I feel like nobody actually comprehends what I meant by Rod's "catch" being obvious. Like I keep reading posts by people attacking me for it, thinking they know what they're talking about, but they don't.
Maye it wasn't fair of me to assume that everyone would have a basic knowledge of how Masons work - that more people than usual will be forced to make themselves NOT look like they're knowingly aligned, something that is normally a scumtell but in this case could come from either alignment.
So Rod pointing out that DoTA could have been distancing either on purpose (because he's scum/a Mason) or he was pretending to (to look like a Mason) was incredibly obvious to me. Didn't need to be pointed out. Level 0. Basically saying "Dota is either a Mason/scum or pretending to be a Mason" and then made DoTA all paranoid and scumread him for it.
And dbs praising Rod for this "catch" was nonsense, but that's assuming that others are approaching this game the same way that I am. So I apologize for making that assumption.
here's the breakdown (for those who don't know how to read):
1. speculating about the setup isn't the kind of attention masons or scum would like to have. we only have 3 types of roles in the game: masons/scum/vanilla. if you aren't mason or scum, you're vanilla (and locktown).
First off, lol, a lot of your pushes (at least on me) have been because you either incorrectly or straight up didn't read things.
Second, "speculating about the setup isn't something PRs or scum would do?" Really? You think people aren't going to pretend to NOT be a Mason or scum?
Third, you can hunt for Masons or scum or VTs all you want, but do not publicly Masonhunt.
Fourth, I don't even know what to make of you asking if there's somehow more than three mafia. I feel like it's way too out there for your buddies to coach you into saying that and that it would never work, so like ???
Okay so apparently dbs is getting their info from a guide that doesn't apply at all to this site, which means she isn't getting info from scumbuddies, so I kind of want to to lock a townread there.
#473:
I see..? sorta get it, I think.
and ok, how were you approaching this game (as town)? if this playstyle stems from a familiarity with how masons work, then I guess you have an edge over most players here.
#475:
1. seems to be the case, if I read your #473 correctly (you were saying Rodemy's post was strange, not my reaction, but my reaction was reactively strange too?).
2/3. I think masons won't readily draw attention to themselves by speculating, especially in the 1st page - that would be public masonhunting, right? I also don't see scum making that assessment right off the bat, when they didn't have to 'look good' during rvs.
4. mafia could still talk in their chat as well as the mason chat, from my experience. then again, it does make sense we have the numbers for a 3/3/7. but this reminds me of another question: masons usually go in pairs where I come from, so would there be more here (aka the entire 3 mentioned)? nvm though, I'm asking the host... my general understanding of masons might be more different than I thought..
#476:
... doesn't guides apply to all sites? I run by that standard on MAL.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
I'm pretty sure most of the playerlist has had a ton of passive, if not active, Mason experience.
(Which is to say they're aware of what Masons are, how they funciton, how to cover for them, etc.)
I meant approaching the game with the knowledge of how Masons work; it's not at all related to alignment. How I'm approaching the game (as town) is basically asking me what my playstyle is, which I've gone over.
If a game isn't advertised to be bastard, then it isn't bastard. What you see in the OP is what you get.
Generally, you will almost never see mixed Masons here (when a Mason is mafia). If two or more people share a chat without knowing each other's alignments, that is a Neighborhood.
The basic, universal strategy for this setup is that Masons will act like VTs, VTs will act like Masons, and scum will act like VTs but might fakeclaim Mason to bait a counterclaim.
@those saying masons are always town:
the guide says otherwise. and I've actually seen a maf/town mason team - though tbf that setup had few bastard elements. would it be considered bastard on this site, or even possible? afaik the only locktowns possible here are VTs.
/quote]
[quote from="Rodemy »" url="/forums/community-forums/mafia/793343-friends-and-enemies-mafia-day-1-getting-to-know?comment=467"]@sentz can you answer my question in 464?
Did something make you think I wans't going to, or...?
I feel like nobody actually comprehends what I meant by Rod's "catch" being obvious. Like I keep reading posts by people attacking me for it, thinking they know what they're talking about, but they don't.
Maye it wasn't fair of me to assume that everyone would have a basic knowledge of how Masons work - that more people than usual will be forced to make themselves NOT look like they're knowingly aligned, something that is normally a scumtell but in this case could come from either alignment.
So Rod pointing out that DoTA could have been distancing either on purpose (because he's scum/a Mason) or he was pretending to (to look like a Mason) was incredibly obvious to me. Didn't need to be pointed out. Level 0. Basically saying "Dota is either a Mason/scum or pretending to be a Mason" and then made DoTA all paranoid and scumread him for it.
And dbs praising Rod for this "catch" was nonsense, but that's assuming that others are approaching this game the same way that I am. So I apologize for making that assumption.
I called your point obvious because 1) you basically said “DoTA is either town or scum,” and 2) you implied DoTA was specifically either VT or lying, which now that I think of it is another way of saying “DoTA is either town or scum.” And despite this, you made it out to be something suspicious.
I noticed that DoTA asked Sentenza "Who are you?" and decided he was doing it to be polite, but also acknowledged that it could be a double bluff or whatever. But not something I would have questioned him on.
Your point didn't need to be pointed out, is my point.
Rod, at this point, you are borderline deluding yourself into scumreading me. I think you want me to be scum, more than anything else, and I'm pretty over it.
Grow some balls, own your read, and get the support to lynch me if you won't drop it. But goddamn, stop pussyfooting around it for hundreds and hundreds of posts, because every single time you have asked others to weigh in and they don't say what you want to hear, you go hunting for some other kind of "slip" and and we start all over again.
I think my most confident townreads are dbs, Rod, and dan.
Grape and Sentenza are towny, but my paranoia is preventing me from handing over the car keys. Grape is charming and Sentenza is creepily reasonable.
I'm kiiind of grudgingly townreading Killjoy. I think Sentenza and Grape talked about gameflow hinting that we're T/T because the focus hasn't really shifted at all toDay (besides to Ruma, but not nearly as much).
Given the above, Mikey, vezok and DoTA are kinda meh reads now. Iso is nothing. I know Tubba has posted but I'm blanking.
I want to kill Ruma with fire. For someone who likes attention, he sure is quiet as a mouse.
-
In the interest of hedging and wanting to protect my fragile postgame ego, I'll say that if I'm wrong on a top townread, it's probably Rod. I almost lost to him in BBB's endgame.
Rod, at this point, you are borderline deluding yourself into scumreading me. I think you want me to be scum, more than anything else, and I'm pretty over it.
Grow some balls, own your read, and get the support to lynch me if you won't drop it. But goddamn, stop pussyfooting around it for hundreds and hundreds of posts, because every single time you have asked others to weigh in and they don't say what you want to hear, you go hunting for some other kind of "slip" and and we start all over again.
Welp.
I can just leave if you want. Like, sorry im not as amazing at mafia as THE GREAT AND OBVIOUS TOWN VAIMES THE TOWN TOWNSMAN OF TOWNSBURG, TOWNTONVILLE
And you could very well be town. But in my head, im not clearly seeing that. You dont have to prove it to me. I am but one crazy dumb ****in player. Im bottom of the barrel. My points are crazy and my logic is stupid.
Just ignore me toDay and when we get a flip i'll probably have a whole new ****ed up crazy theory toMorrow. It will be fixed soon. I'm getting meds IRL to curb my anxiety and adhd.
At this point i feel like youd be voting me for the bolded reason alone. Tbh, that's pretty scummy, yet you townread me.. why?
Don't answer that. I'm probably piasing you off like 100000% so im just gonna......
@Tubba I'm bad at articulating it but basically if they were t/s I think an alternative other than the one Vaimes was pushing would have popped up. No one but Vaimes, KJ, and Ruma have any sort of widespread suspicion. Suspicion on Vaimes and KJ rose up at the same time and after Vaimes turned his attention to Ruma suspicion grew there. Generally you'd expect other scum to try and arouse suspicion elsewhere but the entire thread (only excluding like Iso, Dan, and kind of tubba) was content scum read one or both of Vaimes and KJ for about 2.5 days of real time. I don't think that happens if they are t/s.
Yeah, basically that.
In the world where both of them are villagers, the placid, plodding pace of the game makes sense, since wolves just have no incentive to really do much here with most of the suspicion falling on a pair that are actually both town, there's no reason to rock the boat, they can always push the other one when the first one flips town, they're not in any real danger, etc.
In the world where one of them is mafia, I'd expect there to be more... juice. More activity. Someone kicking up dust, pushing hard elsewhere.
The reason I'm hesitating to give much weight to that is I think I'm being thrown off by the general pace/length of these games. It might just be a normal feature of them, that they feel like this.
This makes a lot of sense to me. So in this circumstance, what do you think about the players that have votes on Vaimes & KJ?
this is the towniest progression I've ever seen in my entire life.
For those of you who don't get it, 13 reasons why is more accurately "13 reasons why I commited suicide"
after reading what vaimes said sentenza decided there were now 14 reasons why.
It feels like... like the kind of thing you'd say to someone you were having an argument with where you knew you were right about this thing, and it's a question you throw out to get them to say something you can exploit later. Which I guess isn't getting into the why really. I don't know. It just feels like that.
I think a villager would more often than not ask that question in a more direct way? Like, the way Tubba asks it feels like it's setting vezokpiraka up for something. Kind of a trap/gotcha thing, which is definitely a wolf thing more often than not.
It seemed direct enough to me. Your issue is with the phrasing, as opposed to the content, so I'm clear?
@Mikey: You owe me some answers, 424 IIRC
@Vaimes: Don't worry, it was nonsense. I really am failing to understand what the issue with Rodemy is at the moment.
You have no idea how much I detest blank votes, even if you've mentioned the reasons in the past. But whatever, you're voting me cause I'm scummy.
vote:vaimes
@Town
Lynch me, that's fine. I'm used to being the day 1 lynch target ( ) . But going off my general theory, scum are the ones who have the strongest cases day 1, not town. So, look into that. Use this in combination with the information you have for yourself, and you'll be better off. I want to mention the theory is NOT trolliness = town. The theory is that chaos is beneficial for town. The trolliness is simply one method of creating chaos. There are multiple ways to create chaos, that's just the easiest and most likely to get me lynched.
If you feel like lynching me, go ahead.
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I am also called Riku. I tend to prefer being called riku.
I don't really know what you're selling here. You claim that you like attention, that you live off theatrics, yet you haven't done anything remotely attention-grabby. Ironically, it was your empty posting that caught my (and others') attention. You have eleven posts and literally all you've done is RVS'd, fluff'd a bit, and lashed out at naked votes that aren't actually naked at all. You know the reasons. I know the reasons.
I don't really know what you're selling here. You claim that you like attention, that you live off theatrics, yet you haven't done anything remotely attention-grabby. Ironically, it was your empty posting that caught my (and others') attention. You have eleven posts and literally all you've done is RVS'd, fluff'd a bit, and lashed out at naked votes that aren't actually naked at all. You know the reasons. I know the reasons.
I want to mention the theory is NOT trolliness = town. The theory is that chaos is beneficial for town. The trolliness is simply one method of creating chaos. There are multiple ways to create chaos, that's just the easiest and most likely to get me lynched.
Also, fyi, you can't say chaos is beneficial for town and then continue lurking. -That- is an actual disconnect.
I want to mention the theory is NOT trolliness = town. The theory is that chaos is beneficial for town. The trolliness is simply one method of creating chaos. There are multiple ways to create chaos, that's just the easiest and most likely to get me lynched.
Also, fyi, you can't say chaos is beneficial for town and then continue lurking. -That- is an actual disconnect.
I was planning on it, but why would i do what scum tells me to?
Just to be clear, the position you're representing here is, "I caught up and have thoughts on the game, but I'm not going to share them because someone I think is mafia wants me to share them"?
That one was a joke. im on my phone and will post actual thoughts when i get to a charger for my laptop
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I am also called Riku. I tend to prefer being called riku.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
This is not the first time someone refused to do things they should already be doing without being asked, just because I specifically asked them and they scumread me.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Your joke is an actual example of a really, really scummy one.
Like, even when you look at the context, it looks like a really scummy joke. Why would you make that joke with me? Was I supposed to understand it was a joke? When you're voting for me, and probably not happy with me for wanting to kill you?
It's like making an crass joke and then going "just kidding" when you get backlash.
Your joke is an actual example of a really, really scummy one.
Like, even when you look at the context, it looks like a really scummy joke. Why would you make that joke with me? Was I supposed to understand it was a joke? When you're voting for me, and probably not happy with me for wanting to kill you?
It's like making an crass joke and then going "just kidding" when you get backlash.
your point is?
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I am also called Riku. I tend to prefer being called riku.
Maye it wasn't fair of me to assume that everyone would have a basic knowledge of how Masons work - that more people than usual will be forced to make themselves NOT look like they're knowingly aligned, something that is normally a scumtell but in this case could come from either alignment.
So Rod pointing out that DoTA could have been distancing either on purpose (because he's scum/a Mason) or he was pretending to (to look like a Mason) was incredibly obvious to me. Didn't need to be pointed out. Level 0. Basically saying "Dota is either a Mason/scum or pretending to be a Mason" and then made DoTA all paranoid and scumread him for it.
And dbs praising Rod for this "catch" was nonsense, but that's assuming that others are approaching this game the same way that I am. So I apologize for making that assumption.
boop
Vaimes is town.
Second, "speculating about the setup isn't something PRs or scum would do?" Really? You think people aren't going to pretend to NOT be a Mason or scum?
Third, you can hunt for Masons or scum or VTs all you want, but do not publicly Masonhunt.
Fourth, I don't even know what to make of you asking if there's somehow more than three mafia. I feel like it's way too out there for your buddies to coach you into saying that and that it would never work, so like ???
#473:
I see..? sorta get it, I think.
and ok, how were you approaching this game (as town)? if this playstyle stems from a familiarity with how masons work, then I guess you have an edge over most players here.
#475:
1. seems to be the case, if I read your #473 correctly (you were saying Rodemy's post was strange, not my reaction, but my reaction was reactively strange too?).
2/3. I think masons won't readily draw attention to themselves by speculating, especially in the 1st page - that would be public masonhunting, right? I also don't see scum making that assessment right off the bat, when they didn't have to 'look good' during rvs.
4. mafia could still talk in their chat as well as the mason chat, from my experience. then again, it does make sense we have the numbers for a 3/3/7. but this reminds me of another question: masons usually go in pairs where I come from, so would there be more here (aka the entire 3 mentioned)?
nvm though, I'm asking the host...my general understanding of masons might be more different than I thought..#476:
... doesn't guides apply to all sites? I run by that standard on MAL.
Be grateful, always."
(Which is to say they're aware of what Masons are, how they funciton, how to cover for them, etc.)
I meant approaching the game with the knowledge of how Masons work; it's not at all related to alignment. How I'm approaching the game (as town) is basically asking me what my playstyle is, which I've gone over.
Generally, you will almost never see mixed Masons here (when a Mason is mafia). If two or more people share a chat without knowing each other's alignments, that is a Neighborhood.
The basic, universal strategy for this setup is that Masons will act like VTs, VTs will act like Masons, and scum will act like VTs but might fakeclaim Mason to bait a counterclaim.
Kinda. I thought you werr caught up. Sorry
So which is it?
Did you see dotas distancing as obvious?
Or my point?
@all am i correct in thinking he is saying two different things?
Your point didn't need to be pointed out, is my point.
Grow some balls, own your read, and get the support to lynch me if you won't drop it. But goddamn, stop pussyfooting around it for hundreds and hundreds of posts, because every single time you have asked others to weigh in and they don't say what you want to hear, you go hunting for some other kind of "slip" and and we start all over again.
Grape and Sentenza are towny, but my paranoia is preventing me from handing over the car keys. Grape is charming and Sentenza is creepily reasonable.
I'm kiiind of grudgingly townreading Killjoy. I think Sentenza and Grape talked about gameflow hinting that we're T/T because the focus hasn't really shifted at all toDay (besides to Ruma, but not nearly as much).
Given the above, Mikey, vezok and DoTA are kinda meh reads now. Iso is nothing. I know Tubba has posted but I'm blanking.
I want to kill Ruma with fire. For someone who likes attention, he sure is quiet as a mouse.
-
In the interest of hedging and wanting to protect my fragile postgame ego, I'll say that if I'm wrong on a top townread, it's probably Rod. I almost lost to him in BBB's endgame.
Welp.
I can just leave if you want. Like, sorry im not as amazing at mafia as THE GREAT AND OBVIOUS TOWN VAIMES THE TOWN TOWNSMAN OF TOWNSBURG, TOWNTONVILLE
And you could very well be town. But in my head, im not clearly seeing that. You dont have to prove it to me. I am but one crazy dumb ****in player. Im bottom of the barrel. My points are crazy and my logic is stupid.
Just ignore me toDay and when we get a flip i'll probably have a whole new ****ed up crazy theory toMorrow. It will be fixed soon. I'm getting meds IRL to curb my anxiety and adhd.
At this point i feel like youd be voting me for the bolded reason alone. Tbh, that's pretty scummy, yet you townread me.. why?
Don't answer that. I'm probably piasing you off like 100000% so im just gonna......
vote vaimes
Just let it be. Let that vote ait.
Your 13 reasons why meme post....
Im assuming that is just another reason why she is scum. Or... what...
I think you mean well, even if you’re scumreading me, and that’s why I think you’re town.
I’ll let you have your vote in peace.
I get it.
Disregard
This makes a lot of sense to me. So in this circumstance, what do you think about the players that have votes on Vaimes & KJ?
I still don't, share with the class please.
this is the towniest progression I've ever seen in my entire life.
For those of you who don't get it, 13 reasons why is more accurately "13 reasons why I commited suicide"
after reading what vaimes said sentenza decided there were now 14 reasons why.
It seemed direct enough to me. Your issue is with the phrasing, as opposed to the content, so I'm clear?
@Mikey: You owe me some answers, 424 IIRC
@Vaimes: Don't worry, it was nonsense. I really am failing to understand what the issue with Rodemy is at the moment.
Waiting for a votecount to place a vote.
You have no idea how much I detest blank votes, even if you've mentioned the reasons in the past. But whatever, you're voting me cause I'm scummy.
vote:vaimes
@Town
Lynch me, that's fine. I'm used to being the day 1 lynch target ( ) . But going off my general theory, scum are the ones who have the strongest cases day 1, not town. So, look into that. Use this in combination with the information you have for yourself, and you'll be better off. I want to mention the theory is NOT trolliness = town. The theory is that chaos is beneficial for town. The trolliness is simply one method of creating chaos. There are multiple ways to create chaos, that's just the easiest and most likely to get me lynched.
If you feel like lynching me, go ahead.
-_- Or, you know, I just caught up. But sure. Think what you will.
actually, i left a blank vote on you to prove a point *shrugs*
and lol, if i were scum, your argument about me being focused on myself would be counter to me being scum o.O
I was planning on it, but why would i do what scum tells me to?
That is so totally a scum "I'm bluffing and didn't actually read" answer, oh my god.
This is going to turn into a huge NO U so I'm gonna dip until someone else joins us.
Im fairly sure a town member can do something that scum can push as a scum slip.
But I would never refer to something I myself said as a scumslip if I'm town, because it isn't. I would just say that it's being misrepresented.
If you're town, you gain absolutely nothing by withholding your point of view just to spite me. You're just shooting your own team in the foot.
Your joke is an actual example of a really, really scummy one.
On my screen, post 521 is between post 518 and 519.
Weird.
It's like making an crass joke and then going "just kidding" when you get backlash.
your point is?