Yeh it’s POE and the order doesn’t matter all that much. It KJ doesn’t die somehow we just lynch him toMorrow.
What bugs me is that tom seemingly doesn’t want to be townconfirmed.
Tom, it's not just about you, though. I'm fully willing to accept you as town, even if Cantrip flips scum, especially after that last answer that you gave.
Like..in my heart of hearts, I don't really think Cantrip is scum here. I believe his claimed role. It really has the ring of truth. But that's it. And I just don't think that's enough at this point.
Also I agree with Rhand, being confirmed town is amazing.
Unrelatedly, KJ's theoretical bodyguard is only going to work if it's higher priority than the mafia NK. Which it is, normally, but it feels like we're just opening ourselves up to scum interference here. Again.
I think that we're trying to play this too tricky. We just need to lynch the person that is most likely to be scum, and move on. And that person is overwhelmingly KJ. Unvote, Vote KJ
Not a lot of time, but someone asked if I would have been seen N2. My ability says that I learn if the players I targeted the previous Day are in another QT together. It doesn't mention "target" at all, so maybe not.
Could you ask?
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I think Cantrip and KJ have pretty equal chances of being mafia. It's bothersome that neither of them are doing anything to push another lynch, especially if the PoE is as tight as it appears.
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so as anyone noticed that it almost feels like, people are one up'ng each others votes, to keep cantri and killjoy tied? or maybe im seeing things? could mean one of them really is scum
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Okay guise? The "advantage" we gain from lynching a townie in the POE is less relevant than that of resolving a 100% opposing dichotomy as with dawning/KJ. I want that out of the way in daylight to avoid shenanigans, and to inform terry on who the best target to vig tonight is. Because if Killjoy flips town, I want to see dawning vigged and out of the game.
@Wiffles: I disagree with DBS being vigged right now. That can wait one more night, so that we can discuss it more. DBS has been pretty spot on behavior wise, and it's very hard for me to see him just straight up lying here to get KJ lynched. The town has too many free kills availatfor that to ever be a sound strategy.
Case for lynching Cantrip:
>Lots of contradictions in claim (neighborizing townreads instead of potential scumbuddies, mistakes in when parity cop was used)
>Virtually no scumhunting the entire game
>Should have been modkilled
>Will probably die anyway Case for not lynching Cantrip:
>Wuffles says so.
Case for lynching Killjoy:
>Dichotomy with dawn (most likely scum unless the real scum interfered)
>Behaviorally scummy (not pushing dawn aside from "she lied", not pushing anyone, appears to waiting out the lynch) Case for not lynching Killjoy:
>Might encourage dawn to be shot at night if he flips town when we want to discuss the circumstances more
>Bodyguard (???)
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Okay guise? The "advantage" we gain from lynching a townie in the POE is less relevant than that of resolving a 100% opposing dichotomy as with dawning/KJ. I want that out of the way in daylight to avoid shenanigans, and to inform terry on who the best target to vig tonight is. Because if Killjoy flips town, I want to see dawning vigged and out of the game.
This is exactly why I don’t want KJ lynched. I do not believe dawn is auto-scum if KJ flips town and want to be sure we have a chance to talk about this.
@rhand just don't think the slot makes sense with proph more than anything.
Like, "scumgemma made neighborhoods with me and a buddy twice and then faked a result that cleared me when he flipped" seems way less likely than just... town
I think dawn makes more sense as town just because that's really the only explanation we have for the missing kill.
If kj were to flip town id still want her flip just to figure out what happened but not necessarily because I think she'd flip scum I guess.
But she's claimed at -3 sanity so scum still couldn't use the mask without flipping her for us or outing her...
So I'm kinda down with not shooting her regardless? I think?
I'm expecting a kj scumflip though and then grape should give her sanity and Terry should just shoot RE to hopefully end it but cantrip (or grape if I remember Joes reads right) are probably fine too
Sometimes scum do things precisely because it's not expected of them
Night killing someone they scumread hard the day before
Pushing a super-incorrect theory right before a flip so it appears they're clueless
Neighborizing a buddy (or claiming to)
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I also find it interesting the people fighting the Cantrip lynch are those who've been neighborized (except Cyan). Like, why exactly is there so much of difference between what they've said in chat compared to what they've said here?
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But I mean...are we seriously going to let her off the hook if KJ flips town? Because it would mean that her result was strictly incorrect, and...are we really willing to let a dichotomy like that slide?! Feels wrong.
My reasons for thinking Gemmtrip is town is simple.
They haven't been active enough to make up lies as convincing as this. They can neighbourise, and at no stage has cantrip in the QT said he should be kept alive. He knows he's in the POE but like...meh? I'd much rather get actual factual inconsistencies resolved in the light of day over vigging.
Plus,if the Mafia still have another redirector (that's pretty much the only way I could see both DBS and KJ flipping town - not likely at all) then that's all the more reason to ensure that they don't get to protect themselves from an NK tonight.
But I mean...are we seriously going to let her off the hook if KJ flips town? Because it would mean that her result was strictly incorrect, and...are we really willing to let a dichotomy like that slide?! Feels wrong.
I think eventually it'll have to be taken care of (like tomorrow's lynch) if nothing new shows up. But if there's a chance we could get results from who targeted her last night for the kill (assuming that happened, which I think is pretty likely), then it'd be hasty to shoot her straight away.
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And Wuffles, you realize there's a scum chat? I've seen a scum not post anything day 1 in thread but still be posting in the scum chat. They were replaced pretty quickly but lurking is a super common thing for scum.
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@rhand: Short of scum shenanigans Dawn is for sure one. I'm still paranoid that Tom is one that just doesn't have access to the scumchat but thats all just paranoia. One of the people wanting to vote me has to be scum. RE is acting weird in a way I do not like.
Cyan might still be an SK. Might not though.
If Wuffles didn't take the Truth pot I'd be scumreading him.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Sorry KJ but that's super omgus here. I think it's pretty obvious how rusty I am from my 8 year+ break from forum mafia, but yeah, nah, don't be that guy.
I agree with you that either you or DBS are scum. Definitely. The possibility that there was a second redirection ability in the scum after Proph flipped is not zero, but it's pretty close to zero imo. Enough so that Occam's razor says one of you is lying. Honestly, I don't care which of you or DBS flip first to confirm the other, but the town seems to vastly prefer you to dbs sooo yeah, sorry if you're town but you still have to die.
Well, Proph's ability was one-shot, so they could have something else.
Honestly though, I think that the simplest explanation is the correct one here, which is that KJ is lying.
@SJT: Please don't use the Staff to kill DBS if KJ flips town. That's something that we need to have a real conversation about, including looking over DBS' posts etc thus far this game. Worst case scenario, just save the Staff use for tomorrow night. Though honestly, killing Cantrip with it seems fine, that slot is pretty ideal for a vig shot at this point.
This is what I don't like, Tom defending cat, and cyan telling us not to kill Dawn if kj flips town... Like if you two would just stop talking, I'd probably make a vote already lol... Both you and Tom sound so agenda based right now, and I could give two ****s how confirmed u are cyan
I don't have an 'agenda'. I just want the town to make the best decision possible. All of the time. DBS is not an auto-kill if KJ flips town, not when you consider the various unknown variables in this game. And if we do need to kill DBS, it can be done tomorrow. Even in the worst case scenario where Terry gets NKed tonight, the town still doesn't lose the staff. Either he'll will it to another townie or it'll fall on the ground and the town will vote it to one.
We can have one more night of caution before we start just piling up bodies. It's not that much to ask.
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What bugs me is that tom seemingly doesn’t want to be townconfirmed.
Heh that’s weird. I am the complete opposite. I love being confirmed.
Like..in my heart of hearts, I don't really think Cantrip is scum here. I believe his claimed role. It really has the ring of truth. But that's it. And I just don't think that's enough at this point.
Also I agree with Rhand, being confirmed town is amazing.
I think that we're trying to play this too tricky. We just need to lynch the person that is most likely to be scum, and move on. And that person is overwhelmingly KJ. Unvote, Vote KJ
I won’t lynch KJ unless terry promises to shoot Cantrip.
And I still think that having a chance of having a protective around at Night is good.
vote: Cantripmancer
Could you ask?
I don't hate it. though any kind of confirmations make more bored of a game, like if I'm scum and knows who are town. be Mr. Wuffs
Be grateful, always."
I wish I could share your sentiment but unfortunately if they are both town, surely I would not live long enough to enjoy the unexpected twist.
We lynch the person most likely to be scum, period. I'm not interested in a cantrip lynch today.
I'm half asleep
That's why its in a spoiler
@tom: do you have a real reasoning for your Cantrip townread?
I was wondering if Cantrip was not just also town.
>Lots of contradictions in claim (neighborizing townreads instead of potential scumbuddies, mistakes in when parity cop was used)
>Virtually no scumhunting the entire game
>Should have been modkilled
>Will probably die anyway
Case for not lynching Cantrip:
>Wuffles says so.
Case for lynching Killjoy:
>Dichotomy with dawn (most likely scum unless the real scum interfered)
>Behaviorally scummy (not pushing dawn aside from "she lied", not pushing anyone, appears to waiting out the lynch)
Case for not lynching Killjoy:
>Might encourage dawn to be shot at night if he flips town when we want to discuss the circumstances more
>Bodyguard (???)
This is exactly why I don’t want KJ lynched. I do not believe dawn is auto-scum if KJ flips town and want to be sure we have a chance to talk about this.
Grape because I think RE is town. It’s POE.
If Cantrip is town, then who do you think is scum?
Like, "scumgemma made neighborhoods with me and a buddy twice and then faked a result that cleared me when he flipped" seems way less likely than just... town
If kj were to flip town id still want her flip just to figure out what happened but not necessarily because I think she'd flip scum I guess.
But she's claimed at -3 sanity so scum still couldn't use the mask without flipping her for us or outing her...
So I'm kinda down with not shooting her regardless? I think?
I'm expecting a kj scumflip though and then grape should give her sanity and Terry should just shoot RE to hopefully end it but cantrip (or grape if I remember Joes reads right) are probably fine too
Night killing someone they scumread hard the day before
Pushing a super-incorrect theory right before a flip so it appears they're clueless
Neighborizing a buddy (or claiming to)
They haven't been active enough to make up lies as convincing as this. They can neighbourise, and at no stage has cantrip in the QT said he should be kept alive. He knows he's in the POE but like...meh? I'd much rather get actual factual inconsistencies resolved in the light of day over vigging.
Plus,if the Mafia still have another redirector (that's pretty much the only way I could see both DBS and KJ flipping town - not likely at all) then that's all the more reason to ensure that they don't get to protect themselves from an NK tonight.
I think eventually it'll have to be taken care of (like tomorrow's lynch) if nothing new shows up. But if there's a chance we could get results from who targeted her last night for the kill (assuming that happened, which I think is pretty likely), then it'd be hasty to shoot her straight away.
Like a pretty strong redirector.
Lol I read that post too quickly
Cyan might still be an SK. Might not though.
If Wuffles didn't take the Truth pot I'd be scumreading him.
I agree with you that either you or DBS are scum. Definitely. The possibility that there was a second redirection ability in the scum after Proph flipped is not zero, but it's pretty close to zero imo. Enough so that Occam's razor says one of you is lying. Honestly, I don't care which of you or DBS flip first to confirm the other, but the town seems to vastly prefer you to dbs sooo yeah, sorry if you're town but you still have to die.
Honestly though, I think that the simplest explanation is the correct one here, which is that KJ is lying.
@SJT: Please don't use the Staff to kill DBS if KJ flips town. That's something that we need to have a real conversation about, including looking over DBS' posts etc thus far this game. Worst case scenario, just save the Staff use for tomorrow night. Though honestly, killing Cantrip with it seems fine, that slot is pretty ideal for a vig shot at this point.
We can have one more night of caution before we start just piling up bodies. It's not that much to ask.