Not statistics, vote analysis. It's too early to be hyper confident but a grape lynch and Ara lynch involved almost every slot. If Grape flips town, we can infer a high likelihood widely townread wolf, as wolves tend to be passive on sites favoring a plurality lynch.
This isn't really plurality though? Though I think I get your point - scum Day 1 would be more likely to try and look Townie as opposed to having push a wagon I think. What do you think of yesterday's Empoof wagon?
Are you referring to the EoD wagon or the midday wagon?
Plurality is sorta correct. Strict majority is not required.
Going to just talk about a few topics that I recall you poking about more than trying to hunt specific questions, if there's something you want me to elaborate on more, just let me know.
1) Empoof
I'm giving Ara (and her team) some weight on this read because of how well they know him. If it's her dying words to basically repeatedly scream 'never ever lynch Empoof' over and over, I think that deserves at least a pass for a few days personally, given Ara (and her team) would not be that insistent on a town read they were at all unsure on.
I do want to firm the read up on my own, but I just had a game end on DLP where I rolled wolf with Empoof (https://forums.darklordpotter.net/threads/the-100-mafia.37927/ is the game, if you want to take a look at both of our play, I'm Eidolonic there, and he's...Empoof, replacing Tsaiah) - I'm actually not completely sure on the timing of when he subbed in vs. when this game started, but I'm generally aware of his meta that he posts more as town, smoother as town, and has more depth/nuance to his posting as town. He's not a terrible wolf, but he's pretty one-dimensional in his posts with a bit of a visible agenda usually. He's relaxed here, and has had some volatility to his reads that I think he struggles to fake as a wolf. The way he handled Ara felt pretty natural to me, and like, the literal only thing that is giving me any pause is the ironclad town read he had on me for posts I don't think I'm incapable of faking, but I expect him to talk about that today, and it's entirely possible the read is based on the game I linked and knowing I was a wolf there, etc.
Basically every one of my wolf reads wants him dead, too, which is uh. A pretty big plus to me? I'm pretty sure all three of Titus, Grape and Osie have voted Empoof at some point, or at least are heavily scum reading him, but none of them really can articulate why he's scum in a way that makes me think that they actually believe he's a wolf - it's just 'something they can push'.
2) Ara
I think you're missing a few things regarding Ara, both from reasons I thought she was a wolf, and my own personal meta. If you look through my town games on MTGS, you'll see a recurring theme on D1 - that I tend to not move my vote much. I latch onto something I don't think can come from a villager, and lightly tunnel it all day. I don't tend to try and sway the game into lynching the target, per se, but I like to watch what happens to the game around me, how people react to my read, who joins me on it, who clearly /avoids/ joining me on it, who pushes opposing wagons, etc. I think Goldeneye is a recentish town game that you can view for comparison, I was Bloscovi in that game, and latched onto something in the early game much like I did here and tunneled one person all day, with vote not moving iirc.
One of the main reasons I really dug my teeth into Ara after coming back to thread a bit late in day is her saying her team wanted me dead. I know both of her teammates quite well, and I just did not believe that was a real conversation that happened between her and her team - that if she were a villager, Visor and Lissa would never, ever be recommending she push me on a D1 where I was obviously out of it due to medical issues. They know my strength as town, they know I get stronger as the games on, and it just did not feel like a real thought the team had together. Very much a 'appeal to authority' feel to it where she was referring to people that can't speak for themselves to try and get the push through.
You'll note that she uh... kind of implied at EoD that her team had backed off me being scum but that she personally still thought I could be, which is unfortunate that I couldn't be around most of the day because maybe we could have ironed that out given more time, but it is what it is. I was wrong, and feel a little bad about it, but not /that/ bad because I think I managed to solve the game in the process, looking at how people handled Ara, the wagon, and counterwagons, both mechanically and depth of interaction/conviction.
3) Marko
I liked his EoD because it felt very...disconnected? I normally view that as a negative but in this case it just feels super villagery to come in the way he did, and just be like 'what about Empoof?' I think he's wrong about the read, but it felt more like someone that's trying to genuinely figure out why Empoof isn't a wolf here instead of someone that's trying to push an agenda/generate a mislynch. It's hard to put into words, but it just...slots in really neatly to someone that A) has a fairly inactive team, and B) doesn't have a wolf team, just the sort of villagery disconnectedness/disengagement and doing his own thing in a way that doesn't advance a wolf win condition.
I also like his push/vote on Grapefruit earlier in the game, and sort of like him saying nothing I've done is villagery, in a weird kind of way. I know his teammates, and they both know me significantly better than Marko himself does, and if he randed wolf here, I feel like they'd probably have just given him instructions to either ignore me, or just town read me and move on, and just shoot me n1 or n2. It's kind of thin, but it felt like an independent, genuine thought, and that's a recurring theme for him. Pretty sure he's Just Town.
4) You (SC)
I actually have a significantly stronger town read on you than I did at the start of day, so that's a plus. You asked me like, how you came across in our talk, and I think the word for it is..hm. Not quite obnoxious, but persistently nit-picky. I was already planning at that point to do a large 'state of the game, figure out where I'm at' type post, that I refer to as a Voxx!post, and I'm relatively well known for them and that kind of PoE playstyle, where on D2/D3 once I have a flip or two and things to re-read, I work from top down and narrow down who scum can even be, and it has a reasonable history of accuracy.
I think that persistence/nitpicking/doggedness/whatever is pretty strongly indicative of a villager who is genuinely trying to get content/thoughts out of me, and I like it. I also liked the analysis you did on my reads and progression, and don't think a wolf puts my reasoning for voting Ara as the worst, and then doesn't actually use that as a leverage point to push on me, but instead comes out of the analysis with opposite conclusion. I don't think you know me, I don't think your team knows me, and there wouldn't be the implicit understanding 'don't poke the dragon' that I think would play into other players. I certainly didn't display anything of note on D1 through blinding headaches and inability to read the game, after all.
Most of my focus was on the you/Osie thing because I frankly didn't get much out of your D1 posts that felt alignment indicative otherwise. Maybe that's on me, maybe that's on feeling like the game was a blender of fuzzy words, maybe that's because I don't think you did all that much that was actually indicative of being a villager or wolf, especially given one of my teammates has informed me that you're more than capable of putting in work/walls/analysis as a wolf. There was also an element of 'I don't really want to think about either of them too much right now' where I put you and Osie off to the side to deal with later, after that interaction.
You're probably the most talked about topic in team chat since the start of D2, and while they've been kind of disappointingly 'yeah sure I guess' in response to me pulling up posts of yours and saying I think it makes you town, it's something I'm increasingly feeling better about because it actively feels like you're trying to figure out the gamestate rather than push what you've decided to believe.
5) Osie
Osie is not someone I think I can read all that well in a vaccuum. He has a uniqueness to his posts that I struggle with, because it's really hard for me to evaluate if I think thoughts are real or fake from him, because almost everything feels fake. And that's fundamentally how I find wolves - I don't care about the words people post, I don't really care that much about the actions people take, i care about how they think, and where those thoughts have to be coming from, and Osie isn't someone I can read well in that regard. It's why I decided to basically work from the top down and see where he ended up slotting in for me, after I talked about all the other players.
My ultimate conclusion is that I think everyone else is villagery enough that it makes him a pretty likely wolf.
This ties into Tammy a bit too, but part of the reason I think RE wasn't shot directly is that he was so set on You/Osie being w/w, that I think he would definitely have been left alive to push that narrative. I think Tammy was the most likely save given that because Tammy showing up dead just..doesn't mean anything for the gamestate. Universal town read, didn't really have any distinct pushes or people that would benefit for her being dead, etc.
But like. I went back and looked at the gross *****, and while I'm still 100% positive it wasn't w/w, I don't think it prevents Osie from being a W. I think it probably does prevent you from being a W, but I feel a lot better about giving that read now that I've gotten to you being town on reasons other than that, on a like..game integrity level.
It's kind of a mindset sort of deal that I had to deal with in 100 mafia that I linked up above, where people were town reading me or at least avoiding pushing on me due to OOG stuff, and my instinct was to make it super, super clear that it was strictly OOG and not to avoid pushing me due to it. I think as a villager your instincts are more along the line of 'I mean of course this interaction makes me a villager, I'm a villager, duh' where as a wolf you're more acutely aware of people town reading you for wrong reasons, and those reasons feeling sort of gross. A kind of "I don't want to win this way" sort of mindset.
I do appreciate Osie trying to move on from it, and I feel bad that I keep lingering there, but it's a pretty critical thing that happened in terms of both of your alignments and it's hard to just ignore. It's more of a 'why he /can/ still be a wolf' rather than a 'why he /is/ a wolf', if that distinction makes sense.
The more I think about it, the more him being a wolf just makes sense, realistically - like, there's just a lack of inquisitiveness or critical thought to his posts that probably indicates wolf more than villager - especially when you consider wolves are frankly kind of lacking in places to push this game, there's a lot of people being accurately town read, or that aren't feasible pushes for them, so your options are A) bus, or B) park/push somewhere and hope town piles on with you. I really, really dislike his Empoof push. I don't think that's a real read, I don't think it's a real progression or thought, it doesn't feel like he's trying to figure out Empoof's alignment, just kind of parking there for Something To Do.
But that's how I've felt about almost everyone that's voted for Empoof (except maybe Marko?) past RVS.
Osie also goes from voting Grapefruit, to then choosing to vote Ara over Grapefruit later in the day in a way that swung the momentum over. Couple that with the reaction he had to my reads post and I think Osie/Grape/x is a pretty reasonable scum team. I think x is probably Titus, but my team is warning me about getting overly tunneled on Titus because it's....Titus. I encourage you to go look at Osie's response to my reads post there. Think of it from this perspective - he doesn't know my alignment, because he's a villager. He is voting/pushing Empoof, and is his top scum. So like... he reads my post where I'm wolf reading him, and strongly town reading Empoof, and think about the way he's addressing me there.
It's hard to put into words, maybe appeasement a little bit? But it feels like he's talking to me like he knows I'm a villager who has very good reads, and just pings me super hard. The way he talks about Grape and Titus there is hard to reconcile with the way he's pushing Empoof and just doesn't super display to me someone that is actively thinking about the game, and how reads fit together.
Speaking of reacting to my reads though:
6) Titus
You didn't actually ask me about Titus I think, but gonna talk about them anyways.
Maybe it's a tunnel, maybe it's a reach, but I think Titus/Grape are w/w here. I feel it in my bones.
The way Titus is goading me into voting Grape, but then trying to tie me to Grape feels like someone that knows Grape's alignment and is trying to set up a push on a villager based on it. It's a pretty classic scum move of 'tie townies to my partner when I bus them/they're going down' and it just super does not feel like a real thought she has. I could buy someone thinking Grape and I are w/w based on fact that I never voted him d1, and had him as a 'I don't have a town read on him' shrug PoE at the time, but that's not the depth/thought displayed by Titus here.
I'm liking Voxx here. Osie's response was kinda hard to like ngl lmao
it was more of a "what?? you shouldn't have caught me???" vibe as opposed to like.. ...Actually trying to engage with my read? but we can lynch that later
Problems with this vote count? PM me or DM me on Discord for the fastest response. Posting something in-thread will probably get my attention eventually.
also just gonna say I'm prolly a tiny bit tunneled on Osie rn because the sheer attitude in that response is rubbing me the wrong way. that's not "town sass" or whatever. that's outright condescending and discrediting and I don't appreciate it regardless of alignment.
again, if I'm falling for lynchbait someone other than Osie please please throw me some town tells I'm meant to be looking for
Bahaha TW is fine, I respond to that or anything duck related too!
I'm in the kinda spot where I have so many varying levels of townread that it's kinda easy to focus on scum of only by PoE. apologies if I've been lacking so far!
I think you had a kinda weak start but I've really enjoyed your late d1 and early d2 posting. it feels considered and critical without being like too safe which I vibe in a big way. Tammy and Cel feel like super town fmpov. Titus had a decent start I think but has massively plumetted.
Is there anything in particular you wanna talk about? I'm usually kinda weak til I've had some real time interactions so I'll try and be around the place.
I wouldn't mind you elaborating more on your Grapefruit read either, as well as why you swapped off Osie for him. Like just kind of step-by-step walk me through the thought process there.
I really don't have strong feelings on Marko. I'll need to dive that slot again but it's just not standing out to me yet one way or the other.
Grape is p forced and doesn't come across as genuine at all. he like instantly pinged me for his weird withheld read gimmick at sod1 and I can't really see any town in his ISO or like anything that makes me want to read him strongly one way or the other.
I changed my vote becauae they're both scum and wagons are DIVINE. Why did you think I changed it?
Voxx I think you having just come from anni/100 you would play this game differently. Your first thing in this game was basically spearhead attack Ara. Your demeanor hasn’t felt like “**** my ass it’s my 3rd wolf rand in a row”. You’ve progressed well. I literally have no qualms with your play other than being wrong on Ara for things that even I was struggling with.
I’ll likely read over Ara’s deal with you later this week and see if there’s merit. But I’m not scared of you or your big bad wolf game.
Word on the street is that SC is townie and titus is kinda wolfy so should be fun.
Osie: scum have every reason to hard defend your slot if your town to look good and pocket you longer. Thread will likely get you eventually anyways unless you towntell super hard.
Serious question: can you tell me things that I’ve done that you would consider townie but not enough for you? What about my process is “unreadable” for you? I remember you had a post saying “I have no idea where you stand” when at the time I’m pretty sure my stances were few but obvious. We’ve been at odds for ~most the game. You’re saying “it’s just that easy” about my posts. What do you think other people are missing and writing me off as town for? What do you think about Ara’s read on me? RE’s? Tammy’s? Voxx’s? Torb/TheWorst? What makes you avoid those people for counsel? Where did I dupe them?
I’m having problems with your wolf read on me because I know my tone is good. I know I’ve shown thought process enough for other people to grasp what I’m thinking. I have been coasting and been out of thread but those are substantially weak reasons when I have posts that you have the ability to read in front of you, and things that I’m currently aware of that can be considered wolfy that you’re only touching with a light hand instead of making the forefront. Remember when I voted ScarletRage? Man that pinged you! Did it ping other people? Did you ask? What was their response? Is that normal for me? Do you even know?
Do you think I’ve purposefully ignored you? Do you think I’ve not been fair? I’ve listed very few reasons I’m scumreading you, is that not relevant?
What’s your plan of attack with my slot? Vote me and hope for the best?
Can you talk to me about my two big posts this day phase? The big reads post with peoples names colored back a few pages, and the post #1234 response to SC?
Basically, what do you disagree with in either of those?
My problem with the town read on me is like... I was literally the lowest poster on D1. I'm not sure that's ever been the case as either alignment, and I don't really think I did anything out of my wolf range until D2, which was well after you claimed the pretty ironclad town read. I was expecting you to be a little more hesitant at clearing me after Anni and 100, since I'm perfectly capable of playing well as a wolf, but I'm also really, really obviously town when town and I (and my team) didn't think I'd displayed that.
It's probably nothing, since I do think you're town for a variety of reasons, but people town reading me when even I don't think I've been all that villagery makes me squint.
I really don't have strong feelings on Marko. I'll need to dive that slot again but it's just not standing out to me yet one way or the other.
Grape is p forced and doesn't come across as genuine at all. he like instantly pinged me for his weird withheld read gimmick at sod1 and I can't really see any town in his ISO or like anything that makes me want to read him strongly one way or the other.
I changed my vote becauae they're both scum and wagons are DIVINE. Why did you think I changed it?
I guess I'm looking for something for you that like...show cases some kind of depth of thought that doesn't involve the first two pages of game or last two pages.
And I don't know why you changed it, hence asking you!
Like, you're saying you don't see anything that makes you want to read him strongly one way or the other, but that's enough for you to vote him over Osie, who you've spent almost every post talking about? I just don't really understand your progression.
Can you talk to me about my two big posts this day phase? The big reads post with peoples names colored back a few pages, and the post #1234 response to SC?
Basically, what do you disagree with in either of those?
Voxx, if you don't think I am obvtown well, I'm not convincing you. That's just not my skill set. So, I'll be more pragmatic instead. Let's suppose that I am scum, deliberately bussing my partner to lynch in order to frame you. You lynch him anyway. It's a free scumlynch. Then, you have it out with me later, when a scum has already flipped.
Voxx, if you don't think I am obvtown well, I'm not convincing you. That's just not my skill set. So, I'll be more pragmatic instead. Let's suppose that I am scum, deliberately bussing my partner to lynch in order to frame you. You lynch him anyway. It's a free scumlynch. Then, you have it out with me later, when a scum has already flipped.
I may still end up there, but it's still super early in D2, and not everyone has even checked in yet.
You're right, you aren't going to convince me by engaging with me directly, but I am perfectly capable of re-evaluating on a read, despite my Ara tunnel probably seeming contrary to that, heh.
I think my 3 strongest town reads currently are Tammy, Empoof, and SC - if you received mod confirmation that myself + those 3 were town, what would your take on the gamestate be?
That'd mean 3 wolves in:
Grapefruit
Osie
Tubba
Marko
The Worst
as, obviously, you won't include yourself.
I think it's probably You, Grape, and Osie, but if you are town here, you probably need to explain where I'm wrong on people that aren't you, for reasons that I can understand and work with. Read my big reads post, and my response to SC in #1234 - talk to me about both posts, just ignoring the read on you if necessary.
Sorry @Voxx I don't have a lot to offer you..... the bottom of my read list is literally just Osie < Grape. As I said lynching either of them would make me a happy duckie. It's gonna be excruciating phone posting a mad wall on what's made me think either/both of them are scum throughout the game and it's not like you disagree with my assessment so I'm not gonna do that.
I get the feeling you're mostly looking for more nuanced and interesting stances from my slot but I'm not the kinda dude who can throw those out during catchup mode. Right now it actually wouldn't surprise me if Titus wasn't scum with Grape but it's really far too soon to say. based on what I've read of her I just wouldn't expect her to offer an actual scumbuddy up on a silver platter. but I think Grape is scum long before Titus anyway so the fact I'm kinda like.... scumlean on Titus isn't really bugging me much
The d1 lynch was like a super generic lynch on a player who wasn't playing in the same style/lsvel whatever as the rest of the list who was then wagoned, cased using stuff that was largely not alignment indicative, shat themselves then went down.
This game isn't riveting enough that I'm actually having deep profound thoughts. I think we have ~2 really obvious scum, and besides that it's just been a game lmao.
Is there anything like specific you wanna jam about or should I just do my thing and see how the cards fall?
BTW badcase d1 was towny, more like reading it knowing the flip I'm kinda predisposed to finding it a little whatever. I probably would've voted her too.
Like I don't know what's happening in this game. I've barely read it. I was focused on RE because that read was my anchor. I don't know who scum is now, and I do know I will garner further scum reads for this post, but importantly I am sure I will find scum on my wagon.
Voxx, if you don't think I am obvtown well, I'm not convincing you. That's just not my skill set. So, I'll be more pragmatic instead. Let's suppose that I am scum, deliberately bussing my partner to lynch in order to frame you. You lynch him anyway. It's a free scumlynch. Then, you have it out with me later, when a scum has already flipped.
I may still end up there, but it's still super early in D2, and not everyone has even checked in yet.
You're right, you aren't going to convince me by engaging with me directly, but I am perfectly capable of re-evaluating on a read, despite my Ara tunnel probably seeming contrary to that, heh.
I think my 3 strongest town reads currently are Tammy, Empoof, and SC - if you received mod confirmation that myself + those 3 were town, what would your take on the gamestate be?
That'd mean 3 wolves in:
Grapefruit
Osie
Tubba
Marko
The Worst
as, obviously, you won't include yourself.
I think it's probably You, Grape, and Osie, but if you are town here, you probably need to explain where I'm wrong on people that aren't you, for reasons that I can understand and work with. Read my big reads post, and my response to SC in #1234 - talk to me about both posts, just ignoring the read on you if necessary.
I would take Grape, Tubba, Marko from that list. I hard townread Osie. I have no reason to SR worst. Tubba still has the very limited votes. Marko has been underwhelming.
Right now, Scarlet/Voxx/Grape looks like a good team. It also makes Voxx's post fit nicely into the rule of 3.
lol
This is hilarious.
I may have been wrong about everything yesterday (sorry RE) but that doesn't mean this makes any sense.
@Voxx so your read on me is that I was tunneling on RE and that makes me scum?
You're just going to shade other people's reads on you and not do anything else toDay? Uggh. Either you hate your role this game or you just are phoning it in. I don't think I've ever seen this apathetic, lurking, generally underwhelming play from you, Grape. This is new, and depressing. And I'm inclined to just agree with the thread and say that it makes you scum.
Like I don't know what's happening in this game. I've barely read it. I was focused on RE because that read was my anchor. I don't know who scum is now, and I do know I will garner further scum reads for this post, but importantly I am sure I will find scum on my wagon.
If you don't know what's happening, then read the game! Come on, you know better than that! This is worse than the worst coming in, skimming one person, and deciding they're scum. You were grasping for any piece of ***** that you could throw at RE, and now you're just throwing ***** and doing nothing. That's lame. And there's no way you're town with your play this game. I think it's far beyond time for us to put you out of your misery, scum.
Voxx's 1234. This turns into a bit of a rant but eh. Pretty certain Voxx is Town.
Empoof
Now it makes much more sense - thanks. I'm in a similar place for scumreads right now (spoiler: despite trying to be a bit more optimistic of osie my read has not changed after looking at his ISO in depth). (At osie/Grape/one of {Voxx, Tubba, Titus, Empoof}).
My issue with your read prior was mainly due to sheeping Ara: but seeing as their team knows them and you've obviously been trying to compare his behaviour here to what you think is scummy from him (my doubt on him coming from Marko who also knows him well).
Ara/Marko
I don't think you stated that reasoning before - but I think it's very well thought through, as it was with the Empoof read. Both I feel come from different angles to other people, and it's so in-depth I don't think it would come from scum. (Going to go and look at that game you linked though just to make sure you're not as good as Fable or something though.)
Scarlet
I just really like this post full stop. Since this'd just end up a repeat of what I said before otherwise:
my team has also been not as helpful as I would like to be fair. One teammate didn't read the game (and yet said RE was Town the entire time) and the other just went osie = scum without ever explaining why. (To be fair I trust the read.)
Also, I laughed at the wall thing because what I did in Mountainous was make walls that had only commentary. I had a bit of an ISO life at the time (would copy paste something but MAL is still down T.T). I think just by your team I know who that comes from so I think I understand the paranoia?
The focus on the interaction alone makes sense in that context, and leaving it at that for Day 1 instead of expanding on it makes me just feel like it comes from Town. For scum to be pleasing, they'd probably add a bit more to it.
osie
I've pretty much ended up in the same place as you here. I've only had a few games with osie, but this could be his scum game easily. It's fair that he's saying that conversation with me was NAI: we had to seriously talk about the argument we had in post and they shared similar sentiment there. (It was their scum game)
Like, I've only got a few pages into the ISO, but it feels like he's not trying to converse with the people he's scumreading. He's just commenting and the people he scumreads have to come to him to refute it. It feels like he's certain it's the path he has to take and it's weird.
Titus
I think there's likely two people from the Ara wagon in the scumteam, and one off it. From that, if Grape is Town then I am probably still right about osie, they're just scum with Empoof (him being off wagon) and Titus.
With how it is now, it's either Titus or Tubba in my mind. (My chat with you has definitely put you up to a Townier level.) I'm just not sure with this.
Titus I feel was in her element when I talked to them and I feel like their logic works for them. Them not answering the bussing question points to being less pleasing than Ara may have thought. But I get a sense of wrongness from what she has decided to use, and there's a minor misrepresentation issue.
Tubba's game here is different from any other I have looked at. It represents neither game of his. Although I liked certain pinpoints of what he has done, there's too little for me to read him well I find.
Right now I'm liking Titus > Tubba as Town but it's not too much of a difference.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
@Voxx, I just feel Empoof is defending my scumreads in a way he cannot articulate. I don't see forward progress from him. He's the main one voting Grape with me, so I should have warmer feelings. Second, Ara's reads were horsepucky. She got deadline lynched bc people would not get onto scum.
You're using a lot of words in 1234 but reaching strained conclusions. Like Osie wolf by PoE. That just doesn't fly.
First, it implies you have a townread on Tubba or completely ignored him. Tubba's sole vote yesterday was choosingto save Grape over Ara. To clear that over Osie does not make sense. It was Tubba's vote that changed the momentum, not Osie's.
Second, MarkoRaj usually has a greater influence on the game on MU.
Right now, Scarlet/Voxx/Grape looks like a good team. It also makes Voxx's post fit nicely into the rule of 3.
lol
This is hilarious.
I may have been wrong about everything yesterday (sorry RE) but that doesn't mean this makes any sense.
@Voxx so your read on me is that I was tunneling on RE and that makes me scum?
You're just going to shade other people's reads on you and not do anything else toDay? Uggh. Either you hate your role this game or you just are phoning it in. I don't think I've ever seen this apathetic, lurking, generally underwhelming play from you, Grape. This is new, and depressing. And I'm inclined to just agree with the thread and say that it makes you scum.
Like I don't know what's happening in this game. I've barely read it. I was focused on RE because that read was my anchor. I don't know who scum is now, and I do know I will garner further scum reads for this post, but importantly I am sure I will find scum on my wagon.
If you don't know what's happening, then read the game! Come on, you know better than that! This is worse than the worst coming in, skimming one person, and deciding they're scum. You were grasping for any piece of ***** that you could throw at RE, and now you're just throwing ***** and doing nothing. That's lame. And there's no way you're town with your play this game. I think it's far beyond time for us to put you out of your misery, scum.
Vote: Grapefruit
I dunno what to make of this, but this feels tonally different than your earlier posting.
Right now, Scarlet/Voxx/Grape looks like a good team. It also makes Voxx's post fit nicely into the rule of 3.
lol
This is hilarious.
I may have been wrong about everything yesterday (sorry RE) but that doesn't mean this makes any sense.
@Voxx so your read on me is that I was tunneling on RE and that makes me scum?
You're just going to shade other people's reads on you and not do anything else toDay? Uggh. Either you hate your role this game or you just are phoning it in. I don't think I've ever seen this apathetic, lurking, generally underwhelming play from you, Grape. This is new, and depressing. And I'm inclined to just agree with the thread and say that it makes you scum.
Like I don't know what's happening in this game. I've barely read it. I was focused on RE because that read was my anchor. I don't know who scum is now, and I do know I will garner further scum reads for this post, but importantly I am sure I will find scum on my wagon.
If you don't know what's happening, then read the game! Come on, you know better than that! This is worse than the worst coming in, skimming one person, and deciding they're scum. You were grasping for any piece of ***** that you could throw at RE, and now you're just throwing ***** and doing nothing. That's lame. And there's no way you're town with your play this game. I think it's far beyond time for us to put you out of your misery, scum.
Vote: Grapefruit
I dunno what to make of this, but this feels tonally different than your earlier posting.
I agree with this. It feels much more angry than usual, but still has this hint of fakeness about it.
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
Right now, Scarlet/Voxx/Grape looks like a good team. It also makes Voxx's post fit nicely into the rule of 3.
lol
This is hilarious.
I may have been wrong about everything yesterday (sorry RE) but that doesn't mean this makes any sense.
@Voxx so your read on me is that I was tunneling on RE and that makes me scum?
You're just going to shade other people's reads on you and not do anything else toDay? Uggh. Either you hate your role this game or you just are phoning it in. I don't think I've ever seen this apathetic, lurking, generally underwhelming play from you, Grape. This is new, and depressing. And I'm inclined to just agree with the thread and say that it makes you scum.
Like I don't know what's happening in this game. I've barely read it. I was focused on RE because that read was my anchor. I don't know who scum is now, and I do know I will garner further scum reads for this post, but importantly I am sure I will find scum on my wagon.
If you don't know what's happening, then read the game! Come on, you know better than that! This is worse than the worst coming in, skimming one person, and deciding they're scum. You were grasping for any piece of ***** that you could throw at RE, and now you're just throwing ***** and doing nothing. That's lame. And there's no way you're town with your play this game. I think it's far beyond time for us to put you out of your misery, scum.
Vote: Grapefruit
I dunno what to make of this, but this feels tonally different than your earlier posting.
I agree with this. It feels much more angry than usual, but still has this hint of fakeness about it.
It reminds me of Ara's posting. Ara uses far too many exclamations to where he looks fake. This has a similar feel, so all I can say is fake.
Okay, so now that I really have time to come back to things…
Ara and RE were town. That makes me doubt the rest of my reads too. But let's see.
Celeste - Game-solvey town, mostly looking at recent posts, but I think her energy in this game especially as of late is more likely to be real than not. I didn't like her early game, but as things went on, she shifted from just asking superficial questions to her "Encyclopedias" which seem categorically Townie outside of some degree of very short comments in parts. Overall, I'm at a Townlean.
Empoof - After rereading a bunch of Empoof's posts, I feel like the only way to read him for my sanity is to sieve out the posts where he actually says important things about other players. Those did get more prevalent later on, though. While I saw it as wishy-washy during Day 1, I think I don't see anything so subtle as his thoughts on Titus, or even thoughts on Grape, from scum. The fact that those are maintained as reads, though. Like, does he think he just solved the game Day 1? I'm starting to think that the vast majority of his issues with me are playstyle and personality. And besides, and I was refusing to think about this earlier because I was upset about things, why the hell does he try in #595 to make me play better and be more active in response to my unhappy lash-out if he's scum? Yeah, okay. My read was just wrong here; I was too colored by irritation at his playstyle and linking him with Ara. What I feel is missing at this point is talking about Trobaslot and expanding on his current read on me (he only talked about his read on me in any serious detail in two posts mid-to-early Day 1), but I think I'm okay to put him at a Townlean for now, given that I do think I was letting personal biases (and a degree of frustration due to what seems like an almost callous sort of misread/scumpush from both him and Voxx) greatly affect my read here.
Tammy started out super townie, dipped a bit for me, and has kinda stayed mostly stable at a light townread for me. When she's here, she's fantastic. When she's not here, or at least not really here, it's a bit more concerning, but it still feels like she's making an effort. I don't think I'm ever lynching Tammy this game outside of a LYLO situation, and I'm guessing that RE figured the same and bodyguarded her or scum was that set on pushing for mislynches off of RE's death. Townread.
Titus has openly stated that they have a different style. I kinda see that here, but I'm also kinda seeing someone who is trigger-happy, but backs off from confrontation sometimes. They also only cased one person all day yesterday, Celeste. Titus's game reading style of VCA honestly makes my eyes glaze over, but even putting that to the side, they don't seem to be actively trying to contribute. I was kinda a comfortable townlean, but there's some good points that were made recently, especially by Empoof, about Titus's potential motivations. Okay, down for a Scumread on Titus.
Voxx seems to be trying to take charge. Voxx, of all people. Okay. I think Voxx has been showing himself as very certain about the entire gamestate when he's been showing any thoughts on it at all. And that feels like a jarring disconnect. Like I try to solve the game in my games, but I only feel that confidence if I'm active enough to really have an idea of everything going on. I don't feel that this game, and Voxx has been even less active than I have. Maybe it's just down to experience, but I don't get it; he just doesn't seem to have been here, so where the heck is his confidence coming from? Besides, for him to go "I think Osie's an easy mislynch" and then turn around and read me not based on actual thoughts on my posts, but on PoE? Is this for real? This seems so lazy. And a bunch of his reads posts are only really talking about a few people, and then placing the rest without discussion. I guess he's catching up and trying to read things. But I really don't like his lack of commentary at several places. When he's talking to people he's sometimes a bit better, so I'm not at a definite read, but I feel okay with a Scumlean.
Marko is not someone I know well enough to be comfortable with the judgment reads that several people have here. But I can understand the reasoning for why people are townreading him… I think his thoughts are real enough even if they aren't as developed as they could be. I want to see more before considering a lynch here. Townlean.
Troba I had some playstyle issues with early on. Then she just… petered out. And she was always overtly focused on individual comments. She did one post about gamestate closer to the end of the day with short comments on each person. But it's so waffly and short… I don't know. Then I look at Worst and I see… Tunnel on me and not much else. And it's primarily based off of my first post? And semantics about wording? What's going on here? Then we have "The questions they're asking don't feel like they're advancing the game" which sounds like a specific echo of concerns on my post to Ara. And then they vote Grapefruit without commentary for quite a while, just sheeping a consensus read. And still shading me. My response was condescending? That's quite the dismissal of someone asking you to contribute more to the game and provide a better read. Yeah, I'm pretty solidly a Scumread here.
Grape kept on pushing RE for lousy reasoning. It was like he always was just looking for an angle. And he's been faffing about doing pretty much nothing else this entire game. There's no way in hell that this is town!Grape. It's just too over the top scummy. Scumread
Tubba concerns me. Like, I want to read his progressions as town. They look good. But he's been lurky at best and his reads seem to be significantly based on activity. I'm don't see myself putting him any higher than neutral, and I think the best place is a slight Scumlean until he does something to wow me again.
That puts me at:
Conftown
Osieorb18
Ara
RE
Townread
Tammy
Townlean
Celeste
Empoof
Marko
Neutral
Scumlean
Tubba
Voxx
Scumread
Grape
Titus
Trobaslot
I don't think I'm likely to be exactly right on the scumteam this game because of general lack of focus, but this is something.
I'm going to try a new analysis method out later today, so we'll see how that turns out.
it feels like he's not trying to converse with the people he's scumreading. He's just commenting and the people he scumreads have to come to him to refute it
What the hell are you talking about? I've asked pretty much all of my scumreads previous to talk more about the gamestate and their thoughts, you included. I've called out my scumreads for their actions and tried to pull them to do better so I can have a more definite read on them. And I've gotten very little out of them, with the exceptions of you and Empoof, who I'm now reading as town. So I'm asking the worst and Grapefruit to actually play the damn game and talk about their reads in more detail than "I think this person is scum because I just do" for worst and "I don't know what to think any more" for Grape.
I guess you can say I haven't pushed my most recent distinct scumread of Titus as much yet... But that's dumb; I literally just posted that read... I literally just decided on that read maybe an hour ago. What kind of a game are you reading, Celeste?
I find it really telling that Voxx and worst both decided to be judge and jury in absentia for me... Like, Worst hasn't even read the game, and Voxx went from "Osie's an easy mislynch so I'm not sure" to "I guess he's scum, guys, because I'm super certain about all of my townreads" in the span of what? 10 posts in game? A few hours?
Besides, this game seems to have turned into "Sheep the Lurker." Why aren't any of the people other than Celeste who have been active in this game forming their own reads? What kind of a joke is this?
I find it really telling that Voxx and worst both decided to be judge and jury in absentia for me... Like, Worst hasn't even read the game, and Voxx went from "Osie's an easy mislynch so I'm not sure" to "I guess he's scum, guys, because I'm super certain about all of my townreads" in the span of what? 10 posts in game? A few hours?
Besides, this game seems to have turned into "Sheep the Lurker." Why aren't any of the people other than Celeste who have been active in this game forming their own reads? What kind of a joke is this?
Osie, why are you acting as if I am not existing? The wagon is on Grape. Your implosions are not helping. Forget the people who are coming after you. Find scum. They'll reveal themselves as scum, reveal you as scum or the t v t will end. Flailing about judge and jury is just ******* annoying. I defend people for a living and such histrionics are really annoying.
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Are you referring to the EoD wagon or the midday wagon?
Plurality is sorta correct. Strict majority is not required.
In most cases it would become an actual majority - as long as at least (# of players - 2) or more are voting.
@Scarlet Rage You said that Empoof never voted Grape... did you get him mixed up with someone else or was there some other issue?
Also lol Vox. (I wasn't actually around then, I just posted 1229 and left to watch Lupin Part 2 since I didn't think anyone was around...)
And I don't see any answers...
(PS: got recruited by a hedgehog will not be as around as I was today for 1-4 days. Should maintain some level of posting hopefully.)
Going to just talk about a few topics that I recall you poking about more than trying to hunt specific questions, if there's something you want me to elaborate on more, just let me know.
1) Empoof
I'm giving Ara (and her team) some weight on this read because of how well they know him. If it's her dying words to basically repeatedly scream 'never ever lynch Empoof' over and over, I think that deserves at least a pass for a few days personally, given Ara (and her team) would not be that insistent on a town read they were at all unsure on.
I do want to firm the read up on my own, but I just had a game end on DLP where I rolled wolf with Empoof (https://forums.darklordpotter.net/threads/the-100-mafia.37927/ is the game, if you want to take a look at both of our play, I'm Eidolonic there, and he's...Empoof, replacing Tsaiah) - I'm actually not completely sure on the timing of when he subbed in vs. when this game started, but I'm generally aware of his meta that he posts more as town, smoother as town, and has more depth/nuance to his posting as town. He's not a terrible wolf, but he's pretty one-dimensional in his posts with a bit of a visible agenda usually. He's relaxed here, and has had some volatility to his reads that I think he struggles to fake as a wolf. The way he handled Ara felt pretty natural to me, and like, the literal only thing that is giving me any pause is the ironclad town read he had on me for posts I don't think I'm incapable of faking, but I expect him to talk about that today, and it's entirely possible the read is based on the game I linked and knowing I was a wolf there, etc.
Basically every one of my wolf reads wants him dead, too, which is uh. A pretty big plus to me? I'm pretty sure all three of Titus, Grape and Osie have voted Empoof at some point, or at least are heavily scum reading him, but none of them really can articulate why he's scum in a way that makes me think that they actually believe he's a wolf - it's just 'something they can push'.
2) Ara
I think you're missing a few things regarding Ara, both from reasons I thought she was a wolf, and my own personal meta. If you look through my town games on MTGS, you'll see a recurring theme on D1 - that I tend to not move my vote much. I latch onto something I don't think can come from a villager, and lightly tunnel it all day. I don't tend to try and sway the game into lynching the target, per se, but I like to watch what happens to the game around me, how people react to my read, who joins me on it, who clearly /avoids/ joining me on it, who pushes opposing wagons, etc. I think Goldeneye is a recentish town game that you can view for comparison, I was Bloscovi in that game, and latched onto something in the early game much like I did here and tunneled one person all day, with vote not moving iirc.
One of the main reasons I really dug my teeth into Ara after coming back to thread a bit late in day is her saying her team wanted me dead. I know both of her teammates quite well, and I just did not believe that was a real conversation that happened between her and her team - that if she were a villager, Visor and Lissa would never, ever be recommending she push me on a D1 where I was obviously out of it due to medical issues. They know my strength as town, they know I get stronger as the games on, and it just did not feel like a real thought the team had together. Very much a 'appeal to authority' feel to it where she was referring to people that can't speak for themselves to try and get the push through.
You'll note that she uh... kind of implied at EoD that her team had backed off me being scum but that she personally still thought I could be, which is unfortunate that I couldn't be around most of the day because maybe we could have ironed that out given more time, but it is what it is. I was wrong, and feel a little bad about it, but not /that/ bad because I think I managed to solve the game in the process, looking at how people handled Ara, the wagon, and counterwagons, both mechanically and depth of interaction/conviction.
3) Marko
I liked his EoD because it felt very...disconnected? I normally view that as a negative but in this case it just feels super villagery to come in the way he did, and just be like 'what about Empoof?' I think he's wrong about the read, but it felt more like someone that's trying to genuinely figure out why Empoof isn't a wolf here instead of someone that's trying to push an agenda/generate a mislynch. It's hard to put into words, but it just...slots in really neatly to someone that A) has a fairly inactive team, and B) doesn't have a wolf team, just the sort of villagery disconnectedness/disengagement and doing his own thing in a way that doesn't advance a wolf win condition.
I also like his push/vote on Grapefruit earlier in the game, and sort of like him saying nothing I've done is villagery, in a weird kind of way. I know his teammates, and they both know me significantly better than Marko himself does, and if he randed wolf here, I feel like they'd probably have just given him instructions to either ignore me, or just town read me and move on, and just shoot me n1 or n2. It's kind of thin, but it felt like an independent, genuine thought, and that's a recurring theme for him. Pretty sure he's Just Town.
4) You (SC)
I actually have a significantly stronger town read on you than I did at the start of day, so that's a plus. You asked me like, how you came across in our talk, and I think the word for it is..hm. Not quite obnoxious, but persistently nit-picky. I was already planning at that point to do a large 'state of the game, figure out where I'm at' type post, that I refer to as a Voxx!post, and I'm relatively well known for them and that kind of PoE playstyle, where on D2/D3 once I have a flip or two and things to re-read, I work from top down and narrow down who scum can even be, and it has a reasonable history of accuracy.
I think that persistence/nitpicking/doggedness/whatever is pretty strongly indicative of a villager who is genuinely trying to get content/thoughts out of me, and I like it. I also liked the analysis you did on my reads and progression, and don't think a wolf puts my reasoning for voting Ara as the worst, and then doesn't actually use that as a leverage point to push on me, but instead comes out of the analysis with opposite conclusion. I don't think you know me, I don't think your team knows me, and there wouldn't be the implicit understanding 'don't poke the dragon' that I think would play into other players. I certainly didn't display anything of note on D1 through blinding headaches and inability to read the game, after all.
Most of my focus was on the you/Osie thing because I frankly didn't get much out of your D1 posts that felt alignment indicative otherwise. Maybe that's on me, maybe that's on feeling like the game was a blender of fuzzy words, maybe that's because I don't think you did all that much that was actually indicative of being a villager or wolf, especially given one of my teammates has informed me that you're more than capable of putting in work/walls/analysis as a wolf. There was also an element of 'I don't really want to think about either of them too much right now' where I put you and Osie off to the side to deal with later, after that interaction.
You're probably the most talked about topic in team chat since the start of D2, and while they've been kind of disappointingly 'yeah sure I guess' in response to me pulling up posts of yours and saying I think it makes you town, it's something I'm increasingly feeling better about because it actively feels like you're trying to figure out the gamestate rather than push what you've decided to believe.
5) Osie
Osie is not someone I think I can read all that well in a vaccuum. He has a uniqueness to his posts that I struggle with, because it's really hard for me to evaluate if I think thoughts are real or fake from him, because almost everything feels fake. And that's fundamentally how I find wolves - I don't care about the words people post, I don't really care that much about the actions people take, i care about how they think, and where those thoughts have to be coming from, and Osie isn't someone I can read well in that regard. It's why I decided to basically work from the top down and see where he ended up slotting in for me, after I talked about all the other players.
My ultimate conclusion is that I think everyone else is villagery enough that it makes him a pretty likely wolf.
This ties into Tammy a bit too, but part of the reason I think RE wasn't shot directly is that he was so set on You/Osie being w/w, that I think he would definitely have been left alive to push that narrative. I think Tammy was the most likely save given that because Tammy showing up dead just..doesn't mean anything for the gamestate. Universal town read, didn't really have any distinct pushes or people that would benefit for her being dead, etc.
But like. I went back and looked at the gross *****, and while I'm still 100% positive it wasn't w/w, I don't think it prevents Osie from being a W. I think it probably does prevent you from being a W, but I feel a lot better about giving that read now that I've gotten to you being town on reasons other than that, on a like..game integrity level.
It's kind of a mindset sort of deal that I had to deal with in 100 mafia that I linked up above, where people were town reading me or at least avoiding pushing on me due to OOG stuff, and my instinct was to make it super, super clear that it was strictly OOG and not to avoid pushing me due to it. I think as a villager your instincts are more along the line of 'I mean of course this interaction makes me a villager, I'm a villager, duh' where as a wolf you're more acutely aware of people town reading you for wrong reasons, and those reasons feeling sort of gross. A kind of "I don't want to win this way" sort of mindset.
I do appreciate Osie trying to move on from it, and I feel bad that I keep lingering there, but it's a pretty critical thing that happened in terms of both of your alignments and it's hard to just ignore. It's more of a 'why he /can/ still be a wolf' rather than a 'why he /is/ a wolf', if that distinction makes sense.
The more I think about it, the more him being a wolf just makes sense, realistically - like, there's just a lack of inquisitiveness or critical thought to his posts that probably indicates wolf more than villager - especially when you consider wolves are frankly kind of lacking in places to push this game, there's a lot of people being accurately town read, or that aren't feasible pushes for them, so your options are A) bus, or B) park/push somewhere and hope town piles on with you. I really, really dislike his Empoof push. I don't think that's a real read, I don't think it's a real progression or thought, it doesn't feel like he's trying to figure out Empoof's alignment, just kind of parking there for Something To Do.
But that's how I've felt about almost everyone that's voted for Empoof (except maybe Marko?) past RVS.
Osie also goes from voting Grapefruit, to then choosing to vote Ara over Grapefruit later in the day in a way that swung the momentum over. Couple that with the reaction he had to my reads post and I think Osie/Grape/x is a pretty reasonable scum team. I think x is probably Titus, but my team is warning me about getting overly tunneled on Titus because it's....Titus. I encourage you to go look at Osie's response to my reads post there. Think of it from this perspective - he doesn't know my alignment, because he's a villager. He is voting/pushing Empoof, and is his top scum. So like... he reads my post where I'm wolf reading him, and strongly town reading Empoof, and think about the way he's addressing me there.
It's hard to put into words, maybe appeasement a little bit? But it feels like he's talking to me like he knows I'm a villager who has very good reads, and just pings me super hard. The way he talks about Grape and Titus there is hard to reconcile with the way he's pushing Empoof and just doesn't super display to me someone that is actively thinking about the game, and how reads fit together.
Speaking of reacting to my reads though:
6) Titus
You didn't actually ask me about Titus I think, but gonna talk about them anyways.
Maybe it's a tunnel, maybe it's a reach, but I think Titus/Grape are w/w here. I feel it in my bones.
The way Titus is goading me into voting Grape, but then trying to tie me to Grape feels like someone that knows Grape's alignment and is trying to set up a push on a villager based on it. It's a pretty classic scum move of 'tie townies to my partner when I bus them/they're going down' and it just super does not feel like a real thought she has. I could buy someone thinking Grape and I are w/w based on fact that I never voted him d1, and had him as a 'I don't have a town read on him' shrug PoE at the time, but that's not the depth/thought displayed by Titus here.
it was more of a "what?? you shouldn't have caught me???" vibe as opposed to like.. ...Actually trying to engage with my read? but we can lynch that later
vote: Grapefruit21
Scarlet Rage - 1 (Voxxicus)
Foopme - 1 (osieorb18)
Not Voting - 6 (Tammy, Tubba Fett, Grapefruit21, ScarletCelestial, Foopme, MarkoRaj)
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to majority lynch.
Day 2 ends at 6:00 PM Eastern Time on August 18th unless there is a majority lynch.
Problems with this vote count? PM me or DM me on Discord for the fastest response. Posting something in-thread will probably get my attention eventually.
again, if I'm falling for lynchbait someone other than Osie please please throw me some town tells I'm meant to be looking for
Are you fully 100% caught up? Could you dump some thoughts/reads on players that aren't Osie or Grapefruit?
I'm in the kinda spot where I have so many varying levels of townread that it's kinda easy to focus on scum of only by PoE. apologies if I've been lacking so far!
I think you had a kinda weak start but I've really enjoyed your late d1 and early d2 posting. it feels considered and critical without being like too safe which I vibe in a big way. Tammy and Cel feel like super town fmpov. Titus had a decent start I think but has massively plumetted.
Is there anything in particular you wanna talk about? I'm usually kinda weak til I've had some real time interactions so I'll try and be around the place.
I wouldn't mind you elaborating more on your Grapefruit read either, as well as why you swapped off Osie for him. Like just kind of step-by-step walk me through the thought process there.
Grape is p forced and doesn't come across as genuine at all. he like instantly pinged me for his weird withheld read gimmick at sod1 and I can't really see any town in his ISO or like anything that makes me want to read him strongly one way or the other.
I changed my vote becauae they're both scum and wagons are DIVINE. Why did you think I changed it?
Voxx I think you having just come from anni/100 you would play this game differently. Your first thing in this game was basically spearhead attack Ara. Your demeanor hasn’t felt like “**** my ass it’s my 3rd wolf rand in a row”. You’ve progressed well. I literally have no qualms with your play other than being wrong on Ara for things that even I was struggling with.
I’ll likely read over Ara’s deal with you later this week and see if there’s merit. But I’m not scared of you or your big bad wolf game.
Word on the street is that SC is townie and titus is kinda wolfy so should be fun.
Osie: scum have every reason to hard defend your slot if your town to look good and pocket you longer. Thread will likely get you eventually anyways unless you towntell super hard.
Serious question: can you tell me things that I’ve done that you would consider townie but not enough for you? What about my process is “unreadable” for you? I remember you had a post saying “I have no idea where you stand” when at the time I’m pretty sure my stances were few but obvious. We’ve been at odds for ~most the game. You’re saying “it’s just that easy” about my posts. What do you think other people are missing and writing me off as town for? What do you think about Ara’s read on me? RE’s? Tammy’s? Voxx’s? Torb/TheWorst? What makes you avoid those people for counsel? Where did I dupe them?
I’m having problems with your wolf read on me because I know my tone is good. I know I’ve shown thought process enough for other people to grasp what I’m thinking. I have been coasting and been out of thread but those are substantially weak reasons when I have posts that you have the ability to read in front of you, and things that I’m currently aware of that can be considered wolfy that you’re only touching with a light hand instead of making the forefront. Remember when I voted ScarletRage? Man that pinged you! Did it ping other people? Did you ask? What was their response? Is that normal for me? Do you even know?
Do you think I’ve purposefully ignored you? Do you think I’ve not been fair? I’ve listed very few reasons I’m scumreading you, is that not relevant?
What’s your plan of attack with my slot? Vote me and hope for the best?
Can you talk to me about my two big posts this day phase? The big reads post with peoples names colored back a few pages, and the post #1234 response to SC?
Basically, what do you disagree with in either of those?
It's probably nothing, since I do think you're town for a variety of reasons, but people town reading me when even I don't think I've been all that villagery makes me squint.
I guess I'm looking for something for you that like...show cases some kind of depth of thought that doesn't involve the first two pages of game or last two pages.
And I don't know why you changed it, hence asking you!
Like, you're saying you don't see anything that makes you want to read him strongly one way or the other, but that's enough for you to vote him over Osie, who you've spent almost every post talking about? I just don't really understand your progression.
Quite possibly. I normally like d3 and heavily gathered wagons before diving in. If a vote is absent from the VCs, I will also likely miss it.
I may still end up there, but it's still super early in D2, and not everyone has even checked in yet.
You're right, you aren't going to convince me by engaging with me directly, but I am perfectly capable of re-evaluating on a read, despite my Ara tunnel probably seeming contrary to that, heh.
I think my 3 strongest town reads currently are Tammy, Empoof, and SC - if you received mod confirmation that myself + those 3 were town, what would your take on the gamestate be?
That'd mean 3 wolves in:
Grapefruit
Osie
Tubba
Marko
The Worst
as, obviously, you won't include yourself.
I think it's probably You, Grape, and Osie, but if you are town here, you probably need to explain where I'm wrong on people that aren't you, for reasons that I can understand and work with. Read my big reads post, and my response to SC in #1234 - talk to me about both posts, just ignoring the read on you if necessary.
I kind of miss that, compared to constantly f5'ing and wishing people were around and posting.
I get the feeling you're mostly looking for more nuanced and interesting stances from my slot but I'm not the kinda dude who can throw those out during catchup mode. Right now it actually wouldn't surprise me if Titus wasn't scum with Grape but it's really far too soon to say. based on what I've read of her I just wouldn't expect her to offer an actual scumbuddy up on a silver platter. but I think Grape is scum long before Titus anyway so the fact I'm kinda like.... scumlean on Titus isn't really bugging me much
The d1 lynch was like a super generic lynch on a player who wasn't playing in the same style/lsvel whatever as the rest of the list who was then wagoned, cased using stuff that was largely not alignment indicative, shat themselves then went down.
This game isn't riveting enough that I'm actually having deep profound thoughts. I think we have ~2 really obvious scum, and besides that it's just been a game lmao.
Is there anything like specific you wanna jam about or should I just do my thing and see how the cards fall?
lol
This is hilarious.
I may have been wrong about everything yesterday (sorry RE) but that doesn't mean this makes any sense.
@Voxx so your read on me is that I was tunneling on RE and that makes me scum?
I would take Grape, Tubba, Marko from that list. I hard townread Osie. I have no reason to SR worst. Tubba still has the very limited votes. Marko has been underwhelming.
I’m napping on my commute, will hit you up later tonight voxx
You're just going to shade other people's reads on you and not do anything else toDay? Uggh. Either you hate your role this game or you just are phoning it in. I don't think I've ever seen this apathetic, lurking, generally underwhelming play from you, Grape. This is new, and depressing. And I'm inclined to just agree with the thread and say that it makes you scum.
If you don't know what's happening, then read the game! Come on, you know better than that! This is worse than the worst coming in, skimming one person, and deciding they're scum. You were grasping for any piece of ***** that you could throw at RE, and now you're just throwing ***** and doing nothing. That's lame. And there's no way you're town with your play this game. I think it's far beyond time for us to put you out of your misery, scum.
Vote: Grapefruit
Either mixed up or the VC never caught it.
This is me pretty much every night.
Empoof
Now it makes much more sense - thanks. I'm in a similar place for scumreads right now (spoiler: despite trying to be a bit more optimistic of osie my read has not changed after looking at his ISO in depth). (At osie/Grape/one of {
Voxx, Tubba, Titus, Empoof}).My issue with your read prior was mainly due to sheeping Ara: but seeing as their team knows them and you've obviously been trying to compare his behaviour here to what you think is scummy from him (my doubt on him coming from Marko who also knows him well).
Ara/Marko
I don't think you stated that reasoning before - but I think it's very well thought through, as it was with the Empoof read. Both I feel come from different angles to other people, and it's so in-depth I don't think it would come from scum. (Going to go and look at that game you linked though just to make sure you're not as good as Fable or something though.)
Scarlet
I just really like this post full stop. Since this'd just end up a repeat of what I said before otherwise:
my team has also been not as helpful as I would like to be fair. One teammate didn't read the game (and yet said RE was Town the entire time) and the other just went osie = scum without ever explaining why. (To be fair I trust the read.)
Also, I laughed at the wall thing because what I did in Mountainous was make walls that had only commentary. I had a bit of an ISO life at the time (would copy paste something but MAL is still down T.T). I think just by your team I know who that comes from so I think I understand the paranoia?
The focus on the interaction alone makes sense in that context, and leaving it at that for Day 1 instead of expanding on it makes me just feel like it comes from Town. For scum to be pleasing, they'd probably add a bit more to it.
osie
I've pretty much ended up in the same place as you here. I've only had a few games with osie, but this could be his scum game easily. It's fair that he's saying that conversation with me was NAI: we had to seriously talk about the argument we had in post and they shared similar sentiment there. (It was their scum game)
Like, I've only got a few pages into the ISO, but it feels like he's not trying to converse with the people he's scumreading. He's just commenting and the people he scumreads have to come to him to refute it. It feels like he's certain it's the path he has to take and it's weird.
Titus
I think there's likely two people from the Ara wagon in the scumteam, and one off it. From that, if Grape is Town then I am probably still right about osie, they're just scum with Empoof (him being off wagon) and Titus.
With how it is now, it's either Titus or Tubba in my mind. (My chat with you has definitely put you up to a Townier level.) I'm just not sure with this.
Titus I feel was in her element when I talked to them and I feel like their logic works for them. Them not answering the bussing question points to being less pleasing than Ara may have thought. But I get a sense of wrongness from what she has decided to use, and there's a minor misrepresentation issue.
Tubba's game here is different from any other I have looked at. It represents neither game of his. Although I liked certain pinpoints of what he has done, there's too little for me to read him well I find.
Right now I'm liking Titus > Tubba as Town but it's not too much of a difference.
You're using a lot of words in 1234 but reaching strained conclusions. Like Osie wolf by PoE. That just doesn't fly.
First, it implies you have a townread on Tubba or completely ignored him. Tubba's sole vote yesterday was choosingto save Grape over Ara. To clear that over Osie does not make sense. It was Tubba's vote that changed the momentum, not Osie's.
Second, MarkoRaj usually has a greater influence on the game on MU.
I dunno what to make of this, but this feels tonally different than your earlier posting.
I agree with this. It feels much more angry than usual, but still has this hint of fakeness about it.
It reminds me of Ara's posting. Ara uses far too many exclamations to where he looks fake. This has a similar feel, so all I can say is fake.
Can I get a list of where you stand on people? Doesn't need reasoning, just a list of Townie to scummy.
Irdk how to proceed wi5hout blood
:raises hand:
Ara and RE were town. That makes me doubt the rest of my reads too. But let's see.
Celeste - Game-solvey town, mostly looking at recent posts, but I think her energy in this game especially as of late is more likely to be real than not. I didn't like her early game, but as things went on, she shifted from just asking superficial questions to her "Encyclopedias" which seem categorically Townie outside of some degree of very short comments in parts. Overall, I'm at a Townlean.
Empoof - After rereading a bunch of Empoof's posts, I feel like the only way to read him for my sanity is to sieve out the posts where he actually says important things about other players. Those did get more prevalent later on, though. While I saw it as wishy-washy during Day 1, I think I don't see anything so subtle as his thoughts on Titus, or even thoughts on Grape, from scum. The fact that those are maintained as reads, though. Like, does he think he just solved the game Day 1? I'm starting to think that the vast majority of his issues with me are playstyle and personality. And besides, and I was refusing to think about this earlier because I was upset about things, why the hell does he try in #595 to make me play better and be more active in response to my unhappy lash-out if he's scum? Yeah, okay. My read was just wrong here; I was too colored by irritation at his playstyle and linking him with Ara. What I feel is missing at this point is talking about Trobaslot and expanding on his current read on me (he only talked about his read on me in any serious detail in two posts mid-to-early Day 1), but I think I'm okay to put him at a Townlean for now, given that I do think I was letting personal biases (and a degree of frustration due to what seems like an almost callous sort of misread/scumpush from both him and Voxx) greatly affect my read here.
Tammy started out super townie, dipped a bit for me, and has kinda stayed mostly stable at a light townread for me. When she's here, she's fantastic. When she's not here, or at least not really here, it's a bit more concerning, but it still feels like she's making an effort. I don't think I'm ever lynching Tammy this game outside of a LYLO situation, and I'm guessing that RE figured the same and bodyguarded her or scum was that set on pushing for mislynches off of RE's death. Townread.
Titus has openly stated that they have a different style. I kinda see that here, but I'm also kinda seeing someone who is trigger-happy, but backs off from confrontation sometimes. They also only cased one person all day yesterday, Celeste. Titus's game reading style of VCA honestly makes my eyes glaze over, but even putting that to the side, they don't seem to be actively trying to contribute. I was kinda a comfortable townlean, but there's some good points that were made recently, especially by Empoof, about Titus's potential motivations. Okay, down for a Scumread on Titus.
Voxx seems to be trying to take charge. Voxx, of all people. Okay. I think Voxx has been showing himself as very certain about the entire gamestate when he's been showing any thoughts on it at all. And that feels like a jarring disconnect. Like I try to solve the game in my games, but I only feel that confidence if I'm active enough to really have an idea of everything going on. I don't feel that this game, and Voxx has been even less active than I have. Maybe it's just down to experience, but I don't get it; he just doesn't seem to have been here, so where the heck is his confidence coming from? Besides, for him to go "I think Osie's an easy mislynch" and then turn around and read me not based on actual thoughts on my posts, but on PoE? Is this for real? This seems so lazy. And a bunch of his reads posts are only really talking about a few people, and then placing the rest without discussion. I guess he's catching up and trying to read things. But I really don't like his lack of commentary at several places. When he's talking to people he's sometimes a bit better, so I'm not at a definite read, but I feel okay with a Scumlean.
Marko is not someone I know well enough to be comfortable with the judgment reads that several people have here. But I can understand the reasoning for why people are townreading him… I think his thoughts are real enough even if they aren't as developed as they could be. I want to see more before considering a lynch here. Townlean.
Troba I had some playstyle issues with early on. Then she just… petered out. And she was always overtly focused on individual comments. She did one post about gamestate closer to the end of the day with short comments on each person. But it's so waffly and short… I don't know. Then I look at Worst and I see… Tunnel on me and not much else. And it's primarily based off of my first post? And semantics about wording? What's going on here? Then we have "The questions they're asking don't feel like they're advancing the game" which sounds like a specific echo of concerns on my post to Ara. And then they vote Grapefruit without commentary for quite a while, just sheeping a consensus read. And still shading me. My response was condescending? That's quite the dismissal of someone asking you to contribute more to the game and provide a better read. Yeah, I'm pretty solidly a Scumread here.
Grape kept on pushing RE for lousy reasoning. It was like he always was just looking for an angle. And he's been faffing about doing pretty much nothing else this entire game. There's no way in hell that this is town!Grape. It's just too over the top scummy. Scumread
Tubba concerns me. Like, I want to read his progressions as town. They look good. But he's been lurky at best and his reads seem to be significantly based on activity. I'm don't see myself putting him any higher than neutral, and I think the best place is a slight Scumlean until he does something to wow me again.
That puts me at:
Conftown
Osieorb18
Ara
RE
Townread
Tammy
Townlean
Celeste
Empoof
Marko
Neutral
Scumlean
Tubba
Voxx
Scumread
Grape
Titus
Trobaslot
I don't think I'm likely to be exactly right on the scumteam this game because of general lack of focus, but this is something.
I'm going to try a new analysis method out later today, so we'll see how that turns out.
What the hell are you talking about? I've asked pretty much all of my scumreads previous to talk more about the gamestate and their thoughts, you included. I've called out my scumreads for their actions and tried to pull them to do better so I can have a more definite read on them. And I've gotten very little out of them, with the exceptions of you and Empoof, who I'm now reading as town. So I'm asking the worst and Grapefruit to actually play the damn game and talk about their reads in more detail than "I think this person is scum because I just do" for worst and "I don't know what to think any more" for Grape.
I guess you can say I haven't pushed my most recent distinct scumread of Titus as much yet... But that's dumb; I literally just posted that read... I literally just decided on that read maybe an hour ago. What kind of a game are you reading, Celeste?
FAKE NEWS.
Can you actually put some effort into this game or are you just going to talk ***** some more?
Besides, this game seems to have turned into "Sheep the Lurker." Why aren't any of the people other than Celeste who have been active in this game forming their own reads? What kind of a joke is this?
Osie, why are you acting as if I am not existing? The wagon is on Grape. Your implosions are not helping. Forget the people who are coming after you. Find scum. They'll reveal themselves as scum, reveal you as scum or the t v t will end. Flailing about judge and jury is just ******* annoying. I defend people for a living and such histrionics are really annoying.