Yeah, my brain is glossing over posts pretty hard.
I'll try and ISO some contentious people tomorrow.
I think Tammy and Empoof are solidly town.
I actually think Tubba is super likely to be town here, but I'm going to admit that's largely off sponging teammate reads as posts of his get linked.
I'm not sure I want to touch Osie or SC with a ten foot pole after that conversation above until I have time to dwell on it. It's... pretty gross as either alignment but I need to figure out if I think it makes them both town, or if I just want them to be both town.
I don't really understand why there are votes on Grapefruit, but I also don't have any recollection of Grapefruit making any posts, so maybe that answers my own question. He's on the docket to look into in the morning/afternoon tomorrow.
I think Titus is >rand to be a wolf this game, for reasons I'm struggling to articulate. Feels like there's an element of 'give people what they want' to their posts, and there was something specifically I need to pull out of their ISO to look at. Guess I'll just try to do it now while I'm thinking about it:
You can join us on Grape then. Right now, I think he has a >50% chance of being scum. Not as high as the fake scarlet but we need wagon pressure.
Titus posted this, and it feels like a disconnect to me between saying there's two people that are >50% likely to be scum, and them talking about how D1 is a total crapshoot, that they'd lynch at rand if they could, etc. Ties into that 'give people what they want' feeling, I just have trouble connecting them genuinely believing there's 2 people that are >50% likely to be a wolf with also having the belief that lynching d1 is random-ish.
I have no idea on Marko. He hadn't really posted by time I was unable to follow things closely, might take a look at him before EoD, but more likely I just shuffle him off to D2 as it doesn't seem like he's a priority to assess right now.
My team is side eyeing RE and Trob a little bit, but that kind of sounds like a D2 thing for me to look at also, probably.
I'm still missing a chunk of game, and want to do a full re-read, but that's not happening before EoD. I guess I'm at [Ara, Titus] > [Grapefruit, Marko, RE, Trob] as my rough PoE right now, but that'll obviously get refined soon. I think I've talked myself into maybe town reading both Osie and SC while writing this post, and that could be a mistake, but is what it is for now. [Voxx, Tammy, Empoof, Tubba, Osie, SC] town core? Hum.
Voxxicus
Tammy
Empoof
Tubba
SC
Osie
Grapefruit
Marko
RE
Trob
Titus
Ara
RE/Trob are possibly too low, that's almost entirely based on some throwaway team recommendations to look at them closer, but having them in the null cluster with Grape/Marko feels about right given that.
This is the best criticism of my play so far. Tbh, lynching d1 is randomish but we kinda have to play based on our reads. I feel that my theiry is correct but that doesn't change the law of averages or that we need wagon pressure to get dolid vote anslysis later.
Why are people floating that I am compromising to try and deter from Grape who is suddenly MIA. I am testing a theory. Said theory has both Grape and Scarlet as partners.
I also find Ara's posting telling and perhaps indicative of Scarlet plus Ara or Grape plus Ara might be a thing. Ara hasn't been engaging with the substance of players posts. Instead, he's trying to bring attention and shade back to me. Eyeballing this, I would say greater than 75% of her slots have some sort of question as to why is Titus scum, trying to plant that idea without actually hunting. There are several slots Ara seems to outright ignore.
I kinda brought this up with Ara about RWSO, but in general, how I'm thinking about the teams, without going into what's going on in other games:
I don't think I've played with anyone on Voxx's team for any significant period of time. They all have some reputation for being former MTGS backbone of very skilled players though, especially Voxx and Newcomb.
I've played in one town game with Tammy and Nacho when I was particularly new to the game. Tammy and Nacho were both solid. I had a slightly negative experience in terms of Gemma, but that was mostly due to her inactivity as scum in a game I helped host and lashing out afterwards when confronted about it.
I have only recent games with Vezok, but they analyze some things startlingly well as town and are solid on strategizing as either alignment. Wheat I've only experienced as a mod or reviewer, but he knows his stuff when active enough to rock it.
I've played a decent amount with KJ and kpaca, and 1 non-ongoing game with Tubba. Kpaca is fun and really solid. He has some chance of being able to read me, though I think my reads on him are a bit better despite a notable experience gap... I kinda managed to psychoanalyse him in our first two games together... KJ is very good a lot of the time but sometimes has issues of balancing confidence with effort and nervousness. KJ often tunnels on me incorrectly due to misreading flailing on my part, but has some ability to read me after a number of games together. Tubba struck me as not knowing what he was doing and still getting his bearings. Not sure if that has changed since then or not. I see no reason why Tubba would have any confidence in a read on me whatsoever.
RWSO was in Two Takes It, my scum game, with me. The game was awkward since I ended up moderating him in the middle of it, but he played decently when he was there and has some idea of my scum game. Ara I've talked about having looked up some. I know nothing about Lissa.
I've played a lot with everyone on Grapefruit's team. Rhand is solid as either alignment and has a scarily sharp and inquisitive town game. Cantripmancer has some lurking difficulties but is one of my top 5 players that I've experienced as either alignment and some of my play is inspired by him. Grape I talked about but his skill hides his actual relatively low (only slightly more than mine) amount of time playing. He's very impressive as both alignments when trying. I've only been town in games with these players.
I know nothing about Troba's team. May have read a game with sheep in it at some point.
DV and Last are both personal friends who have played in a number of games with me, especially DV. Last is harder for me to read due to his personal brand of flail, but I think I mostly have a grasp on it. DV I've talked with and played with and against a lot and we've recently started to at least be able to regularly townfirm each other, outside of potentially ongoing games. Celeste I have only played with or read (mostly due to moderating others) in a couple games but she seemed to be very solid, albeit regularly emotional from the games and prone to rigid tunnels.
Tom and Shadow are in my top 3 players by skill and just enjoying playing with them. And one or both have been in or talked with me about pretty much every game I've been involved in, especially on MTGS. I think of both as good friends. Tom tends to hide his alignment either way behind lots of NAI posting but has some tells with regards to confidence and motivation that you can see if you know what to look for. Shadow is scary good at looking like he's town as either alignment and an investigative ability should probably be used on him. He's particularly good at lonewolfing. Empoof I don't remember well, but I only hosted a micro with him in it a while back. He has a bit of a reputation for being very skilled, in part for similar reasons to Ara but with more notoriety as well.
I know nothing about Roz. Shinichi is mostly an open book due to a lot of interactions both in games and out of games as both alignments. I'm not entirely sure if that goes both ways, though. He probably still is mad at me as always. (I kid.) RE I've only particularly thought about as town in games I've been in, but I have been in Live Mafia with her some and she had a decent scumgame from what I can recall. One of the most cordial players I've ever met in any game.
The game I was in with Kanji and Nancy is ongoing. Titus is unfamiliar to me.
Vaimes has a very solid town game and a decent scumgame, when he gets going. He's particularly weak on Day 1s though, to a fault. I've only played with him when I was town. I know nothing about the other two members of that team.
That can give people an idea of my relation to teammates and who might have some ability to assist you with your reading of me in this game.
I don't really understand how lynching d1 is random.
Day one wolf lynches shouldn't be that hard.
I just had wolf!panther in our last game try to argue that lynching a villager was pro-ev for villa in my last game. Is this the same? To give justification for not taking things very seriously on d1?
The argument for lynching villa = pro ev means bussing harder. I don't buy it. Day 1 should be taken seriously but there's nothing solid to base things on. Hence random.
From the ISOs of Grape and Titus come... QUESTIONS. (Catching up after this.) So before being traumatised this night, I read through Grape's and Titus' last 50 posts (I think, the search function doesn't work as well on phones as I'd hoped).
Open question Is there anyone besides me who tried to blatantly defend Grape?
To Grape
- You asked for a game where RE was leader. How did this help you formulate a read on RE? Were there any differences between the games you played with them and any games you were given? (Or were you not given any and this question is pointless?)
- Would you say this conforms to any scum game of which you've seen RE in in the past (if you haven't seen her in any scum games, ignore this)
- Why are the no Marko votes odd when everybody already had stronger suspects? What does this make of Marko?
- What is your actual read/case on me anyway? (Actually, just give a readlist as well seeing as you've talked to/about so few people...)
- You said that RE was scummy because she was unable to explain something in her case against me, aren't I guilty in the same about some points in the osie case?
- You say that you think RE is deliberately misrepresenting you. What's the difference with me not answering things properly and thereby making the same mistakes?
- What is the difference between treating someone as Town and someone as scum?
To Titus
- Why not try to continue pushing me when other people (RE, osie) want me dead just as much as you (as of the point where you moved your vote to Grape)?
- Related to the above, is the any particular reason as to why you're trying to shuffle people onto Grape?
(Also @Arapocalypse the pleasing thing was just a passing thought, and I think it only really applies to where they changed their vote. With the context I now have from the ISO, it was more likely because they were trying to build a majority wagon)
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
No way am I taking part in any sort of world building post-Frostpunk. There was nothing tying the scum team together, and that's what made Town lose. Based on that, at this point I'm only focusing on the individuals who seem scummy to me. This doesn't mean that it's useful to some, it just means I'm ******* scared to do it.
So, may I ask you, @Foopme and @Tammy, why you think world building is good at this stage of the game?
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
Open question Is there anyone besides me who tried to blatantly defend Grape?
Ara said me and Grape might be T/T or something like that. Vox's read on Grape pinged me earlier but it's not exactly a defense, more like Grape is null and he is considering me as scum.
I don't think I wanted you dead today, actually, more like I scumread you but I don't totally trust myself on that read?
Ara/Grape are my current picks for today's lynch.
He's very pushy and excitable as scum, almost like he was angry. As town, I would say he sounds... sad? He definitely took a more active role as scum compared to as town. I only have one scum game on him though, so the meta read I'm relying on isn't too reliable.
oddly enough i'm getting both out of him from what i remember, i felt kind of a "gotcha" sense when he called my vote on him earlier on like predictable OMGUS but the rest of his game feels more like the sad/introspective kind of vibe i think you're getting at
do you think there would be any overlap here? like i personally read "gotcha" kind of things as scummy or bad-ms-town which osie doesnt really seem like personally but people are always different and i could have been reading into it too much
The "gotcha" part, if I were to put it into the osie scum game I saw, would have been 10x as aggressive. Okay. I actually don't remember where that happened or what happened where it happened so maybe it was aggressive. But he would have been excited about it and not lifeless like he's been. If I were only relying on that scum game, which since Osie is even saying himself not to, I shall not...
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Since you won't be around much, can you at least leave a readlist just in case you don't come back until August?
You said you can soulread Empoof. Got anything yet?
You said you felt a purpose coming from osie's posts. Is it describable?
Can you explain the Grape read please?
Comments:
I really like Marko. There's nothing concrete here, just feelings of him reading the thread and coming out of it with good thoughts (such as the RE one) and the looking back at parts (such as him looking over Ara's post more than once). It all feels just so goddamn pure to me and makes me think that this is the guy I have played with before.
Though I would really like answers to my questions to help me articulate further.
@MarkoRaj I don't like being (unintentionally) ignored T.T
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
He's very pushy and excitable as scum, almost like he was angry. As town, I would say he sounds... sad? He definitely took a more active role as scum compared to as town. I only have one scum game on him though, so the meta read I'm relying on isn't too reliable.
oddly enough i'm getting both out of him from what i remember, i felt kind of a "gotcha" sense when he called my vote on him earlier on like predictable OMGUS but the rest of his game feels more like the sad/introspective kind of vibe i think you're getting at
do you think there would be any overlap here? like i personally read "gotcha" kind of things as scummy or bad-ms-town which osie doesnt really seem like personally but people are always different and i could have been reading into it too much
The "gotcha" part, if I were to put it into the osie scum game I saw, would have been 10x as aggressive. Okay. I actually don't remember where that happened or what happened where it happened so maybe it was aggressive. But he would have been excited about it and not lifeless like he's been. If I were only relying on that scum game, which since Osie is even saying himself not to, I shall not...
Open question Is there anyone besides me who tried to blatantly defend Grape?
Ara said me and Grape might be T/T or something like that. Vox's read on Grape pinged me earlier but it's not exactly a defense, more like Grape is null and he is considering me as scum.
I don't think I wanted you dead today, actually, more like I scumread you but I don't totally trust myself on that read?
Ara/Grape are my current picks for today's lynch.
So, may I ask you, @Foopme and @Tammy, why you think world building is good at this stage of the game?
*resists temptation to answer*
@Vox
Could you explain why your team has considered me and Trob as scumbuddies? And why you think SC and Osie are T/T.
I would technically describe what Voxx said as more of a soft defence perhaps, and by the looks of it he changed his mind seeing as you're on the same tier as them. Ara's I have no clue what is going on with that until I look at it in context (I'll do that next, this is in reply to the bolded.)
Elaboration, RE. Saying you want me dead is me exaggerating that you wouldn't mind my lynch. Why don't you trust yourself on my read (well, anything besides what you said in all caps...)?
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
He's very pushy and excitable as scum, almost like he was angry. As town, I would say he sounds... sad? He definitely took a more active role as scum compared to as town. I only have one scum game on him though, so the meta read I'm relying on isn't too reliable.
oddly enough i'm getting both out of him from what i remember, i felt kind of a "gotcha" sense when he called my vote on him earlier on like predictable OMGUS but the rest of his game feels more like the sad/introspective kind of vibe i think you're getting at
do you think there would be any overlap here? like i personally read "gotcha" kind of things as scummy or bad-ms-town which osie doesnt really seem like personally but people are always different and i could have been reading into it too much
The "gotcha" part, if I were to put it into the osie scum game I saw, would have been 10x as aggressive. Okay. I actually don't remember where that happened or what happened where it happened so maybe it was aggressive. But he would have been excited about it and not lifeless like he's been. If I were only relying on that scum game, which since Osie is even saying himself not to, I shall not...
Oops. What I meant to say was: That game obviously isn't indicative of nothing, but it needs to be taken with a giant grain of salt since I was on damage control pretty much the whole game and incredibly on edge. I also had much less respect for the people who I was playing with in that game than I should have had, and as such was just all around much more ballsy than I'd usually be, especially as scum. Didn't help matters that Shinichi and less so Karote were doing some degree of ego boosting me during that game, leading me to act even more arrogant than I already was. That's why I say even though I turned that game around and nearly won it that I am not proud of it, not to mention the incredibly awful clash with Celeste in that game.
Ara doesn't ever say anything about RE/Grape being T/T. In fact, Ara has Grape as null and hasn't even really looked at them in any capacity like they're overlooking them. It's strange seeing as Grape is a contender for lynch, so I'd think by reading posts you'd at least try to gain some sort of thought on them, negative or positive.
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
My team's wanted my vote here the past couple days, but well I was hoping to settle my feelings elsewhere first. This is my best guess for right now. I don't get a real sense of trying to figure out the game and I don't much like the other two wagons.
I was just trying to read through Ara's iso but like I just found out that my stepdad was admitted to the hospital today and it doesn't look good, and I can't really focus, so I'm going to just summarize my team thoughts that the the catch up posts lack a sense of sorting the game, the readslists felt like a mix of appeasement, shoehorning and lacked a sense of legitimate sorting process. These thoughts are mostly on the catch up posts which they thought could be tempered by the fact that it was obvious she was hurrying to catch up to get current, which could explain some of the lack of depth. There's also something off about the Titus push. (this is a far less eloquent paraphrase than the original.)
Anyway none of us has gotten a real sense of sorting the game.
Ara - responding to your question about Titus' meta and my experience. Titus and I have been playing together since 2013 at mafiascum. I haven't played much mafia in the past year or so, so I don't know if some of her meta has evolved. We've played together a fair amount, and I've run the gamut on reads on her for a variety of reasons. I've gotten her right sometimes and I've gotten her wrong sometimes. Is there a reason you've been interested in how I've read people in the past and why I've read them the way I've read them in the past?
You said that your team gave you thoughts on Osie and that he was town from your teammates, but have they given you input on Titus? Lissa's been in games with Titus, so if they're talking to you about Osie have they talked to you about Titus' meta and your expectations?
Voxx - Glad you're feeling better and posting!
Celestial - World building is good at any stage because it's a good check on your reads. And worldbuilding is something that is going to look different from person to person and experience. For me when I have a poe that doesn't make sense to hold the entire scum team, I know that I'm trying town read scum, which makes me reassess my reads. People can subvert expectations for how scum are going to interact and sometimes people have been cleared people from being a partner when they shouldn't, but that doesn't mean it's not useful.
Ara doesn't ever say anything about RE/Grape being T/T. In fact, Ara has Grape as null and hasn't even really looked at them in any capacity like they're overlooking them. It's strange seeing as Grape is a contender for lynch, so I'd think by reading posts you'd at least try to gain some sort of thought on them, negative or positive.
Yeah, you're right
I completely misread one of their posts:
the early RE vote was just sheeping to make a wagon. i think random votes are useless in rvs so if i townread someone i'm just going to follow their vote and make a wagon, like yes that's buddying but i dont really care im gonna do that almost always
vote: grapefruit
this might shock people but i liked #726, my Hot Glance at it is that it's probably more town than i'm giving it credit for, a lot of the energy in it just feels unrelenting and not really in the scummy "gotcha" way that was kind of mentioned earlier. i know that's super vague and i'm probably going to follow the argument more closely later today, but reading what osie's writing it does seem like there's weird holes in scarlet's thought process (like their waffle on me is kind of confusing in a way that i don't really like, for what amount of issue they had with me in posts i've had even before my flake they didn't really prod me? just one example though)
as alluded to earlier though i have sheep on my team so i'm not going to vote scarlet off of that until i feel more clear about her (since... her posting style is kind of annoying to read on this site lol), just the critical thinking and the nuance here i think is not scum indicative for osie and this is probably the Next Best Vote
most normal people would unvote here since i dont really have a real reason to vote grape besides wagon-composition-if-osie-is-town but i dont do that
The back-and-forth between the two seems v/v to me; the thoughts and the way arguments were expressed were in a very out there sense, and the way that they're not backing down seems like more of a stubborn town mindset here over a mafia one! Also the way that it's sort of ground to a halt; I'm getting the sense that the exasperation from both sides is towny since I think mafia are more likely to just put up with the constant questioning and hope to appease town by answering rather than do something else; I do like how ScarletCelestial has seemed to attempt to focus elsewhere in particular, though!
Note that I didn't particularly follow the arguments themselves so my thoughts could be completely off base, but I'm fine with this thought for now; will actually try to parse the messages properly later!!!
Also (unrelated but I think this is my third post in a row), it has come to my attention that there's a chance that we could no lynch, which is a mildly horrifying prospect which gave me a minor mafia life crisis and also made me question my life decisions; is this a thing that people are actually considering? And if so, can we... not, please? That does remind me that I still have yet to ISO the people I meant to ISO like Grapefruit; making a note of that, actually, which I feel like I should probably have made notes in the first place... better late than never, I guess?
I thought she was talking about Grape/me, but she was talking about you and Osie. Hmm. ~read undergoing process~
I don't think that's what Vox had in mind when putting me and Grape in the same category. Grape is null for him (which kind of goes along with what you said about Ara). He's considering me as possible teammates with Trob.
I've misread you before. I've only successfully read you strongly in Terraformers, but that was due to the one on one you had with Wisp that got heated, so not the ideal circumstances. Comparing that to you and Osie in this game, it's different because you are frustrated, versus being upset. Being upset (the combo of sad + angry) is harder to fake than just being angry. Feeling upset comes from a sense of being wronged, which barring certain circumstances, comes exclusively from town... You were upset during CoD, but I still scumread you that game because you ignored some of my questions and mechanics were just not my strong suit at the time (and still aren't, really x.x).
If I had to say, your play this game resembles more of the TPR games than the town games I've seen from you, but there isn't TPR in this game. So you're more of a work-in-progress read (kind of similar to Osie, actually), and I don't think I want to lynch you today.
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
I think you misunderstand. I'm not looking at you/Trob as a team, I'm looking at you two as individually possible wolves that slipped under radar a bit, because my team was squinting at you both (for different reasons). I haven't been able to look into it enough to form my own opinion, but given I have a chunk of other town reads, it gets you guys temporarily slotted in the 'null/light scum by virtue of not being a town read' category.
My two primary objectives for remaining time are doing full re-reads of Ara and Grapefruit. I'll do a full game re-read over night phase and hopefully come out fully up to speed with reads firmed up for D2. Sorry for the lackluster activity, health happens sometimes, and the white background with no alternative skins on this site is straight up murder on my eyes right now.
I think you misunderstand. I'm not looking at you/Trob as a team, I'm looking at you two as individually possible wolves that slipped under radar a bit, because my team was squinting at you both (for different reasons). I haven't been able to look into it enough to form my own opinion, but given I have a chunk of other town reads, it gets you guys temporarily slotted in the 'null/light scum by virtue of not being a town read' category.
Ah okay. I have no idea how I misread it like that.
In that case, I'd be curious for the reasons, whenever possible
(I feel a little bad for saying this, but it's more so I want proof they exist... Since I'm not sure how "slipping under the radar" would describe my play this game.)
Thanks for the game Rco, I enjoyed it and look forward to playing with you all again. Except Pizza.
I love pizza though...
His scum game resembles his town game more than this game resembles his town game. At first I got excited because I read his town game and it looked pretty different from what I've seen here (he was more aggressive in his town game, had more to say in general, and voted a little more frequently). But it did appear more people interacted with him than in this game (so far).
The only thing significant I can really garner is I don't know why Tubba is holding off from voting here.
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
I think you misunderstand. I'm not looking at you/Trob as a team, I'm looking at you two as individually possible wolves that slipped under radar a bit, because my team was squinting at you both (for different reasons). I haven't been able to look into it enough to form my own opinion, but given I have a chunk of other town reads, it gets you guys temporarily slotted in the 'null/light scum by virtue of not being a town read' category.
Ah okay. I have no idea how I misread it like that.
In that case, I'd be curious for the reasons, whenever possible
(I feel a little bad for saying this, but it's more so I want proof they exist... Since I'm not sure how "slipping under the radar" would describe my play this game.)
I'll need to dig through the chat when on a computer - I know the Trob thing is a couple posts that felt like 'word salad', a bunch of words that when you actually read them didn't actually say anything.
The squint at you was not feeling like reads you had or a push you made felt like something you genuinely could believe based on gamestate at the time, but I'll pull examples if need be.
It's mostly irrelevant because I'm going to form my own opinions, just given I don't currently have strong opinions on either of you, my team going 'ehhhh' is enough to have you in nullish section, if that makes sense. I actively scum read Ara and Titus, though not completely sold on that being w/w. I think there's probably? 1-2 wolves in [Grape, Marko, RE, Trob] due to town reading the other 6 players, but that's not where I really want to focus the remaining 48ish hours.
Anyway the early Troba read: she made two self meta posts by post 15. Which is all kinds of alarming, even if the second one was answering a question. And the first one she leaped at a simple "how are you?" to begin providing a meta dump. It just read super strangely to me. Once 53 happened I thought maybe it was just nerves of being in a new place with lots of new faces but that doesn't seem to be the case.
So in other words, one self meta post alarmed you. If you read through the context of it:
Well, my alignment does pop up pretty easily, but it takes time. I have to have content to question and analyse first. I have also delved into VCA analysis (partial success), interaction analysis (once, but it worked) and searching dead people for clues (it would've worked if I pay attention). Now that I've sold myself as a good NK, how are you Trob?
I have played with a majority of the playerlist and my partners have filled in the blanks, so I hope we can have a good game.
Well, my alignment does pop up pretty easily, but it takes time. I have to have content to question and analyse first. I have also delved into VCA analysis (partial success), interaction analysis (once, but it worked) and searching dead people for clues (it would've worked if I pay attention). Now that I've sold myself as a good NK, how are you Trob?
I have played with a majority of the playerlist and my partners have filled in the blanks, so I hope we can have a good game.
yeah im usually an easy read as well (though my scum winrate in actual games is nearly perfect? i have exactly 1 loss as not-town), my playstyle's super inconsistent though. i just kind of go with what feels right and try to get everyone working together, how i do that changes but it's instrumental to win as any alignment
Vote: RE1031
I think it makes sense why Trob would talk about their scum game? She makes a post prompting SC to talk about her meta. Then she discusses her own. Even if it were random self meta, why would that even be scum tell?
As for Tubba I don't buy that at all. He made one post when you made that read and it was pure role play. This is a really reductive version of the read Voxx made on Ara (which I'm still not sure I'm comfortable with) but worse because his only post was 29 and didn't attempt to engage with the game at all. Just flavor gaming and checking out. If 3 days from now Tubba hasn't done anything I'd be comfortable starting to call him disengaged but this is way too early to have made that call and dropped a scum read for that.
If we're talking "reachy," a player pinging you for making a single self-meta post without prompt is certainly reachy. And it's not even because I disagree that this is bothersome, but because you took issue with my reason for voting Tubba yet did practically the same thing with Trob.
@SCelestial I particularly liked the one to Osie (which is the one RE discredited the most) it gets at Osie in a really good way. My "thing" wasn't explained at all and it is weird that Osie latched onto it. The questions to Foop, Trob, and Tammy were less insightful but were also things I was curious about.
What I discredited had nothing to do with Trob but that ScarletC assumed Osie would have known that I've been scumread before for my playstyle (true but doesn't happen frequently) or posting scum games is not unusual (which would be false for me, as I rarely post my scumgames). So how would that have gotten to Osie in a really good way, if the question relied on knowledge Osie did not have?
RE has been fluffy in general (which with this playerbase I guess is to be expected), but I don't get any productive vibes from her at all. Her claims that SCelestial's questions are bad/no effort but not really scum reading SCelestial is basically an umbrella and this answer is gross. Just has zero interest in scum hunting and is pretty much saying "I want to leave my vote somewhere easy."
So the entirety of this post is false, minus fluff. Lol.
This among a couple other posts where Grape discusses ScarletC is why I think Grape and ScarletC are S/T - this is the kind of defense scum make of town. Capitalizing on my mistake (scumreading ScarletC) to scumread me. It was also around this point that I had an inkling of a thought that Osie and Grape were teammates because Grape liked Scarlet's questions of Osie but never actually went at Osie. But like ScarletC, Osie is a work-in-progress read.
I missed your Empoof vote... But yeah saying "I'm currently gut reading ScarletCelestial as scum." and then never voting them isn't really scum reading them.
If there's a world where Grape is town, it's in this post, because this almost feels like TWTBAW. This logic is insane. I'll also add, even if it's probably NAI, that Grape quoted the post where I voted Empoof.
Okay I'm back and haven't read anything since I dropped off the face of the earth. I gather from skimming this page I'm still the center of attention, which is understandable but silly.
Activity is a tell for me, but vanishing for days at a time isn't the sort of activity tell I have. I don't slank my way out of the game as scum, I just don't engage as much. Look at pirates or tokens for examples of this. I'm posting but I'm mostly limited to one or two posts per day.
I'm at work this morning and at this point it's slow going to try and do some catchup while I can.
So Grape is ballsy. Because most of Grape's posts are directed at a couple players (me) and he hasn't engaged much with the others, and I feel like he just described what he's doing here while talking about his scum game.
@Grape, mostly thread presence and concern that I'm missing something other players aren't. In F&E you seemed a lot more engaged, asked more questions and driving more dialog.
That doesn't make any sense to what I asked you. You were saying I was "good ol' town grape", but you didn't trust yourself to read me objectively. You had never expressed having difficultly reading me before. Why would you here? As for thread presence I've absolutely been less engaged. F&E was immediately fun for me because I enjoyed the playerbase so much and wasn't busy in real life.
This is a fair point. Did Tubba respond? I'd have to check again.
The first part surprises me. It feels coming back into the thread like you and SRage are the organizing presence. And that felt wrong to me based off what I knew about you from our experience together. I'd never seen you take a town leadership role.
I literally gave you a very recent scum game of mine? Like, okay, you don't have to believe me that I'm town (lol). But I feel my scum game would be a significantly better reference?
~~more back and forth with RE that really feels like Grape's beating a dead horse~~
Next stop is Osie. I almost want to leave that for day 2 though...
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This VC has been edited to reflect MarkoRaj's vote on Grapefruit21. At the time of the vote count, it looked like this:
I'll need to dig through the chat when on a computer - I know the Trob thing is a couple posts that felt like 'word salad', a bunch of words that when you actually read them didn't actually say anything.
This is something that might need a couple of opinions on. It's definitely a real style as town, "word salad." Trob posted some of their past games here: #379 in case it was missed (and the background is black!).
The squint at you was not feeling like reads you had or a push you made felt like something you genuinely could believe based on gamestate at the time, but I'll pull examples if need be.
Of course they need be!! I already have an idea of which of my cases you could be referring to, but if it has to do with two of the players I have in mind, there are going to be some issues...
ok..... you realize that like scarlet was also talking about her self-meta too, right? like that was the conversation at hand, and the second post (iirc this is 53) was a followup since scarlet asked about like my inconsistencies
not to be extra but like..... you all know how conversations work right :grimacing:
I forgot about this when I cased Grape earlier, but Grape should respond to this.
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@Grape, I've explained the read already. You looked typical early on, accrued some votes and your activity dropped off. None of the games we've played have you ever dropped off like that. That's not AI, but in conjunction with other players voting/suspecting you, I'm leery of just clearing you and placed you as neutral to prod me into being more critical of you. I'm not scum reading you at present, and it seems weird that you are fixating on this.
Okay, Tubba did. Why does this not make me feel like Tubba and Grape are unaligned.
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Also got around to doing a meta dive on Trob, cause she was kind of falling behind on my townreads. Read her latest town game and the scum game she linked. She was a bit more coherent in that town game than in this game and the scum game linked. But she was waaaaaaaay more *****posty in her scum game than in this game (tunneled the same player for maybe 10 pages and tried to justify an RVS vote on them). One of the things she was scumread for in that game was lack of content, which she dismissed rather than tried to defend.
@Trob
Was that your latest scum game? Cause I noticed it's over a year old.
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Ara doesn't ever say anything about RE/Grape being T/T. In fact, Ara has Grape as null and hasn't even really looked at them in any capacity like they're overlooking them. It's strange seeing as Grape is a contender for lynch, so I'd think by reading posts you'd at least try to gain some sort of thought on them, negative or positive.
Yeah, you're right
I completely misread one of their posts:
the early RE vote was just sheeping to make a wagon. i think random votes are useless in rvs so if i townread someone i'm just going to follow their vote and make a wagon, like yes that's buddying but i dont really care im gonna do that almost always
vote: grapefruit
this might shock people but i liked #726, my Hot Glance at it is that it's probably more town than i'm giving it credit for, a lot of the energy in it just feels unrelenting and not really in the scummy "gotcha" way that was kind of mentioned earlier. i know that's super vague and i'm probably going to follow the argument more closely later today, but reading what osie's writing it does seem like there's weird holes in scarlet's thought process (like their waffle on me is kind of confusing in a way that i don't really like, for what amount of issue they had with me in posts i've had even before my flake they didn't really prod me? just one example though)
as alluded to earlier though i have sheep on my team so i'm not going to vote scarlet off of that until i feel more clear about her (since... her posting style is kind of annoying to read on this site lol), just the critical thinking and the nuance here i think is not scum indicative for osie and this is probably the Next Best Vote
most normal people would unvote here since i dont really have a real reason to vote grape besides wagon-composition-if-osie-is-town but i dont do that
The back-and-forth between the two seems v/v to me; the thoughts and the way arguments were expressed were in a very out there sense, and the way that they're not backing down seems like more of a stubborn town mindset here over a mafia one! Also the way that it's sort of ground to a halt; I'm getting the sense that the exasperation from both sides is towny since I think mafia are more likely to just put up with the constant questioning and hope to appease town by answering rather than do something else; I do like how ScarletCelestial has seemed to attempt to focus elsewhere in particular, though!
Note that I didn't particularly follow the arguments themselves so my thoughts could be completely off base, but I'm fine with this thought for now; will actually try to parse the messages properly later!!!
Also (unrelated but I think this is my third post in a row), it has come to my attention that there's a chance that we could no lynch, which is a mildly horrifying prospect which gave me a minor mafia life crisis and also made me question my life decisions; is this a thing that people are actually considering? And if so, can we... not, please? That does remind me that I still have yet to ISO the people I meant to ISO like Grapefruit; making a note of that, actually, which I feel like I should probably have made notes in the first place... better late than never, I guess?
I thought she was talking about Grape/me, but she was talking about you and Osie. Hmm. ~read undergoing process~
I don't think that's what Vox had in mind when putting me and Grape in the same category. Grape is null for him (which kind of goes along with what you said about Ara). He's considering me as possible teammates with Trob.
I've misread you before. I've only successfully read you strongly in Terraformers, but that was due to the one on one you had with Wisp that got heated, so not the ideal circumstances. Comparing that to you and Osie in this game, it's different because you are frustrated, versus being upset. Being upset (the combo of sad + angry) is harder to fake than just being angry. Feeling upset comes from a sense of being wronged, which barring certain circumstances, comes exclusively from town... You were upset during CoD, but I still scumread you that game because you ignored some of my questions and mechanics were just not my strong suit at the time (and still aren't, really x.x).
If I had to say, your play this game resembles more of the TPR games than the town games I've seen from you, but there isn't TPR in this game. So you're more of a work-in-progress read (kind of similar to Osie, actually), and I don't think I want to lynch you today.
The difference between this game and CoD was a simple one:
In CoD it had the underlying factor that I wasn't being listened to about osie, and I thought osie was trying to dismiss me entirely because that was a part of my case. Here it felt like the similar triggery-ness of CoD but there was nothing that suggested I wouldn't be listened to. How does this represent my TPR games more, do you feel? Are you only comparing me to my games from MAL?
Also: lol you thinking I'm scum for misreading things in prior games.
Does the difference in what Ara said change anything?
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So I've been reading through the games of Tubba Fett (as linked by RE) and found what she did, the games have more in common with each other than they do this. The lack of interaction and posting here is making it harder to read him, I suspect.
Then: I realised these were also examples of Grape Town/Scum games. So I looked through those also.
Their scum game: They don't really push anything early on, just throw shade in a singular direction (kinda like how they've got a focus on RE here) and anything besides that has very little explanation or is very surface level. This changes later on to be more detailed and cover more bases. They also kinda revolve around their scum read, without actually talking to them much. They don't start making cases on others until later on, and only upon request. Please bare in mind that their early game also had them being unable to play much.
Their Town game: They had a lot less focus, and instead was able to talk to more people, and gave explanations for their Townreads without needing to be prompted. Despite being on Kabazame, they were able to address issues with them instead of coming to the conclusion that someone was scum very quickly, like in their scum game (and here).
I think the big difference is on their focus. In this game and their scum game it all revolves around a single scumread early on, and they got to that conclusion nearly straight away and never stopped to re-evaluate. This could be their scum game, and I was majorly wrong.
Can someone else have a look at those games for me just in case I'm wrong about something?
PS: Now going to Knightsbridge, will bring up osie ISO so I can read it on the tube. On another note, I will be going home tomorrow and it's a 4+ hour drive so I won't be able to be around (except maybe when I wake up) but I will be around for 7+ hours before EoD on Wednesday.
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The difference between this game and CoD was a simple one:
In CoD it had the underlying factor that I wasn't being listened to about osie, and I thought osie was trying to dismiss me entirely because that was a part of my case. Here it felt like the similar triggery-ness of CoD but there was nothing that suggested I wouldn't be listened to. How does this represent my TPR games more, do you feel? Are you only comparing me to my games from MAL?
Also: lol you thinking I'm scum for misreading things in prior games.
Does the difference in what Ara said change anything?
You jump at everything in your TPR (serial killer) games. I'm pretty sure you had a higher post count in your TPR games than as town. You had more focus in your questions as town, and didn't just ask everyone everything. I don't have much experience with you as mafia, just a single game on MAL where you subbed out pretty early on and I skimmed one of your scum games on MU out of boredom one time. I remember basically nothing; maybe if I'm bored again, I'll skim.
No, not misreading. Blatantly ignoring my questions. I took it as a sign you couldn't answer them, because you were scum. I take responsibility for that game because we definitely should have lynched Osie right after Shinichi no questions asked (it was like a Miller claim after a red check), but there were way too many distractions in that game, and IRL, for me at least. I might have listened to you if I wasn't feeling so apathetic at the time. Maybe, maybe not. I think that game was the final straw for me though when it came to rewiring how I played games. Anyway....
It makes my Grape/Ara team less selling
I'm gonna wait for Ara to respond to Vox about her team's meta read on Osie, because that might be big. Right now she's pretty low still, a couple things pinged me I've already mentioned and I need to read her old games to see if she's usually in this commentary mode.
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There are 12 players. The highest wagon we have had is 3. Right now, 10 players are voting. Two are not. This has a 6 man lynch at deadline. We have less than two required posts left per slot. Join a wagon with someone else. In 12 hours, any wagon shorter than 3 should not be viable. Let's go.
The difference between this game and CoD was a simple one:
In CoD it had the underlying factor that I wasn't being listened to about osie, and I thought osie was trying to dismiss me entirely because that was a part of my case. Here it felt like the similar triggery-ness of CoD but there was nothing that suggested I wouldn't be listened to. How does this represent my TPR games more, do you feel? Are you only comparing me to my games from MAL?
Also: lol you thinking I'm scum for misreading things in prior games.
Does the difference in what Ara said change anything?
You jump at everything in your TPR (serial killer) games. I'm pretty sure you had a higher post count in your TPR games than as town. You had more focus in your questions as town, and didn't just ask everyone everything. I don't have much experience with you as mafia, just a single game on MAL where you subbed out pretty early on and I skimmed one of your scum games on MU out of boredom one time. I remember basically nothing; maybe if I'm bored again, I'll skim.
No, not misreading. Blatantly ignoring my questions. I took it as a sign you couldn't answer them, because you were scum. I take responsibility for that game because we definitely should have lynched Osie right after Shinichi no questions asked (it was like a Miller claim after a red check), but there were way too many distractions in that game, and IRL, for me at least. I might have listened to you if I wasn't feeling so apathetic at the time. Maybe, maybe not. I think that game was the final straw for me though when it came to rewiring how I played games. Anyway....
It makes my Grape/Ara team less selling
I'm gonna wait for Ara to respond to Vox about her team's meta read on Osie, because that might be big. Right now she's pretty low still, a couple things pinged me I've already mentioned and I need to read her old games to see if she's usually in this commentary mode.
I had a seemingly higher post count - it was just that the games were dead. Anyway, my post count is NAI. I usually start asking more focused questions when I'm paying enough attention (which I wasn't for the first week) and once I have a lead (which I don't really this game so really I'm just poking everything with a stick until something comes up, which is why my Grape ISO resulted in so many questions) which usually happens later Day 1/early Day 2. That MAL game wasn't very representative either, since I was sick with that weird cough I had and subbed out in around 20 posts I felt so bad.
I think that can again be explained by me trying to skim through things quickly since I haven't had much time, but have been trying to play. I don't think I've missed anything since I came to London.
Why do you think that? I personally think it might point to a Ara/Grape scumteam. It reminds me a lot of scum interactions when there's no chance to try and distance, and it from a psychological perspective, people tend to put scumbuddies in Neutral so that they can read them as whatever and get away with it. With how much time Ara and Grape have been putting into the game (very little) it would make sense if they were in a rush. I don't really like pre-flip associations but this is something that stook out.
I've been waiting for Ara to answer my new questions (unless I'm muddling those up with something else) and I'm also waiting for Grape's answers to my questions. There were a lot of holes when I ISO'd them.
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Why do you think that? I personally think it might point to a Ara/Grape scumteam. It reminds me a lot of scum interactions when there's no chance to try and distance, and it from a psychological perspective, people tend to put scumbuddies in Neutral so that they can read them as whatever and get away with it. With how much time Ara and Grape have been putting into the game (very little) it would make sense if they were in a rush. I don't really like pre-flip associations but this is something that stook out.
I've been waiting for Ara to answer my new questions (unless I'm muddling those up with something else) and I'm also waiting for Grape's answers to my questions. There were a lot of holes when I ISO'd them.
Ara suggesting me and Grape being T/T would have been a bad look for her because it defends Grape without aggravating me (low risk defense) and also might have been an attempt to get me (or others) to back off of Grape.
But if I think about it, it might even suggest there's scum between you and Osie if Ara is scum. Tbh I didn't really like Osie's reaction and vote on you. He said something along the lines earlier that you always scumread him, which might have been a fair comment if he had actually been townreading you, but he wasn't. And I really did not like his response to your "if osie is town, lynch me" comment. Your comment wasn't great (it's only day 1!!), but his was worse. If he was scumreading you, he shouldn't have taken your comment seriously, and thought of it as scum faking a reaction. It seemed more like he took the opportunity to appear like town in that response.
I did consider a Grape/Osie team earlier when Grape defended your questions to Osie. But it was such a miniscule interaction I ignored the thought ~.~
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There are 12 players. The highest wagon we have had is 3. Right now, 10 players are voting. Two are not. This has a 6 man lynch at deadline. We have less than two required posts left per slot. Join a wagon with someone else. In 12 hours, any wagon shorter than 3 should not be viable. Let's go.
Why do you think that? I personally think it might point to a Ara/Grape scumteam. It reminds me a lot of scum interactions when there's no chance to try and distance, and it from a psychological perspective, people tend to put scumbuddies in Neutral so that they can read them as whatever and get away with it. With how much time Ara and Grape have been putting into the game (very little) it would make sense if they were in a rush. I don't really like pre-flip associations but this is something that stook out.
I've been waiting for Ara to answer my new questions (unless I'm muddling those up with something else) and I'm also waiting for Grape's answers to my questions. There were a lot of holes when I ISO'd them.
Ara suggesting me and Grape being T/T would have been a bad look for her because it defends Grape without aggravating me (low risk defense) and also might have been an attempt to get me (or others) to back off of Grape.
But if I think about it, it might even suggest there's scum between you and Osie if Ara is scum. Tbh I didn't really like Osie's reaction and vote on you. He said something along the lines earlier that you always scumread him, which might have been a fair comment if he had actually been townreading you, but he wasn't. And I really did not like his response to your "if osie is town, lynch me" comment. Your comment wasn't great (it's only day 1!!), but his was worse. If he was scumreading you, he shouldn't have taken your comment seriously, and thought of it as scum faking a reaction. It seemed more like he took the opportunity to appear like town in that response.
I did consider a Grape/Osie team earlier when Grape defended your questions to Osie. But it was such a miniscule interaction I ignored the thought ~.~
My issue with osie now is that I don't think he'd say what he did to me after I lashed out as scum, and it gave me this wave of doubt. (Still haven't looked at his ISO again though to see if I'm wrong or not though...)
I can see why you'd say that about the Ara thingy, but it's something that'd tie her to Grape. If she failed, then it'd look bad on her.
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
I've actually been secretly planning to CFD voxx this whole time
Depends on however many people are around on Wednesday prior to EoD really... especially with how some people (cough) you, Ara, Grape, Tubba, Voxx (cough) haven't shown up often.
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My issue with osie now is that I don't think he'd say what he did to me after I lashed out as scum, and it gave me this wave of doubt. (Still haven't looked at his ISO again though to see if I'm wrong or not though...)
I can see why you'd say that about the Ara thingy, but it's something that'd tie her to Grape. If she failed, then it'd look bad on her.
Which post in particular? Because if it was the "i'll switch if me being town makes you wanna lynch yourself," that comment is perfectly NAI. It's fakeable. It's supposed to spew him as town, but it's not a reaction town makes to someone they're scumreading. 57% certainty here.
Yeah, probably. I've done it as scum before though and it worked until the roleblocked cop claimed a red check on our Godfather in MyLo :')
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My issue with osie now is that I don't think he'd say what he did to me after I lashed out as scum, and it gave me this wave of doubt. (Still haven't looked at his ISO again though to see if I'm wrong or not though...)
I can see why you'd say that about the Ara thingy, but it's something that'd tie her to Grape. If she failed, then it'd look bad on her.
Which post in particular? Because if it was the "i'll switch if me being town makes you wanna lynch yourself," that comment is perfectly NAI. It's fakeable. It's supposed to spew him as town, but it's not a reaction town makes to someone they're scumreading. 57% certainty here.
Yeah, probably. I've done it as scum before though and it worked until the roleblocked cop claimed a red check on our Godfather in MyLo :')
I'm not going to ignore the strong feeling I had there: but that's why I'm just going to look over the ISO once more (once I've finished reading what I am currently reading).
I'm using the perspective that both Grape and Ara are heavily scumread, so is very close to being lynched. It's like making a Mason claim as scum.
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@Titus You asked me about the Lynch/NK/Kill thing: what does it say about me? Also, why haven't you been trying to do this with Grape, your other scumread (though I'm guessing it's just because they disappeared off the face of the Earth)?
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The creature appears almost human, much depleted from its former fiery magnificence.
I started to do a deep dive into mine and Osie's past I nteractions, both in response to their assertion that I shouldn't have a confident meta read, and to RE'a curiousity regarding my desire to vote there but the lack of one. After reviewing, I think it's less helpful and will summarize how I feel about it. Disdain is the word that comes to mind, like I'm that mildly noxious fart on the bus that hangs till your stop. My response to that is to emotionally want Osie to be scum. I want that vindication, I want to be able to say "Who's hanging out with ghost pandas now!" Logically, I'm not certain of Osie's alignment, and understanding my biases in their regard is partly holding me back from voting there.
Another aspect to withholding my vote, is that in a sense I'm holding some power over the game state, and sooner or later someone will start either pressuring me to vote or excoriate me for not voting. That could be a potential windfall of information for post flip analysis.
This sums up my statement regarding Voxx's lack of force this game (before I understood they were not well).
Something pinged me in Ara's 747 and 748, I keep reading it and can't put my finger on it, but something feels off there.
I'm in catch-up mode because of the amount of time I wasted reading old games and quick topics, so I'm sure this post is already outdated.
A sad note, I'm afraid I might have to drop my gimmick. It's becoming hard to come up with headings of decent quality and it's slowing my play pace from it's typical glacial to downright geological.
But if I think about it, it might even suggest there's scum between you and Osie if Ara is scum. Tbh I didn't really like Osie's reaction and vote on you. He said something along the lines earlier that you always scumread him, which might have been a fair comment if he had actually been townreading you, but he wasn't. And I really did not like his response to your "if osie is town, lynch me" comment. Your comment wasn't great (it's only day 1!!), but his was worse. If he was scumreading you, he shouldn't have taken your comment seriously, and thought of it as scum faking a reaction. It seemed more like he took the opportunity to appear like town in that response.
I did consider a Grape/Osie team earlier when Grape defended your questions to Osie. But it was such a miniscule interaction I ignored the thought ~.~
I don't know her alignment, but I was starting to think (and do more so now) that that was more likely to come from town. But it didn't matter. My post there should categorically not be read as anything other than NAI, since it was literally saying "If someone won't enjoy the game if I'm in it, then I'll leave the game." I'm never going to intentionally stay in a game at the cost of someone else's enjoyment. And that's why I said just "No." in response to you accusing me of cheating. (Thanks for that! /sarcasm) Because that post was me attempting to swap out. That's apparently not an option; the only option is finding replacement. But Scarlet made it clear that she doesn't prefer that step. So it's a moot point and we can move on.
By the way,
Unvote
Vote Ara
I'm still not convinced that Celeste is town, but I've moved her up to uncertain enough that I want to look elsewhere, and my vote is not doing much there anyways.
When Ara is talking to me, such as in our interactions on the past few pages, it sounds like she is certain that I'm town. When she's talking to Troba about me, she hedges her read a lot more. And she's been saying she's going to get engaged, but it still doesn't seem like she is.
I feel like Grape's frustration and tunnel in response to RE might be slightly townie, though I still feel like his posting quality is way subpar for his usual. I'd still be willing to lynch him, especially if that persists, but I think either Ara, Empoof, or possibly Celeste/Tubba are better lynches for the day.
I'm going to go read through some people again. See if anything stands out. Because usually I've found a more certain scumread or nagging tinfoil that turns out to be right by this point in the game. I have two bits of nagging tinfoil, but they require some more research and I'm probably not going to follow either until Day 2.
Yeah, my brain is glossing over posts pretty hard.
I'll try and ISO some contentious people tomorrow.
I think Tammy and Empoof are solidly town.
I actually think Tubba is super likely to be town here, but I'm going to admit that's largely off sponging teammate reads as posts of his get linked.
I'm not sure I want to touch Osie or SC with a ten foot pole after that conversation above until I have time to dwell on it. It's... pretty gross as either alignment but I need to figure out if I think it makes them both town, or if I just want them to be both town.
I don't really understand why there are votes on Grapefruit, but I also don't have any recollection of Grapefruit making any posts, so maybe that answers my own question. He's on the docket to look into in the morning/afternoon tomorrow.
I think Titus is >rand to be a wolf this game, for reasons I'm struggling to articulate. Feels like there's an element of 'give people what they want' to their posts, and there was something specifically I need to pull out of their ISO to look at. Guess I'll just try to do it now while I'm thinking about it:
You can join us on Grape then. Right now, I think he has a >50% chance of being scum. Not as high as the fake scarlet but we need wagon pressure.
Titus posted this, and it feels like a disconnect to me between saying there's two people that are >50% likely to be scum, and them talking about how D1 is a total crapshoot, that they'd lynch at rand if they could, etc. Ties into that 'give people what they want' feeling, I just have trouble connecting them genuinely believing there's 2 people that are >50% likely to be a wolf with also having the belief that lynching d1 is random-ish.
I have no idea on Marko. He hadn't really posted by time I was unable to follow things closely, might take a look at him before EoD, but more likely I just shuffle him off to D2 as it doesn't seem like he's a priority to assess right now.
My team is side eyeing RE and Trob a little bit, but that kind of sounds like a D2 thing for me to look at also, probably.
I'm still missing a chunk of game, and want to do a full re-read, but that's not happening before EoD. I guess I'm at [Ara, Titus] > [Grapefruit, Marko, RE, Trob] as my rough PoE right now, but that'll obviously get refined soon. I think I've talked myself into maybe town reading both Osie and SC while writing this post, and that could be a mistake, but is what it is for now. [Voxx, Tammy, Empoof, Tubba, Osie, SC] town core? Hum.
Voxxicus
Tammy
Empoof
Tubba
SC
Osie
Grapefruit
Marko
RE
Trob
Titus
Ara
RE/Trob are possibly too low, that's almost entirely based on some throwaway team recommendations to look at them closer, but having them in the null cluster with Grape/Marko feels about right given that.
I'd like to see more responses to this post from Voxx.
I'm getting this weird mishmash of town pings and scum pings from different parts of this, and I think it might be hugely relevant. I agree with some of his reads and completely disagree on others. I guess my best way to describe how I feel about this post is that it feels... dangerous. Like, if Voxx is scum, this post is a multitool of fake, low content reads he can fiddle with (except for his read on Titus, which albeit could be a bus, but is marginally more likely to be unaligned. If Voxx is town, this post is a lighter-than-ideal outlook on the game that may or may not be useful, with a really notable read on Titus. I don't trust a bunch of his towncore, though, so I'm net slightly scumleaning this post in and of itself.
osie, I just don't think there's much to go off on with Voxx's readlist. I'm baring in mind that he's probably not thinking too great (I know someone IRL who is in a similar position to Voxx - he's unable to read off white due to some eye issue - and he gets bad migraines from it as well) due to experiences of this I have seen. I think it would be much easier to read him Day 2 once he has had the time to look over things again.
One issue you have is that he didn't write much: but that would be in the parameters of his condition. He was probably rushing so he didn't have to endure the pain. It's pretty NAI. He likely explained more on Titus because she was one of his biggest scumreads, and he had already explained Ara to a point so it fits. The headache was also likely why he skipped over Tammy (obvious) and Empoof (which I think he already explained). I think the only issue with that is that I want to know why despite lumping them together they were put on separate tiers. And still, it's a minor inconsistency likely caused by lack of care.
Tubba I think has been given a little too much credit for being a sheep read, but I think he must just trust his teammates. I'd like that to be updated though when given the chance. But that's pretty much my thoughts on this list.
osie, may I ask what pinged you about it, both the Town and scum parts? If you had to decide which of your explanations with what else Voxx has posted, would this be Townie or scummy or IDK?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
My response to that is to emotionally want Osie to be scum. I want that vindication, I want to be able to say "Who's hanging out with ghost pandas now!" Logically, I'm not certain of Osie's alignment, and understanding my biases in their regard is partly holding me back from voting there.
Another aspect to withholding my vote, is that in a sense I'm holding some power over the game state, and sooner or later someone will start either pressuring me to vote or excoriate me for not voting. That could be a potential windfall of information for post flip analysis.
Carl the invisible ghost panda just went out, bought a box of blueberry waffles, and ate them in your kitchen with some bell peppers, bay scallops, and a lot of salt. (And here I thought I wasn't going to get any use out of that joke again in a game with you. You brought this on yourself.)
Your bolding of words here feels overdramatized, and the phrase "I'm holding some power over the game state" is awful. That said...
I don't know her alignment, but I was starting to think (and do more so now) that that was more likely to come from town. But it didn't matter. My post there should categorically not be read as anything other than NAI, since it was literally saying "If someone won't enjoy the game if I'm in it, then I'll leave the game." I'm never going to intentionally stay in a game at the cost of someone else's enjoyment. And that's why I said just "No." in response to you accusing me of cheating. (Thanks for that! /sarcasm) Because that post was me attempting to swap out. That's apparently not an option; the only option is finding replacement. But Scarlet made it clear that she doesn't prefer that step. So it's a moot point and we can move on.
See, that's the issue. You believed Scarlet when she said that. Why didn't you think it could have been a faked reaction? If you were scumreading her, that could have been faked frustration. She tunneled you throughout this game, then said something rather extreme for her situation - that if she was wrong about you, she wanted to be lynched.
There was no reason for you to have bought that reaction. You even accused her of using AtE. And I don't think it had anything to do with enjoyment, but that it would have been a blow to her confidence if she was wrong, or something. I think you've been reasonable this game. It would have been selfish for the other person to expect you (or anyone) to leave. That's something for the mod to decide.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
This is a friendly reminder that the deadline is in ~48.5 hours. I'll try to be around to do vote counts more frequently during the final 24 hours but don't expect them every hour or anything.
Grapefruit21 has been prodded.
Problems with this vote count? PM me or DM me on Discord for the fastest response. Posting something in-thread will probably get my attention eventually.
This vote wasn't counted because it lacks a space between the ":" and grapefruit's name. I guess. I thought those were optional, but, you live and learn. I will update the rules post linked in the OP to make the space requirement explicit. In the meantime, I've hand counted your vote and edited Vote Count 1.9 to reflect it.
This is the best criticism of my play so far. Tbh, lynching d1 is randomish but we kinda have to play based on our reads. I feel that my theiry is correct but that doesn't change the law of averages or that we need wagon pressure to get dolid vote anslysis later.
I also find Ara's posting telling and perhaps indicative of Scarlet plus Ara or Grape plus Ara might be a thing. Ara hasn't been engaging with the substance of players posts. Instead, he's trying to bring attention and shade back to me. Eyeballing this, I would say greater than 75% of her slots have some sort of question as to why is Titus scum, trying to plant that idea without actually hunting. There are several slots Ara seems to outright ignore.
That can give people an idea of my relation to teammates and who might have some ability to assist you with your reading of me in this game.
Gotta go.
The argument for lynching villa = pro ev means bussing harder. I don't buy it. Day 1 should be taken seriously but there's nothing solid to base things on. Hence random.
Open question Is there anyone besides me who tried to blatantly defend Grape?
To Grape
- You asked for a game where RE was leader. How did this help you formulate a read on RE? Were there any differences between the games you played with them and any games you were given? (Or were you not given any and this question is pointless?)
- Would you say this conforms to any scum game of which you've seen RE in in the past (if you haven't seen her in any scum games, ignore this)
- Why are the no Marko votes odd when everybody already had stronger suspects? What does this make of Marko?
- What is your actual read/case on me anyway? (Actually, just give a readlist as well seeing as you've talked to/about so few people...)
- You said that RE was scummy because she was unable to explain something in her case against me, aren't I guilty in the same about some points in the osie case?
- You say that you think RE is deliberately misrepresenting you. What's the difference with me not answering things properly and thereby making the same mistakes?
- What is the difference between treating someone as Town and someone as scum?
To Titus
- Why not try to continue pushing me when other people (RE, osie) want me dead just as much as you (as of the point where you moved your vote to Grape)?
- Related to the above, is the any particular reason as to why you're trying to shuffle people onto Grape?
(Also @Arapocalypse the pleasing thing was just a passing thought, and I think it only really applies to where they changed their vote. With the context I now have from the ISO, it was more likely because they were trying to build a majority wagon)
No way am I taking part in any sort of world building post-Frostpunk. There was nothing tying the scum team together, and that's what made Town lose. Based on that, at this point I'm only focusing on the individuals who seem scummy to me. This doesn't mean that it's useful to some, it just means I'm ******* scared to do it.
So, may I ask you, @Foopme and @Tammy, why you think world building is good at this stage of the game?
I don't think I wanted you dead today, actually, more like I scumread you but I don't totally trust myself on that read?
Ara/Grape are my current picks for today's lynch. *resists temptation to answer*
@Vox
Could you explain why your team has considered me and Trob as scumbuddies? And why you think SC and Osie are T/T.
@MarkoRaj I don't like being (unintentionally) ignored T.T
I would technically describe what Voxx said as more of a soft defence perhaps, and by the looks of it he changed his mind seeing as you're on the same tier as them. Ara's I have no clue what is going on with that until I look at it in context (I'll do that next, this is in reply to the bolded.)
Elaboration, RE. Saying you want me dead is me exaggerating that you wouldn't mind my lynch. Why don't you trust yourself on my read (well, anything besides what you said in all caps...)?
Grapefruit
MarkoRaj
Tubba
^ Got any thoughts on these three, seeing as you said they were null last time you talked about them?
Is Titus the only person you'd be willing to lynch today?
Oops. What I meant to say was: That game obviously isn't indicative of nothing, but it needs to be taken with a giant grain of salt since I was on damage control pretty much the whole game and incredibly on edge. I also had much less respect for the people who I was playing with in that game than I should have had, and as such was just all around much more ballsy than I'd usually be, especially as scum. Didn't help matters that Shinichi and less so Karote were doing some degree of ego boosting me during that game, leading me to act even more arrogant than I already was. That's why I say even though I turned that game around and nearly won it that I am not proud of it, not to mention the incredibly awful clash with Celeste in that game.
Ara doesn't ever say anything about RE/Grape being T/T. In fact, Ara has Grape as null and hasn't even really looked at them in any capacity like they're overlooking them. It's strange seeing as Grape is a contender for lynch, so I'd think by reading posts you'd at least try to gain some sort of thought on them, negative or positive.
My team's wanted my vote here the past couple days, but well I was hoping to settle my feelings elsewhere first. This is my best guess for right now. I don't get a real sense of trying to figure out the game and I don't much like the other two wagons.
I was just trying to read through Ara's iso but like I just found out that my stepdad was admitted to the hospital today and it doesn't look good, and I can't really focus, so I'm going to just summarize my team thoughts that the the catch up posts lack a sense of sorting the game, the readslists felt like a mix of appeasement, shoehorning and lacked a sense of legitimate sorting process. These thoughts are mostly on the catch up posts which they thought could be tempered by the fact that it was obvious she was hurrying to catch up to get current, which could explain some of the lack of depth. There's also something off about the Titus push. (this is a far less eloquent paraphrase than the original.)
Anyway none of us has gotten a real sense of sorting the game.
Ara - responding to your question about Titus' meta and my experience. Titus and I have been playing together since 2013 at mafiascum. I haven't played much mafia in the past year or so, so I don't know if some of her meta has evolved. We've played together a fair amount, and I've run the gamut on reads on her for a variety of reasons. I've gotten her right sometimes and I've gotten her wrong sometimes. Is there a reason you've been interested in how I've read people in the past and why I've read them the way I've read them in the past?
You said that your team gave you thoughts on Osie and that he was town from your teammates, but have they given you input on Titus? Lissa's been in games with Titus, so if they're talking to you about Osie have they talked to you about Titus' meta and your expectations?
Voxx - Glad you're feeling better and posting!
Celestial - World building is good at any stage because it's a good check on your reads. And worldbuilding is something that is going to look different from person to person and experience. For me when I have a poe that doesn't make sense to hold the entire scum team, I know that I'm trying town read scum, which makes me reassess my reads. People can subvert expectations for how scum are going to interact and sometimes people have been cleared people from being a partner when they shouldn't, but that doesn't mean it's not useful.
I'm sorry if I missed anything.
Unvote
since I have yet to read osie's ISO, still have a bad feeling that I am majorly wrong, and I'm waiting for Ara's answers before I do anything there.
Night.
I completely misread one of their posts:
I don't think that's what Vox had in mind when putting me and Grape in the same category. Grape is null for him (which kind of goes along with what you said about Ara). He's considering me as possible teammates with Trob.
I've misread you before. I've only successfully read you strongly in Terraformers, but that was due to the one on one you had with Wisp that got heated, so not the ideal circumstances. Comparing that to you and Osie in this game, it's different because you are frustrated, versus being upset. Being upset (the combo of sad + angry) is harder to fake than just being angry. Feeling upset comes from a sense of being wronged, which barring certain circumstances, comes exclusively from town... You were upset during CoD, but I still scumread you that game because you ignored some of my questions and mechanics were just not my strong suit at the time (and still aren't, really x.x).
If I had to say, your play this game resembles more of the TPR games than the town games I've seen from you, but there isn't TPR in this game. So you're more of a work-in-progress read (kind of similar to Osie, actually), and I don't think I want to lynch you today.
I think you misunderstand. I'm not looking at you/Trob as a team, I'm looking at you two as individually possible wolves that slipped under radar a bit, because my team was squinting at you both (for different reasons). I haven't been able to look into it enough to form my own opinion, but given I have a chunk of other town reads, it gets you guys temporarily slotted in the 'null/light scum by virtue of not being a town read' category.
My two primary objectives for remaining time are doing full re-reads of Ara and Grapefruit. I'll do a full game re-read over night phase and hopefully come out fully up to speed with reads firmed up for D2. Sorry for the lackluster activity, health happens sometimes, and the white background with no alternative skins on this site is straight up murder on my eyes right now.
I'm gonna be afk the rest of the day and kind of just... chill out. But I'll be on tomorrow.
On skim voxx town
In that case, I'd be curious for the reasons, whenever possible
(I feel a little bad for saying this, but it's more so I want proof they exist... Since I'm not sure how "slipping under the radar" would describe my play this game.)
~~~
And well, activate the panic button.
I've ISO'd Tubba in two of his games:
Town: It was a Dark and Stormy Night
Scum: Low Fantasy
For Funsies:
The only thing significant I can really garner is I don't know why Tubba is holding off from voting here.
I'll need to dig through the chat when on a computer - I know the Trob thing is a couple posts that felt like 'word salad', a bunch of words that when you actually read them didn't actually say anything.
The squint at you was not feeling like reads you had or a push you made felt like something you genuinely could believe based on gamestate at the time, but I'll pull examples if need be.
It's mostly irrelevant because I'm going to form my own opinions, just given I don't currently have strong opinions on either of you, my team going 'ehhhh' is enough to have you in nullish section, if that makes sense. I actively scum read Ara and Titus, though not completely sold on that being w/w. I think there's probably? 1-2 wolves in [Grape, Marko, RE, Trob] due to town reading the other 6 players, but that's not where I really want to focus the remaining 48ish hours.
This among a couple other posts where Grape discusses ScarletC is why I think Grape and ScarletC are S/T - this is the kind of defense scum make of town. Capitalizing on my mistake (scumreading ScarletC) to scumread me. It was also around this point that I had an inkling of a thought that Osie and Grape were teammates because Grape liked Scarlet's questions of Osie but never actually went at Osie. But like ScarletC, Osie is a work-in-progress read. If there's a world where Grape is town, it's in this post, because this almost feels like TWTBAW. This logic is insane. I'll also add, even if it's probably NAI, that Grape quoted the post where I voted Empoof. So Grape is ballsy. Because most of Grape's posts are directed at a couple players (me) and he hasn't engaged much with the others, and I feel like he just described what he's doing here while talking about his scum game. This is a fair point. Did Tubba respond? I'd have to check again.
I literally gave you a very recent scum game of mine? Like, okay, you don't have to believe me that I'm town (lol). But I feel my scum game would be a significantly better reference?
~~more back and forth with RE that really feels like Grape's beating a dead horse~~
Next stop is Osie. I almost want to leave that for day 2 though...
Arapocalypse - 3 (Voxxicus, Foopme, Tammy)
RE1031 - 1 (Grapefruit21)
Scarlet Rage - 1 (Arapocalypse)
ScarletCelestial - 1 (osieorb18)
Not Voting - 2 (Tubba Fett, ScarletCelestial)
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends at 14:30 Eastern Time on August 1st unless there is a majority lynch.
Foopme is V/LA for ~24 hours.
Problems with this vote count? PM me or DM me on Discord for the fastest response. Posting something in-thread will probably get my attention eventually.
This VC has been edited to reflect MarkoRaj's vote on Grapefruit21. At the time of the vote count, it looked like this:
Grapefruit21 - 3 (RE1031, Scarlet Rage, Trobairitz)
RE1031 - 1 (Grapefruit21)
Scarlet Rage - 1 (Arapocalypse)
Foopme - 1 (MarkoRaj)
ScarletCelestial - 1 (osieorb18)
Not Voting - 2 (Tubba Fett, ScarletCelestial)
I forgot about this when I cased Grape earlier, but Grape should respond to this.
@Trob
Was that your latest scum game? Cause I noticed it's over a year old.
The difference between this game and CoD was a simple one:
In CoD it had the underlying factor that I wasn't being listened to about osie, and I thought osie was trying to dismiss me entirely because that was a part of my case. Here it felt like the similar triggery-ness of CoD but there was nothing that suggested I wouldn't be listened to. How does this represent my TPR games more, do you feel? Are you only comparing me to my games from MAL?
Also: lol you thinking I'm scum for misreading things in prior games.
Does the difference in what Ara said change anything?
Then: I realised these were also examples of Grape Town/Scum games. So I looked through those also.
Their scum game: They don't really push anything early on, just throw shade in a singular direction (kinda like how they've got a focus on RE here) and anything besides that has very little explanation or is very surface level. This changes later on to be more detailed and cover more bases. They also kinda revolve around their scum read, without actually talking to them much. They don't start making cases on others until later on, and only upon request. Please bare in mind that their early game also had them being unable to play much.
Their Town game: They had a lot less focus, and instead was able to talk to more people, and gave explanations for their Townreads without needing to be prompted. Despite being on Kabazame, they were able to address issues with them instead of coming to the conclusion that someone was scum very quickly, like in their scum game (and here).
I think the big difference is on their focus. In this game and their scum game it all revolves around a single scumread early on, and they got to that conclusion nearly straight away and never stopped to re-evaluate. This could be their scum game, and I was majorly wrong.
Can someone else have a look at those games for me just in case I'm wrong about something?
PS: Now going to Knightsbridge, will bring up osie ISO so I can read it on the tube. On another note, I will be going home tomorrow and it's a 4+ hour drive so I won't be able to be around (except maybe when I wake up) but I will be around for 7+ hours before EoD on Wednesday.
No, not misreading. Blatantly ignoring my questions. I took it as a sign you couldn't answer them, because you were scum. I take responsibility for that game because we definitely should have lynched Osie right after Shinichi no questions asked (it was like a Miller claim after a red check), but there were way too many distractions in that game, and IRL, for me at least. I might have listened to you if I wasn't feeling so apathetic at the time. Maybe, maybe not. I think that game was the final straw for me though when it came to rewiring how I played games. Anyway....
It makes my Grape/Ara team less selling
I'm gonna wait for Ara to respond to Vox about her team's meta read on Osie, because that might be big. Right now she's pretty low still, a couple things pinged me I've already mentioned and I need to read her old games to see if she's usually in this commentary mode.
There are 12 players. The highest wagon we have had is 3. Right now, 10 players are voting. Two are not. This has a 6 man lynch at deadline. We have less than two required posts left per slot. Join a wagon with someone else. In 12 hours, any wagon shorter than 3 should not be viable. Let's go.
I had a seemingly higher post count - it was just that the games were dead. Anyway, my post count is NAI. I usually start asking more focused questions when I'm paying enough attention (which I wasn't for the first week) and once I have a lead (which I don't really this game so really I'm just poking everything with a stick until something comes up, which is why my Grape ISO resulted in so many questions) which usually happens later Day 1/early Day 2. That MAL game wasn't very representative either, since I was sick with that weird cough I had and subbed out in around 20 posts I felt so bad.
I think that can again be explained by me trying to skim through things quickly since I haven't had much time, but have been trying to play. I don't think I've missed anything since I came to London.
Why do you think that? I personally think it might point to a Ara/Grape scumteam. It reminds me a lot of scum interactions when there's no chance to try and distance, and it from a psychological perspective, people tend to put scumbuddies in Neutral so that they can read them as whatever and get away with it. With how much time Ara and Grape have been putting into the game (very little) it would make sense if they were in a rush. I don't really like pre-flip associations but this is something that stook out.
I've been waiting for Ara to answer my new questions (unless I'm muddling those up with something else) and I'm also waiting for Grape's answers to my questions. There were a lot of holes when I ISO'd them.
But if I think about it, it might even suggest there's scum between you and Osie if Ara is scum. Tbh I didn't really like Osie's reaction and vote on you. He said something along the lines earlier that you always scumread him, which might have been a fair comment if he had actually been townreading you, but he wasn't. And I really did not like his response to your "if osie is town, lynch me" comment. Your comment wasn't great (it's only day 1!!), but his was worse. If he was scumreading you, he shouldn't have taken your comment seriously, and thought of it as scum faking a reaction. It seemed more like he took the opportunity to appear like town in that response.
I did consider a Grape/Osie team earlier when Grape defended your questions to Osie. But it was such a miniscule interaction I ignored the thought ~.~
Just revote then.
My issue with osie now is that I don't think he'd say what he did to me after I lashed out as scum, and it gave me this wave of doubt. (Still haven't looked at his ISO again though to see if I'm wrong or not though...)
I can see why you'd say that about the Ara thingy, but it's something that'd tie her to Grape. If she failed, then it'd look bad on her.
Depends on however many people are around on Wednesday prior to EoD really... especially with how some people (cough) you, Ara, Grape, Tubba, Voxx (cough) haven't shown up often.
Yeah, probably. I've done it as scum before though and it worked until the roleblocked cop claimed a red check on our Godfather in MyLo :')
I'm not going to ignore the strong feeling I had there: but that's why I'm just going to look over the ISO once more (once I've finished reading what I am currently reading).
I'm using the perspective that both Grape and Ara are heavily scumread, so is very close to being lynched. It's like making a Mason claim as scum.
I started to do a deep dive into mine and Osie's past I nteractions, both in response to their assertion that I shouldn't have a confident meta read, and to RE'a curiousity regarding my desire to vote there but the lack of one. After reviewing, I think it's less helpful and will summarize how I feel about it. Disdain is the word that comes to mind, like I'm that mildly noxious fart on the bus that hangs till your stop. My response to that is to emotionally want Osie to be scum. I want that vindication, I want to be able to say "Who's hanging out with ghost pandas now!" Logically, I'm not certain of Osie's alignment, and understanding my biases in their regard is partly holding me back from voting there.
Another aspect to withholding my vote, is that in a sense I'm holding some power over the game state, and sooner or later someone will start either pressuring me to vote or excoriate me for not voting. That could be a potential windfall of information for post flip analysis.
This sums up my statement regarding Voxx's lack of force this game (before I understood they were not well).
Something pinged me in Ara's 747 and 748, I keep reading it and can't put my finger on it, but something feels off there.
I'm in catch-up mode because of the amount of time I wasted reading old games and quick topics, so I'm sure this post is already outdated.
A sad note, I'm afraid I might have to drop my gimmick. It's becoming hard to come up with headings of decent quality and it's slowing my play pace from it's typical glacial to downright geological.
I don't know her alignment, but I was starting to think (and do more so now) that that was more likely to come from town. But it didn't matter. My post there should categorically not be read as anything other than NAI, since it was literally saying "If someone won't enjoy the game if I'm in it, then I'll leave the game." I'm never going to intentionally stay in a game at the cost of someone else's enjoyment. And that's why I said just "No." in response to you accusing me of cheating. (Thanks for that! /sarcasm) Because that post was me attempting to swap out. That's apparently not an option; the only option is finding replacement. But Scarlet made it clear that she doesn't prefer that step. So it's a moot point and we can move on.
By the way,
Unvote
Vote Ara
I'm still not convinced that Celeste is town, but I've moved her up to uncertain enough that I want to look elsewhere, and my vote is not doing much there anyways.
When Ara is talking to me, such as in our interactions on the past few pages, it sounds like she is certain that I'm town. When she's talking to Troba about me, she hedges her read a lot more. And she's been saying she's going to get engaged, but it still doesn't seem like she is.
I feel like Grape's frustration and tunnel in response to RE might be slightly townie, though I still feel like his posting quality is way subpar for his usual. I'd still be willing to lynch him, especially if that persists, but I think either Ara, Empoof, or possibly Celeste/Tubba are better lynches for the day.
I'm going to go read through some people again. See if anything stands out. Because usually I've found a more certain scumread or nagging tinfoil that turns out to be right by this point in the game. I have two bits of nagging tinfoil, but they require some more research and I'm probably not going to follow either until Day 2.
I'd like to see more responses to this post from Voxx.
I'm getting this weird mishmash of town pings and scum pings from different parts of this, and I think it might be hugely relevant. I agree with some of his reads and completely disagree on others. I guess my best way to describe how I feel about this post is that it feels... dangerous. Like, if Voxx is scum, this post is a multitool of fake, low content reads he can fiddle with (except for his read on Titus, which albeit could be a bus, but is marginally more likely to be unaligned. If Voxx is town, this post is a lighter-than-ideal outlook on the game that may or may not be useful, with a really notable read on Titus. I don't trust a bunch of his towncore, though, so I'm net slightly scumleaning this post in and of itself.
One issue you have is that he didn't write much: but that would be in the parameters of his condition. He was probably rushing so he didn't have to endure the pain. It's pretty NAI. He likely explained more on Titus because she was one of his biggest scumreads, and he had already explained Ara to a point so it fits. The headache was also likely why he skipped over Tammy (obvious) and Empoof (which I think he already explained). I think the only issue with that is that I want to know why despite lumping them together they were put on separate tiers. And still, it's a minor inconsistency likely caused by lack of care.
Tubba I think has been given a little too much credit for being a sheep read, but I think he must just trust his teammates. I'd like that to be updated though when given the chance. But that's pretty much my thoughts on this list.
osie, may I ask what pinged you about it, both the Town and scum parts? If you had to decide which of your explanations with what else Voxx has posted, would this be Townie or scummy or IDK?
Carl the invisible ghost panda just went out, bought a box of blueberry waffles, and ate them in your kitchen with some bell peppers, bay scallops, and a lot of salt. (And here I thought I wasn't going to get any use out of that joke again in a game with you. You brought this on yourself.)
Your bolding of words here feels overdramatized, and the phrase "I'm holding some power over the game state" is awful. That said...
Center yourself, Osie. You can do it.
...
Nah, gotta let it all out.
DO SOMETHING ALREADY!
There we go. That felt better.
Are you noticing what I'm noticing? I don't like how vague your comment on this is though.
There was no reason for you to have bought that reaction. You even accused her of using AtE. And I don't think it had anything to do with enjoyment, but that it would have been a blow to her confidence if she was wrong, or something. I think you've been reasonable this game. It would have been selfish for the other person to expect you (or anyone) to leave. That's something for the mod to decide.
Grapefruit21 - 4 (RE1031, Scarlet Rage, MarkoRaj, Trobairitz)
RE1031 - 1 (Grapefruit21)
Scarlet Rage - 1 (Arapocalypse)
Not Voting - 2 (Tubba Fett, ScarletCelestial)
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends at 14:30 Eastern Time on August 1st unless there is a majority lynch.
This is a friendly reminder that the deadline is in ~48.5 hours. I'll try to be around to do vote counts more frequently during the final 24 hours but don't expect them every hour or anything.
Grapefruit21 has been prodded.
Problems with this vote count? PM me or DM me on Discord for the fastest response. Posting something in-thread will probably get my attention eventually.
This vote wasn't counted because it lacks a space between the ":" and grapefruit's name. I guess. I thought those were optional, but, you live and learn. I will update the rules post linked in the OP to make the space requirement explicit. In the meantime, I've hand counted your vote and edited Vote Count 1.9 to reflect it.