I was playing around with a toddler (copying him standing up and squatting) whose parents were busy and not entertaining him and then he ran into a chair and started crying.
I was playing around with a toddler (copying him standing up and squatting) whose parents were busy and not entertaining him and then he ran into a chair and started crying.
First couple quotes in Gemma's iso of Rhand don't really do anything for me but rest is fairly decent.
LW doing a line by line refutation of Gemma's townread is villagery. Like I don't really care about arguing with townreads on you but I think as a wolf you can accomplish what feels like a similar "look at me I don't care about being townread" type thing without being as extensive that I think is likely more intuitive from that mindset.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
First couple quotes in Gemma's iso of Rhand don't really do anything for me but rest is fairly decent.
LW doing a line by line refutation of Gemma's townread is villagery. Like I don't really care about arguing with townreads on you but I think as a wolf you can accomplish what feels like a similar "look at me I don't care about being townread" type thing without being as extensive that I think is likely more intuitive from that mindset.
Thoughts on players that aren't a gimme at this point?
Rhand: You...were gonna RVS vote me but then decided to vote Gemma because she quadruple posted?
What?
Shadow: What do you think of Sheep's vote on you on the end of page one? You specifically didn't like... reflexively react to it, then just started calling it hedgy. So expand on that if you would please. You saw the vote and ______.
Gemma: Right. I remember you. I recall the reason I townread you was mostly tone? I think? Not gonna do that again for sure.
Rhand: Do yuo have any other reason to note as to why LW is town? Besides just mindmeld?
Shadow: What do you think of Rhand->Gemma? The way he is interacting with her, and to a lesser extent how they are interacting together?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Also, what's your opinion on Gemma's Rhand vote + case? It's pretty much the only serious content that can be evaluated at the moment, and it's coming from someone you seem to be on the verge of townreading.
Things finally look to have cleared up/worked out RL-wise after last night, will be able to start playing this today; longer day phases most certainly something that'll assist me this game too.
@Vaimes: basically I was just reading and if a question came up I wanted answered I @'d the person.
Gemma's case seems a bit biased, but then when people do stuff like trying to prove someone scum it usually turns into "these are scummy things that this person is doing" because, like... that's the intent. There's an inherent amount of bias there. I will have more to say on this later.
But, like yes those things could be things scum are doing. It's not really like... unfairly biased. It's just coming from a place where she obviously thinks Rhand is scum.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Gemma seemed excited in a way that felt non-genuine. Compare to sheep, who seems excited in a way that DOES seem genuine.
Shadow immediately tried to clear based on that, which was what first pinged me. From then on, he continually tried to buddy Gemma which is why I'm starting to think Gemma may not actually be scum - it feels like a pocket attempt.
Gemma seemed excited in a way that felt non-genuine. Compare to sheep, who seems excited in a way that DOES seem genuine.
Shadow immediately tried to clear based on that, which was what first pinged me. From then on, he continually tried to buddy Gemma which is why I'm starting to think Gemma may not actually be scum - it feels like a pocket attempt.
can we be friends? cause honestly this is exactly how I feel, on all 3 of them
Wheat
I am never really one to comment on mind melds, but its nice to see someone else in this game, not swayed by Shadow or Gemma's terrible acting...
You got Gemma coming into the game with this fake excitement, super bubbly, whos flooding the thread with nonsense, and empty reads, and then she wants you to take her seriously, no its not happening
Shadow same thing, minus the over exaggerated excitement, fluffy, flooding the thread, literally, look at the lower end of page 3, at least we got that spew clear, no way Vaimes is ever Wolf/Wolf with Shadow...
Gemma says I am paranoid because she thinks I should be reading her as town for her posts, and again there is nothing wrong with some healthy paranoia, but I am actively scum reading both Shadow and Gemma, there is no paranoia, slight maybe, if you look at the posts where they talked in parenthesis, but still moot because there hasnt been a point where I town read either them, if I say you are scum, you answer should not be, you are just being paranoid, thats not how this works.
Sheep
I have you at a slight town lean, because I liked your entrance, and I also do want to see how you handle this activity on this site, because you were excellent in unforgiving mafia
Killjoy Gemma's case seems a bit biased, but then when people do stuff like trying to prove someone scum it usually turns into "these are scummy things that this person is doing" because, like... that's the intent.
I mean of course it will sound like that to someone, especially tho who town read who you are pushing, also interested in what more you have to say on the matter.
Vaimes
Your post towards killjoy about the double question towards rhand was nitpicky, but with that even if your questions seems forced, you still feel like you are scum hunting, also dont bother with, "are you trying to pocket me" crap, cause you are the last person I would want to pocket if I was scum
Rhand
any big difference you see between me this game, and Arkham, and whats your opinion on shadow?
First couple quotes in Gemma's iso of Rhand don't really do anything for me but rest is fairly decent.
LW doing a line by line refutation of Gemma's townread is villagery. Like I don't really care about arguing with townreads on you but I think as a wolf you can accomplish what feels like a similar "look at me I don't care about being townread" type thing without being as extensive that I think is likely more intuitive from that mindset.
tbh I always found that you can actually get a read on who is scum, by how they react to town reads on them, some players just have such forced reactions to town reads on them. Also, I never try to be scummy, and I understand scum reads are bound to happen because this is mafia, but if you worry too much about your posts sounding townie, that they just end up sounding more fake as either alignment. #unfilteredlife
also where would you lean Gemma atm? and whats your take on Shadow? Sheep? Since they were have all been vocal since game start
Regfan
Would like you opinion on shadow/Gemma when you get the chance
First couple quotes in Gemma's iso of Rhand don't really do anything for me but rest is fairly decent.
LW doing a line by line refutation of Gemma's townread is villagery. Like I don't really care about arguing with townreads on you but I think as a wolf you can accomplish what feels like a similar "look at me I don't care about being townread" type thing without being as extensive that I think is likely more intuitive from that mindset.
Thoughts on players that aren't a gimme at this point?
Don't really have much more right now.
Think Gemma's like... excitement thing is fairly clearly personality/person related more than anything else.
I keep reading 174/5/6/7 feeling like there's something to be gotten out of it and not quite getting there.
I think of reads like those on Gemma/Shadow, like that type of fairly strong/emphatic read on that type of player/interaction at this spot in the game, as a thing that comes from villagers >>rand generally. But I looked at the context because the interaction about it bugged me a little bit as possibly being a wolf springing off a villager and "stealing" that/using it to turn into a super nice foundation for a pocket.
And I thought Wheat was the first person to bring up that read and wrote up a thing about how he was probably a villager but then I figured out I missed a post and now I'm kind of confused.
I need many more day phases to read Gemma... like shes so spastic, and way more bubbly then she was in Arkham, like I almost think I should spew clear her as town, on the other hand, a part of me thinks she is just active wolving...
like she pushes me, than I tell her that her point is bad, and she pulls back
almost like shes trying to throw out claims till something sticks
I dont see my self as a superficial reader, to me it feels like you came into this game thinking this was the best play to look townie, and just cant fathom someone thinking the way you are posting this game could be scummy
Shadow
what is up with the parenthesis, I feel like you and Gemma are mocking me...
dont like this buddy/buddy you two got going this game, its creepy
You struggle to get a read on LW, but have nothing to say when I spoonfeed you his alignment. You're dead to me.
I don’t trust you.
And by not answering my questions bit just voting me instead, you’ve confirmed my gut.
vote Gemma
Also, I do think LW is town. The weirdness comes from previous experience.
This is another case of the type of read I was talking about.
Amount I'm finding it in this game makes me think it might just not baseline hold up super well in this setting but I like this particular instance anyway, think the... directness in that particular way is kind of hard to produce from not-a-real-read.
Mostly caught up, still want to go over the thread another time or two later tonight when I get time and I'll dump the rest of my thoughts then but I'm pretty certain that Sheeps town here, I kind of want to lock Gemma in as town too but there's a few things I want to take a look at re; her before I do.
(Biggest thing I want to look at is her focus on Rhand > KJ since I think the latter has a much higher chance of being scum than the former here and some of her reasoning behind her Rhand!Scum read I'm squinting at and going "I don't think she actually believes that reasoning/logic as town and it makes sense as angle for her to push as scum" but her posting outside of him, particularly the response to Vaimes about the LW town read felt very much like her as town. Anyway, something for me to sort out soon.
Kind of think Sheeps opening of 'wanting to roll scum here' in Post 6 is something that he's more likely to avoid stating out the gate as scum? Find the thoughts and stances in Post 40 super genuine and something that I can very much understand from someone that has limited experience with both players / doesn't know that they're friends outside of the game. Sheeps reaction towards Gemmas reads / worry she's pocketing him in 55 reads very very town; don't see him as scum getting town read from someone and his response being "I disagree with the reasoning on me" -> "It's an attempt to pocket me" -> "Actually the post might be a *****post/trollpost", that's not a progression I think comes from scum ever.
Yeah, no and this whole "It'll be fun to call Regfan scum every post because lol" was actually kind of frustrating when reading through since I had to stop and keep thinking "Is this just a Scum!Gemma tactic to try and put me on the backfoot at gamestart to de-credit and tilt me" and then having to stop myself and go "Eh, I don't think she'd go there and I can follow her thoughts on other players, so no".
I'll be dumping my reads/thoughts when I get time / a chance, I'll go into my KJ one now, but this whole "You post reads first thing / I'll wait on you" is stupid as ****.
Don't really like KJ's, Post 166, think a lot of the questions feel throw-away type ones and and think the stance/commenting re; Gemma there reads fake in the "Oh yeah, not going to town read you on that for sure" tagged with "I want to town read her for why I said I wasn't, gah", feels moreso to be town read rather than a genuine thought, find the comment on Vaimes there similar.
I'm glad you started posting. It was getting tiring waiting for you to stop crying in scum chat and come out to play.
Or maybe I was going to try and ******* play this game like a two week day phase where I can actually afford to wait until I'm at a laptop and devoting proper time to the game. And hey, I'm here now, and you're supposedly around. So if you're town actually talk to me about some of my reads/things I've posted. Talk to me about Shadow, actually work with me here.
I'm sorry it was frustrating. It was all done in good humor. I thought you might find it amusing. Oops.
shadow and I have always been wolves together (including this game), but I'm familiar with his tone, I guess?
Re: Killjoy, I think mentioning Rhand and shadow twice in that post is mafia indicative. I think "I do agree here" is mafia indicative. I think the alternation of active->passive->active voice is mafia indicative. I think "a bit" is mafia indicative. It really should be predicative.
I'm glad you started posting. It was getting tiring waiting for you to stop crying in scum chat and come out to play.
Or maybe I was going to try and ******* play this game like a two week day phase where I can actually afford to wait until I'm at a laptop and devoting proper time to the game. And hey, I'm here now, and you're supposedly around. So if you're town actually talk to me about some of my reads/things I've posted. Talk to me about Shadow, actually work with me here.
Don't really like KJ's, Post 166, think a lot of the questions feel throw-away type ones and and think the stance/commenting re; Gemma there reads fake in the "Oh yeah, not going to town read you on that for sure" tagged with "I want to town read her for why I said I wasn't, gah", feels moreso to be town read rather than a genuine thought, find the comment on Vaimes there similar.
I agree with this.
I'll go through shadow's ISO now, okay?
Would you mind going over your read on me while I do that?
I'm glad you started posting. It was getting tiring waiting for you to stop crying in scum chat and come out to play.
Or maybe I was going to try and ******* play this game like a two week day phase where I can actually afford to wait until I'm at a laptop and devoting proper time to the game. And hey, I'm here now, and you're supposedly around. So if you're town actually talk to me about some of my reads/things I've posted. Talk to me about Shadow, actually work with me here.
Ah, **** dude. That was a joke.
I was trying to make a reference to our first game we played together where you were mafia and you had a delayed entry after subbing in, I thought you would get the reference and appreciate it. I didn't mean to tilt you. I'm sorry.
shadow and I have always been wolves together (including this game), but I'm familiar with his tone, I guess?
Was under the impression you've spec'ed some of his games and had a decent feel on how to read him which is why I wanted you to talk about hi a bit since I'm not sure how serious your town read on him is, and would have liked you to elaborate on that before I touched on my read on him ideally.
I've actually got a few concerns with some of his play so far. I think most of his early game posting and interacting with you is fairly NAI in that it's just playful interactions (If you two were different players I'd have locked you in as hard W/W based on them, but I'm a little more cautious re; you given I know you know how much I base the game and world building around trusting hard not W/W worlds and I think if you two were scum, trying to get me to read you not W/W early on would 100% be a focus) but his "You're being too hedgy" thing to Sheep inside ~Post 51 felt very fake and not like real thoughts? Like, he's asked Sheep for thoughts on page 1 of the game when there's nearly no content and posts, almost any thoughts given at that stage are going to be weak and 'hedgy' sounding, so to bring that afterwards feels like a push for the sake of a push?
Yeah I didn't get the reference at all, and sorry for getting frustrated; just not the most fun thing to read when trying to catch up on the game while dealing with life things at the same time. It's fine though, two week day phases and I'll make sure to make myself step back and take a breather and not get too worked up whenever possible and just focus on trying to put down reads/thoughts I actually think are important.
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(He says realizing he should probably do some work now.)
I was playing around with a toddler (copying him standing up and squatting) whose parents were busy and not entertaining him and then he ran into a chair and started crying.
Do I smell contradictions?
Ill just leave these here...
LW doing a line by line refutation of Gemma's townread is villagery. Like I don't really care about arguing with townreads on you but I think as a wolf you can accomplish what feels like a similar "look at me I don't care about being townread" type thing without being as extensive that I think is likely more intuitive from that mindset.
Shadow
Gemma
Sheep
Last
Vaimes
Lissa
Regfan
Nancy Drew 39
Killjoy
Wheat_Grinder
Rhand
MIA
Roz_the_evee
Discuss.
Reading.
What?
Shadow: What do you think of Sheep's vote on you on the end of page one? You specifically didn't like... reflexively react to it, then just started calling it hedgy. So expand on that if you would please. You saw the vote and ______.
Gemma: Right. I remember you. I recall the reason I townread you was mostly tone? I think? Not gonna do that again for sure.
Rhand: Do yuo have any other reason to note as to why LW is town? Besides just mindmeld?
Shadow: What do you think of Rhand->Gemma? The way he is interacting with her, and to a lesser extent how they are interacting together?
I do agree here.
Also kinda think Vaimes is town. It's unusual to get a townread on him this early. I think it's right though?
Sheep confuses me a bit.
I want to townread Gemma for the exact reasons I said I wasn't gonna townread her this game. Gah.
KJ, what's your process for responding to people? Since I see you have Rhand down twice.
Gemma's case seems a bit biased, but then when people do stuff like trying to prove someone scum it usually turns into "these are scummy things that this person is doing" because, like... that's the intent. There's an inherent amount of bias there. I will have more to say on this later.
But, like yes those things could be things scum are doing. It's not really like... unfairly biased. It's just coming from a place where she obviously thinks Rhand is scum.
Who are you, because you ain't shadow.
what are you trying to imply here?
---
I'm no longer 100% convinced gemma is scum but I am pretty damn sure about shadow.
Shadow immediately tried to clear based on that, which was what first pinged me. From then on, he continually tried to buddy Gemma which is why I'm starting to think Gemma may not actually be scum - it feels like a pocket attempt.
I am never really one to comment on mind melds, but its nice to see someone else in this game, not swayed by Shadow or Gemma's terrible acting...
You got Gemma coming into the game with this fake excitement, super bubbly, whos flooding the thread with nonsense, and empty reads, and then she wants you to take her seriously, no its not happening
Shadow same thing, minus the over exaggerated excitement, fluffy, flooding the thread, literally, look at the lower end of page 3, at least we got that spew clear, no way Vaimes is ever Wolf/Wolf with Shadow...
Gemma says I am paranoid because she thinks I should be reading her as town for her posts, and again there is nothing wrong with some healthy paranoia, but I am actively scum reading both Shadow and Gemma, there is no paranoia, slight maybe, if you look at the posts where they talked in parenthesis, but still moot because there hasnt been a point where I town read either them, if I say you are scum, you answer should not be, you are just being paranoid, thats not how this works.
Sheep
I have you at a slight town lean, because I liked your entrance, and I also do want to see how you handle this activity on this site, because you were excellent in unforgiving mafia
Killjoy
Gemma's case seems a bit biased, but then when people do stuff like trying to prove someone scum it usually turns into "these are scummy things that this person is doing" because, like... that's the intent.
I mean of course it will sound like that to someone, especially tho who town read who you are pushing, also interested in what more you have to say on the matter.
Vaimes
Your post towards killjoy about the double question towards rhand was nitpicky, but with that even if your questions seems forced, you still feel like you are scum hunting, also dont bother with, "are you trying to pocket me" crap, cause you are the last person I would want to pocket if I was scum
Rhand
any big difference you see between me this game, and Arkham, and whats your opinion on shadow?
tbh I always found that you can actually get a read on who is scum, by how they react to town reads on them, some players just have such forced reactions to town reads on them. Also, I never try to be scummy, and I understand scum reads are bound to happen because this is mafia, but if you worry too much about your posts sounding townie, that they just end up sounding more fake as either alignment. #unfilteredlife
also where would you lean Gemma atm? and whats your take on Shadow? Sheep? Since they were have all been vocal since game start
Regfan
Would like you opinion on shadow/Gemma when you get the chance
wheat what do you find towny about excitedness
I'm waiting for Reg to scumclaim so we can quicklynch him.
Don't really have much more right now.
Think Gemma's like... excitement thing is fairly clearly personality/person related more than anything else.
I keep reading 174/5/6/7 feeling like there's something to be gotten out of it and not quite getting there.
I think of reads like those on Gemma/Shadow, like that type of fairly strong/emphatic read on that type of player/interaction at this spot in the game, as a thing that comes from villagers >>rand generally. But I looked at the context because the interaction about it bugged me a little bit as possibly being a wolf springing off a villager and "stealing" that/using it to turn into a super nice foundation for a pocket.
And I thought Wheat was the first person to bring up that read and wrote up a thing about how he was probably a villager but then I figured out I missed a post and now I'm kind of confused.
The first post here exists.
And this is exactly what I was looking for basically?
But I keep reading it over and feeling like the whole thought is just kind of paranoid.
Lastwhisper/Wheat_Grinder how familiar are you with each other?
This is another case of the type of read I was talking about.
Amount I'm finding it in this game makes me think it might just not baseline hold up super well in this setting but I like this particular instance anyway, think the... directness in that particular way is kind of hard to produce from not-a-real-read.
People should be able to reference the post numbers in this case but to link something, isn't it just [Url"=LINK]Words[/Url] minus that "?
I'm nothing like you, I refuse to accept we have anything in common.
Wouldn't mind you reading KJ's ISO (It's only 4 posts, so should be fairly quick) and letting me know what you see there.
Can you run through where you're at re; Shadow for me too, please. (Know you've followed a fair few of his games, how good are you at reading him?)
I'm glad you started posting. It was getting tiring waiting for you to stop crying in scum chat and come out to play.
Yeah, no and this whole "It'll be fun to call Regfan scum every post because lol" was actually kind of frustrating when reading through since I had to stop and keep thinking "Is this just a Scum!Gemma tactic to try and put me on the backfoot at gamestart to de-credit and tilt me" and then having to stop myself and go "Eh, I don't think she'd go there and I can follow her thoughts on other players, so no".
I'll be dumping my reads/thoughts when I get time / a chance, I'll go into my KJ one now, but this whole "You post reads first thing / I'll wait on you" is stupid as ****.
Don't really like KJ's, Post 166, think a lot of the questions feel throw-away type ones and and think the stance/commenting re; Gemma there reads fake in the "Oh yeah, not going to town read you on that for sure" tagged with "I want to town read her for why I said I wasn't, gah", feels moreso to be town read rather than a genuine thought, find the comment on Vaimes there similar.
Or maybe I was going to try and ******* play this game like a two week day phase where I can actually afford to wait until I'm at a laptop and devoting proper time to the game. And hey, I'm here now, and you're supposedly around. So if you're town actually talk to me about some of my reads/things I've posted. Talk to me about Shadow, actually work with me here.
shadow and I have always been wolves together (including this game), but I'm familiar with his tone, I guess?
Re: Killjoy, I think mentioning Rhand and shadow twice in that post is mafia indicative. I think "I do agree here" is mafia indicative. I think the alternation of active->passive->active voice is mafia indicative. I think "a bit" is mafia indicative. It really should be predicative.
Ah, **** dude. That was a joke.
I agree with this.
I'll go through shadow's ISO now, okay?
Would you mind going over your read on me while I do that?
I was trying to make a reference to our first game we played together where you were mafia and you had a delayed entry after subbing in, I thought you would get the reference and appreciate it. I didn't mean to tilt you. I'm sorry.
Was under the impression you've spec'ed some of his games and had a decent feel on how to read him which is why I wanted you to talk about hi a bit since I'm not sure how serious your town read on him is, and would have liked you to elaborate on that before I touched on my read on him ideally.
I've actually got a few concerns with some of his play so far. I think most of his early game posting and interacting with you is fairly NAI in that it's just playful interactions (If you two were different players I'd have locked you in as hard W/W based on them, but I'm a little more cautious re; you given I know you know how much I base the game and world building around trusting hard not W/W worlds and I think if you two were scum, trying to get me to read you not W/W early on would 100% be a focus) but his "You're being too hedgy" thing to Sheep inside ~Post 51 felt very fake and not like real thoughts? Like, he's asked Sheep for thoughts on page 1 of the game when there's nearly no content and posts, almost any thoughts given at that stage are going to be weak and 'hedgy' sounding, so to bring that afterwards feels like a push for the sake of a push?