@Osie: Yes, I see that as very alignemnt indicative. Resisitance is a game with no confirmed info. As such, it's all hunches and likelyhoods. You can kinda get close with the firist mission failing or the third mission passing with two fails previous. But there's nothing mod confirmed ever.
My point being, certainty is a luxury that is not afforded to us this game. And yet, you are. And you're trying to get yourself on every team, and are saying if that team fails, switch out people who aren't you. It's ballsy, but that's what you're doing.
If you're scum, then Vez-Osie-me will fail, then you're saying to blame it on Vezok. I think that's what happens, and I don't approve of this.
Like, ideally the best team for solving would be probably Grape-Osie-Wuffles. Grape is pretty town, I think Wuffles is town because of Mikey's proposal, and he seems like he has no idea what to do at all. If Osie is town, that passes and we have our townblock there. If it fails, we analyze reactions and such and see who the scum would have been there.
@Wuffles: Why did you vote yes on that? I thought you thought Mikey was scum?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Why? KJ has been asking not to be sent and just your reasoning for him and Vez would be great
I expect that to pass. KJ is organically posting, and Vezok proposed based on his own reasoning someone who he was scumreading.
Just looking at their most recent posts, KJ doesn't make an argument like 202 if he's scum this game.
Vezok doesn't propose the team that he did with the reasoning that he had if he's scum this game.
I'm trying to solve, and I believe this team is all town. We can go for it and potentially get the win before we get to the 4 player missions, from the same team being proposed by Killjoy.
Killjoy said I'm being ballsy. Yes, I'm being ballsy. But I'm being ballsy because I think that I am right enough about how this setup, how this game works. I think I'm right enough about reading these two people. And I'm taking this risk knowing that if it does fail, I become one of the worst-looking parts of a trichotomy. If it fails by 2 votes, then it looks even worse for me.
So who are you going to tell me is the spy on it? And more importantly which buddy of yours is on it that you're trying to reverse psychology into getting us to accept?
@Osie is your read on me still townish but not confident? Anyway I agree that KJ is town but I'm not there on Vez yet. I mean I'm getting there but he just isn't sticking in my mind at all and I can't pin down a read on him.
So who are you going to tell me is the spy on it? And more importantly which buddy of yours is on it that you're trying to reverse psychology into getting us to accept?
@Osie is your read on me still townish but not confident? Anyway I agree that KJ is town but I'm not there on Vez yet. I mean I'm getting there but he just isn't sticking in my mind at all and I can't pin down a read on him.
Yeah, you are individually townish, and I'd replace Vezok with you in the group if anything.
So who are you going to tell me is the spy on it? And more importantly which buddy of yours is on it that you're trying to reverse psychology into getting us to accept?
@Osie is your read on me still townish but not confident? Anyway I agree that KJ is town but I'm not there on Vez yet. I mean I'm getting there but he just isn't sticking in my mind at all and I can't pin down a read on him.
Yeah, you are individually townish, and I'd replace Vezok with you in the group if anything.
But (and I suppose this is selfish) I like having only one person in a group who I feel I'm not as sure about.
This one is really hard for me. I think it's going to pass but I'm thinking myself in circles... I don't really see this failing because I'm at least softly town reading everyone in this mission, but I'm also town reading wuffles in a conflicted sort of way. And that's too many town. And some scum voted against the last mission (probably two). And this doesn't even get into my complicated feelings on Vaimes (he strikes me as town minus his interaction with Mikey and the whole spy to the left signalling thing which in retrospect isn't as bad as it first looked but is still not great). Osie's turbo nomination bugs me even though he's a solid town read. If he's buddies with Mikey then running as fast as he can with a good looking mission makes sense.
In short this isn't my ideal team. I think myself, KJ, Vez probably wins the game if we get the next 2 missions but I'm not convinced this doesn't either. Just makes me wrong on someone. Just have to figure out if I actually want to sign off on this... Leaning yes but wish there was more discussion because this is a hugely important mission.
I'm accepting the mission. If it passes, it confirms osie town for me. If it doesn't then osie is spy with a very small chance of KJ.
I do not agree with KJ's idea as it would send at least one scum on the mission at least from my experience.
@grape: You're not going to solve me if you never ask me questions.
You're not at a place I really want to ask questions of any more. You took Mikey on a mission but it passed. You claimed that you were trying to hide your scum read of him and bait him into a fail which is believable. And I have you as reasonably town for that. But like behaviorally you're not as town "feely" as KJ or Wuffles. Or kind of even Osie. But you have a really good mechanical argument to be town and I just kind of have to trust you at this point. I don't even know what I could ask that would help clear you up. I did put you on a team that I thought would win the game so it's not like I have you at this null read. You're town pending negative future evidence. I'm just preemptively worrying about it.
osie's mission is exactly the same as mine, yet grape and vaimes are all for this one.
:think:
Holy ***** this is scummy. You just locked in my scumread of you. Vaimes has said nothing about this mission. Saying "Grape and Vaimes" to make it seem mechanically problematic when Grape had a shaky, tentative comment and Vaimes said nothing? Yeah, okay.
So. I just realized something. I am being a wee bit selfish. I was considering rejecting this mission because I didn't wanna be on it for my solving purposes, and that's just dumb. That's not a reason to hamper other's solving this.
That strat I was trying to employ also is much more effective I think when we don't already have a very likely scum, as is usually the case by this point in the game.
So, I'm gonna accept it... but I'm pretty sure it's gonna fail. I think Osie is scum. I think this mission will prove that.
@Vaimes: Dude. I can't townclear you if you don't post. What's going on?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
My mission is mechanically identical to osie's. Me, a top resistance, and a question mark. This is a conspiracy and bull and I'm legitimately upset about it
Not even as part of the game this feels like a double standard to me
It would be fine if you thought I was a spy and osie was resistance but that's clearly not the case. They're doing the exact same thing as me why the heck are you ok with this whatsoever
My mission is mechanically identical to osie's. Me, a top resistance, and a question mark. This is a conspiracy and bull and I'm legitimately upset about it
Not even as part of the game this feels like a double standard to me
It would be fine if you thought I was a spy and osie was resistance but that's clearly not the case. They're doing the exact same thing as me why the heck are you ok with this whatsoever
vezokpiraka, osieorb18, and Killjoy have until 11:30 PM Eastern Time on July 6th (A little over 24 hours from now) to vote on the outcome of the mission.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Grape-Osie-Wuffles-Killjoy for exact Town team if this mission fails.
though I will say things like this are nonsense and my read on osie will be downgraded accordingly
it's almost never clear who the spy is even when a mission fails, and pre-determining who the spy is should the mission fail gives the spies a free pass if that person is actually town
a post like this is looking to manipulate the towncircle rather than naturally try and find other rebels
Grape-Osie-Wuffles-Killjoy for exact Town team if this mission fails.
though I will say things like this are nonsense and my read on osie will be downgraded accordingly
it's almost never clear who the spy is even when a mission fails, and pre-determining who the spy is should the mission fail gives the spies a free pass if that person is actually town
a post like this is looking to manipulate the towncircle rather than naturally try and find other rebels
My name is Wuffles and I barn this post. Even if this mission fails there's no way we have enough information to peg Vezok as scum if the mission fails. Behaviorally Vezok is in solid town territory for me and I still don't understand how others aren't seeing it. HE'S NOT A HARD PLAYER TO READ, GUYS.
I think the rebels are Vaimes/Wuffles/vezok/Killjoy.
I'm town; I kind of like Wuffles continuously advocating for a read be believes in + he's barning an idea that prevents him from being "cleared" (at least by osie); vezok is mostly just me taking Wuffles' word for it, vezok's whole deal with pretending to scumread Mikey was kind of a mess but I think I'm okay with it; and I think Killjoy has been one of, if not the, solviest players this game. And his suspicion of osie followed by osie went and did That are +.
Only mildly paranoid the "why is no one posting sadface" posts were for show, but muh. Everything else kinda outweighs it.
In any case, I think vezok is almost always town, unless town!Wuffles is super whiffing it this game. Can't see scum!Wuffles going that hard to prop up a buddy.
Mikey is a spy, osie's post right there is not a town post, and Grape is kinda just a limp noodle + PoE.
I will accept missions with vezok/KJ/Wuffles. A failure there will help immensely towards solving, because otherwise I'm happy with those three + me being town.
But yeah, spy!osie is trying to shoehorn two spies into the towncircle for Mission 4 once this mission fails (because with ~two spies passing it, it's going to fail), which supports him being scum with Grape.
But like behaviorally you're not as town "feely" as KJ or Wuffles. Or kind of even Osie.
"But like behaviorally you're not as town "feely" as these two actual townies. Or kind of even my scumbuddy who's pretty townread."
I'm sorry, I know this is stretchy, but looking back at this post after concluding that osie/Grape are likely scumbuddies, it's just super funny to me. It's almost a TMI slip.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I probably should have waited until after the mission, in case osie is tempted to pass it to make himself look good after that awful "this is the towncircle if I fail this mission" post.
And... never mind. Looks like the entire team is on his list. Derp. Here's my thought process (I went through everyone's ISOs and pondered everything in the shower).
So scum never do 1 for 1 is one of the rules that I've seen often. And I think Vaimes slipped by doing the linked Osie-Grape argument, especially based on my individual read of Grape as town.
So I have Vaimes as scum, not that I didn't somewhat already. #49 pretty much confirms this, as Mikey and Grape specifically call attention to. So Mikey and Grape both look good.
Who is Vaimes trying to push as town? The Vezok-Wuffles pair. And Wuffles very conveniently is doing everything in his power to pocket Vezok. So there's a chain there of sorts. Wuffles doesn't look individually scummy until you realized that he's doing jack-all for the game.
I think Vezok is legitimately town, as Mikey noted, for the first mission. So that would suggest a Vaimes-Wuffles-Killjoy team. But Vaimes and Killjoy buddying up looks bad and Vaimes holding onto the Wuffles prop up of Vezok makes Wuffles look even worse.
Killjoy's turn-around feels super inorganic too. Just fits into the general picture.
Oh well, Vaimes' team has probably successfully smeared me to endgame. I guess it's another Resistance game probably gone from me not being careful about solving bravado.
So that would suggest a Vaimes-Wuffles-Killjoy team. But Vaimes and Killjoy buddying up looks bad and Vaimes holding onto the Wuffles prop up of Vezok makes Wuffles look even worse.
It sounds like even you doubt that that's the actual team. Do you?
So that would suggest a Vaimes-Wuffles-Killjoy team. But Vaimes and Killjoy buddying up looks bad and Vaimes holding onto the Wuffles prop up of Vezok makes Wuffles look even worse.
It sounds like even you doubt that that's the actual team. Do you?
You said "that suggests a Vaimes/Wuffles/Killjoy team" followed by a "but..." thought that never really gets resolved by implying that your proposed scumteam doesn't make sense.
"I think this is the team, but they look bad due to buddying and propping."
That sounds like you think this specific thing should make your proposed team less likely, or that it should give you some pause.
You three are individually blah instead of individually townie or individually scummy. And all four of the rest of the game are individually townie, even despite some scum pings from each one.
Why? KJ has been asking not to be sent and just your reasoning for him and Vez would be great
My point being, certainty is a luxury that is not afforded to us this game. And yet, you are. And you're trying to get yourself on every team, and are saying if that team fails, switch out people who aren't you. It's ballsy, but that's what you're doing.
If you're scum, then Vez-Osie-me will fail, then you're saying to blame it on Vezok. I think that's what happens, and I don't approve of this.
Like, ideally the best team for solving would be probably Grape-Osie-Wuffles. Grape is pretty town, I think Wuffles is town because of Mikey's proposal, and he seems like he has no idea what to do at all. If Osie is town, that passes and we have our townblock there. If it fails, we analyze reactions and such and see who the scum would have been there.
@Wuffles: Why did you vote yes on that? I thought you thought Mikey was scum?
I need to remember that identifying scum is secondary to passing objectives in this game. X.x
I expect that to pass. KJ is organically posting, and Vezok proposed based on his own reasoning someone who he was scumreading.
Just looking at their most recent posts, KJ doesn't make an argument like 202 if he's scum this game.
Vezok doesn't propose the team that he did with the reasoning that he had if he's scum this game.
I'm trying to solve, and I believe this team is all town. We can go for it and potentially get the win before we get to the 4 player missions, from the same team being proposed by Killjoy.
Killjoy said I'm being ballsy. Yes, I'm being ballsy. But I'm being ballsy because I think that I am right enough about how this setup, how this game works. I think I'm right enough about reading these two people. And I'm taking this risk knowing that if it does fail, I become one of the worst-looking parts of a trichotomy. If it fails by 2 votes, then it looks even worse for me.
But that's a risk that I'm willing to take.
And this comes as a surprise to nobody.
So who are you going to tell me is the spy on it? And more importantly which buddy of yours is on it that you're trying to reverse psychology into getting us to accept?
@Osie is your read on me still townish but not confident? Anyway I agree that KJ is town but I'm not there on Vez yet. I mean I'm getting there but he just isn't sticking in my mind at all and I can't pin down a read on him.
Yeah, you are individually townish, and I'd replace Vezok with you in the group if anything.
But (and I suppose this is selfish) I like having only one person in a group who I feel I'm not as sure about.
In short this isn't my ideal team. I think myself, KJ, Vez probably wins the game if we get the next 2 missions but I'm not convinced this doesn't either. Just makes me wrong on someone. Just have to figure out if I actually want to sign off on this... Leaning yes but wish there was more discussion because this is a hugely important mission.
I do not agree with KJ's idea as it would send at least one scum on the mission at least from my experience.
@grape: You're not going to solve me if you never ask me questions.
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Check out the Shop Thread
You're not at a place I really want to ask questions of any more. You took Mikey on a mission but it passed. You claimed that you were trying to hide your scum read of him and bait him into a fail which is believable. And I have you as reasonably town for that. But like behaviorally you're not as town "feely" as KJ or Wuffles. Or kind of even Osie. But you have a really good mechanical argument to be town and I just kind of have to trust you at this point. I don't even know what I could ask that would help clear you up. I did put you on a team that I thought would win the game so it's not like I have you at this null read. You're town pending negative future evidence. I'm just preemptively worrying about it.
:think:
Holy ***** this is scummy. You just locked in my scumread of you. Vaimes has said nothing about this mission. Saying "Grape and Vaimes" to make it seem mechanically problematic when Grape had a shaky, tentative comment and Vaimes said nothing? Yeah, okay.
That was a really bad slip, and I don’t want to discount the possibility that it was strategic.
That strat I was trying to employ also is much more effective I think when we don't already have a very likely scum, as is usually the case by this point in the game.
So, I'm gonna accept it... but I'm pretty sure it's gonna fail. I think Osie is scum. I think this mission will prove that.
@Vaimes: Dude. I can't townclear you if you don't post. What's going on?
Especially 4v3.
I’ll come back after work and thought dump or something.
osie read is spicy.
Not even as part of the game this feels like a double standard to me
It would be fine if you thought I was a spy and osie was resistance but that's clearly not the case. They're doing the exact same thing as me why the heck are you ok with this whatsoever
Except that is what I think.
I'm happy that his mission plan failed.
Grape-Osie-Wuffles-Killjoy for exact Town team if this mission fails.
Proposal 2.2 has been accepted.
Accept (6): vezokpiraka, osieorb18, Killjoy, Grapefruit21, Vaimes, Wuffles_II
Reject (1): Emcee_Mikey
It is now Mission Phase 2.2.
vezokpiraka, osieorb18, and Killjoy have until 11:30 PM Eastern Time on July 6th (A little over 24 hours from now) to vote on the outcome of the mission.
You may continue posting.
(sorry I'm tired and will talk about osie tomorrow)
it's almost never clear who the spy is even when a mission fails, and pre-determining who the spy is should the mission fail gives the spies a free pass if that person is actually town
a post like this is looking to manipulate the towncircle rather than naturally try and find other rebels
I'm town; I kind of like Wuffles continuously advocating for a read be believes in + he's barning an idea that prevents him from being "cleared" (at least by osie); vezok is mostly just me taking Wuffles' word for it, vezok's whole deal with pretending to scumread Mikey was kind of a mess but I think I'm okay with it; and I think Killjoy has been one of, if not the, solviest players this game. And his suspicion of osie followed by osie went and did That are +.
Only mildly paranoid the "why is no one posting sadface" posts were for show, but muh. Everything else kinda outweighs it.
In any case, I think vezok is almost always town, unless town!Wuffles is super whiffing it this game. Can't see scum!Wuffles going that hard to prop up a buddy.
Mikey is a spy, osie's post right there is not a town post, and Grape is kinda just a limp noodle + PoE.
I will accept missions with vezok/KJ/Wuffles. A failure there will help immensely towards solving, because otherwise I'm happy with those three + me being town.
I wouldn't really know who to swap tbh.
boop
I'm sorry, I know this is stretchy, but looking back at this post after concluding that osie/Grape are likely scumbuddies, it's just super funny to me. It's almost a TMI slip.
okay someone else's turn to post now
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Check out the Shop Thread
I will wait till after the mission ends before making further analyses.
Vaimes scum, Grape town.
Now what?
But a pass is a pass, so.
So scum never do 1 for 1 is one of the rules that I've seen often. And I think Vaimes slipped by doing the linked Osie-Grape argument, especially based on my individual read of Grape as town.
So I have Vaimes as scum, not that I didn't somewhat already. #49 pretty much confirms this, as Mikey and Grape specifically call attention to. So Mikey and Grape both look good.
Who is Vaimes trying to push as town? The Vezok-Wuffles pair. And Wuffles very conveniently is doing everything in his power to pocket Vezok. So there's a chain there of sorts. Wuffles doesn't look individually scummy until you realized that he's doing jack-all for the game.
I think Vezok is legitimately town, as Mikey noted, for the first mission. So that would suggest a Vaimes-Wuffles-Killjoy team. But Vaimes and Killjoy buddying up looks bad and Vaimes holding onto the Wuffles prop up of Vezok makes Wuffles look even worse.
Killjoy's turn-around feels super inorganic too. Just fits into the general picture.
Oh well, Vaimes' team has probably successfully smeared me to endgame. I guess it's another Resistance game probably gone from me not being careful about solving bravado.
How does it sound like that? And not so much.
That sounds like you think this specific thing should make your proposed team less likely, or that it should give you some pause.
You three are individually blah instead of individually townie or individually scummy. And all four of the rest of the game are individually townie, even despite some scum pings from each one.