Tubba town. I may be off on Grape and he's just experiencing a disconnect in style while scumreading me (not terribly likely considering I've played with him several times before).
Possibly, but I have been watching with a more critical lens and reached a different conclusion (not saying yours is incorrect). Expressing scumreads usually is productive. Scarlet expressed similar hostility to me keeping my vote on MarkoRaj. I am currently floating a Scarlet Raj Grape theroem in my head but I am not sure if accurate or not.
So I'm guessing this is the ScarletCelestial vote reasonings?
I read through your iso and you feel really quick and sort of empty and agreeable. Maybe not the right word, but you feel like you're playing nice. There's some fundamental ideas that you present that I think you would present the same way as both alignments (like d1 is rand, vca heavy player, read off what I do not what I say). I'm... having trouble really sorting you. I want to say on a baseline level your tone is somewhat villagery. I think some of the questions wrt votes like the question at voxx and some other question feel a little overdone when imo a lot of the reasoning to change votes is extremely apparent. Also kind of weird you didn't ask me about my vote switch considering that in your VCA head that might mean a lot of different things and I gave literally zero reason behind doing it. I think your tammy push is something that you're "supposed" to do based off some prior game rather than actually believe it, especially considering Tammy is basically IC at this point in the game.
So I have all these little bits and pieces poking at me that you could be scum from this and that and it's eating at me.
Let's get a little deeper about your scarlet read, can you bring up posts about it so I can view it in a single space and why you decided to vote her there? I would also love more things that didn't relate directly to you if possible and more than just hostility based off of your marko vote which is kind of NAI considering some people get all uppity about voting zero posters regardless of their alignment or relation to the zero poster.
Several fireballs explode into a row of bookshelves, obliterating them and scattering flaming pages of books fluttering throughout the room.
My bad, thought I saw a spider...
A short, bedraggled imp gently tugs at your sleeve, and hands you a note written in a flowing cursive
I won't be around for 6-7 hours, but I'd like someone to lay out the Grape case for me. I always like Grape and I think he's been in every game I've played so far and I'm worried that it's affecting my ability to read him.
Also, RE1031, you've answered a question addressed to another player twice now by my count, once for a player that is locktown, once for a player that I'm suspicious of. That makes it seem like it should probably be NAI, but it still bothers me a bit. I understand your stance regarding certain kinds of questions, but wouldn't it be better for solving if you let the addressed player respond first?
@Tubba why would grape being in every game you've played make it harder to read him? Shouldn't you be getting into their head more with each game?
I guess I should have phrased that better, I'm concerned about objectively reading Grape.
Grape seems like good old townGrape, plugging away trying to solve. His placement is mostly due to the fact that others are voting him, and I'm worried I'm not seeing something there.
Not sure I understand the objectively part, can you just walk me through this like I'm five? I'm a person who thinks meta is like... extremely useful to have on people and how they feel when they play the game. Have you seen grape play scum, have you played as scum against grape, how many games together have you played? I'm trying to figure out the baseline you have here and what the hang up is that you're concerned about reading him correctly.
Can you also show me posts that made you feel like he was "good old townGrape" and what the corresponding feeling went to? Which reads did they have or solving aspect felt that way
Not sure I understand the objectively part, can you just walk me through this like I'm five? I'm a person who thinks meta is like... extremely useful to have on people and how they feel when they play the game. Have you seen grape play scum, have you played as scum against grape, how many games together have you played? I'm trying to figure out the baseline you have here and what the hang up is that you're concerned about reading him correctly.
Can you also show me posts that made you feel like he was "good old townGrape" and what the corresponding feeling went to? Which reads did they have or solving aspect felt that way
Do I answer for Tubba here or do I let him answer for himself? Hmm...
Because I think it's pretty clear what Tubba means...
Also, I took one look at that site, no ISO feature, no can do
Nah, when I have more time, I'll take a look. I'm perfectly comfortable taking your word for it, though, that you were townier in your town game
Also, @Scarlet Rage
So ScarletC is in your scum team due to her response to you voting Marko. How did Grape fall into that team, from your PoV? I'm not sure if you said
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
If it’s the “harder to read grape objectively” this thing feel free to answer yeah. That’s just me being an idiot probably but every person I play with a lot usually gets easier to read as I learn how they naturally react to things. There’s #fear reads but it really didn’t sound like that sort of thing
If it’s the “harder to read grape objectively” this thing feel free to answer yeah. That’s just me being an idiot probably but every person I play with a lot usually gets easier to read as I learn how they naturally react to things. There’s #fear reads but it really didn’t sound like that sort of thing
Well, if you like someone, it can be harder to scumread them. So it'd be difficult for Tubba to read Grape objectively - without bias - if he likes him.
I don't disagree with what you're saying, having meta definitely helps. But it can be awkward to doubt someone you like, it's always going to be somewhat critical of them.
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
If it’s the “harder to read grape objectively” this thing feel free to answer yeah. That’s just me being an idiot probably but every person I play with a lot usually gets easier to read as I learn how they naturally react to things. There’s #fear reads but it really didn’t sound like that sort of thing
Well, if you like someone, it can be harder to scumread them. So it'd be difficult for Tubba to read Grape objectively - without bias - if he likes him.
I don't disagree with what you're saying, having meta definitely helps. But it can be awkward to doubt someone you like, it's always going to be somewhat critical of them.
Oh okay. I think I just don’t mind being a cockbag sometimes and wolfreading people I like. I used to get pocketed a lot, might have been a lot of it
You voted me because I sounded really passive aggressive didn't I? Anyway, still only Page 3 of the reread. If anybody wants me to post more stabilised thoughts please ask.
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
i dont really think any of that is scummy though? like i think most people would be taking that in jest or at least seeing if he's using to gauge reactions (i'm leaning more the former since when he is scumhunting it seems a bit more obvious here but i'm not a psychic. i just have a very potent third eye)
That's fair. I think it's scummy though because I don't see how it benefits town to give falsified reads on certain players. Or make no attempt to ward off the scumread from a player believed to be town, because that means their vote and effort is wasted.
I really dislike the read on Tammy and Titus here. I think most of what they are discussing isn't really alignment indicative. I find mafia are just as likely to call a truce at the start because you want to have people inside.
It's the wording too: 'totally tonal' just seems awkward in trying to explain it.
Couldn't you say the same of Empoof's conversation with Tammy?
Which one? Can you quote it?
The breakfast one. I don't think it could be called in anyway AI, but could only be used as an indicator later on. I'm saying this because breakfast has nothing to do with the game but can show Tammy's tone from when they're acting naturally. As such, it can't be as used as anything so early, but could be used later in the game to compare attitudes to.
In that conversation also, did Empoof describe their read of Tammy as tonal.
If I'm wrong, can you please explain the difference?
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
Just reading through the first two-three pages probably uh... won't put your mind at ease (I think I underestimated how much of a leader role I view myself as on that site) so here's a post with similar frustrated tone? At least in the follow up stuff.
I... actually think I need to step up a bit more after reading just the beginning of that game. I didn't realize how townie I was rofl. Having come off of that loss and [ongoing] probably made me feel worse about my play than I maybe should have thought (and also I was a god in MU anni but I do better in real time larger player situations)
That second paragraph probably explains some of my problems with you? I'm more used to solvey-logical Empoof from Virtuoso's, Anni and April Fools (though the last was a scum game and I totally knew he was scum in that). The first was a normal but I think that can be explained as that being one of my first Town games and you were being all leader-y to help.
Maybe I haven't got as good as a grip on your game as I think.
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
I don't really get Tubba's reasoning for Townreading me: I haven't been as solvey as I would be normally but I'm getting there. @Tubba Fett is there anything you describe myself or RE as anything other than solvey?
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
Foop, this sort of comment although genuine on the surface, pings. You appeared to be completely fine with my rapid vote changes and pressure until I changed to Scarlet. The VCA comments I might let slide (normally I let VCA determine vote context) but it seems like you are more interested as a whole in dissuading me. You even go as far as to say Tammy is basically an IC when I am not pursuing her today. Also, there is no such thing as "basically an IC". She is townread by most of tbe playerbase though. My question to you is why are you suddenly interested in my SC reasoning when you were not as interested in my grape reasoning?
I'm not going to ignore your question though because it is selective and hopefully this answers RE as well.
I opened with a vote on ScarletCelestial about being the one true Scarlet. Scarlet ignores the RVS. Instead, she asks me about my Marko change and implies its RVS rather than me building wagons to get going.
SC intercedes with my fight with Tammy. Her question doesn't seem like one of sorting. If she was curious, she would wonder why I found Tammy's answers ok enough not to fight. Instead, she feels akin to coaching Tammy or trying to rile us both up. I don't know which.
Then, there's more questioning of the appropriateness of my methods. This seems wierd from someone who was saying umprompted that I caught them twice before.
I mention to SC about how good she expects me to be. She answers only the other context in the post.
At this point, I am thinking Scarlet is scum. She again asks about my Marko vote. Wanting it off. This flags partners with the amount of effort Scarlet is going through to peel for MarkoRaj.
I vote Ara. Largely ignored.
I vote Grape due to the suspicion.
SC dances with Empoof on wanting to vote Grape. Flagged more as poss partners. Mostly ignores Vox and me on Ara.
When I postulate my team, SC says they'd expect more votes on Ara. Deflection? Distancing? She could have lent her vote to help sort Ara after Vox suspected him. Instead, she largely ignored it focusing on Osie. Why when I speculate my theory should I be voting Ara?
Then she expresses frustration over Ara townread.
This is why I am voting Scarlet. There's little sorting and a lot of defending that makes no sense.
1. Again, this is intertwined with the part where I was not paying attention as much as could have done due to my current mental state (lack of sleep, frustration) and playing a different game which is a lot more intense, and yet another game on top of that to the detriment of my play here. I am now going through everything again so I don't make this mistake again in the future and actually absorb it. This is also the case on further points. I have only reached page 3. If you want my thoughts on you thus far from my proper read through:
39 - No thoughts.
43 - Not going after Trob is a good thing, unless one flips scum. I feel like scum would’ve taken any read they could’ve gotten right about then.
94 - Ignoring Tammy feeling for better pursuits is more productive and thereby Townier than if they tried to talk to them forever and still coming to no conclusion. Getting worried that they’re not trying to pursue anything yet though, and even talking to Tammy would generate more content to read Titus by.
96 - Would’ve been nicer if they elaborated on how those thoughts differed.
100 - I think it depends on how it manifests itself later in the game. The enthusiasm would likely waver throughout the game. I don’t think Titus has thought through this fully.
2. Some of your issue seems to stem from my defending of everyone. I don't mean to do that, and I'm certainly not doing that of osie.
3. My questioning of Tammy was due to false information provided by teammates which was to do with a completely different player.
4. I am questioning your method because I'm curious and I have no ******* clue how VCA can actually work so early and you never said any of this before in prior games.
5. I say that you're a good player because I believe you can read me and I respect you. I said this before.
6. I have not been paying attention to votes because I find that it doesn't really matter much at this stage: I also thought that there were no votes on Ara. I said it as a note for myself to check later. If I knew I was wrong I would not have said it. I thought it was odd that Marko had votes but Ara had none.
7. I ignored what you said about your possible team because what was there to say about it? You believe what you believe I'm going to go do what I need to do to catch scum.
8. I was wondering how Tammy could read Ara off a single post because that's how much there was at the time she got Townread. I'm more frustrated about her disappearance because I know it's NAI.
I'm going back to my catchup.
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
Problems with this vote count? PM me or DM me on Discord for the fastest response. Posting something in-thread will probably get my attention eventually.
I think I understand where this was going (I think?). Titus, did you vote Marko to tie the wagons and see which wagon didn't lose traction?
If so, personally, I don't think it would've worked since there's players that completely refuse to vote zero posters early game (this includes me) so I don't think much data could be garnered from this.
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
4. Technically, what I am doing is looking at wagon momentum and predicting the flip. It's not VCA as no flips. The strongest VCAs are d3 with at least 1 scum flipped.
As for the data, I can't tell what wagons will increase or fall but I live voting to see what happens early.
I'll be looking at your reads when you're done with your catchup.
4. Technically, what I am doing is looking at wagon momentum and predicting the flip. It's not VCA as no flips. The strongest VCAs are d3 with at least 1 scum flipped.
As for the data, I can't tell what wagons will increase or fall but I live voting to see what happens early.
I'll be looking at your reads when you're done with your catchup.
VC please
Oh that makes sense. Thanks Titus
It's slow going so I might post thoughts up to page 5 then another one when I reach now.
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
The creature preens under your attention, puffing out its prodigious chest and fluttering its wings
Tenacious, not aggressive in the way that I typically conflate with scum, but in the sense you want to get to the bottom of your concern. It seems like you want information, not like you want to push a narrative. (OoC-it's obscenely hot, thanks a lot Al Gore)
The creature preens under your attention, puffing out its prodigious chest and fluttering its wings
Tenacious, not aggressive in the way that I typically conflate with scum, but in the sense you want to get to the bottom of your concern. It seems like you want information, not like you want to push a narrative. (OoC-it's obscenely hot, thanks a lot Al Gore)
Problems with this vote count? PM me or DM me on Discord for the fastest response. Posting something in-thread will probably get my attention eventually.
The most of paid attention on them is to do with their not saying what is going on with the RVS tell thing, and oddly enough I Town read it. I'm frustrated by it, but they're doing what they think is optimal for what to do rather than trying to please me and potentially pocketing me, as well as begin the start of a case against a player.
1. I was Townsiding my Days and using my Nights to be SK-y. I wanted Town to win if I didn't, and hitting Kiiruma was partially luck (he posted like 3 times that phase).
2. I can't remember why I killed you but I think it's because you pointed out something about my claim.
3. I was the Bomb and I was trying to be like "lol Mafia you can't shoot me without blowing up" as a survival strategy. Nobody actually noticed my Bomb claim.
RE, I don't think you're doing this on purpose but you're missing some of the context behind my saying I was a good NK. I do think you're confirmation biasing based on a gut feeling.
Also, wasn't CoD the only game I played with you where I scumread you?
I've been playing at mafia universe since 2015. I'm very well acquainted with the site. I don't play much mafia anywhere anymore, but that doesn't mean I'm never around.
Scarlet Celestial said earlier that she mostly plays on MU, which I'd already known anyway because she ran an alted game I thought about signing up for. I'm pretty much assuming that all non-mtgs players are mafia universe players.
You weren't listed in the multi-iso and search didn't help me with figuring out who you were, so here we are.
---
For everything else, I'll get to later. Our team had a drinking mafia party last night, and I think I have the worst hangover I've ever had and I'm going back to bed. Didn't realize how dizzy I was and how bad my head hurt until I started reading. So later.
Oh empoof - I left you a message this morning from my team. It was just a drunken trolly way of saying hello and being silly.
1. I don't play live Mafia. The closest thing to live Mafia I've done is a few turbos on MU and I don't make a habit of it.
2. As RE already said, your saying that we always scumread you feels like an attempt to dismiss my accusations of you preemptively and make it sound like nothing I say about you is worth anything.
3. osie, I haven't had much time either but I am still trying to read this and make some questions whilst I have the chance. Your commenting is not the best and you completely avoided my saying that you reading something non-existent.
4. Yes that metaphor is weird.
Two things:
1. I said I thought it was pressure, not that it actually was. I know now that it was to do with them not liking not having a vote placed down. This is also why I ask so many questions: I'm not good at looking at the implicit half the time because I'm so bad at reading implicit behaviour.
2. I admit I haven't been paying as much attention to this game as I should, but this morning I started making a comprehensive list of thoughts on all players. I'm only at page 2. To be honest, I thought the level of posting would be more similar to that of the game I played on mafiascum and I was very wrong about that. But I digress, and that shouldn't be an issue really.
1 scum in Grape/ScarletC (prolly grape)
1 scum in Marko/Tubba/Ara/Vox (in order of likelihood)
I withdraw my scumread of ScarletC somewhat. I think questions can be used as a front for scum to appear solvy, but it may also be too soon to say. I want to see a serious vote soon and more reads, but we do have time. Grape's defense of Scarlet also sounded really whiteknight-y.
As I keep saying you don't bug me Osie does. I haven't had much time to think in this game since I'm so invested in another game and I probably won't have the time until one of the other games I'm in ends. I have only had one good night of sleep in over a week it is a miracle I can even think of questions. I am getting to comment on every damn post starting from the beginning but I'm barely getting anywhere with it after 6 goddamn hours of doing it.
It feels like I'm being asked the same broken record of questions and my team does not Tammy's the rant was from a completely different player from a different game, if I had any sort of chat with Tammy I wouldn't be trying to sort them in the thread and I am not holding you to past games.
Rant over.
IDK either. Grape hasn't explained what it is despite my poking of them.
Couldn't you say the same of Empoof's conversation with Tammy?
Sorry, I thought you were suggesting it were scummy based on your wording.
Never played with trobs before, don't think I've heard of them before? I maybe interacted with this in a nonmafia setting on mafiascum at some point just from sheer random happenstance.
Hi tammy squad
More meant she was "on here way" to being in the day 1 towncore. Is probably there if I actually read all her posts.
Also RE would say I'm playing this game somewhat similar to the smogon game that just ended that I'm in if you're trying to meta dive me. I'm probably like 3x more trolly here and am more forced to be a presence in those games since I was pushed into a leadership position on that site due to activity sluffers, but the lethargic-esque feeling is probably in part due to just overall burnout. I definitely gave a lot of reads in that game with like zero substance behind them, particularly with viperz and caffieneboost. Can ask for link if you can't find it but should be easy enough.
@Ara yeah ScarletCelestial is RedGhost, kind of feels weird how long it took you to realize that if it was bugging you so much
@Marko sup bud. Something about you feels a little forced, might be phase length related. #411 is good though, but rather easy. I'll probably find some softball questions for you in a second
No wolves here (or they get lynched in endgame):
Empoof Tammy Trob
Might have a wolf but just doubt it:
RE ScarletCelestial
Voxx? He just gets his own section for now in italics
Don't know but lean town
Titus Tubba Ara
Don't know:
Marko
Don't know but lean slightly scummy for nonreasons:
Grapefruit Osieorb
Link please ;w;
Why the switch from Grape to Osie?
Just reading through the first two-three pages probably uh... won't put your mind at ease (I think I underestimated how much of a leader role I view myself as on that site) so here's a post with similar frustrated tone? At least in the follow up stuff.
I... actually think I need to step up a bit more after reading just the beginning of that game. I didn't realize how townie I was rofl. Having come off of that loss and [ongoing] probably made me feel worse about my play than I maybe should have thought (and also I was a god in MU anni but I do better in real time larger player situations)
Meant to quote this post. But it's all around that area anyways.
Switch to grape from osie is somewhat of a sheep, somewhat that I like sitting on secondary wagons rather than main wagons. There is zero depth is either of my grapefruit or osie read atm but I'll hopefully be pushing through that during this activity time.
@Tubba why would grape being in every game you've played make it harder to read him? Shouldn't you be getting into their head more with each game?
I'm just popping in on break, but the people who would actually know my scum game are on your team (RWSO) and Empoof's team (the rest of the team).
The scum game with RE and ScarletCeleste was very unusual.
Cool I ended up talking/playing hearthstone for a while after attempting to read the thread a bit. Can you just walk over why that post makes ara v so I can get your mindset like a little bit? It's probably going to be obvious stuff but I wanna see it anyways
Haven't read anything in like 48 hours. Will try to catch up later today.
Do you or your team have comments on me thinking Scarlet and Grape are scum?
My bad, thought I saw a spider...
I guess I should have phrased that better, I'm concerned about objectively reading Grape.
RE1031, admittedly cheekily is why I posed the question in the manner I did. However, I feel that when a question is posed to a player, it's about more than just the answer if that makes sense, and that's why it's important for the askee to have first crack at a response.
My reads are brutal right now, probably something like RE1031, ScarletCelestial and maybe Trobairitz feeling townish, Foopme, Tammy, Grape, Voxxicus and Scarlet Rage are wavering around the middle, with Arapocalypse, Markoraj, and Osieorb18 bringing in the bottom.
I like how RE and SC seem to be digging into the game and they look solvey. Trob's implied nervousness from early game seems to be more stylistic than a tell, and I found myself agreeing with some of their thoughts. I'm too paranoid to call these any stronger than town tickles at this point, and my unfamiliarity with them is a large part of it.
Foopme is tough for me to place, I don't like the scum claiming but that's more on me and my perception than being actually AI. Still, it pings me a bit. Tammy has good posts, but the fluff posts and some defensiveness has me wondering. Grape seems like good old townGrape, plugging away trying to solve. His placement is mostly due to the fact that others are voting him, and I'm worried I'm not seeing something there. The only other game I played with Voxx, he was a real engine pushing the thread along. His activity seems to have dropped off but I really can't talk about that myself, so neutral for now. Scarlet Rage should probably be a little higher in my rankings, with decent activity and I like how they've engaged with the thread so far, but I'm sheeping players who seem to know her better and side eyeing the slot for now.
I've mentioned Ara in passing through Voxx's read on them. More activity from them (ironic, I know) should clarify that read but for now they're low in my pool. Markoraj has barely posted, lurking scum is a thing, and nothing they've posted as yet has really done anything for me. Osie doesn't seem like the Osie I'm used to seeing. This is possibly due to time constraints with other games and whatnot, but I feel like they're a good player and wouldn't let that bog them down for long. The early readslist was typical, but seemed flimsy this time, and the defensiveness from being in a pool of suspicion seems atypical as well.
So I'm guessing this is the ScarletCelestial vote reasonings?
I read through your iso and you feel really quick and sort of empty and agreeable. Maybe not the right word, but you feel like you're playing nice. There's some fundamental ideas that you present that I think you would present the same way as both alignments (like d1 is rand, vca heavy player, read off what I do not what I say). I'm... having trouble really sorting you. I want to say on a baseline level your tone is somewhat villagery. I think some of the questions wrt votes like the question at voxx and some other question feel a little overdone when imo a lot of the reasoning to change votes is extremely apparent. Also kind of weird you didn't ask me about my vote switch considering that in your VCA head that might mean a lot of different things and I gave literally zero reason behind doing it. I think your tammy push is something that you're "supposed" to do based off some prior game rather than actually believe it, especially considering Tammy is basically IC at this point in the game.
So I have all these little bits and pieces poking at me that you could be scum from this and that and it's eating at me.
Let's get a little deeper about your scarlet read, can you bring up posts about it so I can view it in a single space and why you decided to vote her there? I would also love more things that didn't relate directly to you if possible and more than just hostility based off of your marko vote which is kind of NAI considering some people get all uppity about voting zero posters regardless of their alignment or relation to the zero poster.
@Scarlet Rage
Can you also show me posts that made you feel like he was "good old townGrape" and what the corresponding feeling went to? Which reads did they have or solving aspect felt that way
Because I think it's pretty clear what Tubba means...
Also, I took one look at that site, no ISO feature, no can do
Nah, when I have more time, I'll take a look. I'm perfectly comfortable taking your word for it, though, that you were townier in your town game
Also, @Scarlet Rage
So ScarletC is in your scum team due to her response to you voting Marko. How did Grape fall into that team, from your PoV? I'm not sure if you said
I don't disagree with what you're saying, having meta definitely helps. But it can be awkward to doubt someone you like, it's always going to be somewhat critical of them.
You voted me because I sounded really passive aggressive didn't I? Anyway, still only Page 3 of the reread. If anybody wants me to post more stabilised thoughts please ask.
The breakfast one. I don't think it could be called in anyway AI, but could only be used as an indicator later on. I'm saying this because breakfast has nothing to do with the game but can show Tammy's tone from when they're acting naturally. As such, it can't be as used as anything so early, but could be used later in the game to compare attitudes to.
In that conversation also, did Empoof describe their read of Tammy as tonal.
If I'm wrong, can you please explain the difference?
That second paragraph probably explains some of my problems with you? I'm more used to solvey-logical Empoof from Virtuoso's, Anni and April Fools (though the last was a scum game and I totally knew he was scum in that). The first was a normal but I think that can be explained as that being one of my first Town games and you were being all leader-y to help.
Maybe I haven't got as good as a grip on your game as I think.
I'm not going to ignore your question though because it is selective and hopefully this answers RE as well.
I opened with a vote on ScarletCelestial about being the one true Scarlet. Scarlet ignores the RVS. Instead, she asks me about my Marko change and implies its RVS rather than me building wagons to get going.
SC intercedes with my fight with Tammy. Her question doesn't seem like one of sorting. If she was curious, she would wonder why I found Tammy's answers ok enough not to fight. Instead, she feels akin to coaching Tammy or trying to rile us both up. I don't know which.
Then, there's more questioning of the appropriateness of my methods. This seems wierd from someone who was saying umprompted that I caught them twice before.
I mention to SC about how good she expects me to be. She answers only the other context in the post.
At this point, I am thinking Scarlet is scum. She again asks about my Marko vote. Wanting it off. This flags partners with the amount of effort Scarlet is going through to peel for MarkoRaj.
I vote Ara. Largely ignored.
I vote Grape due to the suspicion.
SC dances with Empoof on wanting to vote Grape. Flagged more as poss partners. Mostly ignores Vox and me on Ara.
When I postulate my team, SC says they'd expect more votes on Ara. Deflection? Distancing? She could have lent her vote to help sort Ara after Vox suspected him. Instead, she largely ignored it focusing on Osie. Why when I speculate my theory should I be voting Ara?
Then she expresses frustration over Ara townread.
This is why I am voting Scarlet. There's little sorting and a lot of defending that makes no sense.
1. Again, this is intertwined with the part where I was not paying attention as much as could have done due to my current mental state (lack of sleep, frustration) and playing a different game which is a lot more intense, and yet another game on top of that to the detriment of my play here. I am now going through everything again so I don't make this mistake again in the future and actually absorb it. This is also the case on further points. I have only reached page 3. If you want my thoughts on you thus far from my proper read through:
43 - Not going after Trob is a good thing, unless one flips scum. I feel like scum would’ve taken any read they could’ve gotten right about then.
94 - Ignoring Tammy feeling for better pursuits is more productive and thereby Townier than if they tried to talk to them forever and still coming to no conclusion. Getting worried that they’re not trying to pursue anything yet though, and even talking to Tammy would generate more content to read Titus by.
96 - Would’ve been nicer if they elaborated on how those thoughts differed.
100 - I think it depends on how it manifests itself later in the game. The enthusiasm would likely waver throughout the game. I don’t think Titus has thought through this fully.
2. Some of your issue seems to stem from my defending of everyone. I don't mean to do that, and I'm certainly not doing that of osie.
3. My questioning of Tammy was due to false information provided by teammates which was to do with a completely different player.
4. I am questioning your method because I'm curious and I have no ******* clue how VCA can actually work so early and you never said any of this before in prior games.
5. I say that you're a good player because I believe you can read me and I respect you. I said this before.
6. I have not been paying attention to votes because I find that it doesn't really matter much at this stage: I also thought that there were no votes on Ara. I said it as a note for myself to check later. If I knew I was wrong I would not have said it. I thought it was odd that Marko had votes but Ara had none.
7. I ignored what you said about your possible team because what was there to say about it? You believe what you believe I'm going to go do what I need to do to catch scum.
8. I was wondering how Tammy could read Ara off a single post because that's how much there was at the time she got Townread. I'm more frustrated about her disappearance because I know it's NAI.
I'm going back to my catchup.
I think I understand where this was going (I think?). Titus, did you vote Marko to tie the wagons and see which wagon didn't lose traction?
If so, personally, I don't think it would've worked since there's players that completely refuse to vote zero posters early game (this includes me) so I don't think much data could be garnered from this.
As for the data, I can't tell what wagons will increase or fall but I live voting to see what happens early.
I'll be looking at your reads when you're done with your catchup.
VC please
Oh that makes sense. Thanks Titus
It's slow going so I might post thoughts up to page 5 then another one when I reach now.
Tenacious, not aggressive in the way that I typically conflate with scum, but in the sense you want to get to the bottom of your concern. It seems like you want information, not like you want to push a narrative. (OoC-it's obscenely hot, thanks a lot Al Gore)
Who is this about?
osieorb18 (2): Trobairitz, Foopme
Grapefruit21 (2): RE1031, osieorb18
Arapocalypse (1): Voxxicus
RE1031 (1): Grapefruit21
ScarletCelestial (1): Scarlet Rage
Not Voting (3): Tubba Fett, Arapocalypse, ScarletCelestial
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends at 14:30 Eastern Time on August 1st unless there is a majority lynch.
Problems with this vote count? PM me or DM me on Discord for the fastest response. Posting something in-thread will probably get my attention eventually.