Up to post 100. So far, I can say that this is a heavy information gathering game and so giving free information to the Mafia is bad. Period. Totally against a mass claim until such time as it is deemed necessary WHICH IS NOT DOR THE FORSEEABLE FUTURE.
My notes are at home so I will hold off on anything further till then.
*waves to prop, cyan, iso, lancer, vezok, and anyone else that I have played with before.
@Cyan I will try my very best not to tunnel on you this game without good reason, I promise. #ancientwufflesmeta
Actually I have a few more initial thoughts as well.
There are likely five kinds of powers in this game:
- Powers revolving around the auction house process
- Powers revolving around sanity
- Powers revolving around money
- Powers revolving around items
- more "standard" Mafia roles like doc, big, roleblocker etc.
Too drunk to post right now, but I want to say I really think DBS feels off.
@DBS: since you were wring in the order of atuff you were attacking Atog for, why are you not attacking Grape for the same thing?
Interesting. Someone put a single silver on the tommy gun after I said something....
Guess that cat's out of the bag one way or another then.
I was thinking there's not likely to be a ton of money floating around the game on Day 1 and that some scum person should have put a silver on the tommy gun to lock the poorer town players out of bidding on it.
Alternatively, they could know there's a ton of silver in the game and they feel confident they can overbid us, which is what was implied by no one bidding on it at all.
@dbs: Your playstyle is very hard to read for me at least. I don't really know why. I don't suspect you this game at all even have a slight townread, but I think you getting confirmed is a good play.
I see. I respect that.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Silver, I disagree fairly flatly with you here - and on speculating on auction number alignments in general.
While I am pretty certain that some of those items would be very high priority for Mafia members, I also know that players aren't stupid - those items will be just as forcefully sought by town members for exactly that reason - to keep them away from Mafia in general.
So there's no way to know if a person is a scum trying for a sneaky fetchquest or a townie zoning in on to grab dangerous items.
I think your logic there left a lot to be desired and left a lot out.
Oh, no, I wasn't implying anything about a particular auctioner's alignment. Just that the tommy gun is an extremely powerful item and scum have more information than we do about how much money is in the game, seeing as they know the starting money for multiple roles and town only knows their own.
The fact that no one bid 1 silver on it immediately means there's probably a lot more money in the game to start with than I thought, because if everyone started with just one or two silver (for example) the scum team would have known that immediately and bid immediately to lock it out.
for my reference:
Shinichi > RE
Yurkin > Silvercrys3467
Gwendolly > Wuffles_II
about vezokpiraka: #88: still have a positive outlook on this. he didn't want to deter me from reading him with a 'mechanical player' excuse. #177: asking questions about me (besides an earlier post about my vote) is understandable, since I entered his range of concerns with how I pointed out his mechanical focus. #228: I'm sure scum don't like to give a free pass to town that easily.
if Grape/Vezok aren't aligned, I'm still leaning s/t respectively.
cases on Atog:
saw there were none so far. looks more like he was voted on for insufficient content, which I'd say sounds fair. the fact that none of those voters haven't pursued their votee yet, except me, is opportunistic I suppose.
@DBS It's gross because it wasn't based on any reality in the thread and was admitted to have been made without reading. Those are things wolves would love to be able to get away with. Gross meaning viscerally scummy at a surface level in context.
As for me being obv!town I think I usually am. I'm also either the most active or second most active so far and have plenty to be read by.
As for Wisp I've explained my read several times. It's the way he reacted to Shin early. The detailed focus on the points Shin made in RVS rather than breezing past them or making points of his own. Scum!Wisp the time I saw him was more detail oriented in his defensiveness than town!wisp who is just widely defensive. Yurkin I explained just before your post.
I'm not a fan of plan no one but Terry bid on the tommy gun for reasons. I trust Terry but I don't love automatically cedeing the gun to him since it can't be used toDay. But keeping it out of scum hands is also a really nice benefit to no one else bidding on it. Meh, it's back to the same information vs organization problem we keep running into. A day vig is not quite strong enough to push me to the organization side.
you mean shady? ok.
if you're obv!town, I don't see why someone suggested that you take the Potion of Truth.
those explanations are old, if you get what I'm talking about. I expect you pursue those reads. you've not voted either of Last or Yurkin (now Silvercrys), yet you want to vote Killjoy for reading Last differently. shouldn't you be voting/sorting out Last first? wrong order of suspicion imo.
Too drunk to post right now, but I want to say I really think DBS feels off.
@DBS: since you were wring in the order of atuff you were attacking Atog for, why are you not attacking Grape for the same thing?
vote: dawningblueskie
another poorly-explained vote. please answer my old questions when you can.
as for Atog and Grape, see #428. either you didn't notice it, or refuse to notice it, with the way you voted so easily.
end of post:
I end up suspecting either Grapefruit/Atog/Rhand(especially for the terribad vote-hopping =.=) for scum.
Shadow is worrying, but he hasn't pushed any bad cases yet. I guess my vote on him isn't doing much?
Cyan seems to be garnering votes, but I haven't noticed him much. gonna look there next.
Vote: Rhand
this will be interesting~
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Tom, if I were 15, I would have bid 1 on just the gun and waited to see how much more I would need to bid to get later. Not locked up a bunch of my money this early with no idea how high the gun can go.
I also wouldn't have said anything about the optimal scum play, I would have just done it, because explaining optimal scum play to town is -EV.
@Grapefruit21
Silvercrys replaced Yurkin, and she was on your suspect list. what does the recent mechanics gibberish look like to you?
for me: before and after are NAI, and I still don't understand how you could scumread a slot with just 3 posts.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Not sure whether to roll my eyes for a super *****ty defense or take that as a perspective slip that you don't have a team to manipulate bids with
We're halfway through Day 1 and I haven't done anything yet after replacing into a basically blank slot (except for Grape, I guess) so I'm not sure what you expected other than wine and "nuh-uh."
@DBS why are you so reluctant to vite me? You have hardly made a post without implying I'm scum (an exaggeration) and you keep voting others for things you have said I've done (first sheeping and now vote hopping. Yet you don't vote me, curious.
As for ordering of suspicions I am going to have to disagree with you. KJ made a read that appears to be divorced from the reality of the thread, while wisp showed a marker that is 15% (made up % alert) more likely to come from scum wisp. I wouldn't be scum reading KJ is he said that this defensive energetic version of Wisp feels town (even though I disagree to some extent), it's the reasoning provided. My opinion of Wisps alignment doesn't chamge my read of KJ. It is the reasoning not the vote that is the problem.
@Silver to what end did you decide to specilate in the thread? I liked your decision more when you showed you thought about it but didn't commit anything to the thread. Your second post actually outlining your thoughts looks like you want credit for thinking through mechanics.
Wuffles entrance strikes me better. Doesn't appear to be worried at all about how it's perceived. Just confidence and coming in stating opinions.
@Wisp best imitation of a Cpt. Picard facepalm you've ever seen.
@Phraze
Already had you as town, but your #481 is great. Had the same thoughts about Atog's voters (if they could put some thoughts out on Atog's early claim?).
Would have voted Rhand, but went for Cyan because trains :9
Tom seems to be a good option as well, since I've been waiting for a full catch up for some time.
I also don't dislike your theory on Grapefruit/vez being S/T, though I don't know how to approach Grape. Even though I don't understand 90% of his motives, 4 pages is impressive for a wolf, I'd say...
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RE
Tom is probably scum
If Grapefruit/Vez is S/T, then Grape will always be the T for me
Grape
you don't like my Rhand vote?
Probably referring to you not opening the auction house thread. Though he'd be angrier at my predecessor, lol.
I was actually going to vote vez, but after rereading his ISO, I thought he felt townie overall and I somehow missed the post where he explained his confirmed town read on Terry + commentary on roleplay.
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Not at all. DBS votes him explicitly for vote hopping when it seemed clear to me that it wasn't a vote hop. And you seemed happy enough to sheep that. Also just fyi DBS was specifically saying that if Vezok and I aren't aligned she thinks I'm scum in that pair. Why do you disagree with that?
Not at all. DBS votes him explicitly for vote hopping when it seemed clear to me that it wasn't a vote hop. And you seemed happy enough to sheep that. Also just fyi DBS was specifically saying that if Vezok and I aren't aligned she thinks I'm scum in that pair. Why do you disagree with that?
Also mainly the not opening the auction house thing. RE was right about that. I don't like the vote, but more not even looking at the central mechanic of the game.
Tom seems to be a good option as well, since I've been waiting for a full catch up for some time.
wat
Are you fully caught up? Need more explanation for #450. I don't understand what's to look better about Rhand, or what you actually think of Rhand bringing up Grapefruit's plan.
How serious are you about Silver?
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@Silver to what end did you decide to specilate in the thread? I liked your decision more when you showed you thought about it but didn't commit anything to the thread. Your second post actually outlining your thoughts looks like you want credit for thinking through mechanics.
Clearly I've explained myself poorly, so I'll just lay it all out explicitly.
I don't actually have much cash on hand. Because of that and [redacted], I made the assumption that that meant there wasn't much in the way of day 1 cash.
The scum team already knows whether this is the case or not, because they have multiple role PMs. If I was right, I didn't want to let them know that they should bid on the gun right away if they hadn't been thinking about what their own starting money tells them about the set up, but at the same time I wanted to get my logic double checked because if they *were* paying attention that meant there's more money than I thought and I'm essentially hosed at the auction house.
Once a coin went on the gun there was no reason to not just come out and say it... because the whole point of it was that it might come down to whichever team bids on it first, gets it, and we might not be able to arrange it so Terry gets the gun right away unless he bids first. From the way #15 went in there throwing coins around, I'm guessing that isn't the case. Kind of disappointed that I'm basically locked out of half the game though. @Iso: Do you have reason to believe that Vezok and Atog are specifically scum together, or are they just scummy individually? I'll try to come back later tonight but I might not be back until tomorrow.
Tom seems to be a good option as well, since I've been waiting for a full catch up for some time.
wat
Are you fully caught up? Need more explanation for #450. I don't understand what's to look better about Rhand, or what you actually think of Rhand bringing up Grapefruit's plan.
How serious are you about Silver?
Hmmmm that's an okay answer. It still feels a bit like wanting credit for having thought it out, but I can see your thought process a bit better. And your initial post did strike me as coming from a position of poverty rather than one of wealth so I can see a consistent line of thought, though given the thought spared for scum teams having differing amounts while assuming there isn't much gold to go around... Hmmmm
Do you think we can glean anything from 15's bids? I have thoughts on it, but don't really feel like sharing them atm. Just want to know if you think we can read into those bids behaviorally. Or bids in general without knowing who they are attached to.
@DBS why are you so reluctant to vite me? You have hardly made a post without implying I'm scum (an exaggeration) and you keep voting others for things you have said I've done (first sheeping and now vote hopping. Yet you don't vote me, curious.
As for ordering of suspicions I am going to have to disagree with you. KJ made a read that appears to be divorced from the reality of the thread, while wisp showed a marker that is 15% (made up % alert) more likely to come from scum wisp. I wouldn't be scum reading KJ is he said that this defensive energetic version of Wisp feels town (even though I disagree to some extent), it's the reasoning provided. My opinion of Wisps alignment doesn't chamge my read of KJ. It is the reasoning not the vote that is the problem.
I would be voting you if I it weren't for my observations in #428. sheeping is bad, but you actually posed questions towards Killjoy instead of lurking. if it weren't for your questions, I would give to you what I mistakenly gave to Atogs: the vote for sheeping.
tell me which of my votes weren't explained, because I remember I've explained all of them. if they aren't good enough, I would be happy to clarify them. (and don't you dare go off on a "I will shut you out because you're scum" excuse.)
I've asked Rhand to answer me a few times already, what made my vote and reasoning on Atogs bad? he first said it was a bad reason, but later changes it to "she wrongly read/voted". it does not answer my question. looking at his ISO, I've seen more displays of poorly-explained votes. I have 2 questions for him now [see #453}. vote-hopping is a valid accusation.
alright then. what about Killjoy's reasoning looks wrong to you? casual and relaxed would be my way to describe Last, to some extent, as I've told you earlier on. you say you aren't familiar with Last, so you technically don't know a right or wrong way to describe him - but now you're attacking Killjoy's reasoning because you 'know' it's wrong? how?
@Phraze
Already had you as town, but your #481 is great. Had the same thoughts about Atog's voters (if they could put some thoughts out on Atog's early claim?).
Would have voted Rhand, but went for Cyan because trains :9
Tom seems to be a good option as well, since I've been waiting for a full catch up for some time.
I also don't dislike your theory on Grapefruit/vez being S/T, though I don't know how to approach Grape. Even though I don't understand 90% of his motives, 4 pages is impressive for a wolf, I'd say...
hmm.. I'm guessing it's an insightful post?
Tom isn't someone who likes to share his mindset so idk about him. I'm not sure if Grape is really scum or not, seen a town and scum game from him and he's got me thinking the opposite of his real alignment.
hmm.. I'm guessing it's an insightful post?
Tom isn't someone who likes to share his mindset so idk about him. I'm not sure if Grape is really scum or not, seen a town and scum game from him and he's got me thinking the opposite of his real alignment.
I had similar thoughts to what you posted, so it looks good.
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hmm.. I'm guessing it's an insightful post?
Tom isn't someone who likes to share his mindset so idk about him. I'm not sure if Grape is really scum or not, seen a town and scum game from him and he's got me thinking the opposite of his real alignment.
I had similar thoughts to what you posted, so it looks good.
hmm I see.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
@DBS You misunderstand I'm saying I'm vote hopping or at least that you have accused me of such and reiterating that you not voting me is a very weird look. As for votes of yours that weren't satisfactorily explained, togs, Shadow, and Rhand. You explained togs, but your explanation was lacking and was not based on reality. Your Shadow vote has minimal explanation as far as I can recall and I didn't find it remotely persuasive. With Rhand your explanation isn't something I find scummy (vote hopping) compounded with the fact that you're avoiding voting me despite accusing me of the same and having other issues with my play.
As for Rhand explaining his first vote: you voted togs based on something that wasn't fact. And you quote him saying that's why he voted you ("She wrongly read") I'm not sure how much more of an explanation you need. The second one I thought was explained as well it's the same question I had of "why vote atog for sheeping but not grape?"
As for Last I'll have to agree to disagree. Using those adjectives to describe Last is like calling me laid back or a barrel of laughs. It just doesn't fit. And you're twisting my words. I know what Last was like months back, which is the same exposure KJ had to (ZE) and a bit more than that (we did a semi hydra game together) I'm not familiar with his recent play and he could have evolved, but those aren't words that anyone in ZE should have used to describe him that's why I think KJ's read is fake.
Meh, I'm dropping the roleplay. I'm tired and just want to be able to say things, as fun as it was.
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@Cyan: I have, you're just not paying attention.
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@tom: I resemble that remark. Also, I don't agree with your assessment on vezok/Grape.
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I am in favor of vezok buying and drinking the potion ASAP. If he's not scum, I'd like to move on from that line of thought and reorganize my reads. If he is scum, well, that gives me clout and we have dead scum on Day 1.
I don't really have a preference for who gets the Tommy Gun, as long as it's somebody I'm townreading.
I'm having trouble engaging in these past few pages because nothing anybody has said has really swayed my worldview one way or the other, but I do like RE's entrance.
Oh yay, we have a Wuffs and a Silver!
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@Silver: BOTH ACTUALLY (which I explicitly outlined in an earlier post)
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@grapefruit21 on post 499 - welp, the telescope is completely worthless to scum, so 15 is either town or scum that is already explicitly maneovering for townie points which would feel like a bit of a wasted effort.
The ruby is what scum REALLY want, I would assume. It would make two of their kills unproteccable which is suuuper ridiculous. I know someone's already bid on that one too but posting from my cell is pain so I'll check it later.
I mean to be fair I don't think it's a good read. Grape is saying vezok's most similar to his unfiltered thoughts when scum and that makes him towny lol
Would put that squarely in scum defending a townie territory
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Do you think we can glean anything from 15's bids? I have thoughts on it, but don't really feel like sharing them atm. Just want to know if you think we can read into those bids behaviorally. Or bids in general without knowing who they are attached to.
Without knowing who they're attached to? We could probably make some guesses as to the number's alignment but that's not really useful information since we can't lynch a number. There's more to it than just that, of course, but I'm not sure discussing that while the gun is up for auction is a good idea.
The interaction between Misters Atog and Vezok was very forced in that Mister Atog confronted Mister Vezok about not expressing an early opinion on him. Why on earth would a member of the town care about another seemingly-random member of the town doing such? It does not mesh.
Yeah, I don't know. I know you said you're not rereading yet, but when you get a chance could you iso Atog's first few posts and just, like, walk me through the "awkwardly interacting with my scum buddy while he brushes me off" mindset you think he has there? Particularly the bit where he proposes essentially the same plan as Vezok and then asks him what he thinks the benefits of the plan are, and chases him down when he doesn't answer like "notice me senpai~!"? Because I'm reaaally not getting partner vibes from that. In fact, I'm having a hard time seeing scum!Atog do that in nearly any circumstance.@Lastwhisper: could I get the cliffnotes on your Rhand vote? Are you just randomly wagoning players?
@wuffles The ruby doesn't work for factional kills, but otherwise I'm nodding at your post.
@tom why aren't you voting me?
@silver I agree not wanting to talk about it yet, that's why I limited the question to just do you think you can make a read from the vote. You keep seeming to make reads that you think shouldn't be publicly stated yet. What do you think of Vezok?
@Iso potion can't be drank till D2. Do you still want Vezok to drink it in that case? If so who would you want to lynch today waiting on Vezok to resolve himself tomorrow?
@DBS You misunderstand I'm saying I'm vote hopping or at least that you have accused me of such and reiterating that you not voting me is a very weird look. As for votes of yours that weren't satisfactorily explained, togs, Shadow, and Rhand. You explained togs, but your explanation was lacking and was not based on reality. Your Shadow vote has minimal explanation as far as I can recall and I didn't find it remotely persuasive. With Rhand your explanation isn't something I find scummy (vote hopping) compounded with the fact that you're avoiding voting me despite accusing me of the same and having other issues with my play.
As for Rhand explaining his first vote: you voted togs based on something that wasn't fact. And you quote him saying that's why he voted you ("She wrongly read") I'm not sure how much more of an explanation you need. The second one I thought was explained as well it's the same question I had of "why vote atog for sheeping but not grape?"
As for Last I'll have to agree to disagree. Using those adjectives to describe Last is like calling me laid back or a barrel of laughs. It just doesn't fit. And you're twisting my words. I know what Last was like months back, which is the same exposure KJ had to (ZE) and a bit more than that (we did a semi hydra game together) I'm not familiar with his recent play and he could have evolved, but those aren't words that anyone in ZE should have used to describe him that's why I think KJ's read is fake.
I'm inclined to just zone in on the bolded.
YOU don't have any say in whether my read works for YOU or not, what matters is that I explained it. the same goes for what you're saying in your other cases, you're saying it makes sense to YOU so that's all that matters. THE TOWN is meant to look into YOUR mindset, not get pushed around or become sheep because of YOU.
whether your reads 'fit nicely' into people's ears or not isn't indicative of whether you're town, showing us your mindset is. I can't tell if you're deliberately shielding your mindset or not, since you're going for the "we read differently" angle, so I'm not voting you, nor will I be baited to.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
and another thing.. what you think is irrelevant, what matters is the How and What which leads you to such a thought.
trying to pin the blame on another game is scummy. other games aren't to be used as a case, they're only references.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I mean to be fair I don't think it's a good read. Grape is saying vezok's most similar to his unfiltered thoughts when scum and that makes him towny lol
Would put that squarely in scum defending a townie territory
This is what made me think otherwise. Am I reading that last statement wrong?
@DBS by focusing on that you dodged my larger point. Anyway to your point what you just accused me of (not accepting your reads and confusing that with not having them) is what I'm seeing in your interaction with Rhand. His reasons are there, but you're poking at them while bristling at me for poking in similar way. Your read on Shadow as I recall was "he doesn't feel town when I can usually town read him as town, I need to read him more" which isn't really a read. Is there more to it I'm forgetting?
Anyway I can leave you alone for a bit. I'm badgering you because I think you're town and have really intuitive reads, but let yourself get bogged down in non important things. And you don't always pay attention before you make up your mind.
The pressure of the voices grew. Three, five, more conversations, all at once around me. Too much to keep track of. I thought I heard murmured undertones among them, and voices not of human tongues. Trying to take in the entire room was draining too much of my strength; I must focus on one at a time.
Rhand. What is your current opinion on dawningbluesky, Last and Shadow?
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Up to post 100. So far, I can say that this is a heavy information gathering game and so giving free information to the Mafia is bad. Period. Totally against a mass claim until such time as it is deemed necessary WHICH IS NOT DOR THE FORSEEABLE FUTURE.
My notes are at home so I will hold off on anything further till then.
*waves to prop, cyan, iso, lancer, vezok, and anyone else that I have played with before.
@Cyan I will try my very best not to tunnel on you this game without good reason, I promise. #ancientwufflesmeta
There are likely five kinds of powers in this game:
- Powers revolving around the auction house process
- Powers revolving around sanity
- Powers revolving around money
- Powers revolving around items
- more "standard" Mafia roles like doc, big, roleblocker etc.
@DBS: since you were wring in the order of atuff you were attacking Atog for, why are you not attacking Grape for the same thing?
vote: dawningblueskie
Guess that cat's out of the bag one way or another then.
I was thinking there's not likely to be a ton of money floating around the game on Day 1 and that some scum person should have put a silver on the tommy gun to lock the poorer town players out of bidding on it.
Alternatively, they could know there's a ton of silver in the game and they feel confident they can overbid us, which is what was implied by no one bidding on it at all.
Be grateful, always."
While I am pretty certain that some of those items would be very high priority for Mafia members, I also know that players aren't stupid - those items will be just as forcefully sought by town members for exactly that reason - to keep them away from Mafia in general.
So there's no way to know if a person is a scum trying for a sneaky fetchquest or a townie zoning in on to grab dangerous items.
I think your logic there left a lot to be desired and left a lot out.
Vote silver
#15 and scum
The fact that no one bid 1 silver on it immediately means there's probably a lot more money in the game to start with than I thought, because if everyone started with just one or two silver (for example) the scum team would have known that immediately and bid immediately to lock it out.
Does that make more sense?
Shinichi > RE
Yurkin > Silvercrys3467
Gwendolly > Wuffles_II
about vezokpiraka:
#88: still have a positive outlook on this. he didn't want to deter me from reading him with a 'mechanical player' excuse.
#177: asking questions about me (besides an earlier post about my vote) is understandable, since I entered his range of concerns with how I pointed out his mechanical focus.
#228: I'm sure scum don't like to give a free pass to town that easily.
if Grape/Vezok aren't aligned, I'm still leaning s/t respectively.
cases on Atog:
saw there were none so far. looks more like he was voted on for insufficient content, which I'd say sounds fair. the fact that none of those voters haven't pursued their votee yet, except me, is opportunistic I suppose.
@Grapefruit21
if you're obv!town, I don't see why someone suggested that you take the Potion of Truth.
those explanations are old, if you get what I'm talking about. I expect you pursue those reads. you've not voted either of Last or Yurkin (now Silvercrys), yet you want to vote Killjoy for reading Last differently. shouldn't you be voting/sorting out Last first? wrong order of suspicion imo.
@Rhand
as for Atog and Grape, see #428. either you didn't notice it, or refuse to notice it, with the way you voted so easily.
end of post:
I end up suspecting either Grapefruit/Atog/Rhand(especially for the terribad vote-hopping =.=) for scum.
Shadow is worrying, but he hasn't pushed any bad cases yet. I guess my vote on him isn't doing much?
Cyan seems to be garnering votes, but I haven't noticed him much. gonna look there next.
Vote: Rhand
this will be interesting~
Be grateful, always."
I also wouldn't have said anything about the optimal scum play, I would have just done it, because explaining optimal scum play to town is -EV.
Silvercrys replaced Yurkin, and she was on your suspect list. what does the recent mechanics gibberish look like to you?
for me: before and after are NAI, and I still don't understand how you could scumread a slot with just 3 posts.
Be grateful, always."
Choo choo
@Tom
Why you think he's 15? Tbh maybe I should actually look at the auction house, I haven't opened it since the start of this game
As for ordering of suspicions I am going to have to disagree with you. KJ made a read that appears to be divorced from the reality of the thread, while wisp showed a marker that is 15% (made up % alert) more likely to come from scum wisp. I wouldn't be scum reading KJ is he said that this defensive energetic version of Wisp feels town (even though I disagree to some extent), it's the reasoning provided. My opinion of Wisps alignment doesn't chamge my read of KJ. It is the reasoning not the vote that is the problem.
@Silver to what end did you decide to specilate in the thread? I liked your decision more when you showed you thought about it but didn't commit anything to the thread. Your second post actually outlining your thoughts looks like you want credit for thinking through mechanics.
Wuffles entrance strikes me better. Doesn't appear to be worried at all about how it's perceived. Just confidence and coming in stating opinions.
@Wisp best imitation of a Cpt. Picard facepalm you've ever seen.
Already had you as town, but your #481 is great. Had the same thoughts about Atog's voters (if they could put some thoughts out on Atog's early claim?).
Would have voted Rhand, but went for Cyan because trains :9
Tom seems to be a good option as well, since I've been waiting for a full catch up for some time.
I also don't dislike your theory on Grapefruit/vez being S/T, though I don't know how to approach Grape. Even though I don't understand 90% of his motives, 4 pages is impressive for a wolf, I'd say...
Tom is probably scum
If Grapefruit/Vez is S/T, then Grape will always be the T for me
Grape
you don't like my Rhand vote?
I was actually going to vote vez, but after rereading his ISO, I thought he felt townie overall and I somehow missed the post where he explained his confirmed town read on Terry + commentary on roleplay.
Naked vote hopping anyway.
How serious are you about Silver?
I don't actually have much cash on hand. Because of that and [redacted], I made the assumption that that meant there wasn't much in the way of day 1 cash.
The scum team already knows whether this is the case or not, because they have multiple role PMs. If I was right, I didn't want to let them know that they should bid on the gun right away if they hadn't been thinking about what their own starting money tells them about the set up, but at the same time I wanted to get my logic double checked because if they *were* paying attention that meant there's more money than I thought and I'm essentially hosed at the auction house.
Once a coin went on the gun there was no reason to not just come out and say it... because the whole point of it was that it might come down to whichever team bids on it first, gets it, and we might not be able to arrange it so Terry gets the gun right away unless he bids first. From the way #15 went in there throwing coins around, I'm guessing that isn't the case. Kind of disappointed that I'm basically locked out of half the game though.
@Iso: Do you have reason to believe that Vezok and Atog are specifically scum together, or are they just scummy individually?
I'll try to come back later tonight but I might not be back until tomorrow.
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StaffDo you think we can glean anything from 15's bids? I have thoughts on it, but don't really feel like sharing them atm. Just want to know if you think we can read into those bids behaviorally. Or bids in general without knowing who they are attached to.
tell me which of my votes weren't explained, because I remember I've explained all of them. if they aren't good enough, I would be happy to clarify them. (and don't you dare go off on a "I will shut you out because you're scum" excuse.)
I've asked Rhand to answer me a few times already, what made my vote and reasoning on Atogs bad? he first said it was a bad reason, but later changes it to "she wrongly read/voted". it does not answer my question. looking at his ISO, I've seen more displays of poorly-explained votes. I have 2 questions for him now [see #453}. vote-hopping is a valid accusation.
alright then. what about Killjoy's reasoning looks wrong to you? casual and relaxed would be my way to describe Last, to some extent, as I've told you earlier on. you say you aren't familiar with Last, so you technically don't know a right or wrong way to describe him - but now you're attacking Killjoy's reasoning because you 'know' it's wrong? how?
hmm.. I'm guessing it's an insightful post?
Tom isn't someone who likes to share his mindset so idk about him. I'm not sure if Grape is really scum or not, seen a town and scum game from him and he's got me thinking the opposite of his real alignment.
oh really? I actually worded it as Grape being the S in the case. what do you like about him? and details please
Be grateful, always."
Be grateful, always."
As for Rhand explaining his first vote: you voted togs based on something that wasn't fact. And you quote him saying that's why he voted you ("She wrongly read") I'm not sure how much more of an explanation you need. The second one I thought was explained as well it's the same question I had of "why vote atog for sheeping but not grape?"
As for Last I'll have to agree to disagree. Using those adjectives to describe Last is like calling me laid back or a barrel of laughs. It just doesn't fit. And you're twisting my words. I know what Last was like months back, which is the same exposure KJ had to (ZE) and a bit more than that (we did a semi hydra game together) I'm not familiar with his recent play and he could have evolved, but those aren't words that anyone in ZE should have used to describe him that's why I think KJ's read is fake.
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@Cyan: I have, you're just not paying attention.
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@tom: I resemble that remark. Also, I don't agree with your assessment on vezok/Grape.
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I am in favor of vezok buying and drinking the potion ASAP. If he's not scum, I'd like to move on from that line of thought and reorganize my reads. If he is scum, well, that gives me clout and we have dead scum on Day 1.
I don't really have a preference for who gets the Tommy Gun, as long as it's somebody I'm townreading.
I'm having trouble engaging in these past few pages because nothing anybody has said has really swayed my worldview one way or the other, but I do like RE's entrance.
Oh yay, we have a Wuffs and a Silver!
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@Silver: BOTH ACTUALLY (which I explicitly outlined in an earlier post)
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Yeah, uh, I guess that's it, for now.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
That's, like, a lot of mental gymnastics if they're buddies
You actively think they're w/w Or just open to the possibility?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
The ruby is what scum REALLY want, I would assume. It would make two of their kills unproteccable which is suuuper ridiculous. I know someone's already bid on that one too but posting from my cell is pain so I'll check it later.
Would put that squarely in scum defending a townie territory
Like, I'm pretty sure I've done a defense similar to this one as scum for a scumbuddy. Your interpretation of the situation does not change that.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You did? I iso'd you (heh) but I must have missed it...
Oh, this thing? Yeah, I don't know. I know you said you're not rereading yet, but when you get a chance could you iso Atog's first few posts and just, like, walk me through the "awkwardly interacting with my scum buddy while he brushes me off" mindset you think he has there? Particularly the bit where he proposes essentially the same plan as Vezok and then asks him what he thinks the benefits of the plan are, and chases him down when he doesn't answer like "notice me senpai~!"? Because I'm reaaally not getting partner vibes from that. In fact, I'm having a hard time seeing scum!Atog do that in nearly any circumstance.
@Lastwhisper: could I get the cliffnotes on your Rhand vote? Are you just randomly wagoning players?
@tom why aren't you voting me?
@silver I agree not wanting to talk about it yet, that's why I limited the question to just do you think you can make a read from the vote. You keep seeming to make reads that you think shouldn't be publicly stated yet. What do you think of Vezok?
@Iso potion can't be drank till D2. Do you still want Vezok to drink it in that case? If so who would you want to lynch today waiting on Vezok to resolve himself tomorrow?
I'm inclined to just zone in on the bolded.
YOU don't have any say in whether my read works for YOU or not, what matters is that I explained it. the same goes for what you're saying in your other cases, you're saying it makes sense to YOU so that's all that matters. THE TOWN is meant to look into YOUR mindset, not get pushed around or become sheep because of YOU.
whether your reads 'fit nicely' into people's ears or not isn't indicative of whether you're town, showing us your mindset is. I can't tell if you're deliberately shielding your mindset or not, since you're going for the "we read differently" angle, so I'm not voting you, nor will I be baited to.
Be grateful, always."
trying to pin the blame on another game is scummy. other games aren't to be used as a case, they're only references.
Be grateful, always."
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@Silver: I mean, how does that not seem just completely and totally out of place to you?
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@Grape: Ah. I guess that's fine? If we're not lynching Vezok toDay, I'd like to lynch Togs.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
This is what made me think otherwise. Am I reading that last statement wrong?
@DBS by focusing on that you dodged my larger point. Anyway to your point what you just accused me of (not accepting your reads and confusing that with not having them) is what I'm seeing in your interaction with Rhand. His reasons are there, but you're poking at them while bristling at me for poking in similar way. Your read on Shadow as I recall was "he doesn't feel town when I can usually town read him as town, I need to read him more" which isn't really a read. Is there more to it I'm forgetting?
Anyway I can leave you alone for a bit. I'm badgering you because I think you're town and have really intuitive reads, but let yourself get bogged down in non important things. And you don't always pay attention before you make up your mind.
Rhand. What is your current opinion on dawningbluesky, Last and Shadow?