Yeah, no ***** I don't want to claim. I'm glad you noticed how obvious I was making that. One of my abilities is way less useful if claimed and the other will get claimed after I put it up for auction when I run out of capacity to use it. (it's an item ability).
I'm not re-routing until I have had a chance to do what I originally promised (to retread Proph) but when I do, at this stage it will probably be vezok.
Yeah, but if you don't want to claim, *why are you softing*? At 3 votes? It makes zero sense, and it looks like a wolf trying to dissolve their wagon while trying to wriggle out of actually having to claim.
And if you're waiting to do a reread or iso to move your vote, what's the possible harm in leaving it on someone you're scumreading while you do that? Unvoting someone for no reason other than "I can't get them lynched toDay" muddies the vote counts and misrepresents your position on them. What's the actual benefit to unvoting there?
@KJ sure so why I jumped to scum reading you is because the reasoning was delayed and I disagreed with it. If your original post had included it I wouldn't think it was scummy. But because it was a later justification and I felt it was brazenly untrue that it made you scum.
That was magnified by the fact that most of the posts that could be described using the tone you used happened after your post where you expressed the town read. I thought his earliest posts were his most manic. Now granted that could easily be read as sincere.
Anyway as you said ne misunderstanding your wording isn't your problem. It's mine. And I've moved you back to my null pile. I'm still slightly pinged by your early town read on Wisp but nothing like I was earlier.
I... don't believe you. I don't think you had that read.You jumped up my ass way to quick without doing the due diligence trying to figure out my motives.
@Shadow: Yeah, I'm thinking I'm going to ISO Grape for sure. It won't be a PBPA Osie-style because NEVER AGAIN but it'll be thorough.
LEt me explain a bit of my thought process on this. I skimmed this post catching up and I skimmed it looking for a response to my push on Killjoy. I'm basically screaming for people to Lynch killjoy and he's just ignoring it like it isn't happening. That's what I try to do when I'm scum. On top of that, there is nothing of substance in this post besides a weak OMGUS.
I just read Vezok's ISO, and that gave me a whole different look than what I thought I saw earlier.
His reads are not fleshed out, and while I remembered him asking good questions, that apparently was just 1 post. Apart from that he hasn't done much but fighting with Iso and calling Atog / Silver scum without really explaining why. He also has been townclearing some people.
The scumreads and townclears he voiced earlier completely don't mesh with the statement I just quoted.
@Vezok: how do you go from having scum- and townreads to wanting to wagon nearly anyone?
vote: Vezok
I still think Wuffles is scum. Leaning scum on Last and KJ, and have my eye on Shadow and Iso.
Townreading Terry and Kami, town leaning Proph, RE (because of Shinichi), Grape, Dota, tom and Silver.
Neutral on Cyan, Cantrip, Atog and DBS (who I think is town if Wuffles is scum, otherwise still lean scum)
I wished Vezok's flip would give info on Iso, but with his tendency to bus, he should really get passed that potion no matter what Vezok flips (if we lynch Vezok that is).
What do you think about making Vezo drink the potion?
Eh. Unvote Kami obviously isn't one of the lynch targets today.
WHAT!? How does that matter? Only scum think like that. I want you to have a chance to prove yourself, but this post right here pretty much assures me that you're scum.
I think the post from silver against wuffles is distancing.
Quote for me the parts that you think come specifically from a distancing angle.
It's the feeling of the post itself. Rhetorical questions that don't actually matter and talking about "muddying" the votecount. It's just enough to sound like an accusation, but enough to be able to backtrack.
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As in he never accuses Wuffles of being scum, but makes it seem so.
Is... that not also what you've done?
"Distancing", in common parlance, is only possible between two villains; neither can be innocent for it to be "distancing". So by use of that term, you imply suspicion of Wuffles as well. But you do not say so explicitly; you draw primary attention to another; and you vote neither of them. Why?
listed only those I suspect, and he isn't one of them.
1. if you see his VC, his 1st vote (technically) was on Cyan, someone I also suspect. his 2nd vote was on Kamikaze, during our argument - it makes more sense for scum to be the second one on the scene, not the first. looking at Cyan's VC, his tracks are not as 'lost' (even voted Iso twice) besides being sheep-like, and his latest vote is now on Wuffles - it's like a subtle OMGUS for that earlier vote on him, and it's opportunistic (voting for softclaim).
2. Wuffles has been the focus of attention long enough, with hardly a change in course, that there's a chance he is town. scum would bus/push or spread confusion/shade elsewhere if one of their team stayed in the position of Contempt/Hate for too long. the traction in focus on Wuffles feels like that of town. (lol I sound like ZE here)
@Dawning: I’m more specifically interested in how you find it helpful? Are you tracking patterns, looking for vote jumping, too many/too few, etc?
I see. overall, I'm looking at the liberty shown in voting. less or more jumps isn't as relevant in longer phases, so the reasoning is more important (the votes ore linked so I can refer to the reasons). town votes are more liberal/interactive and flows along with their reads, whereas scum votes somehow gain traction faster, due to agenda-based banding up on the uninformed's fears.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Actually I’m feeling some pressure to not be replaced out, so before I start doing anything else I’m going to start with my readslist as it is right now.
Terry - He’s town lol
Grape I see some people discussing grape like his alignment is up in the air, and I’m honestly surprised he’s not a consensus townread by now. I mean if you look at the raw STATS, he’s the highest poster in this game by a really wide margin (especially if you don’t count Tom), in comparison he almost has the same number of posts as he did in the pirates game despite the thread being half as long. Literally none of his posts have been fluff either. I don’t see him as capable of maintaining this level of engagement as scum, especially when he has admitted he has a hard time keeping up with content as scum. Basically, he’s obvtown because he’s putting in more effort than you.
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RE - This town lean is a carryover from when she was Shinichi. I know she’s willing to communicate and work together as town and her posts are more coherent than her predecessors overall so that’s probably a good thing.
Silver - Just want to say the string of posts where he defends me was very amusing to read. I don’t want to townread him off of just white knighting me, but I have to question what he gains from doing that as scum when I wasn’t even in the thread, plus the way he posted sounded like he still wanted to keep up communication with those he was disagreeing with. I like where his head is so it’s a town lean from me.
Worth noting at least that grapefruit expressed some suspicion of this slot when yurkin was piloting it, noting to myself to look into for later. If both silver and grape are town and on the same page it could be very productive for us.
Rhand - Carryover from before.
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Iso - I was townleaning him for his bravado but apparently people have been saying this is something he does as scum ? If so that invalidates my reason for reading him so he’s null to me now and I’ll have to figure out a new way to get a grasp of his alignment.
Phraze - I tried to read her, I really did, but I can’t point to any of her behavior as anything she wouldn’t do as town. She probably is just town but I don’t want to just write her slot off.
Last - Last has the potential to be very engaged in his games and I’m not seeing it here. He did say he was busy until after this weekend but if he keeps up his current level it would be uncharacteristic of what I normally see from him. We’ll have to see if he steps it up.
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Killjoy - I did an ISO to see everything he posted in the week I was gone. He LITERALLY still hasn’t expressed a single new read, the closest he got was saying there could be scum among me/grape who were pushing him but he’s been entirely fixated on defending himself and hasn’t contributed anything to gamesolving. He seems to be missing the point too that the reason he’s suspicious is his lack of real reads other than that arbitrary one on last and he sounds like he’s just doubling down on that. Anyone who hasn’t already should take a look at his ISO and tell me if you see anything different.
Proph - Yeah I lean scum on him, to put it bluntly his catchup post was nice, but a post like that is something he’s capable of doing as scum, what’s a lot harder for him is getting actively engaged since he plays this game to be town. I actually wasn’t a fan of the townread he expressed of me in his post, I feel like I’m very easy for scum!proph to find reasons to townread because we have similar ideas of how to approach games. However in my memory proph as town usually grills me in the games we play together, and he grills me hard.
Also yes I know he is justifiably busy but as I said, nowadays most of his game he plays as busy!proph and town!busy!proph usually does post a lot more than this. I switched my vote because not only because he could be scum but also if he is town, he’s too valuable of a resource to let him get by like this. Call it burden of proph-iciency if you will.
Dota - He had good presence early on but then when you go back to read him almost all of his points were about mechanics and he hasn’t said anything since then. It seems kind of indicative to me of a stronger town player who has difficulty getting their head into the game as scum. Would like to pressure this slot to say more.
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Anyone I didn’t list I need to pay attention to / interact with more. I’m aware that’s a lot of people but hey I have been mia for a week.
Any questions you wanna ask me please ask, I could use the help in getting re-engaged in this game. Next steps for me are to respond to specific things people pinged me about earlier and to find stuff to ask my top town / scum reads.
2. Wuffles has been the focus of attention long enough, with hardly a change in course, that there's a chance he is town. scum would bus/push or spread confusion/shade elsewhere if one of their team stayed in the position of Contempt/Hate for too long. the traction in focus on Wuffles feels like that of town. (lol I sound like ZE here)
He had no votes cast against him a mere two days ago.
I have read that there are places where the passage of time is a strange thing, at times stretched and thin and at others rushing rapidly; but we are not in those accursed locales. If time itself is distorted in this very town-hall, we have greater matters of concern than I had expected! But nay, I do not think it has. Why, then, do you speak as if this attention has been bearing on Wuffles for so long, rather than the brief and sudden spark that it has been in truth?
To say nothing of the fact that I just pointed out vezok's words, which could themselves be the very attempt to push attention elsewhere that you claim has not occurred.
Any questions you wanna ask me please ask, I could use the help in getting re-engaged in this game. Next steps for me are to respond to specific things people pinged me about earlier and to find stuff to ask my top town / scum reads.
guess I'll consider you more as a catch-up player.
I can sorta understand your vote on Proph as he is the one with most things to read off of, in your scumreads. can you explain to me what you don't like about his townread on you? (sorry if I missed it) he's kinda in my blind spot, since I've been more focused on Vezok and others.
another question:
what are the most significant happenings you can remember from this thread? and what impressions did you get of those involved?
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
2. Wuffles has been the focus of attention long enough, with hardly a change in course, that there's a chance he is town. scum would bus/push or spread confusion/shade elsewhere if one of their team stayed in the position of Contempt/Hate for too long. the traction in focus on Wuffles feels like that of town. (lol I sound like ZE here)
He had no votes cast against him a mere two days ago.
I have read that there are places where the passage of time is a strange thing, at times stretched and thin and at others rushing rapidly; but we are not in those accursed locales. If time itself is distorted in this very town-hall, we have greater matters of concern than I had expected! But nay, I do not think it has. Why, then, do you speak as if this attention has been bearing on Wuffles for so long, rather than the brief and sudden spark that it has been in truth?
To say nothing of the fact that I just pointed out vezok's words, which could themselves be the very attempt to push attention elsewhere that you claim has not occurred.
I'm focused more on votes, with behavior as a support (not the base) of my readings.
while I can consider the timing in Wuffles replacing in, and Yurkin's disappearance, the focus on that slot has stayed at that stagnant level I would consider town. if a scum slot was gonna replace out, wouldn't it be better to excuse suspicion till replacement? few have expressed interest in going after lurkers, and when Grape brought Yurkin up it wasn't pushed away. I did try to probe into the reasons that he suspected Yurkin, but that was the most that happened - and it actually attracted attention, not detracted, from that slot. Wuffles can be sorted out later, if re-evaluation is necessary, but for now, I would say his posting style has been consistent with his voting pattern (uncertain type).
also, do you think Cyan is town? he voted Wuffles on the basis of softclaiming, and it looks lazy to me....the kind of vote that scum would give town.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
@Dawn: So you're voting me for 'sheep votes'. Was I sheep voting when I was the first person to be suspicious of Atog? Was I sheep voting when I voted Iso? Was I sheep voting when I spoke out against the Vezok wagon? Wait so..when exactly WAS I sheep voting?
Silver's recent posts come across as very..familar(I think this is the word I'm looking for) with Iso. If one of them is scum, I would absolutely expect the other to be as well. Can someone remind me whom Silver replaced in for?
Quote from Vezok »
I think the post from silver against wuffles is distancing.
I am not sure so sure about this, though it's possible. I do agree that Silver's post to Wuffles comes across as just looking for an excuse to vote him, though. Which is scummy in and of itself. The post in question being:
Quote from Silver »
re: Wuffles
This reads exactly like "I'm softing because I came under some pressure and it will totally make me look townie. I promise my abilities are confirmable, and one of them is even completely impossible to use in a way that benefits the scum team! But you'll have to take my word for it because I don't actually want to claim."
So KJ promised a thing was going to happen. I'd really it rather happen in the next 48 hours so it doesn't completely derail the EoD.
1. You gravely overestimate my persuasive abilties. 2. I still intend to ISO you AT SOME POINT... but this post specifically makes me think you might be town because it's kind of a weird think for scum to think. Scum don't generally think this.
I'd perhaps be willing to vote for vezok. I'm currently null reading him.What I need to do is sit down and thoroughly read this game again but I just don't have the time right now. Stupid work.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Vezok - I don't think silver is scum.
Silver - I ****ed up. I accidentally misrepresented myself. If I caught someone else doing that this game I wouldn't let them off the hook for it. Ergo I can't expect people to clear me based on my behavior; all I can do is signal that the mechanics of my role will confirm me as town if required, but the problem is that I am less useful to the town if my role mechanics are revealed. But I can catch scum with it if they don't know what it does.
I don't know how to be any more transparent than that. I can confirm myself at any point through my role and the mechanics of this game, but my usefulness diminishes once I do. Take it or leave it, that's what I got.
@Dawn: So you're voting me for 'sheep votes'. Was I sheep voting when I was the first person to be suspicious of Atog? Was I sheep voting when I voted Iso? Was I sheep voting when I spoke out against the Vezok wagon? Wait so..when exactly WAS I sheep voting?
Silver's recent posts come across as very..familar(I think this is the word I'm looking for) with Iso. If one of them is scum, I would absolutely expect the other to be as well. Can someone remind me whom Silver replaced in for?
your votes:
1. Atogs is considered rvs.
2. Iso is a defense of Vezok(?). and there was a disagreement between Silver and Iso, before you entered with a vote. (can you explain what made Vezok low-hanging fruit / easy target? what felt fake about Iso?)
3. Last was only reasoned as "textbook basic scum play", and "minor suspicion". 2nd vote on wagon.
4. Iso was based off a hypothetical and "Actually that makes tons of sense to me". (what correlation with Vezok made Iso a priority?)
5. Wuffles was for softclaiming. 3rd vote on the wagon.
I guess you were solo on Iso in VC, but they were more like opportunistic jibes rather than valid reasons. you also weren't committed to your votes, or tried to get a feel of those you voted for. probably need to find a new word for it, but those are as unexplained as sheep votes.
Silver replaced Yurkin. and do you think this is mafia interaction?
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
1)Do you know what RVS is? It's not RVS when you state an actual reason for voting someone that clearly is not random. Also, just for your information, I almost never RVS vote, and actively look to cast a serious vote as soon as possible. Plus my first post was like 300 posts into the game or something, how can you actually believe people are still random voting at that point?
2)Iso is not JUST a defense of Vezok, that is just tangentially related. I feel like I laid out my suspicion of Iso clearly, but I'm willing to re-visit it after Silver is resolved(especially since I really think Silver and Iso could both be scum). Also, do you really not understand why Vezok would be low hanging fruit? Have you been in a game where Vezok didn't get wagoned Day 1, regardless of his alignment?
3)I wasn't paying attention to who else was voting Last. I'm willing to explain what I found suspicious by him at a later time. I really don't want to distract from what I think is the best available wagon(Silver) with so few days left.
4)My follow up vote on Iso does make sense, I think. At least from my perspective of A)not thinking Vezok is scum but also wanting to reconcile the lack of action against him from the rest of the playerbase.
5)It was more the way Wuffles went about it, but yeah this was a vote where I followed other people's lead. It happens.
6)Yes, I absolutely think that can be a scum/scum interaction. Does it really look like T/T or T/S to you?
@Terry: It's easy to hit a home run when the pitch is an underhanded lob. Which is exactly what this post by Vezok was:
Quote from Vezok »
@tery: Silver makes few posts and the ones that are made don't really reflect anything about what he thinks. He only pops in to respond to questions talk about me. I'm not really seeing any drive to try to scum hunt.
Proph and atog making the same effort based read on me is creeping me out. Even the wording is very similar.
@DBS so you do look at it in larger chronological order (as in wagons as they form relative to counter wagons)? Tha makes a lot more sense to me.
On ths Yurkin read I understand you now. I did it because I felt reactions to my post might be even more valuable than the read itself. And in a way they were. I got some insight into Vezok (his reaction to it is the towniest thing he's done all game) and to you.
Also if I was just tunneling to keep my head down I never would have pushed tom over his Wisp read. Granted I'm clearly not trying to keep my head down.
@Killjoy ahhh I misunderstood. I thought you meant something mechanical was happening. If it's a proper ISO disregard my comment.
@Cyan I can see what you're getting at with Silver. It feels like he should have voted Wuffles in that post. I think I'd prefer lynching Vezok and making Silver drink the potion to trying to build a wagon on him at this stage. Also Atog's point about me and Silver being valuable if we're town and on the same page is all kinds of sketchy. Right now I could easily see a team of Silver, atog, one of wuffles/Iso and x to fill. I can also see tom and Wisp together. Vezok doesn't really tie to anyone, just has been floundering and individually scummy without much of an agenda.
K not sure how to say this without coming off dickish so I'm just gonna dive in.
That dawning solving looks like garbage to me.
And, like, it usually does... I've seen her be right before but based on the logic presented it's never looked like anything but blind luck
So I'm not really sure how to read into her alignment from it, other than to say she looks the same as ever.
I like the grape v vezok process I think? Or at least I like that it's happening and some of it isn't the worst.
The wufflesthisgame/lastwhisperinZE analogy looks real forced though. It's one of the few bits of her thinking I managed to actually follow in ze and it doesn't apply at all.
Also find her cyan push to be terrible even for her.
Still no individual read, but lots of roadmap to associative reads once we get flips.
@grape don't actually hate the me/last w/w read
Off the top of my head my most likely buddies would be 1-2 of [last/iso/proph] and the rest in the people im not deigning to read yet.
Silver - I ****ed up. I accidentally misrepresented myself. If I caught someone else doing that this game I wouldn't let them off the hook for it. Ergo I can't expect people to clear me based on my behavior; all I can do is signal that the mechanics of my role will confirm me as town if required, but the problem is that I am less useful to the town if my role mechanics are revealed. But I can catch scum with it if they don't know what it does.
I don't know how to be any more transparent than that. I can confirm myself at any point through my role and the mechanics of this game, but my usefulness diminishes once I do. Take it or leave it, that's what I got.
Softing is being the opposite of being transparent. That's what I've been saying since Vezok did it.
@Grapefruit: I didn't make a post between these two posts by you; would you care to reconcile them? Because the first post looks like a lean town read, and the second post looks an awful lot like an excuse to jump on my wagon later if it picks up traction without actually giving a scum read.
Also I've explained my Yurkin read. Just because you don't find it compelling doesn't mean it's unexplained. And I haven't dropped it (as in I'm still pinged by it) just been swayed by my stated recent observations on Silver's behavior.
@Cyan I can see what you're getting at with Silver. It feels like he should have voted Wuffles in that post. I think I'd prefer lynching Vezok and making Silver drink the potion to trying to build a wagon on him at this stage. Also Atog's point about me and Silver being valuable if we're town and on the same page is all kinds of sketchy. Right now I could easily see a team of Silver, atog, one of wuffles/Iso and x to fill. I can also see tom and Wisp together. Vezok doesn't really tie to anyone, just has been floundering and individually scummy without much of an agenda.
Silver you didn't but I actually read Cyan's post closely and it started to make sense to me. You're not my top scum read (not even close to it) but you have some things that stick out to me. Which is why I think you're a good potion candidate.
@tom I really only suspect you if Wisp is also scum. Wisp can be scum independently of you, but I have a very hard time seeing you be scum if he's town. I don't see Proph as a buddy for you, Iso makes sense too. I also kind of like Cyan as a buddy for you but I'm reading him as town. I could see you, Cyan, and Wisp.
Ok so due to unforeseen events, I am not going to re-quote the posts I had originally quoted, and instead color coat players and say what I wanted to say.
Secondly, I want to apologize for my rather confrontational posting earlier... wasnt my attention to become rumanshi 2.0...
Proph
What was this question you wanted me to answer?
Shadow
Normally I do, wanted to try something new, and accidentally closed the tab...
RE
#903
What do you mean by, "I dont think scum!shadow is someone you catch through individual posts?, where did this come from?
Vez
#910 Because terry asked me to but why tho?
and in a post below I believe #912, u say hes neutral, so that makes even less sense, I mean I agree that there should be more wagons, but your vote should still be somewhere that you is a scum lean, otherwise why create that train?
RE
#916
Kinda weird how you voted Proph before explaining why, I mean I might just being arguing semantics here, but it just comes off as weird... and also I kinda agree with Proph in a way
Rhand
#917 almost too scummy to be scum
lol? but I guess u saved urself in the post below...
Cyan
#921
What exactly has stood out to you? you voted me and then unvoted me because of Tom, unless I am mistaken? are you afraid to make your own reads?
Phraze
#922
hmm, I agree I did get a little defensive, but did Cyan not do the same? How should I have sounded? and I stand by my post, that Cyan seems out of touch with the game, it feels like hes posting just for the sake of posting. Also were you not iffy about Cyan in a way, you even went back to voting him after this post, so whats the problem here? How I respond? By saying this vote is terrible, also, I thought u werent a tonal player? isnt voting me for being defensive, a tonal read? I want to town read you, dont give me a reason not to, and lets not make this a repeat of COD Mafia...
Kami
#924 Vezok had, at one point, invited votes on himself. Scarce few followed on that. Why?
TLDR, he probably isnt scum? which is the exact opposite of what Tom thinks in the post below, I think?
Cyan
#928
tbh this looks like something I would do, to keep scum reading someone xD, and its so bad haha...
Rhand
#938
"Lets lynch scum" is exactly what you said towards me, is it not? Exactly when did I drop down to a scum lean, rather than being a confirmed scum to you? I know this as nothing to do with the stated post, but it just had me wondering...
Though I do agree, if you are gunna ISO, it should look more fluid, and less bias... but would scum make an ISO scum reading almost if not all posts from a town?
Wuffles
Why claim? like I just dont understand, you had what, 3 votes, and 7 days left at the time?
and what does it being confirmable have to do with anything? When will you confirm it? and if you didnt want to claim, then why soft at all?
and lastly, "100% worthless as a scum ability," is just complete wine
@Cyan I can see what you're getting at with Silver. It feels like he should have voted Wuffles in that post. I think I'd prefer lynching Vezok and making Silver drink the potion to trying to build a wagon on him at this stage. Also Atog's point about me and Silver being valuable if we're town and on the same page is all kinds of sketchy. Right now I could easily see a team of Silver, atog, one of wuffles/Iso and x to fill. I can also see tom and Wisp together. Vezok doesn't really tie to anyone, just has been floundering and individually scummy without much of an agenda.
This made me so happy.
@tom I really only suspect you if Wisp is also scum. Wisp can be scum independently of you, but I have a very hard time seeing you be scum if he's town. I don't see Proph as a buddy for you, Iso makes sense too. I also kind of like Cyan as a buddy for you but I'm reading him as town. I could see you, Cyan, and Wisp.
Then this made me sad.
Still, Grape's posts read like they're coming from a town place.
@Tom: How can Proph be scum? Nothing in his posts seems scummy to me this game at all.
I'm always happy to disappoint. What about it made you sad specifically though?
@Wisp you said the post below saves Rhand but you have issues with his next post you touch on. Is there a third post you liked but didn't feel was worthy of comment?
I'm always happy to disappoint. What about it made you sad specifically though?
@Wisp you said the post below saves Rhand but you have issues with his next post you touch on. Is there a third post you liked but didn't feel was worthy of comment?
Because from the way I've seen Rhand play, he doesn't seem like the kind of person that would say, "too scummy to be scum," especially not with all these, "let lynch scum," posts... but like I said, he saved it in his next post when he voted Vez...
I guess I like that hes not afraid to move his votes around? but he seems to attack players who scum read him, or scum lean him, harder than if he just out right scum read them for their posts alone...
I just think I am gunna clash heads with him a lot, I can see it now
Cyan
#921
What exactly has stood out to you? you voted me and then unvoted me because of Tom, unless I am mistaken? are you afraid to make your own reads?
I don't know you as a player, and it seems like Tom does. I has a fairly strong town read on him, so I'm willing to trust his judgment here.
Phraze
#922
hmm, I agree I did get a little defensive, but did Cyan not do the same? How should I have sounded? and I stand by my post, that Cyan seems out of touch with the game, it feels like hes posting just for the sake of posting. Also were you not iffy about Cyan in a way, you even went back to voting him after this post, so whats the problem here? How I respond? By saying this vote is terrible, also, I thought u werent a tonal player? isnt voting me for being defensive, a tonal read? I want to town read you, dont give me a reason not to, and lets not make this a repeat of COD Mafia...
No idea who Phraze is. Probably means Prophylaxis. Anyway. I don't get defensive.
Relatedly, plus town points for LW based on this paragraph.
Cyan
Why is the Vez wagon garbage?
A)Because Vezok always gets wagoned, but his posts just feel like town posts in general. B)Because it didn't go anywhere, which tells me that the scum realize that Vezok always gets wagoned and don't want to get burned on voting him later. C)Because Iso is on it.
Cyan
Typo, that is for Dawn... its mental memory at this point, thats how I know her
Dawn = phraze... I am trying my best to refer to her as Dawn, but it keeps slipping
@dawn: I posted my opinion of Cyan within my last 5 posts. Find it if you want it.
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@shadow: Yeah, but what I was saying was, didn't you ask the mods what would happen?
I've already explained my take on the LW wordvomit thing. Please try to pay attention.
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@Atog:
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@Cyan: Familiar how? Because Silver and I have had a few conversations OoG since he's started playing Mafia, here, if that's to what you are referring.
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@Grapefruit: So you think that my interactions with Atog and Silver make me more likely to be scum with them?
I'm also curious as to why you think I could be scum with tom.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
RE
#903
What do you mean by, "I dont think scum!shadow is someone you catch through individual posts?, where did this come from?
*snip*
RE
#916
Kinda weird how you voted Proph before explaining why, I mean I might just being arguing semantics here, but it just comes off as weird... and also I kinda agree with Proph in a way
>I mean I think he's very good at faking stuff. So I feel like rather than identifying him as scum individually, you catch him if he fits with your other suspects, or just something is off. In other words, I didn't notice anything off about shadow's posts, but that doesn't make him town automatically.
>Technically that is false. I liked a certain part of what Silver said, and back before I realized I misunderstood, I was under the assumption he meant Proph was scummy for post count (refer to Togs' read on Proph). So while I called out a specific post Proph made after I voted him, I also showed suspicion right before. Agree or disagree, it's an odd thing to notice, and so I think it's coming from scum looking for observations to demonstrate "game solving" rather than naturally observing. And I still really think scum!Grape is capable of calling out arguments that defend him. Pretty sure it's a known tactic for scum to question townreads on them to seem townie. (Not to say Grape is scum for it, but it's NAI.)
...
Phraze > dawn
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
@Last whisper: I was down for any wagon and a neutral to scummish read was better than nothing for a wagon. It didn't go off though. Also as I said before, I think terry is very very town so I trust him to do good things.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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RE
Lets agree to disagree here then, because I thought it was a rather odd
post, and as of now, you've made enough statements towards voting me,
so why are you not voting me?
I like your use of "think" because its ambiguous enough to force yourself to not have to vote me after saying I could be scum.
Pretty sure it's a known tactic for scum to question townreads on them to seem townie."Pretty Sure"? so are u not or are you? again with the ambiguity...
Tbh ive never been one to question town reads on myself, prior to this game, town or scum, but honestly I always thought it was the opposite, u were scummy if you didnt question odd town leans on yourself from people..
@Last whisper: I was down for any wagon and a neutral to scummish read was better than nothing for a wagon. It didn't go off though. Also as I said before, I think terry is very very town so I trust him to do good things.
why is he very towny? is it because he hasnt given you reason otherwise? and I am more laid back on giving out town reads, usually, at least because obviously Dawn is an exception, I will never not town read her.
@Last whisper: I was down for any wagon and a neutral to scummish read was better than nothing for a wagon. It didn't go off though. Also as I said before, I think terry is very very town so I trust him to do good things.
##unvote, vote Prophylaxis
@Proph #900: Shadow has me worried, but I don't really see what you are referring to when you say "Tell me if I'm on to something..."
And if you're waiting to do a reread or iso to move your vote, what's the possible harm in leaving it on someone you're scumreading while you do that? Unvoting someone for no reason other than "I can't get them lynched toDay" muddies the vote counts and misrepresents your position on them. What's the actual benefit to unvoting there?
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It's the feeling of the post itself. Rhetorical questions that don't actually matter and talking about "muddying" the votecount. It's just enough to sound like an accusation, but enough to be able to backtrack.
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Check out the Shop Thread
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
"Distancing", in common parlance, is only possible between two villains; neither can be innocent for it to be "distancing". So by use of that term, you imply suspicion of Wuffles as well. But you do not say so explicitly; you draw primary attention to another; and you vote neither of them. Why?
1. if you see his VC, his 1st vote (technically) was on Cyan, someone I also suspect. his 2nd vote was on Kamikaze, during our argument - it makes more sense for scum to be the second one on the scene, not the first. looking at Cyan's VC, his tracks are not as 'lost' (even voted Iso twice) besides being sheep-like, and his latest vote is now on Wuffles - it's like a subtle OMGUS for that earlier vote on him, and it's opportunistic (voting for softclaim).
2. Wuffles has been the focus of attention long enough, with hardly a change in course, that there's a chance he is town. scum would bus/push or spread confusion/shade elsewhere if one of their team stayed in the position of Contempt/Hate for too long. the traction in focus on Wuffles feels like that of town.
(lol I sound like ZE here)I see. overall, I'm looking at the liberty shown in voting. less or more jumps isn't as relevant in longer phases, so the reasoning is more important (the votes ore linked so I can refer to the reasons). town votes are more liberal/interactive and flows along with their reads, whereas scum votes somehow gain traction faster, due to agenda-based banding up on the uninformed's fears.
Be grateful, always."
Terry - He’s town lol
Grape I see some people discussing grape like his alignment is up in the air, and I’m honestly surprised he’s not a consensus townread by now. I mean if you look at the raw STATS, he’s the highest poster in this game by a really wide margin (especially if you don’t count Tom), in comparison he almost has the same number of posts as he did in the pirates game despite the thread being half as long. Literally none of his posts have been fluff either. I don’t see him as capable of maintaining this level of engagement as scum, especially when he has admitted he has a hard time keeping up with content as scum. Basically, he’s obvtown because he’s putting in more effort than you.
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RE - This town lean is a carryover from when she was Shinichi. I know she’s willing to communicate and work together as town and her posts are more coherent than her predecessors overall so that’s probably a good thing.
Silver - Just want to say the string of posts where he defends me was very amusing to read. I don’t want to townread him off of just white knighting me, but I have to question what he gains from doing that as scum when I wasn’t even in the thread, plus the way he posted sounded like he still wanted to keep up communication with those he was disagreeing with. I like where his head is so it’s a town lean from me.
Worth noting at least that grapefruit expressed some suspicion of this slot when yurkin was piloting it, noting to myself to look into for later. If both silver and grape are town and on the same page it could be very productive for us.
Rhand - Carryover from before.
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Iso - I was townleaning him for his bravado but apparently people have been saying this is something he does as scum ? If so that invalidates my reason for reading him so he’s null to me now and I’ll have to figure out a new way to get a grasp of his alignment.
Phraze - I tried to read her, I really did, but I can’t point to any of her behavior as anything she wouldn’t do as town. She probably is just town but I don’t want to just write her slot off.
Last - Last has the potential to be very engaged in his games and I’m not seeing it here. He did say he was busy until after this weekend but if he keeps up his current level it would be uncharacteristic of what I normally see from him. We’ll have to see if he steps it up.
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Killjoy - I did an ISO to see everything he posted in the week I was gone. He LITERALLY still hasn’t expressed a single new read, the closest he got was saying there could be scum among me/grape who were pushing him but he’s been entirely fixated on defending himself and hasn’t contributed anything to gamesolving. He seems to be missing the point too that the reason he’s suspicious is his lack of real reads other than that arbitrary one on last and he sounds like he’s just doubling down on that. Anyone who hasn’t already should take a look at his ISO and tell me if you see anything different.
Proph - Yeah I lean scum on him, to put it bluntly his catchup post was nice, but a post like that is something he’s capable of doing as scum, what’s a lot harder for him is getting actively engaged since he plays this game to be town. I actually wasn’t a fan of the townread he expressed of me in his post, I feel like I’m very easy for scum!proph to find reasons to townread because we have similar ideas of how to approach games. However in my memory proph as town usually grills me in the games we play together, and he grills me hard.
Also yes I know he is justifiably busy but as I said, nowadays most of his game he plays as busy!proph and town!busy!proph usually does post a lot more than this. I switched my vote because not only because he could be scum but also if he is town, he’s too valuable of a resource to let him get by like this. Call it burden of proph-iciency if you will.
Dota - He had good presence early on but then when you go back to read him almost all of his points were about mechanics and he hasn’t said anything since then. It seems kind of indicative to me of a stronger town player who has difficulty getting their head into the game as scum. Would like to pressure this slot to say more.
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Anyone I didn’t list I need to pay attention to / interact with more. I’m aware that’s a lot of people but hey I have been mia for a week.
Any questions you wanna ask me please ask, I could use the help in getting re-engaged in this game. Next steps for me are to respond to specific things people pinged me about earlier and to find stuff to ask my top town / scum reads.
I have read that there are places where the passage of time is a strange thing, at times stretched and thin and at others rushing rapidly; but we are not in those accursed locales. If time itself is distorted in this very town-hall, we have greater matters of concern than I had expected! But nay, I do not think it has. Why, then, do you speak as if this attention has been bearing on Wuffles for so long, rather than the brief and sudden spark that it has been in truth?
I can sorta understand your vote on Proph as he is the one with most things to read off of, in your scumreads. can you explain to me what you don't like about his townread on you? (sorry if I missed it) he's kinda in my blind spot, since I've been more focused on Vezok and others.
another question:
what are the most significant happenings you can remember from this thread? and what impressions did you get of those involved?
Be grateful, always."
while I can consider the timing in Wuffles replacing in, and Yurkin's disappearance, the focus on that slot has stayed at that stagnant level I would consider town. if a scum slot was gonna replace out, wouldn't it be better to excuse suspicion till replacement? few have expressed interest in going after lurkers, and when Grape brought Yurkin up it wasn't pushed away. I did try to probe into the reasons that he suspected Yurkin, but that was the most that happened - and it actually attracted attention, not detracted, from that slot. Wuffles can be sorted out later, if re-evaluation is necessary, but for now, I would say his posting style has been consistent with his voting pattern (uncertain type).
also, do you think Cyan is town? he voted Wuffles on the basis of softclaiming, and it looks lazy to me....the kind of vote that scum would give town.
Be grateful, always."
Silver's recent posts come across as very..familar(I think this is the word I'm looking for) with Iso. If one of them is scum, I would absolutely expect the other to be as well. Can someone remind me whom Silver replaced in for?
I am not sure so sure about this, though it's possible. I do agree that Silver's post to Wuffles comes across as just looking for an excuse to vote him, though. Which is scummy in and of itself. The post in question being:
[b[Unvote, Vote Silver[/b]
I'd perhaps be willing to vote for vezok. I'm currently null reading him.What I need to do is sit down and thoroughly read this game again but I just don't have the time right now. Stupid work.
Silver - I ****ed up. I accidentally misrepresented myself. If I caught someone else doing that this game I wouldn't let them off the hook for it. Ergo I can't expect people to clear me based on my behavior; all I can do is signal that the mechanics of my role will confirm me as town if required, but the problem is that I am less useful to the town if my role mechanics are revealed. But I can catch scum with it if they don't know what it does.
I don't know how to be any more transparent than that. I can confirm myself at any point through my role and the mechanics of this game, but my usefulness diminishes once I do. Take it or leave it, that's what I got.
@Wuffles: Interesting. How can you not be suspicious of Silver after his awful post to you that I quoted above?
1. Atogs is considered rvs.
2. Iso is a defense of Vezok(?). and there was a disagreement between Silver and Iso, before you entered with a vote. (can you explain what made Vezok low-hanging fruit / easy target? what felt fake about Iso?)
3. Last was only reasoned as "textbook basic scum play", and "minor suspicion". 2nd vote on wagon.
4. Iso was based off a hypothetical and "Actually that makes tons of sense to me". (what correlation with Vezok made Iso a priority?)
5. Wuffles was for softclaiming. 3rd vote on the wagon.
I guess you were solo on Iso in VC, but they were more like opportunistic jibes rather than valid reasons. you also weren't committed to your votes, or tried to get a feel of those you voted for. probably need to find a new word for it, but those are as unexplained as sheep votes.
Silver replaced Yurkin. and do you think this is mafia interaction?
Be grateful, always."
2)Iso is not JUST a defense of Vezok, that is just tangentially related. I feel like I laid out my suspicion of Iso clearly, but I'm willing to re-visit it after Silver is resolved(especially since I really think Silver and Iso could both be scum). Also, do you really not understand why Vezok would be low hanging fruit? Have you been in a game where Vezok didn't get wagoned Day 1, regardless of his alignment?
3)I wasn't paying attention to who else was voting Last. I'm willing to explain what I found suspicious by him at a later time. I really don't want to distract from what I think is the best available wagon(Silver) with so few days left.
4)My follow up vote on Iso does make sense, I think. At least from my perspective of A)not thinking Vezok is scum but also wanting to reconcile the lack of action against him from the rest of the playerbase.
5)It was more the way Wuffles went about it, but yeah this was a vote where I followed other people's lead. It happens.
6)Yes, I absolutely think that can be a scum/scum interaction. Does it really look like T/T or T/S to you?
@DBS so you do look at it in larger chronological order (as in wagons as they form relative to counter wagons)? Tha makes a lot more sense to me.
On ths Yurkin read I understand you now. I did it because I felt reactions to my post might be even more valuable than the read itself. And in a way they were. I got some insight into Vezok (his reaction to it is the towniest thing he's done all game) and to you.
Also if I was just tunneling to keep my head down I never would have pushed tom over his Wisp read. Granted I'm clearly not trying to keep my head down.
@Killjoy ahhh I misunderstood. I thought you meant something mechanical was happening. If it's a proper ISO disregard my comment.
@Cyan I can see what you're getting at with Silver. It feels like he should have voted Wuffles in that post. I think I'd prefer lynching Vezok and making Silver drink the potion to trying to build a wagon on him at this stage. Also Atog's point about me and Silver being valuable if we're town and on the same page is all kinds of sketchy. Right now I could easily see a team of Silver, atog, one of wuffles/Iso and x to fill. I can also see tom and Wisp together. Vezok doesn't really tie to anyone, just has been floundering and individually scummy without much of an agenda.
That dawning solving looks like garbage to me.
And, like, it usually does... I've seen her be right before but based on the logic presented it's never looked like anything but blind luck
So I'm not really sure how to read into her alignment from it, other than to say she looks the same as ever.
I like the grape v vezok process I think? Or at least I like that it's happening and some of it isn't the worst.
The wufflesthisgame/lastwhisperinZE analogy looks real forced though. It's one of the few bits of her thinking I managed to actually follow in ze and it doesn't apply at all.
Also find her cyan push to be terrible even for her.
Still no individual read, but lots of roadmap to associative reads once we get flips.
Off the top of my head my most likely buddies would be 1-2 of [last/iso/proph] and the rest in the people im not deigning to read yet.
Softing is being the opposite of being transparent. That's what I've been saying since Vezok did it.
@Grapefruit: I didn't make a post between these two posts by you; would you care to reconcile them? Because the first post looks like a lean town read, and the second post looks an awful lot like an excuse to jump on my wagon later if it picks up traction without actually giving a scum read.
@tom I really only suspect you if Wisp is also scum. Wisp can be scum independently of you, but I have a very hard time seeing you be scum if he's town. I don't see Proph as a buddy for you, Iso makes sense too. I also kind of like Cyan as a buddy for you but I'm reading him as town. I could see you, Cyan, and Wisp.
Jesus, I dont want to rewrite it
What was it about?
Secondly, I want to apologize for my rather confrontational posting earlier... wasnt my attention to become rumanshi 2.0...
Proph
What was this question you wanted me to answer?
Shadow
Normally I do, wanted to try something new, and accidentally closed the tab...
RE
#903
What do you mean by, "I dont think scum!shadow is someone you catch through individual posts?, where did this come from?
Vez
#910
Because terry asked me to but why tho?
and in a post below I believe #912, u say hes neutral, so that makes even less sense, I mean I agree that there should be more wagons, but your vote should still be somewhere that you is a scum lean, otherwise why create that train?
RE
#916
Kinda weird how you voted Proph before explaining why, I mean I might just being arguing semantics here, but it just comes off as weird... and also I kinda agree with Proph in a way
Rhand
#917
almost too scummy to be scum
lol? but I guess u saved urself in the post below...
Cyan
#921
What exactly has stood out to you? you voted me and then unvoted me because of Tom, unless I am mistaken? are you afraid to make your own reads?
Phraze
#922
hmm, I agree I did get a little defensive, but did Cyan not do the same? How should I have sounded? and I stand by my post, that Cyan seems out of touch with the game, it feels like hes posting just for the sake of posting. Also were you not iffy about Cyan in a way, you even went back to voting him after this post, so whats the problem here? How I respond? By saying this vote is terrible, also, I thought u werent a tonal player? isnt voting me for being defensive, a tonal read? I want to town read you, dont give me a reason not to, and lets not make this a repeat of COD Mafia...
Kami
#924
Vezok had, at one point, invited votes on himself. Scarce few followed on that. Why?
TLDR, he probably isnt scum? which is the exact opposite of what Tom thinks in the post below, I think?
Cyan
#928
tbh this looks like something I would do, to keep scum reading someone xD, and its so bad haha...
Rhand
#938
"Lets lynch scum" is exactly what you said towards me, is it not? Exactly when did I drop down to a scum lean, rather than being a confirmed scum to you? I know this as nothing to do with the stated post, but it just had me wondering...
Though I do agree, if you are gunna ISO, it should look more fluid, and less bias... but would scum make an ISO scum reading almost if not all posts from a town?
Wuffles
Why claim? like I just dont understand, you had what, 3 votes, and 7 days left at the time?
and what does it being confirmable have to do with anything? When will you confirm it? and if you didnt want to claim, then why soft at all?
and lastly, "100% worthless as a scum ability," is just complete wine
Cyan
Why is the Vez wagon garbage?
Page 19 complete....
This made me so happy.
Then this made me sad.
Still, Grape's posts read like they're coming from a town place.
@Tom: How can Proph be scum? Nothing in his posts seems scummy to me this game at all.
@Wisp you said the post below saves Rhand but you have issues with his next post you touch on. Is there a third post you liked but didn't feel was worthy of comment?
I guess I like that hes not afraid to move his votes around? but he seems to attack players who scum read him, or scum lean him, harder than if he just out right scum read them for their posts alone...
I just think I am gunna clash heads with him a lot, I can see it now
I don't know you as a player, and it seems like Tom does. I has a fairly strong town read on him, so I'm willing to trust his judgment here.
No idea who Phraze is. Probably means Prophylaxis. Anyway. I don't get defensive.
Relatedly, plus town points for LW based on this paragraph.
A)Because Vezok always gets wagoned, but his posts just feel like town posts in general. B)Because it didn't go anywhere, which tells me that the scum realize that Vezok always gets wagoned and don't want to get burned on voting him later. C)Because Iso is on it.
Just putting that out there. Not able to answer every th ing right now as posting from phone while boss isn't looking, will do so tonight.
Typo, that is for Dawn... its mental memory at this point, thats how I know her
Dawn = phraze... I am trying my best to refer to her as Dawn, but it keeps slipping
#995 Grape Post
I like this post from Grape, specifically the part specifically for Cyan...
Grape is probably town...
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@shadow: Yeah, but what I was saying was, didn't you ask the mods what would happen?
I've already explained my take on the LW wordvomit thing. Please try to pay attention.
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@Atog:
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@Cyan: Familiar how? Because Silver and I have had a few conversations OoG since he's started playing Mafia, here, if that's to what you are referring.
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@Grapefruit: So you think that my interactions with Atog and Silver make me more likely to be scum with them?
I'm also curious as to why you think I could be scum with tom.
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@Silver: You only have two scum reads?
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Anyone voting Mister Wuffs should feel bad.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
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2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
>Technically that is false. I liked a certain part of what Silver said, and back before I realized I misunderstood, I was under the assumption he meant Proph was scummy for post count (refer to Togs' read on Proph). So while I called out a specific post Proph made after I voted him, I also showed suspicion right before. Agree or disagree, it's an odd thing to notice, and so I think it's coming from scum looking for observations to demonstrate "game solving" rather than naturally observing. And I still really think scum!Grape is capable of calling out arguments that defend him. Pretty sure it's a known tactic for scum to question townreads on them to seem townie. (Not to say Grape is scum for it, but it's NAI.)
...
Phraze > dawn
Anyone voting Mister Wuffs should feel bad.
^
also, my last post might have been a bit preemptive way, its safe to say that Silver and Grape are most likely W/V at least...
@Last whisper: I was down for any wagon and a neutral to scummish read was better than nothing for a wagon. It didn't go off though. Also as I said before, I think terry is very very town so I trust him to do good things.
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Lets agree to disagree here then, because I thought it was a rather odd
post, and as of now, you've made enough statements towards voting me,
so why are you not voting me?
I like your use of "think" because its ambiguous enough to force yourself to not have to vote me after saying I could be scum.
Pretty sure it's a known tactic for scum to question townreads on them to seem townie."Pretty Sure"? so are u not or are you? again with the ambiguity...
Tbh ive never been one to question town reads on myself, prior to this game, town or scum, but honestly I always thought it was the opposite, u were scummy if you didnt question odd town leans on yourself from people..
also, why silver?