Iso pulls out his notepad, flips through a few pages, frowns, and scratches his temple. A shadow crosses his vision, and his gaze snaps to the motion, but the shadow quickly darts out of sight. He returns his attention to his notepad, succumbing to a feeling of dread.
"Mister Grapefruit, I believe that any miscreant, let alone Mister Vezokpiraka, would attempt to get away with an easily explainable, seemingly innocent inquisition such as that nature if they believed they would not necessarily be strung up for it. I do not much care for your continued defense of Mister Vezokpiraka, as your persistence gives me inclination to believe that the two of you are plotting my very murder behind my back, together."
Iso turns away from the insidious man with a sweep of his cloak-like coat and faces Prophylaxis.
"Sir Prophylaxis, I must say that I do not markedly recall those to whom I was referring with regards to pushing Sir Shinichi based on his posting style, but I do not believe Sir Shadowlancerx was one of those people - it was simply a sentiment I recalled hearing as I witnessed the events of this group discussion unfold. If you wish, I can review the minutes to pinpoint exactly to whom I was referring, but ultimately, I expect you would be able to infer for yourself upon a cursory re-read just who those people were. While I don't disagree that Sir Shadowlancerx has not done anything especially indicative action-wise to suggest that he may be on our side, I do not receive a sinister vibe from his machinations; rather, I find his analysis of the situation, while somewhat shallow at present, to be insightful - at least, insofar as it has helped me peer into his mind to determine his allegiances."
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
That's fair, but even though I think Vezok's proposal was disastrous his advocating for it felt natural. It's not so much that I think he's town, just more that I don't believe he makes that proposal immediately as scum. And I know that seems like wine, but having just come out of a game where we had a merry old time (or at least I did) debating our best lines of actions his proposal felt more like real Vezok than performance Vezok.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'm torn on Iso right now. On one hand I feel like he is copying KA's gimmick to look townie, his thoughts are really jumbled and his statements are not something I'd expect from Iso.
On the other hand, his opinions aren't bad or scummy by themselves.
@Iso: What do you like about Phrazes line of questioning? Provide quotes if it's possible.
@killjoy : What is that about Iso 1ynching you?
@Proph: Thoughts on Phraze?
Hm.
Hey Vezok... when you feel these questions have been answered satisfactorally can you tell me about what you think of Iso and Proph and specifically what the answers to these questions contributed towards those reads?
@Proph: It also guages your reactions, which may be of an alignment.
When I asked you that, I didn't actually think maybe THAT question would put me on al alignment for you... but it started a discussion. That was more the point.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Hi proph.
You mentioned that my post 170 didn’t have a lot coming out of it, which...did you actually read it? Of course it didn’t have much coming out of it, it was primarily questions and general thoughts about how people should play.
What feeling are you getting from Iso so far?
@grapefruit: What do you think of Prophs take on me?
~~~~
@shin/last/dawning: now that you’ve had some solid play here, do you think the others in this grouping have adjusted their play from MAL to here? How confident are you that you could catch each other/other people from MAL if they rolled scum?
@Proph: it’s a gutread. I’m going to trust my gut for now. I think I know how to catch a scum!you on later Days anyways.
What I asked you about Shinichi is just a minor thing that bothered me.
@Iso: it is weird that Vezok refuted a point you hadn’t made, but that doesn’t make him scum. I just freshly finished a game where he was scum, and I think I know what to look for with him. He hasn’t shown scum behaviour yet. Talking mechanics in a mechanical game like this one isn’t alignment telling.
vote: Shadowlancerx
His questions are too random.
It’s starting to look like we might be facing a Shadow/Iso team, which is scary
Disregard that if one of them flips town, but the way Iso talks about Shadow seems off, their interaction is fluffy and now Shadow is asking Proph his opinion on Iso seemingly out of the blue.
@Shadow: I’m fine if you want Proph’s answer first, but:
- why ask Proph?
- why about Iso?
- what is your own take on Iso?
Rhand, I have answers for you, but yeah, I’ll wait til after proph replies to post it.
In the mean time, talk to me about Terry, specifically have you played much with him before? I really like your stance on him, I think it’s an angle that scum wouldn’t think to take.
As far as Miss Dawn is concerned, I approve of her questioning of Mister Vaimes, as well as her pressure on you, and generally where her mind appears to be with regards to solving this mystery.
@Killjoy: The question for Iso was to try and find out more about his alignment and how he approaches the game. I would have expected town Iso to tell me he likes how Phraze is trying to be generally helpful and provide insight into other MAL players. I think this answer from Iso is just bad, but not alingment telling. I wished he had provided quotes, but oh well.
I'm still waiting for an answer from Proph and will explain later.
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"You have been my friend in the cosmos; you have been my only friend on this planet—the only soul to sense and seek for me within the repellent form which lies on this couch. We shall meet again—perhaps in the shining mists of Orion’s Sword, perhaps on a bleak plateau in prehistoric Asia. Perhaps in unremembered dreams tonight; perhaps in some other form an aeon hence, when the solar system shall have been swept away."
I’m feeling better guys ! Thanks for all the concern you all showed for my health
I still haven’t read the most recent page yet (just skimmed) but I’ll try to get fully caught up after classes today.
Quote from Shinichi »
the only thing that strikes me odd about Ath is that he suggested having an ability that effects the auction house, i believe discussion like that happened in the zero escape mafia as well plus the person who started that conversation was town. Even I had abilities in that game that correlated with the mechanics and I was town so I dont feel like that strikes me as odd. Outside of that though atho hasnt given me much to work with plus cuppled with the fact i havent known him long enough its hard to say.
:thinking:
Quote from Prophylaxis »
I want to see where your head is at because if you're town then I think we can work pretty well together. Since you're familiar with those two players I want to know if anything specific caught your eye, since while I've played a fair amount with Shinichi I only have like 1-2 games worth of experience with Last.
Let me know what you think of them as Day 1 progresses, then? Keep me updated on the read.
I’m afraid I don’t really know Last as well as you seem to think, the only games I think were the one where everyone was town and a micro where he was newb scum, both were early games from him and seeing how much he plays I’d assume he’s improved a lot since then ? TBH I’ve been out of the game for a while in general and right now I’m not fully confident in my own ability to read other people’s meta. I’m actually kind of hoping this is the game that lets me start getting grips on people’s metas again.
As for Shinichi, to be honest he feels different to me.. from both his town and scum games ? I seem to remember him always having some kind of huge argument with someone early on and then posting these giant 12+ post stream of consciousness reactions and he seems to not really be doing those things here. This may be because of the different setting (MARATHON NOT A SPRINT) or just a personality shift in general but it’s not something I could get a meta read on. But I will say I like his activity in the thread and his questions and he’s a town lean for me based on that.
Quote from Parp »
Pretty much caught up with the gamestate, I have a bunch of weak townreads (Grape/Rhand/Shinichi/DoTA/Kami) but nothing so far has really stood out to me yet in terms of slam-dunk scum? Going to try and give this game another read-through tomorrow and post my thoughts but I feel like a third of the playerbase is lurking and we should.. poke sticks at them.
I can agree with this list for light townreads. What are your thoughts about Phraze ?
Quote from Killjoy »
Atog: Thoughts on Shin?
See above. Why’d you ask me this ?
Quote from vezokpiraka »
What exactly do you want me to respond too?
I did ask for some elaboration of your plan after your entrance then I poked you when you didn’t respond to my thoughts and I poked you again when you didn’t respond to that either.. Basically I want you to acknowledge I exist, lol. I do think it’s kind of weird you didn’t engage me further since I was like, the only guy who voiced support for your plan.
Quote from Iso »
The gentleman tipped his hat as he briskly entered the door.
I have absolutely 0 difficulty imagining you actually doing this every time you post.
Quote from Iso »
Atogaholic, what is your familiarity with vezokpiraka like?"
His name kind of rings a bell but I literally cannot remember any time I played with him. Why do you ask ?
@Grape: My read on last kinda started in post 11. Vezok proposes a plan on how to get the game going.
Last responds to this is kind of a casual, sincere way. I feel like he continues this tone with Shin in 30. It's not like, super telling... but it's going in a good direction that I'm seeing there.
I’m confused about your Last read, seeing you say it was your strongest kind of built up hype for when you’d finally post your reasoning but this seems really arbitrary to me, and “calm and sincere” are not words I would use to describe Last’s posting in general. Also
@Shin: Hm. I didn't actually ask for a read on him. Reads are certainly a subfolder of the main directory "Thoughts" but it's not the only one in there.
So, lets be more specific. Look at post 15/17. My initial thought on it was his response to Vezok's proposal was a bit softball/fence sitty. Do you agree? Disagree? Why?
You strongly townread Last based on his response where he literally ends with “IDK”, but mine is fence-sitty ?
##unvote, vote: Killjoy
You said you get info from one-on-one interactions, let’s try to get one going.
Have you actually played with Last before ? Have you played with Shinichi, and why was he the one you asked for an opinion on me ?
Quote from Rhand »
@Shadow: from the people who had actively posted when I said that, I have light townreads on Shinichi, Terry, Proph, Grape, Kami, Dota and Vezok.
Possible scum in last and KJ.
That doesn’t bring the game in POE because too many people weren’t really part in the conversation yet.
Do you tink scum!KJ would open up with listing scum!Last as his strongest townread like that ? I’m kind of tinfoiling KJ as scum right now but if he is I feel like Last would actually be town, kind of like a “reasoning is weak because he already knows the answer to the alignment question” kind of thing.
Question for people with more experience than me: how drastically does the game change being this large? I'm already more of a coalition builder than a scum hunter in the first place (though I do both) does the extra size make forming a town circle less valuable? Or the opposite which was my original take, but I've since wavered on.
Town: Shin, Rhand, Proph, Terry, and maybe Iso isn't a bad starting point.
Eeek. Did we really pull opposite sides again Grape? This sounds a bit suspect. I don't like excuses for not scum hunting.
@Shadow: I do have quite a bit of experience with Terry. I don’t think he would craft a post like that as scum.
And yes, your questions seem aimless, which is exactly what bothers me. They look like asking questions for the sake of asking questions.
@Atog: KJ and last are seperate and light reads. In that post you quoted KJ diminishes his own read on last, so I guess they could be scum together. It might simply be fear of commiting to a townread on a buddy. But they don’t have to be, and of the two I think KJ is definitely the better lead right now.
It’s pretty strange that KJ doesn’t jump on me calling him possible scum too. As town he usually gets frustrated when I think he’s scum (and vice versa )
Ahem... I don't wish to distract for long from analyzing motives, but the deadline for auction house voting approaches; and not only do I see that several of us have yet to vote, but also I see that there is little agreement, with no item having more than 2 votes. I propose we concentrate our votes to greater effect; I have been informed that, if there is a tie for an auction slot, it shall be decided randomly among the objects with equal votes.
I also respectfully request that the arbitrator of our gathering nudge one who has not spoken so far...
Ok, so I have a partial claim for you guys. I'm a bit of an appraiser. It's not all of my role, but I can tell you this much: Once a day I can see what an item does. Since the most discussed item has been the Auction Logs I looked into it. It's a one-shot day action that publicly reveals target player's auction number.
I plan on using this each day before item voting occurs and will be open for suggestions... starting tomorrow (since I just burned it today).
Ok, so I have a partial claim for you guys. I'm a bit of an appraiser. It's not all of my role, but I can tell you this much: Once a day I can see what an item does. Since the most discussed item has been the Auction Logs I looked into it. It's a one-shot day action that publicly reveals target player's auction number.
I plan on using this each day before item voting occurs and will be open for suggestions... starting tomorrow (since I just burned it today).
If anyone needed more reasons to believe that terry is town, you just got them.
From my perspective terry is conftown.
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If you think that shadow is not looking townie, then why not vote him? Is your read on Vaimes stronger?
I haven't played with Vaimes before. Shadow is also someone I'm sure will respond to suspicions without pressure voting.
What makes you think this exactly? (Yes, I realize the irony of this reply)
I’m not exactly sure why you think you really understand my play; ZE I was caught solely on mechanics, and I helped mislynch you in both Haiku and pirates Mafia day one. We don’t really have a rapport.
like I said before, my understanding of your play is more towards the exposure to you as a player, more than the differences in your town/scum game (of which I have an insufficient sample of).
you tend to talk about "the town mindset" as scum, and talk about "the scum mindset" as town - in other words, you talk a lot about the mindset of your enemy and the standards for it. I see that you're more critical of town this time, and coupled with my given reasons, I worry that you could be scum.
@shin/last/dawning: now that you’ve had some solid play here, do you think the others in this grouping have adjusted their play from MAL to here? How confident are you that you could catch each other/other people from MAL if they rolled scum?
we're some of the most active from MAL, so yes I think the others are adjusting well to this site (just as lurky as over there). I don't play favorites, so no worries there-...or rather, I love to lynch them whenever I can, but end up disappointed.
Greetings and salutations. I was following along for about the first 75 posts and then dropped off. I am going afk for (likely) the rest of the day, so I'll work on catch-up and contributing tomorrow. Feel free to ask if there are any questions pending for my slot that I might be able to answer.
I have some questions towards your slot (Vaimes), but since they're player-specific, I'll start over with...
out of the new players, who are you most interested in now?
both sides clashed naturally, and gave out their thoughts in a way I say...wasn't forced. Last is something like a nervous wreck as scum, and it's more pronounced when pressured, but in that debate he handled himself in a relaxed manner, hence the townlean. it's like, the fluff is what makes him a townread, since he's prone to go over and beyond as nervous scum.
thanks, this was the type of nuances read i was looking for
i don't have much experience with Last!scum though, but I do know he is unfiltered and headstrong as town. is he easily readable as scum in your experience?
really? good to know I guess
yes, scum!Last is easy to read. he tends to act out of pressure to perform, even when no pressure is placed yet. as town, he just swims the way he wants.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Ok, so I have a partial claim for you guys. I'm a bit of an appraiser. It's not all of my role, but I can tell you this much: Once a day I can see what an item does. Since the most discussed item has been the Auction Logs I looked into it. It's a one-shot day action that publicly reveals target player's auction number.
I plan on using this each day before item voting occurs and will be open for suggestions... starting tomorrow (since I just burned it today).
If anyone needed more reasons to believe that terry is town, you just got them.
From my perspective terry is conftown.
Yeah, I’m inclined to agree with you that scum Terry doesn’t butt in to cut off a mechanical conversation like this if he’s scum, there’s not really a point to it.
What makes you say he’s conf!town from “your perspective” though?
like I said before, my understanding of your play is more towards the exposure to you as a player, more than the differences in your town/scum game (of which I have an insufficient sample of).
you tend to talk about "the town mindset" as scum, and talk about "the scum mindset" as town - in other words, you talk a lot about the mindset of your enemy and the standards for it. I see that you're more critical of town this time, and coupled with my given reasons, I worry that you could be scum.
You just said you don’t have a good grasp of differences between my town and scum games, but then list a perceived difference as reason to suspect me. -_-
@shin/last/dawning: now that you’ve had some solid play here, do you think the others in this grouping have adjusted their play from MAL to here? How confident are you that you could catch each other/other people from MAL if they rolled scum?
we're some of the most active from MAL, so yes I think the others are adjusting well to this site (just as lurky as over there). I don't play favorites, so no worries there-...or rather, I love to lynch them whenever I can, but end up disappointed.
Thats...not an answer to the question I asked. Do you think you’re reasonably equipped to catch them as scum?
Ok, so I have a partial claim for you guys. I'm a bit of an appraiser. It's not all of my role, but I can tell you this much: Once a day I can see what an item does. Since the most discussed item has been the Auction Logs I looked into it. It's a one-shot day action that publicly reveals target player's auction number.
I plan on using this each day before item voting occurs and will be open for suggestions... starting tomorrow (since I just burned it today).
If anyone needed more reasons to believe that terry is town, you just got them.
From my perspective terry is conftown.
Yeah, I’m inclined to agree with you that scum Terry doesn’t butt in to cut off a mechanical conversation like this if he’s scum, there’s not really a point to it.
What makes you say he’s conf!town from “your perspective” though?
It's weird. Again, you are kind of talking in circles. He just said why he thought I was town. Why are you asking him again? What was your last scum game Shadow?
like I said before, my understanding of your play is more towards the exposure to you as a player, more than the differences in your town/scum game (of which I have an insufficient sample of).
you tend to talk about "the town mindset" as scum, and talk about "the scum mindset" as town - in other words, you talk a lot about the mindset of your enemy and the standards for it. I see that you're more critical of town this time, and coupled with my given reasons, I worry that you could be scum.
You just said you don’t have a good grasp of differences between my town and scum games, but then list a perceived difference as reason to suspect me. -_-
@shin/last/dawning: now that you’ve had some solid play here, do you think the others in this grouping have adjusted their play from MAL to here? How confident are you that you could catch each other/other people from MAL if they rolled scum?
we're some of the most active from MAL, so yes I think the others are adjusting well to this site (just as lurky as over there). I don't play favorites, so no worries there-...or rather, I love to lynch them whenever I can, but end up disappointed.
Thats...not an answer to the question I asked. Do you think you’re reasonably equipped to catch them as scum?
I guess you could say it is 'perception'. what I have in mind is only a theory, not a fact. I will need to see more of your games (firsthand) to make an accurate assessment. but from what I've seen of you, the way you write, etc, you might be that kind of player. but no worries, I'm that kind of player too
hmmm I see. I don't know. if something concerns me, my favorite weapon is ASK.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
It's weird. Again, you are kind of talking in circles. He just said why he thought I was town. Why are you asking him again? What was your last scum game Shadow?
I’m not asking him about his read on you, I’m asking him specifically about his phrasing.
@Dota yes that is my fear. And why I was talking about town "voting" on who they want to get the logs when I thought that one vote in the auction thread was going to make it available.
As for your semantics point I phrased it that way because I am assuming town voted for the logs. And I wanted to phrase it in a less confrontational manner. There are a few players here who I know aren't the most thorough in terms of thinking out mechanics and I went with the kill them with kindness approach since I'd already been a bit blustery.
As for your other point I literally said "D3 might be a good idea" in the post you quoted. The second one is a bit more confident wording, but I was more focused on making a point that we should be planning to mass claim auction numbers at some stage, but not before D3.
Even if town voted on who gets the logs we couldn't have followed through on that without said person immediately outing their auction number. And if scum did win the auction we'd never know without a full massclaim of auction numbers and a positive flip on said player. Your posts about the D3+ massclaim just don't line up with the subtext here.
@Grape/dota: your discussion is the wrong kind of mechanical discussion to have. You’re explaining what you’re expecting scum to do with the auction house. Which will make scum careful not to do that.
Better to keep those ideas to yourself and use them to catch scum later on when they actually did it.
I'm not discussing mechanics though, I'm trying to understand Grape's motives in the mechanical discussion he's brought up, and I don't not see a town motivation here. To be honest it wouldn't surprise me if scum!Grape voted for the logs thinking they'd make it on and relied on his teammates to lead the discussion away from the auction number massclaim (since town would most likely go that way rather than outing everything)
@Rhand yeah, it's frustrating because it's worthwhile to speculate about and knowledge of the flavor might lead to semi informed opinions, but I think the accidental outing risk is too high. Maybe on a later day it's worth trying to force certain items up for auction.
@Wisp why wouldn't you want other people's reasons for their votes? Why would it be suspicious that someone was asking for reasons behind a vote?
And again, no way to do that without first having people claim their auction numbers so we can follow up on if they're going with the plan or not. I'm not against a claim later on when it's relevant but why keep bringing it up (both directly and subtly) on Day 1?
@dota why not? I thought it would be best to town knowledge for them to know that their is someone in this game that i already have a conformation of being town as well as knowing their auction number
That's info that would be useful to prevent a mislynch to to help POE, but it doesn't help if you die early game without revealing the info and you're setting yourself up as a kill target by announcing it. So how does knowing this now help town?
@Shin read before you ask questions my man. I've stated my opinion on 77 a couple times. I'm pretty sure you have quoted it before.
Anyway super duper strongly disagree with your original voter outs themselves when an item goes to auction house. But I'm going to need you to explain why you think that is a good idea. What gain does town get from it?
As for the logs, yes that would be terrifying. That's why it should never go for auction in a traditional way. It's not like we're obligated to vote for it.
I agree that it's a bad idea to claim it so early, but there have been games where deciding and debating on actions/items as a group have been the deciding factor in town winning (see the final Days of Mafia vs Werewolves). Are you entirely opposed to the idea of a group decision or do you think it could be worthwhile later in the game?
I think it can be worthwhile later in the game, when the gamestate becomes a lot more.. exact, for lack of a better term, and mechanics play a slightly larger role in determining how the game goes. I don't want games to be bogged down in mechanics discussion though because I've lost some games due to that (like Iji Mafia 2, where they lynched Kami when he was town by behavior because of a mechanical action plan that went haywire)
Tell me how asking this question helps you figure out my alignment.
Was testing your response, wanted to see how it lined up with the entirety of what you said rather than just what I quoted
- Not a fan of vezok's idea because I feel like that pushes a lot of information into the public which the scum can potentially manipulate, and I don't want to spend the entire Day deciding who gets X item when we can literally just figure out who the bad guys are and lynch them.
Couple of thoughts:- I'm going to keep mechanical discussion to a limit in my posts. Obviously, it's a huge part of the game, and it's going to come up at some point. However, I find that overfocusing on mechanical discussion gives scum a smokescreen in which they can post/engage in discussion, and I don't want that. I'm just going to keep scumhunting normally and then dive into mechanical discussion when I deem it relevant.
- Not a fan of vezok's idea because I feel like that pushes a lot of information into the public which the scum can potentially manipulate, and I don't want to spend the entire Day deciding who gets X item when we can literally just figure out who the bad guys are and lynch them.
Your answer makes sense in context of what you said there so, town points for you.
I suspect it's either a list of all item abilities or a list of everything that will later be revealed for auction. And the blacklist one I suspect has something to do with secret items. Either way they both seem to be items that would primarily provide information about other items and that is not something I want the scum team to get their hands on.
And I don't currently believe the person who voted for it is scum. Could very easily be someone naively wanting a list and not realizing how much more valuable that is in an organized team's hand then in one random person's hands. Either way I think it's hurting town to have that item go up for auction. I might be completely off base (this is pure speculation after all) but the downside potential is really high.
And yeah that is completely different to my definition of policy voting. Policy voting (to me) is voting for someone because you want them out of the game regardless of alignment. For example shadow policy votes people for self voting regardless of his alignment or what he believes their alignment to be.
You had me at your first paragraph and then you lost me on the second.
Getting "angry" at a vote on the log saying how harmful it can be for town in scums hands but yet distracting us from that thought by confidently saying that vote "easily" comes from town.
@everyone does Grape always talk like he belongs to town? The last time he did that he was scum lel
yes, kinda? What scum game are u referring to? IF you mean starship, then its mostly nai, because this is how he plays both as town and scum
Haven't catched up, so I'm gonna start reading now. I've noticed that people are already voting at the auction house. We don't know for sure what the items do right? Does that mean people are randomly voting by assuming?
This is a vote to see what ends up on the block, and the general appraisers will only come by to ascertain - and publicly proclaim - the item's qualities once the vote is complete.
That said, it seems we do have an appraiser present in this very group, which is fortuitous. Now, by itself, that profession might not tell us of the individual's proclivities; an upstanding townsperson might be so employed, but so could one of the servants of the dark forces of Arkham. They, too, would wish to know what the purpose of various objects is.
A malicious agent would have little reason to disclose their profession and their specific knowledge at this time. To do so binds their options, as we shall now require them to give us information on each forthcoming day, and they know they must be truthful - being caught in a lie here would doom them. I can imagine a sufficiently twisted mind deciding to do this as a sacrifice of sorts, giving up their autonomy to strengthen their masquerade. But this is one of whom opinion had already been positive; would they have needed such an additional effort? I think it unlikely.
(I briefly thought of the idea that the profession itself might be a lie, but discarded it; it would be far too easily and quickly disproven.)
Yet we must halt short of declaring Terry above suspicion entirely, as vezok has. Indeed, I find it curious that vezok would so quickly leap to an absolute statement. Curious, and more; I find it unsettling. Who can be so certain when we are surrounded by treachery and the unknown? The only ones who can be truly certain of anything are those who are already inducted into the foul circles of eldritch worship, for they know their own ranks.
@Terry I always town hunt. Pretty much every single game I've played. You can blame vicariously seeing Bare Bones through Vaimes eyes as my mafia introduction for that.
@Dota That was kind of my point. If someone voted for an item I was saying was horrible for town and it went up and was in fact horrible for town. I wanted a mass claim if it didn't go to town approved hands. For instance if the logs did go up despite thanks to Terry knowing that's an awful idea, we as a town might decree that anyone except Terry who voted for it would be lynched. And if someone broke that then we mass claim. That ultimatum should prevent it from happening and keep the item out of scum hands without causing a mass claim. And lying opens up a true 50/50 on D1.
@Gwen my statement there was because I know we have players in this game who aren't inclined to think mechanically (see thinking that the original bidder in the auction house should out themselves). As a result while I'm very confident more votes on the Logs are bad for town, I'm equally confident someone would have voted for it as town.
Whoever made the point that casual and relaxed doesn't describe Wisp's game as either alignment was onto something.
Shinichi
Its random to the point where my vote wont be there for long, yes its more of a policy vote... but explain to me what makes this sound odd? this happens in almost all our games on MAL, so why are you attacking it now...
@last ur vote was so obvious
@crossbell almost as obvious as crossbell vote on togs
thanks for the unnecessary info here... do you just like to find random reasons to comment on posts, just to look busy...
I do like ur post on Terry's rvs vote tho, not as half baked as your other comments
This is the post I keep coming back to of Wisp's that feels wrong. He enjoys banter and RVS, but this is forced. It looks nervous about Shin calling him out and pushes back in a way that's more than just Banter. It's a real push back and I don't see town wisp feeling like he has to make that over Shin poking at him over RVS.
I have one main idea from it that should be discussed. It's about auction numbers. Should we all claim and decide on who gets what item or should we stay hidden this way minimizing the potential of a townie with a good item being eliminated. I can see advantages and disadvantages for both of these options.
Compare this to post 273 here and tell me this isn't a similar tone and idea. 217 is another example that feels very similar to me. Yes he was scum there, but those were genuine proposals. And to me they read very differently from his in thread push on Az.
Something about this... didn't seem right. Reading back through my notes, I found the discrepancy; something slight yet nagging.
Grapefruit, in these words:
Town: Shin, Rhand, Proph, Terry, and maybe Iso isn't a bad starting point.
You propose a list of those who you find most honest and trustworthy. Yet earlier you had mentioned myself positively more than once. Why the omission? Also, you are defending vezok against another's attack - but have omitted him either.
Further, you have cast a vote against Killjoy yet all your words speak of suspicion of others, notably of Lastwhisper.
A voice arises that is different from the rest. Unconcerned with the actions of others, pointing no fingers, they speak instead to the goings-on at the peculiar auction. The strange objects there have tugged at my curiosity as well, yet the voice rings hollow to my ears. What is this proposal for a revealing of our identities at the auction? Did we not adopt anonymous bids precisely because of the grisly fate of several buyers? And why do they, having advanced an idea, step back away from it so quickly, taking no position of their own?
..This is just a million word way of saying that we should reveal who we are when we're bidding on auction items, right?
Assuming so, I'm in favor. Though admittedly I'm still having some trouble figuring out that part of the game.
Now that I read more clearly, I see that Vezok proposed this and you're basically just disagreeing with it, which is troubling to me.
This is all that seems worth commenting at the end of Page 1(which is 50 posts for me). Disappointing. Page 2 next post.
- I'm going to keep mechanical discussion to a limit in my posts. Obviously, it's a huge part of the game, and it's going to come up at some point. However, I find that overfocusing on mechanical discussion gives scum a smokescreen in which they can post/engage in discussion, and I don't want that. I'm just going to keep scumhunting normally and then dive into mechanical discussion when I deem it relevant.
- Not a fan of vezok's idea because I feel like that pushes a lot of information into the public which the scum can potentially manipulate, and I don't want to spend the entire Day deciding who gets X item when we can literally just figure out who the bad guys are and lynch them.
@Shinichi: Why do you have to ask for permission to vote for someone? It's RVS; let the votes fly?
Quote from Shinichi »
its very relevant because if u had voted anyone other than gwen as ur rvs i would have assumed ur scum together by lynching u first.
What do you mean by this? If Last voted anyone other than Gwendolly for his RVS vote, you would have assumed that Last is scum? Why?
Quote from Shinichi »
Because it would have been evident ur scum together if u didnt rvs the same person u do every game.
So if Last didn't vote Gwendolly for his RVS vote, you would have assumed that Gwendolly + Lastwhisper would have been scum together? Would appreciate clarification here.
Quote from Grapefruit21 »
Gut town reads on Shin and Kami. For bad reasons. Also Hi Shin!
Can understand the Shinichi one, but can you try to explain the Kami one? I just see.. creative roleplaying which is cool but not really sure if it's alignment indicative when Kami was pretty excited for this game to start in sign-ups.
This post feels bad to me. It comes across like Proph is just saying what he thinks should be said; and is not necessarily saying what he believes(particularly re: item claim discussion).
Quote from Vezok »
How is this better? The town doesn't know who is whom and the scum can randomly bid on stuff by still staying hidden and the scum knows who has the powerful items and can kill them at night. This to me sounds like the worst of both worlds.
I like this defense by Vezok. It comes across like he genuinely believes what he is saying.
Rhand's item speculation feels like a town post for him. If he were scum, I'd expect him to not make this post.
Terry's reaction to Rhand's speculation here feels opportunistic in a bad way, especially the part where he asks him why he's speculating on this instead of hunting for scum. This is a cheap shot.
Question for you: if you know you have a hard time reading Proph and me, then why question us? Wouldn’t it make more sense to question people that might actually give you an alignment read?
This is yet another question I wouldn't expect scum-Rhand to ask.
I am not at all a mechanical player. I was lured in by the flavor and approximately one-third of the players.
I'm just gonna scumhunt and kill wolfy people and let other people handle the blah blah blah for the time being.
That being said, I didn't really come away with any remotely strong feelings. It's mostly "massclaim yes no" and roleplaying.
This feels like a completely honest assessment by Vaimes.
A voice arises that is different from the rest. Unconcerned with the actions of others, pointing no fingers, they speak instead to the goings-on at the peculiar auction. The strange objects there have tugged at my curiosity as well, yet the voice rings hollow to my ears. What is this proposal for a revealing of our identities at the auction? Did we not adopt anonymous bids precisely because of the grisly fate of several buyers? And why do they, having advanced an idea, step back away from it so quickly, taking no position of their own?
..This is just a million word way of saying that we should reveal who we are when we're bidding on auction items, right?
The opposite! We should not reveal such things, just as we should not reveal our professions and abilities.
Something about this... didn't seem right. Reading back through my notes, I found the discrepancy; something slight yet nagging.
Grapefruit, in these words:
Town: Shin, Rhand, Proph, Terry, and maybe Iso isn't a bad starting point.
You propose a list of those who you find most honest and trustworthy. Yet earlier you had mentioned myself positively more than once. Why the omission? Also, you are defending vezok against another's attack - but have omitted him either.
Further, you have cast a vote against Killjoy yet all your words speak of suspicion of others, notably of Lastwhisper.
Why all these inconsistencies?
My good feelings for you dissipated a bit when I was informed the posting restriction was planned in pregame. I do have good feelings about you, but not as strongly as towards the others. Iso's entrance is better than yours, but yours isn't bad.
As for KJ over Last, I have a few niggling doubts about Last that I want other opinions on, while Tog's 223 made a good case about KJ.
Question for you: if you know you have a hard time reading Proph and me, then why question us? Wouldn’t it make more sense to question people that might actually give you an alignment read?
This is yet another question I wouldn't expect scum-Rhand to ask.
I am not at all a mechanical player. I was lured in by the flavor and approximately one-third of the players.
I'm just gonna scumhunt and kill wolfy people and let other people handle the blah blah blah for the time being.
That being said, I didn't really come away with any remotely strong feelings. It's mostly "massclaim yes no" and roleplaying.
This feels like a completely honest assessment by Vaimes.
That's all that stuck out for me on Page 3.
Vezok, my dude, do you really have nothing to say to me after #15 and #89 ?
This post by Atog, especially in context with the rest of his posts, feels super scummy. It just doesn't make sense coming from a town perspective.
The gentleman tipped his hat as he briskly entered the door.
"Evening, chaps, ladies. Sorry for my tardiness; I've, ah, come from a long way away."
He eyes his watch.
"I have an appointment to make with an old friend, but hopefully we can take care of this ordeal in due time. Chop chop!"
The man took in the surrounding people and their thoughts.
"I am not in favor of revealing our auction identities. This seems poorly thought out, and I would dare even cast scrutiny towards the one who suggested it."
Vote vezokpiraka
"I am also inclined to disbelieve those with opinions who seem a little more ah, ethereal. Especially those with which I have had prior dealings to this effect."
FoS Atogaholic
The man walks up to Shinichi.
"You seem to be in a strange place mentally. Would you care to tell me what your angle is in your approach to the happenings around us thus far?"
Clearing his throat, he addressed Grapefruit:
"I am not in favor of your proposal. I have reason to believe that information is king in these parts, and the less of it we share with unscrupulous individuals, the better. As KamikazeArchon said, there are rats in the walls...one must not tread too far into the dark, lest they ambush you."
FoS Grapefruit21
"I sense dark tidings among those with loose lips. Let us keep our hands close to our chests for as long as it behooves us to do so. Prophylaxis, who are your top suspects at this juncture? shadowlancerx, I am also interested in hearing your take on this question."
As the man named Rhand speculated on the nature of the auctioned items, the gentleman the group would come to know as "Iso" continued to analyze the on-going mystery around him unfold.
"While I sense your intentions are pure, friend, I would continue to advise against such speculation in an out loud manner. vezokpiraka, do you plan on contributing to the investigation, or are you simply going to gawk at the items on display?"
Iso continued to pace about the room, as though it would somehow help him think.
"dawningbluesky, I like your ideas thus far. Please continue on your trajectory. Grapefruit, why the disconnect between your ideas expressed towards DoT and your vote on DisplayName? Such non-sequitur seems like a grandiose display of deflecting attention. I see you inadvertently voted the wrong person, but my sentiment on the vote, itself, remains the same. I enjoy LastWhisper's take on vezok's reaction to this vote, as it was the exact sentiment that reflected my own thoughts on the matter."
Iso looks towards Prophylaxis.
"Do you believe Shinichi's incomprehensible speech is being used as a scapegoat for pressure? I do believe you are more familiar with the gentleman than I. Atogaholic, what is your familiarity with vezokpiraka like?"
Iso looks distracted, scribbles a note in his pad, and looks up triumphantly with a cunning smile on his face.
I'm torn on Iso right now. On one hand I feel like he is copying KA's gimmick to look townie, his thoughts are really jumbled and his statements are not something I'd expect from Iso.
On the other hand, his opinions aren't bad or scummy by themselves.
@Iso: What do you like about Phrazes line of questioning? Provide quotes if it's possible.
@killjoy : What is that about Iso 1ynching you?
@Proph: Thoughts on Phraze?
Why does is matter? Does it make iso scummy just cause his way of posting is similar to Kamis? I think the way he came into the game is a huge town tell, later in the game his ego will prob show giving me a harder time to read into him.
ended up being busier than expected due to easter stuff, will catch up tomorrow
Quote from Iso »
"Do you believe Shinichi's incomprehensible speech is being used as a scapegoat for pressure? I do believe you are more familiar with the gentleman than I."
i think shinichi just thinks/words/types things differently than how most of us do
i've played with shinichi a fair number of times and he has the tendency to either be lynchbait as town, as i'm sure you're aware of, or pretty easily identifiable as scum
I was only scum once in MTG -.-, which was last game XD. Also my grammar and just terrible wording always bites me in the ass when comes to mafia.
Btw what do you think of ISO first post?
@ISO 171
-Welcome to the Party, lets see how big ur ego is this game
-What do you think of the new MAL players Karote aka the one with the silly name, Yurkin, and Gwen whatever he name is here?
-Why dont u like the idea?
-WHat do you think grapefruits theory says about his alignment?
-Also i have a hard time putting my thoughts into words, so feel free to have me repeat things XD.
-Whats your plan?
-Ur vote on Vezo is cause of the mass auction claim right?
I’m really not a fan of the hypothetical mechanical discussions going on. If you have a point about mechanics that’s relevant and necessary, speak it, and we can analyze it. If you don’t, this weird half talk about it is not adding anything to the conversation and acts as a smokescreen for the game.
Always though u seemed like a mechanical kind of person, do you not like the idea of getting all the mechanics talk out before day 1 is over?
@DBS town are the majority but we're disorganized and distrust each other. Scum are organized. If the logs give information on what items are or where they are going that is much more valuable to them than to a disorganized town. I'm very apprehensive of giving scum any insight into the information that is hidden from them. I only have been making it a concern because someone voted for it and I think that is beneficial to scum.
Also that nervous energy you're describing for last is what I'm seeing here. In his early interactions with Shin in particular.
Also a general request: I know some people have different names on MAL but can we try to refer to people by the name they've chosen here.
trusting each other is the key to winning. saying that we are meant to play distrusting each other is not a good look.
Last does react wildly to accusations (ZE is proof of that), but it's not as "ambitious" as when he is scum. he would be more ready to pounce on any little fault as scum, and I did not see that in his debate with Shin.
and yeah, I'm addressing others by their names here (I have Phraze in my forum subtext though, so it shouldn't be confusing).
Its too early to just trust eachother, in mafia everyones guilty till proven innocent. YOu cant just expect GF or anyone else to just trust someone, thats what interactions are for.
IF anything those wild reactions from kyle are null because ive seen him do them as both and if i read him based on that OOG situations would just cause me to read him as town everytime.
Greetings and salutations. I was following along for about the first 75 posts and then dropped off. I am going afk for (likely) the rest of the day, so I'll work on catch-up and contributing tomorrow. Feel free to ask if there are any questions pending for my slot that I might be able to answer.
Welcome to the game
What do u think of the players your new to playing with
What do you think of vezo and GF theories on how the auction house should be handled?
Greetings and salutations. I was following along for about the first 75 posts and then dropped off. I am going afk for (likely) the rest of the day, so I'll work on catch-up and contributing tomorrow. Feel free to ask if there are any questions pending for my slot that I might be able to answer.
If you are asking if I'm going to stop with the setup spec and scumhunt, then your question should be answered if you read my posts. I'm forming an opinion on players and give my thoughts wherever possible. If there was another question, I missed it.
It's foolish to assume I was OMGUSing you, when this is your first real contribution to the game. Can't say I agree with your vote on me, but it's not the reason I'm questioning you.
Why doesnt it matter if this is his first real contribution, i feel like your afraid of how ISO entered the game and pounced right on you.
Question for people with more experience than me: how drastically does the game change being this large? I'm already more of a coalition builder than a scum hunter in the first place (though I do both) does the extra size make forming a town circle less valuable? Or the opposite which was my original take, but I've since wavered on.
Town: Shin, Rhand, Proph, Terry, and maybe Iso isn't a bad starting point.
Not sure it should make a difference
Outside of terry and ISO who i get good vibes from, why the rest espically me?
@Cross #206
-I dont believe we will,seeing as how the mechanics conversation has already seemed to die down anyways
-Btw whats your take on karote and yurkin? As well as how ISO came into the thread?
-Oh thats what you were asking, it was mostly just a joke because i was really tempted to vote him after that
-He replaced out in the last game he was in with me as scum ironically lol, my last game with cantrip didnt go well so cant read much into it. As for phraze compared to how i normally see her as aggresive scum she just seems really different this game more town like behavior it feels like. I do like ur questioning as well.
-So far I dont dislike Grapefruit, besides our disagreements on how to go about the auction house nothing has struck me as ill coming from grapefruit if anything he seems a little similar to the towniness in zero escape that got him mislynched.
-What does a train on a lurker solve tho?
-Fair enough on the health reasons, at first i thought it might be scum behavior from you but i like what your doing here i aint sure how to read into it though XD.
@Shin I couldn't decide if it was a typo ir not. It can be hard to tell with your posts sometimes. And yes I'm on a highhorse at the moment, but you're brushing off of giving scum more information like it's a negligible cost is not something I can agree with.
@KJ I'll have to take another look at the posts you mentioned but at a glance I didn't see the good intent you were referring to.
@Iso Do you think scum Vezo would really make such an anti-town proposal immediately? I feel similarly about bidder 77 that I do about Vezok proposal. More misguided than sinister.
I like Rhands read on Terry and for anyone else I'd be all in, but for Terry that feels par for the course. I'm still in on Terry being town, just only wading rather than diving in from the deep end.
THen dont agree with it? Just dont expect me to follow your plan just cause u dont agree with mine. I say following iso read on vezo is a good start if any, also again why do u think those 2 cases arent sinister. You seem to think that the logs will be misusued yet dont belive the person who voted them is evil?
That's fair, but even though I think Vezok's proposal was disastrous his advocating for it felt natural. It's not so much that I think he's town, just more that I don't believe he makes that proposal immediately as scum. And I know that seems like wine, but having just come out of a game where we had a merry old time (or at least I did) debating our best lines of actions his proposal felt more like real Vezok than performance Vezok.
Like i told crossbell his post could have come from any alignment because if vezo hadnt brought it up i am sure someone else would have. Have you never experience a game where a scum aligned player suggested a massclaim ?
@Shin 175 is the main one. He earlier calls Last his top town read nakedly and defends it there.
I have seen scum call for a mass claim. I've also seen town call for it. Here I think it was town because I've only seen scum do it when it would be widely seen as beneficial to town, and the way he did it felt like his natural typing voice. See my post 248 for more on that.
As for town reads Rhand is asking great questions and is seeing the game in a way that feels town to me. Very inquisitive. And I felt our interaction over mechanics was natural. On Proph his entry felt like his town game. He might not stick to it, but this is the way he plays as town. As for you; you read exactly like you did in Zero Escape. Completely lacking guile and probing. You're curious and willing to listen to both sides of any argument and are moving your positions around as the information you receive develops.
On your proposal: it's fine to brush it off and just say we disagree, but both of our proposals require widespread town agreement. So just shrugging and saying "agree to disagree it's just mechanics" doesn't really finish the discussion. Why do you think it's valuable for people to out themselves for voting first on an item when they were speculating about what it would do?
On Vezok and the first voter being sinister; I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying the actions on their own without nefarious behavior to tie it to are not nefarious. If Vezok didn't sound so natural I'd be pushing him. His proposal is why my RVS landed on him. But I liked his reaction to my pressure. On the other one, who knows? It's a blind bid number. I have nothing to read them on so I'm giving the benefit of the doubt. Once that bid number is tied to a player I'll reassess.
"Mister Vezokpiraka, being helpful isn't necessarily a town tell, and I largely tuned out the rhetoric regarding the newest members of our little club, here. Why do you find my answer to your inquiry unsatisfactory when I am looking into Lady Dawn's motives for her actions, rather than a shallow interpretation of her behavior?
There is almost certainly no way you are going to be able to convince me you are not a villain, at this point. I do not understand how you have not already been strung up for this nonsense."
Iso turns his attention to Atogaholic.
"Mister Atog, my reasons for inquiring as to your familiarity with Mister Vezokpiraka are simple. You made it a point to force an interaction between the two of you in a very unnatural-seeming way. I believe this is a strong indicator that the two of you are aligned, and not with me."
With a heavy sigh, Iso pulls out his notepad again and begins scribbling furiously. He pauses between thoughts, tapping the cap of the pen against his bottom lip as he does so. The shadows draw nearer, for he is the enlightened one, and yet his cries are in vain. Perhaps he will have to be martyred for the cause.
"Mister Grapefruit, I would really rather you cut it out with your non-sequitur voting. Your posts have absolutely no indication of your voting reasons, and looks simply as though you are supporting any bandwagon that you believe may feasibly gain traction. Yet another reason I believe you have nefarious intent."
I do not see what you are getting at with regards to Mister Vezokpiraka."
Suddenly, a man enters the door. He appears pale and sickly, a near-death pallor overtaking his complexion.
"Good god, it's Mister Cyan! Are you hurt? Are you ill?"
Iso takes a thermometer seemingly out of thin air and jams it into Cyan's mouth.
"What madness or sickness has overcome you? Your ravings are that of a madman! Surely...surely the elder ones have not gotten to you before your arrival?!? Why, my dear friend, the only things you have said that gleam of sense are those regarding Mister Atog and myself!"
The man known as Shinichi approached Iso with a series of inquiries.
"Sir Shinichi, I have mostly glossed over the musings of the players who are in unfamiliar terrain, here. Their stances have not had a major impact on my psyche, and I am largely waiting for some profound wave to be made before I make an assessment one way or the other, as the 'fish out of water' syndrome tends to detrimentally affect my ability to properly analyze newer players. In short: I am waiting to formulate an opinion.
When you refer to 'the idea', are you speaking of the mass auction claim? Because I believe I made my thoughts on the matter - and Mister Vezokpiraka - quite clear. I would advise you to read through the minutes as the times I have spoken, while not great in number, have been quite profound in the content therein. I do not know to what your question about Mister Grapefruit is referring.
As stated previously, my plan is for my eyes, only, at this point in time."
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Togs #221 & #223
-There goes my first contradiction XD, i should say it doesnt strike me as odd as i would like cause i did the same as town during zero escape mafia
-I agree I normally find someone to argue with and then i procede to tunnel them, it just hasnt happened yet just you wait.
-Why am i a town lean I dont get it?
-Also whats ur take on karote and yurkin? As well as shadow and iso?
-The funny part is i agree with togs here something is off about your read if ur reading last as calm and sincere, espically the calm part it would make more sense to have a strong read based on him freaking out.
-I played with Killjoy twice now i believe, so he should be able to read my quite well
-I can see someone doing that its risky and powerwolfy in general but totally plausible. I feel like ive seen KJ do something similar.
@Proph: it’s a gutread. I’m going to trust my gut for now. I think I know how to catch a scum!you on later Days anyways.
What I asked you about Shinichi is just a minor thing that bothered me.
@Iso: it is weird that Vezok refuted a point you hadn’t made, but that doesn’t make him scum. I just freshly finished a game where he was scum, and I think I know what to look for with him. He hasn’t shown scum behaviour yet. Talking mechanics in a mechanical game like this one isn’t alignment telling.
vote: Shadowlancerx
His questions are too random.
It’s starting to look like we might be facing a Shadow/Iso team, which is scary
Disregard that if one of them flips town, but the way Iso talks about Shadow seems off, their interaction is fluffy and now Shadow is asking Proph his opinion on Iso seemingly out of the blue.
@Shadow: I’m fine if you want Proph’s answer first, but:
- why ask Proph?
- why about Iso?
- what is your own take on Iso?
It seems to early to be assuming scum X scum based off early interactions like that, also would ISO come into the game pretty much putting super focus on his own partner?
Also if 1 flips town the other can still be scum am i wrong to think that?
Hi proph.
You mentioned that my post 170 didn’t have a lot coming out of it, which...did you actually read it? Of course it didn’t have much coming out of it, it was primarily questions and general thoughts about how people should play.
What feeling are you getting from Iso so far?
@grapefruit: What do you think of Prophs take on me?
~~~~
@shin/last/dawning: now that you’ve had some solid play here, do you think the others in this grouping have adjusted their play from MAL to here? How confident are you that you could catch each other/other people from MAL if they rolled scum?
Not confident in the slightest, that play style will always be different since the time span goes from short to long.
What feeling are u getting from iso since u ask crossbell that question
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"Mister Grapefruit, I believe that any miscreant, let alone Mister Vezokpiraka, would attempt to get away with an easily explainable, seemingly innocent inquisition such as that nature if they believed they would not necessarily be strung up for it. I do not much care for your continued defense of Mister Vezokpiraka, as your persistence gives me inclination to believe that the two of you are plotting my very murder behind my back, together."
Iso turns away from the insidious man with a sweep of his cloak-like coat and faces Prophylaxis.
"Sir Prophylaxis, I must say that I do not markedly recall those to whom I was referring with regards to pushing Sir Shinichi based on his posting style, but I do not believe Sir Shadowlancerx was one of those people - it was simply a sentiment I recalled hearing as I witnessed the events of this group discussion unfold. If you wish, I can review the minutes to pinpoint exactly to whom I was referring, but ultimately, I expect you would be able to infer for yourself upon a cursory re-read just who those people were. While I don't disagree that Sir Shadowlancerx has not done anything especially indicative action-wise to suggest that he may be on our side, I do not receive a sinister vibe from his machinations; rather, I find his analysis of the situation, while somewhat shallow at present, to be insightful - at least, insofar as it has helped me peer into his mind to determine his allegiances."
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Hm.
Hey Vezok... when you feel these questions have been answered satisfactorally can you tell me about what you think of Iso and Proph and specifically what the answers to these questions contributed towards those reads?
@Proph: It also guages your reactions, which may be of an alignment.
When I asked you that, I didn't actually think maybe THAT question would put me on al alignment for you... but it started a discussion. That was more the point.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
No jest. Just a fellow reading like he did in private and unlike he did in public.
You mentioned that my post 170 didn’t have a lot coming out of it, which...did you actually read it? Of course it didn’t have much coming out of it, it was primarily questions and general thoughts about how people should play.
What feeling are you getting from Iso so far?
@grapefruit: What do you think of Prophs take on me?
~~~~
@shin/last/dawning: now that you’ve had some solid play here, do you think the others in this grouping have adjusted their play from MAL to here? How confident are you that you could catch each other/other people from MAL if they rolled scum?
What I asked you about Shinichi is just a minor thing that bothered me.
@Iso: it is weird that Vezok refuted a point you hadn’t made, but that doesn’t make him scum. I just freshly finished a game where he was scum, and I think I know what to look for with him. He hasn’t shown scum behaviour yet. Talking mechanics in a mechanical game like this one isn’t alignment telling.
vote: Shadowlancerx
His questions are too random.
It’s starting to look like we might be facing a Shadow/Iso team, which is scary
Disregard that if one of them flips town, but the way Iso talks about Shadow seems off, their interaction is fluffy and now Shadow is asking Proph his opinion on Iso seemingly out of the blue.
@Shadow: I’m fine if you want Proph’s answer first, but:
- why ask Proph?
- why about Iso?
- what is your own take on Iso?
In the mean time, talk to me about Terry, specifically have you played much with him before? I really like your stance on him, I think it’s an angle that scum wouldn’t think to take.
@Killjoy: The question for Iso was to try and find out more about his alignment and how he approaches the game. I would have expected town Iso to tell me he likes how Phraze is trying to be generally helpful and provide insight into other MAL players. I think this answer from Iso is just bad, but not alingment telling. I wished he had provided quotes, but oh well.
I'm still waiting for an answer from Proph and will explain later.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
"You have been my friend in the cosmos; you have been my only friend on this planet—the only soul to sense and seek for me within the repellent form which lies on this couch. We shall meet again—perhaps in the shining mists of Orion’s Sword, perhaps on a bleak plateau in prehistoric Asia. Perhaps in unremembered dreams tonight; perhaps in some other form an aeon hence, when the solar system shall have been swept away."
Shadowlancer (2) - Prophylaxis, Rhand
Vaimes (2) - Atogaholic, dawningbluesky
yurkin (2) - DisplayName, Grapefruit21
Atogaholic (1) - Prophylaxis
Cyan (1) - KamikazeArchon
DisplayName (1) - yurkin
Prophylaxis (1) - Vaimes
vezokpiraka (2) - Lastwhisper, Iso
Lastwhisper (1) - Gwendolly
Not voting: Cyan, Killjoy, Shadowlancer, vezokpiraka, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
Day 1 ends on April 20th at 12:00 PM PST
With 19 players alive, it takes 10 votes to lynch.
Gwendolly and Displayname(Karote) have been proded
I still haven’t read the most recent page yet (just skimmed) but I’ll try to get fully caught up after classes today.
:thinking:
I’m afraid I don’t really know Last as well as you seem to think, the only games I think were the one where everyone was town and a micro where he was newb scum, both were early games from him and seeing how much he plays I’d assume he’s improved a lot since then ? TBH I’ve been out of the game for a while in general and right now I’m not fully confident in my own ability to read other people’s meta. I’m actually kind of hoping this is the game that lets me start getting grips on people’s metas again.
As for Shinichi, to be honest he feels different to me.. from both his town and scum games ? I seem to remember him always having some kind of huge argument with someone early on and then posting these giant 12+ post stream of consciousness reactions and he seems to not really be doing those things here. This may be because of the different setting (MARATHON NOT A SPRINT) or just a personality shift in general but it’s not something I could get a meta read on. But I will say I like his activity in the thread and his questions and he’s a town lean for me based on that.
I can agree with this list for light townreads. What are your thoughts about Phraze ?
See above. Why’d you ask me this ?
I did ask for some elaboration of your plan after your entrance then I poked you when you didn’t respond to my thoughts and I poked you again when you didn’t respond to that either.. Basically I want you to acknowledge I exist, lol. I do think it’s kind of weird you didn’t engage me further since I was like, the only guy who voiced support for your plan.
I have absolutely 0 difficulty imagining you actually doing this every time you post.
His name kind of rings a bell but I literally cannot remember any time I played with him. Why do you ask ?
There is no cap on sanity.
You strongly townread Last based on his response where he literally ends with “IDK”, but mine is fence-sitty ?
##unvote, vote: Killjoy
You said you get info from one-on-one interactions, let’s try to get one going.
Have you actually played with Last before ? Have you played with Shinichi, and why was he the one you asked for an opinion on me ?
Do you tink scum!KJ would open up with listing scum!Last as his strongest townread like that ? I’m kind of tinfoiling KJ as scum right now but if he is I feel like Last would actually be town, kind of like a “reasoning is weak because he already knows the answer to the alignment question” kind of thing.
And yes, your questions seem aimless, which is exactly what bothers me. They look like asking questions for the sake of asking questions.
@Atog: KJ and last are seperate and light reads. In that post you quoted KJ diminishes his own read on last, so I guess they could be scum together. It might simply be fear of commiting to a townread on a buddy. But they don’t have to be, and of the two I think KJ is definitely the better lead right now.
It’s pretty strange that KJ doesn’t jump on me calling him possible scum too. As town he usually gets frustrated when I think he’s scum (and vice versa )
I also respectfully request that the arbitrator of our gathering nudge one who has not spoken so far...
Mod: Cyan prod?
I plan on using this each day before item voting occurs and will be open for suggestions... starting tomorrow (since I just burned it today).
If anyone needed more reasons to believe that terry is town, you just got them.
From my perspective terry is conftown.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
like I said before, my understanding of your play is more towards the exposure to you as a player, more than the differences in your town/scum game (of which I have an insufficient sample of).
you tend to talk about "the town mindset" as scum, and talk about "the scum mindset" as town - in other words, you talk a lot about the mindset of your enemy and the standards for it. I see that you're more critical of town this time, and coupled with my given reasons, I worry that you could be scum.
we're some of the most active from MAL, so yes I think the others are adjusting well to this site (just as lurky as over there). I don't play favorites, so no worries there-...or rather, I love to lynch them whenever I can, but end up disappointed.
@Cantripmancer
I have some questions towards your slot (Vaimes), but since they're player-specific, I'll start over with...
out of the new players, who are you most interested in now?
@Prophylaxis
really? good to know I guess
yes, scum!Last is easy to read. he tends to act out of pressure to perform, even when no pressure is placed yet. as town, he just swims the way he wants.
Be grateful, always."
Once again we find another thing the rules have not made explicitly clear.
Abilities are on their own action ability. Which means you have the ability to use both an Item action and an Ability Action in the same night.
Additionally, I made a mistake. Going to -4 Sanity Equals Deaths. Not going below -4 sanity.
Rules have been updated to reflect the latter.
Also Cyan was prodded yesterday and has until Thursday before we seek replacement.
What makes you say he’s conf!town from “your perspective” though?
but no worries, I'm that kind of player toohmmm I see. I don't know. if something concerns me, my favorite weapon is ASK.
Be grateful, always."
Last scum game was an embarrassment on DLP where I replaced in early day 1 and got cop checked N1.
https://forums.darklordpotter.net/threads/tinyhunt-8.37662/
Before that was Zero Escape.
Even if town voted on who gets the logs we couldn't have followed through on that without said person immediately outing their auction number. And if scum did win the auction we'd never know without a full massclaim of auction numbers and a positive flip on said player. Your posts about the D3+ massclaim just don't line up with the subtext here.
I'm not discussing mechanics though, I'm trying to understand Grape's motives in the mechanical discussion he's brought up, and I don't not see a town motivation here. To be honest it wouldn't surprise me if scum!Grape voted for the logs thinking they'd make it on and relied on his teammates to lead the discussion away from the auction number massclaim (since town would most likely go that way rather than outing everything)
And again, no way to do that without first having people claim their auction numbers so we can follow up on if they're going with the plan or not. I'm not against a claim later on when it's relevant but why keep bringing it up (both directly and subtly) on Day 1?
That's info that would be useful to prevent a mislynch to to help POE, but it doesn't help if you die early game without revealing the info and you're setting yourself up as a kill target by announcing it. So how does knowing this now help town?
What?
Was testing your response, wanted to see how it lined up with the entirety of what you said rather than just what I quoted Your answer makes sense in context of what you said there so, town points for you.
This is a vote to see what ends up on the block, and the general appraisers will only come by to ascertain - and publicly proclaim - the item's qualities once the vote is complete.
That said, it seems we do have an appraiser present in this very group, which is fortuitous. Now, by itself, that profession might not tell us of the individual's proclivities; an upstanding townsperson might be so employed, but so could one of the servants of the dark forces of Arkham. They, too, would wish to know what the purpose of various objects is.
A malicious agent would have little reason to disclose their profession and their specific knowledge at this time. To do so binds their options, as we shall now require them to give us information on each forthcoming day, and they know they must be truthful - being caught in a lie here would doom them. I can imagine a sufficiently twisted mind deciding to do this as a sacrifice of sorts, giving up their autonomy to strengthen their masquerade. But this is one of whom opinion had already been positive; would they have needed such an additional effort? I think it unlikely.
(I briefly thought of the idea that the profession itself might be a lie, but discarded it; it would be far too easily and quickly disproven.)
Yet we must halt short of declaring Terry above suspicion entirely, as vezok has. Indeed, I find it curious that vezok would so quickly leap to an absolute statement. Curious, and more; I find it unsettling. Who can be so certain when we are surrounded by treachery and the unknown? The only ones who can be truly certain of anything are those who are already inducted into the foul circles of eldritch worship, for they know their own ranks.
@Dota That was kind of my point. If someone voted for an item I was saying was horrible for town and it went up and was in fact horrible for town. I wanted a mass claim if it didn't go to town approved hands. For instance if the logs did go up despite thanks to Terry knowing that's an awful idea, we as a town might decree that anyone except Terry who voted for it would be lynched. And if someone broke that then we mass claim. That ultimatum should prevent it from happening and keep the item out of scum hands without causing a mass claim. And lying opens up a true 50/50 on D1.
@Gwen my statement there was because I know we have players in this game who aren't inclined to think mechanically (see thinking that the original bidder in the auction house should out themselves). As a result while I'm very confident more votes on the Logs are bad for town, I'm equally confident someone would have voted for it as town.
Whoever made the point that casual and relaxed doesn't describe Wisp's game as either alignment was onto something.
Vote: KJ
This is the post I keep coming back to of Wisp's that feels wrong. He enjoys banter and RVS, but this is forced. It looks nervous about Shin calling him out and pushes back in a way that's more than just Banter. It's a real push back and I don't see town wisp feeling like he has to make that over Shin poking at him over RVS.
Compare this to post 273 here and tell me this isn't a similar tone and idea. 217 is another example that feels very similar to me. Yes he was scum there, but those were genuine proposals. And to me they read very differently from his in thread push on Az.
Grapefruit, in these words:
You propose a list of those who you find most honest and trustworthy. Yet earlier you had mentioned myself positively more than once. Why the omission? Also, you are defending vezok against another's attack - but have omitted him either.
Further, you have cast a vote against Killjoy yet all your words speak of suspicion of others, notably of Lastwhisper.
Why all these inconsistencies?
..This is just a million word way of saying that we should reveal who we are when we're bidding on auction items, right?
Assuming so, I'm in favor. Though admittedly I'm still having some trouble figuring out that part of the game.
Now that I read more clearly, I see that Vezok proposed this and you're basically just disagreeing with it, which is troubling to me.
This is all that seems worth commenting at the end of Page 1(which is 50 posts for me). Disappointing. Page 2 next post.
This post feels bad to me. It comes across like Proph is just saying what he thinks should be said; and is not necessarily saying what he believes(particularly re: item claim discussion).
I like this defense by Vezok. It comes across like he genuinely believes what he is saying.
Rhand's item speculation feels like a town post for him. If he were scum, I'd expect him to not make this post.
Terry's reaction to Rhand's speculation here feels opportunistic in a bad way, especially the part where he asks him why he's speculating on this instead of hunting for scum. This is a cheap shot.
End Page 2.
This is yet another question I wouldn't expect scum-Rhand to ask.
This feels like a completely honest assessment by Vaimes.
That's all that stuck out for me on Page 3.
My good feelings for you dissipated a bit when I was informed the posting restriction was planned in pregame. I do have good feelings about you, but not as strongly as towards the others. Iso's entrance is better than yours, but yours isn't bad.
As for KJ over Last, I have a few niggling doubts about Last that I want other opinions on, while Tog's 223 made a good case about KJ.
This is yet another question I wouldn't expect scum-Rhand to ask.
This feels like a completely honest assessment by Vaimes.
That's all that stuck out for me on Page 3.
This post by Atog, especially in context with the rest of his posts, feels super scummy. It just doesn't make sense coming from a town perspective.
I generally like this Iso post.
End Page 4.
Also Vote Atog
Why does is matter? Does it make iso scummy just cause his way of posting is similar to Kamis? I think the way he came into the game is a huge town tell, later in the game his ego will prob show giving me a harder time to read into him.
Can u give more thoughts on iso?
I was only scum once in MTG -.-, which was last game XD. Also my grammar and just terrible wording always bites me in the ass when comes to mafia.
Btw what do you think of ISO first post?
Always though u seemed like a mechanical kind of person, do you not like the idea of getting all the mechanics talk out before day 1 is over?
Its too early to just trust eachother, in mafia everyones guilty till proven innocent. YOu cant just expect GF or anyone else to just trust someone, thats what interactions are for.
IF anything those wild reactions from kyle are null because ive seen him do them as both and if i read him based on that OOG situations would just cause me to read him as town everytime.
Welcome to the game
What do u think of the players your new to playing with
What do you think of vezo and GF theories on how the auction house should be handled?
Is this town terry?
Do u really believe ISO came into the game and specifically decidied to post in a way just so u could read him better?
Why doesnt it matter if this is his first real contribution, i feel like your afraid of how ISO entered the game and pounced right on you.
Not sure it should make a difference
Outside of terry and ISO who i get good vibes from, why the rest espically me?
THen dont agree with it? Just dont expect me to follow your plan just cause u dont agree with mine. I say following iso read on vezo is a good start if any, also again why do u think those 2 cases arent sinister. You seem to think that the logs will be misusued yet dont belive the person who voted them is evil?
Like i told crossbell his post could have come from any alignment because if vezo hadnt brought it up i am sure someone else would have. Have you never experience a game where a scum aligned player suggested a massclaim ?
whats the post number ffor this read and ill give my opinion on it unless i find it while catching up
I have seen scum call for a mass claim. I've also seen town call for it. Here I think it was town because I've only seen scum do it when it would be widely seen as beneficial to town, and the way he did it felt like his natural typing voice. See my post 248 for more on that.
As for town reads Rhand is asking great questions and is seeing the game in a way that feels town to me. Very inquisitive. And I felt our interaction over mechanics was natural. On Proph his entry felt like his town game. He might not stick to it, but this is the way he plays as town. As for you; you read exactly like you did in Zero Escape. Completely lacking guile and probing. You're curious and willing to listen to both sides of any argument and are moving your positions around as the information you receive develops.
On your proposal: it's fine to brush it off and just say we disagree, but both of our proposals require widespread town agreement. So just shrugging and saying "agree to disagree it's just mechanics" doesn't really finish the discussion. Why do you think it's valuable for people to out themselves for voting first on an item when they were speculating about what it would do?
On Vezok and the first voter being sinister; I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying the actions on their own without nefarious behavior to tie it to are not nefarious. If Vezok didn't sound so natural I'd be pushing him. His proposal is why my RVS landed on him. But I liked his reaction to my pressure. On the other one, who knows? It's a blind bid number. I have nothing to read them on so I'm giving the benefit of the doubt. Once that bid number is tied to a player I'll reassess.
There is almost certainly no way you are going to be able to convince me you are not a villain, at this point. I do not understand how you have not already been strung up for this nonsense."
Iso turns his attention to Atogaholic.
"Mister Atog, my reasons for inquiring as to your familiarity with Mister Vezokpiraka are simple. You made it a point to force an interaction between the two of you in a very unnatural-seeming way. I believe this is a strong indicator that the two of you are aligned, and not with me."
With a heavy sigh, Iso pulls out his notepad again and begins scribbling furiously. He pauses between thoughts, tapping the cap of the pen against his bottom lip as he does so. The shadows draw nearer, for he is the enlightened one, and yet his cries are in vain. Perhaps he will have to be martyred for the cause.
"Mister Grapefruit, I would really rather you cut it out with your non-sequitur voting. Your posts have absolutely no indication of your voting reasons, and looks simply as though you are supporting any bandwagon that you believe may feasibly gain traction. Yet another reason I believe you have nefarious intent."
I do not see what you are getting at with regards to Mister Vezokpiraka."
Suddenly, a man enters the door. He appears pale and sickly, a near-death pallor overtaking his complexion.
"Good god, it's Mister Cyan! Are you hurt? Are you ill?"
Iso takes a thermometer seemingly out of thin air and jams it into Cyan's mouth.
"What madness or sickness has overcome you? Your ravings are that of a madman! Surely...surely the elder ones have not gotten to you before your arrival?!? Why, my dear friend, the only things you have said that gleam of sense are those regarding Mister Atog and myself!"
The man known as Shinichi approached Iso with a series of inquiries.
"Sir Shinichi, I have mostly glossed over the musings of the players who are in unfamiliar terrain, here. Their stances have not had a major impact on my psyche, and I am largely waiting for some profound wave to be made before I make an assessment one way or the other, as the 'fish out of water' syndrome tends to detrimentally affect my ability to properly analyze newer players. In short: I am waiting to formulate an opinion.
When you refer to 'the idea', are you speaking of the mass auction claim? Because I believe I made my thoughts on the matter - and Mister Vezokpiraka - quite clear. I would advise you to read through the minutes as the times I have spoken, while not great in number, have been quite profound in the content therein. I do not know to what your question about Mister Grapefruit is referring.
As stated previously, my plan is for my eyes, only, at this point in time."
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
It seems to early to be assuming scum X scum based off early interactions like that, also would ISO come into the game pretty much putting super focus on his own partner?
Also if 1 flips town the other can still be scum am i wrong to think that?
Not confident in the slightest, that play style will always be different since the time span goes from short to long.
What feeling are u getting from iso since u ask crossbell that question