KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Up to you Dels, I'll move if you want to go shadow.
i don't know.
a hunger lynch is what i wanted for most of the day but after the last few days i changed my mind a bit and accepted that we were probably going to lynch shadow.
i don't think the team is shadow/sheep, so it still makes sense to vote hunger here, but... ugh.
ye
it feels gamestate/big picture correct to vote hunger still
i would feel like ***** if i lynched hunger here and the team was shadow/sheep and hunger spent the whole day trying to prove it and then i voted him while he wasn't even here
Up to you Dels, I'll move if you want to go shadow.
i don't know.
a hunger lynch is what i wanted for most of the day but after the last few days i changed my mind a bit and accepted that we were probably going to lynch shadow.
i don't think the team is shadow/sheep, so it still makes sense to vote hunger here, but... ugh.
ye
it feels gamestate/big picture correct to vote hunger still
i would feel like ***** if i lynched hunger here and the team was shadow/sheep and hunger spent the whole day trying to prove it and then i voted him while he wasn't even here
i feel you
i don't think him not being here now should matter, even though that might be uncomfortable
he had most of the day to post and attempt to do that and he did so
i honestly thought for the entire afternoon that i was going to vote shadow, and especially after the last half hour i was pretty sure of it and then i got ******* nervous and paniced
i don't think this is the wrong choice. i think you're right, it's the most logical.
i honestly thought for the entire afternoon that i was going to vote shadow, and especially after the last half hour i was pretty sure of it and then i got ******* nervous and paniced
i don't think this is the wrong choice. i think you're right, it's the most logical.
i think it's right
and this is going to sound weird but i think it's still right even if he is somehow a villager? like if that's the case i think it's beneficial to know, asap, worlds without him are significantly weirder than a world without shadow, time to process that is good.
and this is going to sound weird but i think it's still right even if he is somehow a villager? like if that's the case i think it's beneficial to know, asap, worlds without him are significantly weirder than a world without shadow, time to process that is good.
but i'm pretty sure he's just going to flip wolf
if it's wrong, the same thing i said to shadow applies, which is that we're probably still going to win. i'll just feel awful about it.
but if hunger flips town i'm absolutely going to drill my team on the vaimes thing and make 100% certain that we're definitely not getting anything wrong.
and this is going to sound weird but i think it's still right even if he is somehow a villager? like if that's the case i think it's beneficial to know, asap, worlds without him are significantly weirder than a world without shadow, time to process that is good.
but i'm pretty sure he's just going to flip wolf
if it's wrong, the same thing i said to shadow applies, which is that we're probably still going to win. i'll just feel awful about it.
but if hunger flips town i'm absolutely going to drill my team on the vaimes thing and make 100% certain that we're definitely not getting anything wrong.
yeah i think our equity is still very good regardless, but the alternate answer definitely feels more straightforward in the world where shadow is a villager than the one where hunger is
definitely would want that to happen with vaimes read in a hunger v world because in said world i do start to have concerns in that respect
i don't think i'm going to die, but just in case i do:
- I know that shadow is probably still scum. But really think about it. Look at the hunger/sheep stuff, see if that world makes sense, because it really really does. If shadow is town, then it's still my job to save him, so just ask yourself if his behaviour today was really scummy or if he just... posted less words because he had less time to play, wasn't as motivated, and had a clear idea of what the team is. If hunger is scum, then yes, it's probably bussing, but it could also be that shadow had the proper PoV and was just right.
- think about sheep and his multiple derpclears. I honestly think they make sheep look like town. But I don't think it's ruled out that he could just be totally oblivious scum and I don't want my legacy to be that i was certain about it.
- I will ask my team about vaimes tomorrow if somehow hunger flips town, but as of now, yes, they still think he is town. we spoke about it a bit over the weekend and they feel the way vaimes was openminded and working today is towny, and I agree. vaimes was on hunger most of the day but the way he unvoted hunger after hunger's big post alligned with my own feelings and makes sense, plus the way he treated shadow. also, vaimes, after that hunger post, said that I could be scum, and my team thinks he didn't need to do that if he was scum. if vaimes is scum he could get a mislynch today without needing to do that, AND, my team says, it'd be a bad play because then he'd be risking pissing me/my team off for no reason when he's in a good position, which he wouldn't do.
Final Day 3 Vote Count Hunger - 4 (shadowlancerx, Lissa, Killjoy, Dels_8)
shadowlancerx - 2 (sheepsaysmeep, Vaimes)
Not Voting - 1 (Hunger)
Through the hubbub and rising din, the sound of a piece of paper slapping onto a table wouldn't be expected to draw much notice. Nor the accompanying verbal flourish. But the reading of the note silences the room.
Josef Vissarionovich Stalin, you have betrayed our nation and destroyed its people. I pray for your end and ask the Lord to forgive you. Tyrant.
Breaking the room's spell, the producer of this damning missive accosts Hunger:
"Maria Yudina, do you deny that these words of disrespect and untruth are your hand?"
Hunger trembles before the group, but brings herself to her feet. Resolute. Defiant.
"I do not deny that this is my hand, but I deny that they are lies. Every word is real and true, and we as a people are better off with the death of Stalin, may God have mercy upon his revolting soul."
Surely, these can only be the words of the worst kind of traitor. While many may privately (very privately) think such things, to honestly and openly denounce the Great Leader - in a letter directly addressed to him? Surely there exists no heart pure nor brave enough.
Perhaps there isn't. Not any more.
Hunger has been lynched. He was Maria Yudina - Pianist, Town Vanilla
Maria Yudina - Pianist
Town Vanilla
A talented pianist with a deep loathing of Stalin, you were galled at being required to repeat a live performance so it could be recorded for the man who had your family and friends killed.
You never expected to be involved in a political firestorm, but unfortunately the note you wrote to Stalin to accompany your recording was found on his corpse. Although this was grimly satisfying, it has embroiled you in the fight for power as a pawn and leverage against politicians you knew. You are to play at Stalin’s funeral, but your greatest performance will be to escape this conspiracy with your life intact.
It is now Night 3, which will end in 72 hours at 2200BST on Thursday 6th September. Please do not post in thread.
The Politburo, or what’s left of it, files into the committee room.
You are running out of comrades.
Worse, you are running out of coffee.
You instinctively wince at the expectation of a grating, unpleasant noise - but it doesn’t come. You look around and work it out. Vasily Stalin, the drunken oaf, isn’t here. You breathe a sigh of relief: perhaps today you won’t have to hear how bored he is, or how he’d much rather be playing ice hockey, or how many of the others he could take in a fight if he wanted to, or how bored he is.
Of course, his absence can only really mean one thing.
Lissa has been killed. They were Vasily Stalin - Son of Stalin - Town Vanilla
"Every cloud (of death) has a silver lining" you suppose as you surreptitiously slide his coffee ration in front of you. Prising the lid off, you discover that he had replaced it with vodka. That dog.
Vasily Stalin - Son of Stalin
Vanilla Town
People would describe you as a short-fused, reckless drunk. You prefer to think of yourself as a pilot, ice-hockey enthusiast, and all-around fun guy. The kind of fun-loving guy who can very easily have people killed who call him nasty things.
Your father’s death comes as a shock, which makes the vodka medicinal. Despite being utterly uninterested in politics, you have become an important piece in the game of succession. You are mostly concerned with getting through it unscathed and getting back to coaching the USSR air force hockey team, but you must work together with those odious minions to remove the conspiracy threatening your father’s achievements - and you by extension.
It is now Day 4. The deadline is 2200BST on Thursday 20th September.
I've gone through a lot of feelings the past few days.
I feel bad about the lynch. I should have voted Shadow. But I don't feel as bad as I could, because I honestly don't think anything would have changed my mind - if we had lynched Shadow yesterday and (presumably) flipped scum, I probably would've wanted Hunger dead the next day. That's not an admission of laziness or inability to change my mind, it's just... I was incorrectly clearing sheep, and I don't think I would've gotten there.
And I don't disagree with the logic I had. I didn't think Shadow/Sheep were aligned, so Hunger made the most sense. In retrospect, I think Shadow is just a better scum than I give him credit for - the sheep vote the other day was probably a well-timed bus, and I don't know why I didn't think he'd do it. My reasoning was likely right - he did it because he figured sheep was gonna die anyway, and Hunger wouldn't be the lynch, so he moved it for distancing. Either way, the ultimate point is I got it wrong, so... sorry.
As you can tell from how I'm speaking, I'm coming in to this day with the assumption that the team is Shadow/Sheep. It's going to be very, very hard for me to vote anyone but Shadow today.
I think it's really easy after ******* up and getting a town flip to listen to the part of your brain that says "You ****ed it all up, reeavaluate everything, you know nothing, maybe Vaimes is scum, maybe it's Lissa, omg what if it's KJ, you're wrong about everything". I admit that was my first reaction. That said, the other part of your mind says "No, just because you got one thing in your PoE wrong, doesn't mean the rest is." If you asked me during day 3, I'd have said "It's 2 out of 3 of Hunger/Sheep/Shadow". Well, I did say that. A town flip, logically, shouldn't change that, but obviously it's easy to freak out and forget that.
Ultimately, the reason I stick with my team guess isn't because of being swayed by either of those things, it's because... Vaimes probably just isn't scum. So this isn't that complicated, theoretically. That said, I'll make sure to fully reevaluate it as much as I can, and consult with my team, I'm not going to lock it in, because, well, that'd be bad play.
A question, just for the sake of being absolutely certain:
There's NO WAY that KJ is scum, right? Scum doesn't have a 1-shot extra kill or something, right? I don't think so but I just want to make 100% certain we all agree on that since it's lylo, so we can get that out of the way.
Besides that... I don't know. What are people's plans/mindsets going in to today?
I’m writing this overnight, so disregard the parts about whoever gets killed (probably KJ). I spent some time talking to my team here and considering if it was even worth the effort at this point. With everything going on, they both conceded that it probably wasn’t and the game was basically over. While they’re probably right, I just can’t accept that. So here we go, this is my plea.
I am sorry for phoning this game in, it couldn’t be helped, but I can’t help but feel like I could have seen the forest through the trees if I’d been truly paying attention and present for this game. Hunger/Rhand and I were set up from the beginning of the game to be a false dichotomy. It’s why neither of us were lynched sooner, it’s why we are where we are now. But I’m not going to roll over and take this. I refuse to let this game go down on my shoulders, not without a fight.
~~~~~
Lissa is just locktown.
I'm not going to dress this up, I’ve thought Lissa was townie all game, but the linchpin is...well Nancy and Lissa are never buddies.
Ride or die on this read.
My team seems to think there’s like a .1% chance that KJ could be scum, but having just run a game that had a scum vig, you’ve got to balance correctly for it, and this game isn’t balanced for it.
Ride or die on KJ as well.
I will never lynch Vaimes before Dels. The only world that Vaimes is scum is one where Dels and team have propped him up and coached him, but I’ve seen that team talk at points about how they would bus the balls off of Vaimes if they were buddies, and I’m inclined to buy that.
Town, and never lynching before a Dels scum flip.
~~Scum~~
Sheep is only town in a Dels/Vaimes world.
Sheep has played to a t exactly like I’d expect him to play as scum. I think he stumbled into the town free he got early, and has basically used that as a prop all game.
He also fits super well on a team with Dels, he’s got a bunch of lines like:
"dels wim is so towny"
"dels is probably town here just by how much wim he has"
It’s a one dimensional read where he found a focus and keeps regurgitating it back so that he doesn’t have to give a real read.
Dels is like, always just scum here. I had to come to terms with this overnight, because gosh darn...the effort is just...well it’s basically Regfan from JPA2.
But there’s no way he’s not scum here. I don’t have a real case I can make, and if today is about me vs Dels so be it, I’ll answer any question, leave myself as much of an open book as I can, but I’m not confident we will get there. And that’s frustrating. I hate nailing scum to the wall and not being able to close it out, it’s one of the worst feelings ever, and it’s one of the reasons I love playing scum so much more than town.
But yeah, Dels is scum
thought experiment if anyone wants to: if vaimes WAS scum, who is he more likely to be with? shadow, or sheep? vaimes voted shadow yesterday, in a way that... imo looked pretty natural. not to mention, vaimes could very very easily have justified staying on hunger, but he didn't. on a mafia 101 level, vaimes is more likely to be with sheep than with shadow based on this. but i guess its the same situation as the shadow -> sheep vote where he could've made the decision to bus shadow, since shadow was clearly going to go down at some point?
i don't think there's any real connections between vaimes and sheep unless i'm forgetting anything. i'll take a look at some point.
that said, i'm unlikely to go down the "well if vaimes is scum, who is he more likely with" path since that's what i tried to do yesterday and it didn't work. i don't think that methodology is wrong, necessarily, just because it failed once, but I just... I'd always want to lynch shadow before sheep here, just because i think shadow is definitely the scummier one.
You are right, from your point of view, it makes total sense to say the team is sheep/Dels.
I just don't think it's a point of view coming from a townie.
I guess I don't have to debate this with you because you'd "agree" with me that it's not KJ and it's not Vaimes. So, hey, we technically agree more than we disagree.
You say you've "nailed" the last scum, but you admit you don't even have a case to make.
You're acting like I'm some mastermind who engineered this "hunger/shadow dichotomy", but I never did that. I had you as town at first and Rhand as scum, and then I dropped you purely due to PoE, I was never the one who said anything like "one of the two must be scum". And sheep definitely didn't. So when you say you and Hungerhand were set up as a dichotomy by the scum... when did I do that? Just because I had both of you in my PoE and was conflicted about which was scum, doesn't make it a dichotomy. (Not on my end, at least) Hell, you (and Hunger) made it a dichotomy more than anyone else. (Which also reminds me that on day 2, I specifically said I wanted to lynch sheep before I wanted to lynch either you or Hunger, which proves that I WASN'T going for the dichotomy thing, AND that I wanted to lynch sheep that day)
I'd always want to lynch shadow before sheep here, just because i think shadow is definitely the scummier one.
Haha oh? Tell me more.
Though I don't quote it here, the rest of this post is Dels toying with a scum Vaimes world for no reason.
for no reason? it's lylo. there's absolutely no reason for me, in a 2-week day, to just lock things in and not at least try to reeavaluate. i literally said in both of my posts that I DON'T think it's vaimes, and that I have no intention of voting him today or even making any assumptions based on him being scum, and i said it's a thought exercise just in case.
also to answer your other question, the reason i'd vote you over sheep is because i've had more legit reasons to think you are scum throughout the game than sheep. i think your PoV during the latter half of day 2 was just weak, you weren't able to answer any questions in depth about why you were reading people the way you were. (granted, sheep hasn't either, but, y'know, the bar is at different levels) i gave it a pass because i thought a) that's just how you play and b) you don't have time to do more, and both of those are probably true, especially b, but it doesn't change the fact that i was right to think your thoughts should have had more depth/reasoning there.
the reason I have even the tiniest bit of paranoia about vaimes/KJ is because I still feel like sheep's various derpclears and interactions with nancy are a good look, but i am assuming at this point that those were just real derps from a scum sheep who was following so little that he genuinely didn't know stuff, and the nancy interactions were just... awkward because of w/w instead of awkward because of w/v. that said, it's slightly more stuff in sheep's favor than yours, so if i'm lynching based on who is scummier, i go with you every time. and that's regardless of what you've said today.
i didn't really have any problems with what you yesterday, but i think you definitely played up the hunger stuff (which proves that you more than anyone else were creating that dichotomy), which in retrospect was probably because you wanted to play in to the theories of you and hunger being w/w together.
Both Hunger and I expressed worries that the other could be town, but no, this whole game has been one giant rolling snowball toward the conclusion that hunger and I were a dichotomy. And you saying you wanted to lynch sheep before us doesn’t actually help your point, especially in the (less likely) world where Vaimes is your partner, because that preserves your dichotomy. The longer a situation like me/hunger lingers in a game, the less likely people are to consider when one flips, because everyone has lived in this shared assumption for ages.
But like...yeah, I’ve nailed you as scum because there is literally no world where you’re town; I don’t need a case for that to be true.
But I’m not exactly going to convince you that you’re scum. Frankly, we’ll played, but one way or another, this game is over for you.
You did, and it seemed really weird on both of your ends because you both expressed it but then you both kept going on anyway. I stand by my claim that you pushed for the hunger/shadow thing the most, because you came in to yesterday basically saying it had to be you or him. (Or am I remembering wrong) I had both of you in PoE, but a dichotomy means specifically saying "1 of the 2 must be scum" due to those two people's relationship, not just "well by PoE, one of them should be scum"
That said, I guess you're right that if I was trying to force that dichotomy, I'd vote sheep to leave you both alive. So your reasoning is not wrong.
I'd define nailed as, like, proven, but that's okay.
I'm not going to convince you either but I'm not gonna let you paint me as scum. I think you played well too - I really thought you were town for the longest time, I think you did well yesterday in giving me what I wanted which was to stick to the obvious PoV to have with the gamestate, and I incorrectly thought that was the townier PoV, compared to Hunger who was looking everywhere. Ultimately, it just comes down to KJ and Vaimes being town, so I don't think you've been super scummy or anything, but, you are almost certainly scum.
And if we are both town somehow, then lol, we will look back at this and laugh.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
If one of sheep or KJ are fakeclaiming or scum PRs, we probably always lose this game, so might as well give them the opportunity to end it or eliminate that world.
I do acknowledge that I probably really shouldn't be snapvoting in LyLo, especially after I voted impulsively in shadow's game and helped the scumteam win, but.
I'm town, and half of the other players are claimed PRs that fit very neatly/classically together. Offensive, defensive, and information.
blah blah fifth post not sorry because I'm in a good mood and it deserves to be shared, if it warrants a warning then so be it
This game is pretty much in sheep's and KJ's hands now.
@KJ @sheep
I suggest you talk to me, given that 1) I'm town, 2) both living scum have spewed me clear, and 3) if you try to talk to either of them, they're going to wallpost, and I'm even more over what they have to say now that they're confirmed mafia fmpov.
Decent chance that a team with Dels on it takes the unconventional NK route.
I...don’t really think a shadow/sheep team thinks they can win against Dels.
Team can only reasonably be Dels/sheep or Dels/shadow.
Hi Dels.
WTF are you saying!
what does the nightkill have to do with anything?!
the team is sheep/shadow and they'd be in trouble no matter who they killed! what difference does it make if they think they can "win against" me or not, iwas never the kill, it was only ever lissa or KJ!
and yes i'm quadruple posting because either the game is about to end if the scum are online or it's worth it
VAIMES, UNVOTE.
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ye
it feels gamestate/big picture correct to vote hunger still
you're not wrong
oh **** i thought there were more minutes i was talking to my team
i don't think him not being here now should matter, even though that might be uncomfortable
he had most of the day to post and attempt to do that and he did so
I have to listen to my gut
I thought Shadow was town for so long and I thought Hunger was scum (or rhand) for almost the entire game
hunger has done some good things today but i still feel like my points there are valid and he is scum
and it logically makes more sense because shadow/sheep is not the team and hunger/sheep could be
i'm so sorry if this is wrong hunger
Vote: Hunger
if you want me to move to shadow tell me like, asap.
i honestly thought for the entire afternoon that i was going to vote shadow, and especially after the last half hour i was pretty sure of it and then i got ******* nervous and paniced
i don't think this is the wrong choice. i think you're right, it's the most logical.
my heart is ******* racing
and this is going to sound weird but i think it's still right even if he is somehow a villager? like if that's the case i think it's beneficial to know, asap, worlds without him are significantly weirder than a world without shadow, time to process that is good.
but i'm pretty sure he's just going to flip wolf
i've been ready to end day for a good week and a half what's a few more hours
i don't think i'm going to play a 2-week game again.
2 weeks of "lynch either of them i don't care" followed by getting to the last 10 minutes and realizing i somehow still have no clue what i want
if it's wrong, the same thing i said to shadow applies, which is that we're probably still going to win. i'll just feel awful about it.
but if hunger flips town i'm absolutely going to drill my team on the vaimes thing and make 100% certain that we're definitely not getting anything wrong.
definitely would want that to happen with vaimes read in a hunger v world because in said world i do start to have concerns in that respect
- I know that shadow is probably still scum. But really think about it. Look at the hunger/sheep stuff, see if that world makes sense, because it really really does. If shadow is town, then it's still my job to save him, so just ask yourself if his behaviour today was really scummy or if he just... posted less words because he had less time to play, wasn't as motivated, and had a clear idea of what the team is. If hunger is scum, then yes, it's probably bussing, but it could also be that shadow had the proper PoV and was just right.
- think about sheep and his multiple derpclears. I honestly think they make sheep look like town. But I don't think it's ruled out that he could just be totally oblivious scum and I don't want my legacy to be that i was certain about it.
- I will ask my team about vaimes tomorrow if somehow hunger flips town, but as of now, yes, they still think he is town. we spoke about it a bit over the weekend and they feel the way vaimes was openminded and working today is towny, and I agree. vaimes was on hunger most of the day but the way he unvoted hunger after hunger's big post alligned with my own feelings and makes sense, plus the way he treated shadow. also, vaimes, after that hunger post, said that I could be scum, and my team thinks he didn't need to do that if he was scum. if vaimes is scum he could get a mislynch today without needing to do that, AND, my team says, it'd be a bad play because then he'd be risking pissing me/my team off for no reason when he's in a good position, which he wouldn't do.
Hunger - 4 (shadowlancerx, Lissa, Killjoy, Dels_8)
shadowlancerx - 2 (sheepsaysmeep, Vaimes)
Not Voting - 1 (Hunger)
Through the hubbub and rising din, the sound of a piece of paper slapping onto a table wouldn't be expected to draw much notice. Nor the accompanying verbal flourish. But the reading of the note silences the room.
Breaking the room's spell, the producer of this damning missive accosts Hunger:
"Maria Yudina, do you deny that these words of disrespect and untruth are your hand?"
Hunger trembles before the group, but brings herself to her feet. Resolute. Defiant.
"I do not deny that this is my hand, but I deny that they are lies. Every word is real and true, and we as a people are better off with the death of Stalin, may God have mercy upon his revolting soul."
Surely, these can only be the words of the worst kind of traitor. While many may privately (very privately) think such things, to honestly and openly denounce the Great Leader - in a letter directly addressed to him? Surely there exists no heart pure nor brave enough.
Perhaps there isn't. Not any more.
Hunger has been lynched. He was Maria Yudina - Pianist, Town Vanilla
Maria Yudina - Pianist
Town Vanilla
A talented pianist with a deep loathing of Stalin, you were galled at being required to repeat a live performance so it could be recorded for the man who had your family and friends killed.
You never expected to be involved in a political firestorm, but unfortunately the note you wrote to Stalin to accompany your recording was found on his corpse. Although this was grimly satisfying, it has embroiled you in the fight for power as a pawn and leverage against politicians you knew. You are to play at Stalin’s funeral, but your greatest performance will be to escape this conspiracy with your life intact.
It is now Night 3, which will end in 72 hours at 2200BST on Thursday 6th September. Please do not post in thread.
The Politburo, or what’s left of it, files into the committee room.
You are running out of comrades.
Worse, you are running out of coffee.
You instinctively wince at the expectation of a grating, unpleasant noise - but it doesn’t come. You look around and work it out. Vasily Stalin, the drunken oaf, isn’t here. You breathe a sigh of relief: perhaps today you won’t have to hear how bored he is, or how he’d much rather be playing ice hockey, or how many of the others he could take in a fight if he wanted to, or how bored he is.
Of course, his absence can only really mean one thing.
Lissa has been killed. They were Vasily Stalin - Son of Stalin - Town Vanilla
"Every cloud (of death) has a silver lining" you suppose as you surreptitiously slide his coffee ration in front of you. Prising the lid off, you discover that he had replaced it with vodka. That dog.
Vasily Stalin - Son of Stalin
Vanilla Town
People would describe you as a short-fused, reckless drunk. You prefer to think of yourself as a pilot, ice-hockey enthusiast, and all-around fun guy. The kind of fun-loving guy who can very easily have people killed who call him nasty things.
Your father’s death comes as a shock, which makes the vodka medicinal. Despite being utterly uninterested in politics, you have become an important piece in the game of succession. You are mostly concerned with getting through it unscathed and getting back to coaching the USSR air force hockey team, but you must work together with those odious minions to remove the conspiracy threatening your father’s achievements - and you by extension.
It is now Day 4. The deadline is 2200BST on Thursday 20th September.
With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch.
I feel bad about the lynch. I should have voted Shadow. But I don't feel as bad as I could, because I honestly don't think anything would have changed my mind - if we had lynched Shadow yesterday and (presumably) flipped scum, I probably would've wanted Hunger dead the next day. That's not an admission of laziness or inability to change my mind, it's just... I was incorrectly clearing sheep, and I don't think I would've gotten there.
And I don't disagree with the logic I had. I didn't think Shadow/Sheep were aligned, so Hunger made the most sense. In retrospect, I think Shadow is just a better scum than I give him credit for - the sheep vote the other day was probably a well-timed bus, and I don't know why I didn't think he'd do it. My reasoning was likely right - he did it because he figured sheep was gonna die anyway, and Hunger wouldn't be the lynch, so he moved it for distancing. Either way, the ultimate point is I got it wrong, so... sorry.
As you can tell from how I'm speaking, I'm coming in to this day with the assumption that the team is Shadow/Sheep. It's going to be very, very hard for me to vote anyone but Shadow today.
I think it's really easy after ******* up and getting a town flip to listen to the part of your brain that says "You ****ed it all up, reeavaluate everything, you know nothing, maybe Vaimes is scum, maybe it's Lissa, omg what if it's KJ, you're wrong about everything". I admit that was my first reaction. That said, the other part of your mind says "No, just because you got one thing in your PoE wrong, doesn't mean the rest is." If you asked me during day 3, I'd have said "It's 2 out of 3 of Hunger/Sheep/Shadow". Well, I did say that. A town flip, logically, shouldn't change that, but obviously it's easy to freak out and forget that.
Ultimately, the reason I stick with my team guess isn't because of being swayed by either of those things, it's because... Vaimes probably just isn't scum. So this isn't that complicated, theoretically. That said, I'll make sure to fully reevaluate it as much as I can, and consult with my team, I'm not going to lock it in, because, well, that'd be bad play.
A question, just for the sake of being absolutely certain:
There's NO WAY that KJ is scum, right? Scum doesn't have a 1-shot extra kill or something, right? I don't think so but I just want to make 100% certain we all agree on that since it's lylo, so we can get that out of the way.
Besides that... I don't know. What are people's plans/mindsets going in to today?
I am sorry for phoning this game in, it couldn’t be helped, but I can’t help but feel like I could have seen the forest through the trees if I’d been truly paying attention and present for this game. Hunger/Rhand and I were set up from the beginning of the game to be a false dichotomy. It’s why neither of us were lynched sooner, it’s why we are where we are now. But I’m not going to roll over and take this. I refuse to let this game go down on my shoulders, not without a fight.
~~~~~
Lissa is just locktown.
I'm not going to dress this up, I’ve thought Lissa was townie all game, but the linchpin is...well Nancy and Lissa are never buddies.
Ride or die on this read.
My team seems to think there’s like a .1% chance that KJ could be scum, but having just run a game that had a scum vig, you’ve got to balance correctly for it, and this game isn’t balanced for it.
Ride or die on KJ as well.
I will never lynch Vaimes before Dels. The only world that Vaimes is scum is one where Dels and team have propped him up and coached him, but I’ve seen that team talk at points about how they would bus the balls off of Vaimes if they were buddies, and I’m inclined to buy that.
Town, and never lynching before a Dels scum flip.
~~Scum~~
Sheep is only town in a Dels/Vaimes world.
Sheep has played to a t exactly like I’d expect him to play as scum. I think he stumbled into the town free he got early, and has basically used that as a prop all game.
He also fits super well on a team with Dels, he’s got a bunch of lines like:
"dels wim is so towny"
"dels is probably town here just by how much wim he has"
It’s a one dimensional read where he found a focus and keeps regurgitating it back so that he doesn’t have to give a real read.
Dels is like, always just scum here. I had to come to terms with this overnight, because gosh darn...the effort is just...well it’s basically Regfan from JPA2.
But there’s no way he’s not scum here. I don’t have a real case I can make, and if today is about me vs Dels so be it, I’ll answer any question, leave myself as much of an open book as I can, but I’m not confident we will get there. And that’s frustrating. I hate nailing scum to the wall and not being able to close it out, it’s one of the worst feelings ever, and it’s one of the reasons I love playing scum so much more than town.
But yeah, Dels is scum
And his buddy is probably just sheep.
~~~~~
I don’t see voting anyone but Dels today.
I really should have expected that, but wow. That’s one way to get ninja’d.
i don't think there's any real connections between vaimes and sheep unless i'm forgetting anything. i'll take a look at some point.
that said, i'm unlikely to go down the "well if vaimes is scum, who is he more likely with" path since that's what i tried to do yesterday and it didn't work. i don't think that methodology is wrong, necessarily, just because it failed once, but I just... I'd always want to lynch shadow before sheep here, just because i think shadow is definitely the scummier one.
Though I don't quote it here, the rest of this post is Dels toying with a scum Vaimes world for no reason.
You are right, from your point of view, it makes total sense to say the team is sheep/Dels.
I just don't think it's a point of view coming from a townie.
I guess I don't have to debate this with you because you'd "agree" with me that it's not KJ and it's not Vaimes. So, hey, we technically agree more than we disagree.
You say you've "nailed" the last scum, but you admit you don't even have a case to make.
You're acting like I'm some mastermind who engineered this "hunger/shadow dichotomy", but I never did that. I had you as town at first and Rhand as scum, and then I dropped you purely due to PoE, I was never the one who said anything like "one of the two must be scum". And sheep definitely didn't. So when you say you and Hungerhand were set up as a dichotomy by the scum... when did I do that? Just because I had both of you in my PoE and was conflicted about which was scum, doesn't make it a dichotomy. (Not on my end, at least) Hell, you (and Hunger) made it a dichotomy more than anyone else. (Which also reminds me that on day 2, I specifically said I wanted to lynch sheep before I wanted to lynch either you or Hunger, which proves that I WASN'T going for the dichotomy thing, AND that I wanted to lynch sheep that day)
for no reason? it's lylo. there's absolutely no reason for me, in a 2-week day, to just lock things in and not at least try to reeavaluate. i literally said in both of my posts that I DON'T think it's vaimes, and that I have no intention of voting him today or even making any assumptions based on him being scum, and i said it's a thought exercise just in case.
the reason I have even the tiniest bit of paranoia about vaimes/KJ is because I still feel like sheep's various derpclears and interactions with nancy are a good look, but i am assuming at this point that those were just real derps from a scum sheep who was following so little that he genuinely didn't know stuff, and the nancy interactions were just... awkward because of w/w instead of awkward because of w/v. that said, it's slightly more stuff in sheep's favor than yours, so if i'm lynching based on who is scummier, i go with you every time. and that's regardless of what you've said today.
i didn't really have any problems with what you yesterday, but i think you definitely played up the hunger stuff (which proves that you more than anyone else were creating that dichotomy), which in retrospect was probably because you wanted to play in to the theories of you and hunger being w/w together.
But like...yeah, I’ve nailed you as scum because there is literally no world where you’re town; I don’t need a case for that to be true.
But I’m not exactly going to convince you that you’re scum. Frankly, we’ll played, but one way or another, this game is over for you.
That said, I guess you're right that if I was trying to force that dichotomy, I'd vote sheep to leave you both alive. So your reasoning is not wrong.
I'd define nailed as, like, proven, but that's okay.
I'm not going to convince you either but I'm not gonna let you paint me as scum. I think you played well too - I really thought you were town for the longest time, I think you did well yesterday in giving me what I wanted which was to stick to the obvious PoV to have with the gamestate, and I incorrectly thought that was the townier PoV, compared to Hunger who was looking everywhere. Ultimately, it just comes down to KJ and Vaimes being town, so I don't think you've been super scummy or anything, but, you are almost certainly scum.
And if we are both town somehow, then lol, we will look back at this and laugh.
I trust way too many people in this game.
I'm having feelings about Vaimes. And I think Dels?
1) Gross.
2) lol
3) That Hunger lynch was garbage. Voxx/Newcomb condone it precisely never.
4) I hate this game.
5) KJ, you’v dome even less than me. That is atrocious. Let’s both stop being limp noodles, please and thanks.
6) The last town PR, if any, will be claiming in their next post. I am VT.
But it’s over so maybe I can focus and be more invested just in time for another ******* LyLo.
Decent chance that a team with Dels on it takes the unconventional NK route.
I...don’t really think a shadow/sheep team thinks they can win against Dels.
Team can only reasonably be Dels/sheep or Dels/shadow.
Hi Dels.
****me
i guess i should hardclaim in lylo
im a town doctor
-protected lissa n1
-there was no n2
-protected killjoy n3
will have time for this later
Sweet.
Of course, we lose if this setup doesn't have a town protective role, but I think game is solved.
https://gph.is/1eezGa9
Vote Dels
If one of sheep or KJ are fakeclaiming or scum PRs, we probably always lose this game, so might as well give them the opportunity to end it or eliminate that world.
I'm town, and half of the other players are claimed PRs that fit very neatly/classically together. Offensive, defensive, and information.
So yeah. That's my case.
This game is pretty much in sheep's and KJ's hands now.
@KJ @sheep
I suggest you talk to me, given that 1) I'm town, 2) both living scum have spewed me clear, and 3) if you try to talk to either of them, they're going to wallpost, and I'm even more over what they have to say now that they're confirmed mafia fmpov.
sheep is not the doc, i'm the doc.
i saved gemma night 1 and kj night 3.
wtf are you saying "if sheep is fakeclaiming then we lose" jesus christ
they didn't!
i said they told me to lynch shadow! voting hunger was my decision.
Unvote
JUST IN CASE.
WTF are you saying!
what does the nightkill have to do with anything?!
the team is sheep/shadow and they'd be in trouble no matter who they killed! what difference does it make if they think they can "win against" me or not, iwas never the kill, it was only ever lissa or KJ!
and yes i'm quadruple posting because either the game is about to end if the scum are online or it's worth it
VAIMES, UNVOTE.