With 12 teams in, I think I'm going to soft close sign ups now. We need to put together some 12 player games (which I think would be easy enough to bump up to 13 or even 14 if needed), so there will be a short delay while we do this.
In the mean time, if anyone has ideas for the rules (specifically, how/if to break ties and exactly how to codify what can be said about private chats) now would be a good time to discuss them.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
-We are now capped at 12 teams, and the games are taking shape. The games are expected to be low complexity closed setups, and we are looking to launch this on Saturday. thank you for your patience, we had a lot more signups than we were expecting!
Rules updates:
-Rules applying to what can and cannot be said in thread around things like team chats also applies to scum chat.
-For tiebreakers, teams which have been forced to make a replacement by a mod (because of inactivty or anything else) will place behind teams which did not. Teams which handle replacements entirely by themselves will not be penalised.
-If you are modkilled, your team counts as having lost that game regardless of which faction actually wins.
So can I say "ara thinks the post by empoof is bad for [reasons]"
?
Obv don't want the game to just be relay chat and I have faith it won't but it'd certainly part of the fun to offer those insights sometimes
You can say what the [reasons] are (so long as you paraphrase/use your own words), but not the "ara thinks" bit. I think that a nebulous "after discussion with my team we think that...." should be ok, but once you start naming team mates you risk people drawing cross-game conclusions.
So can I say "ara thinks the post by empoof is bad for [reasons]"
?
Obv don't want the game to just be relay chat and I have faith it won't but it'd certainly part of the fun to offer those insights sometimes
You can say what the [reasons] are (so long as you paraphrase/use your own words), but not the "ara thinks" bit. I think that a nebulous "after discussion with my team we think that...." should be ok, but once you start naming team mates you risk people drawing cross-game conclusions.
I like that, although it's usually not a rule I have seen in teammafia. It prevents one person from playing 3 slots.
I also recommend letting each team have 1 swap between games that can only be used on D1.
FYI, if this does start on Saturday, I will likely be out for most of the weekend, so my apologies to all for what will be a 1-2 day delay in my activity.
Totally support having 1 swap for each team as well, game can be totally unplayable if theres a *****ty personality dynamic going around and that killed my interest in ms's team mafia
I'm going to be V/LA until Tuesday due to busy meatworld constraints, but I'll try to pop in Sunday and/or Monday as time allows, at least to read and maybe to post here or there.
Assuming you mean start of Day, it will start when it starts (which will be once role PMs are out and everyone has confirmed). The exact timing doesn't really matter does it?
I will not be allowing switches once the games have started, but if anyone has a genuine reason why they would prefer to switch now before role PMs go out, they may do so by PMing me as soon as possible. AS this is an exhibition event, I will also be treating all games with a very low tolerance for poor sportsmanship, flaming, and toxicity. Everyone, both MTGSers and newcomers alike, will be held to a high standard of decency and the game moderating team reserve the right to immediately force replace (or even modkill) people who are insistent on creating an unpleasant playing environment.
Speaking of, the moderating team and their games are:
Game 1: Ecophagy - The Death of Stalin Mafia
Game 2: Ganderin_Dan - The Marvel Cinematic Universe Mafia (probably)
Game 3: Silvercrys - D&D Monster Manual Mafia
We are now in the process of randing games, marshalling role PMs, and getting teams into their private channels. This can be sped up by joining the MTGS discord HERE, which is where the discord channels will be located.
Sadly things are going slower than anticpated: Role PMs will be going out within the next 24 hours. Please use the intervening time to get into the private channels on the Discord and examine the player lists, and let me know if you feel strongly enough to be shuffled into a different game.
If you have not received your Role PM (or there is a problem with it), please notify myself, Ecophagy, or Ganderin_Dan via PM or Discord DM as soon as possible.
Please confirm you have received and read your role PM by replying to the PM chat that contains it if possible.
Thanks. Games will start once most of the players have /confirmed.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
For those that need reminders:
Game 1 (Ecophagy) - The Death of Stalin Mafia - Town Win
Game 2 (Ganderin Dan) - Giant Robot Battle Royale II Mafia - Mafia Win
Game 3 (Silvercrys) - Monster Manual Mafia - Town Win
This gives us final standings of:
So congratulations to Team Not Particularly (Lissa, Randwolfsubout, and Arapocalypse) for their victory! Thank you everyone else for playing, especially all those new faces from MU and further afield, we really appreciated you all joining in and helping us make this a bigger event than expected, and we hope we can see a few of you around in some other games.
Massive thanks go to Silvercrys, Ganderin Dan, and Bur who were all absolutely crucial in getting this event off the ground and moderating their socks off. Additional thanks to all our replacements (Dels, Hunger, Anaklusmos, 7Hawk77, Shattiel, Wheat_Grinder, The Worst, I think that's everyone), who helped keep things going, often jumping head first into some really tough positions.
Let's try to keep general post-game discussion in this thread, we're really keen to hear feedback to try and improve for the next event. There's some stuff we know already (Nancy should have been replaced sooner, Mafia NKs should have been mandatory, more familiarity with players and expected activity levels beforehand could have curated a better player list), but the more discussion the better. For example, we think the games were pretty balanced (equivalent to MTGS Basics), but the addition of teams pushed them towards being townsided, even though a lot of teams didn't really utilize their private channels - what could be done to combat this in small, low complexity games?
Also I will be publicizing all discord channels soon, so this is your last chance to opt out if you don't want everyone to see them.
Thanks everyone for playing, and I hope you had fun!
Thanks for running this @everyone involved! It was a really interesting uh, project I guess you'd call it.
Definitely think the chats were townsided and not all that useful for manipulative purposes. Plus I think scum players ~probably feel a little overwhelmed participating in the thread, scumchat, AND their teamchat while putting on a town facade.
I didn't really use my team chat because I didn't feel my team was useful to me for very specific things I needed, like meta on Dels or how to evaluate a Doc CC in LyLo. To each their own. Though I will say it was nice just having a place to freely talk about the game.
Of course the game that I actually plan to go down first is the game that I live to F4. GG everyone, but frustrated with my game, but I obviously could have played better.
Hilariously, I anticipated the likelihood of getting tracked N1, so I roleblocked Dels (my own partner) only to end up killing the tracker.
Having a bunch of personal stuff come up is a bummer and I think I let down my team(s) because of it.
See you all next time (well, once I get things sorted)
I really want to hear from Newcomb about his play in my game, because his attitude of "Hollier than thou" has felt incredibly unfun to play against and I kinda want to listen how things went from his perspective, because a discussion in a mafia game tends to be more abbrasive than in the post-game world.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy. Check out the Shop Thread
I definitively argue that the moderation in terms of replacements and lurking the moderation was a joke and the decisions were made that favored the scum teams.
Premise 1
The game was sold as a competitive game. Teams were not punished for lurkers and instead were rewarded for having lurkers on the scum teams. This was a failure of moderation and of advertising. The rules also indicated with a competitive mindset and yet were not enforced this way at all.
Premise 2
Allowing lurkers favors scum teams. Lurking really hurts town, this is an argument I don't feel the need to go into, but will spend a slight amount of time on. If you take the game I was in for example the town basically had to blind lynch into the lurking teams. We lost the 50/50 roll. Its bull***** that we were forced to do this. Moderation responded by telling me that they were giving us "Vig shots" if they got rid of those slots. To which I respond "**** off". Moderation should be impartial and based on player behavior not on game balance. By failing to enforce this you are rewarding *****ty player behavior for the sake of "Game balancing" while also not making the game fun for those involved.
Premise 3
The moderation lead to feelings of anger which resulted in Gemma's actions.
I know I'm the minority here, but I do not feel that Gemma should have been punished at all for her behavior. The Nancy Drew thing was 100% bull*****, and as someone who knows a large amount of what happened behind the scenes, I question the moderators entirely.
I think the moderation of this game fundamentally was flawed. I saw ample evidence of the moderation team going after behavior that I see as possibly being slightly problematic, but unwilling to take a stance on something as easy as an issue of fairness. Specifically in Nancy Drew. The moderation team straight up told me that mod kills would never happened unless they were forced to, which I argue totally skews the game in favor of a player lurking. I think that this is a toxic way to perform moderation, wastes players time and is shameful for the moderation willing to take a stance on some behavior and not others.
As a general rule to I think that its shameful that I had to point out to the moderation staff that Tomslogger was talking about laughing at a player in his team chat and basically bullying him. While the moderation focused on other players behavior significantly more.
Speaking directly to Eco, you need to shape up with your favoritism and the way you moderate players.
To specifically speak to the modkills, Regardless of what Nancy did or anything surrounding that situation, Gemma bringing it up and referencing games from another site as a way to generate a read is wildly not okay from a game integrity standpoint, and certainly warranted action. I can understand where it comes from; basically breaking the game wide open certainly had to be exciting, but it should be apparent that using that really isn’t how this game is designed to be played.
My only huge issue/concern with the game setup and moderation was the lack of replacement options in midgame. The fact that I had to be miserable and just not at all interested in continuing to play before Eco was willing to let a teammate replace me instead of an outside person was atrocious. I don't entirely place that blame on the mods, but from my perspective, it took way too long to do something that shouldn't have been an issue to begin with.
As for other moderation elements, while I agree with DV that these games did encourage lurking way more than they should have done so, and that certain players should have been replaced or modkilled way earlier, I understand the desire to maintain games even when player removal really should happen. That said, there's a time and a place for modkills and replacements and they felt woefully underused, especially in Game 1/2.
Confirming as captain for the 12th team!
Team Name: Dafties
Team Members: Manasi, Vaimes, and MarkoRaj
Maybe they'll confirm eventually, maybe not!
In the mean time, if anyone has ideas for the rules (specifically, how/if to break ties and exactly how to codify what can be said about private chats) now would be a good time to discuss them.
Who the hell would wanna play with you? LMAO
Prepare to get owned
That's not very nice.
#justgettingstarted
If you play anything like DV prob @DV <3
Pot, Kettle, Squid Ink.
ya'll bout to know the true meaning of electrification
let's light up
This almost makes me want to find a team with which to join this game.
Almost.
Sorry, Nacho
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
-We are now capped at 12 teams, and the games are taking shape. The games are expected to be low complexity closed setups, and we are looking to launch this on Saturday. thank you for your patience, we had a lot more signups than we were expecting!
Rules updates:
-Rules applying to what can and cannot be said in thread around things like team chats also applies to scum chat.
-For tiebreakers, teams which have been forced to make a replacement by a mod (because of inactivty or anything else) will place behind teams which did not. Teams which handle replacements entirely by themselves will not be penalised.
-If you are modkilled, your team counts as having lost that game regardless of which faction actually wins.
?
Obv don't want the game to just be relay chat and I have faith it won't but it'd certainly part of the fun to offer those insights sometimes
You can say what the [reasons] are (so long as you paraphrase/use your own words), but not the "ara thinks" bit. I think that a nebulous "after discussion with my team we think that...." should be ok, but once you start naming team mates you risk people drawing cross-game conclusions.
super hyped guys <3
I like that, although it's usually not a rule I have seen in teammafia. It prevents one person from playing 3 slots.
I also recommend letting each team have 1 swap between games that can only be used on D1.
This is absolutely the intention - the spirit of the system is three people, each playing their own game with assisstance.
I know this is something MS has done, but I'm not really sure what it adds other than people trying to guess who swapped out of rolling scum.
I think it's been pretty commonly used in the case of personality conflicts.
Newcomb will just have to deal with my pfw posting
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
I would advise anyone who is worried about personaility conflicts to talk to me in private and I'll see what I can do before the rand.
EDIT: We're also looking at more like tomorrow (Sunday) for launch as one of our mods is out of town. Sorry for the delay!
I've just met this person, but I like him a lot. Can we adopt him?
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
Assuming you mean start of Day, it will start when it starts (which will be once role PMs are out and everyone has confirmed). The exact timing doesn't really matter does it?
Well since I'm in BST I'll probably start at a reasonable BST time. But that's heavily dependant on how long it takes everyone to confirm.
I will not be allowing switches once the games have started, but if anyone has a genuine reason why they would prefer to switch now before role PMs go out, they may do so by PMing me as soon as possible. AS this is an exhibition event, I will also be treating all games with a very low tolerance for poor sportsmanship, flaming, and toxicity. Everyone, both MTGSers and newcomers alike, will be held to a high standard of decency and the game moderating team reserve the right to immediately force replace (or even modkill) people who are insistent on creating an unpleasant playing environment.
Speaking of, the moderating team and their games are:
Game 1: Ecophagy - The Death of Stalin Mafia
Game 2: Ganderin_Dan - The Marvel Cinematic Universe Mafia (probably)
Game 3: Silvercrys - D&D Monster Manual Mafia
We are now in the process of randing games, marshalling role PMs, and getting teams into their private channels. This can be sped up by joining the MTGS discord HERE, which is where the discord channels will be located.
My aplogies.
Who's ready to get owned?
Just curious
Let's rock the **** out
<3
If you have not received your Role PM (or there is a problem with it), please notify myself, Ecophagy, or Ganderin_Dan via PM or Discord DM as soon as possible.
Please confirm you have received and read your role PM by replying to the PM chat that contains it if possible.
Thanks. Games will start once most of the players have /confirmed.
Who wants in?
For those that need reminders:
Game 1 (Ecophagy) - The Death of Stalin Mafia - Town Win
Game 2 (Ganderin Dan) - Giant Robot Battle Royale II Mafia - Mafia Win
Game 3 (Silvercrys) - Monster Manual Mafia - Town Win
This gives us final standings of:
So congratulations to Team Not Particularly (Lissa, Randwolfsubout, and Arapocalypse) for their victory! Thank you everyone else for playing, especially all those new faces from MU and further afield, we really appreciated you all joining in and helping us make this a bigger event than expected, and we hope we can see a few of you around in some other games.
Massive thanks go to Silvercrys, Ganderin Dan, and Bur who were all absolutely crucial in getting this event off the ground and moderating their socks off. Additional thanks to all our replacements (Dels, Hunger, Anaklusmos, 7Hawk77, Shattiel, Wheat_Grinder, The Worst, I think that's everyone), who helped keep things going, often jumping head first into some really tough positions.
Let's try to keep general post-game discussion in this thread, we're really keen to hear feedback to try and improve for the next event. There's some stuff we know already (Nancy should have been replaced sooner, Mafia NKs should have been mandatory, more familiarity with players and expected activity levels beforehand could have curated a better player list), but the more discussion the better. For example, we think the games were pretty balanced (equivalent to MTGS Basics), but the addition of teams pushed them towards being townsided, even though a lot of teams didn't really utilize their private channels - what could be done to combat this in small, low complexity games?
Also I will be publicizing all discord channels soon, so this is your last chance to opt out if you don't want everyone to see them.
Thanks everyone for playing, and I hope you had fun!
Thanks for running this @everyone involved! It was a really interesting uh, project I guess you'd call it.
Definitely think the chats were townsided and not all that useful for manipulative purposes. Plus I think scum players ~probably feel a little overwhelmed participating in the thread, scumchat, AND their teamchat while putting on a town facade.
I didn't really use my team chat because I didn't feel my team was useful to me for very specific things I needed, like meta on Dels or how to evaluate a Doc CC in LyLo. To each their own. Though I will say it was nice just having a place to freely talk about the game.
Hilariously, I anticipated the likelihood of getting tracked N1, so I roleblocked Dels (my own partner) only to end up killing the tracker.
Having a bunch of personal stuff come up is a bummer and I think I let down my team(s) because of it.
See you all next time (well, once I get things sorted)
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
Premise 1
The game was sold as a competitive game. Teams were not punished for lurkers and instead were rewarded for having lurkers on the scum teams. This was a failure of moderation and of advertising. The rules also indicated with a competitive mindset and yet were not enforced this way at all.
Premise 2
Allowing lurkers favors scum teams. Lurking really hurts town, this is an argument I don't feel the need to go into, but will spend a slight amount of time on. If you take the game I was in for example the town basically had to blind lynch into the lurking teams. We lost the 50/50 roll. Its bull***** that we were forced to do this. Moderation responded by telling me that they were giving us "Vig shots" if they got rid of those slots. To which I respond "**** off". Moderation should be impartial and based on player behavior not on game balance. By failing to enforce this you are rewarding *****ty player behavior for the sake of "Game balancing" while also not making the game fun for those involved.
Premise 3
The moderation lead to feelings of anger which resulted in Gemma's actions.
I know I'm the minority here, but I do not feel that Gemma should have been punished at all for her behavior. The Nancy Drew thing was 100% bull*****, and as someone who knows a large amount of what happened behind the scenes, I question the moderators entirely.
I think the moderation of this game fundamentally was flawed. I saw ample evidence of the moderation team going after behavior that I see as possibly being slightly problematic, but unwilling to take a stance on something as easy as an issue of fairness. Specifically in Nancy Drew. The moderation team straight up told me that mod kills would never happened unless they were forced to, which I argue totally skews the game in favor of a player lurking. I think that this is a toxic way to perform moderation, wastes players time and is shameful for the moderation willing to take a stance on some behavior and not others.
As a general rule to I think that its shameful that I had to point out to the moderation staff that Tomslogger was talking about laughing at a player in his team chat and basically bullying him. While the moderation focused on other players behavior significantly more.
Speaking directly to Eco, you need to shape up with your favoritism and the way you moderate players.
As for other moderation elements, while I agree with DV that these games did encourage lurking way more than they should have done so, and that certain players should have been replaced or modkilled way earlier, I understand the desire to maintain games even when player removal really should happen. That said, there's a time and a place for modkills and replacements and they felt woefully underused, especially in Game 1/2.