~ separates confirmed town from locked townreads
- equals ~2.5%
)) hard bracket, each hard bracket covers 10-20%
) soft bracket, compartmentalizes groupings within a hard bracket
% is rand (75%)
> poe marker
[] square bracketed slots are not in the lynch pool, even if they are in the poe
There is also the lolbracket, for those special someones.
Representationally it is on the outside margins of the 90% mark, but really it exists in a separate temporal dimension between 89.9% and 89.99% where percentages do not exist.
Sheep and wheat are probably not w/w, they both used very similar non reasoning in their votes on me.
Hm. This is certainly a post, now that I go over it again.
Unless shadow was low-key scumreading WG or sheep, this doesn't feel like an intuitive thing to mention at this juncture.
And shadow isn't a level 0-1 wolf with no conception of Interesting Reads.
Plan A is that I say this post alone spews shadow a wolf if WG flips mafia.
Plan B is that I never make this post so that I can't be wrong and shadow has no idea that I'm on to him.
If Plan A falls through then at least I've got something to fall back on besides my damaged ego.
@Vaimes - I just dumped my reads/thoughts since I was irritated with Gemma at the time and thought "**** it, I've got X time on this game, I'l just post what I have here and if she doesn't interact with me or want to talk to me about it then I'm not wasting time on it", probably wasn't the ideal or mature way to handle it but meh, didn't work out too badly. Word/voice type tells are never really my strong suit TBQH, I do think the change in tone is noticeable there, I think it's problematic, it's not /my/ biggest issue with that post of his, it's that the progression behind the comments don't really track and feel like they're for show/to get town read than actually posting reads though.
Think the pop in & active lurking is bad, think it's less bad than if it was another website though; remember seeing a lot of players do it inside Jurassic Park and used it to push through multiple mslynches there, think it's more to do with the "Longer day phases -> Slower games" type thing where people are "keeping up" but having times where they're feeling like actually posting and it's less alignment indicative than say doing it in a 72/24 game.
@Vaimes: can you quote the Nancy posts that you think are town indicative?
~~~~~
The entire back and forth between Lissa and Nancy is like never s/s; I would especially stake like 17 Doritos that that recent conversation always takes place in scum chat, and will clear the other if one flips scum.
~~~~~
Just for complete clarity, /barn is short for barnacle, basically to attach oneself to an argument or point but only freeload off of it without really adding anything yourself.
Also kind of townreading you, which means I'm back to hrming at Rhand.
I have vague feelings that he's cozying up to LW.
Can we like, talk about this? I have never once read lastwhisper and thought “you know what, that makes complete and total sense”, and I’m just not sure how town!Rhand (or much of anyone) could do that to this extent.
~~~~~
@Gemma: FWIW I have wheat on the scum side of null, but I often throw unalignments in my notes, and sometimes drop them in thread. It’s especially helpful because I don’t particularly like to back read late in the game.
so ignoring my hard tunnel on Gemma, and shadow for now, still think there is there is scum there, if not both
Nancy
using someone else to explain why something you did can be townie, just feels wrong, because then it just feels like you did it because it looks townie, but I could be completely wrong here
thanks to shadow for explain the full details of /barn
and anyone else that explained it
I agree with him in that Nancy/Lissa are probably never W/W, especially not with day chat...
Vaimes called Gemma a butt, hes lock!town :3
a point on Rhand, not that I support lurkers, but him, hopping in for only one or two posts is pretty normal, honestly even his rvs vote, and how he switched to Gemma feels like Rhand from Arhkam, but Ive never seen his scum!game, and thats meta (pure meta reads are meh), but I dont particularly think his posts sound scummy either
Shadow Can we like, talk about this? I have never once read lastwhisper and thought “you know what, that makes complete and total sense”, and I’m just not sure how town!Rhand (or much of anyone) could do that to this extent.
ya god forbid someone thinks I made a coherent thought...
I will have more time to post tomorrow and Weds, I will be around
@Vaimes - I just dumped my reads/thoughts since I was irritated with Gemma at the time and thought "**** it, I've got X time on this game, I'l just post what I have here and if she doesn't interact with me or want to talk to me about it then I'm not wasting time on it", probably wasn't the ideal or mature way to handle it but meh, didn't work out too badly. Word/voice type tells are never really my strong suit TBQH, I do think the change in tone is noticeable there, I think it's problematic, it's not /my/ biggest issue with that post of his, it's that the progression behind the comments don't really track and feel like they're for show/to get town read than actually posting reads though.
Think the pop in & active lurking is bad, think it's less bad than if it was another website though; remember seeing a lot of players do it inside Jurassic Park and used it to push through multiple mslynches there, think it's more to do with the "Longer day phases -> Slower games" type thing where people are "keeping up" but having times where they're feeling like actually posting and it's less alignment indicative than say doing it in a 72/24 game.
And I've got a weakish town read coming out of Wheats ISO? I like the progression in his reads/thoughts and how they flow from the sort of early scum read on Gemma and Shadow to the increased strength in read on Shadow and then the consideration of how LW fits in with his Shadow scum read in Post 263. Would like to hear a little more re; his Shadow read outside of "Interactions with Gemma feels pockety" and a little more about his thoughts on other players inside the game but yeah, can follow where his reads/heads at even when I disagree with it.
Right I forgot you made this read. I don't think it's a bad read, I think that part of the LW read is a good look when I approach it from that angle, yeah. My 40/60 is from the way I feel like he's kind of angling on LW, I skimmed his ISO last night and kind of felt like he was going out of his way to be sketched out by him. Is not a strong read by any means.
I liked 176 at the time and had a slight townread on him for that, but the progression from there didn't feel entirely natural to me. If you take his ISO as a whole, he comes out with a strong scumread on me and shadow, gets paranoid pocket-y tingles from LW, and proceeds to dedicate almost the entirety of his efforts after that to pushing on LW. It feels a little strange to move into a tunnel like that?
I'd like it if you shared your thoughts on 288 in particular, because I struggle to see that line of investigation wrt scum theater to be something that he genuinely thinks is meaningful? My understanding of LW's post was just that he saw scum theater between me and you and that Nancy was just a bystander, but WG seems to be interpreting it differently. How did you interpret that post from LW? Probably worth mentioning that while I do have a decent-ish townread on LW, I'm not really digging too deeply into his posts at this point because I've essentially written him off as insane and am waiting for more of a trajectory in his ISO before I really try to get a solid read on him.
Also ftr, part of the reason I directed your attention to that Vaimes quote was because um, I also was kind of weirded out by the way you just accepted my KJ post at face value. Like, I intentionally wrote that post to be as stupidly vague and dumpster-y as possible and you didn't bat an eyelid. But yeah your explanation to Vaimes makes sense. Your um, response to my fonti case was better, heh.
@Vaimes: can you quote the Nancy posts that you think are town indicative?
~~~~~
The entire back and forth between Lissa and Nancy is like never s/s; I would especially stake like 17 Doritos that that recent conversation always takes place in scum chat, and will clear the other if one flips scum.
~~~~~
Just for complete clarity, /barn is short for barnacle, basically to attach oneself to an argument or point but only freeload off of it without really adding anything yourself.
Also kind of townreading you, which means I'm back to hrming at Rhand.
I have vague feelings that he's cozying up to LW.
Can we like, talk about this? I have never once read lastwhisper and thought “you know what, that makes complete and total sense”, and I’m just not sure how town!Rhand (or much of anyone) could do that to this extent.
~~~~~
@Gemma: FWIW I have wheat on the scum side of null, but I often throw unalignments in my notes, and sometimes drop them in thread. It’s especially helpful because I don’t particularly like to back read late in the game.
My current read on Nancy is "lol", hence her comfy home in the lolbracket.
Re: 216, tone deafness isn't something I typically attribute with villagers but I think the complete lack of recognition that I was trolling in my early posts is something that marginally feels town to me with the way she's put it there. I actually find myself believing that she did take me seriously as a person who really was trying to make people believe that she was town by calling herself confirmed town. And I'm not at all surprised that she might be on that level, given she's from MS. What clinched it though was the way that she talked up her town game. It doesn't feel intuitive for a level 0-1 scum player to go there in her second post of the game.
Okay, good to know, for once I didn’t misinterpret anything. Lol. Why aren’t you more interested in trying to sort me?
If you know my meta in the slightest, you’d know that I frequently get mistakenly scumread on D1. There is nothing wrong in finding a post “wolfy” but for you to place a bad vote on me based on on single post doesn’t really strike me as all that villagery.
What about the rest of my ISO, do you also find that wolfy as well? FYI, someone who I play a lot with on MS, frequently uses that expression, so I guess it kind’ve rubbed off on me and yes, that player was town in every single game I’ve played with them in. I’d be more than happy to give you a link to their ISO’s in their games if you like? I had this happen in another game I was in, where I got wrongly scumread for doing something very similar.
What do you think of Lissa voting me based on her not liking a specific expression that seems obviously to me - anyway NAi but ignoring the post you quoted?
These are posts that happened.
The whole "I'm just doing this thing a townie did", is like, level 0 scum process, and she's clearly not reading the thread given her question to me about you (and later about Rhand). The worst is the third, though, which is like, a completely transparent attempt to discredit Lissa and turn me against her.
But then her gross thing with Lissa happened and I think at this point she's playing on too many levels if she's mafia and I don't think she's capable of that so I pretty much just think she's town here most of the time. It's sort of unfortunate because she's never going to eat a nightkill and she's never going to be cleared and yet I think she's probably town and I just want nothing to do with her toxicity but there she is, inexorably a mafiascum player in this game.
but other than that, gosh dang, that’s a solid case. I’m anxiously awaiting Rhand’s reply.
Vaimes side-eyes the tone in this post
Tone reads on me are always accurate and have never failed in the past.
But for real, posts like Gemma’s remind me just how bad I am at this game even though I’d like to think I’m not. I just don’t have the fortitude to make an analytical break down this early in the game.
He never makes this post as mafia because as a wolf he would first and foremost relish the idea of out-braining and out-analysising me (yes that is a word) and of pocketing me in general, and admitting that he ultimately just wouldn't be capable of doing that while buddying me as hard as he has been this game is just not what his process as a wolf looks like. shadow finds satisfaction in method and there's no satisfaction in honeying a townread. He lacks confidence in the level of his game and he's not a wolf.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
i sort of dislike nancy drew's confidence on townread with me tbh
not really enough progression doesnt seem that natural, like i remember nancy drew going like "sheep having me as town is acceptable" sort of didnt really see her bringing me up again until she goes sheep never scum?
so ignoring my hard tunnel on Gemma, and shadow for now, still think there is there is scum there, if not both
Nancy
using someone else to explain why something you did can be townie, just feels wrong, because then it just feels like you did it because it looks townie, but I could be completely wrong here
thanks to shadow for explain the full details of /barn
and anyone else that explained it
I agree with him in that Nancy/Lissa are probably never W/W, especially not with day chat...
Vaimes called Gemma a butt, hes lock!town :3
a point on Rhand, not that I support lurkers, but him, hopping in for only one or two posts is pretty normal, honestly even his rvs vote, and how he switched to Gemma feels like Rhand from Arhkam, but Ive never seen his scum!game, and thats meta (pure meta reads are meh), but I dont particularly think his posts sound scummy either
Shadow Can we like, talk about this? I have never once read lastwhisper and thought “you know what, that makes complete and total sense”, and I’m just not sure how town!Rhand (or much of anyone) could do that to this extent.
ya god forbid someone thinks I made a coherent thought...
I will have more time to post tomorrow and Weds, I will be around
I didn’t know what else to do because she was refusing to listen to anything I said.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It is not necessary to accept everything as true, one must only accept it as necessary. ~Kafka
i sort of dislike nancy drew's confidence on townread with me tbh
not really enough progression doesnt seem that natural, like i remember nancy drew going like "sheep having me as town is acceptable" sort of didnt really see her bringing me up again until she goes sheep never scum?
Yeah, I probably shouldn’t have said that. I constzntly get into trouble for doing that. What I should have said, is that your one of my strongest townreads. In no particular order, I’m liking you, Vaimes and LW for town. Lissa may possibly be town evehthough she’s being kind of nasty and I think unfair to me.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It is not necessary to accept everything as true, one must only accept it as necessary. ~Kafka
The entire back and forth between Lissa and Nancy is like never s/s; I would especially stake like 17 Doritos that that recent conversation always takes place in scum chat, and will clear the other if one flips scum.
Kinda dislike the Doritos thing here, feels like overselling the read given what it is. It's a... pretty straightforward/easy thought and I think that kind of thing, even in as silly of a form as this one, is much more intuitive to attach to something where there's even a little actual controversy.
so ignoring my hard tunnel on Gemma, and shadow for now, still think there is there is scum there, if not both
Nancy
using someone else to explain why something you did can be townie, just feels wrong, because then it just feels like you did it because it looks townie, but I could be completely wrong here
thanks to shadow for explain the full details of /barn
and anyone else that explained it
I agree with him in that Nancy/Lissa are probably never W/W, especially not with day chat...
Vaimes called Gemma a butt, hes lock!town :3
a point on Rhand, not that I support lurkers, but him, hopping in for only one or two posts is pretty normal, honestly even his rvs vote, and how he switched to Gemma feels like Rhand from Arhkam, but Ive never seen his scum!game, and thats meta (pure meta reads are meh), but I dont particularly think his posts sound scummy either
Shadow Can we like, talk about this? I have never once read lastwhisper and thought “you know what, that makes complete and total sense”, and I’m just not sure how town!Rhand (or much of anyone) could do that to this extent.
ya god forbid someone thinks I made a coherent thought...
I will have more time to post tomorrow and Weds, I will be around
I didn’t know what else to do because she was refusing to listen to anything I said.
i sort of dislike nancy drew's confidence on townread with me tbh
not really enough progression doesnt seem that natural, like i remember nancy drew going like "sheep having me as town is acceptable" sort of didnt really see her bringing me up again until she goes sheep never scum?
Yeah, I probably shouldn’t have said that. I constzntly get into trouble for doing that. What I should have said, is that your one of my strongest townreads. In no particular order, I’m liking you, Vaimes and LW for town. Lissa may possibly be town evehthough she’s being kind of nasty and I think unfair to me.
How exactly have I been nasty?
I am playing the game in a pretty normal manner, again, if you find someone not just blindly accepting the interpretation of/meaning of things you want them to to be nasty, you are going to have a bad time with werewolf/mafia, and also like, life.
If I felt the meta dive you were suggesting would be actually useful, I would have done it. I have no doubt that the person you were describing says that saying, I do not need to fact check that. It has no value to me beyond how you have talked about it, which is sadly villagery in an infuriating sort of way. I don't doubt that it is true or at least that you believe it to be and it doesn't really make a difference to me if it actually is. That person is not you. Declaring something to be blanket NAI because it is NAI for a single person is not... how it works. Not accepting that is not unreasonable or nasty or unfair. What it in particular is not is nasty; it is simply me playing the game, and you have a very odd definition of nasty if "playing the game in a way you don't like" falls under it.
@Vaimes: can you quote the Nancy posts that you think are town indicative?
~~~~~
The entire back and forth between Lissa and Nancy is like never s/s; I would especially stake like 17 Doritos that that recent conversation always takes place in scum chat, and will clear the other if one flips scum.
~~~~~
Just for complete clarity, /barn is short for barnacle, basically to attach oneself to an argument or point but only freeload off of it without really adding anything yourself.
Also kind of townreading you, which means I'm back to hrming at Rhand.
I have vague feelings that he's cozying up to LW.
Can we like, talk about this? I have never once read lastwhisper and thought “you know what, that makes complete and total sense”, and I’m just not sure how town!Rhand (or much of anyone) could do that to this extent.
~~~~~
@Gemma: FWIW I have wheat on the scum side of null, but I often throw unalignments in my notes, and sometimes drop them in thread. It’s especially helpful because I don’t particularly like to back read late in the game.
My current read on Nancy is "lol", hence her comfy home in the lolbracket.
Re: 216, tone deafness isn't something I typically attribute with villagers but I think the complete lack of recognition that I was trolling in my early posts is something that marginally feels town to me with the way she's put it there. I actually find myself believing that she did take me seriously as a person who really was trying to make people believe that she was town by calling herself confirmed town. And I'm not at all surprised that she might be on that level, given she's from MS. What clinched it though was the way that she talked up her town game. It doesn't feel intuitive for a level 0-1 scum player to go there in her second post of the game.
Okay, good to know, for once I didn’t misinterpret anything. Lol. Why aren’t you more interested in trying to sort me?
If you know my meta in the slightest, you’d know that I frequently get mistakenly scumread on D1. There is nothing wrong in finding a post “wolfy” but for you to place a bad vote on me based on on single post doesn’t really strike me as all that villagery.
What about the rest of my ISO, do you also find that wolfy as well? FYI, someone who I play a lot with on MS, frequently uses that expression, so I guess it kind’ve rubbed off on me and yes, that player was town in every single game I’ve played with them in. I’d be more than happy to give you a link to their ISO’s in their games if you like? I had this happen in another game I was in, where I got wrongly scumread for doing something very similar.
What do you think of Lissa voting me based on her not liking a specific expression that seems obviously to me - anyway NAi but ignoring the post you quoted?
These are posts that happened.
The whole "I'm just doing this thing a townie did", is like, level 0 scum process, and she's clearly not reading the thread given her question to me about you (and later about Rhand). The worst is the third, though, which is like, a completely transparent attempt to discredit Lissa and turn me against her.
But then her gross thing with Lissa happened and I think at this point she's playing on too many levels if she's mafia and I don't think she's capable of that so I pretty much just think she's town here most of the time. It's sort of unfortunate because she's never going to eat a nightkill and she's never going to be cleared and yet I think she's probably town and I just want nothing to do with her toxicity but there she is, inexorably a mafiascum player in this game.
So yeah my read on her is "lol".
Thanks for talking about me rather than addressing my posts directly. FYI, I don’t know wtf you’ve got against MS but they’re a helluva lot nicer to me over there. What exactly is “toxic” to you about fighting off what I perceive to be an, ill-thought out push on me? I’d like to also ask @Lissa that same question.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It is not necessary to accept everything as true, one must only accept it as necessary. ~Kafka
@Vaimes: can you quote the Nancy posts that you think are town indicative?
~~~~~
The entire back and forth between Lissa and Nancy is like never s/s; I would especially stake like 17 Doritos that that recent conversation always takes place in scum chat, and will clear the other if one flips scum.
~~~~~
Just for complete clarity, /barn is short for barnacle, basically to attach oneself to an argument or point but only freeload off of it without really adding anything yourself.
Also kind of townreading you, which means I'm back to hrming at Rhand.
I have vague feelings that he's cozying up to LW.
Can we like, talk about this? I have never once read lastwhisper and thought “you know what, that makes complete and total sense”, and I’m just not sure how town!Rhand (or much of anyone) could do that to this extent.
~~~~~
@Gemma: FWIW I have wheat on the scum side of null, but I often throw unalignments in my notes, and sometimes drop them in thread. It’s especially helpful because I don’t particularly like to back read late in the game.
My current read on Nancy is "lol", hence her comfy home in the lolbracket.
Re: 216, tone deafness isn't something I typically attribute with villagers but I think the complete lack of recognition that I was trolling in my early posts is something that marginally feels town to me with the way she's put it there. I actually find myself believing that she did take me seriously as a person who really was trying to make people believe that she was town by calling herself confirmed town. And I'm not at all surprised that she might be on that level, given she's from MS. What clinched it though was the way that she talked up her town game. It doesn't feel intuitive for a level 0-1 scum player to go there in her second post of the game.
Okay, good to know, for once I didn’t misinterpret anything. Lol. Why aren’t you more interested in trying to sort me?
If you know my meta in the slightest, you’d know that I frequently get mistakenly scumread on D1. There is nothing wrong in finding a post “wolfy” but for you to place a bad vote on me based on on single post doesn’t really strike me as all that villagery.
What about the rest of my ISO, do you also find that wolfy as well? FYI, someone who I play a lot with on MS, frequently uses that expression, so I guess it kind’ve rubbed off on me and yes, that player was town in every single game I’ve played with them in. I’d be more than happy to give you a link to their ISO’s in their games if you like? I had this happen in another game I was in, where I got wrongly scumread for doing something very similar.
What do you think of Lissa voting me based on her not liking a specific expression that seems obviously to me - anyway NAi but ignoring the post you quoted?
These are posts that happened.
The whole "I'm just doing this thing a townie did", is like, level 0 scum process, and she's clearly not reading the thread given her question to me about you (and later about Rhand). The worst is the third, though, which is like, a completely transparent attempt to discredit Lissa and turn me against her.
But then her gross thing with Lissa happened and I think at this point she's playing on too many levels if she's mafia and I don't think she's capable of that so I pretty much just think she's town here most of the time. It's sort of unfortunate because she's never going to eat a nightkill and she's never going to be cleared and yet I think she's probably town and I just want nothing to do with her toxicity but there she is, inexorably a mafiascum player in this game.
So yeah my read on her is "lol".
Thanks for talking about me rather than addressing my posts directly. FYI, I don’t know wtf you’ve got against MS but they’re a helluva lot nicer to me over there. What exactly is “toxic” to you about fighting off what I perceive to be an, ill-thought out push on me? I’d like to also ask @Lissa that same question.
I don't believe I ever called you toxic. I just think you have a pretty bizarre and frustrating to work with perspective that massively lacks both self awareness and any awareness of other people's perspective and also seem to have a really, really self... focused/centric POV in terms of how you perceive things other people say about you, like you seemed to think me scumreading and voting you meant you were the overwhelming center of my universe. And you seem to take me not accepting your self-clear with someone else's meta/not interpreting what you posted how you wanted as like... some sort of personal affront.
Nancy, I don't really want to spend my time explaining to you how your behavior is not okay, is not why I signed up for this game. I think you should start treating Lissa a little less like trash and a little more like you might treat her if she were a person in the same room as you.
And yeah, this is a forum game and sometimes there are reasons why I don't answer people's questions exactly when they want me to or in the way that they want me to. If you want me to meet you on equal terms, a good way to start would be to meet me on equal terms first, and actually come to me from an informed position rather than expect me to feed you what you want to know about my ISO.
Feel free to continue to be passive aggressive and hostile and I'll just ignore you and play the game with people who don't screw with my mental health.
The entire back and forth between Lissa and Nancy is like never s/s; I would especially stake like 17 Doritos that that recent conversation always takes place in scum chat, and will clear the other if one flips scum.
Kinda dislike the Doritos thing here, feels like overselling the read given what it is. It's a... pretty straightforward/easy thought and I think that kind of thing, even in as silly of a form as this one, is much more intuitive to attach to something where there's even a little actual controversy.
Why do you think that's a scum thing? I use humor to relieve tension a bunch, my girlfriend does also, and I think a lot of people do this? Am not sure I understand what you're seeing here wrt scum shadow.
The entire back and forth between Lissa and Nancy is like never s/s; I would especially stake like 17 Doritos that that recent conversation always takes place in scum chat, and will clear the other if one flips scum.
Kinda dislike the Doritos thing here, feels like overselling the read given what it is. It's a... pretty straightforward/easy thought and I think that kind of thing, even in as silly of a form as this one, is much more intuitive to attach to something where there's even a little actual controversy.
Why do you think that's a scum thing? I use humor to relieve tension a bunch, my girlfriend does also, and I think a lot of people do this? Am not sure I understand what you're seeing here wrt scum shadow.
I'm not really sure what tension it's relieving there? Like that wasn't really what I was thinking of it as doing at all.
I think of that kind of comment as much more of a bravado-y type thing, maybe I'm way underweighting the humor component of what exactly was invoked here. But if it's bravado-y, a read of me/Nancy not w/w makes not a ton of sense to attach bravado to because of the sheer easiness/uncontroversiality (afaict anyway) of it.
Yeah okay I think I get you. Affection because interesting and spicy is town, etc.
I just read it as a humor to break through an icky, and not as an alignment thing.
Did you think my earlier post about him was insane?
Nah I thought it was pretty reasonable. Felt maybe... strong? For what it was but I don't really have the full person/meta context. But definitely not insane. Just not an "override all else" level thing for me.
I keep reading it and thinking about it.
Shadow is someone I've been having trouble really ending up somewhere conclusive on overall.
Yeah okay I think I get you. Affection because interesting and spicy is town, etc.
I just read it as a humor to break through an icky, and not as an alignment thing.
Did you think my earlier post about him was insane?
Nah I thought it was pretty reasonable. Felt maybe... strong? For what it was but I don't really have the full person/meta context. But definitely not insane. Just not an "override all else" level thing for me.
I keep reading it and thinking about it.
Shadow is someone I've been having trouble really ending up somewhere conclusive on overall.
Yeah it's hard to tell sometimes how personality reads are perceived by people who don't know the personality. Um, I don't really expect anyone else to read it and say well gosh darn I'm sold, but not insane is hopeful.
In case you haven't noticed I'm trying to TMI everyone everything this game.
Was kinda dissatisfied with my existing list of non-townreads, and didn't really feel like voting any of them right now.
Felt like he stuck out like a sore thumb among my townreads so I read him over again + why I backed off him and I wasn't really satisfied with it.
Okay, well keep in touch if you feel like talking about it more later on. As much as I enjoy the word nebulous, I don't love it when my reads also attract that quality.
Actually that's not always true. Sometimes I really savor having a nebulous read or two. They can be fun to relax and have a soak in, especially if they come with bath bombs.
@Gemma:
Walk me through what makes Shadow town with quotes please.
I just ran his ISO, and there’s nothing there. Which is amazing for one of the top posters of the game.
He calls Gemma town early, says he likes my questions but then does barn Gemma’s case, argues that LW’s reasoning makes no sense, throws out some unalignments and an empty reads list, votes Nancy Drew who isn’t near the bottom of his reads list but keeps saying I must be scum.
And all of that in 51 posts.
@Gemma:
Walk me through what makes Shadow town with quotes please.
I just ran his ISO, and there’s nothing there. Which is amazing for one of the top posters of the game.
He calls Gemma town early, says he likes my questions but then does barn Gemma’s case, argues that LW’s reasoning makes no sense, throws out some unalignments and an empty reads list, votes Nancy Drew who isn’t near the bottom of his reads list but keeps saying I must be scum.
And all of that in 51 posts.
You can also read the game.
I just ran through your ISO, and there's nothing there. You call Gemma/shadow/Regfan scum early, say you mindmeld with LW despite LW being insane and argue that Gemma's reasoning makes no sense, say that people should put Gemma to L-2 to force her to claim, vote shadow with the intent to keep the game moving but ignore everything than anyone has posted and don't contribute anything, and keep saying that Gemma must be scum.
And all of that in 6 days.
Nancy, I don't really want to spend my time explaining to you how your behavior is not okay, is not why I signed up for this game. I think you should start treating Lissa a little less like trash and a little more like you might treat her if she were a person in the same room as you.
And yeah, this is a forum game and sometimes there are reasons why I don't answer people's questions exactly when they want me to or in the way that they want me to. If you want me to meet you on equal terms, a good way to start would be to meet me on equal terms first, and actually come to me from an informed position rather than expect me to feed you what you want to know about my ISO.
Feel free to continue to be passive aggressive and hostile and I'll just ignore you and play the game with people who don't screw with my mental health.
Obviously you aren’t interested in answering my questions. At least Lissa isn’t playing games and at least respects me enough tobe honest with me.
When you decide to stop induldging in ******* character assassination, I will talk to you. Otherwise. I dont desire any further communication from you. Finally, I can see the fakeness that people were referencing. Don’t worry, I won’t be fooled again. Don’t even try.
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It is not necessary to accept everything as true, one must only accept it as necessary. ~Kafka
@Gemma:
Walk me through what makes Shadow town with quotes please.
I just ran his ISO, and there’s nothing there. Which is amazing for one of the top posters of the game.
He calls Gemma town early, says he likes my questions but then does barn Gemma’s case, argues that LW’s reasoning makes no sense, throws out some unalignments and an empty reads list, votes Nancy Drew who isn’t near the bottom of his reads list but keeps saying I must be scum.
And all of that in 51 posts.
You can also read the game.
I just ran through your ISO, and there's nothing there. You call Gemma/shadow/Regfan scum early, say you mindmeld with LW despite LW being insane and argue that Gemma's reasoning makes no sense, say that people should put Gemma to L-2 to force her to claim, vote shadow with the intent to keep the game moving but ignore everything than anyone has posted and don't contribute anything, and keep saying that Gemma must be scum.
And all of that in 6 days.
Aaaand we’re back at Gemma not answering my questions
@Vaimes: can you quote the Nancy posts that you think are town indicative?
~~~~~
The entire back and forth between Lissa and Nancy is like never s/s; I would especially stake like 17 Doritos that that recent conversation always takes place in scum chat, and will clear the other if one flips scum.
~~~~~
Just for complete clarity, /barn is short for barnacle, basically to attach oneself to an argument or point but only freeload off of it without really adding anything yourself.
Also kind of townreading you, which means I'm back to hrming at Rhand.
I have vague feelings that he's cozying up to LW.
Can we like, talk about this? I have never once read lastwhisper and thought “you know what, that makes complete and total sense”, and I’m just not sure how town!Rhand (or much of anyone) could do that to this extent.
~~~~~
@Gemma: FWIW I have wheat on the scum side of null, but I often throw unalignments in my notes, and sometimes drop them in thread. It’s especially helpful because I don’t particularly like to back read late in the game.
My current read on Nancy is "lol", hence her comfy home in the lolbracket.
Re: 216, tone deafness isn't something I typically attribute with villagers but I think the complete lack of recognition that I was trolling in my early posts is something that marginally feels town to me with the way she's put it there. I actually find myself believing that she did take me seriously as a person who really was trying to make people believe that she was town by calling herself confirmed town. And I'm not at all surprised that she might be on that level, given she's from MS. What clinched it though was the way that she talked up her town game. It doesn't feel intuitive for a level 0-1 scum player to go there in her second post of the game.
Okay, good to know, for once I didn’t misinterpret anything. Lol. Why aren’t you more interested in trying to sort me?
If you know my meta in the slightest, you’d know that I frequently get mistakenly scumread on D1. There is nothing wrong in finding a post “wolfy” but for you to place a bad vote on me based on on single post doesn’t really strike me as all that villagery.
What about the rest of my ISO, do you also find that wolfy as well? FYI, someone who I play a lot with on MS, frequently uses that expression, so I guess it kind’ve rubbed off on me and yes, that player was town in every single game I’ve played with them in. I’d be more than happy to give you a link to their ISO’s in their games if you like? I had this happen in another game I was in, where I got wrongly scumread for doing something very similar.
What do you think of Lissa voting me based on her not liking a specific expression that seems obviously to me - anyway NAi but ignoring the post you quoted?
These are posts that happened.
The whole "I'm just doing this thing a townie did", is like, level 0 scum process, and she's clearly not reading the thread given her question to me about you (and later about Rhand). The worst is the third, though, which is like, a completely transparent attempt to discredit Lissa and turn me against her.
But then her gross thing with Lissa happened and I think at this point she's playing on too many levels if she's mafia and I don't think she's capable of that so I pretty much just think she's town here most of the time. It's sort of unfortunate because she's never going to eat a nightkill and she's never going to be cleared and yet I think she's probably town and I just want nothing to do with her toxicity but there she is, inexorably a mafiascum player in this game.
So yeah my read on her is "lol".
Thanks for talking about me rather than addressing my posts directly. FYI, I don’t know wtf you’ve got against MS but they’re a helluva lot nicer to me over there. What exactly is “toxic” to you about fighting off what I perceive to be an, ill-thought out push on me? I’d like to also ask @Lissa that same question.
I don't believe I ever called you toxic. I just think you have a pretty bizarre and frustrating to work with perspective that massively lacks both self awareness and any awareness of other people's perspective and also seem to have a really, really self... focused/centric POV in terms of how you perceive things other people say about you, like you seemed to think me scumreading and voting you meant you were the overwhelming center of my universe. And you seem to take me not accepting your self-clear with someone else's meta/not interpreting what you posted how you wanted as like... some sort of personal affront.
No, that was Gemma. Thank you for at least being honest with me eventhough I feel it was unnessarily hardh. What I wanted to know was why was I getting raked over the coals to stop what I perceived to be a wrong push on me? What is so wrong with that? Aren’t villas supposed to try to avoid getting mislynched? *extremely confuzzled*
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It is not necessary to accept everything as true, one must only accept it as necessary. ~Kafka
Let me rephraze.
You pointed out earlier that it’s odd that Shadow doesn’t vote me. Don’t you think it’s off that he votes outside of his bottom 3 instead?
You seem to agree with him that LW makes no sense. Why is that?
Don’t you think that empty reads lists and random unalignments are more likely to come from scum than town?
Starting my case on Gemma. I’ve noticed how she persists in twisting Rhand’s questions and tries to shade LW. Her posting style sttikes me as being highly manipulative. I’m not surprised by her response to me because she’s all too aware that won’t flybwith me.
This id just the first two pages but they sound so much worse on reread.
Vaimes
What is this light ping?
Why do you like Sheep?
Why are you nitpicking buddying vs pocketing?
@Vaimes: why are you not answering this?
I find myself agreeing with LW this game, which is weird
unvote
@Gemma: Have I played with you before? I think I have, but I’m not sure. Are you always this happy? And do you always buddy up to Regfan?
Hard unvote out of RVS is also >rand scum. Interaction with the hard unvote and the question to me looks like setting up a "peaceful encounter". In other words, agenda.
More importantly, these questions will generate alignment information 2.666% of the the time. Mischaracterizing my Regfan scumread as buddying is an attempt to give his questioning some manner of relevance that it entirely lacks.
You struggle to get a read on LW, but have nothing to say when I spoonfeed you his alignment. You're dead to me.
I don’t trust you.
And by not answering my questions bit just voting me instead, you’ve confirmed my gut.
vote Gemma
Also, I do think LW is town. The weirdness comes from previous experience.
This vote is fake because his suspicions were fake.
Villager Rhand: gosh, have I played with Gemma before? She sure is happy, and memeing in RVS, that's really suspicious, oh my god I knew it, she just ignored my questions and voted me, she's a wolf!
I don’t trust you.
And by not answering my questions bit just voting me instead, you’ve confirmed my gut.
I'm too happy to be town, yeah.
What about my other questions? I’m trying to get a hold on your meta.
This is an attempt to weave villager motivation into his questioning of me. If he were a villager, he wouldn't need to explain what he was doing. Because he is mafia, he feels the need to do so, for the sake of appearances.
Er, I wasn't answering your question there. I was agreeing with your logic, that there's no way I could be this happy as town, therefore I must be mafia.
Why do you think LW is town?
I think you can be happy as both alignments.
It’s your buddying and the amount of early reads you’re spewing that worry me more.
LW is probably town because of mindmeld.
Buddying didn't occur, isn't a thing this early in the game anyway, and any concern over my reads wasn't mentioned at all before now, because he's making this all up as he goes along. There is furthermore no mafia motivation for providing reads early in the game. In fact, there is a fair bit of mafia motivation for not providing reads early in the game. He hasn't talked about my mafia motivation, because he can't. I have none, and he knows it.
Mindmeld is an entirely nondescript reason to townread someone and contains no thought. Note his townread is now qualified by "probably". Mindmeld is a mafia favorite when it comes to townreading townies, because pocketing.
Rhand is mafia.
I will finish casing her ISO and finish my thoughts but I’m not at all liking what I’m seeing so far.
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Gemma ~ )) - sheep, Lissa ) - Vaimes -- Regfan )) LW, Nancy ) ---- )) shadow ) -- % )) > [Roz] -- KJ ) ---- Rhand )) -------- WG ))
- equals ~2.5%
)) hard bracket, each hard bracket covers 10-20%
) soft bracket, compartmentalizes groupings within a hard bracket
% is rand (75%)
> poe marker
[] square bracketed slots are not in the lynch pool, even if they are in the poe
There is also the lolbracket, for those special someones.
Representationally it is on the outside margins of the 90% mark, but really it exists in a separate temporal dimension between 89.9% and 89.99% where percentages do not exist.
Unless shadow was low-key scumreading WG or sheep, this doesn't feel like an intuitive thing to mention at this juncture.
And shadow isn't a level 0-1 wolf with no conception of Interesting Reads.
Plan A is that I say this post alone spews shadow a wolf if WG flips mafia.
Plan B is that I never make this post so that I can't be wrong and shadow has no idea that I'm on to him.
If Plan A falls through then at least I've got something to fall back on besides my damaged ego.
Think the pop in & active lurking is bad, think it's less bad than if it was another website though; remember seeing a lot of players do it inside Jurassic Park and used it to push through multiple mslynches there, think it's more to do with the "Longer day phases -> Slower games" type thing where people are "keeping up" but having times where they're feeling like actually posting and it's less alignment indicative than say doing it in a 72/24 game.
Show off.
Run through your WG read when you get time / comment on what I dumped about him?
Getting close to pass out time.
A lot of things in life would be nice.
Goodnight!
@Vaimes: can you quote the Nancy posts that you think are town indicative?
~~~~~
The entire back and forth between Lissa and Nancy is like never s/s; I would especially stake like 17 Doritos that that recent conversation always takes place in scum chat, and will clear the other if one flips scum.
~~~~~
Just for complete clarity, /barn is short for barnacle, basically to attach oneself to an argument or point but only freeload off of it without really adding anything yourself. Can we like, talk about this? I have never once read lastwhisper and thought “you know what, that makes complete and total sense”, and I’m just not sure how town!Rhand (or much of anyone) could do that to this extent.
~~~~~
@Gemma: FWIW I have wheat on the scum side of null, but I often throw unalignments in my notes, and sometimes drop them in thread. It’s especially helpful because I don’t particularly like to back read late in the game.
Nancy
using someone else to explain why something you did can be townie, just feels wrong, because then it just feels like you did it because it looks townie, but I could be completely wrong here
thanks to shadow for explain the full details of /barn
and anyone else that explained it
I agree with him in that Nancy/Lissa are probably never W/W, especially not with day chat...
Vaimes called Gemma a butt, hes lock!town :3
a point on Rhand, not that I support lurkers, but him, hopping in for only one or two posts is pretty normal, honestly even his rvs vote, and how he switched to Gemma feels like Rhand from Arhkam, but Ive never seen his scum!game, and thats meta (pure meta reads are meh), but I dont particularly think his posts sound scummy either
Shadow
Can we like, talk about this? I have never once read lastwhisper and thought “you know what, that makes complete and total sense”, and I’m just not sure how town!Rhand (or much of anyone) could do that to this extent.
ya god forbid someone thinks I made a coherent thought...
I will have more time to post tomorrow and Weds, I will be around
Wow, how did I miss this post being a thing last night.
You dumped about WG? I also missed that.
I'm so bad at this.
Also yes a showoff, only for you Reg
Right I forgot you made this read. I don't think it's a bad read, I think that part of the LW read is a good look when I approach it from that angle, yeah. My 40/60 is from the way I feel like he's kind of angling on LW, I skimmed his ISO last night and kind of felt like he was going out of his way to be sketched out by him. Is not a strong read by any means.
I liked 176 at the time and had a slight townread on him for that, but the progression from there didn't feel entirely natural to me. If you take his ISO as a whole, he comes out with a strong scumread on me and shadow, gets paranoid pocket-y tingles from LW, and proceeds to dedicate almost the entirety of his efforts after that to pushing on LW. It feels a little strange to move into a tunnel like that?
I'd like it if you shared your thoughts on 288 in particular, because I struggle to see that line of investigation wrt scum theater to be something that he genuinely thinks is meaningful? My understanding of LW's post was just that he saw scum theater between me and you and that Nancy was just a bystander, but WG seems to be interpreting it differently. How did you interpret that post from LW? Probably worth mentioning that while I do have a decent-ish townread on LW, I'm not really digging too deeply into his posts at this point because I've essentially written him off as insane and am waiting for more of a trajectory in his ISO before I really try to get a solid read on him.
Also ftr, part of the reason I directed your attention to that Vaimes quote was because um, I also was kind of weirded out by the way you just accepted my KJ post at face value. Like, I intentionally wrote that post to be as stupidly vague and dumpster-y as possible and you didn't bat an eyelid. But yeah your explanation to Vaimes makes sense. Your um, response to my fonti case was better, heh.
My current read on Nancy is "lol", hence her comfy home in the lolbracket.
Re: 216, tone deafness isn't something I typically attribute with villagers but I think the complete lack of recognition that I was trolling in my early posts is something that marginally feels town to me with the way she's put it there. I actually find myself believing that she did take me seriously as a person who really was trying to make people believe that she was town by calling herself confirmed town. And I'm not at all surprised that she might be on that level, given she's from MS. What clinched it though was the way that she talked up her town game. It doesn't feel intuitive for a level 0-1 scum player to go there in her second post of the game.
My um, hottake... was that Nancy was mafia.
These are posts that happened.
The whole "I'm just doing this thing a townie did", is like, level 0 scum process, and she's clearly not reading the thread given her question to me about you (and later about Rhand). The worst is the third, though, which is like, a completely transparent attempt to discredit Lissa and turn me against her.
But then her gross thing with Lissa happened and I think at this point she's playing on too many levels if she's mafia and I don't think she's capable of that so I pretty much just think she's town here most of the time. It's sort of unfortunate because she's never going to eat a nightkill and she's never going to be cleared and yet I think she's probably town and I just want nothing to do with her toxicity but there she is, inexorably a mafiascum player in this game.
So yeah my read on her is "lol".
He never makes this post as mafia because as a wolf he would first and foremost relish the idea of out-braining and out-analysising me (yes that is a word) and of pocketing me in general, and admitting that he ultimately just wouldn't be capable of doing that while buddying me as hard as he has been this game is just not what his process as a wolf looks like. shadow finds satisfaction in method and there's no satisfaction in honeying a townread. He lacks confidence in the level of his game and he's not a wolf.
It's all good.
Hey Shadow, What is your opinion on Reg?
Hey Reg, what is your opinion on Shadow?
not really enough progression doesnt seem that natural, like i remember nancy drew going like "sheep having me as town is acceptable" sort of didnt really see her bringing me up again until she goes sheep never scum?
I didn’t know what else to do because she was refusing to listen to anything I said.
Yeah, I probably shouldn’t have said that. I constzntly get into trouble for doing that. What I should have said, is that your one of my strongest townreads. In no particular order, I’m liking you, Vaimes and LW for town. Lissa may possibly be town evehthough she’s being kind of nasty and I think unfair to me.
Kinda dislike the Doritos thing here, feels like overselling the read given what it is. It's a... pretty straightforward/easy thought and I think that kind of thing, even in as silly of a form as this one, is much more intuitive to attach to something where there's even a little actual controversy.
What are you responding to here?
How exactly have I been nasty?
I am playing the game in a pretty normal manner, again, if you find someone not just blindly accepting the interpretation of/meaning of things you want them to to be nasty, you are going to have a bad time with werewolf/mafia, and also like, life.
If I felt the meta dive you were suggesting would be actually useful, I would have done it. I have no doubt that the person you were describing says that saying, I do not need to fact check that. It has no value to me beyond how you have talked about it, which is sadly villagery in an infuriating sort of way. I don't doubt that it is true or at least that you believe it to be and it doesn't really make a difference to me if it actually is. That person is not you. Declaring something to be blanket NAI because it is NAI for a single person is not... how it works. Not accepting that is not unreasonable or nasty or unfair. What it in particular is not is nasty; it is simply me playing the game, and you have a very odd definition of nasty if "playing the game in a way you don't like" falls under it.
Thanks for talking about me rather than addressing my posts directly. FYI, I don’t know wtf you’ve got against MS but they’re a helluva lot nicer to me over there. What exactly is “toxic” to you about fighting off what I perceive to be an, ill-thought out push on me? I’d like to also ask @Lissa that same question.
I don't believe I ever called you toxic. I just think you have a pretty bizarre and frustrating to work with perspective that massively lacks both self awareness and any awareness of other people's perspective and also seem to have a really, really self... focused/centric POV in terms of how you perceive things other people say about you, like you seemed to think me scumreading and voting you meant you were the overwhelming center of my universe. And you seem to take me not accepting your self-clear with someone else's meta/not interpreting what you posted how you wanted as like... some sort of personal affront.
And yeah, this is a forum game and sometimes there are reasons why I don't answer people's questions exactly when they want me to or in the way that they want me to. If you want me to meet you on equal terms, a good way to start would be to meet me on equal terms first, and actually come to me from an informed position rather than expect me to feed you what you want to know about my ISO.
Feel free to continue to be passive aggressive and hostile and I'll just ignore you and play the game with people who don't screw with my mental health.
I'm not really sure what tension it's relieving there? Like that wasn't really what I was thinking of it as doing at all.
I think of that kind of comment as much more of a bravado-y type thing, maybe I'm way underweighting the humor component of what exactly was invoked here. But if it's bravado-y, a read of me/Nancy not w/w makes not a ton of sense to attach bravado to because of the sheer easiness/uncontroversiality (afaict anyway) of it.
I just read it as a humor to break through an icky, and not as an alignment thing.
Did you think my earlier post about him was insane?
Nah I thought it was pretty reasonable. Felt maybe... strong? For what it was but I don't really have the full person/meta context. But definitely not insane. Just not an "override all else" level thing for me.
I keep reading it and thinking about it.
Shadow is someone I've been having trouble really ending up somewhere conclusive on overall.
Was kinda dissatisfied with my existing list of non-townreads, and didn't really feel like voting any of them right now.
Felt like he stuck out like a sore thumb among my townreads so I read him over again + why I backed off him and I wasn't really satisfied with it.
Okay, well keep in touch if you feel like talking about it more later on. As much as I enjoy the word nebulous, I don't love it when my reads also attract that quality.
Walk me through what makes Shadow town with quotes please.
I just ran his ISO, and there’s nothing there. Which is amazing for one of the top posters of the game.
He calls Gemma town early, says he likes my questions but then does barn Gemma’s case, argues that LW’s reasoning makes no sense, throws out some unalignments and an empty reads list, votes Nancy Drew who isn’t near the bottom of his reads list but keeps saying I must be scum.
And all of that in 51 posts.
I just ran through your ISO, and there's nothing there. You call Gemma/shadow/Regfan scum early, say you mindmeld with LW despite LW being insane and argue that Gemma's reasoning makes no sense, say that people should put Gemma to L-2 to force her to claim, vote shadow with the intent to keep the game moving but ignore everything than anyone has posted and don't contribute anything, and keep saying that Gemma must be scum.
And all of that in 6 days.
Obviously you aren’t interested in answering my questions. At least Lissa isn’t playing games and at least respects me enough tobe honest with me.
When you decide to stop induldging in ******* character assassination, I will talk to you. Otherwise. I dont desire any further communication from you. Finally, I can see the fakeness that people were referencing. Don’t worry, I won’t be fooled again. Don’t even try.
Aaaand we’re back at Gemma not answering my questions
No, that was Gemma. Thank you for at least being honest with me eventhough I feel it was unnessarily hardh. What I wanted to know was why was I getting raked over the coals to stop what I perceived to be a wrong push on me? What is so wrong with that? Aren’t villas supposed to try to avoid getting mislynched? *extremely confuzzled*
You pointed out earlier that it’s odd that Shadow doesn’t vote me. Don’t you think it’s off that he votes outside of his bottom 3 instead?
You seem to agree with him that LW makes no sense. Why is that?
Don’t you think that empty reads lists and random unalignments are more likely to come from scum than town?
This id just the first two pages but they sound so much worse on reread.
I will finish casing her ISO and finish my thoughts but I’m not at all liking what I’m seeing so far.