What's up with DBS's and grape's votes? Did I miss anything?
My vote is I got names mixed up... >_>
Vote: Yurkin
What do you think is with this one now that it's on the correct player?
@Rhand I'm a bit reluctant to discuss which items I think should be voted for because I feel that makes it easier for people to pin point which bid number belongs to you. It's a bit of a catch 22.
Yeah, this makes a ton more sense.
@yurkin: Why do you think grape voted you?
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Killjoy I think Last might be town? That is probably my most solid read atm.
??? how
Rhand @Grape/dota: your discussion is the wrong kind of mechanical discussion to have. You’re explaining what you’re expecting scum to do with the auction house. Which will make scum careful not to do that.
Better to keep those ideas to yourself and use them to catch scum later on when they actually did it.
But in the end its better to keep information in the open since we as the town are the uninformed dont you think? Likewise, town can think of this stuff, then so can scum, so its frivolous to say we are giving scum ideas to work with. But I do understand that there are some things better left unsaid... also ur second sentence is mostly wine
Vezo What's up with DBS's and grape's votes? Did I miss anything?
Why do you need other peoples clarification to come up with a reasoning for their votes???
vote: Vezo for now, until I can dive deeper into this game after I finish some RL stuff
Rhand @Grape/dota: your discussion is the wrong kind of mechanical discussion to have. You’re explaining what you’re expecting scum to do with the auction house. Which will make scum careful not to do that.
Better to keep those ideas to yourself and use them to catch scum later on when they actually did it.
But in the end its better to keep information in the open since we as the town are the uninformed dont you think? Likewise, town can think of this stuff, then so can scum, so its frivolous to say we are giving scum ideas to work with. But I do understand that there are some things better left unsaid... also ur second sentence is mostly wine
You’re confusing me here.
You’re first saying that it’s better to keep info in the open. You can only be talking about Grape and dota telling us how they expect scum to behave in the auction house.
Then you say you agree some things should be left unsaid. What things do you mean then?
And then, when I explain why saying out loud how they expect scum to behave is better left unsaid, you call that wine?
That feels like a smear to me. Don’t you agree that if game mechanics promote a certain scum behavior, you want scum to commit the behavior so you can catch them do it rather than putting it out in the open before they can commit it, nullifying the whole scumtell?
Vezo What's up with DBS's and grape's votes? Did I miss anything?
Why do you need other peoples clarification to come up with a reasoning for their votes???
vote: Vezo for now, until I can dive deeper into this game after I finish some RL stuff
Why are you announcing temporary votes / even casting them in the first place?
hmm... gunna be one of these games
Rhand
Its a good enough for me to move out of my rvs vote, dont like how he asked others why Dawn and Grape voted the way they did? Would it not just be better to ask the individuals? I was mainly saying that, you forwarding the idea that telling scum how to use the auction house, would only deter them from doing it, is exactly that its wine... Its literally the definition of wifom
What scum behavior does the auction house put into place? Until we have a better idea of what some of the items do, its hard to say, and even so, some items can both be used by town and scum...
My stance is that, explaining what scum may do is better in the open for those who are also the uninformed
@Rhand yeah, it's frustrating because it's worthwhile to speculate about and knowledge of the flavor might lead to semi informed opinions, but I think the accidental outing risk is too high. Maybe on a later day it's worth trying to force certain items up for auction.
@Wisp why wouldn't you want other people's reasons for their votes? Why would it be suspicious that someone was asking for reasons behind a vote?
@Rhand yeah, it's frustrating because it's worthwhile to speculate about and knowledge of the flavor might lead to semi informed opinions, but I think the accidental outing risk is too high. Maybe on a later day it's worth trying to force certain items up for auction.
@Wisp why wouldn't you want other people's reasons for their votes? Why would it be suspicious that someone was asking for reasons behind a vote?
What do you mean? Why would Vezo need to ask anyone but the two people who voted, why they voted the way they did?
What's up with DBS's and grape's votes? Did I miss anything? Doesnt sound to me like hes specifically asking you or DBS, but a general question to the group as whole...
or maybe im completely missing the point, and hes actually asking why you and Dawn are garnering votes? haha
@Last I already answered that. I got the names mixed up. Yurkin had voted DisplayName and my wires got crossed.
And I see what you're saying about Vezok not directly asking, but ehh. He's not really evading asking or doing anything with it. It's just an inquiry, if a bit indirect
What I wrote wasn’t wine. What I was saying is that now whatever scum does becomes wine. So I guess you’re agreeing with me.
And yeh, you missed the point about your Vezok vote. What bothers me isn’t that you vote him, it is that you already say you’re gonna change that vote.
Grapefruit
Hmm... ok, Well why Yurkin unless u already answered that?
and true, but I'd rather see his thoughts on your votes, rather than him rehashing he thoughts based on other people's reasoning.
@Wisp well the level 0 read is that he doesn't have thoughts when I was voting displayname, but sees something in my Yurkin vote based on his reaction. He wasn't rehashing other people's idea's he was asking a question because he was bemused. And I haven't explained my vote and I'm not going to yet. Though I'd be curious to hear why you think I'm voting Yurkin.
@Rhand MAL uses a lot of lingo in ways that are close enough to be similar to ours in context but be very different meanings. See the earlier discussion about Policy Votes that wasn't remotely similar to what policy votes would be here, but was in a similar context to the way we'd use it.
@wisp: It was an open ended question as both voted without explaining why and the people voted have no real contribution to the thread. I was simply confused as two different people did it.
I'm not usually one to ask for reasons for a vote as I can usually pick them up from context, but in this case the votes made no sense.
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@Rand I am always seen as scum lol so no hard feelings, I do agree on how massclaiming should be done because for all we know by day 3 mass claiming could be a really bad idea. I feel like speculating items causes no harm and that way we can vote for items that would benefit us now instead of voting for items that arent even needed at the time.
Whats not to understand, the way you came into the game suggesting the mass auction claim should not be used as a means to read you as scum because its the same as someone coming into the game asking for a mass claim. Its bound to happen and we cant just wine ourselves to believe only scum would suggest ***** like that or else we would just be mislynching all the time.
I also said that if people like to follow norms people like me and others might read them as scum if they try to break free from that.
@dota why not? I thought it would be best to town knowledge for them to know that their is someone in this game that i already have a conformation of being town as well as knowing their auction number
-I clearly stated it depends on how the day 1 goes i dont think it something that should be decided 3 days in, ive yet to see/hear all the benefits, Though i suggest a few ideas of my own in a future post i am sending out. Was too lazy to break up the post.
I agree that we shouldn't focus too much on mechanics, as tempting as it is for this setup. Proph/Grapes looking good in that regard.
Shinichi vs Last is coming off as town to me. I know some players like to rvs certain people as a gimmick, but it isn't close to policy.
also, to my definition, policy means lynching someone cuz you know they are more helpful to town dead than alive (because of playstyle, or other). policy voting is voting someone regardless of their alignment, because an action taken looks unhelpful to town. gimmick voting is different.
I don't like Vezok's constant focus on mechanics. the least he could do was use that to fish reactions, then question the players why they react that way. like #80 ("I think this post comes from town terry, but I don't really agree with it.") looks good at first, but it goes into more mechanics talk rather than questioning Terry for the whys of his post.
I dont agree on that mechanics atleast for the auction should be clarified as soon as possible, that way everyone has the same understanding of what the auction house does and how we're going to go about using it to towns best itnerest. I question how one can think a post comes from town but then not agree with it the latter should normally apply to the other.
The first hours of the meeting were a hubbub of greetings and idle chatter. A welcome distraction on most any other day, yet today it merely set me on edge, knowing that some of the smiles around me hid dark intents.
The ones called Prophylaxis and Rhand, at least, rose above that banal noise. A certain flexibility of the mind, and pointed questions. They had the air of true curiosity, reminding me of the archaeologists that had set out upon that expedition to Egypt. I could only hope they would not meet the same fate.
Grapefruit was teeming with plans. I misliked the quickness with which he began to command, yet perhaps this was just an industrious nature. His questions, at least, deserved answers.
We should not be seeking the logs of the auction house. As the purchases by the numbers are themselves public knowledge, I can only surmise that they would contain the identities of those who bid - perhaps for all numbers, but more likely just for those who have won auctions (as the auction house would need to keep a record of their addresses, for delivery). I think this should remain secret, for the same reason that I prefer we maintain secrecy in our auction numbers.
The blacklist, I suspect, would be a permit to ban someone from the Auction House - temporarily or entirely - and may be useful in future, but it is too early to make use of it.
I am also wary of several of the items listed. Simply from the name, they strike me as too dangerous to be used. In my research at the Miskatonic University Library, I came upon some of the names that are present here. Surely no good can come of any relic of the Yellow King, to say nothing of the danger of associating with the dread daemon sultan - and you may call me superstitious if you wish, but I will not say his name here; I will simply say that a Mask with that name is on the rolls. Better to let it rot in a forgotten warehouse, I would say.
As for the others, no ill can come of Holy Water or a Cross; and I think it would be safe to have such mundane things as a puzzle-box, a telescope, and so forth.
Permanently sounds way to strong and lets get to carried away with the speculations here.
If thats what you think the logs do then it be best to give that to town as soon as possible no? I cant see a world where that item getting into scum hands would be anything short of terrifying. I feel like those with weird names shouldnt be barred off by name alone not till we atleast see what they're capable of.
@Vezok I think you misunderstood me. My proposal was to keep anyone from getting information. And was made at a point when I thought the logs were guaranteed to go up for auction.
I'm saying if that item does go up (and it revealing what it is doesn't change the equation) that town elects one person to bid on it. And if someone else bids against them we mass claim. Otherwise we play as normal till D3 at which point I suggest we mass claim. Preferably we should not let that item be bid on at all though. At least not early. Same with the blacklist one.
i feel liek it be best for the original voter of an item to out his number if that item gets the most vote. This is better than just too mayn people outting their auction numbers and we will always no who has that item if anything happened that caused that player to seem scummy. Unless you already think 77 is scummy solely on the items.
the only thing that strikes me odd about Ath is that he suggested having an ability that effects the auction house, i believe discussion like that happened in the zero escape mafia as well plus the person who started that conversation was town. Even I had abilities in that game that correlated with the mechanics and I was town so I dont feel like that strikes me as odd. Outside of that though atho hasnt given me much to work with plus cuppled with the fact i havent known him long enough its hard to say.
A few of us spoke much more than the rest. I did my best to follow along, though it was at time difficult. One of them took the moniker of Shinichi, and I had read of that name before - in a fanciful tale, regarding the strange case of a physician with unusual fighting talents. The character in that story had carried ill intent, so I thought perhaps I could see some resemblance here. On the contrary, while the rambling style was the same, there was something about the content that made me feel this one was more trustworthy. Perhaps it was because, lighting on so many topics, the speaker in this case at least presented an opinion, where the malignant and ill-fated doctor in the story had been full of questions with no answer, and lacking in definite positions.
Now several of the townspeople had impressed me, but I had no leads on those who might be working ill. Were they particularly silver-tongued? I was reminded of the rumors of Nyarlathotep, an imposing man - allegedly from Egypt, but perhaps from a further and stranger place - whose words could convince the most observant man to believe in nonsense and falsehood, and the uneasy thought struck me that such a man (if man he is) could well have shared his talents with others.
Or, perhaps the cultists were among those who lurked at the edges of the crowd. I had noted that some were brief in speech, and furtive of appearance. I am always of the opinion that an honest man need not avoid the eyes of society.
Of course, it is yet early in the day; I must hope that the passing hours give me more of substance to consider.
I like where Kami's head is at. Yes there is a lot of words to say a little but it's also a good in depth read.
@Shin read before you ask questions my man. I've stated my opinion on 77 a couple times. I'm pretty sure you have quoted it before.
Anyway super duper strongly disagree with your original voter outs themselves when an item goes to auction house. But I'm going to need you to explain why you think that is a good idea. What gain does town get from it?
As for the logs, yes that would be terrifying. That's why it should never go for auction in a traditional way. It's not like we're obligated to vote for it.
Also 127 is pretty much intelligeble. I don't know who any of it is referring to. Is Ath someone? Without knowing who you're talking about I can't follow any of what you're trying to say there.
"I neither knew nor cared whether my experience was insanity, dreaming, or magic; but was determined to gaze on brilliance and gaiety at any cost. I knew not who I was or what I was, or what my surroundings might be; though as I continued to stumble along I became conscious of a kind of fearsome latent memory that made my progress not wholly fortuitous."
@KJ: I don’t want to pin us on a claim day and I do want to talk about items. I like that Grape doesn’t want certain items in the game early, but I think it’s more valuable to decide which ones we do want instead of which ones we don’t want.
hmm I'm bad at dealing with mechanics from track record, so I usually avoid it. but I guess it should be a topic for D2, when we're more in need of organizing priorities after the 1st volley of night actions. that's my thoughts on the matter, and idk almost half of those items + how useful they are. <- research is in order
What's up with DBS's and grape's votes? Did I miss anything?
looking for a new lead. Vaimes seemed happy to vote Proph and disappear, so I wanted to see what a vote on him would do. I'd expect his rvs on Proph was fishing for reactions? someone took the bait and he doesn't seem to care (by his next post). nice to know he appeared when voted on though, I guess.
grapefruit as 4 votes... lmao
ZE all over again...
we can never be sure. Grapes isn't someone we can easily read as town, and a recent game is evidence of that (he blinded almost the entire playerbase).
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@Proph I agree that's a noble goal, but I think in a game this mechanics heavy some mechanical discussion is a must. Just not at the expense of also looking at behavior. I also missed Kami being excited in the signup thread, so that weakens my reaction to the flavor post a bit. Thought it was more spontaneous than it was.
Yeah I definitely agree that some mechanics discussion needs to take place, but I just don't want it to bog the thread, which is why I made that disclaimer.
Liking Grape's questions in 67.
Agreed with Rhand in that we should look into anything investigative/restoring sanity for the auction.
I really liked reading Kamikaze's 74; keep up the role playing, it's incredibly enjoyable to read.
Quote from Shinichi »
I feel like vezok idea doesnt need to come from scum nor do we have the information to suggest I am sure someone would have brought it up just like someone always brings up massclaiming its inevitable. I feel like its best to get the mechanics talk out of the way so everyone understands the auction and how we're going to go about using it. Since scum will clearly want in one what gets given out and will def fight for stuff.
Fair enough on the mechanics stuff.
What do you mean by the first sentence (I bolded it)? I've read it like two or three times already and have a hard time understanding it. Is it like "I don't think vezok's idea comes from scum, someone will eventually bring up mechanics discussion, and vezok happened to do it" or something like that?
Quote from Shinichi »
They don't, but its like if people want to follow norms expect that me or others moight scum read them from the fact that they're branching out is all. Not entirely just assumed his scum, but i would def be pushing him so much harder if that was the case. I would have assumed last was scum and if he had flipped scum either he manipulated me or gwen is scum with him.
Ditto with this; I'm with vezok in that I find this post incredibly hard to understand.
Quote from dawningbluesky »
Shinichi vs Last is coming off as town to me. I know some players like to rvs certain people as a gimmick, but it isn't close to policy.
Do you think Shinichi and Last are both town with the way they RVS'd each other? Can you go into a little more depth on this, in particular the Last townread? I have him down as making housekeeping comments/fluff but I don't think there's nothing really alignment indicative to his posts right now.
Quote from DoTArchon »
I agree that it's a bad idea to claim it so early, but there have been games where deciding and debating on actions/items as a group have been the deciding factor in town winning (see the final Days of Mafia vs Werewolves). Are you entirely opposed to the idea of a group decision or do you think it could be worthwhile later in the game?
I think it can be worthwhile later in the game, when the gamestate becomes a lot more.. exact, for lack of a better term, and mechanics play a slightly larger role in determining how the game goes. I don't want games to be bogged down in mechanics discussion though because I've lost some games due to that (like Iji Mafia 2, where they lynched Kami when he was town by behavior because of a mechanical action plan that went haywire)
Tell me how asking this question helps you figure out my alignment.
Quote from Togs »
Uhh the twins.. their posts are kind of hard to parse and I kind of glossed over, so no. Rn I’m just answering what catches my eye but since there’s only 2 pages I can probably afford a more careful reread. Any reason you asked this, did you notice anything ?
I want to see where your head is at because if you're town then I think we can work pretty well together. Since you're familiar with those two players I want to know if anything specific caught your eye, since while I've played a fair amount with Shinichi I only have like 1-2 games worth of experience with Last.
Let me know what you think of them as Day 1 progresses, then? Keep me updated on the read.
Quote from Grapefruit21 »
@DBS the pirates scum chat will give you insight on my opinion of Vezok as a player. We both think mechanically, but I'm less agressive than he is. Note our debate around the third vanilla shot for example.
Can you shoot me a link to that scumchat? Feels like it could be some interesting reading considering I have played very little with vezok (he was around when I played, back in the day, but I recall him being more of a 'Scummer).
Liking how DoTA is engaging with Grape so far.
Quote from killjoy »
@Proph: I think that engaging you in discussion might help me figure out your alignment, so
What do you think of Grape's proposal?
Similar to DoTA, tell me how asking me this question helps you figure out my alignment?
I'm fine with having specific townies we can all collectively trust claim to use specific items, but I don't want that discussion to take up a major part of the day. Not the biggest fan of massclaiming though, I feel like the correct strategy for MTGS Specialties is to treat the game as vanilla/behavioral based until necessary.
Quote from killjoy »
I think Last might be town? That is probably my most solid read atm.
Can you explain why? I have him as null now because he's.. not posted much that I consider alignment indicative/he's fluffing and making side comments.
Trying to read Rhand vs Last is making my head spin at 1 AM at night; going to look over it more tomorrow.
Can agree with Kami in that Shinichi's 126/127.. again make my head spin but it feels as though he is making more nuanced comments about the gamestate than what I expect from him as scum, though @Shinichi, can you answer my questions in post 53? You kind of skipped over them.
Quote from Grapefruit »
Also 127 is pretty much intelligeble. I don't know who any of it is referring to. Is Ath someone? Without knowing who you're talking about I can't follow any of what you're trying to say there.
Ath is apparently Atogaholic (who you may also know as Togs), I assume this is some sort of mobile autocorrect.
Quote from Lastwhisper »
grapefruit as 4 votes... lmao
ZE all over again...
What do you think about him being at 4 votes, though? What's your opinion on his wagon so far?
Quote from dawningbluesky »
and I'll add.. Shadow is looking like a shadow of his town self. he's asking for opinions on others (i.e Kami) instead of giving his own thoughts.
If you think that shadow is not looking townie, then why not vote him? Is your read on Vaimes stronger?
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Pretty much caught up with the gamestate, I have a bunch of weak townreads (Grape/Rhand/Shinichi/DoTA/Kami) but nothing so far has really stood out to me yet in terms of slam-dunk scum? Going to try and give this game another read-through tomorrow and post my thoughts but I feel like a third of the playerbase is lurking and we should.. poke sticks at them.
honestly wouldn't surprise me if X scum just did not show up to the thread yet or have 1-2 posted
given how ZE town ignored the lurkers for the first couple of game days and they ended up being scum I want to hold their feet to the fire early and often
Actually, @Rhand: same question. You two are going to be the two I will have the most trouble with (except for potentially Kami, but we'll see) so this seems a good place to start.
@Shin: Thoughts on Atog?
Atog: Thoughts on Shin?
I don't plan to bid on the Auction Logs or Blacklist btw.
I think Last might be town? That is probably my most solid read atm.
as much as was thinking of pressuring lurkers etc i was thinking about sort of giving a day 1 pass for any new MALers (Gwendolly/DisplayName/yurkin) given that they are new to the site and lynching them day 1 would leave a bad taste in my mouth, since they're still getting used to the site/meta + being lynched in your first game in a new site sucks, personally speaking
for anyone not in the know: Shinichi/Lastwhisper/dawningbluesky/Gwendolly/DisplayName/yurkin come from MyAnimeList, the land of WEEBS, where the games are much shorter and less analytical than MTGS. i kind of started playing on the site two years ago because i wanted to play on a site without meta + playing on new sites is fun for me. and i inadvertently invited some cross culture pollination here. just to give people a heads up as to why there are a lot of newer players in this game
Rhand if you think Grape is town, who do you think the possible scum are on his wagon? What are your thoughts on shadow/DoTA/Terry?
If there’s scum on that wagon, it’s probably Shadow.
I have a light townread on Terry for the natural reactions on my auction idea, and on DoTA for a bit of mindmeld.
Shadow hasn’t posted enough to get a real read there. But if I’m right about all the town reads I have now, then the lurkers almost have to be scum.
@Vezok I think you misunderstood me. My proposal was to keep anyone from getting information. And was made at a point when I thought the logs were guaranteed to go up for auction.
I'm saying if that item does go up (and it revealing what it is doesn't change the equation) that town elects one person to bid on it. And if someone else bids against them we mass claim. Otherwise we play as normal till D3 at which point I suggest we mass claim. Preferably we should not let that item be bid on at all though. At least not early. Same with the blacklist one.
I understand what you mean now. Yeah, I also thought about mass claim on day 3. This seems like the best idea unless something else happens.
---
I kinda like Rhand.
I have mixed feelings about reading...half of the playerlist, because they all remind me of Shinichi.
I am not at all a mechanical player. I was lured in by the flavor and approximately one-third of the players.
I'm just gonna scumhunt and kill wolfy people and let other people handle the blah blah blah for the time being.
That being said, I didn't really come away with any remotely strong feelings. It's mostly "massclaim yes no" and roleplaying.
Ur a good player but so fustrating to read into i swear. Letting other people handle the rest of the work doesnt seem like something a town player would suggest. What do you atleast think of the new players that you havent seen nor played with before.
@Rhand if scum decides to not vote for the logs because I've outlined it as scum behavior then I consider that a victory. But you're definitely correct in a general sense.
@Killjoy talk to me about Wisp. I'm not settled on him at all, but my gut is saying he's scum. His half of the conversation with Shinichi felt performative to me. More like he wanted to put on a show of interacting with his brother, but was forcing it.
I really dont believe thats gonna stop them, since you've kinda created a wine that makes it seems like the next person to vote for the logs is possible scum. Btw why arent u asking me a question like this when he's been interacting with me the most.
@Rhand yeah, it's frustrating because it's worthwhile to speculate about and knowledge of the flavor might lead to semi informed opinions, but I think the accidental outing risk is too high. Maybe on a later day it's worth trying to force certain items up for auction.
@Wisp why wouldn't you want other people's reasons for their votes? Why would it be suspicious that someone was asking for reasons behind a vote?
What do you mean? Why would Vezo need to ask anyone but the two people who voted, why they voted the way they did?
What's up with DBS's and grape's votes? Did I miss anything? Doesnt sound to me like hes specifically asking you or DBS, but a general question to the group as whole...
or maybe im completely missing the point, and hes actually asking why you and Dawn are garnering votes? haha
Rhand has a point thought i mean I know its norm in MS to announce a vote may be temporary but in a place where people arent used to that like MTG its similar to leaving a backdoor open which is normally a scum trait.
I like where Kami's head is at. Yes there is a lot of words to say a little but it's also a good in depth read.
@Shin read before you ask questions my man. I've stated my opinion on 77 a couple times. I'm pretty sure you have quoted it before.
Anyway super duper strongly disagree with your original voter outs themselves when an item goes to auction house. But I'm going to need you to explain why you think that is a good idea. What gain does town get from it?
As for the logs, yes that would be terrifying. That's why it should never go for auction in a traditional way. It's not like we're obligated to vote for it.
Also 127 is pretty much intelligeble. I don't know who any of it is referring to. Is Ath someone? Without knowing who you're talking about I can't follow any of what you're trying to say there.
whats wrong with having the player who originally voted an item out themselves, that way we know who has the item and alot can be said if the player lives or dies.
I just rather that idea than having us vote on who should be allowed to buy an item, it leads to biasness and manipulation dont you think.
i was refering to **Atogaholic** when i stated ATH but i confused o with H XD. I was saying i dont believe him announce he has an ability that correlates with the auction house as wrong because the same thing happened in zero escape. Both scum and town had abilities that correlated with the AB rounds so i am sure the same can be said here.
@Shin that's not going to cut it. You made a proposal and responding with it's telling to see who lives and dies after outing is not even close to a reason to out people who first voted for an item.
The additional propsal of voting on who can buy it doesn't remotely justify the first one. So try again. Why should people out their bod number of they were the first to vote an item up for auction.
Also why are you questionijg Wisp for asking the same question you did?
And knowing other people's reasons for reading into my votes gives a lot of insight into their motovation.
@Yurkin sure every question can't provide insight, but they all have reasons for being asked. And if yours what solely to implicate that you don't like my "taking control" why not just accuse me?
@Kamikaze I want you to talk to me about my never put the logs or blacklist up for auction theory. You also seem to have put a fair amount of thought into the set up and I want your opinion on it.
Rereading what's here Shin looks townier than I remembered.
@Yurkin how would you decide if somone was trustworthy, if the game mechanics made you pick someone to trust? What does asking how I would give insight into my alignment?
Whoever I think is town ofc
Sadly not each and every question can be telling.
Don't really like the taking control over the game proposal, the question I asked is low key showing this. If u were scum herew taking that sort of position would be in your plus. From where the disliking of the idea.
How is proposing that we collectively as a town decide who gets the logs taking control of the game?
Though you admitting it was shade rather than deflecting it is a good look.
@crossbell
#135
-Glad u agree on the mechanic stuff I do agree that it shouldnt clog the thread but its kinda inevitable when a new mechanic like the auction house is present, and you are correct about the vezo thing i basically saying someone was gonna do it so i cant sit here saying hes scum because he said it first when he could easily have just been town bringing it up.
-Smh all i am saying is i expect people to rvs in a certain way if they change that something strange is going on, that's all i am implying. I don't know hy you 2 are dwindling on it since that case isnt even present in the game i was just providing my thought on why i am glad wisp voted normally.
-I feel like togs will slowly reveal his alignment as the game goes on, if he actually stays active -.-. I feel like togs comment is weird seeing as how hes never expressed an unease when reading me/kyle posts before.
-#53 Question-I see RVS in a more different way than you, like for example rvs is suppose to be a simple you vote this person. SOmetimes its more than that which I find scummy, i dont see why someone who is town aligned would put so much effort into a vote thats suppose to be random
-Holy***** i aint calling him ATo i didnt realize that was togs -.-
-What do you think of vaimes and DBS?
-#136 - Idk if i am allowed to answer this question dota and shadow are the ones on that train that worry me, outside of terry's over justified RVS vote he doesnt seem to bad.
#137
-No please no I honestly don't want to think about that right now, i rather focus on the actives than those who aren't being active. In 3 weeks we will have plenty of infromation to decide a good vote on someone who is posting scummy content.
#143
-Is there any reason your ok with this train?
#144
-Why give them the benefit of the doubt? They're all experienced players and should not be ignored due to being on a new site espically since day 1 will last 3 weeks which gives them all quite alot of time to post content if they get scum read thats on them not the site. I honestly just not a fan of this post from you, kinda feel's like u want ms players to pocket you unless i am reading into it wrong.
Everyone
I am always around, just a heads up, I am caught up... and Ill def make a post soon, after I finish up school related stuff. You can quote this post if u have questions for me
@Kamikaze I want you to talk to me about my never put the logs or blacklist up for auction theory. You also seem to have put a fair amount of thought into the set up and I want your opinion on it.
Rereading what's here Shin looks townier than I remembered.
@Yurkin how would you decide if somone was trustworthy, if the game mechanics made you pick someone to trust? What does asking how I would give insight into my alignment?
Whoever I think is town ofc
Sadly not each and every question can be telling.
Don't really like the taking control over the game proposal, the question I asked is low key showing this. If u were scum herew taking that sort of position would be in your plus. From where the disliking of the idea.
Most questions can be telling, like I ask alot of questions to understand peoples mindsets and to low key catch people in slips problem is i do this reagardless of my alignment XD. Anyways my point is the way a question is asked and the reasons why its asked can say alot aobut someones alignment.
@Shin that's not going to cut it. You made a proposal and responding with it's telling to see who lives and dies after outing is not even close to a reason to out people who first voted for an item.
The additional propsal of voting on who can buy it doesn't remotely justify the first one. So try again. Why should people out their bod number of they were the first to vote an item up for auction.
Also why are you questionijg Wisp for asking the same question you did?
And knowing other people's reasons for reading into my votes gives a lot of insight into their motovation.
@Yurkin sure every question can't provide insight, but they all have reasons for being asked. And if yours what solely to implicate that you don't like my "taking control" why not just accuse me?
Idk what to say thats my reasoning, take it or leave it grape XD. I have my reasons for suggesting that proposal, regardless I dont like the idea of players voting on who should be allowed to bid on items.
You seem to think 77 might be underestimating how powerful #1 is so in that situation it would be good from them to out themselves if the item got voted then we could atleast ask them why they voted the item.
Which question?
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Yeah, this makes a ton more sense.
@yurkin: Why do you think grape voted you?
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I think Last might be town? That is probably my most solid read atm.
??? how
Rhand
@Grape/dota: your discussion is the wrong kind of mechanical discussion to have. You’re explaining what you’re expecting scum to do with the auction house. Which will make scum careful not to do that.
Better to keep those ideas to yourself and use them to catch scum later on when they actually did it.
But in the end its better to keep information in the open since we as the town are the uninformed dont you think? Likewise, town can think of this stuff, then so can scum, so its frivolous to say we are giving scum ideas to work with. But I do understand that there are some things better left unsaid... also ur second sentence is mostly wine
Vezo
What's up with DBS's and grape's votes? Did I miss anything?
Why do you need other peoples clarification to come up with a reasoning for their votes???
vote: Vezo for now, until I can dive deeper into this game after I finish some RL stuff
You’re confusing me here.
You’re first saying that it’s better to keep info in the open. You can only be talking about Grape and dota telling us how they expect scum to behave in the auction house.
Then you say you agree some things should be left unsaid. What things do you mean then?
And then, when I explain why saying out loud how they expect scum to behave is better left unsaid, you call that wine?
That feels like a smear to me. Don’t you agree that if game mechanics promote a certain scum behavior, you want scum to commit the behavior so you can catch them do it rather than putting it out in the open before they can commit it, nullifying the whole scumtell?
Why are you announcing temporary votes / even casting them in the first place?
vote: Lastwhisper
Rhand
Its a good enough for me to move out of my rvs vote, dont like how he asked others why Dawn and Grape voted the way they did? Would it not just be better to ask the individuals? I was mainly saying that, you forwarding the idea that telling scum how to use the auction house, would only deter them from doing it, is exactly that its wine... Its literally the definition of wifom
What scum behavior does the auction house put into place? Until we have a better idea of what some of the items do, its hard to say, and even so, some items can both be used by town and scum...
My stance is that, explaining what scum may do is better in the open for those who are also the uninformed
@Wisp why wouldn't you want other people's reasons for their votes? Why would it be suspicious that someone was asking for reasons behind a vote?
What do you mean? Why would Vezo need to ask anyone but the two people who voted, why they voted the way they did?
What's up with DBS's and grape's votes? Did I miss anything? Doesnt sound to me like hes specifically asking you or DBS, but a general question to the group as whole...
or maybe im completely missing the point, and hes actually asking why you and Dawn are garnering votes? haha
also why did you vote DisplayName aka Karote?
And I see what you're saying about Vezok not directly asking, but ehh. He's not really evading asking or doing anything with it. It's just an inquiry, if a bit indirect
What I wrote wasn’t wine. What I was saying is that now whatever scum does becomes wine. So I guess you’re agreeing with me.
And yeh, you missed the point about your Vezok vote. What bothers me isn’t that you vote him, it is that you already say you’re gonna change that vote.
Hmm... ok, Well why Yurkin unless u already answered that?
and true, but I'd rather see his thoughts on your votes, rather than him rehashing he thoughts based on other people's reasoning.
@Rhand MAL uses a lot of lingo in ways that are close enough to be similar to ours in context but be very different meanings. See the earlier discussion about Policy Votes that wasn't remotely similar to what policy votes would be here, but was in a similar context to the way we'd use it.
I'm not usually one to ask for reasons for a vote as I can usually pick them up from context, but in this case the votes made no sense.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
thats the best way to get reactions though
Whats not to understand, the way you came into the game suggesting the mass auction claim should not be used as a means to read you as scum because its the same as someone coming into the game asking for a mass claim. Its bound to happen and we cant just wine ourselves to believe only scum would suggest ***** like that or else we would just be mislynching all the time.
I also said that if people like to follow norms people like me and others might read them as scum if they try to break free from that.
-I clearly stated it depends on how the day 1 goes i dont think it something that should be decided 3 days in, ive yet to see/hear all the benefits, Though i suggest a few ideas of my own in a future post i am sending out. Was too lazy to break up the post.
I aint to fond of giving early reads, espically not on a player ive only been playing with for 2-3 days with very few posts.
I dont agree on that mechanics atleast for the auction should be clarified as soon as possible, that way everyone has the same understanding of what the auction house does and how we're going to go about using it to towns best itnerest. I question how one can think a post comes from town but then not agree with it the latter should normally apply to the other.
Permanently sounds way to strong and lets get to carried away with the speculations here.
If thats what you think the logs do then it be best to give that to town as soon as possible no? I cant see a world where that item getting into scum hands would be anything short of terrifying. I feel like those with weird names shouldnt be barred off by name alone not till we atleast see what they're capable of.
i feel liek it be best for the original voter of an item to out his number if that item gets the most vote. This is better than just too mayn people outting their auction numbers and we will always no who has that item if anything happened that caused that player to seem scummy. Unless you already think 77 is scummy solely on the items.
Now several of the townspeople had impressed me, but I had no leads on those who might be working ill. Were they particularly silver-tongued? I was reminded of the rumors of Nyarlathotep, an imposing man - allegedly from Egypt, but perhaps from a further and stranger place - whose words could convince the most observant man to believe in nonsense and falsehood, and the uneasy thought struck me that such a man (if man he is) could well have shared his talents with others.
Or, perhaps the cultists were among those who lurked at the edges of the crowd. I had noted that some were brief in speech, and furtive of appearance. I am always of the opinion that an honest man need not avoid the eyes of society.
Of course, it is yet early in the day; I must hope that the passing hours give me more of substance to consider.
Been sort of checking up on this thread but haven't read the last page or so super closely.
@Shin read before you ask questions my man. I've stated my opinion on 77 a couple times. I'm pretty sure you have quoted it before.
Anyway super duper strongly disagree with your original voter outs themselves when an item goes to auction house. But I'm going to need you to explain why you think that is a good idea. What gain does town get from it?
As for the logs, yes that would be terrifying. That's why it should never go for auction in a traditional way. It's not like we're obligated to vote for it.
Also 127 is pretty much intelligeble. I don't know who any of it is referring to. Is Ath someone? Without knowing who you're talking about I can't follow any of what you're trying to say there.
"I neither knew nor cared whether my experience was insanity, dreaming, or magic; but was determined to gaze on brilliance and gaiety at any cost. I knew not who I was or what I was, or what my surroundings might be; though as I continued to stumble along I became conscious of a kind of fearsome latent memory that made my progress not wholly fortuitous."
Lastwhisper (2) - Gwendolly, Rhand
Vaimes (2) - Atogaholic, dawningbluesky
yurkin (2) - DisplayName, Grapefruit21
Atogaholic (1) - Prophylaxis
Cyan (1) - KamikazeArchon
DisplayName (1) - yurkin
Prophylaxis (1) - Vaimes
vezokpiraka (1) - Lastwhisper
Not voting: Cyan, Killjoy, Iso, vezokpiraka
Day 1 ends on April 20th at 12:00 PM PST
With 19 players alive, it takes 10 votes to lynch.
ZE all over again...
looking for a new lead. Vaimes seemed happy to vote Proph and disappear, so I wanted to see what a vote on him would do. I'd expect his rvs on Proph was fishing for reactions? someone took the bait and he doesn't seem to care (by his next post). nice to know he appeared when voted on though, I guess.
why do the players remind you of Shinichi? played with him before or...?
I guess some people are starting to understand me in ZE. for good or bad, who knows.
we can never be sure. Grapes isn't someone we can easily read as town, and a recent game is evidence of that (he blinded almost the entire playerbase).
Be grateful, always."
Be grateful, always."
Liking Grape's questions in 67.
Agreed with Rhand in that we should look into anything investigative/restoring sanity for the auction.
I really liked reading Kamikaze's 74; keep up the role playing, it's incredibly enjoyable to read.
Fair enough on the mechanics stuff.
What do you mean by the first sentence (I bolded it)? I've read it like two or three times already and have a hard time understanding it. Is it like "I don't think vezok's idea comes from scum, someone will eventually bring up mechanics discussion, and vezok happened to do it" or something like that?
Ditto with this; I'm with vezok in that I find this post incredibly hard to understand.
Do you think Shinichi and Last are both town with the way they RVS'd each other? Can you go into a little more depth on this, in particular the Last townread? I have him down as making housekeeping comments/fluff but I don't think there's nothing really alignment indicative to his posts right now.
I think it can be worthwhile later in the game, when the gamestate becomes a lot more.. exact, for lack of a better term, and mechanics play a slightly larger role in determining how the game goes. I don't want games to be bogged down in mechanics discussion though because I've lost some games due to that (like Iji Mafia 2, where they lynched Kami when he was town by behavior because of a mechanical action plan that went haywire)
Tell me how asking this question helps you figure out my alignment.
I want to see where your head is at because if you're town then I think we can work pretty well together. Since you're familiar with those two players I want to know if anything specific caught your eye, since while I've played a fair amount with Shinichi I only have like 1-2 games worth of experience with Last.
Let me know what you think of them as Day 1 progresses, then? Keep me updated on the read.
Can you shoot me a link to that scumchat? Feels like it could be some interesting reading considering I have played very little with vezok (he was around when I played, back in the day, but I recall him being more of a 'Scummer).
Liking how DoTA is engaging with Grape so far.
Similar to DoTA, tell me how asking me this question helps you figure out my alignment?
I'm fine with having specific townies we can all collectively trust claim to use specific items, but I don't want that discussion to take up a major part of the day. Not the biggest fan of massclaiming though, I feel like the correct strategy for MTGS Specialties is to treat the game as vanilla/behavioral based until necessary.
Can you explain why? I have him as null now because he's.. not posted much that I consider alignment indicative/he's fluffing and making side comments.
Trying to read Rhand vs Last is making my head spin at 1 AM at night; going to look over it more tomorrow.
Can agree with Kami in that Shinichi's 126/127.. again make my head spin but it feels as though he is making more nuanced comments about the gamestate than what I expect from him as scum, though @Shinichi, can you answer my questions in post 53? You kind of skipped over them.
Ath is apparently Atogaholic (who you may also know as Togs), I assume this is some sort of mobile autocorrect.
What do you think about him being at 4 votes, though? What's your opinion on his wagon so far?
If you think that shadow is not looking townie, then why not vote him? Is your read on Vaimes stronger?
----------
Pretty much caught up with the gamestate, I have a bunch of weak townreads (Grape/Rhand/Shinichi/DoTA/Kami) but nothing so far has really stood out to me yet in terms of slam-dunk scum? Going to try and give this game another read-through tomorrow and post my thoughts but I feel like a third of the playerbase is lurking and we should.. poke sticks at them.
Unvote, vote Cyan
duuuuuuuuude come on and play
given how ZE town ignored the lurkers for the first couple of game days and they ended up being scum I want to hold their feet to the fire early and often
feels like it'll help me get a better grasp on the gamestate given that i've been writing most of these posts midnight at my time
sleep time
killjoy asked shinichi here:
this will be fun to read tomorrow
something good was salvaged out of that trainwreck of a game
Agree on poking lurkers by the way. You should come poke Yurkin with me!
choo choo
also I'm up for like, 5 more minutes if you want to talk about anything while I'm here grape?
for anyone not in the know: Shinichi/Lastwhisper/dawningbluesky/Gwendolly/DisplayName/yurkin come from MyAnimeList, the land of WEEBS, where the games are much shorter and less analytical than MTGS. i kind of started playing on the site two years ago because i wanted to play on a site without meta + playing on new sites is fun for me. and i inadvertently invited some cross culture pollination here. just to give people a heads up as to why there are a lot of newer players in this game
If there’s scum on that wagon, it’s probably Shadow.
I have a light townread on Terry for the natural reactions on my auction idea, and on DoTA for a bit of mindmeld.
Shadow hasn’t posted enough to get a real read there. But if I’m right about all the town reads I have now, then the lurkers almost have to be scum.
I'll try to post later today.
(Someone asked me a question. Somewhere. I didn't completely forget it.)
Wtf does that mean >3>
Ur a good player but so fustrating to read into i swear. Letting other people handle the rest of the work doesnt seem like something a town player would suggest. What do you atleast think of the new players that you havent seen nor played with before.
I really dont believe thats gonna stop them, since you've kinda created a wine that makes it seems like the next person to vote for the logs is possible scum. Btw why arent u asking me a question like this when he's been interacting with me the most.
Rhand has a point thought i mean I know its norm in MS to announce a vote may be temporary but in a place where people arent used to that like MTG its similar to leaving a backdoor open which is normally a scum trait.
its an rvs vote does it really require reasons?
Btw why does it really matter
whats wrong with having the player who originally voted an item out themselves, that way we know who has the item and alot can be said if the player lives or dies.
I just rather that idea than having us vote on who should be allowed to buy an item, it leads to biasness and manipulation dont you think.
i was refering to **Atogaholic** when i stated ATH but i confused o with H XD. I was saying i dont believe him announce he has an ability that correlates with the auction house as wrong because the same thing happened in zero escape. Both scum and town had abilities that correlated with the AB rounds so i am sure the same can be said here.
The additional propsal of voting on who can buy it doesn't remotely justify the first one. So try again. Why should people out their bod number of they were the first to vote an item up for auction.
Also why are you questionijg Wisp for asking the same question you did?
And knowing other people's reasons for reading into my votes gives a lot of insight into their motovation.
@Yurkin sure every question can't provide insight, but they all have reasons for being asked. And if yours what solely to implicate that you don't like my "taking control" why not just accuse me?
and I'm here if anyone wants to talk
Be grateful, always."
How is proposing that we collectively as a town decide who gets the logs taking control of the game?
Though you admitting it was shade rather than deflecting it is a good look.
I am always around, just a heads up, I am caught up... and Ill def make a post soon, after I finish up school related stuff. You can quote this post if u have questions for me
Most questions can be telling, like I ask alot of questions to understand peoples mindsets and to low key catch people in slips problem is i do this reagardless of my alignment XD. Anyways my point is the way a question is asked and the reasons why its asked can say alot aobut someones alignment.
Idk what to say thats my reasoning, take it or leave it grape XD. I have my reasons for suggesting that proposal, regardless I dont like the idea of players voting on who should be allowed to bid on items.
You seem to think 77 might be underestimating how powerful #1 is so in that situation it would be good from them to out themselves if the item got voted then we could atleast ask them why they voted the item.
Which question?