I think if we run this set up again we should try the plot cards instead of the Avalon roles.
I also think the game is probably somewhat scum sided without them, but there were several points where mistakes were made on both teams, so it's hard to tell really. Killjoy not recognizing that his buddies were confirmed wolves to him because of mission 4, etc. The main town mistake, I think, was just accepting the first or second proposal instead of trying to get more voting data, but that might just be a play style difference.
Also mega props to Grape for helping almost turn this game around. You projected town and it was like a beam of light in a dark tunnel, not to mention you caught Killjoy.
He was ridiculously obvscum, I very seriously thought about opening up with a post that outed myself and included 9000 bottles of wifom. I actually wrote like 4 opening posts cause I realized I could basically solve the game and it outed me.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Osie: I want the next words out of your mouth to be telling my why I'm suddenly scum.
I don't owe you *****.
But okay.
Town!Killjoy aggressively pushes forward thoughts of who he thinks is scum and provides detailed reasons. Scum!Killjoy is lazier, putting forward less force or putting it forward with more tunnel vision. But this game can't do tunneling. So instead it becomes about agendas for scum, and world building for town.
You don't have subtlety this game. You don't have the innocent zealotry and je ne sais quoi that you have both out of game and as town. I was there, reading your chat with Eco. I've seen you talk about your uncertainty in games regularly. You're usually nervous that you're wrong, and a series of incorrect town games seemed to leave you shaken. And I maintain that you're a good player. Because when you hook onto something, you take time to let go. And that nervous uncertainty often balances out your drive to tunnel when you are tunneled on town and gets you back on track. Which works well. And I think if you embrace that style and make it your own even more so, you could go from a good player to a great player, at least in terms of your town game.
But you don't have that nervous uncertainty here. If any nervousness is there, it's in not managing to put through an agenda while maintaining cover. And that looks bad. And that's the conclusion I came to after mulling over things for half an hour in the shower and an hour and a half of perusing ISOs afterwards. That there was no way in hell that you were town. And the more I look at it, the more it looks like you were the fail vote on that mission rather than Vezok. And the more it looks like Vezok is town.
Also props for this post right here. I was really impressed by it.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Osie: I want the next words out of your mouth to be telling my why I'm suddenly scum.
I don't owe you *****.
But okay.
Town!Killjoy aggressively pushes forward thoughts of who he thinks is scum and provides detailed reasons. Scum!Killjoy is lazier, putting forward less force or putting it forward with more tunnel vision. But this game can't do tunneling. So instead it becomes about agendas for scum, and world building for town.
You don't have subtlety this game. You don't have the innocent zealotry and je ne sais quoi that you have both out of game and as town. I was there, reading your chat with Eco. I've seen you talk about your uncertainty in games regularly. You're usually nervous that you're wrong, and a series of incorrect town games seemed to leave you shaken. And I maintain that you're a good player. Because when you hook onto something, you take time to let go. And that nervous uncertainty often balances out your drive to tunnel when you are tunneled on town and gets you back on track. Which works well. And I think if you embrace that style and make it your own even more so, you could go from a good player to a great player, at least in terms of your town game.
But you don't have that nervous uncertainty here. If any nervousness is there, it's in not managing to put through an agenda while maintaining cover. And that looks bad. And that's the conclusion I came to after mulling over things for half an hour in the shower and an hour and a half of perusing ISOs afterwards. That there was no way in hell that you were town. And the more I look at it, the more it looks like you were the fail vote on that mission rather than Vezok. And the more it looks like Vezok is town.
Also props for this post right here. I was really impressed by it.
Figuring you out was probably my favorite moment this game since it was mostly just mulling over thoughts in the shower.
Ugh... I'm sorry Osie. I knew there was a decent chance that you were town... I just got blinded by your Mikey read when I should not have... Ugh to me you and wuffles were like 70/30 after that last reread. Should have trusted D4 me.
I very much regret not trusting the post Wuffles made that tied him to KJ. At the time I did not sure why I walked it back...
@Vaimes thanks! Once I had time my excitement for the game came back and it showed. I'm also lucky that my one bit of free time during this happened to coincide with KJs mission.
@Silver thanks so much for running this. I enjoyed it so much. I realize it may not have had the highest engagement level but I would play future iterations in a heartbeat.
I kept forgetting about the game hard core
The only thing more frustrating than people not letting you play the game because they've already decided your alignment off of nothing is them deciding that you went inactive because you gave up
Seriously vaimes, don't make assumptions like that. I'm being dead serious about how distasteful that comment was to me.
And now I put on my happy face because nobody noticed that I hard softed for wuffles to fail that mission, with the backup plan being nobody would ever bring their partners on a mission with them
Again, sorry about the replace, I just didn't check soon enough I guess and I was already out before I could do anything
Sorry Mikey, definitely didn’t mean to imply you replaced out because of people’s reads on you.
Though “giving up because scumread” is certainly a thing that happens, depending on the person (I find that some others delight in sowing wine if scum), so I didn’t really think anything of it. Sorry again.
It seemed like this game was pretty low on people’s lists of priorities in general, except Grape after a certain point.
I kept forgetting about the game hard core
The only thing more frustrating than people not letting you play the game because they've already decided your alignment off of nothing is them deciding that you went inactive because you gave up
Seriously vaimes, don't make assumptions like that. I'm being dead serious about how distasteful that comment was to me.
And now I put on my happy face because nobody noticed that I hard softed for wuffles to fail that mission, with the backup plan being nobody would ever bring their partners on a mission with them
Again, sorry about the replace, I just didn't check soon enough I guess and I was already out before I could do anything
except that in the instance that you were being hard scumread you basically outed your entire scumteam with that play. -_-
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I definitely noticed it and didn't know what to make of it. I spent a lot of time agonizing over Mikey's proposal and if it meant anything before deciding to ignore it as wine.
I was hoping more town would reject.
lol Mikey obvscum from the word go.
gg
I also think the game is probably somewhat scum sided without them, but there were several points where mistakes were made on both teams, so it's hard to tell really. Killjoy not recognizing that his buddies were confirmed wolves to him because of mission 4, etc. The main town mistake, I think, was just accepting the first or second proposal instead of trying to get more voting data, but that might just be a play style difference.
Major props to Grapefruit for almost turning it around single-handedly and Osie for correctly being on me for half the game.
And to killjoy for power wolfing throughout most of the game.
Mikey almost lost it for us with his mission proposal naming all three scum in one mission. I should never have voted for it.
My apologies again for my lack of time for this game.
I feel like I blew it a bit, but we won anyway.
Also props for this post right here. I was really impressed by it.
Figuring you out was probably my favorite moment this game since it was mostly just mulling over thoughts in the shower.
I very much regret not trusting the post Wuffles made that tied him to KJ. At the time I did not sure why I walked it back...
@Vaimes thanks! Once I had time my excitement for the game came back and it showed. I'm also lucky that my one bit of free time during this happened to coincide with KJs mission.
@Silver thanks so much for running this. I enjoyed it so much. I realize it may not have had the highest engagement level but I would play future iterations in a heartbeat.
The only thing more frustrating than people not letting you play the game because they've already decided your alignment off of nothing is them deciding that you went inactive because you gave up
Seriously vaimes, don't make assumptions like that. I'm being dead serious about how distasteful that comment was to me.
And now I put on my happy face because nobody noticed that I hard softed for wuffles to fail that mission, with the backup plan being nobody would ever bring their partners on a mission with them
Again, sorry about the replace, I just didn't check soon enough I guess and I was already out before I could do anything
Though “giving up because scumread” is certainly a thing that happens, depending on the person (I find that some others delight in sowing wine if scum), so I didn’t really think anything of it. Sorry again.
It seemed like this game was pretty low on people’s lists of priorities in general, except Grape after a certain point.
And this was one of four games I was playing in, which isn't going to happen again for a while.