if you keep expecting, legit answers from Tom, you will be solely disappointed...
Osie has a good strat for tom, "Scum read him until proven otherwise."
also I agree on GJ...
Vez, GJ, and Vaimes, seem like good focuses for now
Lastwhisper is a sheep. He is either town, or exactly wolves with DV.
Anak - Seems very comfortable coming back. I like his confidence and hope it lasts.
D_V - Mindmelding here on Vaimes. While he's not taking things super seriously, he's not over-relaxed. Slight town feels for now.
Null:
Grapefruit - Need to see more, especially explanation of his vote choice.
Kamikaze - Easy choice of vote, need to see more.
Lastwhisper - Need to see more. OMGUS is NAI or slight town for him.
Vezok - Again, need to see more. Kvetching about something offtopic is NAI. Choice of Rodemy could also go either way.
Absent:
Fuwa
Ganderin_dan
Tubba Fett
Scumlean:
GJ - I need to see more here, but so far he's just cozying up to people… Ehh.
kpaca - This has every possibility of going up or down, but so far kpaca feels stilted, and I'm not getting any of that fire between the lines from him.
Tom - Assume Tom is scum until he does something to make him town.
Wuffles - The Darth Vader gimmick doesn't do much… His vote and buddying up to Vaimes both look strange.
Light Scumread:
Vaimes - For being the highest poster, not very useful posts. Almost overly friendly, kinda try-hard.
Strong Scumread:
Vote: Vaimes
This is wolfy.
I'm just going to come directly at this one how?
Also can we all stop with this dumb posting style of making attacks but not explaining them at all? This isn't MU.
Tom/GJ have already done this this game. You don't get to make vague statements that other people can then fill in their own thoughts to support. Its a bastard way of arguing and playing this game.
My reads are tone based, because that's all you got 100 posts in.
As far as why I don't like osie, I don't believe his list in genuine. 54 posts in with more than half of them being ***** posts, and he is trying to seriously get a read on that? It reads like busy work trying to look like he is town doing some hunting. 4 nulls out of 15? I have like 8, and the rest of you with a straight face, tell me otherwise.
As far as my style, lynch me if you don't like it. I went 9+ months without playing, another few months won't kill me. Fleshed out reads come after day 1, because tone is the only ******* thing you have to go with on day 1 because you don't know T/W interactions.
Hey.
If you're town you should want people to listen to you. You just made a good reason for why you think these things. You should do exactly what you posted here instead of the "This is wolfy". Because I'm just going to ask why. Most people should just ask why, because I want to understand why you think these things and if you are just making attacks or not.
Yeah, its slightly busy work. However, Osie has been attacked for this before on MAL. I don't agree with this thought. We have a lot longer to come up with a lynch on MTGS than on MU. If this was MU I might agree with you. However, do you really think that sort of "Busy work" is going to work on MTGS with longer posting days? Its going to become pretty apparent its just busy work pretty quickly here.
if you keep expecting, legit answers from Tom, you will be solely disappointed...
Osie has a good strat for tom, "Scum read him until proven otherwise."
also I agree on GJ...
Vez, GJ, and Vaimes, seem like good focuses for now
Lastwhisper is a sheep. He is either town, or exactly wolves with DV.
You are vastly underestimating LW I'd advise you to not.
Yeah, I'm gonna say you are scum and that at least one other person in the townblock is scum.
vote tomsloger
Statistically, the first person to suggest a townblock is scum. I'm restricted to phone posting this week so I can't provide examples, but I'll try when I have the time.
Osie, your reasons just sound so forced. Like, you don't have to have a list <100 posts into the game. In particular, the explanation for the extremes are not reasonable to me. Like GJ said, having ideas based on people's tones is one thing (and this early on, how much more can you realistically have, barring an extreme town/scumslip), but this just strikes me as trying to be helpful for the sake of looking like you're trying to be helpful.
Alternatively, saying "you need to see more" is incredibly obvious for people that have <5 posts. Of course you do! Why justify it unless the reasoning was a stretch/fabricated to begin with? To answer the question you proposed to Vaimes, it doesn't necessarily make you wrong. It just makes you look like you're trying to do busywork.
@Fuwa: Not sure I'll get a real answer, but are you a gimmick?
@Vezok: I'm gonna need to see some evidence re: Tom/88. But I like this post.
@DV: Will you go into more detail re: how Osie echoed your thoughts?
It doesn’t ping me as scum/intentionally wrong coming from vezok.
I don’t really think you’re scum here, and it’s possible I misread your post considering I’m skimming at work. But some gaps and statements jumped out at me and I’d like for you to clarify them, once I get the chance to sit down.
Osie, your reasons just sound so forced. Like, you don't have to have a list <100 posts into the game. In particular, the explanation for the extremes are not reasonable to me. Like GJ said, having ideas based on people's tones is one thing (and this early on, how much more can you realistically have, barring an extreme town/scumslip), but this just strikes me as trying to be helpful for the sake of looking like you're trying to be helpful.
Alternatively, saying "you need to see more" is incredibly obvious for people that have <5 posts. Of course you do! Why justify it unless the reasoning was a stretch/fabricated to begin with? To answer the question you proposed to Vaimes, it doesn't necessarily make you wrong. It just makes you look like you're trying to do busywork.
@Fuwa: Not sure I'll get a real answer, but are you a gimmick?
@Vezok: I'm gonna need to see some evidence re: Tom/88. But I like this post.
@DV: Will you go into more detail re: how Osie echoed your thoughts?
Ignoring the Confirm town thing at the beginning(I never know how to approach those things).
I was getting similar ideas off of Anak.
I understand his reasoning on me. There is more too it than that, but I'm not really interested in getting into it.
The Nulls are W/E. But he did make a point of mentioning them versus those that hadn't posted. Its a complete list versus just a "I have good reads on these people list."
GJ was slightly pining me too. I'll be interested to see what Osie says about him after GJ and my back and forth.
kpaca is slightly more neutral for me, but I'm uncertain if Osie has this in order of scuminess or not.
Tom is literally my approach as well.
Wuffles looks stranger this game. I'll need to go back and reread Arkham early game.
Yeah and Vaimes seems to be 100% this. Its this weird move of making large statements that really are not useful at all. Which is why I find GJ's attack on Osie for "Trying to make it to end game with busy work" laughable.
It doesn’t ping me as scum/intentionally wrong coming from vezok.
I don’t really think you’re scum here, and it’s possible I misread your post considering I’m skimming at work. But some gaps and statements jumped out at me and I’d like for you to clarify them, once I get the chance to sit down.
I see scum have day chat and you need to now phone it in on post 109 already.
You made a statement about a game that had less than 100 posts.
At the time I probabally had 12 posts in the game. If you can't laser in with a quick Iso on what I made up, then I question why the statement was made at all other than a cheap attack.
I always just put myself up top and let that be that. Seems like a silly thing to try and analyze what different players do with themselves, but I've definitely seen people do it.
What would you say the differences are between my attack on Osie versus GJ's, then? Because I will freely admit there is overlapping reasoning there (heck, there was even similar methodology in our voting), and I consider GJ to be a solid player.
Related, why do you think the completeness of this list (which I will take nothing away from) outshines the shortcomings of what I/others consider to be thin reasoning for Osie's reads?
It feels like you just agree with him moreso than you have opinions on his mindset/rationale.
Anyway, I'm home, so now I can get into what's bothering me.
I don't understand why you're pushing a (mostly empty) scumread on me when you're still RVSing Wuffles and not really giving reasons for scumreading me so that people can track your mindset.
I don't understand how you're using the word "dichotomy" here. Two players gave +town reads on you at the beginning of the game. Okay. What's the basis for asserting that one of us has to be scum? In my mind, an obvious example of a dichotomy is something like a CC where it's overwhelmingly more likely to be T/S than any other combination. There's a strong basis for it being T/S. I don't understand how or why you're using the word for me and osie.
I don't understand why you're criticizing GJ for making an empty attack when that's exactly what you've been doing to me.
I don't understand why on earth you think I'm flailing. What does flailing mean to you? Is any sort of self-defence flailing? Do you think that even if I were scum here, that I'd really be that worried about you pushing a naked scumread on me in the beginning of the game?
I don't understand why you think I'd need to ask my scumbuddies how to handle this situation. You're insinuating that I'm crumbling under the pressure of your super scary scumread on me or something.
I read all of your posts, and none of these things make sense to me.
I'm trying to tone down on LAMIST posting as well as self-meta, but neither you nor osie are scumreading me for anything that makes it even remotely likely that I'm mafia.
Apparently D1 is where my play is the weakest. I get pressured a lot, and people find my playstyle super scummy. I have no idea why. In the past I've chalked it up to not being traditionally towny, but clearly it's something else and I'll have to ask people about it post-game.
I'm very hard to mislynch, so no, I don't handle early-game pressure well, because I feel like it's mafia trying to get rid of me before my mindset/interactions clear me.
I don't really like citing a mindmeld as a reason to townread DV. You're completely ignoring that he hasn't given any reasons (and I find it weird to mindmeld the result of the read rather than the process, which is way more important) and that he hasn't voted me despite his push.
Null explanations are weird but whatever.
I don't get the impression that GJ is cozying up to anyone, given that he's been gone a while and is probably just trying to be sociable.
kpaca also hasn't played in a while, and it ~slightly pings me that he could be hiding behind a "wow mafia sure has changed since I stopped playing" facade, but gun to head he's a townlean rather than a scumlean.
I'm not going to give a read on tom, but yeah, he's kinda disengaged so far, and his towncore looks like a pocket.
I thought Wuffles' pocket thing at me was +town. It would be awfully cheeky coming from a scum player, and Wuffles doesn't strike me as being that flavor of cheekiness.
@Vaimes: 6 of 9 posts and you didn't even address me. I'm slightly offended. This is what I get for showing up to a thread on time, and having time during the work day to actually post?
Anyway, I'm home, so now I can get into what's bothering me.
I don't understand why you're pushing a (mostly empty) scumread on me when you're still RVSing Wuffles and not really giving reasons for scumreading me so that people can track your mindset.
I don't understand how you're using the word "dichotomy" here. Two players gave +town reads on you at the beginning of the game. Okay. What's the basis for asserting that one of us has to be scum? In my mind, an obvious example of a dichotomy is something like a CC where it's overwhelmingly more likely to be T/S than any other combination. There's a strong basis for it being T/S. I don't understand how or why you're using the word for me and osie.
I don't understand why you're criticizing GJ for making an empty attack when that's exactly what you've been doing to me.
I don't understand why on earth you think I'm flailing. What does flailing mean to you? Is any sort of self-defence flailing? Do you think that even if I were scum here, that I'd really be that worried about you pushing a naked scumread on me in the beginning of the game?
I don't understand why you think I'd need to ask my scumbuddies how to handle this situation. You're insinuating that I'm crumbling under the pressure of your super scary scumread on me or something.
I read all of your posts, and none of these things make sense to me.
You understand that a lot of these are very leading/self-contained questions, right?
Anyway, I'm home, so now I can get into what's bothering me.
I don't understand why you're pushing a (mostly empty) scumread on me when you're still RVSing Wuffles and not really giving reasons for scumreading me so that people can track your mindset.
I don't understand how you're using the word "dichotomy" here. Two players gave +town reads on you at the beginning of the game. Okay. What's the basis for asserting that one of us has to be scum? In my mind, an obvious example of a dichotomy is something like a CC where it's overwhelmingly more likely to be T/S than any other combination. There's a strong basis for it being T/S. I don't understand how or why you're using the word for me and osie.
I don't understand why you're criticizing GJ for making an empty attack when that's exactly what you've been doing to me.
I don't understand why on earth you think I'm flailing. What does flailing mean to you? Is any sort of self-defence flailing? Do you think that even if I were scum here, that I'd really be that worried about you pushing a naked scumread on me in the beginning of the game?
I don't understand why you think I'd need to ask my scumbuddies how to handle this situation. You're insinuating that I'm crumbling under the pressure of your super scary scumread on me or something.
I read all of your posts, and none of these things make sense to me.
I don't feel like answering one. Uhh something something. I'll just say this though if my vote was on you would that really change anything?
Its a weak clear that looks like an attempt to town read someone. I know I'm town. But your read on me is strange. A. You say is DV this easy to read, when you've played games with me before. B. You, really just parroted someone else. C. It just feels like an attempt to pocket/pick up a town block. D. At this point you're ignoring your own read on me. I just don't see two town just doing this.
I don't understand how me attacking GJ's attack would be invalidated in anyway? What the **** are you smoking. Did you just try and use Tu Quoque?
You haven't defended from my read at all. You just keep trying to short side it. "Look over here" "The people voting me are dumb" "OMGUS" etc.
This isn't even a point.
You still haven't even managed to answer my question.
I want to know why LW asked it because, if she's town, she doesn't know your alignment. And it looks like a soft-defense/WK.
I've played with you before, but you haven't left an impression on me that helps me read you in the future. I have the same problem with osie, and some other players I won't mention. I asked him if you were easy to read because I couldn't tell if he was completely joking or not, and he seemed confident. My read on you at the time was "he looks enthusiastic" which was close enough that I thought it was +town for osie there. Agreeing =/= parroting.
I always just put myself up top and let that be that. Seems like a silly thing to try and analyze what different players do with themselves, but I've definitely seen people do it.
What would you say the differences are between my attack on Osie versus GJ's, then? Because I will freely admit there is overlapping reasoning there (heck, there was even similar methodology in our voting), and I consider GJ to be a solid player.
Related, why do you think the completeness of this list (which I will take nothing away from) outshines the shortcomings of what I/others consider to be thin reasoning for Osie's reads?
It feels like you just agree with him moreso than you have opinions on his mindset/rationale.
No.
I think his mindset is coming from a town perspective. I know I'm town and I know I'm thinking that way, so if Osie is thinking almost identically to me, that probabally means he is town.
Your attack and GJ's attack are different. GJ's almost exclusively comes from a MU mindset. Yours is different. GJ isn't a bad player by any means. I think GJ is slightly rusty, and been on MU for a while.
I don't see why scum would both with a complete list. Where is the scum mindset for that. I see more of a town mindset in that of trying to keep everyone in mind in the game.
Because anyone reading the thread would have asked that question?
But like... 14 people didn't.
love you, dan
-
Oh, DV, as for voting me making a difference: yes. If you push a scumread without voting the person, that objectively looks weird and you're going to be asked about it.
As for the GJ thing, uh. All I did was point out that you're being a hypocrite. You can lecture GJ about empty attacks, but when you do it it's perfectly fine? Why is this hard?
I think his mindset is coming from a town perspective. I know I'm town and I know I'm thinking that way, so if Osie is thinking almost identically to me, that probabally means he is town.
So here, we disagree. I accept this answer, even if I think you're wrong in your analysis/perception. @Osie this is an example of the difference between wrong and scum, if that's desired/needed.
I don't see why scum would both with a complete list. Where is the scum mindset for that. I see more of a town mindset in that of trying to keep everyone in mind in the game.
Scum mindset is attempting to provide information to look towny. Generating reads, giving people things to comment on. If they're going to supply a list at all, at that point in the game, how different is an incomplete list from a complete one, when you can just write half the thread off as "I need more information?"
It bothers me that you didn't think that far here. From what I can remember, you know well enough to not have to imply that question.
@Vaimes: 6 of 9 posts and you didn't even address me. I'm slightly offended. This is what I get for showing up to a thread on time, and having time during the work day to actually post?
Anyway, I'm home, so now I can get into what's bothering me.
I don't understand why you're pushing a (mostly empty) scumread on me when you're still RVSing Wuffles and not really giving reasons for scumreading me so that people can track your mindset.
I don't understand how you're using the word "dichotomy" here. Two players gave +town reads on you at the beginning of the game. Okay. What's the basis for asserting that one of us has to be scum? In my mind, an obvious example of a dichotomy is something like a CC where it's overwhelmingly more likely to be T/S than any other combination. There's a strong basis for it being T/S. I don't understand how or why you're using the word for me and osie.
I don't understand why you're criticizing GJ for making an empty attack when that's exactly what you've been doing to me.
I don't understand why on earth you think I'm flailing. What does flailing mean to you? Is any sort of self-defence flailing? Do you think that even if I were scum here, that I'd really be that worried about you pushing a naked scumread on me in the beginning of the game?
I don't understand why you think I'd need to ask my scumbuddies how to handle this situation. You're insinuating that I'm crumbling under the pressure of your super scary scumread on me or something.
I read all of your posts, and none of these things make sense to me.
You understand that a lot of these are very leading/self-contained questions, right?
Sorry? I see you. Hi.
I don't intend for them to make DV look bad or anything. I posted what I was thinking.
I want to know why LW asked it because, if she's town, she doesn't know your alignment. And it looks like a soft-defense/WK.
I've played with you before, but you haven't left an impression on me that helps me read you in the future. I have the same problem with osie, and some other players I won't mention. I asked him if you were easy to read because I couldn't tell if he was completely joking or not, and he seemed confident. My read on you at the time was "he looks enthusiastic" which was close enough that I thought it was +town for osie there. Agreeing =/= parroting.
Last is a guy BTW.
So let me get this straight. You don't know how to read me, but attempted to slightly town clear me based off of something as ethereal as "he looks enthusiastic" on page one?
You still have yet to address where I was "Making up" things.
DV, I don't really want to get into a quote war here, so I'll answer whatever question you had that I missed and move on.
No that's not fine.
Your attack on me specifically for the GJ thing was low. You either get to answer these questions or admit that you fabricated a bunch of stuff in an attempt to defend yourself.
I don't think noting something that feels towny is in any way a townclear. Apparently you've had several scumgames in a row, so if you're in a good mood, there's a non-zero chance it's because you're town.
Re: making things up: your use of the word dichotomy, your scumread on me, your use of the word flailing.
Oh, Vaimes, you answered. Your tone/phrasing (repetition, providing obvious answers to the questions) makes it seem like you are trying to paint DV in a negative light.
DV, I don't really want to get into a quote war here, so I'll answer whatever question you had that I missed and move on.
No that's not fine.
Your attack on me specifically for the GJ thing was low. You either get to answer these questions or admit that you fabricated a bunch of stuff in an attempt to defend yourself.
I don't think it was low at all.
And apparently you have a secret reason for doing exactly what you accused GJ of doing, so...
I don't really know what to do with that except say "okay" and move on.
Unless you want to tell me why you won't vote for me, that's that.
Oh, Vaimes, you answered. Your tone/phrasing (repetition, providing obvious answers to the questions) makes it seem like you are trying to paint DV in a negative light.
Mm, okay.
I am not trying to pain him in a negateive light in an alignment-sense. I think a lot of what he's doing is bad, but not scummy.
DV, I don't really want to get into a quote war here, so I'll answer whatever question you had that I missed and move on.
No that's not fine.
Your attack on me specifically for the GJ thing was low. You either get to answer these questions or admit that you fabricated a bunch of stuff in an attempt to defend yourself.
I don't think it was low at all.
And apparently you have a secret reason for doing exactly what you accused GJ of doing, so...
I don't really know what to do with that except say "okay" and move on.
Unless you want to tell me why you won't vote for me, that's that.
No. I've A. Defended my actions and given responses. B. Tu Quoque fallacy isn't a legitimate attack and you should know better.
Vote Vaimes
You are completely misrepresenting my post. Ignoring other parts of it. And trying to diminish all legitimacy of any attacks on you.
anyway, my treatment of DV is going to be on the snarky side since I hate butting heads with people over their read of me, which is why I'm trying to end this back-and-forth
I'm trying to tone down on LAMIST posting as well as self-meta, but neither you nor osie are scumreading me for anything that makes it even remotely likely that I'm mafia.
Apparently D1 is where my play is the weakest. I get pressured a lot, and people find my playstyle super scummy. I have no idea why. In the past I've chalked it up to not being traditionally towny, but clearly it's something else and I'll have to ask people about it post-game.
I'm very hard to mislynch, so no, I don't handle early-game pressure well, because I feel like it's mafia trying to get rid of me before my mindset/interactions clear me.
omg vaimes is literally me, holy ***** xD, give or take a few personality traits,
I will be auto-scumreading everyone who refers to "wolf" rather than "scum" or "mafia".
Tomsloger obv scumslip with mario hat.
No more than one scum exists in DV/vaimes/g_d. The rest are sitting back letting the argument serve as a distraction/cover.
Gut shot reads: g_d feels the towniest; best reasoning. D_V is the scum, pushing Vaimes because he thinks he can get away with it. Smells like faux righteous indignation.
I'm not trying to misrep you, I'm trying to understand you, but I feel like it's just going to make it worse if I keep poking you, so.
That's done.
Some how in this sentence, you've attempted to diffuse the argument, but also not admitted what you have argued is wrong. You are still trying to keep me painted in a negative light, while also trying to walk away.
I will be auto-scumreading everyone who refers to "wolf" rather than "scum" or "mafia".
Tomsloger obv scumslip with mario hat.
No more than one scum exists in DV/vaimes/g_d. The rest are sitting back letting the argument serve as a distraction/cover.
Gut shot reads: g_d feels the towniest; best reasoning. D_V is the scum, pushing Vaimes because he thinks he can get away with it. Smells like faux righteous indignation.
I'm going to give an interesting response to this.
Even if I'm scum its never faux. Its also interesting that you ignore mentioning Vaimes at all.
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Lastwhisper is a sheep. He is either town, or exactly wolves with DV.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Such as?
I literally just had a long post asking for explanations on this. Are you even reading what I'm writing?
Hey.
If you're town you should want people to listen to you. You just made a good reason for why you think these things. You should do exactly what you posted here instead of the "This is wolfy". Because I'm just going to ask why. Most people should just ask why, because I want to understand why you think these things and if you are just making attacks or not.
Yeah, its slightly busy work. However, Osie has been attacked for this before on MAL. I don't agree with this thought. We have a lot longer to come up with a lynch on MTGS than on MU. If this was MU I might agree with you. However, do you really think that sort of "Busy work" is going to work on MTGS with longer posting days? Its going to become pretty apparent its just busy work pretty quickly here.
You are vastly underestimating LW I'd advise you to not.
well off to work
I'd like to just add to this too.
How do you even get off saying this when Vezo says
Statistically this sounds made up as hell.
Alternatively, saying "you need to see more" is incredibly obvious for people that have <5 posts. Of course you do! Why justify it unless the reasoning was a stretch/fabricated to begin with? To answer the question you proposed to Vaimes, it doesn't necessarily make you wrong. It just makes you look like you're trying to do busywork.
@Fuwa: Not sure I'll get a real answer, but are you a gimmick?
@Vezok: I'm gonna need to see some evidence re: Tom/88. But I like this post.
@DV: Will you go into more detail re: how Osie echoed your thoughts?
I don’t really think you’re scum here, and it’s possible I misread your post considering I’m skimming at work. But some gaps and statements jumped out at me and I’d like for you to clarify them, once I get the chance to sit down.
Ignoring the Confirm town thing at the beginning(I never know how to approach those things).
I was getting similar ideas off of Anak.
I understand his reasoning on me. There is more too it than that, but I'm not really interested in getting into it.
The Nulls are W/E. But he did make a point of mentioning them versus those that hadn't posted. Its a complete list versus just a "I have good reads on these people list."
GJ was slightly pining me too. I'll be interested to see what Osie says about him after GJ and my back and forth.
kpaca is slightly more neutral for me, but I'm uncertain if Osie has this in order of scuminess or not.
Tom is literally my approach as well.
Wuffles looks stranger this game. I'll need to go back and reread Arkham early game.
Yeah and Vaimes seems to be 100% this. Its this weird move of making large statements that really are not useful at all. Which is why I find GJ's attack on Osie for "Trying to make it to end game with busy work" laughable.
I see scum have day chat and you need to now phone it in on post 109 already.
You must not think too highly of me as a player.
You made a statement about a game that had less than 100 posts.
At the time I probabally had 12 posts in the game. If you can't laser in with a quick Iso on what I made up, then I question why the statement was made at all other than a cheap attack.
Tomsloger - 3 (Vaimes, KamikazeArchon, vezokpiraka)
Vaimes - 2 (Anaklusmos, Osieorb18)
Osieorb18 - 2 (Lastwhisper, ganderin_dan)
Wuffles_II - 1 (D_V)
D_V - 1 (Wuffles_II)
Gentleman Johnny - 1 (kpaca)
Vezokpiraka - 1 (Grapefruit21)
Anaklusmos - 1 (Tomsloger)
Grapefruit21 - 1 (Fuwa)
Not Voting - 3 (Rodemy, Tubba Fett, Gentleman Johnny)
(With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch)
Day 1 ends on July 3rd at 2000 Mountain time.
What would you say the differences are between my attack on Osie versus GJ's, then? Because I will freely admit there is overlapping reasoning there (heck, there was even similar methodology in our voting), and I consider GJ to be a solid player.
Related, why do you think the completeness of this list (which I will take nothing away from) outshines the shortcomings of what I/others consider to be thin reasoning for Osie's reads?
It feels like you just agree with him moreso than you have opinions on his mindset/rationale.
I have to use landscape mode to ISO, and I'm not going to write paragraphs on my phone at work.
I don't understand why you're pushing a (mostly empty) scumread on me when you're still RVSing Wuffles and not really giving reasons for scumreading me so that people can track your mindset.
I don't understand how you're using the word "dichotomy" here. Two players gave +town reads on you at the beginning of the game. Okay. What's the basis for asserting that one of us has to be scum? In my mind, an obvious example of a dichotomy is something like a CC where it's overwhelmingly more likely to be T/S than any other combination. There's a strong basis for it being T/S. I don't understand how or why you're using the word for me and osie.
I don't understand why you're criticizing GJ for making an empty attack when that's exactly what you've been doing to me.
I don't understand why on earth you think I'm flailing. What does flailing mean to you? Is any sort of self-defence flailing? Do you think that even if I were scum here, that I'd really be that worried about you pushing a naked scumread on me in the beginning of the game?
I don't understand why you think I'd need to ask my scumbuddies how to handle this situation. You're insinuating that I'm crumbling under the pressure of your super scary scumread on me or something.
I read all of your posts, and none of these things make sense to me.
Apparently D1 is where my play is the weakest. I get pressured a lot, and people find my playstyle super scummy. I have no idea why. In the past I've chalked it up to not being traditionally towny, but clearly it's something else and I'll have to ask people about it post-game.
I'm very hard to mislynch, so no, I don't handle early-game pressure well, because I feel like it's mafia trying to get rid of me before my mindset/interactions clear me.
HEY Tom.
Its me DV.
How was Osie flailing?
I don't really like citing a mindmeld as a reason to townread DV. You're completely ignoring that he hasn't given any reasons (and I find it weird to mindmeld the result of the read rather than the process, which is way more important) and that he hasn't voted me despite his push.
Null explanations are weird but whatever.
I don't get the impression that GJ is cozying up to anyone, given that he's been gone a while and is probably just trying to be sociable.
kpaca also hasn't played in a while, and it ~slightly pings me that he could be hiding behind a "wow mafia sure has changed since I stopped playing" facade, but gun to head he's a townlean rather than a scumlean.
I'm not going to give a read on tom, but yeah, he's kinda disengaged so far, and his towncore looks like a pocket.
I thought Wuffles' pocket thing at me was +town. It would be awfully cheeky coming from a scum player, and Wuffles doesn't strike me as being that flavor of cheekiness.
Also vezok and kpaca if I squint.
I want to townread GJ.
Jury's still out on osie.
LW creeps me out a little bit. Their posting reminds me of scum!dbs.
Hey Tom that's not an answer yo.
You understand that a lot of these are very leading/self-contained questions, right?
I'm just going to hit this one because this question annoys me.
Because anyone reading the thread would have asked that question?
I don't feel like answering one. Uhh something something. I'll just say this though if my vote was on you would that really change anything?
Its a weak clear that looks like an attempt to town read someone. I know I'm town. But your read on me is strange. A. You say is DV this easy to read, when you've played games with me before. B. You, really just parroted someone else. C. It just feels like an attempt to pocket/pick up a town block. D. At this point you're ignoring your own read on me. I just don't see two town just doing this.
I don't understand how me attacking GJ's attack would be invalidated in anyway? What the **** are you smoking. Did you just try and use Tu Quoque?
You haven't defended from my read at all. You just keep trying to short side it. "Look over here" "The people voting me are dumb" "OMGUS" etc.
This isn't even a point.
You still haven't even managed to answer my question.
tom could be scum, but I have no confidence in that read, given it feels like he's doing this on purpose.
But like... 14 people didn't.
I want to know why LW asked it because, if she's town, she doesn't know your alignment. And it looks like a soft-defense/WK.
I've played with you before, but you haven't left an impression on me that helps me read you in the future. I have the same problem with osie, and some other players I won't mention. I asked him if you were easy to read because I couldn't tell if he was completely joking or not, and he seemed confident. My read on you at the time was "he looks enthusiastic" which was close enough that I thought it was +town for osie there. Agreeing =/= parroting.
No.
I think his mindset is coming from a town perspective. I know I'm town and I know I'm thinking that way, so if Osie is thinking almost identically to me, that probabally means he is town.
Your attack and GJ's attack are different. GJ's almost exclusively comes from a MU mindset. Yours is different. GJ isn't a bad player by any means. I think GJ is slightly rusty, and been on MU for a while.
I don't see why scum would both with a complete list. Where is the scum mindset for that. I see more of a town mindset in that of trying to keep everyone in mind in the game.
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Oh, DV, as for voting me making a difference: yes. If you push a scumread without voting the person, that objectively looks weird and you're going to be asked about it.
As for the GJ thing, uh. All I did was point out that you're being a hypocrite. You can lecture GJ about empty attacks, but when you do it it's perfectly fine? Why is this hard?
So here, we disagree. I accept this answer, even if I think you're wrong in your analysis/perception. @Osie this is an example of the difference between wrong and scum, if that's desired/needed.
Scum mindset is attempting to provide information to look towny. Generating reads, giving people things to comment on. If they're going to supply a list at all, at that point in the game, how different is an incomplete list from a complete one, when you can just write half the thread off as "I need more information?"
It bothers me that you didn't think that far here. From what I can remember, you know well enough to not have to imply that question.
Vaimes 129
I don't intend for them to make DV look bad or anything. I posted what I was thinking.
Yeah except only like 3 people were in the thread.
GJ, myself and LW. So 2/3 people attempted to ask this question.
Last is a guy BTW.
So let me get this straight. You don't know how to read me, but attempted to slightly town clear me based off of something as ethereal as "he looks enthusiastic" on page one?
You still have yet to address where I was "Making up" things.
No that's not fine.
Your attack on me specifically for the GJ thing was low. You either get to answer these questions or admit that you fabricated a bunch of stuff in an attempt to defend yourself.
Re: making things up: your use of the word dichotomy, your scumread on me, your use of the word flailing.
And apparently you have a secret reason for doing exactly what you accused GJ of doing, so...
I don't really know what to do with that except say "okay" and move on.
Unless you want to tell me why you won't vote for me, that's that.
I am not trying to pain him in a negateive light in an alignment-sense. I think a lot of what he's doing is bad, but not scummy.
No. I've A. Defended my actions and given responses. B. Tu Quoque fallacy isn't a legitimate attack and you should know better.
Vote Vaimes
You are completely misrepresenting my post. Ignoring other parts of it. And trying to diminish all legitimacy of any attacks on you.
Tomsloger obv scumslip with mario hat.
No more than one scum exists in DV/vaimes/g_d. The rest are sitting back letting the argument serve as a distraction/cover.
Gut shot reads: g_d feels the towniest; best reasoning. D_V is the scum, pushing Vaimes because he thinks he can get away with it. Smells like faux righteous indignation.
Never heard of Tu Quoque.
I'm not trying to misrep you, I'm trying to understand you, but I feel like it's just going to make it worse if I keep poking you, so.
That's done.
I am asking you WHY your thing vs. GJ's is different. I don't know why you're freaking out over this one thing.
I am not wrong for wanting you to lay out reasons for your actions.
Some how in this sentence, you've attempted to diffuse the argument, but also not admitted what you have argued is wrong. You are still trying to keep me painted in a negative light, while also trying to walk away.
I'm going to give an interesting response to this.
Even if I'm scum its never faux. Its also interesting that you ignore mentioning Vaimes at all.