Yes? Who would seriously give anyone a pass because they they made a silly picture at the start of a game?? That’s like giving someone a pass for a cleverly worded RVS vote or something.
If you want to townread or scumread jokes, go ahead?
You'd be surprised. I've seen people give people early tentitive clears for things I don't quite understand before. Like I said, maybe there's data on memes being linked to particular mindsets. IDK. I haven't seen that data.
Again... the fact that you seem unable to see this from my perspective is suspect here. The only reason it's supposedly a joke is because you say it is a joke, not any other. It's not this super obvious joke like you say and the fact that you continuously try to dismiss it as such while at the same time supposedly not seeing how I didn't see it as obvious is something that scum would do.
You're trying to brush me off. You are not trying to step into my shoes at all. That's a problem.
I also would want to lynch KJ if he wasn't my mason buddy because he's really scumming it up out here. Instead I'll just keep pressuring him without strong follow up to distance us
I dont know how to feel about this post
I think he's doing exactly what kj said, getting bad masons to claim.
That's not very townie.
This post on the other hand feels opportunistic to me.
Vote: Rodemy
It kinda does feel bad, doesn't it? Still like Vaimes over Rodemy but I'll keep an eye on him.
See, this is a joke.Although it's a bad one that might make bad masons counter claim him. Do not do that.
I'm having trouble believing that this is a sincere thought. This is supposed to be a relatively experienced site, I believe? Correct me if I'm wrong, but my general impression of the level of play here makes this read to me like someone trying to look appear surface-level villagery and helpful without really having any depth of thought behind the matter - i.e., if that was something anyone would take seriously, or the fact that in this particular setup, the Masons don't actually do anything besides confirm themselves town and shrink the pool of available lynches, so their claims are more a matter of style/preference/gameflow, as opposed to the much more pressing and prevalent mentality of "we must protect our PRs" of your average mafia game.
The fact that Killjoy didn't take any of that into account makes this much more likely to come from mafia who just thought "I'll post something helpful" without actually thinking about the thing in any real detail.
Apologies for the delay.
I thought Vaimes/Killjoy was T/T, but now I'm more inclined to see KJ's point of view. Killjoy is definitely tunnelled, but I can see the reasoning behind it. Vaimes' early posts seem like a fishing trip, and his interactions with KJ are reactionary and defensive. I believe it was Rumanishi who made the point about <shrugs>, I agree with that as well. I can't help but read them in a negative/confrontational context.
I'm getting town vibes from Rod and Grape. Rod seems like he's trying to make sense of people, same goes with Grape. Coupling that with Grape's carefree attitude makes me think he's town or possesses the biggest set of mafia balls I've ever heard of.
Setenza is hard to place right now. They seem to be pushing some, but it also seems like they're just making noise. I could just be reading to much into certain comments, but there's a smugness there that's a little offputting and makes me lean scum without actually being scummy, if that makes sense.
Rumanishi is another hard one to tack down. What they're saying seems ok, but more of it would help. Jokey and carefree is usually <T, but without content is a good way to hide scum.
@Vezok
What do you think about Rod's statement regarding working on players who are posting as opposed to worrying about lurkers? I see the points to both sides, but as someone that has trouble formulating and expressing opinions in the early game I'm biased towards Rod's point of view.
Everyone I didn't mention specifically hasn't made enough of an impression for me to make a stand on.
I'm suspicious in no specific order of vaimes, vezok, horse avatar, and grapefruit. Again, having masons in the game makes it a little bit harder, but vaimes and vezok are sort of acting like they're on a higher plane of information, so I'm worried about that.
Can you expound on Vaimes and Vezok being on a higher plane of info? Specific examples would be nice.
once again, I'm sorry, I didn't notice the mason claim
I mean, having 2 masons claim is probably worse than having all three claim so if grape and killjoy are masons we can prove it by having their third partner claim. Either way neither of those two are voting candidates today.
Since I like rodemy right now I'll Vote: Vaimes. Rodemy is suspicious of vezok in a way that feels super-towny uncertain.
Don't take that claim TOO seriously. While it COULD be true, it's a bad idea to nail ourselves down as to who is masons with whom this early.
Oh, Sentenza, some self-meta: I'm not much of a do-er. I read stuff, I share thoughts, I vote, and that's about it. My playstyle usually puts me under heavy scrutiny from non-familiar players for the first bit of D1, but I'm usually unlynchably towny by D2 at the latest.
On second thought, maybe Rod and Vaimes aren't scum together?
I -don't- think this is scum theatre. (It continues on after this but this is reference to the conversation, not just this specific interaction)
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
And yeah, I'm trying to brush you off. I don't handle pressure well, and at some point I'm just going to get mad for not being able to make my position clear enough that my alignment is obvious.
Besides, of all the players in this game, I'm the least likely to convince you I'm town (at least by directly interacting with you), so. Go rally the troops if you want to lynch me, I'm certainly not gonna help you do it.
At the risk of sounding insanely stupid, I'm starting to pick up on a mason cover game
I've played a game with seer cover before so I'm guessing we're doing something similar
I apologize for misunderstanding if this is the case
and also for not providing cover
Catching scum by looking for people awarding town points is a silly method.
Town points for Sentenza, town points for Vaimes, town points for KJ!
Also DBS rodemys catch doesn't look for differences between scum and masons though... He literally follows it up saying he thinks it would look similarly if they shared either.
And I may be joking, and I'm definitely derping, but I'm also deadly serious.
@Grape this was the post I was talking about, looks like I just misinterpreted that first statement lol
this is what I get for missing days of game and skimming to catch up
Catching scum by looking for people awarding town points is a silly method.
Town points for Sentenza, town points for Vaimes, town points for KJ!
Also DBS rodemys catch doesn't look for differences between scum and masons though... He literally follows it up saying he thinks it would look similarly if they shared either.
And I may be joking, and I'm definitely derping, but I'm also deadly serious.
@Grape this was the post I was talking about, looks like I just misinterpreted that first statement lol
this is what I get for missing days of game and skimming to catch up
In your defense it was very sarcastic.
Also while you should be providing cover that is totally not what I'm doing. Now KJ, Dota, and you may or may not be my buddies, but I super seriously a mason.
I'm comfortable keeping my vote on Vaimes. I don't like this whole "just leave me alive for a day and I'll prove I'm towny then." It reeks of too much self meta and doesn't contribute.
Also that’s not what I said. Or at least not what I meant.
By my own efforts, tone, posting, whatever word you want to use, it’s usually quite clear I’m town by the end of D1. I honestly have no idea why people find the start of my play so scummy. Maybe because I the way I try to figure out the game for myself is too passive for some people’s liking. But it usually wears off by EoD.
So it’s not like I’m just gonna sit here and expect free townreads.
I’m not throwing out self meta because it’s fun or because I think it’ll get me free townreads. I’m explaining the way I play because I’ve had this conversation a million times and I hate it when people get caught up in things that have never been a scumtell for me.
Okay Rodemy does look solid in that back and forth. Town points for that for sure. Not enough to completely outweigh his hop on KJ's push but enough for now.
I did a quick iso of vaimes just to see if there was anything besides the mason stuff and self meta going on and I saw this post
I think Killjoy could be mafia. Might have a better idea several days from now, after he's talked to non-me people.
To my knowledge Rod has never townread me, plus he seems more free-flowy rather than looking to push anything, so he's a light town.
vezok seems town to me only because last time he was scum he tried to mislynch me, and he came off as super unreasonable and pushy. Didn't work. Small chance he could be wary of pushing on me again.
it's subtle, but vaimes is definitely worried or scared of being scum read and I think it shows in this post more than others
Also all these Vaimes attack seem to come from a mindset where you want him to be scum and are trying to justify that. Take a look at the bigger picture and you'll see that Vaimes doesn't seem to have any hidden agenda, he's in this to lynch scum.
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Hey Vaimes, how do you feel about Grape and Vezoks votes on Ruma?
Also how do you feel about Vezoks early focus on lurkers?
I would argue that Rumas attitude is generally Townie still. I also think, if he is scum, then pressuring him now is premature. Now you've forced him to do stuff instead of waiting longer for him to do nothing and making your case stronger.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Nice deflection of the real reasons there. And if as you say there is no substance to anything and no obvious scum reads (in your opinion) of course people will start prodding the people not playing!
Hey Vaimes, how do you feel about Grape and Vezoks votes on Ruma?
Also how do you feel about Vezoks early focus on lurkers?
I would argue that Rumas attitude is generally Townie still. I also think, if he is scum, then pressuring him now is premature. Now you've forced him to do stuff instead of waiting longer for him to do nothing and making your case stronger.
Obviously biased, since I thought they were towny before, and them joining me to vote someone I think is scum doesn't look out of place.
Eh? Kinda scummy, but it's a different approach from his scumplay, so I don't really know what to tell you there. Wait and see?
I don't think his response was towny at all, and your thoughts on Ruma don't mesh. What is your actual read on him?
I can see where Rod's frustration is coming from, but Vaimes hit the nail on the head with the "note for later" post. Liking both as town after reading that whole interaction (should answer KJ's question to me about Vaimes as well)
Also, OOG (((Rodemy))). Sorry for your loss
So far nothing reads as obvious scum. It's all just town paranoia. There's no substance to any of the arguments.
That being said, my current premonition of doubt has been placed upon Sentenza.
Vote: Sentenza
The allegation is, your vibes are off, now react and give me amusement, or face the wrath of the stars.
Good work Ruma, gotta kill scum! If that bolded section isnt scum throwing out a vote for the sake of looking like they're doing something then I'm Abraham Lincoln.
FOS: Ruma (@tom: could we get a votecount please?
@Mikey: I modded OtG4 so I read the game(just not very deeply). How does this remind you of town!Rumanshi?
in off the grid 4 rumanshi said somewhere that when he's town "he trolls" or something to that extent. He wasn't trolling in the beginning (fmpov) but as the game went on he got progressively more sarcastic.
Now he seems this way right off the bat, so I'm guessing it's a continuation. Also, iirc he's pretty new to mafia and this post:
Cool, vote me for having a life. Cheers guys!
So far nothing reads as obvious scum. It's all just town paranoia. There's no substance to any of the arguments.
That being said, my current premonition of doubt has been placed upon Sentenza.
Vote: Sentenza
The allegation is, your vibes are off, now react and give me amusement, or face the wrath of the stars.
fits with "I'm town and don't know what to do". I think if he was scum he'd be a little more aggressive (not a ton, but a little, ya know?)
I can't speak for the others, but I voted for you because none of your posts before this one have neither contributed to catching scum, nor making your thought process clear enough that we can get an accurate read on you.
(I'm reading "Nothing reads as obvious scum" as "There's nothing bad enough that I can justify pushing to lynch without getting heat for it," fyi @ everyone)
(I'm reading "Nothing reads as obvious scum" as "There's nothing bad enough that I can justify pushing to lynch without getting heat for it," fyi @ everyone)
I mean, you voted DBS as obvious scum your first vote. whats changed?
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Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
Hey Vaimes, how do you feel about Grape and Vezoks votes on Ruma?
Also how do you feel about Vezoks early focus on lurkers?
I would argue that Rumas attitude is generally Townie still. I also think, if he is scum, then pressuring him now is premature. Now you've forced him to do stuff instead of waiting longer for him to do nothing and making your case stronger.
Grapefruit21, Vaimes: Talk me through the bolded, with regard to what Killjoy must have been thinking when he wrote it, as either alignment.
It seems like a wildly bizarre thought to have.
As town I could see him thinking that Ruma was going to accidentally implicate himself if we let him keep doing what he was doing, but that makes sense only if he thinks the case was the lurking. Which it wasn't for everyone. I don't really know how a case of lurking=scum gets stronger by waiting tbh. As scum I'm even more baffled as to why he'd say something like that. Ignoring someone to let them lurk longer before pushing them for lurking just isn't a thing. It is just such a bizarre thought and entirely assumes it is a case entirely predicated on Ruma lurking and drawing ironclad conclusions that he is scum based on that.
I think it's slightly more likely to come from town thinking a trap was sprung early, but I don't see that thought arising organically from either.
Vaimes close reading of Ruma's post is good and where my head was at in a much more basic and superficial way.
@Vaimes Ruma was the second highest post but survived to the end. In per day posts I'd guess he was middle of the pack.
You'd be surprised. I've seen people give people early tentitive clears for things I don't quite understand before. Like I said, maybe there's data on memes being linked to particular mindsets. IDK. I haven't seen that data.
Again... the fact that you seem unable to see this from my perspective is suspect here. The only reason it's supposedly a joke is because you say it is a joke, not any other. It's not this super obvious joke like you say and the fact that you continuously try to dismiss it as such while at the same time supposedly not seeing how I didn't see it as obvious is something that scum would do.
You're trying to brush me off. You are not trying to step into my shoes at all. That's a problem.
It kinda does feel bad, doesn't it? Still like Vaimes over Rodemy but I'll keep an eye on him.
Hm. ok.
I like where your head is at, but you're wrong.
I've actually also heard that in misc discussions about mafia theory. I don't have any data on its veracity though.
I like this post.
Can you expound on Vaimes and Vezok being on a higher plane of info? Specific examples would be nice.
Don't take that claim TOO seriously. While it COULD be true, it's a bad idea to nail ourselves down as to who is masons with whom this early.
I'm leaning yeah.
Only you could turn an obvious newbtown clear into suspicion, Vaimes. lol
Seconded.
I -don't- think this is scum theatre. (It continues on after this but this is reference to the conversation, not just this specific interaction)
I've lost to worse derpclears, but I'm also thinking way more likely to be town.
Besides, of all the players in this game, I'm the least likely to convince you I'm town (at least by directly interacting with you), so. Go rally the troops if you want to lynch me, I'm certainly not gonna help you do it.
Killjoy, can you defend this read? I see active lurking.
Vaimes
Emcee, Rod, vezok
Sentenza, Dota, Grape
Killjoy, Tubba
[Dan, Ruma, Huntz, dawn]
I've played a game with seer cover before so I'm guessing we're doing something similar
I apologize for misunderstanding if this is the case
and also for not providing cover
@Grape this was the post I was talking about, looks like I just misinterpreted that first statement lol
this is what I get for missing days of game and skimming to catch up
In your defense it was very sarcastic.
Also while you should be providing cover that is totally not what I'm doing. Now KJ, Dota, and you may or may not be my buddies, but I super seriously a mason.
@Vaimes why so high on Rod and so low on Tubba?
Tubba has made like 1 post and I was reasonably impressed by it. Not enough for a town read but enough that he's not pinging me.
By my own efforts, tone, posting, whatever word you want to use, it’s usually quite clear I’m town by the end of D1. I honestly have no idea why people find the start of my play so scummy. Maybe because I the way I try to figure out the game for myself is too passive for some people’s liking. But it usually wears off by EoD.
So it’s not like I’m just gonna sit here and expect free townreads.
I’m not throwing out self meta because it’s fun or because I think it’ll get me free townreads. I’m explaining the way I play because I’ve had this conversation a million times and I hate it when people get caught up in things that have never been a scumtell for me.
Vote: Rumanashi
I don't understand the Vaimes pushes at all.
it's subtle, but vaimes is definitely worried or scared of being scum read and I think it shows in this post more than others
He's too quiet for his town self.
Also all these Vaimes attack seem to come from a mindset where you want him to be scum and are trying to justify that. Take a look at the bigger picture and you'll see that Vaimes doesn't seem to have any hidden agenda, he's in this to lynch scum.
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Also how do you feel about Vezoks early focus on lurkers?
I would argue that Rumas attitude is generally Townie still. I also think, if he is scum, then pressuring him now is premature. Now you've forced him to do stuff instead of waiting longer for him to do nothing and making your case stronger.
So far nothing reads as obvious scum. It's all just town paranoia. There's no substance to any of the arguments.
That being said, my current premonition of doubt has been placed upon Sentenza.
Vote: Sentenza
The allegation is, your vibes are off, now react and give me amusement, or face the wrath of the stars.
Nice deflection of the real reasons there. And if as you say there is no substance to anything and no obvious scum reads (in your opinion) of course people will start prodding the people not playing!
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Check out the Shop Thread
This seems pretty similar to late-game rumanshi in off the grid, where he ended up being town
Everyone who scum read Vaimes is getting a "probably town" from them, which feels like a lame attempt to "get people off my case"
Response to other things when I’m not mobile.
Eh? Kinda scummy, but it's a different approach from his scumplay, so I don't really know what to tell you there. Wait and see?
I don't think his response was towny at all, and your thoughts on Ruma don't mesh. What is your actual read on him?
The implication that making Ruma Do Things is bad is pretty ??? from a town perspective.
I can see where Rod's frustration is coming from, but Vaimes hit the nail on the head with the "note for later" post. Liking both as town after reading that whole interaction (should answer KJ's question to me about Vaimes as well)
Also, OOG (((Rodemy))). Sorry for your loss
Good work Ruma, gotta kill scum! If that bolded section isnt scum throwing out a vote for the sake of looking like they're doing something then I'm Abraham Lincoln.
FOS: Ruma
(@tom: could we get a votecount please?
@Mikey: I modded OtG4 so I read the game(just not very deeply). How does this remind you of town!Rumanshi?
Thanks DOTA.
Nothing is changing my reads. Like, nothing.
Sorry guys.
Now he seems this way right off the bat, so I'm guessing it's a continuation. Also, iirc he's pretty new to mafia and this post:
fits with "I'm town and don't know what to do". I think if he was scum he'd be a little more aggressive (not a ton, but a little, ya know?)
Hmmm.... this is just wrong on so many levels.
I can't speak for the others, but I voted for you because none of your posts before this one have neither contributed to catching scum, nor making your thought process clear enough that we can get an accurate read on you. Are you just going to wait for scum to volunteer to be lynched?
Does "all town paranoia" imply that all of the scum are lurking?
You can't just handwave everything away like that. It's lazy and doesn't even tell us if you read anything. Did you? This does not look like you voting a scumread. This looks like you voting someone hoping everyone will just back off of you.
I mean, you voted DBS as obvious scum your first vote. whats changed?
As town I could see him thinking that Ruma was going to accidentally implicate himself if we let him keep doing what he was doing, but that makes sense only if he thinks the case was the lurking. Which it wasn't for everyone. I don't really know how a case of lurking=scum gets stronger by waiting tbh. As scum I'm even more baffled as to why he'd say something like that. Ignoring someone to let them lurk longer before pushing them for lurking just isn't a thing. It is just such a bizarre thought and entirely assumes it is a case entirely predicated on Ruma lurking and drawing ironclad conclusions that he is scum based on that.
I think it's slightly more likely to come from town thinking a trap was sprung early, but I don't see that thought arising organically from either.
Vaimes close reading of Ruma's post is good and where my head was at in a much more basic and superficial way.
@Vaimes Ruma was the second highest post but survived to the end. In per day posts I'd guess he was middle of the pack.
Gonna dip for 24 hours or so.
Bye.