I don't know her alignment, but I was starting to think (and do more so now) that that was more likely to come from town. But it didn't matter. My post there should categorically not be read as anything other than NAI, since it was literally saying "If someone won't enjoy the game if I'm in it, then I'll leave the game." I'm never going to intentionally stay in a game at the cost of someone else's enjoyment. And that's why I said just "No." in response to you accusing me of cheating. (Thanks for that! /sarcasm) Because that post was me attempting to swap out. That's apparently not an option; the only option is finding replacement. But Scarlet made it clear that she doesn't prefer that step. So it's a moot point and we can move on.
See, that's the issue. You believed Scarlet when she said that. Why didn't you think it could have been a faked reaction? If you were scumreading her, that could have been faked frustration. She tunneled you throughout this game, then said something rather extreme for her situation - that if she was wrong about you, she wanted to be lynched.
There was no reason for you to have bought that reaction. You even accused her of using AtE. And I don't think it had anything to do with enjoyment, but that it would have been a blow to her confidence if she was wrong, or something. I think you've been reasonable this game. It would have been selfish for the other person to expect you (or anyone) to leave. That's something for the mod to decide.
It didn't occur to me that such a reaction would be fake because the interaction itself was on an OoG level. Besides, an AtE can come from either alignment. I think it's better to treat most of the interaction as NAI and move on, but to the degree that I am reading something out of it, I'm was immediately less certain about her alignment than I was before.
Do you think it's within Celeste's self-described light scum skillset to fake that interaction and then turn around and finally consider townreading me? That would be a pretty next-level gambit. And if I had ended up replacing out... This topic is one such that I honestly don't want to talk about this interaction any more until after the game is over, and if I do it will be with Celeste directly.
One issue you have is that he didn't write much: but that would be in the parameters of his condition. He was probably rushing so he didn't have to endure the pain. It's pretty NAI. He likely explained more on Titus because she was one of his biggest scumreads, and he had already explained Ara to a point so it fits. The headache was also likely why he skipped over Tammy (obvious) and Empoof (which I think he already explained). I think the only issue with that is that I want to know why despite lumping them together they were put on separate tiers. And still, it's a minor inconsistency likely caused by lack of care.
Tubba I think has been given a little too much credit for being a sheep read, but I think he must just trust his teammates. I'd like that to be updated though when given the chance. But that's pretty much my thoughts on this list.
osie, may I ask what pinged you about it, both the Town and scum parts? If you had to decide which of your explanations with what else Voxx has posted, would this be Townie or scummy or IDK?
The stark reads difference (Primarily Empoof, Tubba, RE) is usually a scum ping for me, unless well explained, which it wasn't, another scum ping. In general, his comments are very vague/handwavey, a scum ping.
I liked the expression of his read on Titus, town ping. The flow of the post itself feels reasonably organic, town ping (albeit the vagueness undercuts this a bit). Some of the reads feel very consistent with what he's said so far, town ping.
It didn't occur to me that such a reaction would be fake because the interaction itself was on an OoG level. Besides, an AtE can come from either alignment. I think it's better to treat most of the interaction as NAI and move on, but to the degree that I am reading something out of it, I'm was immediately less certain about her alignment than I was before.
Not the answer I was looking for... But that's unexpected. I've said something along the lines of "if x is town, I wouldn't blame anyone for lynching me." I've even self-voted in frustration (10/10 would not repeat). It wasn't even OoG imo. It was an expression of frustration, like regardless of whether she was town or not, the post was supposed to mean "if I'm wrong, **** me" or something. I wouldn't have interpreted it in that manner.
Do you think it's within Celeste's self-described light scum skillset to fake that interaction and then turn around and finally consider townreading me? That would be a pretty next-level gambit. And if I had ended up replacing out... This topic is one such that I honestly don't want to talk about this interaction any more until after the game is over, and if I do it will be with Celeste directly.
Back to what I said above, "if x is town, I wouldn't blame anyone for lynching me" is something I've said as both alignments. I've also said something along the lines of "I refuse to believe both x and y are town" (that one was as town, and I was right ). None of it was OoG, until you mentioned subbing out. Man, how did you even come to that conclusion
Right now, I don't really know? Like, I read it as really forced. Forgive my description... But I've seen upset town Scarlet and it didn't look like this.
The whole interaction looked forced tbh. Based on the fact it exists, I should be eliminating a Scarlet/Osie team, but I'm not? It doesn't feel right and now you're turning it into an OoG thing to avoid talking about it so the argument between the two of you can be dismissed as potential T/T. Absolutely disgusting
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
My response to that is to emotionally want Osie to be scum. I want that vindication, I want to be able to say "Who's hanging out with ghost pandas now!" Logically, I'm not certain of Osie's alignment, and understanding my biases in their regard is partly holding me back from voting there.
Another aspect to withholding my vote, is that in a sense I'm holding some power over the game state, and sooner or later someone will start either pressuring me to vote or excoriate me for not voting. That could be a potential windfall of information for post flip analysis.
Carl the invisible ghost panda just went out, bought a box of blueberry waffles, and ate them in your kitchen with some bell peppers, bay scallops, and a lot of salt. (And here I thought I wasn't going to get any use out of that joke again in a game with you. You brought this on yourself.)
Your bolding of words here feels overdramatized, and the phrase "I'm holding some power over the game state" is awful. That said...
Something pinged me in Ara's 747 and 748, I keep reading it and can't put my finger on it, but something feels off there.
Are you noticing what I'm noticing? I don't like how vague your comment on this is though.
I agree that the sentiment behind the post is silly. But the fact remains, nay it is enforced by the fact that you consistently view EVERYTHING I do in not even a scummy light,just an awful one. That's part of what contributed to my experience read. If you felt justified in trashing everything I did, you must know how it should be done. I don't want to drift off with this, just wanted to point out why I was holding my vote.
Regarding Ara, it's like they're asking a lot of questions about how you're reading the game, so that they don't have to? If that makes sense.
I don't like the question in regards to a Titus mislynch. For one, what makes it a mislynch? Two, why wouldn't town!Osie be adverse to a mislynch?
The awkward phrasing at the end of 747 is weird to me as well. It's like cool story bro, tell me how to line my reads up with yours?
For having a waffly (waffely?) stance on your slot, they seem to want to please you as opposed to push you.
748 they townclear two players based on an argument they didn't even bother to follow? I'm a little unclear who they're referencing (SC and ?), but it pinged me.
It felt like content to create content, not hunting.
It didn't occur to me that such a reaction would be fake because the interaction itself was on an OoG level. Besides, an AtE can come from either alignment. I think it's better to treat most of the interaction as NAI and move on, but to the degree that I am reading something out of it, I'm was immediately less certain about her alignment than I was before.
Not the answer I was looking for... But that's unexpected. I've said something along the lines of "if x is town, I wouldn't blame anyone for lynching me." I've even self-voted in frustration (10/10 would not repeat). It wasn't even OoG imo. It was an expression of frustration, like regardless of whether she was town or not, the post was supposed to mean "if I'm wrong, **** me" or something. I wouldn't have interpreted it in that manner.
Do you think it's within Celeste's self-described light scum skillset to fake that interaction and then turn around and finally consider townreading me? That would be a pretty next-level gambit. And if I had ended up replacing out... This topic is one such that I honestly don't want to talk about this interaction any more until after the game is over, and if I do it will be with Celeste directly.
Back to what I said above, "if x is town, I wouldn't blame anyone for lynching me" is something I've said as both alignments. I've also said something along the lines of "I refuse to believe both x and y are town" (that one was as town, and I was right ). None of it was OoG, until you mentioned subbing out. Man, how did you even come to that conclusion
Right now, I don't really know? Like, I read it as really forced. Forgive my description... But I've seen upset town Scarlet and it didn't look like this.
The whole interaction looked forced tbh. Based on the fact it exists, I should be eliminating a Scarlet/Osie team, but I'm not? It doesn't feel right and now you're turning it into an OoG thing to avoid talking about it so the argument between the two of you can be dismissed as potential T/T. Absolutely disgusting
No.
It was an OoG thing.
End of story.
Neither of us should have posted what we did post.
Talking about it further involves talking about replacements and the context around them, which is completely against the spirit, if not the letter, of the rules of the game.
If you want to read into it, that's your prerogative, but I'm absolutely done discussing it. I'm moving on.
I agree that the sentiment behind the post is silly. But the fact remains, nay it is enforced by the fact that you consistently view EVERYTHING I do in not even a scummy light,just an awful one. That's part of what contributed to my experience read. If you felt justified in trashing everything I did, you must know how it should be done. I don't want to drift off with this, just wanted to point out why I was holding my vote.
Honestly, I don't feel this way, and I'm sorry I created that impression. I already admitted that I felt I was fighting against bias based on previous games, and I've been doing everything I can to read you fairly despite that. I think some of the impression of that opinion was created by a conflation of terminology and a tendency for me to say "this is either scum or bad town," which I should really refrain from doing.
I respect you as a player and while yes, this probably sounds condescending, I look forward to seeing where you go from here. I'm concerned in this game that lurking is the status quo for you and for other players, and I hope that does not end up being the case. You clearly have somewhat of a sense of humor about previous games and I hope that can manifest in other manners to provide for a fun game.
Regarding Ara, it's like they're asking a lot of questions about how you're reading the game, so that they don't have to? If that makes sense.
I don't like the question in regards to a Titus mislynch. For one, what makes it a mislynch? Two, why wouldn't town!Osie be adverse to a mislynch?
The awkward phrasing at the end of 747 is weird to me as well. It's like cool story bro, tell me how to line my reads up with yours? For having a waffly (waffely?) stance on your slot, they seem to want to please you as opposed to push you.
Huh. Yeah, I see that. The question posts didn't real feel solvey, which contributed to a scumread on that slot.
748 they townclear two players based on an argument they didn't even bother to follow? I'm a little unclear who they're referencing (SC and ?), but it pinged me.
Actually, you know what, if osie is Town just ******* lynch me right now.
I am voting you... Now who is doing AtE's?
That is a statement made in anger, and I don't care if I die. If you = Town then Town might as well just get rid of me right now.
Osie is claiming it's OoG related but I don't see it. I don't know why you reacted so strongly to the possibility of being wrong on day 1, but I'm guessing that's what incited it. Was it? To make things simple - were you so sure of Osie being scum that you were willing to be lynched over it?
Right now, this reads to me as scum theater. It's ridiculously forced. I've never seen you react in this manner. You're claiming to be frustrated, angry, but I'm not feeling it. If Osie doesn't want to talk to me about it, that's fine. If others tell me your posts are OoG related and so not something to be further discussed, I won't. But I haven't even heard it from your end what you meant by it.
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Hey if anyone wants to live-time interactions this I made it; I'm here and dying but I'm still going to be here for the next few hours straight at the very least!!!!!!!
Why do you think Osie/Scarlet is T/T? I think the complete opposite. Before continuing, if I'm wrong about this, I'm sorry. It's a sensitive topic, and I'm only going to aggravate it. But I think it's necessary to clear it up.
To give a little background, there was a game several months ago on our homesite (MAL) with a unique mechanic that allowed players to make a list of pre-determined roles in the order of how badly they wanted the role... One of those roles was Bomb. As it happened, ScarletC rolled serial killer and got her first pick of bomb. Day 1, she "accidentally" let it slip she was the bomb role by providing the list of roles she submitted (with bomb as first choice) and asking if she was the only one who got the role she wanted. It was really clever and I only realized several days in that it wasn't an accident (and by that time I was dead).
A couple months prior to that game, there was the CoD game where Osie was scum (he's talked about this a couple times already). In that game, he gaslighted that ScarletC was angleshooting (and I think she was? but not as severe as he made it out to be) and she was scum, blah blah blah.
So the second part isn't too relevant. My point is there is nothing in ScarletC's posts ("town should lynch me if i'm wrong") that have anything to do with out-of-game. What does "OoG" and "bomb" have in common? They're both topics that town don't want to discuss in the main thread. One is awkward, the other outs a strong PR whose sole requirement is to stay hidden.
Well, RE, why would Scarlet and Osie pull these shenanigans in the first place???
You (Ara) townread their interactions. Vox didn't want to touch those interactions but in his post he eventually came to townleaning the two. Trob backed off Osie, and so did Foopme. In other words, they've created the ideal situation. Both Scarlet and Osie have garnered a fair number of townreads, and all because of an interaction nobody wants to talk about due to its severity. And to top it off, ScarletC and Osie, despite ScarletC tunneling Osie for most of the game, and Osie who wrote up a giant post against Scarlet, backed off each other far too quickly and far too easily.
Personally, I thought Osie's write up on Scarlet sounded fake af and Scarlet's reaction way too severe. I don't buy the frustration, especially since she's just saying she's frustrated, and it doesn't echo with the rest of her sentences. In fact:
vote: Osie
I will move back to Grape (or even onto you) if it's required for the lynch. But I'm more sure of a Scarlet/Osie team now. I'll even compromise for Scarlet, but I think Osie is going to be easier to build a train on.
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Before all hell breaks loose when I wake up in the morning - two questions
@Grapefruit
I'm sorry if I'm prying, but can your activity be explained by IRL reasons? Your inactivity is actually something that's influencing my read on you now but I've made the same mistake with town before.
@Ara
Super duper important question Vox asked you earlier I also want you to answer:
Empoof flips back and forth for me. His early game seemed useless, and I see a lot of fluff there. But then at other times he seems to be seriously posting. (Not a read: #646 IRL grosses me the **** out, though.) I have this nagging feeling that a lot of the posts that look like real posts are actually pretty NAI, and that he's kinda just surfing along and putting out statements to look good. I wish I could point to organic reasoning here, but it's really hard to find it in his posts. Empoof reminds me a lot of Tomsloger though, but with much more active statements. So overall, I'm going to treat him how I might treat Tomsloger in the early game when I'm not certain. Scumlean.
Titus is… hmm. My mind is telling me town and my gut is telling me scum. Their posting style kinda pings me here and there, but I think it's just that; posting style. I feel like I'm just clashing with Titus on principle here and there and that they actually have a decent amount to contribute. But I really need to focus in on them a lot to see if they are contributing that, since otherwise it may be drowned out by the clash in mannerisms. Overall, I'm at a Townlean.
Ara seems very focused on EoDs and lynches. I see some hunting from her, but it's not clear how organic it is. I think I'm going to be paranoid of Ara for a while since she seems sort-of affected/guarded in her approach to reading. Like she's intentionally leaving out some of her thoughts. Maybe it's legitimately that she isn't thinking anything else, but my impression of her was a very experienced, very active, very in tune player, and that's not really what's going on in this thread. All-in-all, I end up with a Scumlean.
Tubba seems like some weird combination of a much less self-aware and much more overconfident mishmash of LastWhisper, Shinichi, and himself. I really don't like it at all. I can't just put him at a scumread without talking myself into it since I don't think I can really objectively read him here. But his posts do feel like he might be thinking about things, even if his posting frustrates me even more than previous games. The gimmick really doesn't help or hurt here; it's more the content and mannerisms of the posts themselves. I'd like to say that I think he's too focused on trivial things that have nothing to do with anything. But I've been accused of the same this game, so I don't even know if that is fair. *Sigh* I'm going to put him at a probably-dealing-with-toMorrow Scumlean.
Things!!!!!!! As in there's several things I would like to address here:
Empoof - Can you expound upon what you mean about him being like Tom but with more active statements?
Titus - Your statement here is fairly hedgey here, but how do you fall on the side of him being town from that? Are you intending to focus on her more in this phase? If not, can you do that please?
Me - I'm curious as to what you mean by affected/guarded? I can assure you that my posts are, for the most part, just as empty as my thoughts are and haven't particularly felt connected with the game much at all, which I should have expected... Also have no idea why you think I'm experienced/active/in tune when I don't think I've displayed that in my play here at all?
Tubba - Can you go more into depth about how his posting was on previous games?
Someone asked me how my team was reading you or something; I don't remember whether I answered that? In any case, my team said that you're really passive as mafia, but never push the game anywhere as mafia - they said that since you are doing stuff and seem to be trying to push the game somewhere means you're probably town and I agree with them for the most part!!
Hm. (Emphasis on bold part)
Ara, your team is Visor and Lissa. How do they know enough about Osie's meta and play as both alignments for this to be a real read? Osie only plays on MTGS as far as I know and like. I really can't see either of them actually following a ton of games over here - hell I don't even know what games Osie has been scum in and what his meta is like as scum to have a bead on it, and I read most games over here.
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
The mans features twist into a hideous visage, and with a burst of heat and light, the creature leaps up from the table! The madness of bloodlust tinge its eyes as it prowls the library for suitable prey...
@Osie, I appreciate that. Carl can come over anytime!
What pinged you regarding Ara's posts I mentioned? From your response I take it you observed something different.
What pinged you regarding Ara's posts I mentioned? From your response I take it you observed something different.
I mentioned the disconnect in how she was addressing me. Also I found a number of posts to be kinda vague and potentially just asking questions for the sake of asking questions. I'm a bit concerned as well that she fits well into a number of teams, though it's more individual scumminess than interactions as of yet.
Actually, you know what, if osie is Town just ******* lynch me right now.
I am voting you... Now who is doing AtE's?
That is a statement made in anger, and I don't care if I die. If you = Town then Town might as well just get rid of me right now.
Osie is claiming it's OoG related but I don't see it. I don't know why you reacted so strongly to the possibility of being wrong on day 1, but I'm guessing that's what incited it. Was it? To make things simple - were you so sure of Osie being scum that you were willing to be lynched over it?
Right now, this reads to me as scum theater. It's ridiculously forced. I've never seen you react in this manner. You're claiming to be frustrated, angry, but I'm not feeling it. If Osie doesn't want to talk to me about it, that's fine. If others tell me your posts are OoG related and so not something to be further discussed, I won't. But I haven't even heard it from your end what you meant by it.
You're missing the context of the post before it: what you quoted was just an afterthought. I honestly don't know why I said the first part so badly, the second part was after I calmed down slightly but was still really pissed off and trying to calm down. I basically couldn't see a world where osie was not scum and at the time I was like "if I'm Town and they are Town but I can's see them as that and tunnel them for an entire game I might as well die here". And tbh I have no clue what logic I was using in that moment.
(The bit osie doesn't want to talk about is after that.)
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
To be fair, nobody actually realised I was the Bomb until I reclaimed Day 3. The big thing about that game was that I didn't have to pretend to be anything: I was trying to kill scum to make sure I didn't get lynched. I didn't have to worry about the NK between my Bomb and my Commute.
Also, I was not angleshooting. I was using a TABLE. (Turns out it was some sort of loophole back then but the mods agreed it was fine. Source: Shinichi.)
Also, I have no issues discussing the part where I say that. My own and osie's issue is after that: the part about the subbing and I was trying to damage control it since I was so annoyed at him, but more at myself for making someone feel that way.
RE, I wouldn't do something like that. Emotional distress is too horrible and too hard to fake. Your connection is with a fake claim which is much easier since has no need for emotions to be involved: as is everything I tried to do in Waking Life has no need for emotion. I'd not do this as scum as well because it would just likely perpetuate any future confrontations I have as Town due to the possibility of disbelief which was one of the worse factors in CoD.
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
PS: this does not mean I wouldn't not have a mental breakdown as Town in some games, osie. Conversely, does not mean I wouldn't have actual mental breakdowns in my scum games.
(Also, need to pack soon so I probably won't be on again until tomorrow.)
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
Okay I’m just gonna ADD wall post my full thought process because I’m feeling really weird with this game. I think this is the first game I’ve felt compelled to not post in as town, like an actual adversion. Part of it is probably how shaky my reads feel on most people, part of it might be something to do with how the thread feels in a holistic sense. My team thinks it’s possible that means scum are in higher/more active posters. Not really sure.
Paragraph breaks aren’t going to be as sensical, probably. Might be broken by player.
I’m getting more comfortable with Marko as town. I can’t really explain it. There’s a way he’s approaching and viewing the thread that feels correct. Good example is how he’s treating me and prodding me. I think town!marko has a slight scumlean on me but views some of my overall thought process as townie, and doesn’t want to hit the button until he’s more confident since we work well together and I tend to have more weird starts lately. Also think scum!marko cares more(?) about his stances in the thread making sense and fitting a mold which I don’t really see happening.
Ara is an annoyingly entity for my brain because all of my fail safe checks with her aren’t going to apply as well because [ongoing], she’s become better, and the way this format warps thread flow play. I can see all the questions and reads having potential to come from a town!ara. I think her reactions to me sussing her just on a baseline feel villagery, which is weird to say because logically they’re just empty “hey I’m here” posts that should come from either alignment. It’s painfully obvious when she’s making those posts she’s waiting for me specifically and I think it’s the thirst of interaction that I find I like. The main issues I have are based on weird read reasonings like the one voxx pointed out or a couple of her town pings on me. Also I’m used to reading aras iso and when she’s asking a lot of somewhat empty questions she’s a wolf. I wanted to see what happened when I clicked the button and wanted to be there when she said she’d be around. It’s currently really really difficult watching her be a highly viable lynch and not knowing what her alignment flip is. I think I don’t want it to go through but I’m just barely not confident enough to stop it as of right now. Also somethings about the reaction to her wagon just make me feel like it’s not a good flip - it’s not just osies vote and unvote. I can’t describe this well or really point to anything.
I think after writing that I village read Ara
I’m gonna hit the send button here but likely write more on my boat.
To be fair, nobody actually realised I was the Bomb until I reclaimed Day 3. The big thing about that game was that I didn't have to pretend to be anything: I was trying to kill scum to make sure I didn't get lynched. I didn't have to worry about the NK between my Bomb and my Commute.
Also, I was not angleshooting. I was using a TABLE. (Turns out it was some sort of loophole back then but the mods agreed it was fine. Source: Shinichi.)
Also, I have no issues discussing the part where I say that. My own and osie's issue is after that: the part about the subbing and I was trying to damage control it since I was so annoyed at him, but more at myself for making someone feel that way.
RE, I wouldn't do something like that. Emotional distress is too horrible and too hard to fake. Your connection is with a fake claim which is much easier since has no need for emotions to be involved: as is everything I tried to do in Waking Life has no need for emotion. I'd not do this as scum as well because it would just likely perpetuate any future confrontations I have as Town due to the possibility of disbelief which was one of the worse factors in CoD.
Well, my point was you were capable of the idea, not whether it worked or not.
Okay, so it wasn't OoG. Osie misinterpreted it very badly (and I want to say deliberately). I didn't miss the context of it, I still thought it was way too extreme for the situation.
You had no issue dismissing Osie's AtE post earlier. You labeled it as coming from scum with little hesitation. And if you and Osie are aligned, then there's no harm done on either side because it was planned.
But it's also a small part of why I'm voting Osie instead of you. He's the one pushing the OoG agenda and made the awkward post in the first place.
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
RE just occupies an incredibly weird space in my mind. I was super into how they reacted when I went gunhoe about them. I think them continuously posting and being top thread presence in the way they’re doing it is likely villager. A lot of their approach feels like it comes from a place of good. But some of their approach doesn’t. I really didn’t like their read on me after I had left our powwow. It felt like reasonings they should have had on page 3 rather than a reaction to how we interacted. Some of their thoughts just... don’t feel real? It’s not really fair for me to say this but some of the tosser posts they’ve made and connections they’ve drawn feel either too convoluted or too simplistically done. Example being their “heavy tinfoil on empoof+osie” when I think that’s a horrible thought to have in that gamestate and is a pigeonholed idea based off of a couple posts vs overall gameplay. Something about their tubba ISO’s felt just weird to me too. It’s something to do with how I’m following the bouncing ball in their process and it makes me want to grab the ball and hold it in place for an eternity and read other people’s posts. The way people have approached town reads on RE isn’t the same as how Tammy became IC on thought process+thread spew but I’ve also liked basically all of tammy’s Posts so far so shrug. That was more a response to a question RE posed earlier to someone. I’m basically calling them a villager until it’s an actual problem I have to deal with which feels horrible. I hate to say this too but I think their posting is part of the reason I don’t like posting and can’t really explain why. Doesn’t have to do with them being at odds with me because I felt that way after they locked me town and looked in directions I was looking.
This whole thing felt like an over explained play style clash.
This whole thing felt like an over explained play style clash.
I honestly haven't felt that way about you, so I'm sorry. If you ever figure out what bothers you about my posting, let me know and perhaps I can patch things up. I'd hate for my posting to make someone not want to post if there's something I can do about it.
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
This whole thing felt like an over explained play style clash.
I honestly haven't felt that way about you, so I'm sorry. If you ever figure out what bothers you about my posting, let me know and perhaps I can patch things up. I'd hate for my posting to make someone not want to post if there's something I can do about it.
Yeah I don’t really understand it atm. It could have nothing to do with your posting and be all my own stuff. I’m sort of just rambling my thoughts in hope that sense will be made after I post which isn’t really working
I would ramble about other people but I don’t have as much concrete things to say so it feels more futile
Tubba feels like town and I don’t know why.
Osie could be town could be scum and I’m aware of the reasons for both in my head.
Grapefruit could be town could be scum, not really aware of the reasons even after skimming their iso however long ago
Voxx town for a lot of things in his larger comeback post but also if he’s scum he’s gonna townside more than not so it’s fine.
ScarletCekestial no real idea, this is a true flip flop read where sometimes I think hard they’re a villager and other times I think they’re wolfy. Right now I think they’re null lol.
Ara is an annoyingly entity for my brain because all of my fail safe checks with her aren’t going to apply as well because [ongoing], she’s become better, and the way this format warps thread flow play. I can see all the questions and reads having potential to come from a town!ara. I think her reactions to me sussing her just on a baseline feel villagery, which is weird to say because logically they’re just empty “hey I’m here” posts that should come from either alignment. It’s painfully obvious when she’s making those posts she’s waiting for me specifically and I think it’s the thirst of interaction that I find I like. The main issues I have are based on weird read reasonings like the one voxx pointed out or a couple of her town pings on me. Also I’m used to reading aras iso and when she’s asking a lot of somewhat empty questions she’s a wolf. I wanted to see what happened when I clicked the button and wanted to be there when she said she’d be around. It’s currently really really difficult watching her be a highly viable lynch and not knowing what her alignment flip is. I think I don’t want it to go through but I’m just barely not confident enough to stop it as of right now. Also somethings about the reaction to her wagon just make me feel like it’s not a good flip - it’s not just osies vote and unvote. I can’t describe this well or really point to anything.
Why does one post asking for RTI if they only want to talk to one person? And besides, why does she ONLY want to talk to you? Why is she not expressing that? That seems like strange behavior.
I voted because I'm scumreading her, and would probably still be willing to lynch. But I don't like the current wagon on her, since I'm currently at no better than neutral on Voxx and at a scumlean on you. I guess it's overall kinda an equal opportunity wagon, but I also don't like that you're hedging your bets while remaining on the wagon. Sounds like it could be the beginning of scum stepping off of a buddy, though, so...
Vote: Ara
@Empoof: Your only solid read is... town!Marko? town!Ara? town!Tammy? town!RE You're so hedgy that it's not clear who you even are solidly reading as either town or scum.
Ara is an annoyingly entity for my brain because all of my fail safe checks with her aren’t going to apply as well because [ongoing], she’s become better, and the way this format warps thread flow play. I can see all the questions and reads having potential to come from a town!ara. I think her reactions to me sussing her just on a baseline feel villagery, which is weird to say because logically they’re just empty “hey I’m here” posts that should come from either alignment. It’s painfully obvious when she’s making those posts she’s waiting for me specifically and I think it’s the thirst of interaction that I find I like. The main issues I have are based on weird read reasonings like the one voxx pointed out or a couple of her town pings on me. Also I’m used to reading aras iso and when she’s asking a lot of somewhat empty questions she’s a wolf. I wanted to see what happened when I clicked the button and wanted to be there when she said she’d be around. It’s currently really really difficult watching her be a highly viable lynch and not knowing what her alignment flip is. I think I don’t want it to go through but I’m just barely not confident enough to stop it as of right now. Also somethings about the reaction to her wagon just make me feel like it’s not a good flip - it’s not just osies vote and unvote. I can’t describe this well or really point to anything.
I think after writing that I village read Ara
I’m gonna hit the send button here but likely write more on my boat.
Man. Have you actually read her ISO in full lately? All 3 members of my team agree that it's a case of 'doesn't care about the answers to the questions she is asking'. That fits how you describe her wolf play completely in the bolded, blue sections highlighted.
I get that there's mitigating factors for activity, energy, etc - she's busy with things that are more time sensitive. But that doesn't explain the disconnect between words and actions she's displayed this game. I still can't shake her entrance to the thread - expressing excitement and desire to play, but then not engaging with the stuff that's happening at that point in game doesn't resonate me as being Town!Ara. The questions she asks, the stuff she's doing feels like posting for the sake of being seen posting, and being seen trying to scum hunt - I just haven't seen a baseline of critical insight or nuance to anything she's asked people like she genuinely cares about the answer, or that the answer is going to be useful to her in terms of figuring out alignments.
I would ramble about other people but I don’t have as much concrete things to say so it feels more futile
Tubba feels like town and I don’t know why.
Osie could be town could be scum and I’m aware of the reasons for both in my head.
Grapefruit could be town could be scum, not really aware of the reasons even after skimming their iso however long ago
Voxx town for a lot of things in his larger comeback post but also if he’s scum he’s gonna townside more than not so it’s fine.
ScarletCekestial no real idea, this is a true flip flop read where sometimes I think hard they’re a villager and other times I think they’re wolfy. Right now I think they’re null lol.
Titus I might have to rethink my approach on
Elaborate on this, if you could please.
I don't really think there was much in that post that was alignment indicative for me, it was just kind of using the thread to dump some thoughts and see where I'm at in a macro sense.
As a reminder, majority lynch is enabled, and if a majority lynch is not achieved by the deadline, the players who are not voting will be ignored, potentially reducing the lynch threshold at deadline.
Reminder for folks for day ending in ~24 hours, and for the...voting thing. Not sure how relevant it is, most people will be voting, but yeah. Crunch time, gonna need to look at the wagons and make your calls.
This is another friendly reminder that the deadline is in ~24 hours.
Trobairitz has been prodded.
If Trobairitz and Grapefruit21 do not post content before the deadline, they will be counted as not voting for deadline lynch purposes.
Problems with this vote count? PM me or DM me on Discord for the fastest response. Posting something in-thread will probably get my attention eventually.
It's interesting that you think they're w/w; I guess it just didn't read as fake to me as you do! Part of it is that I think mafia would generally try to be a bit more placating to the other if one of them were mafia, and I suppose I just don't see w/w theater that much either!! I'm not entirely sure why you're asking me why I read them v/v when you sort of explained in the post why someone would read them as v/v?
Because I wanted your reasoning, since earlier your read on them was coupled with saying you hadn't been following the conversation well. Part of it might have been rhetorical too. Another part is since I suspect ScarletC and Osie, I'm looking at the people who were quick to dismiss them as T/T, which were you and Voxx. I'd also want more reasoning to why that interaction would be read as T/T, because it actually read as pretty fake to me?
I don't actually think I explained how someone might read the interaction as T/T. I explained why nobody wanted to look at it (because it was severe), but those aren't the qualifications to be T/T.
About Vox's question - is it against the rules? ScarletC already brought up a post her teammates linked on Tammy (but apparently it wasn't actually from Tammy). And Osie has given his experience with everyone playing in Team Mafia.
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Example being their “heavy tinfoil on empoof+osie” when I think that’s a horrible thought to have in that gamestate and is a pigeonholed idea based off of a couple posts vs overall gameplay.
I mean, I'm suspecting a Scarlet/Osie team currently, so that's also a pretty horrible thought given how much they clashed this game. But I think the way they backed off each other is unnatural, and I've been having bad feelings about Scarlet all game. The feelings about Osie didn't develop until he lashed back at Scarlet. I'd understand if you disagree with my reasoning, but some extreme reactions aren't just explained by T/T or T/W, but by W/W. If Osie is town, I don't think you say those things to him as a wolf. But as W/W, it's within the boundaries of acceptable. I'd really like you to be town. But I have to play this without being emotionally manipulated.
Example: In a 13er cop game I was in, a vanilla red checked scum, but earlier n0'd scum. We came very close to lynching the scum the vanilla "red checked," but the scum's reaction was very pure - he knew that the vanilla was lying. I assumed that meant he was town, but I didn't make the connection in time that all it meant was he knew the vanilla was lying, because he already gave a green check on another scum.
You were at top town, but I was concerned that was an overestimate of your posts, especially with more recent posts seeming less productive overall. As I said, tinfoiling some worlds where you're not town, but overall you're still at least neutral. I need to go through your ISO again and see if what I thought I saw was real or not.
I've been trying to keep up the past couple days, but my stepdad passed earlier tonight, and I just can't with mafia right now.
Deadline is tomorrow though I know, so I'm at least going to try to get out my team's thoughts and my earlier thoughts in case I die tonight, but it's gonna have to be in just little snippets here and there, and I'll try to get as much down as possible before deadline tomorrow. I doubt very seriously i'll be able to do any in depth reading of anything and I'm not caught up and doubt I will be.
I gave my/my team thoughts on Ara earlier and I don't have any updated thoughts about her, and unfortunately I doubt very seriously I'm going to actually be able to suss out if there's anything alignment indicative about her responses and posts here today. I'll check other people's responses about her posts today, but not sure where I want to move my vote if I do need/want to. Kinda skimmed some of the responses to/about Voxx and I'm not totally sure how I feel about the responses.
As far as Voxx is concerned though, he's a bit of a conundrum this game, mostly due to lack of posting. I don't hate his read on Ara, saw his response to empoof I think who thought ara looked a little villager? And yeah I dunno. Tonally he sounds fine and my entire team liked his earlier posts tonally at times. I didn't like the post where he said he was going to be low effort and then kill someone at the end of day one that looked the worst. My team pointed out the several times he mentioned being low effort and didn't much like that. My thing was the kill someone bit; it's the type of phrase that always bugs me because it's the type of phrase scum use a lot out of puffery. Town do it to sometimes, especially players that think highly of their scum hunting skills, so yeah still bugged me a bit. There were a few other little things that bugged me like the early response about RE I asked and the artificial content thing. So just some little things here and there that if he's town here would have been drowned out by other townie things, but since he hasn't really been posting and gotten into the game, those little things still linger.
My team doesn't like post 47. They think there were other things to pick up on by that point, and even if he's taking it easy and going low effort that there's a couple other things that would have naturally just caught his eye to comment on. There's also the concern about RE, who my team thinks is obviously town and is concerned that he/his team doesn't recognize that. This last one is a team thought I don't really share. I don't know Voxx well enough to call him out for not town reading someone I'm town reading. I think that tell in particular is somewhat weak because people see different things, and unless you know what they in particular read town/scum and why then well I've been burned more than once for that kind of thinking. I would like to know what he's been side-eyeing with RE though because I've had her pretty solidly town all day. Think there are some posts that raise my eyebrows, but also think they get explained away by relative lack of experience in the game. (I did have concerns that his response to my question early game about RE was indicative of some early distancing, I don't really believe that anymore, but yeah that was an early game tinfoil.)
I think it was markoraj who pointed out that people shouldn't be town reading him for what he's posted so far, and he's right. I do hope he's town, and I'd never vote for him today when all I have are these little niggles and not an actual scumread when it's also likely that he just hasn't had a chance to get in to the game. But if Ara does flip scum, do not just give him a game pass because from what I understand he does like to bus. If he is town with really good reads, that should be pretty clear once he starts delving into the game.
RE is a town read my entire team shares. I've just liked most of her posts for town, didn't too much like some of the response to the SC/Osie spat. While I understand worrying about scum theater, the whole getting after Osie for having a natural human reaction to someone seeming like they don't want to play with you was just huh? So the way she went about the interaction I didn't like much but it's probably indicative of misunderstanding behavior rather than being alignment indicative. IDK, really interested in why Voxx team is giving side-eyes though. Couple solid takeaways of what my team likes: RE's opening, interaction with Trob at the beginning of the game, breaking down her problems with SC's questions to grapefruit, her paranoid concern about grape's push and theory that develops from that on page six.
Okay need to step away. I'll try to be back in a bit with a couple more thoughts.
Empoof!! Hi!!!! Are you down to words now? I've been around, was looking for the ScarletCelestial/Osieorb interaction which I thought was a lot earlier than I expected for some reason! It's on page 15 for the most part by the way; just slowly trawling my way through the walls...
What is your actual read on Titus though, I don't remember? You said you were going to rethink your approach on her; what was your previous approach and how did that go, why did you want to change it?
Yes.
My read on Titus *was* that on a baseline her tone is fine and I think she sufficiently showed herself as having no partners that I considered viable. But that's lazy writing. My approach was to avoid reading her and give the read i just gave. I don't really know how that went. We're gonna **** around for a bit instead since that's more thrilling writing.
Give me the short version of why you're so aggressively against Titus and Voxx. And if we lynched osie or grapefruit would you mind?
Huh. Haven't had scum threaten to NK me when I voted for them... That's a new one.
Cheeky.
Tell me why I'm scum boyo. Having wishywashy reads isn't a good reason.
What caused me to vote for you was the abrupt, unexplained vote change to an objectively townier player, as if you had gotten the cue from a buddy in a scum chat.
RE is a town read my entire team shares. I've just liked most of her posts for town, didn't too much like some of the response to the SC/Osie spat. While I understand worrying about scum theater, the whole getting after Osie for having a natural human reaction to someone seeming like they don't want to play with you was just huh? So the way she went about the interaction I didn't like much but it's probably indicative of misunderstanding behavior rather than being alignment indicative. IDK, really interested in why Voxx team is giving side-eyes though. Couple solid takeaways of what my team likes: RE's opening, interaction with Trob at the beginning of the game, breaking down her problems with SC's questions to grapefruit, her paranoid concern about grape's push and theory that develops from that on page six.
You disagree with what I saw, that's fine (nooooooo not really). But I stand strongly by my assessment of what happened there.
My reads on Osie and Scarlet aren't solely based on that interaction. It just helped me see their alignments. A couple things stood out to me prior that bugged me. ScarletC sheeping several of my observations/reads (Tubba, Grape/Ara) team, for example.
Gun to head scum team is Osie/ScarletC/Vox. Might have put Ara in there instead of Vox but Osie's voting there and Scarlet and Ara don't seem aligned based on the attention she's given Ara instead of Vox. Grape I wanted to be scum but... I think something else besides alignment might be a factor in why he seems scummy to me, and it would explain why Scarlet and Osie were so hesitant to scumread him because they knew his lurkiness was NAI.
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Huh. Haven't had scum threaten to NK me when I voted for them... That's a new one.
Cheeky.
Tell me why I'm scum boyo. Having wishywashy reads isn't a good reason.
What caused me to vote for you was the abrupt, unexplained vote change to an objectively townier player, as if you had gotten the cue from a buddy in a scum chat.
Am I not capable of doing that as a villager? Was unaware.
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It didn't occur to me that such a reaction would be fake because the interaction itself was on an OoG level. Besides, an AtE can come from either alignment. I think it's better to treat most of the interaction as NAI and move on, but to the degree that I am reading something out of it, I'm was immediately less certain about her alignment than I was before.
Do you think it's within Celeste's self-described light scum skillset to fake that interaction and then turn around and finally consider townreading me? That would be a pretty next-level gambit. And if I had ended up replacing out... This topic is one such that I honestly don't want to talk about this interaction any more until after the game is over, and if I do it will be with Celeste directly.
This is fair.
The stark reads difference (Primarily Empoof, Tubba, RE) is usually a scum ping for me, unless well explained, which it wasn't, another scum ping. In general, his comments are very vague/handwavey, a scum ping.
I liked the expression of his read on Titus, town ping. The flow of the post itself feels reasonably organic, town ping (albeit the vagueness undercuts this a bit). Some of the reads feel very consistent with what he's said so far, town ping.
Unvote
I'm going to go finish that ISOing and think a bit. I'll probably decide on a shortlist of would lynch for the end of the day phase within 12 hours.
Right now, I don't really know? Like, I read it as really forced. Forgive my description... But I've seen upset town Scarlet and it didn't look like this.
The whole interaction looked forced tbh. Based on the fact it exists, I should be eliminating a Scarlet/Osie team, but I'm not? It doesn't feel right and now you're turning it into an OoG thing to avoid talking about it so the argument between the two of you can be dismissed as potential T/T. Absolutely disgusting
I agree that the sentiment behind the post is silly. But the fact remains, nay it is enforced by the fact that you consistently view EVERYTHING I do in not even a scummy light,just an awful one. That's part of what contributed to my experience read. If you felt justified in trashing everything I did, you must know how it should be done. I don't want to drift off with this, just wanted to point out why I was holding my vote.
Regarding Ara, it's like they're asking a lot of questions about how you're reading the game, so that they don't have to? If that makes sense.
I don't like the question in regards to a Titus mislynch. For one, what makes it a mislynch? Two, why wouldn't town!Osie be adverse to a mislynch?
The awkward phrasing at the end of 747 is weird to me as well. It's like cool story bro, tell me how to line my reads up with yours?
For having a waffly (waffely?) stance on your slot, they seem to want to please you as opposed to push you.
748 they townclear two players based on an argument they didn't even bother to follow? I'm a little unclear who they're referencing (SC and ?), but it pinged me.
It felt like content to create content, not hunting.
No.
It was an OoG thing.
End of story.
Neither of us should have posted what we did post.
Talking about it further involves talking about replacements and the context around them, which is completely against the spirit, if not the letter, of the rules of the game.
If you want to read into it, that's your prerogative, but I'm absolutely done discussing it. I'm moving on.
Honestly, I don't feel this way, and I'm sorry I created that impression. I already admitted that I felt I was fighting against bias based on previous games, and I've been doing everything I can to read you fairly despite that. I think some of the impression of that opinion was created by a conflation of terminology and a tendency for me to say "this is either scum or bad town," which I should really refrain from doing.
I respect you as a player and while yes, this probably sounds condescending, I look forward to seeing where you go from here. I'm concerned in this game that lurking is the status quo for you and for other players, and I hope that does not end up being the case. You clearly have somewhat of a sense of humor about previous games and I hope that can manifest in other manners to provide for a fun game.
Huh. Yeah, I see that. The question posts didn't real feel solvey, which contributed to a scumread on that slot.
That was SC and myself, I think.
Can you clarify what you meant by these two posts:
Osie is claiming it's OoG related but I don't see it. I don't know why you reacted so strongly to the possibility of being wrong on day 1, but I'm guessing that's what incited it. Was it? To make things simple - were you so sure of Osie being scum that you were willing to be lynched over it?
Right now, this reads to me as scum theater. It's ridiculously forced. I've never seen you react in this manner. You're claiming to be frustrated, angry, but I'm not feeling it. If Osie doesn't want to talk to me about it, that's fine. If others tell me your posts are OoG related and so not something to be further discussed, I won't. But I haven't even heard it from your end what you meant by it.
To give a little background, there was a game several months ago on our homesite (MAL) with a unique mechanic that allowed players to make a list of pre-determined roles in the order of how badly they wanted the role... One of those roles was Bomb. As it happened, ScarletC rolled serial killer and got her first pick of bomb. Day 1, she "accidentally" let it slip she was the bomb role by providing the list of roles she submitted (with bomb as first choice) and asking if she was the only one who got the role she wanted. It was really clever and I only realized several days in that it wasn't an accident (and by that time I was dead).
A couple months prior to that game, there was the CoD game where Osie was scum (he's talked about this a couple times already). In that game, he gaslighted that ScarletC was angleshooting (and I think she was? but not as severe as he made it out to be) and she was scum, blah blah blah.
So the second part isn't too relevant. My point is there is nothing in ScarletC's posts ("town should lynch me if i'm wrong") that have anything to do with out-of-game. What does "OoG" and "bomb" have in common? They're both topics that town don't want to discuss in the main thread. One is awkward, the other outs a strong PR whose sole requirement is to stay hidden.
Well, RE, why would Scarlet and Osie pull these shenanigans in the first place???
You (Ara) townread their interactions. Vox didn't want to touch those interactions but in his post he eventually came to townleaning the two. Trob backed off Osie, and so did Foopme. In other words, they've created the ideal situation. Both Scarlet and Osie have garnered a fair number of townreads, and all because of an interaction nobody wants to talk about due to its severity. And to top it off, ScarletC and Osie, despite ScarletC tunneling Osie for most of the game, and Osie who wrote up a giant post against Scarlet, backed off each other far too quickly and far too easily.
Personally, I thought Osie's write up on Scarlet sounded fake af and Scarlet's reaction way too severe. I don't buy the frustration, especially since she's just saying she's frustrated, and it doesn't echo with the rest of her sentences. In fact:
vote: Osie
I will move back to Grape (or even onto you) if it's required for the lynch. But I'm more sure of a Scarlet/Osie team now. I'll even compromise for Scarlet, but I think Osie is going to be easier to build a train on.
@Grapefruit
I'm sorry if I'm prying, but can your activity be explained by IRL reasons? Your inactivity is actually something that's influencing my read on you now but I've made the same mistake with town before.
@Ara
Super duper important question Vox asked you earlier I also want you to answer:
@Osie, I appreciate that. Carl can come over anytime!
What pinged you regarding Ara's posts I mentioned? From your response I take it you observed something different.
I mentioned the disconnect in how she was addressing me. Also I found a number of posts to be kinda vague and potentially just asking questions for the sake of asking questions. I'm a bit concerned as well that she fits well into a number of teams, though it's more individual scumminess than interactions as of yet.
You're missing the context of the post before it: what you quoted was just an afterthought. I honestly don't know why I said the first part so badly, the second part was after I calmed down slightly but was still really pissed off and trying to calm down. I basically couldn't see a world where osie was not scum and at the time I was like "if I'm Town and they are Town but I can's see them as that and tunnel them for an entire game I might as well die here". And tbh I have no clue what logic I was using in that moment.
(The bit osie doesn't want to talk about is after that.)
To be fair, nobody actually realised I was the Bomb until I reclaimed Day 3. The big thing about that game was that I didn't have to pretend to be anything: I was trying to kill scum to make sure I didn't get lynched. I didn't have to worry about the NK between my Bomb and my Commute.
Also, I was not angleshooting. I was using a TABLE. (Turns out it was some sort of loophole back then but the mods agreed it was fine. Source: Shinichi.)
Also, I have no issues discussing the part where I say that. My own and osie's issue is after that: the part about the subbing and I was trying to damage control it since I was so annoyed at him, but more at myself for making someone feel that way.
RE, I wouldn't do something like that. Emotional distress is too horrible and too hard to fake. Your connection is with a fake claim which is much easier since has no need for emotions to be involved: as is everything I tried to do in Waking Life has no need for emotion. I'd not do this as scum as well because it would just likely perpetuate any future confrontations I have as Town due to the possibility of disbelief which was one of the worse factors in CoD.
(Also, need to pack soon so I probably won't be on again until tomorrow.)
Paragraph breaks aren’t going to be as sensical, probably. Might be broken by player.
I’m getting more comfortable with Marko as town. I can’t really explain it. There’s a way he’s approaching and viewing the thread that feels correct. Good example is how he’s treating me and prodding me. I think town!marko has a slight scumlean on me but views some of my overall thought process as townie, and doesn’t want to hit the button until he’s more confident since we work well together and I tend to have more weird starts lately. Also think scum!marko cares more(?) about his stances in the thread making sense and fitting a mold which I don’t really see happening.
Ara is an annoyingly entity for my brain because all of my fail safe checks with her aren’t going to apply as well because [ongoing], she’s become better, and the way this format warps thread flow play. I can see all the questions and reads having potential to come from a town!ara. I think her reactions to me sussing her just on a baseline feel villagery, which is weird to say because logically they’re just empty “hey I’m here” posts that should come from either alignment. It’s painfully obvious when she’s making those posts she’s waiting for me specifically and I think it’s the thirst of interaction that I find I like. The main issues I have are based on weird read reasonings like the one voxx pointed out or a couple of her town pings on me. Also I’m used to reading aras iso and when she’s asking a lot of somewhat empty questions she’s a wolf. I wanted to see what happened when I clicked the button and wanted to be there when she said she’d be around. It’s currently really really difficult watching her be a highly viable lynch and not knowing what her alignment flip is. I think I don’t want it to go through but I’m just barely not confident enough to stop it as of right now. Also somethings about the reaction to her wagon just make me feel like it’s not a good flip - it’s not just osies vote and unvote. I can’t describe this well or really point to anything.
I think after writing that I village read Ara
I’m gonna hit the send button here but likely write more on my boat.
Okay, so it wasn't OoG. Osie misinterpreted it very badly (and I want to say deliberately). I didn't miss the context of it, I still thought it was way too extreme for the situation.
You had no issue dismissing Osie's AtE post earlier. You labeled it as coming from scum with little hesitation. And if you and Osie are aligned, then there's no harm done on either side because it was planned.
But it's also a small part of why I'm voting Osie instead of you. He's the one pushing the OoG agenda and made the awkward post in the first place.
This whole thing felt like an over explained play style clash.
Doesn’t change it for me, I saw that when I wrote that post
Tubba feels like town and I don’t know why.
Osie could be town could be scum and I’m aware of the reasons for both in my head.
Grapefruit could be town could be scum, not really aware of the reasons even after skimming their iso however long ago
Voxx town for a lot of things in his larger comeback post but also if he’s scum he’s gonna townside more than not so it’s fine.
ScarletCekestial no real idea, this is a true flip flop read where sometimes I think hard they’re a villager and other times I think they’re wolfy. Right now I think they’re null lol.
Titus I might have to rethink my approach on
Where is Tammy too
Why does one post asking for RTI if they only want to talk to one person? And besides, why does she ONLY want to talk to you? Why is she not expressing that? That seems like strange behavior.
I voted because I'm scumreading her, and would probably still be willing to lynch. But I don't like the current wagon on her, since I'm currently at no better than neutral on Voxx and at a scumlean on you. I guess it's overall kinda an equal opportunity wagon, but I also don't like that you're hedging your bets while remaining on the wagon. Sounds like it could be the beginning of scum stepping off of a buddy, though, so...
Vote: Ara
@Empoof: Your only solid read is... town!Marko? town!Ara? town!Tammy? town!RE You're so hedgy that it's not clear who you even are solidly reading as either town or scum.
I guess I didn't make it clear enough. POE for me at this point in time:
[Ara, Empoof] > [Grape, Voxx] > [Celeste, Marko] > [RE, Titus, Troba] > [Tubba] > [Tammy]
RE dropped down a bit when I started tinfoiling more.
Tubba went up significantly with the talk on Ara and some other bits here and there.
Celeste went up a bit after parts of recent interactions.
Marko went up a bit due to actually posting and thinking about the game.
Now, what are your reads assuming I am town?
Man. Have you actually read her ISO in full lately? All 3 members of my team agree that it's a case of 'doesn't care about the answers to the questions she is asking'. That fits how you describe her wolf play completely in the bolded, blue sections highlighted.
I get that there's mitigating factors for activity, energy, etc - she's busy with things that are more time sensitive. But that doesn't explain the disconnect between words and actions she's displayed this game. I still can't shake her entrance to the thread - expressing excitement and desire to play, but then not engaging with the stuff that's happening at that point in game doesn't resonate me as being Town!Ara. The questions she asks, the stuff she's doing feels like posting for the sake of being seen posting, and being seen trying to scum hunt - I just haven't seen a baseline of critical insight or nuance to anything she's asked people like she genuinely cares about the answer, or that the answer is going to be useful to her in terms of figuring out alignments.
Elaborate on this, if you could please.
I don't really think there was much in that post that was alignment indicative for me, it was just kind of using the thread to dump some thoughts and see where I'm at in a macro sense.
Reminder for folks for day ending in ~24 hours, and for the...voting thing. Not sure how relevant it is, most people will be voting, but yeah. Crunch time, gonna need to look at the wagons and make your calls.
Gonna dive into Grape's ISO a bit myself now.
Grapefruit21 - 2 (Scarlet Rage, Trobairitz)
RE1031 - 1 (Grapefruit21)
Foopme - 1 (MarkoRaj)
Scarlet Rage - 1 (Arapocalypse)
osieorb18 - 1 (RE1031)
Not Voting - 2 (Tubba Fett, ScarletCelestial)
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends at 14:30 Eastern Time on August 1st unless there is a majority lynch.
This is another friendly reminder that the deadline is in ~24 hours.
Trobairitz has been prodded.
If Trobairitz and Grapefruit21 do not post content before the deadline, they will be counted as not voting for deadline lynch purposes.
Problems with this vote count? PM me or DM me on Discord for the fastest response. Posting something in-thread will probably get my attention eventually.
I don't actually think I explained how someone might read the interaction as T/T. I explained why nobody wanted to look at it (because it was severe), but those aren't the qualifications to be T/T.
About Vox's question - is it against the rules? ScarletC already brought up a post her teammates linked on Tammy (but apparently it wasn't actually from Tammy). And Osie has given his experience with everyone playing in Team Mafia.
Example: In a 13er cop game I was in, a vanilla red checked scum, but earlier n0'd scum. We came very close to lynching the scum the vanilla "red checked," but the scum's reaction was very pure - he knew that the vanilla was lying. I assumed that meant he was town, but I didn't make the connection in time that all it meant was he knew the vanilla was lying, because he already gave a green check on another scum.
A little more explanation, please?
You were at top town, but I was concerned that was an overestimate of your posts, especially with more recent posts seeming less productive overall. As I said, tinfoiling some worlds where you're not town, but overall you're still at least neutral. I need to go through your ISO again and see if what I thought I saw was real or not.
Vote Scarlet Rage
Deadline is tomorrow though I know, so I'm at least going to try to get out my team's thoughts and my earlier thoughts in case I die tonight, but it's gonna have to be in just little snippets here and there, and I'll try to get as much down as possible before deadline tomorrow. I doubt very seriously i'll be able to do any in depth reading of anything and I'm not caught up and doubt I will be.
I gave my/my team thoughts on Ara earlier and I don't have any updated thoughts about her, and unfortunately I doubt very seriously I'm going to actually be able to suss out if there's anything alignment indicative about her responses and posts here today. I'll check other people's responses about her posts today, but not sure where I want to move my vote if I do need/want to. Kinda skimmed some of the responses to/about Voxx and I'm not totally sure how I feel about the responses.
As far as Voxx is concerned though, he's a bit of a conundrum this game, mostly due to lack of posting. I don't hate his read on Ara, saw his response to empoof I think who thought ara looked a little villager? And yeah I dunno. Tonally he sounds fine and my entire team liked his earlier posts tonally at times. I didn't like the post where he said he was going to be low effort and then kill someone at the end of day one that looked the worst. My team pointed out the several times he mentioned being low effort and didn't much like that. My thing was the kill someone bit; it's the type of phrase that always bugs me because it's the type of phrase scum use a lot out of puffery. Town do it to sometimes, especially players that think highly of their scum hunting skills, so yeah still bugged me a bit. There were a few other little things that bugged me like the early response about RE I asked and the artificial content thing. So just some little things here and there that if he's town here would have been drowned out by other townie things, but since he hasn't really been posting and gotten into the game, those little things still linger.
My team doesn't like post 47. They think there were other things to pick up on by that point, and even if he's taking it easy and going low effort that there's a couple other things that would have naturally just caught his eye to comment on. There's also the concern about RE, who my team thinks is obviously town and is concerned that he/his team doesn't recognize that. This last one is a team thought I don't really share. I don't know Voxx well enough to call him out for not town reading someone I'm town reading. I think that tell in particular is somewhat weak because people see different things, and unless you know what they in particular read town/scum and why then well I've been burned more than once for that kind of thinking. I would like to know what he's been side-eyeing with RE though because I've had her pretty solidly town all day. Think there are some posts that raise my eyebrows, but also think they get explained away by relative lack of experience in the game. (I did have concerns that his response to my question early game about RE was indicative of some early distancing, I don't really believe that anymore, but yeah that was an early game tinfoil.)
I think it was markoraj who pointed out that people shouldn't be town reading him for what he's posted so far, and he's right. I do hope he's town, and I'd never vote for him today when all I have are these little niggles and not an actual scumread when it's also likely that he just hasn't had a chance to get in to the game. But if Ara does flip scum, do not just give him a game pass because from what I understand he does like to bus. If he is town with really good reads, that should be pretty clear once he starts delving into the game.
RE is a town read my entire team shares. I've just liked most of her posts for town, didn't too much like some of the response to the SC/Osie spat. While I understand worrying about scum theater, the whole getting after Osie for having a natural human reaction to someone seeming like they don't want to play with you was just huh? So the way she went about the interaction I didn't like much but it's probably indicative of misunderstanding behavior rather than being alignment indicative. IDK, really interested in why Voxx team is giving side-eyes though. Couple solid takeaways of what my team likes: RE's opening, interaction with Trob at the beginning of the game, breaking down her problems with SC's questions to grapefruit, her paranoid concern about grape's push and theory that develops from that on page six.
Okay need to step away. I'll try to be back in a bit with a couple more thoughts.
Vote Foopme
Sometimes it's just that obvious...
My read on Titus *was* that on a baseline her tone is fine and I think she sufficiently showed herself as having no partners that I considered viable. But that's lazy writing. My approach was to avoid reading her and give the read i just gave. I don't really know how that went. We're gonna **** around for a bit instead since that's more thrilling writing.
Give me the short version of why you're so aggressively against Titus and Voxx. And if we lynched osie or grapefruit would you mind?
Huh. Haven't had scum threaten to NK me when I voted for them... That's a new one.
Tell me why I'm scum boyo. Having wishywashy reads isn't a good reason.
Ara this isn't how you real time
Fine, let's go.
Ara, the wagonomics suggest you Scarlet Empoof have at least one scum. I need a new vc though.
What caused me to vote for you was the abrupt, unexplained vote change to an objectively townier player, as if you had gotten the cue from a buddy in a scum chat.
My reads on Osie and Scarlet aren't solely based on that interaction. It just helped me see their alignments. A couple things stood out to me prior that bugged me. ScarletC sheeping several of my observations/reads (Tubba, Grape/Ara) team, for example.
Gun to head scum team is Osie/ScarletC/Vox. Might have put Ara in there instead of Vox but Osie's voting there and Scarlet and Ara don't seem aligned based on the attention she's given Ara instead of Vox. Grape I wanted to be scum but... I think something else besides alignment might be a factor in why he seems scummy to me, and it would explain why Scarlet and Osie were so hesitant to scumread him because they knew his lurkiness was NAI.