MTG Salvation

Okay so pretend I addressed that post to the game at large (most Grape and DoTA) and not Mikey, because he and I are done talking.

Oh, Grape: dbs never thought there could be more than three scum. She thought that one scum would have access to scumchat as well as Masonchat, as the Masons would be divided into Mason/Mason and Mason/scum. Because wherever dbs is from, Masons come in pairs.

Quote from Vaimes »

Fourth, I don't even know what to make of you asking if there's somehow more than three mafia. I feel like it's way too out there for your buddies to coach you into saying that and that it would never work, so like ???

Quote from dawningbluesky »

4. mafia could still talk in their chat as well as the mason chat, from my experience. then again, it does make sense we have the numbers for a 3/3/7. but this reminds me of another question: masons usually go in pairs where I come from, so would there be more here (aka the entire 3 mentioned)? nvm though, I'm asking the host... my general understanding of masons might be more different than I thought..

Dunno if that changes anything. Just something I saw in one of your posts while poking around ISOs.

(I'm biting the bullet and townreading Grape. That's what happens when only one person reaches out to you.)

(( ))

(((@town sorry if I'm wrong)))

and now vaimes is subtly not-so-subtly trying to put dbs inside the lynch pool as well

vezok is right

(My ISO is almost thirty pages long.)

Quote from Emcee_Mikey »

and now vaimes is subtly not-so-subtly trying to put dbs inside the lynch pool as well

vezok is right

Is this you subtly not-so-subtly sucking up the townfirm you and Iso pocketed? Because I thought Iso solved the game.

(I have no self-control. I swear I'm done now.)

Hey Iso, give MTGS an automerge function so you can stop yelling at people for not using the awful multi-quotes.

Quote from Vaimes »

Hm.

Maybe I am wrong on Rod, if Grape is town. I feel like a town!Rod would have snap-voted Grape there.

Nono. I'd lynch iso or grape. Iso more and if he is scum then grape. Like, either is fine, but i want iso first. Because if iso is town, my grape read is null.

Hi Rod.

It's okay, I'm back to thinking you're town now.

Waiting on other people to sanity check me, but not expecting to hear much.

Quote from Vaimes »

(My ISO is almost thirty pages long.)

No. See. I am You are using this as a clear. Like you probably purposefully did this just so you could clesr yourself. In fact, you've dumbposted just to put yourself in a certain post count. You invented this tell and now i am starting to think you want everyone to clear you for it

Guts, i think its grape iso vaimes. Which makes it a very good scumteam.

What? You think I went out of my way to be the top poster so that I could claim I've never been scum as top poster?

That's stupid.

Also the only reason I referenced my ISO there is because I wanted to use the GIF again without reuploading it.

Rod, Iso and I being on the same scumteam means I am actively trying to prevent my team from winning. Stop.

except you're not pushing iso anymore, so you csn't use that excuse

I haven't read (too many posts for a sunday morning) but can we stop lunching Vaimes or at least look at the hypothetical worlds it suggests. He's just not scum here.

I will post more in like 2 hours.

Hi Grape.

I think Mikey is trying to bury me.

It's kind of adorable, but will get him super duper mislynched if he's town.

Help.

Quote from Vaimes »

Hi Grape.

I think Mikey is trying to bury me.

It's kind of adorable, but will get him super duper mislynched if he's town.

Help.

I'm trying but I'm not sure what I can do. Everyone just kind of thinks I'm scum but doesn't want to lynch me yet. I don't think there is a single person alive town reading me.


Anyway catching up. Will be doing some multi quoting and making walls. Would be nice if they weren't largely ignored and just said to be Grape being chill, because I have been anything but chill toDay.

Also Lynch all liars and lynch me it's monday morning but it's a public holiday I forget exists. Queen's Birthday and it's not this Queen's birthday and all of australia doesn't celebrate the same queens birthday. I don't get it.

I just don't see vaime's unending paranoia as the kind that comes from town, and I definitely don't see what you see.

Quote from Emcee_Mikey »

I just don't see vaime's unending paranoia as the kind that comes from town, and I definitely don't see what you see.

What don't you see about his paranoia?

This argument that Vaimes is spinning crazy conspiracy theories is really bugging me. And shows that people aren't trying to take atticus finch's advice at all here. It's one thing for Vezok/Mikey/Dota to sit there and say trust the PoE. You're not in it and you don't know our alignments. But when you're in the PoE [Vaimes/Tubba/Rod/Grape] and don't think the scum team is exactly the other three you have to start looking outside of it. And given that I'm very sure this is town Vaimes and I know I'm town I have to look outside it because it's not a 2 person scum team.

Look at the game from the hypothetical town!Vaimes PoV and see if his paranoia makes sense from there. If you still think he's busting up the PoE because he's caught in it then fine, but I can tell you're not doing that.

I'm here.

God, I want to lynch Vaimes, Tubba, AND Rodemy toDay. This is awful.

Quote from Rodemy »

iso hasn't mentioned his availability for this game which right there should say grape/iso scum.

But this; this is a blatant lie. I don't like that Vaimes is trying to discreetly push the Grapefruit as scum agenda and then Rodemy, smelling blood in the water, tries to smear Grapefruit to force the PoE outside of his buddies as much as possible and then doesn't even vote him. And then Vaimes fights as hard as he can against the Rodemy lynch? Come on, people. Surely, you're not this blind.

Unvote, Vote Rodemy

Vaimes/Rodemy/Tubba. Final answer.

Vaimes is flailing sooo hard, right now. It's unreal.

-

@DoT: You're a Mason. Give us SOMETHING by EoD, please.

-

If we're wrong about someone we've cleared, it's probably dawn (for the reasons Mikey outlined), but that chance is so far away from what I'm actually seeing that it's not even worth pursuing.

Ugh, my co-worker keeps wandering into my cubicle and won't STFU, I apologize if any of this is non-cohesive. He keeps disrupting my train of thought.

-

Flavor claim: I am Winston Bishop, a friend.

-

Quote from Vaimes »

Hey Iso, give MTGS an automerge function so you can stop yelling at people for not using the awful multi-quotes.

wat? You know that the multi-quote function automerges the quotes when you his "Reply", right?

Also, I don't believe Vaimes's olive branch to Grapefruit is sincere. Come Day 4, he'll be all over that "don't lynch my buddies, lynch Grapefruit" ***** again, instead.

Of course in the case of Vaimes his strong town read in the PoE is on Rod which is a read I buy coming from town!Vaimes. He had the big convo with Rod and being in a back and forth like that gives really strong impressions. So it makes sense that he's looking at iso/me teams because his reads necessitate it. I think he's wrong about Rodemy but I can follow why he thinks that and I don't see a scummy progression there.

@Iso with Rod this game I'm nust assuming he's missing things/not taking notes. Like I think he's scum but I don't think he'd intentionally lie about you mentioning your availability. I think he just has a ton going on and didn't read/forgot you mentioned it. Such a weird thing to lock in a scum read over.

Confession: I've never actually used multiquote. I just know a lot of people complain about it.

What, do you want me to sign a blood oath that I think Grape is town?

I'm mostly just rolling with it because if I don't, I'm basically alone in this game and that is super depressing.

I dunno, guys. I've played with Iso when he's Not Mafia, and seen him in action when he actually solves the game.

And this game he's just...not town.

(Also his flavor claim doesn't have a best friend 'cause he's scuuuuuuuuuuuuum.)

((That was a joke.))

Quote from Grapefruit21 »

@Iso with Rod this game I'm nust assuming he's missing things/not taking notes. Like I think he's scum but I don't think he'd intentionally lie about you mentioning your availability. I think he just has a ton going on and didn't read/forgot you mentioned it. Such a weird thing to lock in a scum read over.

It seemed like the best thing to mention, given that everything else he posts is just wildly all over the place.

Quote from Vaimes »

Confession: I've never actually used multiquote. I just know a lot of people complain about it.

Quote from Vaimes »

What, do you want me to sign a blood oath that I think Grape is town?

I'm mostly just rolling with it because if I don't, I'm basically alone in this game and that is super depressing.

secretly, only the Masons and I are town in this game

Quote from Emcee_Mikey »

I think I've given my thoughts on DBS before. Their playstyle is one that kind of pings me as scummy (they claimed bodyguard in OTG 4 and I still thought there was a chance of them being scum!) so I'm trying to look at it with that perspective. I don't really see someone who's super involved with the game, and I also don't see someone who's being coached. I do think, though, that the people pushing for her derpclear locking her in as town are the best place to look for potential partnerships with DBS (whoever brought this up first, good point). I've always been told that masons are town together, so I don't even know where DBS came up with this crazy theory. It simply makes her "not a mason" in my eyes. The towny part comes from my belief that players who are checked out of the game and not paying attention are more likely to be vanilla than coasting scum.

Vote: tubba and hope this PoE is a game solve. Occam's Razor, right?

What's the point of this post and why does this lead to a tubba vote Mikey? You say a lot of words about DBS and you've expressed doubts that he's town elsewhere but none of this is compelling at all that she isn't town. None of this gets away from her absolute genuine confusion. She was speculating about such of the wall absurd things there is no way she knew what the setup was. Even if she was scum and trying to appear confused about the setup I don't see her posting that thing about masons coming in pairs and wondering where the third came from. And the kind of bemusedly realizing that masons being scum would break the numbers of the game and realizing she should ask a mod. Which is an absolutely HUGE deal for DBS. She hates asking mods anything. She would never fake it as scum because she so rarely asks mods questions that by people who know her that would be an instant alert that something strange is happening.

Quote from Vaimes »

I went through dbs' posts again. Didn't really help with getting a better read on her. The "Masons can be scum" thing still baffles me. I don't know how that would work in a non-bastard setup - if the alignment of the person you share a chat with isn't confirmed, then you aren't Masons. If you're told they're town but they're actually scum, then it's bastard.

Anyways.

What I did get out of reading her posts is that she's unlikely to be scum with Rod (for the "good catch" post - one scum Masonhunting and the other one praising him for it would be reeeally ballsy for RVS) and probably never scum with Mikey (she thought he claimed...something, and poked him about claiming a few times).

If she's not scum with Rod or Mikey the team would have to be inside exactly Me/Iso/Tubba/DBS from your PoV. I'm town and Iso and Tubba are pretty much never aligned. Still would appreciate that sanity check on Tubba/Iso. No one really wants to comment on it. DBS is just town here and that is just further proof.

Quote from Vaimes »

I'm Shawn Spencer, and my bff is Burton Guster.

Town

Quote from Tubba Fett »

I am Ford Prefect (as played by Mos Def), best friend to Arthur Dent.

Town.

Quote from Iso »

Flavor claim: I am Winston Bishop, a friend.

Not town.

(This is also a joke, but I'm secretly hoping it isn't.)

((I made this post with multiquote. It's actually not that bad.))

Grape, I don't really know what to say re: Tubba/Iso. Could have been an intentional buddy slip - make everyone think they're not aligned. Or maybe Iso's town and legit, and Tubba's just scum.

No clue.

Not ignoring it to be unhelpful, just didn't have anything confidence-inducing to say.

(Psst, Vaimes, dan wasn't a best friend, either)

Quote from Grapefruit21 »

Quote from Emcee_Mikey »

I just don't see vaime's unending paranoia as the kind that comes from town, and I definitely don't see what you see.

What don't you see about his paranoia?

This argument that Vaimes is spinning crazy conspiracy theories is really bugging me. And shows that people aren't trying to take atticus finch's advice at all here. It's one thing for Vezok/Mikey/Dota to sit there and say trust the PoE. You're not in it and you don't know our alignments. But when you're in the PoE [Vaimes/Tubba/Rod/Grape] and don't think the scum team is exactly the other three you have to start looking outside of it. And given that I'm very sure this is town Vaimes and I know I'm town I have to look outside it because it's not a 2 person scum team.

Look at the game from the hypothetical town!Vaimes PoV and see if his paranoia makes sense from there. If you still think he's busting up the PoE because he's caught in it then fine, but I can tell you're not doing that.

Also, I love you.

Let's run away and start our own Masonry.

Quote from Vaimes »

:/

I might have to reconsider on Mikey. It's like he's not even trying anymore.

Anyway.

@Grape

I don't think I want to lynch Rod. Like, ever.

He doesn't seem to be knowingly aligned with...anyone, really. Too many instances of talking to people in ways that don't suggest partners.

Rod/Iso => With me gunning for Iso’s head and being scumread by more than half of the living players, I would expect Rod to take the easy path, call me crazy, and vote for me. Instead he’s pointed at Grape and Iso.

Rod/Grape => That “I give up” post Rod wrote. He didn’t write that post in a way that suggests a buddy calling you out on a slip. Also seems to be positioning self for a Grape lynch toMorrow.

Rod/Mikey => Rod was giving Mikey a lot of heat for fakeclaiming Masons with Ruma.

Literally the only team he fits on is Rod/Tubba/dbs, and I doubt any of us (but especially town!Iso) whiffs it that hard.

I disagree on your Iso/Rod unalignment. They are both so disengaged over the weekend (for understandable reasons) that the lack of coordination on recent pushes isn't enough for me read them as hard unaligned. I'll have to look back at Rod/Mikey from D1 but giving Mikey crap for Mason covering with Ruma isn't exactly a risky stance to take. It was just bizarre. Given that Mikey had already been slipped as not a mason it was incredibly unconvincing so giving a buddy crap for that doesn't seem impossible. But I'll look at it again.

Quote from Vaimes »

Grape...eh. Probbbably not scum with Iso? If he randomly dreamt up a scumread on Killjoy, he could easily do it to me. And siding with me here only to, what, mislynch me in LyLo? That's pretty slowroll-y.

What changed your mind on me and Iso being buddies? Earlier in the weekend that was your theory du jour. Iso basically hadn't posted since you started spouting that so it had to be my behavior that changed your mind.

Quote from Vaimes »

Quote from Tubba Fett »

Quote from Vaimes »

Tubba, what the **** does the game look like if you, me, Grape AND Rod are all town.

Hard to win

Thanks Tubba.

This just made me laugh. And Iso/Mikey/DBS is never the team. Mostly because DBS is never scum.

Quote from Emcee_Mikey »

I would focus on DBS, because her dumbtell proves only that she isn't a mason. There are a lot of problems with this game, and a lot of people are being cleared because of the presence of daychat. The thing is, I've already focused on DBS myself, and her iso shows she's not too concerned with the game and is playing a very soloist, whimsical game. If she is a wolf, there's nothing tying her to other players, so that puts you in an ultimatum where A) Iso is town and has solved the PoE, or B) Iso is scum and is attempting to lynch the non-wolf players in his PoE.
Which means your play is forced. Which means deviation from that play is a desperate gambit.

Why doesn't it prove she isn't scum? THink about it as scum!DBS here. You're in the scum chat with your buddies and they're presumably hunting masons and you decide to start asking are any scum masons in the game thread? Just nope. Also from what I know of her as a player I think she'd find faking a dumbtell to be really distasteful. She is incredibly prideful (but still nothing close to my ego) and I think it would really rankle her to intentionally fake not understanding something. And I don't think she could be confused about the set up that way as scum.

Quote from Vaimes »

Oh, Grape: dbs never thought there could be more than three scum. She thought that one scum would have access to scumchat as well as Masonchat, as the Masons would be divided into Mason/Mason and Mason/scum. Because wherever dbs is from, Masons come in pairs.

Quote from Vaimes »

Fourth, I don't even know what to make of you asking if there's somehow more than three mafia. I feel like it's way too out there for your buddies to coach you into saying that and that it would never work, so like ???

Quote from dawningbluesky »

4. mafia could still talk in their chat as well as the mason chat, from my experience. then again, it does make sense we have the numbers for a 3/3/7. but this reminds me of another question: masons usually go in pairs where I come from, so would there be more here (aka the entire 3 mentioned)? nvm though, I'm asking the host... my general understanding of masons might be more different than I thought..

Dunno if that changes anything. Just something I saw in one of your posts while poking around ISOs.

Which is breaks the numbers of the game and is completely unbelievable to fake if she actually had access to the scum chat. That is the biggest reason I locked her in. There is no way that quoted misunderstanding is anything but genuine.

Quote from Iso »

(Psst, Vaimes, dan wasn't a best friend, either)

"Best" doesn't matter. All the flipped VTs have friends.

Except Ruma, he had something about Whitecastle.

"A friend" is way too boring to be town flavor. Sorry.

Grape, I'm pretty much townreading you because I'm lonely.

Look at the gamestate from my POV.

vezok has shut me out, DoTA is distracted (but hopefully he'll be someone I can talk to without wanting to throw myself into a whirlpool), Mikey is taking potshots at me, dbs doesn't care about the game, Rod is distracted, Iso is scum, and Tubba is an enigma.

I have no one on my side, so I'm taking your helping hand and running with it. gg Grape, I'll nominate you for Best Scum Performance 2018 even if Iso is on your team because I don't want to reward him for anything ever.

I can get Rod/Iso being disengaged from each other, but why on earth would Rod randomly bus Iso and then say he wants to kill you next and completely ignore me? Clearly people want me dead earlier rather than later.

Quote from Vaimes »

Grape, I don't really know what to say re: Tubba/Iso. Could have been an intentional buddy slip - make everyone think they're not aligned. Or maybe Iso's town and legit, and Tubba's just scum.

No clue.

Not ignoring it to be unhelpful, just didn't have anything confidence-inducing to say.

The critique me walking through the scenario's with me then and tell me if my conclusions about them are crazy.

Scum!Iso trying to impress the masons worlds: he is trying to pocket them by hitting their team and correctly reading the game after not outing them D1. For this he needs to be maximally impressive so he wants to be right. He intentionally shot not a mason N1 because he wanted to pocket them and it's now D2 and one has outed himself. Iso sees his chance and either A: puts a buddy in there for distancing risking his pocket by being incorrect or B: gives his best guess and is wrong about Tubba. Either way once he's corrected he happily puts tubba in the PoE and proceeds to push him. I think A is much more likely than B because this is a play where scum!Iso is positioning himself to be the end game scum. This play is all about giving him credit and leeway to push. So I don't think he's worrying about his buddies in making it.

Town!Iso annoyed at us for pushing the masons rattles of his best guess team thinking he can lock the game up via PoE. Happily flips on Tubba when he realizes his PoE was wrong and that Tubba doens't have much making him town.

I think scum!Iso A and town!Iso are so much more likely than scum!Iso B. Why worry about intentional distancing when you're making a home run play where you need to end game?

So by that logic, shouldn't we be lynching Tubba?

Quote from Vaimes »

Quote from DoTArchon »

Since the Mason's are outed, I demand a flavour claim!

(Why the hell not...)

Ooh, fluff.

I'm Shawn Spencer, and my bff is Burton Guster.

Quote from Tubba Fett »

Quote from DoTArchon »

Since the Mason's are outed, I demand a flavour claim!

(Why the hell not...)

I am Ford Prefect (as played by Mos Def), best friend to Arthur Dent.

@tom I am all about your taste. This game's flavor is incredibly my jazz. Well not so much the music (I'm a boring 2000's indie rock kind of guy) but the characters.

I'm Bob the Skull. I'm not really a skull, more of a floating, ancient, encyclopedia of magical knowledge that often resides in a skull (or the cat when I need to move). I'm annoying and don't really get humans, but I love titillating romance novels. My official flavor is that I'm harry dresden's friend, but really it's more of a I'm a genie in a bottle and he relies on me type situation.

Here's something.

I think Iso didn't really read D2, and his Masonteam guess was based on D1.

I struggle to wrap my mind around him missing such an obvious connection (which I only missed because I went insane for a little bit), since. He correctly found DoTA and vezok.

I don't really want to go into why I think scum!Iso or town!Iso wouldn't read D2 before posting his guess (because all of that will end with shrugdunnolol), but I think it's +scum, given his Electron Rainbow philosophy is all about updating your game view based on new information.

Iso wasn't acting with new information. He either didn't read D2 or read stuff without really processing it. None of those things are indicative of town!Iso.

sorry about not mentioning Tubba, I literally have no idea. Given that I think Iso had no interest in reading D2 because he thought he found the Masons, he and Tubba probably aren't buddies

what the ****, you have the coolest flavor

I think town!Iso wouldn't be locked onto D1 reads.

I think town!Iso would try and actually solve for the exact team, push it, and only change his mind when proven wrong.

The vote hops are nonsense and scummy.

He has shamed the Electron Beam, and for that he must perish.

Quote from Vaimes »

Quote from Iso »

(Psst, Vaimes, dan wasn't a best friend, either)

"Best" doesn't matter. All the flipped VTs have friends.

Except Ruma, he had something about Whitecastle.

"A friend" is way too boring to be town flavor. Sorry.

Psshh. You don't remember the classic, bad, buddy comedy harold and kumar go to whitecastle? Lynch this scum.




Please don't actually do this.

Literally the only flavor I know is Mean Girls.

Everything else is random names.

Quote from Vaimes »

I can get Rod/Iso being disengaged from each other, but why on earth would Rod randomly bus Iso and then say he wants to kill you next and completely ignore me? Clearly people want me dead earlier rather than later.

Because he knows that no one is going to follow his disengaged reads when there are townfirms and two vocal townies in you and me dominating the conversation and it fits into the wild Rodemy narrative. His push isn't going to move the needle and it puts him in a spot where he can come in and hammer either of us or tubba pretty freely if need be. And he basically hasn't posted since you actually came under pressure. I'd bet he'd be willing to hop on your wagon at L2 even if he was pushing elsewhere to start the day. It's not like he has this ironclad town read on you and he's actively trying to prevent your lynch.

Last line is fair enough.

mehhhhhhhhhhhh

Quote from Iso »

So by that logic, shouldn't we be lynching Tubba?

We should always lynch one of Tubba/Rod today. The fact that we're considering a Vaimes lynch is absurd.

I mean, Vaimes is just so far out of left field right now that I can't even. Either he's the worst townie ever or he's scum.

Quote from Vaimes »

what the ****, you have the coolest flavor

Nah Tubba does. Then probably me for now, but Rod's is going to be better.

Quote from Vaimes »

Literally the only flavor I know is Mean Girls.

Everything else is random names.

This makes me feel like the biggest nerd >_>

Also I don't love 1645. Stop making me paranoid about you again. You'd been so townie and then you go making burden of proficiency reads on Iso and start skeeving me out again.

Quote from Iso »

I mean, Vaimes is just so far out of left field right now that I can't even. Either he's the worst townie ever or he's scum.

We're not lynching tubba today, because Vaimes tried to derail the wagon for the third time. Vaimes is dangerous scum. The others are just scum.

There is no 1645, so nyeh.

I don't think it's too much of a burden when a player, whose self-professed playstyle revolves around constantly taking in new information, completely disregards a Masonread blowing up at me misreading another player.