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Quote from Ecophagy »Quote from vezokpiraka » Tom asked shadow to join him on a wagon and shadow did so. I think scum shadow would have been more reserved about doing so immediately. And I confirm I picked tom. Since you've confirmed this, can you also talk about why you town read Tom so heavily? And also go over your Dan read since you didn't explain that. Why do you think scum Shadow would have been more reserved?
Quote from vezokpiraka » Tom asked shadow to join him on a wagon and shadow did so. I think scum shadow would have been more reserved about doing so immediately. And I confirm I picked tom.
Quote from shadowlancerx »@vezok: What was your reasoning for picking Tom?
Quote from tomsloger »DAN MAKES GOOD POSTS OR WHATEVER I'M SURE HE'S SAID SOME TOWNIE STUFF REGARDLESS HE'S GOOD AT MAKING POSTS.
Quote from vezokpiraka »Quote from shadowlancerx »@vezok: What was your reasoning for picking Tom? I like tom. To be fair, it was between you and him, but I decided to pick tom cause I think he's more funny.
Quote from tomsloger »Oh there it is
Quote from vezokpiraka »Grape: I have voted Eco in post #139.
Quote from vezokpiraka » Tom has asked me different questions since the beginning in the chat. I usually treat my neighbours as town and decide if they are scum later. If tom was scum I feel that he could have stopped the questioning and I would have probably been none the wiser, The tone of his posts in the neighbourhood also seems more townie than I've ever seen tom. I'm town reading dan for his response to your question mostly and for his response to my question. I've explained that in earlier posts, but nice try. Because shadow seems to me to be more calculating as scum than as town. I don't doubt that shadow would follow tom even as scum, but I highly doubt that it would do it so quickly.
Quote from Typhon »I thought I'd come join the "poor Eco" thread instead of pinging Eido every few seconds on seconds to say poor Eco. God. Not only is he 100% right, but it's so... clearly reasoned. Like this is how mafia is meant to be played. Town did not deserve this guy.
Quote from Ecophagy »Quote from vezokpiraka » Tom has asked me different questions since the beginning in the chat. I usually treat my neighbours as town and decide if they are scum later. If tom was scum I feel that he could have stopped the questioning and I would have probably been none the wiser, The tone of his posts in the neighbourhood also seems more townie than I've ever seen tom. I'm town reading dan for his response to your question mostly and for his response to my question. I've explained that in earlier posts, but nice try. Because shadow seems to me to be more calculating as scum than as town. I don't doubt that shadow would follow tom even as scum, but I highly doubt that it would do it so quickly. I don't really get why scum Tom would stop questioning you, or why it would be a sensible idea to default assume the neighbour you chose is town by default. You didn't explain your Dan read in your reads post and I wanted a full consolidated explanation of it, but nice try. Why do you doubt Shadow would follow Tom that quickly - since it disagrees with Tom's assessment in #189. Overall, I don't hate you reads. You have them, which is better than some people (Bur, Dan). They're not hugely fleshed out but there isn't SO much going on in the game that that's unreasonable. TBH if you'd made that post when I'd voted you I'd probably have pressed you less. But your OMGUS on me is just so bad. If you're going to contend that the defining feature of my scum meta is that I make attacks for bad reasons you have to actually demonstrate that I do that more as scum than town, and that my reasons here are bad. Instead you've just switched straight to 100% ECO R SCUM RAWR based on maybe 2 quotes without context that incorrectly call some reasons for attacking people bad. There just isn't enough evidence to for you to be as sure as you are, which makes me think you don't believe I'm scum, you've just decided I am and went to try and find the bare minimum of evidence you could.
Quote from tomsloger »I also think death is an excellent birthday present
Quote from Rodemy »vote shadow There we go.
Quote from vezokpiraka »Quote from Rodemy »vote shadow There we go. Can I persuade you to join the Ecophagy wagon instead?
Quote from Grapefruit21 »And I'm permanently paranoid about getting pocketed. Our fearless moderator has a lot to do with that...
Quote from shadowlancerx »DO me a favor and don’t lynch me in the interim.
Quote from Ecophagy » I totally accept that your reads we in their infancy, and I respect that they weren't IRONCLAD HARD CLEARS. My overarching point is that I think were giving town reads out for things which didn't deserve town reads to players who scum would pick as people to pick as town reads because that's easier than trying to lynch them and maybe you can pocket them. snip I don't mean to say "wow ur reason r bad u suk lol" I mean "I don't think your reasons justify your town reads because they are easily within the scum range of those players specifically, and I think a decent proportion of the playerbase at large". As for what I want? Really just for you to think about your initial reads and make sure you are happy with them.
Quote from ganderin_dan » I have thoughts on Vezok that I am currently withholding. Bur knows them.
Quote from Dan » Emphasis mine. Did you accidentally a word in the bolded section of the first paragraph, or an apostrophe?
Quote from Dan » And as for the second paragraph, do you think that my reads need further developing, or are the foundations shaky to the point where they need reworking? Really hoping it's not the latter, considering my existing concerns about the game length.
Quote from Dan »Also, what are your thoughts on the extended Rodemy/Tom conversation that is taking up most of our thread?
Quote from Rodemy »For the record, i think the eco cc is way too off for it to be real.
Quote from tomsloger »Quote from Rodemy »For the record, i think the eco cc is way too off for it to be real."for the record" ? If you believe it try to lynch eco I guess but what is this?
Quote from shadowlancerx »(And before you say “you are”, do you think scum!eco chooses to chat with scum!shadow?)
Quote from shadowlancerx »It’s good for scum in that Vezok claiming Vanilla probably gets lynched anyway, at least this way he goes down with the jailer outed and maybe even gets the actual jailer lynched instead. I’m down for a Vezok lynch, will wait to drop a vote until we’re ready.
Quote from Ecophagy »Rodemy, look, you need to step back and consider the whole picture. There are two possible scenarios here: 1) Scum Vezok realises he's in trouble because no-one is interested in his trash-tier Eco case and he's sliding inexoriably into being the Day's default lynch. He therefore attempts to salvage something for his team by claiming Jailer: he reveals the jailer for the NK and maybe with a big slice of luck gets the jailer lynched instead of himself. It's not much, but better than just getting lynched for nothing. Eco, the Jailer, sees the claim and considers it a very fair trade to potentially eat the NK in exchange for guaranteeing scum D1. He waits to counter claim to see what reactions are: yes, the initial reaction is people sayin "ok" and unvoting, but with under 48 hours from claim to the deadline people should be scrambling for new wagons, giving us voting records and forcing lurkers to take a stand. Vezok's scum buddy in particular has to content with the cognitive dissonance of knowing Vezok is lying without it being public knowledge. Whereas if Eco counterclaimed immediately, everyone is free to stop playing the game and say "cool got one" and just lynch Vezok. 2) Town Jailer Vezok has played scummily and - seeing himself up for lynch - claims. Scum Eco for some reason decides to throw away all of the town points he has accumulated so far and sacrfice himself to push the lynch through. He doesn't decide to just push another wagon (like this convenient Shadow wagon, or maybe a soft lurker like Vur or Dan) but instead throws his life away to lynch Vezok. Maybe he's panicing (out of character) and trying to save his scum buddy Shadow, but in that case why sacrifice Eco's strong position instead of just having Shadow claim Jailer? Or just...start a different wagon? It's just so clear that I have incredibly little to gain by throwing my position as highly town read just for the sake of lynching a Jailer (which is not hugely impactful, especially if both scum are still alive), compared to how scum Vezok has something to gain by drawing out the counterclaim before he dies. Once you factor actual behvaioural analysis into it, I don't understand how you can possibly think I'd be the scum in this situation.