Each game has two town players and one mafia player.
Roles have been distributed completely randomly, so the alignments of one game have no bearing on any other.
There is no flavour or character names.
Play consists of one Day phase with a standard majority (2) lynch.
Town wins if they lynch the mafia. The mafia wins if they don't.
When a faction in a game wins, each team whose player in that game is a part of that faction gains a point.
The team with the most points at the end of the three games wins. Ties will not be broken.
Day will last for seven real life days.
If the deadline hits without a lynch ocurring, all teams receive a loss for that game.
No funny business, like deliberately making an invalild vote (e.g. breaking bold tags or mispelling names).
Teams may talk freely and discuss all three games within their designated QTs or MTGS PMs. Please do not use other channels since the content of team's chats is valuable data.
You may NOT directly quote messages from your QT into a game thread - so other players cannot write your posts for you.
Feedback is encouraged at any point. The more we have, the better the full version of the competition will be!
Role PMs are going out now. Everyone please confirm by PM. The games will start once everyone has confirmed.
Rules Update: Following MafiaScum's lead, teams are forbidden from suggesting (implicitly or excplitly) that any member of their team might not be town. This means you cannot, for example, claim that your team recevied any scum role PMs.
So, first thing: votes should probably be FOSes instead. It still allows you to 'vote' as you normally would (allowing the analysis that goes along with that) and doesn't actually lead to anyone's quick and untimely death.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Hi everyone! Time to activate my superpower where I catch scum early D1 and then nobody listens to me and I make forty million angry posts in combination of complaining of whining (and whining and complaining) and then I quit mafia again after the game is over!
I don't know what I'm doing. I had a post or something but I erased it. I wanna solve this game by seeing a good amount of activity and feeling it out.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Roflmao. Sorry for scaring you but it's customary at this point. If he _was_was in this game (I love how i default to underscores now, thanks slack/discord) I would be really torn because it's my signature thing.
The post was just fluff. I thought I was asking questions but it was all pointless. I'll be honest I'm terrified because there's only one death and then win or lose Need to make this seem like not as much as a coin flip as possible but then I'm also scared I'll never get over that notion and further still the fear itself will keep me from moving on... vicious cycle style.
For example I was convinced of scum on D1 of Wheat's Katawa Shoujo game but it took me until N3 to work up the courage to use my vigshot.
Then next game (Majora's mask I think) I was given a vig shot and felt confident after my last performance, shot way too soon and blew someone up that I definitely should've known better was town.
Unless my intuition strikes again hard I might not vote until the very end.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I'm leaving shortly and will be absent the (most of) rest of the night but I'll have a good chunk of time tomorrow to contribute, and more importantly read, as much as possible.
I;m also leaving shortlyish for D&D. I won't be available tomorrow night because work. I might be available that morning for a few hours. (You're East Coast I think so that'll be early afternoon for you.)
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
The Azrael/KJ/Kpaca team is called "Feral Octegenarians".
I have been asked about mentioning the other games, so I'm again going to defer to MafiaScum:
1. There are no restrictions for what players can post in their QT's outside of not breaking site rules. The rules for this section refer to what players can talk about in their ongoing games.
2. Players are only allowed to talk about mod-confirmed things from other ongoing Team Mafia games.
EXAMPLES OF THINGS THAT ARE ALLOWED
Stating who is on what team (NOT faction).
Stating what Day or Night another game is in.
Stating how many players are left alive on a team (NOT faction).
Stating how many town or scum are alive in another game.
Stating whether a dead player in another game has flipped town or scum.
3. Any public speculation about other ongoing games is prohibited.
4. Any attempt to publically signal players from other ongoing games, pass messages to players from other games, or otherwise communicate through the use of cryptography is prohibited.
5. Do not try to loophole these rules. If anyone has questions at any point about what is allowed or not allowed please message me.
So basically you may comment on public, mod confirmed information in the other games but you may not attempt to communicate with another game or publically influence it.
So what can we talk about? What I think we need to do is look for someone who's clearly motivated to try and just get a vote to happen rather than figure out who the right person to vote is. The scum instantly win as soon as a towny votes someone anyone who isn't them and they have a little udner a week to get that done.
How can we protect ourselves from the wool over our eyes and spot that kind of behavior? What are some obvious tells of someone forcing a vote instead of scumhunting? I feel like I've learned almost nothing in the 5 times I've played this game
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Well, hopefully work will be slow enough over the week that I can check and reply regularly, or I'll only get to pop in during the evenings after work. Probably not the best for you Killjoy
We'll see, but that's what my schedule will look like.
Sorry. I was pretty bummed that this didn't fire last Thursday/Friday when I could have contributed some before the weekend. I have literally been painting and doing home repairs since 7pm on Friday, just got home, have work in 6 hours, going to bed, will contribute tomorrow.
How's the weather over in your neck of the woods, Killjoy?
On topic. I feel like I could keep coming up with things to say but like you pointed out Killjoy talking in a vacuum is going to be me forcing posts at a certain point. I think I started a halfway-decent conversation, and if you disagree, feel free to start a better one.
The only thing worse than a vacuum is a double vacuum adjacent to a black hole
Sorry to be the black hole. I'll post when I can. I knew it was going to be tricky playing this when I'm so busy, but couldn't resist giving it a try.
Initial Thoughts:
I'm amused that I'm playing a game with KJ and JK.
@Jey:
• Have you really only played 5 games?
• Trying to decide whether your exuberance is excited town or nervous scum.
• Not sure what to think of the "had a post or something, it got erased" comment. Why would you mention it like that then not summarize or try to recreate it? That doesn't seem helpful; it feels like you are trying to appear like you were being helpful (even before the game began, yo).
• What do you feel Killjoy has contributed to the game so far?
@KJ:
• What analysis do FOS's actually lend themselves to in a game like this? No flips, no wagons...how are you going to use FOS's to determine anything?
• If Jey really *had* come in and voted one of the two of us in their first post, why would that have made you angry?
• Do you see what I see in Jey's #6?
@Eco: Did you realize that your "Feral Octogenarians" announcement listed KJ as being on that team instead of Iso?
-I went back and actually counted, I've played 7 games here and 3 games IRL.
-I had to actually look up exuberance for a precise definition but it's just how I play.
-Another note on my playstyle is 'stream of consciousness', I just fast-finger what I'm thinking. I rarely delete stuff but when I do you can be assured it's absolute garbage. If I had stuff I could actually summarize there you definitely wouldn't have needed to ask about it; it would've been there. To this day I'm still trying to figure out how to catch scum amongst two people with zero gamestate information to go from (wagons, flips, etc).
-...I read through his posts and honestly that's a good question. Only thing I've gathered is he believes slow and steady will win the race.
---
Deja vu on KJ/JK. That definitely happened... last game I was in? oh well.
So what can we talk about? What I think we need to do is look for someone who's clearly motivated to try and just get a vote to happen rather than figure out who the right person to vote is. The scum instantly win as soon as a towny votes someone anyone who isn't them and they have a little udner a week to get that done.
How can we protect ourselves from the wool over our eyes and spot that kind of behavior? What are some obvious tells of someone forcing a vote instead of scumhunting? I feel like I've learned almost nothing in the 5 times I've played this game
This games gonna be hard. Breaking out of RVS is hard enough in a 12 player game, and this is 3 players.
My strategy is just keep talking because someone will say something telling at some point. How do you know it's telling? Look at the intent of the post.
Like, I'm looking at your initial post where you lay out your ineptitude at mafia, and I'm asking myself why.
Actually, I'll ask you. Why did you make that post? (post 6)
Talking theory with us is GERNERALLY gonna be useless in a game of unknown alignments, so for 2 of us we won't be able to trust it.That said, I don't have an alternative.
@KJ:
• What analysis do FOS's actually lend themselves to in a game like this? No flips, no wagons...how are you going to use FOS's to determine anything?
• If Jey really *had* come in and voted one of the two of us in their first post, why would that have made you angry?
• Do you see what I see in Jey's #6?
@Eco: Did you realize that your "Feral Octogenarians" announcement listed KJ as being on that team instead of Iso?
FOSes preserve the instinct to vote while at the same time not putting any risk on ending the game accidentally. It's not AS telling as votes but we really can't afford votes. I guess in a game this size it doesn't matter THAT much but still. It's something to consider.
If Jey had come in with a vote on one of us, I would have been mad because it would either A) End the game if you're scum, B) lead to the stupid endgame where scum and town are crossvoting and one person is confirmed.
A is bad for obvious reasons. B is bad because it's not a game anymore. It's just a slapfight between the two voters about why the other is scum and its just... less fun. Mafia is a social game and this eliminates part of that.
As far as #6 goes... I see a few things. Newb card despite having played 7 games plus having a chat with experianced players to help with her reads if she needs. Which makes her nervousness a little excessive. I'd like to explore a bit more though because I would prefer a town read on one slot to a scum read. Its harder for scum to do town things than it is town to do scum things.
Also. Hm. @Jey/Cantrip: How do you plan to solve this game?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
-I went back and actually counted, I've played 7 games here and 3 games IRL.
Crazy. For some reason I had you in my mind as more experienced. Not that you're a newb or anything, but I thought you were more of a veteran.
Quote from Jey »
-Another note on my playstyle is 'stream of consciousness', I just fast-finger what I'm thinking. I rarely delete stuff but when I do you can be assured it's absolute garbage. If I had stuff I could actually summarize there you definitely wouldn't have needed to ask about it; it would've been there.
So why mention it?
Quote from Jey »
-...I read through his posts and honestly that's a good question. Only thing I've gathered is he believes slow and steady will win the race.
FOSes preserve the instinct to vote while at the same time not putting any risk on ending the game accidentally. It's not AS telling as votes but we really can't afford votes. I guess in a game this size it doesn't matter THAT much but still. It's something to consider.
Ok, but...like, let's say I FOS'd you in 17 because I didn't feel like you were contributing much (I *did* feel that way). Then this post I un-FOS you because you contributed (I also feel this way, but I definitely need more from you). Either a) I include my reasoning, in which case my suspicion is already on record and can be pointed back to without relying on FOS's, or b) I don't include my reasoning, in which case my FOS is near worthless. Either way, the FOS itself doesn't actually DO anything.
Your suggestion feels like you're trying to suggest something that sounds townie, but in reality doesn't help. There's a chance that this comes from town, but it makes me raise an eyebrow.
Quote from Killjoy »
If Jey had come in with a vote on one of us, I would have been mad because it would either A) End the game if you're scum, B) lead to the stupid endgame where scum and town are crossvoting and one person is confirmed.
A is bad for obvious reasons. B is bad because it's not a game anymore. It's just a slapfight between the two voters about why the other is scum and its just... less fun. Mafia is a social game and this eliminates part of that.
I like this response.
Quote from Killjoy »
As far as #6 goes... I see a few things. Newb card despite having played 7 games plus having a chat with experianced players to help with her reads if she needs. Which makes her nervousness a little excessive. I'd like to explore a bit more though because I would prefer a town read on one slot to a scum read. Its harder for scum to do town things than it is town to do scum things.
I'll come back to this.
Quote from Killjoy »
Also. Hm. @Jey/Cantrip: How do you plan to solve this game?
I'll get back to you on that.
@JeyK: What do you think about Killjoy's assertion that your #6 comes off as excessively nervous? Also, do you think I like or dislike how he responded to my question (about your post #6)? Why/why not?
Okay ffs I really need to stop saying 'I have no idea what I'm doing' because I do that every game and it's just an excuse at this point. Even if I have no idea how to play this game that doesn't mean I can't figure out how. There's no gosh darn reason to convince myself that I'm afraid. Time to ***** up; get my hands dirty; start actually playing this damn game.
Anyway, to answer your question Killjoy, I posted that because I was answering your question and explaining how I felt.
So my first attempt at this nonsense was trying to point out how scum would play in hopes they get really self conscious and out themselves or whatever. I feel like I could easily call that out. Nobody wanted to talk to me though. Whatever.
Another idea: This game might be flavorless, but that's where I excel; My imagination. Let's add some flavor.
We're 3 robbers going on an elaborate, high-stakes heist and we find that our equipment has been tampered with and collectively rule that someone is planning on double cross us. Now, without any physical evidence whatsoever, have to figure out who the double-crosser is and kill them for justice or whatever. How do we do that? So the double-crosser might take two routes, try to be quiet and see if an innocent is suspicious about the other innocent and jump on that wagon, or they could start the discussion and be the first to point a finger and hopes to sway an innocent with influence. There are many inbetweens this scenario has too.
As an innocent, I need to see who is more motivated to get someone killed than someone who is motivated to find out who is screwing their team over. So, there's the factors of the heist itself and its rewards to consider in this hypothetical but not in this mafia game, so I can't appeal to certain emotions of guilt or greed. Maybe I would provoke reactions and analyze them.
...
I've been thinking about this and typing bits here and there at work but I have nothing better than "Read what they're saying and point my gun at whoever I feel worse about". That's it. I would need to see some reasoning and see that motivation to find the double-crosser and hope for the best. That seems... so *****ty though. Whoever I feel worse about. That's the best I got.
---
Looks like Cantrip has been busy while I've been ticking away Let's see what I can do for you here.
Crazy. For some reason I had you in my mind as more experienced. Not that you're a newb or anything, but I thought you were more of a veteran.
Nope. I played here a long time ago, disappeared for a few years, came back to co-host Iso's game and then I got inspired to play one myself! And then I remembered why I didn't play and disappeared again ...I want to say I'm going to strangle Wheat later for convincing me to play again but I'm actually having a good time in this one.
@JeyK: What do you think about Killjoy's assertion that your #6 comes off as excessively nervous? Also, do you think I like or dislike how he responded to my question (about your post #6)? Why/why not?
I disagree I'm excessively nervous, but I was nervous at first and I am dramatic in general, so I don't blame him for making that call.
I think you hate my answer becuase I just assume everyone hates everyhting I say regardless but if you want me to read it again and make a more objective assessment...
Well I read my answer three times and this question another two times and I have no clue. Four times... Yup I'm lost.
---
Okay Cantrip, we can play this game. How would you have expected town!JeY and scum!JeY to reply to that question? The newest one you asked, for clarification.
Why are you waiting to answer Killjoy?
---
I think I generally agree that FOS doens't really contribute much. I like 'X is scummier than Y', it feels like substance.
On that note...
I'm not sure who I feel worse about right now. I get better feelings about Cantrip's play so far, for what it's worth.
I just woke up from power napping at my desk, let's do this:
I think you don't like it, but not in a way that doesn't seem scummy, it just doesn't add too much. He said it's easier for town to do scum than scum to do town, but that should be obvious I think?
Okay and now my first question to you from before is back on.
Once upon a time I made an insanity wolf meme "Forget edit button | quadruple post that *****" And I use it whenever I get to this point but sadly I'm at work.
So my first attempt at this nonsense was trying to point out how scum would play in hopes they get really self conscious and out themselves or whatever. I feel like I could easily call that out. Nobody wanted to talk to me though. Whatever.
Are you talking about #12, or a different post? If 12, I'd see over-anxiousness and being excessively eager to jump on scumtells as behavior trending toward wanting a vote (any vote). But I disagree that that's the only avenue to finding sucm. I'm not entirely sure that I want to list all my ideas, as I'd rather not map out to the scum how to fool me.
Quote from Jey »
Another idea: This game might be flavorless, but that's where I excel; My imagination. Let's add some flavor.
We're 3 robbers going on an elaborate, high-stakes heist and we find that our equipment has been tampered with and collectively rule that someone is planning on double cross us. Now, without any physical evidence whatsoever, have to figure out who the double-crosser is and kill them for justice or whatever. How do we do that? So the double-crosser might take two routes, try to be quiet and see if an innocent is suspicious about the other innocent and jump on that wagon, or they could start the discussion and be the first to point a finger and hopes to sway an innocent with influence. There are many inbetweens this scenario has too.
As an innocent, I need to see who is more motivated to get someone killed than someone who is motivated to find out who is screwing their team over. So, there's the factors of the heist itself and its rewards to consider in this hypothetical but not in this mafia game, so I can't appeal to certain emotions of guilt or greed. Maybe I would provoke reactions and analyze them.
Wut? Like, ok, I'm all about the flavor, too, but I can't really see how this is helpful. I guess if it helps frame the situation in your mind...?
Quote from Jey »
I've been thinking about this and typing bits here and there at work but I have nothing better than "Read what they're saying and point my gun at whoever I feel worse about". That's it. I would need to see some reasoning and see that motivation to find the double-crosser and hope for the best. That seems... so *****ty though. Whoever I feel worse about. That's the best I got.
The more interactivity we have, the better. Not that I've been very good about that myself, but the more questions asked and answered, the closer we get to figuring out who "we feel worse about".
@JeyK: What do you think about Killjoy's assertion that your #6 comes off as excessively nervous? Also, do you think I like or dislike how he responded to my question (about your post #6)? Why/why not?
I disagree I'm excessively nervous, but I was nervous at first and I am dramatic in general, so I don't blame him for making that call.
Ok.
Quote from Jey »
Okay Cantrip, we can play this game. How would you have expected town!JeY and scum!JeY to reply to that question? The newest one you asked, for clarification.
I'm not familiar enough with your meta to expect anything out of town!Jey or scum!Jey, but I would have expected scum to a) respond to BOTH negative assertions (newb card, excessive nervousness), and b) be a bit more defensive, especially in this one-shot environment. Your response felt a little more town, given that you didn't bother with the newb card assertion, were fairly casual and understanding as to why the excessive nervousness was aimed at you, and didn't attack Killjoy back.
Quote from Jey »
Why are you waiting to answer Killjoy?
Because I like playing my cards (and strategies) close to the vest.
Quote from Jey »
I'm not sure who I feel worse about right now. I get better feelings about Cantrip's play so far, for what it's worth.
I disagree that just "X is scummier than Y" is substance. Reasoning helps. WHY do you get better feelings about my play so far?
I think you don't like it, but not in a way that doesn't seem scummy, it just doesn't add too much. He said it's easier for town to do scum than scum to do town, but that should be obvious I think?
Actually, I *did* find it somewhat scummy. I asked a VERY open-ended question ("do you see what I see"), which I think to the average town mindset would ring some alarm bells. He didn't question it, though; instead, he listed two possibly scummy things (playing the newb card, excessive nervousness), then added a caveat. It felt quite possibly like scum thinking they had found an "in" to paint someone scummy (while "following" someone else's lead), but also with a hedge in case the response was poorly received.
New topic (not to say we shouldn't continue the above discussion, too): Which alignment, town or scum, do each of you enjoy playing more? For me, I *love* the challenge of a 3rd party, but out of the two basic alignments, I think I prefer town just a little more. Probably because the victory of sousing out the informed minority when I'm one of the uninformed feels like more of a challenge than being deceitful and fooling the uniformed. But on the flip side, I feel like I have more freedom to be creative when I'm scum, so they're pretty evenly balanced for me.
I don't have time for a full reply right this moment but I do want to mention that I'm bursting at the seems with your 'cards close to the chest' because I'm the exact opposite in general; I hardly ever have anything to hide and typically lay down what I'm thinking when I'm thinking it. Obviously if I have a PR I'd avoid mentioning it until it was necessary to do so, but other than that I don't really set traps or leave fellow town wondering. Just good ol' fashion 'what you said makes you scum for some reason' (because I can never clearly communicate a reason, it's something I know)
Also for your 'new topic' my gut-reaction to your question is scum because there's fewer unknowns; I hate not knowing anything and I often second guess myself. The only thing I didn't know as scum was how people would react, which is my favorite part of playing the game.
I don't have time for a full reply right this moment but I do want to mention that I'm bursting at the seems with your 'cards close to the chest' because I'm the exact opposite in general; I hardly ever have anything to hide and typically lay down what I'm thinking when I'm thinking it. Obviously if I have a PR I'd avoid mentioning it until it was necessary to do so, but other than that I don't really set traps or leave fellow town wondering. Just good ol' fashion 'what you said makes you scum for some reason' (because I can never clearly communicate a reason, it's something I know)
Hmm, interesting. So do you think this makes me more likely to be scum?
Quote from Jey »
Also for your 'new topic' my gut-reaction to your question is scum because there's fewer unknowns; I hate not knowing anything and I often second guess myself. The only thing I didn't know as scum was how people would react, which is my favorite part of playing the game.
Thanks for the response. I'd like to wait for Killjoy to respond before I follow up on it.
I would also like a full reply from you, of course, as time permits.
FOSes preserve the instinct to vote while at the same time not putting any risk on ending the game accidentally. It's not AS telling as votes but we really can't afford votes. I guess in a game this size it doesn't matter THAT much but still. It's something to consider.
Ok, but...like, let's say I FOS'd you in 17 because I didn't feel like you were contributing much (I *did* feel that way). Then this post I un-FOS you because you contributed (I also feel this way, but I definitely need more from you). Either a) I include my reasoning, in which case my suspicion is already on record and can be pointed back to without relying on FOS's, or b) I don't include my reasoning, in which case my FOS is near worthless. Either way, the FOS itself doesn't actually DO anything.
Your suggestion feels like you're trying to suggest something that sounds townie, but in reality doesn't help. There's a chance that this comes from town, but it makes me raise an eyebrow.
The point of the FOSes was to maintain as close to a standard mafia game as I could. Obviously the mechanics of this game will impose restraints on the players, perhaps limiting our ability to read each other. The most obvious of which was the lack of ability to vote. So I sought to rectify that.
Quote from Cantrip »
Quote from Killjoy »
Also. Hm. @Jey/Cantrip: How do you plan to solve this game?
I'll get back to you on that.
I dislike this. The intent of the question was for you to answer immediately, not giving you time to think of what answer I'd find to be 'correct' but instead answering quickly, and therefore likely honestly. You've taken too long now and therefore the answer probably tells me nothing about your alignment, which annoys me.
Anyway, to answer your question Killjoy, I posted that because I was answering your question and explaining how I felt.
Mmm. What about the bit about the games? What was going through your head when going off on that tangent?
Quote from Jey »
Another idea: This game might be flavorless, but that's where I excel; My imagination. Let's add some flavor.
We're 3 robbers going on an elaborate, high-stakes heist and we find that our equipment has been tampered with and collectively rule that someone is planning on double cross us. Now, without any physical evidence whatsoever, have to figure out who the double-crosser is and kill them for justice or whatever. How do we do that? So the double-crosser might take two routes, try to be quiet and see if an innocent is suspicious about the other innocent and jump on that wagon, or they could start the discussion and be the first to point a finger and hopes to sway an innocent with influence. There are many inbetweens this scenario has too.
As an innocent, I need to see who is more motivated to get someone killed than someone who is motivated to find out who is screwing their team over. So, there's the factors of the heist itself and its rewards to consider in this hypothetical but not in this mafia game, so I can't appeal to certain emotions of guilt or greed. Maybe I would provoke reactions and analyze them.
Hm. I kinda like this. You seem to be framing the game in your own reference then using your tools to apply logic to it. It reads as natural. (It also reminds me of a Brady Bunch episode where Jan had trouble with maths, but then when it was reframed in terms of money she was able to do it quickly and awesomely. Sometimes people just need to reframe questions in their own terms to get a handle on them).
Quote from Jey »
I've been thinking about this and typing bits here and there at work but I have nothing better than "Read what they're saying and point my gun at whoever I feel worse about". That's it. I would need to see some reasoning and see that motivation to find the double-crosser and hope for the best. That seems... so *****ty though. Whoever I feel worse about. That's the best I got.
I've found it's easier to find town than scum. Town are trying to solve alignments, trying to figure out the unknown elements of the game. Scum are trying to lynch someone, which takes a few forms. They could be holding back and sitting firmly on the fence so they can come down on whatever side they need to. They could also pocket one of the two town while throwing slime at the other one to try and get the other town to vote with the scum. The former seems closest to what's going on here but I don't have any reads on that front.
And THATS why I look for town.
@Killjoy: Do you think "stream-of-consciousness" posting is more indicative of town or scum? Why?
In a vacuum, town by far. Scum like to filter themselves and that's hard to do while also looking natural while streamposting.
Question for you: In the world where scum!Jey exists, what is her game? How is she trying to win as scum?
Quote from Cantrip »
Actually, I *did* find it somewhat scummy. I asked a VERY open-ended question ("do you see what I see"), which I think to the average town mindset would ring some alarm bells. He didn't question it, though; instead, he listed two possibly scummy things (playing the newb card, excessive nervousness), then added a caveat. It felt quite possibly like scum thinking they had found an "in" to paint someone scummy (while "following" someone else's lead), but also with a hedge in case the response was poorly received.
I disagree that it should have raised alarm bells, since there was something I did see with the post. I thought you saw it too.
Do you disagree with my assessment of it?
Quote from Cantrip »
New topic (not to say we shouldn't continue the above discussion, too): Which alignment, town or scum, do each of you enjoy playing more? For me, I *love* the challenge of a 3rd party, but out of the two basic alignments, I think I prefer town just a little more. Probably because the victory of sousing out the informed minority when I'm one of the uninformed feels like more of a challenge than being deceitful and fooling the uniformed. But on the flip side, I feel like I have more freedom to be creative when I'm scum, so they're pretty evenly balanced for me.
Town more than scum, third party probably most (though I've had one chance at it). Town tries to solve puzzles while scum has a team to not let down.
I currently think it's Cantrip. Jey's posts are just so pure.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Okay! Got to work super early, got some time for the full reply~
I'd also like to point out that my phone autocorrects "Cantrip" to "can't rip" and I died of laughter twice now because of it.
Are you talking about #12, or a different post? If 12, I'd see over-anxiousness and being excessively eager to jump on scumtells as behavior trending toward wanting a vote (any vote). But I disagree that that's the only avenue to finding sucm. I'm not entirely sure that I want to list all my ideas, as I'd rather not map out to the scum how to fool me.
12 and onward. On the contrary, I'd love to map out every possibility scum has to fool us and then dare to see them try it. (Vanilla) Town have nothing to worry about from posting their ideas, because if someone says "If we see this behavior it's bad" and then someone later performs that behavior we can call them out, get a reaction, and determine their intent. I guess maybe the behavior itself isn't a scumtell but everyhting around what happens there can be revealing.
The more interactivity we have, the better. Not that I've been very good about that myself, but the more questions asked and answered, the closer we get to figuring out who "we feel worse about".
Okay, that makes me feel less *****ty about the approach. More things to analyze = more chances to catch scum.
So, first thing: votes should probably be FOSes instead. It still allows you to 'vote' as you normally would (allowing the analysis that goes along with that) and doesn't actually lead to anyone's quick and untimely death.
My strategy is just keep talking because someone will say something telling at some point. How do you know it's telling? Look at the intent of the post.
I'm not familiar enough with your meta to expect anything out of town!Jey or scum!Jey, but I would have expected scum to a) respond to BOTH negative assertions (newb card, excessive nervousness), and b) be a bit more defensive, especially in this one-shot environment. Your response felt a little more town, given that you didn't bother with the newb card assertion, were fairly casual and understanding as to why the excessive nervousness was aimed at you, and didn't attack Killjoy back.
That was what I wanted actually, more generic!Scum generic!Town since I agree you won't really know my specific meta! But you only answered half of my question. I mean you half did the other answer I guess but I'd like a more 'generic town would do {this}' than pointing out what I did specifically and vaguely hinting it was more town.
Actually, I *did* find it somewhat scummy. I asked a VERY open-ended question ("do you see what I see"), which I think to the average town mindset would ring some alarm bells. He didn't question it, though; instead, he listed two possibly scummy things (playing the newb card, excessive nervousness), then added a caveat. It felt quite possibly like scum thinking they had found an "in" to paint someone scummy (while "following" someone else's lead), but also with a hedge in case the response was poorly received.
...Oh, I see what you mean here. Interesting. I'll have to think about this one.
I dislike this. The intent of the question was for you to answer immediately, not giving you time to think of what answer I'd find to be 'correct' but instead answering quickly, and therefore likely honestly. You've taken too long now and therefore the answer probably tells me nothing about your alignment, which annoys me.
Yeah it really seems like Cantrip has been setting things up to happen in a very specific order.
Mmm. What about the bit about the games? What was going through your head when going off on that tangent?
My brain was going into self-deprecation overdrive. "You can't do this and here's why" and I happened to be in the middle of writing a post, so I bled onto the page.
I've found it's easier to find town than scum. Town are trying to solve alignments, trying to figure out the unknown elements of the game. Scum are trying to lynch someone, which takes a few forms. They could be holding back and sitting firmly on the fence so they can come down on whatever side they need to. They could also pocket one of the two town while throwing slime at the other one to try and get the other town to vote with the scum. The former seems closest to what's going on here but I don't have any reads on that front.
And THATS why I look for town.
Generally you should be trying to find scum, lynch 'em and we win, but I can't disagree that getting points of reference is a good idea. I have some reads though, after sleeping on it.
I disagree that it should have raised alarm bells, since there was something I did see with the post. I thought you saw it too.
Do you disagree with my assessment of it?
The alarm bells weren't too loud with me but I remember when I first read that question I raised an eyebrow; not becuase it was directed at me, but because it was so vague. When Cantrip explained his 'trap' (sorry if thats exaggeratiing) I saw why. I think you should've been a little uneasy but I think you're entirely honest here.
---
Okay. I have a big picture now. I've been feeling pretty bad about Cantrip despite his solid playing all game but from what I could read he seemed like he was definitely playing for town, and Killjoy wasn't really playing at all, but I didn't feel bad about him. Why was that? What was the dissonance here?
So, I said Cantrip's play felt better. But now i'm realizing there's a problem here. His play feels really good for a Day 1 in a traditional mafia game, but here we only have one day. We're instantly in MyLo, and I think Cantrip's close-to-the-chest play is good for early game but not for a game-winning play. It dawned on me that his play is pretty genius in a scum perspective; it's typical from what you'd expect from a D1 towny but it also lets you not reveal too much unless you need to or it's convenient. In MyLo, there's no more secrets. The only secret left is the last scum.
What Cantrip is doing isn't as condusive to the town as it should be; it's great if he knows he's town but the rest of us would love to know that too, and you aren't giving it to us. We want to know your alignment, Cantrip. That fact that I'm not comfortable about it by now is a bad sign.
As for Killjoy, re-reading him gives me the same feeling I have been experiencing all game. There's two big unknowns, one bullet in the chamber, sending it the wrong way is game over. I feel like we have a lot in common: niether of us know how to skin this cat and he's throwing out whatever he can to identify who it is.
Meanwhile Cantrip knows exactly what he's doing because if he's scum, there's nothing to solve. Just push a vote anywhere.
---
I need to see your reaction Cantrip. I shouldn't second guess myself, but I need to see it for myself.
No content here; but my upcoming schedule is important to note and is as follows:
-Leaving work within the next 10 or so minutes, where I will be driving around, having dinner with mom, and packing for my flight tomorrow morning. I'll be around really late, and ideally this is the best window for my activity.
-Tomorrow I will be flying/driving most of the day with some moments of solace to check this thread on my phone
-Saturday I will not be able to check unless it's first thing in the morning EST.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I'm so sorry. I know we're nearing the end, but I was painting (still!) and moving all day yesterday and more today. I don't know how much availability I'll have tomorrow, so I guess it's time to get some stuff sorted out.
The point of the FOSes was to maintain as close to a standard mafia game as I could. Obviously the mechanics of this game will impose restraints on the players, perhaps limiting our ability to read each other. The most obvious of which was the lack of ability to vote. So I sought to rectify that.
Ok, and like I said, I can see that coming from town, but it seems more likely to come from scum trying to look helpful.
Quote from Killjoy »
Quote from Cantrip »
Quote from Killjoy »
Also. Hm. @Jey/Cantrip: How do you plan to solve this game?
I'll get back to you on that.
I dislike this. The intent of the question was for you to answer immediately, not giving you time to think of what answer I'd find to be 'correct' but instead answering quickly, and therefore likely honestly. You've taken too long now and therefore the answer probably tells me nothing about your alignment, which annoys me.
I can understand that, and if you're town, I apologize. The way I planned to solve was to set up opportunities that I thought scum might find enticing (but not obviously so) and see how each of you responded to those. It's hard to state that without putting scum on their guard.
Quote from Killjoy »
Hm. I kinda like this. You seem to be framing the game in your own reference then using your tools to apply logic to it. It reads as natural. (It also reminds me of a Brady Bunch episode where Jan had trouble with maths, but then when it was reframed in terms of money she was able to do it quickly and awesomely. Sometimes people just need to reframe questions in their own terms to get a handle on them).
Do you find this alignment indicative, or do you just like it?
@Killjoy: Do you think "stream-of-consciousness" posting is more indicative of town or scum? Why?
In a vacuum, town by far. Scum like to filter themselves and that's hard to do while also looking natural while streamposting.
So this was one of my situations (I wouldn't go so far as to call them "traps"; they're more like "mindset checks"). I led off with a line that hinted at Jey's behavior being more scummy than townie ("A slew of sins *could* be hidden behind the defense of 'stream-of-consciousness posting'."), then asked your opinion to see if you parroted my lead-in sentiment or pushed in the other direction. I would have expected scum!Killjoy to parrot (probably lightly and/or with a caveat). I mostly like your response, but I note that there's a caveat ("in a vacuum"). If you're scum, I'd like to know post-game if it was obvious what I was doing.
Quote from Killjoy »
Question for you: In the world where scum!Jey exists, what is her game? How is she trying to win as scum?
If she's scum, I see her going the "who, little ol' me" innocence route, with newb card plays, general spewing, and the kind of pure posting that I'm seeing. Pure posting is hard to fake, though.
Quote from Killjoy »
Quote from Cantrip »
Actually, I *did* find it somewhat scummy. I asked a VERY open-ended question ("do you see what I see"), which I think to the average town mindset would ring some alarm bells. He didn't question it, though; instead, he listed two possibly scummy things (playing the newb card, excessive nervousness), then added a caveat. It felt quite possibly like scum thinking they had found an "in" to paint someone scummy (while "following" someone else's lead), but also with a hedge in case the response was poorly received.
I disagree that it should have raised alarm bells, since there was something I did see with the post. I thought you saw it too.
Do you disagree with my assessment of it?
Actually, I saw some fearmongering ("oh gosh, it's going to be so easy to lose/this is going to be so hard").
Quote from Killjoy »
Quote from Cantrip »
New topic (not to say we shouldn't continue the above discussion, too): Which alignment, town or scum, do each of you enjoy playing more? For me, I *love* the challenge of a 3rd party, but out of the two basic alignments, I think I prefer town just a little more. Probably because the victory of sousing out the informed minority when I'm one of the uninformed feels like more of a challenge than being deceitful and fooling the uniformed. But on the flip side, I feel like I have more freedom to be creative when I'm scum, so they're pretty evenly balanced for me.
Town more than scum, third party probably most (though I've had one chance at it). Town tries to solve puzzles while scum has a team to not let down.
This was another mindset check, because I was very much getting a "having fun" vibe from Jey and a "not having fun" vibe from you. It's not a strong indicator for me, but I think this makes it a little more likely you're scum.
To Both of You: I welcome the opportunity to have this filter applied to my own play to see how well it may gauge alignment in general; do you feel I've been excited about this game or more lackluster?
Are you talking about #12, or a different post? If 12, I'd see over-anxiousness and being excessively eager to jump on scumtells as behavior trending toward wanting a vote (any vote). But I disagree that that's the only avenue to finding sucm. I'm not entirely sure that I want to list all my ideas, as I'd rather not map out to the scum how to fool me.
12 and onward. On the contrary, I'd love to map out every possibility scum has to fool us and then dare to see them try it. (Vanilla) Town have nothing to worry about from posting their ideas, because if someone says "If we see this behavior it's bad" and then someone later performs that behavior we can call them out, get a reaction, and determine their intent. I guess maybe the behavior itself isn't a scumtell but everyhting around what happens there can be revealing.
Except for ideas that are dependent on reactions unfiltered by foreknowledge.
Wut? Like, ok, I'm all about the flavor, too, but I can't really see how this is helpful. I guess if it helps frame the situation in your mind...?
...Are you not worried about solving the game at all? Because that's what this sounds like to me.
Seriously? Where do you see "me not worried about solving the game" here? I could set up a hundred "flavor" variations, but it still boils down to the same thing: three entities, two teams, two objectives. I just didn't see how restating it helped (still don't).
So, first thing: votes should probably be FOSes instead. It still allows you to 'vote' as you normally would (allowing the analysis that goes along with that) and doesn't actually lead to anyone's quick and untimely death.
My strategy is just keep talking because someone will say something telling at some point. How do you know it's telling? Look at the intent of the post.
Thank you for doing that. The reason that I asked is that I didn't see anything in those posts (any of his early ones) that accomplished anything. There was plenty of blanket statements to go slow, but he didn't seem like he was trying to solve anything. So "slow and steady" I agree with; "wins the race" I questioned.
I'm not familiar enough with your meta to expect anything out of town!Jey or scum!Jey, but I would have expected scum to a) respond to BOTH negative assertions (newb card, excessive nervousness), and b) be a bit more defensive, especially in this one-shot environment. Your response felt a little more town, given that you didn't bother with the newb card assertion, were fairly casual and understanding as to why the excessive nervousness was aimed at you, and didn't attack Killjoy back.
That was what I wanted actually, more generic!Scum generic!Town since I agree you won't really know my specific meta! But you only answered half of my question. I mean you half did the other answer I guess but I'd like a more 'generic town would do {this}' than pointing out what I did specifically and vaguely hinting it was more town.
I didn't think I was "vaguely" hinting. I felt it was given that I would expect generic!Town to do things similar to what you did.
Because I like playing my cards (and strategies) close to the vest.
Reading this again makes me as unhappy as last time all over again.
Sorry. This is how I play. I know if I had time, I could dig up similar things I've done in other town games.
Quote from Jey »
Okay. I have a big picture now. I've been feeling pretty bad about Cantrip despite his solid playing all game but from what I could read he seemed like he was definitely playing for town, and Killjoy wasn't really playing at all, but I didn't feel bad about him. Why was that? What was the dissonance here?
I would posit that your lack of feeling bad about Killjoy was in part due to him not doing or saying anything that was alignment indicative (either way) for a good portion of the early game.
Quote from Jey »
So, I said Cantrip's play felt better. But now i'm realizing there's a problem here. His play feels really good for a Day 1 in a traditional mafia game, but here we only have one day. We're instantly in MyLo, and I think Cantrip's close-to-the-chest play is good for early game but not for a game-winning play. It dawned on me that his play is pretty genius in a scum perspective; it's typical from what you'd expect from a D1 towny but it also lets you not reveal too much unless you need to or it's convenient. In MyLo, there's no more secrets. The only secret left is the last scum.
What Cantrip is doing isn't as condusive to the town as it should be; it's great if he knows he's town but the rest of us would love to know that too, and you aren't giving it to us. We want to know your alignment, Cantrip. That fact that I'm not comfortable about it by now is a bad sign.
*shrug* I don't know how to "demonstrate town" other than how I play. Sometimes it gets me town read; sometimes it goes the other way.
Quote from Jey »
As for Killjoy, re-reading him gives me the same feeling I have been experiencing all game. There's two big unknowns, one bullet in the chamber, sending it the wrong way is game over. I feel like we have a lot in common: niether of us know how to skin this cat and he's throwing out whatever he can to identify who it is.
Meanwhile Cantrip knows exactly what he's doing because if he's scum, there's nothing to solve. Just push a vote anywhere.
There's plenty to solve; if you're town, you seem to be assuming a) that your way is the best way, and b) because Killjoy seems to be following your path, he's more likely to share your alignment.
So here's where I stand. My teammates have felt for a while that Killjoy is scum, and I pretty much agree. Jey's posts feel innocent in a way that would be hard to fake. Not having as many games under her belt makes me think it's even less likely that she's scum. This recent self-evaluation gives me a little pause, as there's a bit of a chance that she started the game seeing Killjoy as the easier target, but shifted once my participation became more spotty. However, I really don't think so.
On the Killjoy front, his response about stream of consciousness was unexpected, but maybe I was too obvious there. Most of his other responses I haven't liked (including the Brady Bunch response, which felt like a pocket attempt). His early game was a lot of no-content posts. His "how do you attempt to solve this game" question felt like scum fishing for strategies to guard against. His play doesn't feel invested or excited. I'm very much at the point where I think he's the scum.
I should have the opportunity to post again ~6 hours from now (and possibly between now and then), but I unfortunately can't guarantee that I'll be able to after that. So I will likely be voting Killjoy later tonight, and if I lose to Jey, it'll be because she's played a fantastic innocent.
@Jey: If this just makes you feel more like I'm scum, vote me and let's be done with it, but I welcome additional conversation if possible.
Cantrip ;_; you're making this harder than it needs to be x_x
Okay well I i found out that the wedding isn't until tomorrow evening so I have plenty of time to make sure I'm sure.
I read your post and I need to re-read the game when I'm not accommodating a drunk girlfriend.
I'm still inclined to vote Cantrip :/ one last post from a killjoy and I will force myself to vote. I find scum through reactions best, this is the quintessential reaction.
Cantrip ;_; you're making this harder than it needs to be x_x
What do you mean?
I was hoping Killjoy would have responded.
I'm actually on for a little bit, if either of you are inclined to realtime. Ask me all the questions.
@Jey: If you're town, you ought to trust your first instincts. Me doing towny things, even if you think they're not as useful/applicable in a 1-day game, are reflective of me being town. Killjoy not doing anything may not be explicitly scummy in a regular game, but in a 1-day game, it's very questionable. I'm *still* not seeing much effort from him.
Actually @Jey,, how many games have you played where you were scum? How many did you win? Did you make it to endgame in any of them?
@Killjoy: Scum!you just has to sit there and wait for Jey to vote me, so I don't expect you to post. This is me calling you out. Town would post, so regardless of your alignment, get back in here and interact.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I can understand that, and if you're town, I apologize. The way I planned to solve was to set up opportunities that I thought scum might find enticing (but not obviously so) and see how each of you responded to those. It's hard to state that without putting scum on their guard.
Your plan was to set traps? How can you be sure it's scum jumping on it and not town?
Quote from Cantrip »
Do you find this alignment indicative, or do you just like it?
It's AI I think. She's putting it into a new frame of reference to understand it better for the purpose of solving the game.
Quote from Cantrip »
So this was one of my situations (I wouldn't go so far as to call them "traps"; they're more like "mindset checks"). I led off with a line that hinted at Jey's behavior being more scummy than townie ("A slew of sins *could* be hidden behind the defense of 'stream-of-consciousness posting'."), then asked your opinion to see if you parroted my lead-in sentiment or pushed in the other direction. I would have expected scum!Killjoy to parrot (probably lightly and/or with a caveat). I mostly like your response, but I note that there's a caveat ("in a vacuum"). If you're scum, I'd like to know post-game if it was obvious what I was doing.
They are traps. Not just calling them what they are is just trying to soften the language to make it seem less malevolent.
I'm recalling you saying you were too obvious in this question about streamposting but I can't find it. Blah.
Quote from Cantrip »
If she's scum, I see her going the "who, little ol' me" innocence route, with newb card plays, general spewing, and the kind of pure posting that I'm seeing. Pure posting is hard to fake, though.
I agree. And that's why I think you're scum, because she's likely town.
Quote from Cantrip »
Actually, I saw some fearmongering ("oh gosh, it's going to be so easy to lose/this is going to be so hard").
Ok.
Quote from Cantrip »
This was another mindset check, because I was very much getting a "having fun" vibe from Jey and a "not having fun" vibe from you. It's not a strong indicator for me, but I think this makes it a little more likely you're scum.
To Both of You: I welcome the opportunity to have this filter applied to my own play to see how well it may gauge alignment in general; do you feel I've been excited about this game or more lackluster?
I usually get a 'having fun' vibe from you, but you can never post because free time.
Quote from Cantrip »
@Killjoy: Convince me you're town.
I'm... not gonna play that game with you.I don't think you'd ask this if you were town. You'd still be doing things to try to solve my slot.
@Killjoy: Scum!you just has to sit there and wait for Jey to vote me, so I don't expect you to post. This is me calling you out. Town would post, so regardless of your alignment, get back in here and interact.
I'm sorry I didn't get back sooner, but I was at D&D. If you're still up I'm willing to talk.
I kinda wanna wait to vote to see if I just lose because I was wrong about Jey, but I'll vote when I wake up tomorrow I think.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
"Someone frayed two of the three ropes, it looks like. If we had gone out like this, only one of us was gonna make it out with the prize."
Two heads perked up, both looking a little disgruntled. It was hard to tell who was upset that someone discovered the nefarious act and who was horrified that there was a chance of dying.
"Someone here must be trying to double cross us."
Everyone exchanged equal glances. The perpetrator wasn't immediately obvious; so now there had to be a round two.
"anyone else gonna say anything?" The older man continued.
"I don't know - they couldn't have possibly been already bad? We just didn't notice before? This is a solid team..." a girl interjected.
"Nope, everything was perfect when I grabbed it" the younger man said. The older man raised an eyebrow.
They argued for a little bit, the girl tried to add her wisdom whenever she could but it could only end one way: the two gentlemen pulled their guns on each other. More silence.
"... Please don't make me choose like this, guys, come on."
"it's clear your innocent here, so you decide, who is it?" The older man said.
They gave their final reasoning. The girl seems to shake, but pointed... At the younger man.
He dropped his guard for half a second in disgust which was the perfect opportunity for the older man to fire. An experienced gunslinger, pierced straight through the heart. The younger man fell over dead.
Behind the girl's back, she uncrossed her fingers, and smiled a little.
Players
JeyK (Team Team Team)
Cantripmancer (Team Cassandra)
Killjoy (Feral Octegenarians)
Game Rules
Role PMs are going out now. Everyone please confirm by PM. The games will start once everyone has confirmed.
Everyone has confirmed, all games are live now.
Deadline is 2100 GMT on Saturday 23rd June.
This should be an interesting game.
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Hi everyone! Time to activate my superpower where I catch scum early D1 and then nobody listens to me and I make forty million angry posts in combination of complaining of whining (and whining and complaining) and then I quit mafia again after the game is over!
I don't know what I'm doing. I had a post or something but I erased it. I wanna solve this game by seeing a good amount of activity and feeling it out.
So who's scum ujelly
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What did your post say that you erased?
_was_was in this game (I love how i default to underscores now, thanks slack/discord) I would be really torn because it's my signature thing.The post was just fluff. I thought I was asking questions but it was all pointless. I'll be honest I'm terrified because there's only one death and then win or lose Need to make this seem like not as much as a coin flip as possible but then I'm also scared I'll never get over that notion and further still the fear itself will keep me from moving on... vicious cycle style.
For example I was convinced of scum on D1 of Wheat's Katawa Shoujo game but it took me until N3 to work up the courage to use my vigshot.
Then next game (Majora's mask I think) I was given a vig shot and felt confident after my last performance, shot way too soon and blew someone up that I definitely should've known better was town.
Unless my intuition strikes again hard I might not vote until the very end.
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Feel free to talk a lot. I like to but I can't talk in a vacuum (and not just because there's no air)
I'm leaving shortly and will be absent the (most of) rest of the night but I'll have a good chunk of time tomorrow to contribute, and more importantly read, as much as possible.
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The Azrael/KJ/Kpaca team is called "Feral Octegenarians".
I have been asked about mentioning the other games, so I'm again going to defer to MafiaScum:
So basically you may comment on public, mod confirmed information in the other games but you may not attempt to communicate with another game or publically influence it.
So what can we talk about? What I think we need to do is look for someone who's clearly motivated to try and just get a vote to happen rather than figure out who the right person to vote is. The scum instantly win as soon as a towny votes someone anyone who isn't them and they have a little udner a week to get that done.
How can we protect ourselves from the wool over our eyes and spot that kind of behavior? What are some obvious tells of someone forcing a vote instead of scumhunting? I feel like I've learned almost nothing in the 5 times I've played this game
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We'll see, but that's what my schedule will look like.
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/wolfyPop-In
-takes a nap on the recliner-
-wakes up-
How's the weather over in your neck of the woods, Killjoy?
On topic. I feel like I could keep coming up with things to say but like you pointed out Killjoy talking in a vacuum is going to be me forcing posts at a certain point. I think I started a halfway-decent conversation, and if you disagree, feel free to start a better one.
The only thing worse than a vacuum is a double vacuum adjacent to a black hole
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Initial Thoughts:
I'm amused that I'm playing a game with KJ and JK.
@Jey:
• Have you really only played 5 games?
• Trying to decide whether your exuberance is excited town or nervous scum.
• Not sure what to think of the "had a post or something, it got erased" comment. Why would you mention it like that then not summarize or try to recreate it? That doesn't seem helpful; it feels like you are trying to appear like you were being helpful (even before the game began, yo).
• What do you feel Killjoy has contributed to the game so far?
@KJ:
• What analysis do FOS's actually lend themselves to in a game like this? No flips, no wagons...how are you going to use FOS's to determine anything?
• If Jey really *had* come in and voted one of the two of us in their first post, why would that have made you angry?
• Do you see what I see in Jey's #6?
@Eco: Did you realize that your "Feral Octogenarians" announcement listed KJ as being on that team instead of Iso?
-I had to actually look up exuberance for a precise definition but it's just how I play.
-Another note on my playstyle is 'stream of consciousness', I just fast-finger what I'm thinking. I rarely delete stuff but when I do you can be assured it's absolute garbage. If I had stuff I could actually summarize there you definitely wouldn't have needed to ask about it; it would've been there. To this day I'm still trying to figure out how to catch scum amongst two people with zero gamestate information to go from (wagons, flips, etc).
-...I read through his posts and honestly that's a good question. Only thing I've gathered is he believes slow and steady will win the race.
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Deja vu on KJ/JK. That definitely happened... last game I was in? oh well.
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:thinking:
(I'm really upset that's not an emote here wtf)
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My strategy is just keep talking because someone will say something telling at some point. How do you know it's telling? Look at the intent of the post.
Like, I'm looking at your initial post where you lay out your ineptitude at mafia, and I'm asking myself why.
Actually, I'll ask you. Why did you make that post? (post 6)
Talking theory with us is GERNERALLY gonna be useless in a game of unknown alignments, so for 2 of us we won't be able to trust it.That said, I don't have an alternative.
FOSes preserve the instinct to vote while at the same time not putting any risk on ending the game accidentally. It's not AS telling as votes but we really can't afford votes. I guess in a game this size it doesn't matter THAT much but still. It's something to consider.
If Jey had come in with a vote on one of us, I would have been mad because it would either A) End the game if you're scum, B) lead to the stupid endgame where scum and town are crossvoting and one person is confirmed.
A is bad for obvious reasons. B is bad because it's not a game anymore. It's just a slapfight between the two voters about why the other is scum and its just... less fun. Mafia is a social game and this eliminates part of that.
As far as #6 goes... I see a few things. Newb card despite having played 7 games plus having a chat with experianced players to help with her reads if she needs. Which makes her nervousness a little excessive. I'd like to explore a bit more though because I would prefer a town read on one slot to a scum read. Its harder for scum to do town things than it is town to do scum things.
Also. Hm. @Jey/Cantrip: How do you plan to solve this game?
So why mention it?
Where do you see that?
Ok, but...like, let's say I FOS'd you in 17 because I didn't feel like you were contributing much (I *did* feel that way). Then this post I un-FOS you because you contributed (I also feel this way, but I definitely need more from you). Either a) I include my reasoning, in which case my suspicion is already on record and can be pointed back to without relying on FOS's, or b) I don't include my reasoning, in which case my FOS is near worthless. Either way, the FOS itself doesn't actually DO anything.
Your suggestion feels like you're trying to suggest something that sounds townie, but in reality doesn't help. There's a chance that this comes from town, but it makes me raise an eyebrow.
I like this response.
I'll come back to this.
I'll get back to you on that.
@JeyK: What do you think about Killjoy's assertion that your #6 comes off as excessively nervous? Also, do you think I like or dislike how he responded to my question (about your post #6)? Why/why not?
Anyway, to answer your question Killjoy, I posted that because I was answering your question and explaining how I felt.
So my first attempt at this nonsense was trying to point out how scum would play in hopes they get really self conscious and out themselves or whatever. I feel like I could easily call that out. Nobody wanted to talk to me though. Whatever.
Another idea: This game might be flavorless, but that's where I excel; My imagination. Let's add some flavor.
We're 3 robbers going on an elaborate, high-stakes heist and we find that our equipment has been tampered with and collectively rule that someone is planning on double cross us. Now, without any physical evidence whatsoever, have to figure out who the double-crosser is and kill them for justice or whatever. How do we do that? So the double-crosser might take two routes, try to be quiet and see if an innocent is suspicious about the other innocent and jump on that wagon, or they could start the discussion and be the first to point a finger and hopes to sway an innocent with influence. There are many inbetweens this scenario has too.
As an innocent, I need to see who is more motivated to get someone killed than someone who is motivated to find out who is screwing their team over. So, there's the factors of the heist itself and its rewards to consider in this hypothetical but not in this mafia game, so I can't appeal to certain emotions of guilt or greed. Maybe I would provoke reactions and analyze them.
...
I've been thinking about this and typing bits here and there at work but I have nothing better than "Read what they're saying and point my gun at whoever I feel worse about". That's it. I would need to see some reasoning and see that motivation to find the double-crosser and hope for the best. That seems... so *****ty though. Whoever I feel worse about. That's the best I got.
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Looks like Cantrip has been busy while I've been ticking away Let's see what I can do for you here.
Nope. I played here a long time ago, disappeared for a few years, came back to co-host Iso's game and then I got inspired to play one myself! And then I remembered why I didn't play and disappeared again ...I want to say I'm going to strangle Wheat later for convincing me to play again but I'm actually having a good time in this one.
I just told you why. Pay attention. If you're looking for anything else, then there isn't a why. I mentioned it, and there's no reason for it.
Do I really have to explain this? Is that not the vibe you get from his first few posts?
I disagree I'm excessively nervous, but I was nervous at first and I am dramatic in general, so I don't blame him for making that call.
I think you hate my answer becuase I just assume everyone hates everyhting I say regardless but if you want me to read it again and make a more objective assessment...
Well I read my answer three times and this question another two times and I have no clue. Four times... Yup I'm lost.
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Okay Cantrip, we can play this game. How would you have expected town!JeY and scum!JeY to reply to that question? The newest one you asked, for clarification.
Why are you waiting to answer Killjoy?
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I think I generally agree that FOS doens't really contribute much. I like 'X is scummier than Y', it feels like substance.
On that note...
I'm not sure who I feel worse about right now. I get better feelings about Cantrip's play so far, for what it's worth.
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-sigh-
I don't have the luxury of posting an answer right now, but you can ignore the first question I asked you Cantrip in that case.
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I think you don't like it, but not in a way that doesn't seem scummy, it just doesn't add too much. He said it's easier for town to do scum than scum to do town, but that should be obvious I think?
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Once upon a time I made an insanity wolf meme "Forget edit button | quadruple post that *****" And I use it whenever I get to this point but sadly I'm at work.
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Wut? Like, ok, I'm all about the flavor, too, but I can't really see how this is helpful. I guess if it helps frame the situation in your mind...?
The more interactivity we have, the better. Not that I've been very good about that myself, but the more questions asked and answered, the closer we get to figuring out who "we feel worse about".
A slew of sins *could* be hidden behind the defense of "stream-of-consciousness posting".
@Killjoy: Do you think "stream-of-consciousness" posting is more indicative of town or scum? Why?
Actually, it's not. And yes, I'd like you to point to exactly what in his posts makes his mentality "slow and steady wins the race".
Ok.
I'm not familiar enough with your meta to expect anything out of town!Jey or scum!Jey, but I would have expected scum to a) respond to BOTH negative assertions (newb card, excessive nervousness), and b) be a bit more defensive, especially in this one-shot environment. Your response felt a little more town, given that you didn't bother with the newb card assertion, were fairly casual and understanding as to why the excessive nervousness was aimed at you, and didn't attack Killjoy back.
Because I like playing my cards (and strategies) close to the vest.
I disagree that just "X is scummier than Y" is substance. Reasoning helps. WHY do you get better feelings about my play so far?
Actually, I *did* find it somewhat scummy. I asked a VERY open-ended question ("do you see what I see"), which I think to the average town mindset would ring some alarm bells. He didn't question it, though; instead, he listed two possibly scummy things (playing the newb card, excessive nervousness), then added a caveat. It felt quite possibly like scum thinking they had found an "in" to paint someone scummy (while "following" someone else's lead), but also with a hedge in case the response was poorly received.
New topic (not to say we shouldn't continue the above discussion, too): Which alignment, town or scum, do each of you enjoy playing more? For me, I *love* the challenge of a 3rd party, but out of the two basic alignments, I think I prefer town just a little more. Probably because the victory of sousing out the informed minority when I'm one of the uninformed feels like more of a challenge than being deceitful and fooling the uniformed. But on the flip side, I feel like I have more freedom to be creative when I'm scum, so they're pretty evenly balanced for me.
Also for your 'new topic' my gut-reaction to your question is scum because there's fewer unknowns; I hate not knowing anything and I often second guess myself. The only thing I didn't know as scum was how people would react, which is my favorite part of playing the game.
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Thanks for the response. I'd like to wait for Killjoy to respond before I follow up on it.
I would also like a full reply from you, of course, as time permits.
I dislike this. The intent of the question was for you to answer immediately, not giving you time to think of what answer I'd find to be 'correct' but instead answering quickly, and therefore likely honestly. You've taken too long now and therefore the answer probably tells me nothing about your alignment, which annoys me.
Mmm. What about the bit about the games? What was going through your head when going off on that tangent?
Hm. I kinda like this. You seem to be framing the game in your own reference then using your tools to apply logic to it. It reads as natural. (It also reminds me of a Brady Bunch episode where Jan had trouble with maths, but then when it was reframed in terms of money she was able to do it quickly and awesomely. Sometimes people just need to reframe questions in their own terms to get a handle on them).
I've found it's easier to find town than scum. Town are trying to solve alignments, trying to figure out the unknown elements of the game. Scum are trying to lynch someone, which takes a few forms. They could be holding back and sitting firmly on the fence so they can come down on whatever side they need to. They could also pocket one of the two town while throwing slime at the other one to try and get the other town to vote with the scum. The former seems closest to what's going on here but I don't have any reads on that front.
And THATS why I look for town.
In a vacuum, town by far. Scum like to filter themselves and that's hard to do while also looking natural while streamposting.
Question for you: In the world where scum!Jey exists, what is her game? How is she trying to win as scum?
I disagree that it should have raised alarm bells, since there was something I did see with the post. I thought you saw it too.
Do you disagree with my assessment of it?
Town more than scum, third party probably most (though I've had one chance at it). Town tries to solve puzzles while scum has a team to not let down.
I currently think it's Cantrip. Jey's posts are just so pure.
I'd also like to point out that my phone autocorrects "Cantrip" to "can't rip" and I died of laughter twice now because of it.
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12 and onward. On the contrary, I'd love to map out every possibility scum has to fool us and then dare to see them try it. (Vanilla) Town have nothing to worry about from posting their ideas, because if someone says "If we see this behavior it's bad" and then someone later performs that behavior we can call them out, get a reaction, and determine their intent. I guess maybe the behavior itself isn't a scumtell but everyhting around what happens there can be revealing.
...Are you not worried about solving the game at all? Because that's what this sounds like to me.
Okay, that makes me feel less *****ty about the approach. More things to analyze = more chances to catch scum.
I mean, my consciousness is all right there for you to sift through. Knock yourself out.
I can't believe I'm about to reply with thigns I didn't write:
Ok.
That was what I wanted actually, more generic!Scum generic!Town since I agree you won't really know my specific meta! But you only answered half of my question. I mean you half did the other answer I guess but I'd like a more 'generic town would do {this}' than pointing out what I did specifically and vaguely hinting it was more town.
Reading this again makes me as unhappy as last time all over again.
I feel like you're trying to accomplish more and Killjoy is kinda coasty, but the more I read the worse I feel.
...Oh, I see what you mean here. Interesting. I'll have to think about this one.
-snip-
Not In a vacuum. Something is dawning on me though.
Consider it done!
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So I thought more about Cantrip's 'playing better' and Killjoy's 'coasty-ness' and re-read.
...but, Killjoy posted. That first.
Yeah it really seems like Cantrip has been setting things up to happen in a very specific order.
My brain was going into self-deprecation overdrive. "You can't do this and here's why" and I happened to be in the middle of writing a post, so I bled onto the page.
Generally you should be trying to find scum, lynch 'em and we win, but I can't disagree that getting points of reference is a good idea. I have some reads though, after sleeping on it.
The alarm bells weren't too loud with me but I remember when I first read that question I raised an eyebrow; not becuase it was directed at me, but because it was so vague. When Cantrip explained his 'trap' (sorry if thats exaggeratiing) I saw why. I think you should've been a little uneasy but I think you're entirely honest here.
---
Okay. I have a big picture now. I've been feeling pretty bad about Cantrip despite his solid playing all game but from what I could read he seemed like he was definitely playing for town, and Killjoy wasn't really playing at all, but I didn't feel bad about him. Why was that? What was the dissonance here?
So, I said Cantrip's play felt better. But now i'm realizing there's a problem here. His play feels really good for a Day 1 in a traditional mafia game, but here we only have one day. We're instantly in MyLo, and I think Cantrip's close-to-the-chest play is good for early game but not for a game-winning play. It dawned on me that his play is pretty genius in a scum perspective; it's typical from what you'd expect from a D1 towny but it also lets you not reveal too much unless you need to or it's convenient. In MyLo, there's no more secrets. The only secret left is the last scum.
What Cantrip is doing isn't as condusive to the town as it should be; it's great if he knows he's town but the rest of us would love to know that too, and you aren't giving it to us. We want to know your alignment, Cantrip. That fact that I'm not comfortable about it by now is a bad sign.
As for Killjoy, re-reading him gives me the same feeling I have been experiencing all game. There's two big unknowns, one bullet in the chamber, sending it the wrong way is game over. I feel like we have a lot in common: niether of us know how to skin this cat and he's throwing out whatever he can to identify who it is.
Meanwhile Cantrip knows exactly what he's doing because if he's scum, there's nothing to solve. Just push a vote anywhere.
---
I need to see your reaction Cantrip. I shouldn't second guess myself, but I need to see it for myself.
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-Leaving work within the next 10 or so minutes, where I will be driving around, having dinner with mom, and packing for my flight tomorrow morning. I'll be around really late, and ideally this is the best window for my activity.
-Tomorrow I will be flying/driving most of the day with some moments of solace to check this thread on my phone
-Saturday I will not be able to check unless it's first thing in the morning EST.
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Last time I refresh before I'm phone-only for the forseeable future.
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will fullpost tomorrow though. Work was exhausting. I can answer individual questions though. Just nothing involving quoting.
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I got nothing really to ask you, Killjoy. There's nothing much left to say beyond my last full post, until there's replies
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Ok, and like I said, I can see that coming from town, but it seems more likely to come from scum trying to look helpful.
I can understand that, and if you're town, I apologize. The way I planned to solve was to set up opportunities that I thought scum might find enticing (but not obviously so) and see how each of you responded to those. It's hard to state that without putting scum on their guard.
Do you find this alignment indicative, or do you just like it?
So this was one of my situations (I wouldn't go so far as to call them "traps"; they're more like "mindset checks"). I led off with a line that hinted at Jey's behavior being more scummy than townie ("A slew of sins *could* be hidden behind the defense of 'stream-of-consciousness posting'."), then asked your opinion to see if you parroted my lead-in sentiment or pushed in the other direction. I would have expected scum!Killjoy to parrot (probably lightly and/or with a caveat). I mostly like your response, but I note that there's a caveat ("in a vacuum"). If you're scum, I'd like to know post-game if it was obvious what I was doing.
If she's scum, I see her going the "who, little ol' me" innocence route, with newb card plays, general spewing, and the kind of pure posting that I'm seeing. Pure posting is hard to fake, though.
Actually, I saw some fearmongering ("oh gosh, it's going to be so easy to lose/this is going to be so hard").
This was another mindset check, because I was very much getting a "having fun" vibe from Jey and a "not having fun" vibe from you. It's not a strong indicator for me, but I think this makes it a little more likely you're scum.
To Both of You: I welcome the opportunity to have this filter applied to my own play to see how well it may gauge alignment in general; do you feel I've been excited about this game or more lackluster?
Except for ideas that are dependent on reactions unfiltered by foreknowledge.
Seriously? Where do you see "me not worried about solving the game" here? I could set up a hundred "flavor" variations, but it still boils down to the same thing: three entities, two teams, two objectives. I just didn't see how restating it helped (still don't).
FTR, I agree that stream of consciousness is easier to do as town than scum.
Thank you for doing that. The reason that I asked is that I didn't see anything in those posts (any of his early ones) that accomplished anything. There was plenty of blanket statements to go slow, but he didn't seem like he was trying to solve anything. So "slow and steady" I agree with; "wins the race" I questioned.
I didn't think I was "vaguely" hinting. I felt it was given that I would expect generic!Town to do things similar to what you did.
Sorry. This is how I play. I know if I had time, I could dig up similar things I've done in other town games.
I would posit that your lack of feeling bad about Killjoy was in part due to him not doing or saying anything that was alignment indicative (either way) for a good portion of the early game.
*shrug* I don't know how to "demonstrate town" other than how I play. Sometimes it gets me town read; sometimes it goes the other way.
There's plenty to solve; if you're town, you seem to be assuming a) that your way is the best way, and b) because Killjoy seems to be following your path, he's more likely to share your alignment.
So here's where I stand. My teammates have felt for a while that Killjoy is scum, and I pretty much agree. Jey's posts feel innocent in a way that would be hard to fake. Not having as many games under her belt makes me think it's even less likely that she's scum. This recent self-evaluation gives me a little pause, as there's a bit of a chance that she started the game seeing Killjoy as the easier target, but shifted once my participation became more spotty. However, I really don't think so.
On the Killjoy front, his response about stream of consciousness was unexpected, but maybe I was too obvious there. Most of his other responses I haven't liked (including the Brady Bunch response, which felt like a pocket attempt). His early game was a lot of no-content posts. His "how do you attempt to solve this game" question felt like scum fishing for strategies to guard against. His play doesn't feel invested or excited. I'm very much at the point where I think he's the scum.
I should have the opportunity to post again ~6 hours from now (and possibly between now and then), but I unfortunately can't guarantee that I'll be able to after that. So I will likely be voting Killjoy later tonight, and if I lose to Jey, it'll be because she's played a fantastic innocent.
@Jey: If this just makes you feel more like I'm scum, vote me and let's be done with it, but I welcome additional conversation if possible.
@Killjoy: Convince me you're town.
Okay well I i found out that the wedding isn't until tomorrow evening so I have plenty of time to make sure I'm sure.
I read your post and I need to re-read the game when I'm not accommodating a drunk girlfriend.
I'm still inclined to vote Cantrip :/ one last post from a killjoy and I will force myself to vote. I find scum through reactions best, this is the quintessential reaction.
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I was hoping Killjoy would have responded.
I'm actually on for a little bit, if either of you are inclined to realtime. Ask me all the questions.
@Jey: If you're town, you ought to trust your first instincts. Me doing towny things, even if you think they're not as useful/applicable in a 1-day game, are reflective of me being town. Killjoy not doing anything may not be explicitly scummy in a regular game, but in a 1-day game, it's very questionable. I'm *still* not seeing much effort from him.
Actually @Jey,, how many games have you played where you were scum? How many did you win? Did you make it to endgame in any of them?
@Killjoy: Scum!you just has to sit there and wait for Jey to vote me, so I don't expect you to post. This is me calling you out. Town would post, so regardless of your alignment, get back in here and interact.
Vote Killjoy
I hope I'm right.
Your plan was to set traps? How can you be sure it's scum jumping on it and not town?
It's AI I think. She's putting it into a new frame of reference to understand it better for the purpose of solving the game.
They are traps. Not just calling them what they are is just trying to soften the language to make it seem less malevolent.
I'm recalling you saying you were too obvious in this question about streamposting but I can't find it. Blah.
I agree. And that's why I think you're scum, because she's likely town.
Ok.
I usually get a 'having fun' vibe from you, but you can never post because free time.
I'm... not gonna play that game with you.I don't think you'd ask this if you were town. You'd still be doing things to try to solve my slot.
I'm sorry I didn't get back sooner, but I was at D&D. If you're still up I'm willing to talk.
I kinda wanna wait to vote to see if I just lose because I was wrong about Jey, but I'll vote when I wake up tomorrow I think.
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Two heads perked up, both looking a little disgruntled. It was hard to tell who was upset that someone discovered the nefarious act and who was horrified that there was a chance of dying.
"Someone here must be trying to double cross us."
Everyone exchanged equal glances. The perpetrator wasn't immediately obvious; so now there had to be a round two.
"anyone else gonna say anything?" The older man continued.
"I don't know - they couldn't have possibly been already bad? We just didn't notice before? This is a solid team..." a girl interjected.
"Nope, everything was perfect when I grabbed it" the younger man said. The older man raised an eyebrow.
They argued for a little bit, the girl tried to add her wisdom whenever she could but it could only end one way: the two gentlemen pulled their guns on each other. More silence.
"... Please don't make me choose like this, guys, come on."
"it's clear your innocent here, so you decide, who is it?" The older man said.
They gave their final reasoning. The girl seems to shake, but pointed... At the younger man.
He dropped his guard for half a second in disgust which was the perfect opportunity for the older man to fire. An experienced gunslinger, pierced straight through the heart. The younger man fell over dead.
Behind the girl's back, she uncrossed her fingers, and smiled a little.
'All according to plan...'
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