KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Sorry I'm here I forgot about the game again
Looks like I didn't miss much but unfortunately I need to duck out again as my lunch break is almost over
I honestly hate how vaimes is proposing a narrative for me. Out shows that not only are they completely unaware of basically anything they also know nothing about me as a person and they're trying to push this "defeated scum" narrative on me which is hecka suss
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
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If I was scum, the scum benefits from defending me. As town, nobody leaps to my defense after making a mistake with the mission team and being overly aggressive with my push afterwards. It's straightforward. The town members see that as a scummy action, and the scum members are more than happy to push the idea of me as scum. It rules out Mission 5 being passable if any one town is discredited. And if Killjoy is on Mission 3, Mission 3 doesn't pass, and we've lost.
First off we can win if mission 3 fails, it's just exponentially harder. Second in my current worldview Vaimes knew a fail was coming and expected the mission to pass so he was preemptively bussing you. He approved the mission and didn't express much suspicion of you before the mission was accepted minus 220. But as soon as it passed he started pushing worlds where Osie was scum. 234 and only echo's his previous couple posts which decide Osie is scum for the level of yes votes and his 231 which is deciding who the fail vote would be on this mission before it happens. Which is exactly what Vaimes does by scum reading Osie here and immediately jumping on and pushing him and lumping me in as Osie's buddy (again based on Osie deciding who failed a mission before it failed).
I'm almost in favor of this mission, but a mission with vaimes on it won't pass. Try grape instead.
Okay, mikey, I'll bite. Who is your current scumteam then, if Vaimes/vezok ship exists?
Quote from Osie »
I'm voting to reject Killjoy's proposal, or any other teams with Vaimes/Killjoy/Wuffles on them.
Okay osie I'll bite. Actually, no I won't. I could understand Vaimes,but like...no. No, Killjoy is town. Grape has been non existent. And Mikey is STILL posting like he knows EXACTLY who the scum team is, like, seriously. His posts are certain to an extent I am not willing to consider town.
If a me/KJ/Vaimes world is seriously the best you have, then...well, ****. I can't imagine any world without mikey as obvscum in it. I think the scum are you/Mikey/ and Grape, with a small chance of Vaimes. If KJ is scum then we've lost AFAIC and Vezok is so plainly town Vez that I don't even.
I was also going to copy my post from other game into here apologising for my future non-medicated fluff posts. But then I realized that every player here except mikey is also in PlayStation so meh
If a me/KJ/Vaimes world is seriously the best you have, then...well, ****. I can't imagine any world without mikey as obvscum in it. I think the scum are you/Mikey/ and Grape, with a small chance of Vaimes. If KJ is scum then we've lost AFAIC and Vezok is so plainly town Vez that I don't even.
I would consider swapping you and one of the others, but Grape is obvtown, Vez seems likely town regardless of your alignment or Mikey's.
KJ and Vaimes are blatant scum.
It's funny how you three are piling up on shading me though.
Full thread scumreading someone as has been the case for both me and Mikey is a towntell. And KJ/Vaimes S/S is so blatant it hurts.
@Wuffles I've posted 15 more times than you. I feel like the only reason I'm being called nonexistent/a wet noodle is because I'm owning up to not having been around. And like that's the entirety of your scum read on me. And while activity is a good reason to scum read me it's the entirety of your read. Like take a look at what I have said when I've been here.
@Osie Talk to me about the connection between Vaimes and KJ. If you have already point me to it. I don't see anything tying those two together.
Apart from Mikey saying that Osie's proposal was the same as his and urging us not to accept it he's done not much in the last week or so. Osie why does the most recent mission failing convince you that he's town. You already believed Vaimes is scum, and you know there is one scum on the mission. Why does you believing that KJ/Vaimes are s/s rule out mikey as a teammate?
Yeah grape that's totally true, you have posted more. It feels like you've done a lot less than anyone else I can think of (aside from me) in thread and that's likely to make you scum by POE. There is a non zero chance that it's Vaimes - but failing putting me on the mission, I still trust KJ's judgment here enough to vote yes. It's playing the odds, but I think it's the right bet.
I don't trust putting Vaimes on this mission at all. I think there is little reason to think he's town and KJ choosing to put him on the mission over his long standing town reads of you and Vez with himself makes me doubt him. Like in the build up to this mission his town was himself, you, Vez, and one of Vaimes/me which he was less confident on. And then he without any explanation nominates Vaimes over you, when in 284 he was saying you needed to go on a mission.
Anyway I'm not trying to say I'm one of the most impactful players this game but I'm right in the middle on post count and I have at least two people scum reading me for activity reasons and it feels wrong to me.
Osie's flip on me is likely in response to me scum reading them
Not 100% but that's what I usually see
I know they said I was universally scum read and thus I'm town but
In what world is that sound logic
Osie is definitely a spy, it's that simple. With vaimes, I bet.
Wuffles is a curious case because he's making posts but they leave no impact on me and I'm not impressed to answer them. Killjoy and vezok are almost definitely resistance, I still want killjoy to be resistance, it's mostly poe from there. With only 7 player resistance we should be able to solve the game after this mission but not if we accept killjoy and his crappy mission submissions.
I think even if mission 3 fails we'll be in a good spot solving wide, albeit difficult to win from there. The easiest way to win naturally is to force the spies to double fall mission 4.
Osie's flip on me is likely in response to me scum reading them
Not 100% but that's what I usually see
I know they said I was universally scum read and thus I'm town but
In what world is that sound logic
Osie is definitely a spy, it's that simple. With vaimes, I bet.
Wuffles is a curious case because he's making posts but they leave no impact on me and I'm not impressed to answer them. Killjoy and vezok are almost definitely resistance, I still want killjoy to be resistance, it's mostly poe from there. With only 7 player resistance we should be able to solve the game after this mission but not if we accept killjoy and his crappy mission submissions.
I think even if mission 3 fails we'll be in a good spot solving wide, albeit difficult to win from there. The easiest way to win naturally is to force the spies to double fall mission 4.
Mikey I can tell you have Osie and Vaimes as spiesscum but who is the third spy? The sentence in bold seems like quite the contradiction. Who would you select for this mission?
Apart from Mikey saying that Osie's proposal was the same as his and urging us not to accept it he's done not much in the last week or so. Osie why does the most recent mission failing convince you that he's town. You already believed Vaimes is scum, and you know there is one scum on the mission. Why does you believing that KJ/Vaimes are s/s rule out mikey as a teammate?
I mean it doesn't but I think he's actually relatively townie individually.
@Osie Talk to me about the connection between Vaimes and KJ. If you have already point me to it. I don't see anything tying those two together.
First individually...
Killjoy:
So going through his ISO, his first 11 posts are just useless. Some very meaningless interaction with only Vaimes, myself, and Grapefruit. Lots of setup gaming, but overall just nothing. But it's early. So what's next? And while he's specifically interacting with me and Grape on a pseudo-game-focused level, why is he just addressing random posts to Vaimes?
#35 feels like a slip. That might be a bit of a stretch, but yeah. He's also still not hunting at all or doing anything which looks particularly townie.
#42 is bizarre. Killjoy's asking Mikey to explain Killjoy's read on Grape. Eww.
In #43 he's still just chatting with Vaimes without a point. And he has this awkward "You're scummy but lol, that's just you" not-really-a-read there.
In #68, he has more setup talk, and in responding to Vaimes' slip in 49, just pretends that everything is fine. And then just reiterates his awful question to Mikey.
#71 - Why ask the question in the first place?! And then he repeats his other awkward setup question. This is so stilted. Killjoy's never this stilted as town.
#75 - I wonder how many times Killjoy asks people useless questions and then either repeats the question, has someone else answer it, or calls people out for not answering his questions this game…
Then we have a bunch of misc posts about timestamps. NAI at best.
And he's still going on about the third mission plan. Okay, so you'd think he'll do it, then, right? Nope.
#100 - "Explain" and "How does that make you feel" … I have more productive conversation with a Markov generator.
#102 - Reiterating his question.
#104 - This post might as well just be a blank "I'm town, guys" with no context.
And this continues… I'm so bored reading this ISO that I'm almost ready to just put everything down and go do something else. He's not trying to solve the game at all. His interactions are very selective, and his questions are light at best and actively wastes of time at worst. And then he just faffs about until he decides to ask another useless question.
The selective interactions are where the posts to Vaimes look off, specifically like it's trying to show interaction without hinting anything too obvious to town.
And the posts to Grape, Mikey, myself, and somewhat Vezok look like setup for fake scumreads.
%%%%%%%
Vaimes actively looks like he's openly coordinating spy strategy in the first 60 posts.
And then, sure enough, he's doing the same pushes on Mikey and Grape, and setting me up for a later scumread by making sure that his townlean is fencesitty enough. Vaimes is pushing the narrative of the whole game.
What happened to those other questions for Wuffles?
Also, unlike Killjoy, Vaimes is only responding to Killjoy when he has to do so.
Goes against the plan of forming a towncore and adding/subtracting. Because that's TOWN COORDINATION, and that would be BAD for SCUM VAIMES.
No reads for a while, just shade on Vezok, Grape, Mikey, and myself. Conveniently 4 people… Hmm.
"I want credit for scumreading Mikey!" - This looks like self-preservation and tooting his own horn.
"Trying to force convenient townclears" - THIS POST IS FAKE NEWS. Scum will always fail quests 2 and 3 if able.
I propose a Townbloc when I still think Killjoy is town, having not read closely enough, and Vaimes leaps on that as a slip, then proposes Vaimes/Wuffles/Vezok/Killjoy based on his own shading from earlier. At first I figured that the scumteam would be split between that group and something else, but no, I'm pretty sure that Vaimes realized he was in a good enough position to put the entire scumteam into his townbloc. And it doesn't even matter even if two of them are removed from things, since any one of them fails mission 5 and mission 3 if they're on it. But the likelihood is that it wouldn't matter because Vaimes knows that Killjoy is being townread, as he himself helped prop Killjoy up.
And then it's just a non-stop smeargame. It's gross, shameless open wolfing. And the sad thing is that I think he and Killjoy have already won with it.
%%%%%%%%
I might just be a ***** player, but this feels so damn obvious.
Osie I know you are trying hard not to lose, but you have a fatal flaw in your analysis.
From your perspective, if you were a rebel, KJ is confirmed spy. That's not what your post implies. It feels like you are trting to convince yourself kj is scum.
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Osie I know you are trying hard not to lose, but you have a fatal flaw in your analysis.
From your perspective, if you were a rebel, KJ is confirmed spy. That's not what your post implies. It feels like you are trting to convince yourself kj is scum.
Well he would see you or KJ as a spy. But there is someone who
made that mindset slip you're describing this page.
Osie I know you are trying hard not to lose, but you have a fatal flaw in your analysis.
From your perspective, if you were a rebel, KJ is confirmed spy. That's not what your post implies. It feels like you are trting to convince yourself kj is scum.
That assumes that you're a rebel, which I don't know.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I know you think he's town, but you have said literally nothing about him.
Well I can compare him to his play in Token mafia where he was scum. He did absolutely nothing all game and didn't get lynched because we were focusing on other people.
He actually tried to talk and had ideas this game.
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The reason I chose Vaimes over wuffles here is because we need to solve for him. Wuffles I am slightly more confident about.
If I'm right about Vaimes here then we just win right now because we do same team plus 1 which only fails if we have two scum on it.
If I'm wrong about Vaimes, then we have two more missions to figure out the game since Mission 4 is unlikely to fail.
@Grape: Why are you suddenly so resistant to my "win at Mission 5" strategy now? I don't recall you raising objections when I first suggested it?
That was before I became a widespread scum read. Plus if you're right about wuffles who you are more confident in we win the game now too. I see no reason to nominate Vaimes here from your POV.
But as soon as it passed he started pushing worlds where Osie was scum.
At least two spies approved the mission, which is revealed before the actual pass/fail mechanic. Did you forget that part?
I didn't but a passed mission with 3 no votes ends the game. There is a non zero chance a spy will vote yes to a mission that will pass. And given they can't coordinate it's also non zero multiple would counting on allies to vote no.
I didn't but a passed mission with 3 no votes ends the game. There is a non zero chance a spy will vote yes to a mission that will pass. And given they can't coordinate it's also non zero multiple would counting on allies to vote no.
Well technically not because a spy could have voted yes and the 4th town could have voted no, but it effectively ends the game.
You know you're on mission 3, not mission 4, right? You only get to propose 3 people.
Looks like I didn't miss much but unfortunately I need to duck out again as my lunch break is almost over
I honestly hate how vaimes is proposing a narrative for me. Out shows that not only are they completely unaware of basically anything they also know nothing about me as a person and they're trying to push this "defeated scum" narrative on me which is hecka suss
Bai
Hmm.
BOLDBOLDBOLDBOLDBOLD
KJ Vezok.... Vaimes
BOLDBOLDBOLDBOLDBOLD
I'm confident enough about Vezok being town here. And Vaimes is right, Wuffles is probably town. So if this passes, we have our townblock I think?
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I mean, you would think that if you thought that the reject was a fail instead.
First off we can win if mission 3 fails, it's just exponentially harder. Second in my current worldview Vaimes knew a fail was coming and expected the mission to pass so he was preemptively bussing you. He approved the mission and didn't express much suspicion of you before the mission was accepted minus 220. But as soon as it passed he started pushing worlds where Osie was scum. 234 and only echo's his previous couple posts which decide Osie is scum for the level of yes votes and his 231 which is deciding who the fail vote would be on this mission before it happens. Which is exactly what Vaimes does by scum reading Osie here and immediately jumping on and pushing him and lumping me in as Osie's buddy (again based on Osie deciding who failed a mission before it failed).
Okay osie I'll bite. Actually, no I won't. I could understand Vaimes,but like...no. No, Killjoy is town. Grape has been non existent. And Mikey is STILL posting like he knows EXACTLY who the scum team is, like, seriously. His posts are certain to an extent I am not willing to consider town.
If a me/KJ/Vaimes world is seriously the best you have, then...well, ****. I can't imagine any world without mikey as obvscum in it. I think the scum are you/Mikey/ and Grape, with a small chance of Vaimes. If KJ is scum then we've lost AFAIC and Vezok is so plainly town Vez that I don't even.
I would consider swapping you and one of the others, but Grape is obvtown, Vez seems likely town regardless of your alignment or Mikey's.
KJ and Vaimes are blatant scum.
It's funny how you three are piling up on shading me though.
Full thread scumreading someone as has been the case for both me and Mikey is a towntell. And KJ/Vaimes S/S is so blatant it hurts.
@Osie Talk to me about the connection between Vaimes and KJ. If you have already point me to it. I don't see anything tying those two together.
Anyway I'm not trying to say I'm one of the most impactful players this game but I'm right in the middle on post count and I have at least two people scum reading me for activity reasons and it feels wrong to me.
Not 100% but that's what I usually see
I know they said I was universally scum read and thus I'm town but
In what world is that sound logic
Osie is definitely a spy, it's that simple. With vaimes, I bet.
Wuffles is a curious case because he's making posts but they leave no impact on me and I'm not impressed to answer them. Killjoy and vezok are almost definitely resistance, I still want killjoy to be resistance, it's mostly poe from there. With only 7 player resistance we should be able to solve the game after this mission but not if we accept killjoy and his crappy mission submissions.
I think even if mission 3 fails we'll be in a good spot solving wide, albeit difficult to win from there. The easiest way to win naturally is to force the spies to double fall mission 4.
Mikey I can tell you have Osie and Vaimes as
spiesscum but who is the third spy? The sentence in bold seems like quite the contradiction. Who would you select for this mission?So basically you're unsure if me or Wuffles is the 4th townie right?
I mean it doesn't but I think he's actually relatively townie individually.
First individually...
Killjoy:
So going through his ISO, his first 11 posts are just useless. Some very meaningless interaction with only Vaimes, myself, and Grapefruit. Lots of setup gaming, but overall just nothing. But it's early. So what's next? And while he's specifically interacting with me and Grape on a pseudo-game-focused level, why is he just addressing random posts to Vaimes?
#35 feels like a slip. That might be a bit of a stretch, but yeah. He's also still not hunting at all or doing anything which looks particularly townie.
#42 is bizarre. Killjoy's asking Mikey to explain Killjoy's read on Grape. Eww.
In #43 he's still just chatting with Vaimes without a point. And he has this awkward "You're scummy but lol, that's just you" not-really-a-read there.
In #68, he has more setup talk, and in responding to Vaimes' slip in 49, just pretends that everything is fine. And then just reiterates his awful question to Mikey.
#71 - Why ask the question in the first place?! And then he repeats his other awkward setup question. This is so stilted. Killjoy's never this stilted as town.
#74 - Waffle waffle waffle fence sitting garbage. No subtlety whatsoever here.
#75 - I wonder how many times Killjoy asks people useless questions and then either repeats the question, has someone else answer it, or calls people out for not answering his questions this game…
Then we have a bunch of misc posts about timestamps. NAI at best.
And he's still going on about the third mission plan. Okay, so you'd think he'll do it, then, right? Nope.
#100 - "Explain" and "How does that make you feel" … I have more productive conversation with a Markov generator.
#102 - Reiterating his question.
#104 - This post might as well just be a blank "I'm town, guys" with no context.
And this continues… I'm so bored reading this ISO that I'm almost ready to just put everything down and go do something else. He's not trying to solve the game at all. His interactions are very selective, and his questions are light at best and actively wastes of time at worst. And then he just faffs about until he decides to ask another useless question.
The selective interactions are where the posts to Vaimes look off, specifically like it's trying to show interaction without hinting anything too obvious to town.
And the posts to Grape, Mikey, myself, and somewhat Vezok look like setup for fake scumreads.
%%%%%%%
Vaimes actively looks like he's openly coordinating spy strategy in the first 60 posts.
And then, sure enough, he's doing the same pushes on Mikey and Grape, and setting me up for a later scumread by making sure that his townlean is fencesitty enough. Vaimes is pushing the narrative of the whole game.
What happened to those other questions for Wuffles?
Also, unlike Killjoy, Vaimes is only responding to Killjoy when he has to do so.
Goes against the plan of forming a towncore and adding/subtracting. Because that's TOWN COORDINATION, and that would be BAD for SCUM VAIMES.
No reads for a while, just shade on Vezok, Grape, Mikey, and myself. Conveniently 4 people… Hmm.
"I want credit for scumreading Mikey!" - This looks like self-preservation and tooting his own horn.
"Trying to force convenient townclears" - THIS POST IS FAKE NEWS. Scum will always fail quests 2 and 3 if able.
I propose a Townbloc when I still think Killjoy is town, having not read closely enough, and Vaimes leaps on that as a slip, then proposes Vaimes/Wuffles/Vezok/Killjoy based on his own shading from earlier. At first I figured that the scumteam would be split between that group and something else, but no, I'm pretty sure that Vaimes realized he was in a good enough position to put the entire scumteam into his townbloc. And it doesn't even matter even if two of them are removed from things, since any one of them fails mission 5 and mission 3 if they're on it. But the likelihood is that it wouldn't matter because Vaimes knows that Killjoy is being townread, as he himself helped prop Killjoy up.
And then it's just a non-stop smeargame. It's gross, shameless open wolfing. And the sad thing is that I think he and Killjoy have already won with it.
%%%%%%%%
I might just be a ***** player, but this feels so damn obvious.
From your perspective, if you were a rebel, KJ is confirmed spy. That's not what your post implies. It feels like you are trting to convince yourself kj is scum.
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Well he would see you or KJ as a spy. But there is someone who
made that mindset slip you're describing this page.
That assumes that you're a rebel, which I don't know.
If I'm right about Vaimes here then we just win right now because we do same team plus 1 which only fails if we have two scum on it.
If I'm wrong about Vaimes, then we have two more missions to figure out the game since Mission 4 is unlikely to fail.
@Grape: Why are you suddenly so resistant to my "win at Mission 5" strategy now? I don't recall you raising objections when I first suggested it?
I know you think he's town, but you have said literally nothing about him.
Well I can compare him to his play in Token mafia where he was scum. He did absolutely nothing all game and didn't get lynched because we were focusing on other people.
He actually tried to talk and had ideas this game.
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That was before I became a widespread scum read. Plus if you're right about wuffles who you are more confident in we win the game now too. I see no reason to nominate Vaimes here from your POV.
Killjoy, vezokpiraka, Vaimes
24 hours from now is ~1700 Eastern Time on July 12. I don't have the ability to link a count down timer at this time.
As always, you may continue posting.
I think I need to hear more from vaimes first
Please answer my questions from above.
Osie is almost as likely to be a spy
The group of four is a whim and to be fair it's essentially 50/50
What changed your mind from being strongly against this mission yesterday to being strongly for it today?
So you have no strong opinions on me/KJ/Vaimes/Wuffles?
What do you want, exactly?
Waiting for more from KJ before answering.
I didn't but a passed mission with 3 no votes ends the game. There is a non zero chance a spy will vote yes to a mission that will pass. And given they can't coordinate it's also non zero multiple would counting on allies to vote no.
Well technically not because a spy could have voted yes and the 4th town could have voted no, but it effectively ends the game.
I'll pretend you're 100% confirmed town for your next 2-3 posts and really consider what you have to say about the gamestate.