Will be getting around to this tomorrow, absolutely swamped today.
@Gemma - We can discuss LW then? I've got him as a weakish town read, agree/like a lot of the reasoning you've got on him, wasn't a huge fan of his "GTH scum team is X/X/X" pop in post though as a response to a lot of content & interactions between us in that it felt like a lazy/easy way for scum to try and maintain their reads/stances for the most part.
That would be nice. I'd like it if you went into as much detail as is reasonable when you have the chance tomorrow if that's okay? There's no hurry. I'm not saying "you have to give reads first", I just have a few fairly specific things that I'm looking at from him and I'd like to see if you pick up on them as well.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Hey sheep, Well. I’m thinking we probably both rolled town in this game. I’m also liking Latewhisper but since I don’t have any meta knowledge of them, I’ll have to wait and see. Gemma seems to be trying a bit too hard to prove she’s town but it’s maybe NAI. No actual scumreads yet.
This is a pretty wolfy post.
"Hey sheep, Well. I'm thinking we probably both rolled town in this game" is like... "how do you do fellow kids" city on the awkward scale. Also, there's "hedgy" and there's "completely empty hedging that is empty to the degree of utterly meaningless". I have an issue with the latter, which is what that post is.
This seems weird. People are like. Calling me scum but no one's willing to vote.
Who's weighed in. Lissa, Regfan, Gemma.
Gemma, Lissa, Regfan: What do you think of the other two? And do you agree with my assessment?
Old habits kinda die hard sometimes.
I don't really have any thoughts on either of the other two I haven't already expressed (and that already expressed is basically nothing) and I'm about to go to bed. It doesn't actually seem that weird to me from what I remember of their posting w/r/t you though.
Hey sheep, Well. I’m thinking we probably both rolled town in this game. I’m also liking Latewhisper but since I don’t have any meta knowledge of them, I’ll have to wait and see. Gemma seems to be trying a bit too hard to prove she’s town but it’s maybe NAI. No actual scumreads yet.
This is a pretty wolfy post.
"Hey sheep, Well. I'm thinking we probably both rolled town in this game" is like... "how do you do fellow kids" city on the awkward scale. Also, there's "hedgy" and there's "completely empty hedging that is empty to the degree of utterly meaningless". I have an issue with the latter, which is what that post is.
this was sort of my first impression so town points for lissa
I'd complain about being stuck in the slow game, because Im not getting much content to post about, and Im not good at starting conversations, still think Gemma is TMI, and that if not Gemma/Shadow/Regfan, then its Gemma/Regfan/X, or just Shadow/X/X.
Regfan We can discuss LW then?
I mean you can talk to me, I always caught up, feels weird that you choose to ask this question to the person who called you out for being scum...
I've got him as a weakish town read, agree/like a lot of the reasoning you've got on him, wasn't a huge fan of his "GTH scum team is X/X/X" pop in post though as a response to a lot of content & interactions between us in that it felt like a lazy/easy way for scum to try and maintain their reads/stances for the most part.
Well I mean, your one of the X's so of course you dont like it, you could tell me why I am wrong though
What do you mean by "a lot of content and interactions between us", you mean me and you? because I dont recall interacting with you like at all.
Before I discuss further, is the bottom half of your second sentence referring to me, or Gemma?
Gemma #52 shadow is town because What Are Tone Reads.
On the topic of contradictions I brought up, here is another, you claim he is town here, but it the latter post that I made, you say hes on his way to being town...
You struggle to get a read on LW, but have nothing to say when I spoonfeed you his alignment. You're dead to me.
I don’t trust you.
And by not answering my questions bit just voting me instead, you’ve confirmed my gut.
vote Gemma
Also, I do think LW is town. The weirdness comes from previous experience.
^^^ this is a pure meta read, Rhand can be town
all interactions between Shadow/Gemma/Reg look so fake, am I really the only one not being fooled by this?
Gemma
quick question, what do you mean by >randscum? #120 Tonally flat
k but what do that mean? you start of your case with something that can be literally everything and at the same time almost nothing, and dont bother to explain this...
Empty RVS interaction is
is >randscum? I dont get it? was there not enough fluff there?
Hard unvote out of RVS is also >rand scum. Interaction with the hard unvote and the question to me looks like setting up a "peaceful encounter". In other words, agenda.
no it doesnt, how people choose to leave RVS is up to the person
What do you mean by a peaceful encounter?
More importantly, these questions will generate alignment information 2.666% of the the time. Mischaracterizing my Regfan scumread as buddying is an attempt to give his questioning some manner of relevance that it entirely lacks.
Empty statistics, I think its TMI, and that you are scum with Regfan, so I can see how Rhand came to that conclusion... Also a lot of words, that construe to pretty much nothing... How also is he mischaracterizing the question as buddying, when the question is literally, do you always buddy with Reg?, its def a good question to understand why you interacting with Reg the way you are.
This vote is fake because his suspicions were fake.
ur suspicions are fake and forced
This is an attempt to weave villager motivation into his questioning of me. If he were a villager, he wouldn't need to explain what he was doing. Because he is mafia, he feels the need to do so, for the sake of appearances.
This makes no ******* sense
Buddying can occur at any time
Mindmelds maybe arent the strongest read to town read someone, but a reason none the less
Mindmeld is a mafia favorite when it comes to townreading townies, because pocketing.
but I can agree with this statement, cause ive seent it...
honestly this whole case on Rhand was just reachy...
there is no mafia motivation coming from you? ya, its called trying to look town, by spewing urself at this point
Lissa
I think you are trying to hard to see scum motivation in Nancy's post...
Sheep
what do you mean by, "I guess", do you agree or not with Lissa's thoughts?
[granted I think what's happening here for me is actually more "idk which of my wolfreads I want to vote" than anything else]
vote gemma ez
Nancy
clearly Gemma doesnt understand what "confirmed" town means, since she believes opinion equates to being confirmed...
What I find funny, is Gemma is scum reading Regnan and Nancy, and Gemma asks Regnan his thoughts on me, and then regnen asks for Nancy's thoughts on Gemma... How does no one else see scum theater here?
First off, mindmelding with Lastwhisper. I’ll put the quote in spoilers to keep this post readable.
(@LW, before I forget: my first language is Dutch. I’m Belgian.)
This is like, incredibly scummy. Wow. You are definitely a wolf, shadow.
You're ready to end the day in your first post. Did you get a n0 guilty or something? See, I know you didn't, because I'm the cop, and also n0's don't exist on this site. That means there's no other conclusion than: You Are Very Very Scummy.
Gosh, you really need to up your game, because you're getting caught in your first post now and it's kinda shameful. What happened to you, shadow. You used to be good at this.
honestly this reeks of W/W vibes, and heavy distancing, you can both be scum together, dont see how anyone can town read you after these posts from you.
Basically I felt the same thing. Gemma didn’t feel natural and Shadow’s reactions feel fake.
This idea gets reinforced later, when Shadow sheeps Gemma on her case on me. When I asked Gemma how many games she played on MTGS, it is because this part of her case simply doesn’t point to alignment at all on our site:
Everyone who has played for a long time on MTGS knows we unvote when we feel RVS is over and we don’t have a reason to place a real vote. It’s totally NAI.
Shadow knows that for sure, but he reacts like this:
RE the Rhand case: I liked the Stalin is scum joke (I also think Rhand having English as a second language might be affecting you there), but other than that, gosh dang, that’s a solid case. I’m anxiously awaiting Rhand’s reply.
Also, I don’t like Stalin. He should’ve flipped scum
Tonally flat.
That’s me breadcrumbing my flavor. No idea why she’s using this post in RVS to prove anything. What does “tonally flat” even mean and why would it make me scum?
I'm enjoying reading Gemma's posts. Vote Rhand for not RVS voting me.
I think he wanted to... but he's just stallin'.
I was totally going to, but then Gemma quadruple posted
Empty RVS interaction is >rand scum.
I have a history with KJ and almost always RVS vote him. I just thought you deserved it more for that needless quadruple post. I wonder what you expected here.
Calling my RVS posts “tonally flat” and “empty” are flimsy attacks at best.
Hard unvote out of RVS is also >rand scum. Interaction with the hard unvote and the question to me looks like setting up a "peaceful encounter". In other words, agenda.
Asking you those questions was not setting up a peaceful encounter. It was getting my scumread confirmed / debunked. And by not answering them, you confirmed the read.
More importantly, these questions will generate alignment information 2.666% of the the time. Mischaracterizing my Regfan scumread as buddying is an attempt to give his questioning some manner of relevance that it entirely lacks.
This is why I really believe she made this case out of a scum mindset. The percentage is useless and baseless, but more importantly, she’s lying about Regfan.
Regfan hadn’t posted. How can you call that a “scumread” when there’s nothing to read?
It’s pretty obvious that she was toying with Regfan, which shows history and feels to me like buddying.
But that’s besides the point. The fact that she calls me out on mischaracterizing her Regfan scumread while she couldn’t possibly have a scumread on someone who didn’t post, shows malicious intent in this crafted case.
I don’t trust you.
And by not answering my questions bit just voting me instead, you’ve confirmed my gut.
I'm too happy to be town, yeah.
What about my other questions? I’m trying to get a hold on your meta.
This is an attempt to weave villager motivation into his questioning of me. If he were a villager, he wouldn't need to explain what he was doing. Because he is mafia, he feels the need to do so, for the sake of appearances.
She has mafia the other way around here. As town I don’t know your alignment and want to make clear to you why I’m asking you questions, so that you, if you are town, would answer them. You, already very early in our conversation, decided to paint me as scum and refuse the whole time to answer my questions to you, turning the whole conversation away from you and towards me.
As town you would consider the possibility of being wrong about me and actually answer me.
Buddying didn't occur, isn't a thing this early in the game anyway, and any concern over my reads wasn't mentioned at all before now, because he's making this all up as he goes along. There is furthermore no mafia motivation for providing reads early in the game. In fact, there is a fair bit of mafia motivation for not providing reads early in the game. He hasn't talked about my mafia motivation, because he can't. I have none, and he knows it.
Mindmeld is an entirely nondescript reason to townread someone and contains no thought. Note his townread is now qualified by "probably". Mindmeld is a mafia favorite when it comes to townreading townies, because pocketing.
Rhand is mafia.
This is all bad mafia theory, which I think she made up on the spot to paint a picture of me.
Why wouldn’t buddying be a thing early game?
Why wouldn’t there be mafia motivation for providing early reads? (looking like town is what mafia wants to do)
The whole mindmeld thing is completely made up, and for me mindmeld is always one of the strongest reasons to townread someone.
So yeh, I do think Gemma’s case is made by scum. I think Shadow is buddy #1, and Regfan might be #2.
Lastwhisper and Wheatgrinder are my strongest town reads.
I think Lissa cares about solving the game and is town.
I'm pretty nervous about LastWhisper. The pocket attempt pinged me but casually saying "mindmeld" has my attention.
However, LW being scum doesn't naturally fit shadow being scum, and I'm way more sure shadow is scum.
I don't want to spend the time on it now but I plan to look into that more.
[quote from="Vaimes »" url="/forums/community-forums/mafia/796109-team-mafia-game-1-the-death-of-stalin-day-1?comment=165"]Lastwhisper/Wheat_Grinder how familiar are you with each other?
Do know you a little bit, yes. And sure, happy to wait for Rhand to respond before you post, I've got to go now anyway.
@Nancy - Talk to me about the "Gemma is trying too hard to prove she's town" comment since it feels like words for the sake of words, like, what's your read on specific things she's done this game? And "no scum reads so far" is eh, is there /anything/ that /anyone/ has done that you think is more likely to come from mafia? Not expecting "super strong" confident town reads at this point, but I think it's pretty hard to have /no/ thoughts when it comes to it.
Well, there was a couple of posts early on, where she pretty much devoted the entire posts to swearing up and down how towny she was and now, she refers to herself as “confirmed town”. I prefer it when posters let you determine that for itself. Sheep for example appears towny based on content, not because he feels it necessary to keep saying it constantly. Well, I’m not at all familiar with the playerbase. Shadow may remember me or not from a Pirate game where I sucked really bad and had to replace out but sheep is really the only one in this game I’ve had much experience playing with. I usually don’t have strong scumreads early day 1 but I’ve correctly nailed scum in approximately 70% of my games, so that will inevitably change. I’m usually better at formulating townreads at this point in the game.
Hello, fellow townie.
That seems a bit quick, to townread me, just based on that one post.
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Shadow: What do you think of Sheep's vote on you on the end of page one? You specifically didn't like... reflexively react to it, then just started calling it hedgy. So expand on that if you would please. You saw the vote and ______.
and thought “that is not at all what I would have expected from sheep based on the lead up posts.” But like, it wasn’t just the vote post that was hedgy, it was little tidbits riddled into all of sheeps posts, which kind of made me think it was more of a play style thing than a “scum qualifying their statements” thing.
Quote from KJ »
Shadow: What do you think of Rhand->Gemma? The way he is interacting with her, and to a lesser extent how they are interacting together?
I mean, Gemma is my top town read and Rhand is my most suspected, and a lot of that is their back and forth (plus I like Gemma’s breakdown, still waiting to see Rhand’s response). I don’t particularly buy the scum read he purports to have of her.
Gemma!! Why am I not confirmed town?? Also, walk me through that Rhand read, his questions seem innocuous imo.
Who are you, because you ain't shadow.
Hi, I’m Shadow, when have we actually played together (last game I can think of was Silence of the lambs)?
Also, fwiw, aside from my champs game (which doesn’t count) I haven’t played Mafia since day 1 of Arkham (day 2 was me trolling) so I am like, incredibly excited to be in a game again.
I’m not trying to “imply” anything, it’s a T/S list.I kinda like the reg/Gemma back and forth, but I don’t think I can put much stock in it, as a good chunk of it is about me among other reasons.
~~~~~
Hey Nancy, I vaguely remember that you were in pirates. Also Vote Nancy Drew
Give me your three strongest reads with reasons please.
What don’t you like about the phrase “I’m confirmed town”?
Well,I still not completely caught up but I like sheep and LW for town. As I already said to Regfan, I usually don’t have any really strong scumreads this early. I dislike that phrase because it just sounds silly to me to say that unless you’re mod confirmed IC, or spewed town after a flip or something.
There are some interesting interactions going on between Gemma/Rhand, You/Gemma, Gemma/Regfan but I’m not sure if that means anything. Like sheep, I am not familiar with the playerbase, so don’t know if it’s just meta or something else.
And why is your vote on me?
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im still null on most people, soem of regfan's reasons for townreading me felt a bit reachy eg townreading my openin post which was like oh i wish i randed wolf
nancy drew is gun to my head town
What is your take on Gemma, Shadow and Rhand?
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I think I actually like Regfan? He seems productive, getting his foot in the door. I see no signs of a scum-flavored push as of yet, and I got some useful antialignments off his posting (he's not with Gemma or shadow, and I'm side-eyeing them pretty hard).
I'm not really there yet on Gemma and am actually kind of torn. Activity and bounciness look good, but I'm worried it's being used as a buffer to get townread early and minimize being scumread because of how much she doesn't like rolling scum. Tossing out a ton of townreads like Halloween candy is a little off-putting. Her Killjoy thing looks completely fabricated, especially the "I think the alternation of active->passive->active voice is mafia indicative" part.
@Regfan Could you dig a little deeper re: Gemma's thoughts on Killjoy? I can understand it being tonally off, but I want to know specifically if you agree with the word/voice tells. Also why did you post your KJ thoughts before Gemma after asking her about him?
I'm tinfoiling Lissa/Gemma because I combed through Gemma's ISO and she makes no mention of preferring scum, or answering shadow's question at all. Leaning more scum on Lissa though; she fluffs a bit before making an Actual Post, and I dislike that her first/only read is a pretty obvious/consensus one. Her other posts after that just looks like a bunch of words rather than attempts to solve.
I can't really put my shadow read into words. He's kinda creeping me out.
Hey Rhand, this would be the game to cop me N1 in, or you know, fake cop me if you're scum. I wouldn't mind
I've been thinking about this post for like half an hour and still can't make any sense of it (especially the "fake cop me if you're scum" part), even as a joke. Joking about being Copped when Rhand made no mention of shadow feels like a scum joke, but I could just be missing some backstory?
I should probably move Rhand to gray but I'm l a z y.
Is your all of your list ordered, or just the town/null/scum categories? I’m curious as to why I fall below a total lurker. Lol
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There are some interesting interactions going on between Gemma/Rhand, You/Gemma, Gemma/Regfan but I’m not sure if that means anything. Like sheep, I am not familiar with the playerbase, so don’t know if it’s just meta or something else.
Can you elaborate on the interactions, and why you call them interesting?
Hey sheep, Well. I’m thinking we probably both rolled town in this game. I’m also liking Latewhisper but since I don’t have any meta knowledge of them, I’ll have to wait and see. Gemma seems to be trying a bit too hard to prove she’s town but it’s maybe NAI. No actual scumreads yet.
This is a pretty wolfy post.
"Hey sheep, Well. I'm thinking we probably both rolled town in this game" is like... "how do you do fellow kids" city on the awkward scale. Also, there's "hedgy" and there's "completely empty hedging that is empty to the degree of utterly meaningless". I have an issue with the latter, which is what that post is.
Why is this a wolfy post? Gemma townreads me for it and you scumread me for it. Depending on how confident either of your reads are, I think either deciding I’m town or scum solely based on this is highly suspicious - more from you than from Gemma IMO because it seems to be her style to throw out reads with not much seriousness behind them. The only person, I would not be suspicious of confidently reading me this quickly would be sheep based on we’ve played a lot of games together including hydra in team Mafia game.
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Hey sheep, Well. I’m thinking we probably both rolled town in this game. I’m also liking Latewhisper but since I don’t have any meta knowledge of them, I’ll have to wait and see. Gemma seems to be trying a bit too hard to prove she’s town but it’s maybe NAI. No actual scumreads yet.
This is a pretty wolfy post.
"Hey sheep, Well. I'm thinking we probably both rolled town in this game" is like... "how do you do fellow kids" city on the awkward scale. Also, there's "hedgy" and there's "completely empty hedging that is empty to the degree of utterly meaningless". I have an issue with the latter, which is what that post is.
Why is this a wolfy post? Gemma townreads me for it and you scumread me for it. Depending on how confident either of your reads are, I think either deciding I’m town or scum solely based on this is highly suspicious - more from you than from Gemma IMO because it seems to be her style to throw out reads with not much seriousness behind them. The only person, I would not be suspicious of confidently reading me this quickly would be sheep based on we’ve played a lot of games together including hydra in team Mafia game.
Actually,on reread, I think I may have overreacted to this. Lisa was just calling my post, “wolfy” , not necessarily scumreading me. My bad. So @Lissa , why is this post “wolfy” exactly?
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I'd complain about being stuck in the slow game, because Im not getting much content to post about, and Im not good at starting conversations, still think Gemma is TMI, and that if not Gemma/Shadow/Regfan, then its Gemma/Regfan/X, or just Shadow/X/X.
Regfan We can discuss LW then?
I mean you can talk to me, I always caught up, feels weird that you choose to ask this question to the person who called you out for being scum...
I've got him as a weakish town read, agree/like a lot of the reasoning you've got on him, wasn't a huge fan of his "GTH scum team is X/X/X" pop in post though as a response to a lot of content & interactions between us in that it felt like a lazy/easy way for scum to try and maintain their reads/stances for the most part.
Well I mean, your one of the X's so of course you dont like it, you could tell me why I am wrong though
What do you mean by "a lot of content and interactions between us", you mean me and you? because I dont recall interacting with you like at all.
Before I discuss further, is the bottom half of your second sentence referring to me, or Gemma?
Gemma #52 shadow is town because What Are Tone Reads.
On the topic of contradictions I brought up, here is another, you claim he is town here, but it the latter post that I made, you say hes on his way to being town...
You struggle to get a read on LW, but have nothing to say when I spoonfeed you his alignment. You're dead to me.
I don’t trust you.
And by not answering my questions bit just voting me instead, you’ve confirmed my gut.
vote Gemma
Also, I do think LW is town. The weirdness comes from previous experience.
^^^ this is a pure meta read, Rhand can be town
all interactions between Shadow/Gemma/Reg look so fake, am I really the only one not being fooled by this?
Gemma
quick question, what do you mean by >randscum? #120 Tonally flat
k but what do that mean? you start of your case with something that can be literally everything and at the same time almost nothing, and dont bother to explain this...
Empty RVS interaction is
is >randscum? I dont get it? was there not enough fluff there?
Hard unvote out of RVS is also >rand scum. Interaction with the hard unvote and the question to me looks like setting up a "peaceful encounter". In other words, agenda.
no it doesnt, how people choose to leave RVS is up to the person
What do you mean by a peaceful encounter?
More importantly, these questions will generate alignment information 2.666% of the the time. Mischaracterizing my Regfan scumread as buddying is an attempt to give his questioning some manner of relevance that it entirely lacks.
Empty statistics, I think its TMI, and that you are scum with Regfan, so I can see how Rhand came to that conclusion... Also a lot of words, that construe to pretty much nothing... How also is he mischaracterizing the question as buddying, when the question is literally, do you always buddy with Reg?, its def a good question to understand why you interacting with Reg the way you are.
This vote is fake because his suspicions were fake.
ur suspicions are fake and forced
This is an attempt to weave villager motivation into his questioning of me. If he were a villager, he wouldn't need to explain what he was doing. Because he is mafia, he feels the need to do so, for the sake of appearances.
This makes no ******* sense
Buddying can occur at any time
Mindmelds maybe arent the strongest read to town read someone, but a reason none the less
Mindmeld is a mafia favorite when it comes to townreading townies, because pocketing.
but I can agree with this statement, cause ive seent it...
honestly this whole case on Rhand was just reachy...
there is no mafia motivation coming from you? ya, its called trying to look town, by spewing urself at this point
Lissa
I think you are trying to hard to see scum motivation in Nancy's post...
Sheep
what do you mean by, "I guess", do you agree or not with Lissa's thoughts?
[granted I think what's happening here for me is actually more "idk which of my wolfreads I want to vote" than anything else]
vote gemma ez
Nancy
clearly Gemma doesnt understand what "confirmed" town means, since she believes opinion equates to being confirmed...
What I find funny, is Gemma is scum reading Regnan and Nancy, and Gemma asks Regnan his thoughts on me, and then regnen asks for Nancy's thoughts on Gemma... How does no one else see scum theater here?
I think you’ve misunderstood. Gemma called me “fellow towny”, how is this a scumread? Why is Regfan asking for my thoughts on Gemma “scum theater”? I had already commented on a few of Gemma’s posts briefly before that. Why wouldn’t he ask me about that?
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There are some interesting interactions going on between Gemma/Rhand, You/Gemma, Gemma/Regfan but I’m not sure if that means anything. Like sheep, I am not familiar with the playerbase, so don’t know if it’s just meta or something else.
Can you elaborate on the interactions, and why you call them interesting?
I dunno exactly, there is a familiarity between all of them including Vaims - except that doesn’t seem to be out of the ordinary - but like I said, it could just be meta. I’ll have to look more at it.
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I think Lissa cares about solving the game and is town.
I'm pretty nervous about LastWhisper. The pocket attempt pinged me but casually saying "mindmeld" has my attention.
However, LW being scum doesn't naturally fit shadow being scum, and I'm way more sure shadow is scum.
I don't want to spend the time on it now but I plan to look into that more.
[quote from="Vaimes »" url="/forums/community-forums/mafia/796109-team-mafia-game-1-the-death-of-stalin-day-1?comment=165"]Lastwhisper/Wheat_Grinder how familiar are you with each other?
I do not know LastWhisper.
</blockquote>
I was feeling pretty good about LW before that whole scum theater bit. What do you make of it?
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@Nancy
Hmm thought I saw her scum reading you somewhere, could be my bad
And you are misreading that line of my post, I'm not associating you with either of them, I saying reg and Gemma were scum theater
But if your gunna scum read me because you thought I scum read you, then that's actually not looking good for you, I haven't particularly thought you did scummy as everyone else pointed out, until now that is
@Nancy
Hmm thought I saw her scum reading you somewhere, could be my bad
And you are misreading that line of my post, I'm not associating you with either of them, I saying reg and Gemma were scum theater
But if your gunna scum read me because you thought I scum read you, then that's actually not looking good for you, I haven't particularly thought you did scummy as everyone else pointed out, until now that is
No, I’m not and in fact I was wondering the exact same thing but the Gemma/Shados, Gemma/Rhand interactions pinged me too. I think I obviously misinterpreted your post. I get into to trouble for doing that sort of thing all the time. Sorry.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It is not necessary to accept everything as true, one must only accept it as necessary. ~Kafka
@Nancy
Hmm thought I saw her scum reading you somewhere, could be my bad
And you are misreading that line of my post, I'm not associating you with either of them, I saying reg and Gemma were scum theater
But if your gunna scum read me because you thought I scum read you, then that's actually not looking good for you, I haven't particularly thought you did scummy as everyone else pointed out, until now that is
No, I’m not and in fact I was wondering the exact same thing but the Gemma/Shados, Gemma/Rhand interactions pinged me too. I think I obviously misinterpreted your post. I get into to trouble for doing that sort of thing all the time. Sorry.
Their interactions did seem kind of melodramatic. I’m a huge disadvantage on this site because I haven’t really played with anyone besides sheep. I don’t even know how to ISO people here. What do you think about Shadow and Lissa?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It is not necessary to accept everything as true, one must only accept it as necessary. ~Kafka
@Nancy
Hmm thought I saw her scum reading you somewhere, could be my bad
And you are misreading that line of my post, I'm not associating you with either of them, I saying reg and Gemma were scum theater
But if your gunna scum read me because you thought I scum read you, then that's actually not looking good for you, I haven't particularly thought you did scummy as everyone else pointed out, until now that is
Gemma did scumread me initially but then townread me, I believe.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It is not necessary to accept everything as true, one must only accept it as necessary. ~Kafka
@Nancy
Hmm thought I saw her scum reading you somewhere, could be my bad
And you are misreading that line of my post, I'm not associating you with either of them, I saying reg and Gemma were scum theater
But if your gunna scum read me because you thought I scum read you, then that's actually not looking good for you, I haven't particularly thought you did scummy as everyone else pointed out, until now that is
No, I’m not and in fact I was wondering the exact same thing but the Gemma/Shados, Gemma/Rhand interactions pinged me too. I think I obviously misinterpreted your post. I get into to trouble for doing that sort of thing all the time. Sorry.
Their interactions did seem kind of melodramatic. I’m a huge disadvantage on this site because I haven’t really played with anyone besides sheep. I don’t even know how to ISO people here. What do you think about Shadow and Lissa?
I'll probably won't get to this question till tmr, cause I'm at work, and tonight need to post in another game
U can psuedo iso people by clicking on their names and clicking view posts
@Nancy
Hmm thought I saw her scum reading you somewhere, could be my bad
And you are misreading that line of my post, I'm not associating you with either of them, I saying reg and Gemma were scum theater
But if your gunna scum read me because you thought I scum read you, then that's actually not looking good for you, I haven't particularly thought you did scummy as everyone else pointed out, until now that is
No, I’m not and in fact I was wondering the exact same thing but the Gemma/Shados, Gemma/Rhand interactions pinged me too. I think I obviously misinterpreted your post. I get into to trouble for doing that sort of thing all the time. Sorry.
Their interactions did seem kind of melodramatic. I’m a huge disadvantage on this site because I haven’t really played with anyone besides sheep. I don’t even know how to ISO people here. What do you think about Shadow and Lissa?
I'll probably won't get to this question till tmr, cause I'm at work, and tonight need to post in another game
U can psuedo iso people by clicking on their names and clicking view posts
Thanks.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It is not necessary to accept everything as true, one must only accept it as necessary. ~Kafka
im still null on most people, soem of regfan's reasons for townreading me felt a bit reachy eg townreading my openin post which was like oh i wish i randed wolf
There are some interesting interactions going on between Gemma/Rhand, You/Gemma, Gemma/Regfan but I’m not sure if that means anything. Like sheep, I am not familiar with the playerbase, so don’t know if it’s just meta or something else.
Can you elaborate on the interactions, and why you call them interesting?
I think Lissa cares about solving the game and is town.
I'm pretty nervous about LastWhisper. The pocket attempt pinged me but casually saying "mindmeld" has my attention.
However, LW being scum doesn't naturally fit shadow being scum, and I'm way more sure shadow is scum.
I don't want to spend the time on it now but I plan to look into that more.
[quote from="Vaimes »" url="/forums/community-forums/mafia/796109-team-mafia-game-1-the-death-of-stalin-day-1?comment=165"]Lastwhisper/Wheat_Grinder how familiar are you with each other?
I do not know LastWhisper.
</blockquote>
I was feeling pretty good about LW before that whole scum theater bit. What do you make of it?
What I find funny, is Gemma is scum reading Regnan and Nancy, and Gemma asks Regnan his thoughts on me, and then regnen asks for Nancy's thoughts on Gemma... How does no one else see scum theater here?
I actually missed this line and had to go back looking for it. Long posts make my eyes glaze.
At the very least I disagree with the concept. It's modconfirmed that the mafia have daytalk. Why would they ask each other in broad daylight, if that's the case? Not only this but scum tend to talk to their buddies less on average.
It also doesn't fit with LW's previously stated views on who is scum, specifically it precludes shadow.
Except that by the time I get to this, LW says that Nancy was town in that equation, and that it was Regfan and Gemma who are scum. So that resolves the previous line, but it leaves a new open question...
LW: How does this point to Regfan and Gemma being scum, but not Nancy? What does Nancy's presence here mean?
@Rhand do you have any thoughts on the rest of my posts? Kinda waiting to go over stuff with Regfan before I get back to you but if you're around I'd be curious how you're reading the stuff outside my case on you.
Lissa
I think you are trying to hard to see scum motivation in Nancy's post...
What does this like... mean here exactly?
It's a pretty straightforward and not particularly deep read, post is awkward as **** and not villagery awkward.
Rhand's response to Gemma's case can... kind of be summed up as "you think differently than me so it doesn't make sense to me". Or more accurately it attributes, hm. A lot more depth to a lot of that case than I think there really is? I'm not sure depth is the word either. Think they're sort of speaking different languages which kinda cycles back around to the first thing I described it as anyway.
"This is all bad mafia theory I think she made up on the spot" is definitely just the first thing.
Hey sheep, Well. I’m thinking we probably both rolled town in this game. I’m also liking Latewhisper but since I don’t have any meta knowledge of them, I’ll have to wait and see. Gemma seems to be trying a bit too hard to prove she’s town but it’s maybe NAI. No actual scumreads yet.
This is a pretty wolfy post.
"Hey sheep, Well. I'm thinking we probably both rolled town in this game" is like... "how do you do fellow kids" city on the awkward scale. Also, there's "hedgy" and there's "completely empty hedging that is empty to the degree of utterly meaningless". I have an issue with the latter, which is what that post is.
Why is this a wolfy post? Gemma townreads me for it and you scumread me for it. Depending on how confident either of your reads are, I think either deciding I’m town or scum solely based on this is highly suspicious - more from you than from Gemma IMO because it seems to be her style to throw out reads with not much seriousness behind them. The only person, I would not be suspicious of confidently reading me this quickly would be sheep based on we’ve played a lot of games together including hydra in team Mafia game.
confidence is relative
making a read based on a small amount of information is not particularly atypical and doesn't exclude the use of other information when it exists
what exactly is so remarkable to you about... finding a post wolfy?
Actually,on reread, I think I may have overreacted to this. Lisa was just calling my post, “wolfy” , not necessarily scumreading me. My bad. So @Lissa , why is this post “wolfy” exactly?
I mean I explained it in the post.
And again further up in this one.
And yes it is a scumread.
Re: ISOs you can go to the forum list click the # of replies for the thread and then click the # of posts for a person in there. Though the view-a-person's-posts pseudo iso works fine a lot of the time and I've used both to some extent.
Actually,on reread, I think I may have overreacted to this. Lisa was just calling my post, “wolfy” , not necessarily scumreading me. My bad. So @Lissa , why is this post “wolfy” exactly?
Rhand's response to Gemma's case can... kind of be summed up as "you think differently than me so it doesn't make sense to me". Or more accurately it attributes, hm. A lot more depth to a lot of that case than I think there really is? I'm not sure depth is the word either. Think they're sort of speaking different languages which kinda cycles back around to the first thing I described it as anyway.
"This is all bad mafia theory I think she made up on the spot" is definitely just the first thing.
Lissa Rhand's response to Gemma's case can... kind of be summed up as "you think differently than me so it doesn't make sense to me". Wheat sorta breaking out of the him/LW/Rhand dynamic makes me feel somewhat decent about him.
does anyone see a difference here? because I dont, you are a hypocrite
What does this like... mean here exactly?
exactly what I said? you are reading into as much as you are reading into Rhand...
From Me:
What I find funny, is Gemma is scum reading Regnan and Nancy, and Gemma asks Regnan his thoughts on me, and then regnen asks for Nancy's thoughts on Gemma... How does no one else see scum theater here?
WheatGrinder LW: How does this point to Regfan and Gemma being scum, but not Nancy? What does Nancy's presence here mean?
Because she is interacting with her scum reads, like they arent her scum reads, and then Regfan is asking Nancy what she thinks of the person scum reading him, and even in general, outside of this post, Regfans and Gemma's interactions just scream W/W
Nancy
Dont think Shadow ever flips town this game imo
and about Lissa, well dont understand why shes defending Gemma, or how anyone can like Gemma's play here, but in the off chance you do manage to flip scum, shes town? I guess thats kinda weird to say to you, but honestly lissa just feels like a misplaced townie, if Gemma flips scum tho, which I believe she will, I might need to reevaluate Lissa
also Rhand is still town because of meta
Wheat At the very least I disagree with the concept. It's modconfirmed that the mafia have daytalk. Why would they ask each other in broad daylight, if that's the case? Not only this but scum tend to talk to their buddies less on average. really not a fan of people using wine to argue against a case...
Lissa Rhand's response to Gemma's case can... kind of be summed up as "you think differently than me so it doesn't make sense to me". Wheat sorta breaking out of the him/LW/Rhand dynamic makes me feel somewhat decent about him.
does anyone see a difference here? because I dont, you are a hypocrite
Er, huh?
I don't even understand how these things are related.
I like Wheat for what I mentioned because of what I think it says about his mindset w/r/t solving the game.
Response to Rhand thing was literally just a "this does absolutely nothing for me".
@Gemma - We can discuss LW then? I've got him as a weakish town read, agree/like a lot of the reasoning you've got on him, wasn't a huge fan of his "GTH scum team is X/X/X" pop in post though as a response to a lot of content & interactions between us in that it felt like a lazy/easy way for scum to try and maintain their reads/stances for the most part.
Who's weighed in. Lissa, Regfan, Gemma.
Gemma, Lissa, Regfan: What do you think of the other two? And do you agree with my assessment?
This is a pretty wolfy post.
"Hey sheep, Well. I'm thinking we probably both rolled town in this game" is like... "how do you do fellow kids" city on the awkward scale. Also, there's "hedgy" and there's "completely empty hedging that is empty to the degree of utterly meaningless". I have an issue with the latter, which is what that post is.
Old habits kinda die hard sometimes.
I don't really have any thoughts on either of the other two I haven't already expressed (and that already expressed is basically nothing) and I'm about to go to bed. It doesn't actually seem that weird to me from what I remember of their posting w/r/t you though.
@Killjoy I would love to agree with your assessment if I knew what your assessment was.
What this means for the future is... awkward, in a distant cousin sort of way.
i guess
Regfan
We can discuss LW then?
I mean you can talk to me, I always caught up, feels weird that you choose to ask this question to the person who called you out for being scum...
I've got him as a weakish town read, agree/like a lot of the reasoning you've got on him, wasn't a huge fan of his "GTH scum team is X/X/X" pop in post though as a response to a lot of content & interactions between us in that it felt like a lazy/easy way for scum to try and maintain their reads/stances for the most part.
Well I mean, your one of the X's so of course you dont like it, you could tell me why I am wrong though
What do you mean by "a lot of content and interactions between us", you mean me and you? because I dont recall interacting with you like at all.
Before I discuss further, is the bottom half of your second sentence referring to me, or Gemma?
Gemma
#52
shadow is town because What Are Tone Reads.
On the topic of contradictions I brought up, here is another, you claim he is town here, but it the latter post that I made, you say hes on his way to being town...
^^^ this is a pure meta read, Rhand can be town
all interactions between Shadow/Gemma/Reg look so fake, am I really the only one not being fooled by this?
Gemma
quick question, what do you mean by >randscum?
#120
Tonally flat
k but what do that mean? you start of your case with something that can be literally everything and at the same time almost nothing, and dont bother to explain this...
Empty RVS interaction is
is >randscum? I dont get it? was there not enough fluff there?
Hard unvote out of RVS is also >rand scum. Interaction with the hard unvote and the question to me looks like setting up a "peaceful encounter". In other words, agenda.
no it doesnt, how people choose to leave RVS is up to the person
What do you mean by a peaceful encounter?
More importantly, these questions will generate alignment information 2.666% of the the time. Mischaracterizing my Regfan scumread as buddying is an attempt to give his questioning some manner of relevance that it entirely lacks.
Empty statistics, I think its TMI, and that you are scum with Regfan, so I can see how Rhand came to that conclusion... Also a lot of words, that construe to pretty much nothing... How also is he mischaracterizing the question as buddying, when the question is literally, do you always buddy with Reg?, its def a good question to understand why you interacting with Reg the way you are.
This vote is fake because his suspicions were fake.
ur suspicions are fake and forced
This is an attempt to weave villager motivation into his questioning of me. If he were a villager, he wouldn't need to explain what he was doing. Because he is mafia, he feels the need to do so, for the sake of appearances.
This makes no ******* sense
Buddying can occur at any time
Mindmelds maybe arent the strongest read to town read someone, but a reason none the less
Mindmeld is a mafia favorite when it comes to townreading townies, because pocketing.
but I can agree with this statement, cause ive seent it...
honestly this whole case on Rhand was just reachy...
there is no mafia motivation coming from you? ya, its called trying to look town, by spewing urself at this point
Lissa
I think you are trying to hard to see scum motivation in Nancy's post...
Sheep
what do you mean by, "I guess", do you agree or not with Lissa's thoughts? nobody was cleared yet, wtf are you on about vote gemma ez
Nancy
clearly Gemma doesnt understand what "confirmed" town means, since she believes opinion equates to being confirmed...
What I find funny, is Gemma is scum reading Regnan and Nancy, and Gemma asks Regnan his thoughts on me, and then regnen asks for Nancy's thoughts on Gemma... How does no one else see scum theater here?
First off, mindmelding with Lastwhisper. I’ll put the quote in spoilers to keep this post readable.
(@LW, before I forget: my first language is Dutch. I’m Belgian.)
This idea gets reinforced later, when Shadow sheeps Gemma on her case on me. When I asked Gemma how many games she played on MTGS, it is because this part of her case simply doesn’t point to alignment at all on our site:
Everyone who has played for a long time on MTGS knows we unvote when we feel RVS is over and we don’t have a reason to place a real vote. It’s totally NAI.
Shadow knows that for sure, but he reacts like this:
As for the rest of Gemma’s case:
She starts out throwing out a premise she doesn’t prove, nor comes back to. A simple mudsling. And directionless isn’t even a scumtell.
That’s me breadcrumbing my flavor. No idea why she’s using this post in RVS to prove anything. What does “tonally flat” even mean and why would it make me scum?
I have a history with KJ and almost always RVS vote him. I just thought you deserved it more for that needless quadruple post. I wonder what you expected here.
Calling my RVS posts “tonally flat” and “empty” are flimsy attacks at best.
Asking you those questions was not setting up a peaceful encounter. It was getting my scumread confirmed / debunked. And by not answering them, you confirmed the read.
This is why I really believe she made this case out of a scum mindset. The percentage is useless and baseless, but more importantly, she’s lying about Regfan.
Regfan hadn’t posted. How can you call that a “scumread” when there’s nothing to read?
It’s pretty obvious that she was toying with Regfan, which shows history and feels to me like buddying.
But that’s besides the point. The fact that she calls me out on mischaracterizing her Regfan scumread while she couldn’t possibly have a scumread on someone who didn’t post, shows malicious intent in this crafted case.
She has mafia the other way around here. As town I don’t know your alignment and want to make clear to you why I’m asking you questions, so that you, if you are town, would answer them. You, already very early in our conversation, decided to paint me as scum and refuse the whole time to answer my questions to you, turning the whole conversation away from you and towards me.
As town you would consider the possibility of being wrong about me and actually answer me.
This is all bad mafia theory, which I think she made up on the spot to paint a picture of me.
Why wouldn’t buddying be a thing early game?
Why wouldn’t there be mafia motivation for providing early reads? (looking like town is what mafia wants to do)
The whole mindmeld thing is completely made up, and for me mindmeld is always one of the strongest reasons to townread someone.
So yeh, I do think Gemma’s case is made by scum. I think Shadow is buddy #1, and Regfan might be #2.
Lastwhisper and Wheatgrinder are my strongest town reads.
I'm pretty nervous about LastWhisper. The pocket attempt pinged me but casually saying "mindmeld" has my attention.
However, LW being scum doesn't naturally fit shadow being scum, and I'm way more sure shadow is scum.
I don't want to spend the time on it now but I plan to look into that more.
In your case I find it towny because I think you want to figure out who's scum.
By contrast I feel Gemma's excitement doesn't have anything to do with solving the game.
I do not know LastWhisper.
Rhand, how do you feel about LW?
That seems a bit quick, to townread me, just based on that one post.
Well,I still not completely caught up but I like sheep and LW for town. As I already said to Regfan, I usually don’t have any really strong scumreads this early. I dislike that phrase because it just sounds silly to me to say that unless you’re mod confirmed IC, or spewed town after a flip or something.
There are some interesting interactions going on between Gemma/Rhand, You/Gemma, Gemma/Regfan but I’m not sure if that means anything. Like sheep, I am not familiar with the playerbase, so don’t know if it’s just meta or something else.
And why is your vote on me?
What is your take on Gemma, Shadow and Rhand?
Is your all of your list ordered, or just the town/null/scum categories? I’m curious as to why I fall below a total lurker. Lol
Can you elaborate on the interactions, and why you call them interesting?
Why is this a wolfy post? Gemma townreads me for it and you scumread me for it. Depending on how confident either of your reads are, I think either deciding I’m town or scum solely based on this is highly suspicious - more from you than from Gemma IMO because it seems to be her style to throw out reads with not much seriousness behind them. The only person, I would not be suspicious of confidently reading me this quickly would be sheep based on we’ve played a lot of games together including hydra in team Mafia game.
Actually,on reread, I think I may have overreacted to this. Lisa was just calling my post, “wolfy” , not necessarily scumreading me. My bad. So @Lissa , why is this post “wolfy” exactly?
I think he’s town.
It is weird that I agree with him on basically everything this game. We have a history of going for each other’s throats as t/t
I think you’ve misunderstood. Gemma called me “fellow towny”, how is this a scumread? Why is Regfan asking for my thoughts on Gemma “scum theater”? I had already commented on a few of Gemma’s posts briefly before that. Why wouldn’t he ask me about that?
I dunno exactly, there is a familiarity between all of them including Vaims - except that doesn’t seem to be out of the ordinary - but like I said, it could just be meta. I’ll have to look more at it.
I was feeling pretty good about LW before that whole scum theater bit. What do you make of it?
Hmm thought I saw her scum reading you somewhere, could be my bad
And you are misreading that line of my post, I'm not associating you with either of them, I saying reg and Gemma were scum theater
But if your gunna scum read me because you thought I scum read you, then that's actually not looking good for you, I haven't particularly thought you did scummy as everyone else pointed out, until now that is
No, I’m not and in fact I was wondering the exact same thing but the Gemma/Shados, Gemma/Rhand interactions pinged me too. I think I obviously misinterpreted your post. I get into to trouble for doing that sort of thing all the time. Sorry.
Their interactions did seem kind of melodramatic. I’m a huge disadvantage on this site because I haven’t really played with anyone besides sheep. I don’t even know how to ISO people here. What do you think about Shadow and Lissa?
Gemma did scumread me initially but then townread me, I believe.
U can psuedo iso people by clicking on their names and clicking view posts
Thanks.
I’m confused sheep, if you shared Lissa’s reaction to that post, then why are you townreading me then?
rhand is null
Alas, it was a reply I don't know what to do with.
Can you elaborate on the interactions, and why you call them interesting?
For reference, LW said...
I actually missed this line and had to go back looking for it. Long posts make my eyes glaze.
At the very least I disagree with the concept. It's modconfirmed that the mafia have daytalk. Why would they ask each other in broad daylight, if that's the case? Not only this but scum tend to talk to their buddies less on average.
It also doesn't fit with LW's previously stated views on who is scum, specifically it precludes shadow.
Except that by the time I get to this, LW says that Nancy was town in that equation, and that it was Regfan and Gemma who are scum. So that resolves the previous line, but it leaves a new open question...
LW: How does this point to Regfan and Gemma being scum, but not Nancy? What does Nancy's presence here mean?
is this intentionally ironic
What does this like... mean here exactly?
It's a pretty straightforward and not particularly deep read, post is awkward as **** and not villagery awkward.
Rhand's response to Gemma's case can... kind of be summed up as "you think differently than me so it doesn't make sense to me". Or more accurately it attributes, hm. A lot more depth to a lot of that case than I think there really is? I'm not sure depth is the word either. Think they're sort of speaking different languages which kinda cycles back around to the first thing I described it as anyway.
"This is all bad mafia theory I think she made up on the spot" is definitely just the first thing.
confidence is relative
making a read based on a small amount of information is not particularly atypical and doesn't exclude the use of other information when it exists
what exactly is so remarkable to you about... finding a post wolfy?
I mean I explained it in the post.
And again further up in this one.
And yes it is a scumread.
Re: ISOs you can go to the forum list click the # of replies for the thread and then click the # of posts for a person in there. Though the view-a-person's-posts pseudo iso works fine a lot of the time and I've used both to some extent.
How exactly is that ehh?
Wheat sorta breaking out of the him/LW/Rhand dynamic makes me feel somewhat decent about him.
Gl hope it clears up friend.
Oh yay you said something I agree with finally!
felt too easily given there
Rhand's response to Gemma's case can... kind of be summed up as "you think differently than me so it doesn't make sense to me".
Wheat sorta breaking out of the him/LW/Rhand dynamic makes me feel somewhat decent about him.
does anyone see a difference here? because I dont, you are a hypocrite
What does this like... mean here exactly?
exactly what I said? you are reading into as much as you are reading into Rhand...
From Me:
WheatGrinder
LW: How does this point to Regfan and Gemma being scum, but not Nancy? What does Nancy's presence here mean?
Because she is interacting with her scum reads, like they arent her scum reads, and then Regfan is asking Nancy what she thinks of the person scum reading him, and even in general, outside of this post, Regfans and Gemma's interactions just scream W/W
Nancy
Dont think Shadow ever flips town this game imo
and about Lissa, well dont understand why shes defending Gemma, or how anyone can like Gemma's play here, but in the off chance you do manage to flip scum, shes town? I guess thats kinda weird to say to you, but honestly lissa just feels like a misplaced townie, if Gemma flips scum tho, which I believe she will, I might need to reevaluate Lissa
also Rhand is still town because of meta
Wheat
At the very least I disagree with the concept. It's modconfirmed that the mafia have daytalk. Why would they ask each other in broad daylight, if that's the case? Not only this but scum tend to talk to their buddies less on average.
really not a fan of people using wine to argue against a case...
Er, huh?
I don't even understand how these things are related.
I like Wheat for what I mentioned because of what I think it says about his mindset w/r/t solving the game.
Response to Rhand thing was literally just a "this does absolutely nothing for me".
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