I wasn't expecting a bodyguard. There were two possibilities. Either everyone was vanila or someone was a bodyguard. In the second case, you could do a process of elimination and realise that there are few people in the game who could be bodyguard. Cantrip and shadow were pretty obviously not the bodyguard in the way they responded to the mass claim proposal. Rumanashi's questions about the setup made it clear he wasn't it either. That left you, Phraze and Anak as possibilities. Anak would have most definitely targeted tom at night. That left you and Phraze. Of you two, I felt you had a bigger chance of targeting tom at night while also not really playing like a bodyguard all game, but I wouldn't have been surprised if you claimed it.
As you can see it was pretty obvious that if someone were to claim bodyguard, Phraze was the biggest possibility for it.
if you thought I had the biggest chance of being bodyguard, why didn't you straight-up ask me if I was one (with the reasons you've just given)? why place me in the lowest of scumreads instead, without talking about your suspicions?
That means I'm left with Anak and someone else as a scumteam, most probably shadow, but shadow has done some things that I feel don't come from scum shadow. Mostly fighting Rumanashi yesterday about nothing in particular and then townclearing him today.
I kinda like this though, you're not sure about Shadow and brought back notice to the townclearing.
@DBS: I mostly disagree with your thoughts on what Osie should have done, and I completely disagree with your bodyguard target choice, but discussing it further is no longer productive for immediate purposes. I'd love to talk about both of these further during post-game, though.
good to know you understand it, at least.
considering I was in the middle of 2 choices, I just felt protecting from possible vig was more informative than saving a possible jailer. vig column will still net 2 dead bodies, so I'd rather have some solid info for next Day than WIFOM.
If someone could explain the grid to me, does that mean there are actually 3 scum? Because of the mafia goon in the grid? I'm confused as OP states there are 2 Mafia? Please enlighten me.
I think the game is vanilla at this point. I know the odds are 50/50 and I have no real reason to think one way or the other, just what I think.
I don't know for sure why massclaiming is a meta here but it's too early for a bodyguard to claim if there is one. They should still claim if they're about to be lynched of course
Rumanshi seems to be really looking into what the scumteam might or might not have.
Shadow wants to townblock asap.
Emcee is making up his own theories. theories that the informed mindset know, and wouldn't want to mess with when the real bodyguard appears.
had my worries since, even with my claim, there were still 4 to sift through. Emcee has done plenty to bring my PoE down, so thanks.
that leaves me with...
dead town: Osie/Tom
me: Dawn
good: Rumanshi/Shadow/Emcee
bad: Anak/Cantrip/Vezok
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
I'm mostly referring to your behavior at EoD as well as the general incrimination of both people on your wagon being town
basically convince me why you felt you were under so much pressure yesterday
I want you to be town here because aside from these few things you've been moderately towny. I don't care if your reads were bad
@Dawn: It's a really bad idea to ask a person you think is scum if they are a PR as it might give them an out if they didn't think about it before.
hmm fair enough. I would usually put someone in null if my thoughts on them are a scumread + counter-reason.
possible difference in approach/playstyle.
Unvote
before any ninja hammering happens
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
I'm mostly referring to your behavior at EoD as well as the general incrimination of both people on your wagon being town
basically convince me why you felt you were under so much pressure yesterday
I want you to be town here because aside from these few things you've been moderately towny. I don't care if your reads were bad
Well, people always think I'm somewhat scummy in almost every game I've played both as town and as scum. I believe people latched onto me as they thought I was scum for ok reasons. I was attacking both tom and osie who both flipped town so from their perspective I would come up worse.
I also didn't feel I was under much pressure. I'm used to being wagoned and haven't felt pressure in a long while.
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there were 2 people on your wagon and you were talking about what you wanted us to do if you died
how can you behave like that and say you didn't feel under pressure
He posted infrequently, but you’ll notice the quality difference. It was very clear that he was town in that game, he took some heat for sure, but he actually showed critical thinking, depth of reads, and analysis of the gamestate for himself. That isn’t present here.
@Anak I am fairly sure voicing an opinion is not a clarification, Anak.
It's not his opinion I'm referring to, it's the lynching me to catch scum line. Why else are you lynching people? His opinion is something he is entitled to certainly.
@Mikey I already talked about what they said and what I interpreted from it, is there some part you are curious about?
@Shadow This is going to be exhibit A on why meta reads aren't worth a *****. Using that game as an example of me being town, when I got day vigged by town without any real objection. And even if I looked town in retrospect, I could point out town games of mine where that wasn't true.
Quite frankly thats such a bad argument I'm beginning to wonder if you are scum yourself trying to get one of the other vets mislynched to clear your path
@Anak I am fairly sure voicing an opinion is not a clarification, Anak.
It's not his opinion I'm referring to, it's the lynching me to catch scum line. Why else are you lynching people? His opinion is something he is entitled to certainly.
His opinion is that lynching you will get scum. You're not making sense.
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I am also called Riku. I tend to prefer being called riku.
@Shadow This is going to be exhibit A on why meta reads aren't worth a *****. Using that game as an example of me being town, when I got day vigged by town without any real objection. And even if I looked town in retrospect, I could point out town games of mine where that wasn't true.
Quite frankly thats such a bad argument I'm beginning to wonder if you are scum yourself trying to get one of the other vets mislynched to clear your path
For the sake of argument, let’s say you are town; what are you doing? You have no original thoughts this game, who do you think is scum? Do you think Dawning would fake claim bodyguard as scum? Like, give me something to work with here, because I just don’t believe town!you is this in the background. I’ve seen you hide in the background as scum though.
man these uber long phases are honestly a drag
do yall ever have quicker games
anyway I'm not sure I've got much more to say
both scum were on osie's wagon yesterday and if dbs is bodyguard that leaves rumanshi/shadow/vezok/anak in some combination
day one based on reads I would have said rumanshi and shadow were the scummiest but they were bussing each other (or shadow was bussing rumanshi)
shadow's flip on an obviously fake dumbtell is soooo bad
shadow wolf flip clears anak imo
a wolf flip from rumanshi/anak/vezok doesn't clear anyone else in that group of four
town flip from any of those four doesn't do a lot either I think
if we don't hit a wolf today I think our chances of winning this game in lylo are pretty low.
rumanshi flipping wolf doesn't even necessarily incriminate anyone else afaik
vezok is high risk high reward, if he's not a wolf we get almost no info from his reads since he scum read dead people and he keeps flipping on everyone basically
excuse u I care very much
I want rumanshi to be lynched today
I don't want anak or vezok to be lynched because of gut but they're not making good cases for themselves atm. That's what I'm asking them to do
excuse u I care very much
I want rumanshi to be lynched today
I don't want anak or vezok to be lynched because of gut but they're not making good cases for themselves atm. That's what I'm asking them to do
excuse u I care very much
I want rumanshi to be lynched today
I don't want anak or vezok to be lynched because of gut but they're not making good cases for themselves atm. That's what I'm asking them to do
I've never seen anyone so single minded who is scum @Shadow. This is why emcee is town in my mind.
vote:Anak
I went through his Iso. Nothing is very helpful for town.
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I am also called Riku. I tend to prefer being called riku.
He posted infrequently, but you’ll notice the quality difference. It was very clear that he was town in that game, he took some heat for sure, but he actually showed critical thinking, depth of reads, and analysis of the gamestate for himself. That isn’t present here.
Anak is scum.
I recall that post I quoted, about Anak saying how his scumgames look much weaker than his towngames. considering that, and my one game with him in Haiku mafia, I can see what you mean. but who do you think he would be scum with, then?
what do you think of Rumanshi's post that I townread? it looks like something from an uninformed mindset. here is Rumanshi's scum meta. I'd admit I've never played against scum!Rumanshi before, and only observed a scum performance, but he still feels similar to the towngames I've seen from him.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
@Ruma: Mikey hasn’t even been that single minded though; he was on Vezok when that wagon was going, his reasoning being that Vezok was “acting strangely”.
@dawning: I think Mikey could be a partner for Anak, he’s had very little to actually say about him.
Also, I still have that weird feeling in the back of my mind that you could be scum, but I’d rather not think of that. I’m hoping you get solved for us tonight.
How does the back and forth between Dawning and Vezok specifically make them both town if they’re not buddies?
Vezok is town because of his behavior, Dawning is town because, as Vezok pointed out, no scum fakeclaims bodyguard with that explanation when there's plenty of easier explanations that will draw less suspicion.
Quote from Shadow »
Quote from Cantrip »
@Shadow: I agree that Anak's been pretty absent. But I think that makes him more likely, not less, to be town in light of Tom's kill. Coasting scum are unlikely to kill players who are gut-reading them town. I definitely approve of the pressure on him, though, since last time it seemed to help produce content.
Thats my whole point though, scum!Anak knows that Tom will catch him.
Walk me through the logic of how lurking is a town!Anak tactic here? I’ve seen town Anak, he garners some heat sure, but he also shows up and plays.
I didn't say it made Anak town, just more likely to be town than I thought before. His recent posts have contributed practically nothing, so I'm again thinking he's lurking scum.
is there any way to ping players? I want to call out both vezok and anak to post more if they're town, because I feel they're both in danger of getting mislynched and should be concerned with that
@Cantrip I went back and looked at what the two dead players were saying because they are both good and town. I was dead wrong on what I was reading from people yesterday, so I thought the best way to try and get my head.on straight was to look at what they had to say. Obviously I plan to scum hunt today, that's the point of starting there.
Ok, but dead town opinions always have to be taken with a grain of salt (and tempered by what's learned in the game subsequent to the town-player's death). Looking at two dead townies and saying "oh hey, they both suspected the same players, those players must be scum!!1!" is an extremely lazy and (imo) unreliable process. And when are you going to start scumhunting? Because /barning dead players is NOT scumhunting.
@Anak I am fairly sure voicing an opinion is not a clarification, Anak.
It's not his opinion I'm referring to, it's the lynching me to catch scum line. Why else are you lynching people? His opinion is something he is entitled to certainly.
@Mikey I already talked about what they said and what I interpreted from it, is there some part you are curious about?
@Shadow This is going to be exhibit A on why meta reads aren't worth a *****. Using that game as an example of me being town, when I got day vigged by town without any real objection. And even if I looked town in retrospect, I could point out town games of mine where that wasn't true.
Quite frankly thats such a bad argument I'm beginning to wonder if you are scum yourself trying to get one of the other vets mislynched to clear your path
What in this post is productive, Anak? You clarify a little to Rumanshi, ok, but then you tell Mikey to do his own homework (acceptable, but not scumhunting), you defend yourself from Shadow's meta attack by saying "wow, when this game's over I'll be able to use this as an example that meta doesn't do jack" and "nope, doesn't count", and then you practically OMGUS Shadow. The argument that he's trying to get "one of the other vets mislynched" is laughable. You may be a vet, but you're not doing anything this game. I'd accept the argument that Shadow's using bad arguments to go after low-hanging fruit, but this approach rings very hollow given your lack of contribution so far.
man these uber long phases are honestly a drag
do yall ever have quicker games
Lol, I started here, so when I tried a 5-day game on another site I had to go awol for 24 hours and came back and was like what happened, I blinked.
I like my slower games because of my real life commitments.
Quote from Mikey »
both scum were on osie's wagon yesterday
Why so confident?
Quote from Mikey »
day one based on reads I would have said rumanshi and shadow were the scummiest but they were bussing each other (or shadow was bussing rumanshi)
Why do you think this makes them less likely to be scum together?
Quote from Mikey »
shadow's flip on an obviously fake dumbtell is soooo bad
shadow wolf flip clears anak imo
a wolf flip from rumanshi/anak/vezok doesn't clear anyone else in that group of four
town flip from any of those four doesn't do a lot either I think
if we don't hit a wolf today I think our chances of winning this game in lylo are pretty low.
rumanshi flipping wolf doesn't even necessarily incriminate anyone else afaik
vezok is high risk high reward, if he's not a wolf we get almost no info from his reads since he scum read dead people and he keeps flipping on everyone basically
I'm trying to reconcile where you say "vezok doesn't clear anyone else in that group of four" with your last line where you call him high risk high reward. If he doesn't clear anyone if he flips wolf, how is he high reward?
what do you think of Rumanshi's post that I townread? it looks like something from an uninformed mindset.
I'd like to chime in on this, but I'll let Mikey respond first. Someone remind me to come back to this if I forget.
Quote from DBS »
here is Rumanshi's scum meta. I'd admit I've never played against scum!Rumanshi before, and only observed a scum performance, but he still feels similar to the towngames I've seen from him.
No offense, but I'm struggling to see how you expect people to even sort of easily compare Rumanshi's meta in a structured-post game like Haiku to help with their reads here. Maybe it'd be different if I'd already read Haiku (which I want to do, but...), but just reading through his ISO there isn't really giving me much. Can you clarify what you see there that you don't see here?
@Ruma: Mikey hasn’t even been that single minded though; he was on Vezok when that wagon was going, his reasoning being that Vezok was “acting strangely”.
@dawning: I think Mikey could be a partner for Anak, he’s had very little to actually say about him.
Also, I still have that weird feeling in the back of my mind that you could be scum, but I’d rather not think of that. I’m hoping you get solved for us tonight.
Hmmm...
@Shadow: Your top three townreads, please?
Given the snailish pace of the thread recently, I'm tempted to hammer Anak. I think he's highly likely to be scum after his recent posts, which consist of fluff and self-defense, and he's made it pretty clear that he's not interested in providing content. But I don't want to end conversation prematurely, and I'd like some responses to what I asked above. If you have something to say (or if anyone strongly feels Anak isn't scum), go to, please.
I'd like to hear more from anak before he gets hammered, just for peace of mind. (i don't know when the deadline hits, I assume it's at least more than a day. )
I had this crazy thought that a Rumanashi shadow scum team is possible, but I fear the game would already be lost in this situation.
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Nothing in the last 9 hours except Vezok tinfoiling?
@Mod-DoTA:When tomorrow is the deadline?
Isn't deadline the 13th of April?
Now why did I think the deadline was tomorrow??? I even scrolled up to DoTA's last post and *thought* I looked at that date...
Oh, hey, Rumanshi! I'm on for a bit. Engage me. Start by answering my question, then hit me with something scathing or insightful. Let's figure stuff out.
Nothing in the last 9 hours except Vezok tinfoiling?
@Mod-DoTA:When tomorrow is the deadline?
Isn't deadline the 13th of April?
Now why did I think the deadline was tomorrow??? I even scrolled up to DoTA's last post and *thought* I looked at that date...
Oh, hey, Rumanshi! I'm on for a bit. Engage me. Start by answering my question, then hit me with something scathing or insightful. Let's figure stuff out.
I'm not sure what you're really asking elaborated... I was predicting who could be scum with Anak. Based on voting patterns, you were a likely candidate. However, the interactions you had saying lynch Anak for nitpicking, seemed townleaning rather than a scum thing.
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I am also called Riku. I tend to prefer being called riku.
I'm not sure what you're really asking elaborated... I was predicting who could be scum with Anak. Based on voting patterns, you were a likely candidate. However, the interactions you had saying lynch Anak for nitpicking, seemed townleaning rather than a scum thing.
Ah. Ok, that clarifies just fine.
But where's the scathing or insightful response? Ask me something. How are you going to figure me out?
I'm not sure what you're really asking elaborated... I was predicting who could be scum with Anak. Based on voting patterns, you were a likely candidate. However, the interactions you had saying lynch Anak for nitpicking, seemed townleaning rather than a scum thing.
Ah. Ok, that clarifies just fine.
But where's the scathing or insightful response? Ask me something. How are you going to figure me out?
I don't have anything scathing or insightful. Everything i have, has been shared so far.
I'm not going to figure you out for now. I'm going to see if Anak has anything further as a defense, then see if they are scum or not. Figuring out the others comes after not before.
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I am also called Riku. I tend to prefer being called riku.
How does the back and forth between Dawning and Vezok specifically make them both town if they’re not buddies?
Vezok is town because of his behavior, Dawning is town because, as Vezok pointed out, no scum fakeclaims bodyguard with that explanation when there's plenty of easier explanations that will draw less suspicion.
Obligatory “Saying ‘no scum does x’ is a great way to lose the game.”
I’m getting worse and worse feelings about Mikey as this day progresses.
Frankly it feels like he straight up doesn’t actually care who gets lynched, and he’s try to dress that up as unsure analysis.
Show me where he doesn't care who gets lynched?
Post 565 is a lot of words that talks almost ethereally about lynching several players, giving no actual indication that he cares between them.
Quote from Cantrip »
@Shadow: Your top three townreads, please?
I have pretty high confidence in Ruma because that dumbtell looks like an actual thought he had.
I think you’re town, and you haven’t truly fooled me yet, so I’m pretty sure I’d catch you. Plus I don’t think you throw Anak under the bus quite like you pushed him in a two scum game.
After that it gets a little muddy, but I actually think Vezok is reasonably likely to be town. He’s one I’ll probably read overnight if I have time just to check interactions with Anak.
here is Rumanshi's scum meta. I'd admit I've never played against scum!Rumanshi before, and only observed a scum performance, but he still feels similar to the towngames I've seen from him.
No offense, but I'm struggling to see how you expect people to even sort of easily compare Rumanshi's meta in a structured-post game like Haiku to help with their reads here. Maybe it'd be different if I'd already read Haiku (which I want to do, but...), but just reading through his ISO there isn't really giving me much. Can you clarify what you see there that you don't see here?
I've said this earlier on, Rumanshi would be contented sitting on the background - he fabricates reads when cornered, and won't do more than necessary. in this game, he's pushing his thoughts and things, without us needing to poke him (like when he speculated about the grid).
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Obligatory “Saying ‘no scum does x’ is a great way to lose the game.”
Obligatory Summon Occam's Razor.
Quote from Shadow »
Post 565 is a lot of words that talks almost ethereally about lynching several players, giving no actual indication that he cares between them.
I just saw that as more stream of consciousness wordspew. But I did have questions about it. Which he's ignoring.
Quote from Shadow »
Quote from Cantrip »
@Shadow: Your top three townreads, please?
I have pretty high confidence in Ruma because that dumbtell looks like an actual thought he had.
I think you’re town, and you haven’t truly fooled me yet, so I’m pretty sure I’d catch you. Plus I don’t think you throw Anak under the bus quite like you pushed him in a two scum game.
After that it gets a little muddy, but I actually think Vezok is reasonably likely to be town. He’s one I’ll probably read overnight if I have time just to check interactions with Anak.
Oooookay, wanted to get that on record as I really don't like the out you're leaving with DBS when you say "Also, I still have that weird feeling in the back of my mind that you could be scum, but I’d rather not think of that. I’m hoping you get solved for us tonight." It sounds a lot like something scum would say to psudo-confirmed town that they don't plan to kill. In a closed setup, I could see this being said by a vig, or as a recommendation to the vig, but in this setup... Yeah, that comment felt all kinds of icky. I think that if you're scum, there's a fair chance that Anak or Vezok is your buddy.
most important question I saw me asked was about "both scum being on osie's wagon"
the alternative is that me or cantrip is scum and cantrip is the one who brought this up :thinking:
You'd do better to actually read the questions (and maybe answer them). I'm asking why you're so confident in that statement. You're townreading me. I get it. But you keep making these really specific statements that sound like you know, and I'm trying to figure out where that's coming from.
I'm willing to "hammer" anak if it means the game progresses faster
we can run in circles for days like this but without another flip we have nothing to go on
I'd like to give Anak at least one more chance to post and contribute. I of all people know that real life sometimes presents challenges, so I'd rather give him one more chance. He didn't post last night, so tonight will be his 48 hour mark (he's pretty consistently managed at least one post every 48, just barely staying out of prod range).
I told rumanshi why his dumbtell is fake. It's obviously fake. The question is whether he's trying to do this as town or scum.
Cantrip, it's simple process of elimination. Why are you so hung up over it? If I think you're a human (which I do) then logically I'd have to think both wolves were on osie's wagon (which I think they are). And yeah it's stream of consciousness, I was trying to figure out alignments based on potential flips and didn't really arrive at much
vezok is high risk/high reward because if he's town his flip doesn't really do a lot for us in terms of his reads, but if he's a wolf we hit a wolf
odds are probably low
This is pretty dumb but i've only ever seen humans mention occam's razor in any capacity
soooo
anak jumps on me for a math screwup
it becomes a pretty big deal to a few players, including rumanshi who is directly aware of the math
he knows there are 2 mafia at this point, if he doesn't then he's not even trying and making things up
so him asking to the thread "wait how many mafia are there" (paraphrased) is him trying to be town read instead of just reading the OP
I could have asked something like "do the wolves have a private chat" but instead I read the op where it says they have nighttalk only (iirc)
are you telling me doing so would have given me a blanket town read by several players? Seems sketchy.
I dunno if shadowlancer is a good player or anything but an immediate "oh haha wow he's town" reaction is most likely to be something they concocted during nighttalk to avoid bussing again
this is all very conspiracy-ish and displays quite a bit of confirmation bias which I am aware of
it's still a possibility that I'm considering
cantrip's analysis of DBS is solid I think
if the vigi was in play I don't think they'd have killed rumanshi, since the generally accepted vigi shot there is vezok
even if DBS had tried to block a vigi shot on vezok that would've been a terrible thing to do since vezok is still likely to get voted if he was voted for day 1
guarding rumanshi is just so out there that unless DBS thought me or shadowlancer was possibly the vigi I don't think it's something you just make up
I told rumanshi why his dumbtell is fake. It's obviously fake. The question is whether he's trying to do this as town or scum.
Cantrip, it's simple process of elimination. Why are you so hung up over it? If I think you're a human (which I do) then logically I'd have to think both wolves were on osie's wagon (which I think they are). And yeah it's stream of consciousness, I was trying to figure out alignments based on potential flips and didn't really arrive at much
vezok is high risk/high reward because if he's town his flip doesn't really do a lot for us in terms of his reads, but if he's a wolf we hit a wolf
odds are probably low
This is pretty dumb but i've only ever seen humans mention occam's razor in any capacity
soooo
anak jumps on me for a math screwup
it becomes a pretty big deal to a few players, including rumanshi who is directly aware of the math
he knows there are 2 mafia at this point, if he doesn't then he's not even trying and making things up
so him asking to the thread "wait how many mafia are there" (paraphrased) is him trying to be town read instead of just reading the OP
I could have asked something like "do the wolves have a private chat" but instead I read the op where it says they have nighttalk only (iirc)
are you telling me doing so would have given me a blanket town read by several players? Seems sketchy.
I dunno if shadowlancer is a good player or anything but an immediate "oh haha wow he's town" reaction is most likely to be something they concocted during nighttalk to avoid bussing again
this is all very conspiracy-ish and displays quite a bit of confirmation bias which I am aware of
it's still a possibility that I'm considering
suggesting those scenarios are possibly fabricated is wine (WIFOM). an informed and uninformed mindset think differently, and the informed mindset is more limited in performance due to their information.
it's the same as how I said you could be town because you suggested we're down to only vanilla, something that will be cc'd by the BODYGUARD in play and it would lock scum into a dichotomy if they tried to discredit it later - the real scum won't feel comfortable with that, would they?
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
@Cantripmancer @Emcee
I would like to hear your thoughts on the posts I townread. what about them looks fake? in detail, please
I questioned the one you quoted from Rumanshi, as it seemed really odd that he would only be noticing that aspect of the grid at that point. Especially added to what Mikey pointed out about how he should have been fully aware that there are only two scum, I could see it being fabricated, especially if Shadow was in on crafting it, as I know Shadow is really good about thinking outside the box. I don't know that it's likely, though, and I wouldn't lynch Rumanshi off of it alone.
Shadow's post felt fine, mostly because I feel like scum!Shadow wouldn't do that to a buddy's post. Whether cooked up during N1 or by complete coincidence, if his scum-buddy Rumanshi makes an innocent town post in an attempt to buy town pants, Shadow is really unlikely to be the one to prop it up. Especially only 1.5 hours after Rumanshi made the post. Scum!Shadow would be a lot more likely, imo, to wait and see if a townie would prop that up.
Huh. I think I just figured out that Shadow and Rumanshi aren't scumbuddies. Sweet.
On the flip side, might scum!Shadow prop up town!Rumanshi's post? That's a little more believable, and maybe accounts for the feel that Mikey's noting. It still feels like scum!Shadow would be less anxious to townclear Rumanshi on something like that, but it's possible.
As for the post of Mikey's you quoted, if Mikey was a little less transparent, I could totally see it being a crafted post, with a dual purpose to buy townpants and also to "say what a good townie should say". That is, by stating something scum!Mikey knows is false, he comes off looking uninformed, and the second part of that statement is "no, of course the protective town PR shouldn't claim". But given the rest of his behavior, I agree with your townread on that post. But it's "MoreTown Icing" to me rather than a pivotal "he's so obvtown" singular post.
Cantrip, it's simple process of elimination. Why are you so hung up over it? If I think you're a human (which I do) then logically I'd have to think both wolves were on osie's wagon (which I think they are). And yeah it's stream of consciousness, I was trying to figure out alignments based on potential flips and didn't really arrive at much
I'm hung up because you're making me a bit paranoid. I'm pretty sure you're town, but you're towning me based on me towning you (well, how I'm towning you), and while most of your posts are sort of tentative in certainty, every once in a while you say something like it's fact when you shouldn't be able to tell if it's fact or not. So. Yeah. Paranoid.
Quote from Mikey »
vezok is high risk/high reward because if he's town his flip doesn't really do a lot for us in terms of his reads, but if he's a wolf we hit a wolf
I guess I don't see the "high reward" (as opposed to any other potential suspect).
Quote from Mikey »
I could have asked something like "do the wolves have a private chat" but instead I read the op where it says they have nighttalk only (iirc)
Um...I don't see anything of the sort in the OP...?
Quote from Shadow »
I dunno if shadowlancer is a good player or anything but an immediate "oh haha wow he's town" reaction is most likely to be something they concocted during nighttalk to avoid bussing again
Shadow is a very good scum player. So good I don't think he makes that post in response to a buddy's post.
cantrip's analysis of DBS is solid I think
if the vigi was in play I don't think they'd have killed rumanshi, since the generally accepted vigi shot there is vezok
even if DBS had tried to block a vigi shot on vezok that would've been a terrible thing to do since vezok is still likely to get voted if he was voted for day 1
guarding rumanshi is just so out there that unless DBS thought me or shadowlancer was possibly the vigi I don't think it's something you just make up
So...here's an example. Many of your posts are like this. You stream of consciousness the problem and never really state anything conclusive. You say "Cantrip's analysis", but that was DBS's analysis, which I was agreeing with. And it partially sounds like you're saying you DON'T believe DBS's claim...but then the last line sounds like you DO believe it?
In the Mafia subforum where all the game links are listed, click on the number in the "Replies" column on the right, then click on the number of posts for the player you want to ISO.
Go to the main forum page, click on the number next to the thread title and click on the number next to the person’s name that you want to iso.
@Mikey: What reason could Ruma have for taking a dumbtell as town?
@Cantrip: I got burned in OTG2 by an uncounterable fake claim; and on top of that, dawning has played markedly different this game than the ones I’ve been in with her previously.
I don't know, would they? Being scum in general is uncomfortable if you're not experienced with it
I don't think it's wifom to suggest the whole thing is fabricated
the dumbtell itself is fake, why not the response to it?
the restrictions of an informed mindset is that they have the facts, so it would be hard for them to act like they're clueless. it's near WIFOM territory to believe they can act clueless so easily. and subconsciously, an informed mindset will see no need to discredit what they know is truth (and they know that a bodyguard is in play).
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@cantrip
yup it pays to read the OP
I could see a (not amazing) town player faking a dumbtell hoping to pass it off as real, because if they do they've got a free town pass
if this isn't a fake dumbtell rumanshi's been making things up this entire game more or less and I dunno if you know we should Lynch All Liars
so it's more likely to be a fake dumbtell and I don't know if rumanshi does that as town, wolf, both, or what, but given I've been wolf reading him up to this point it should be more evidence he's a wolf to me
As much as lynch all liars is great in theory, it gets misapplied so much as well as applied to town FPSing that it’s one of those “no responsibility” rules that I just don’t like.
the restrictions of an informed mindset is that they have the facts, so it would be hard for them to act like they're clueless. it's near WIFOM territory to believe they can act clueless so easily. and subconsciously, an informed mindset will see no need to discredit what they know is truth (and they know that a bodyguard is in play).
I mean, it being a fake dumbtell means he's acting like he's clueless, rather than actually being clueless.
Do you really believe this is a real dumbtell?
I'm going to ISO anak then, I think that may prove fruitful
How is that town behavior? Read through the list of reads he has, literally every read is a slightly alignment that might not be, or is just a straight Will Keep an Eye Out.
Like in all of that Osie doesn't SAY anything, but he put a lot of words down to make it look like he did. I'm getting huge overly helpful townie vibes here, trying to make it look like he is deeply analyzing and breaking the game down.
I pretty strongly believe Osie is scum, I caught him as scum in Two Takes It for being overly helpful townie as well (though that was right at the end of RVS, where he answered someone's question for someone else, then a few posts later answered the same question and said many more words before anyone commented on his first answer)
this feels genuine to me. Anak really doesn't like what osie is doing here, and I think that's towny.
@Shadow I'm confident that Tom could pocket me successfully, but I don't think that's any different than anyone else. I think Tom's good enough to pocket a vast majority of players at a fairly high rate.
What I do know is trying to figure out if he's genuine or pocketing at this stage is a fools errand, and something that will take time and actions in game to really pin down. So I'm not going to stress about it now, see maybe if it resolves itself somehow, and figure it out later with more information
sudden obsession with pocketing out of nowhere, this is especially important now that tom has flipped town
It's not that he's bad at math, it's that 11% is one out of nine. This means that Mikey thought there was one scum in the group and he applied that to the (incorrect) amount of others.
Why would he think there is one scum remaining? It's an open setup, everyone knows exactly how many scum there are, two. Mikey knows who one is, and did a 1/9 instead of a 1/8 for the other, accidentally.
A number typo could happen, but that number is so off from just a typo that I believe something else led to it
this post was quoting rumanshi, so rumanshi clearly knows there are 2 scum
doesn't have a lot to do with anak but just thought I'd bring it up
I have seen this a couple times, I think Cantrip said it too, but explain please what agenda driven means, and why being so makes someone scummy.
this is small, but it looks good. He's pushing osie to give some background behind their reads, presumably so that anak's own reads can be reinforced by osie's instead of them being incompatible if that makes sense
I was curious about the agenda driven comment because I wanted to completely understand what you meant by it. And knowing that, I will say this, why does that make someone scummy? Do town never post things other than words specifically designated for scum hunting?
What agenda do you think I am pushing? Why does pushing that agenda actually make me scum?
Shadow, do you think I am actually scum or are you just voting me to force him to explain his read of me? Either way I'm still sticking with my evaluate later read of him, it worked out in another game (Biceps mafia I think?)
I don't plan on lurking, but I'm never at the top of the post list, as evidenced by every game ever I have been in
well you're lurking now dude
up to this point anak has been acting quite towny and shadow already has a scum read on him. I don't agree with that
@Cantrip I have on more than one occasion as town made posts attempting to keep myself alive, or draw some sort of attention or nightkill instead of scumhunt. While scumhunting wasn't the main focus, it was present, but I feel like town can eschew that more often than you are considering. Also, my apologies you referenced having an agenda to Mikey instead of me, mixed it up.
I have Tom in an evaluate later category, not Mikey. Mikey I fully intend to have solved long before then. And I know you were being humorous, and you're correct that I wouldn't say I planned on lurking if I was scum, but I wouldn't do that if I was town either.
@Shadow Tom's read comes off as fairly genuine to me. He knows and understands how I think about the game better than literally anyone, for better or worse. I don't intend to think of town and scum as so different things, but it comes off that way, and to pick up on that and apply that to this situation reads as a genuine attempt to glean my alignment. And because its Tom, its totally in his wheelhouse to try and do this in the very first post, for the lols.
The big problem with this is that Tom knows how I think, and could apply that as scum to get me to buy in, and could sound genuine in doing so. So while I believe the read of me has is genuine, I don't necessarily believe it makes Tom town. This is a giant glass of wine though, and as a result makes me just want to leave really evaluating Tom until later when there is a full game of actions and such to assist.
Sorry @Mikey I missed your question earlier, nitpickyness is not inherently scummy. Mafia is a game where the devil is in the details, and a lot of people can post many words that all read fairly the same. When a majority of words are normal and not very alignment indicative, its the words and posts that are weird that call out to me. Sometimes weird like that is simply just innocently weird, but there are times when that's not the case.
In your case, I saw someone make a comment about the odds of someone being scum. This would be something easy to slip up on, and the fact that your "math" was so off caught my attention to the point of wondering if I could infer something else from it. Which I did, that subconsciously you were looking for 1 scum in 9, and that you were subconsciously looking for 1 scum because you yourself were the other.
That't not hugely alignment indicative, and I wouldn't really fight you on that, but at this point in the game its good enough for me to go with.
Reads of the game currently:
Town
Me
Lean Town
Cantrip: I feel like I have no idea how to read you, you post a lot of things, mainly they are level headed and well reasoned, and never get in your own way. Seems like I always think you're town regardless of what you wind up being. Like the start, but keeping one eye open.
DBS: Hasn't posted a ton, but what has been posted is fairly well articulated, and their view of the game is close to mine, which has to be townie right?
Shadow: Same old Shadow, asking people questions into their mindset and trying to figure out what people are saying to really solve the game. Wouldn't be surprised if Shadow winds up being scum, just because.
Neutrak
Tom: Maybe slightly town, but really reserving judgment for later. Posting your read of me to appease others is also good.
Rumanishi: Need to spend more time reading, having a hard time remembering anything of significance. This may be more my fault than Ruma's, so want to try and fix myself before claiming that they are just lurking.
Lean Scum
Vezok: Jumping around with their vote and trying to appear to be spicy in their play without really explaining anything until prompted by others.
Osie: Desire to appear very helpful and beneficial to the town, almost artificially so.
Mikey: Weirdness around looking for one scum and screwing up math in the process.
this is a big one so it's got some of both in it. On the one hand, he's missed a lot of action and this shows he went over it all again
this post also makes me think a tom kill makes sense from wolf anak pov but he's so paranoid about this pocketing crap
it's like halfway through the post (or 3/4 or whatever) he just suddenly lost motivation to make this a solid post and his reads list is a lot weaker than the rest of the post.
For the first time I can remember, this looks like shadow is rather rattled by Ruma. Whether or not you think Ruma is trolling, he certainly isn't scummy for doing that, and pushing that narrative is going to be hard to get people behind.
Still liking the Osie votes
I can't understand this out of context but I like it, because I don't remember anyone else pointing out the same thing
day 1 anak is solidly human and contributing
Hm thats really unfortunate, sorry Osie. Did some reading back through the EOD yesterday, and Tom's top suspects by far are Vezok and Cantrip, Vezok moreso. Tom calls me town for most of the game, Vezok scum for a lot of it, and Vezok comes into today voting me and calling me scum? Why on earth do I NK Tom there? He was my biggest ally in the thread, taking him out makes no sense. Osie was also calling Vezok scum and voting him, which I guess explains why Vezok comes into today with a large wall post, he knows that he is going to be the main suspect to start the day and wants to help divert attention from that.
Vote Vezok
Sleepy, tired, can actually post more tomorrow instead of spending time reading things.
first of all from my experience wolves are way more likely to comment on mislynches like this than humans are, so he gets wolf points for that. His argument is "why do I kill tom there, he was town reading me?" And vezok's argument is "why do I kill tom there, he was scum reading me?" Which I find is interesting in this dichotomy between anak and vezok
It's not his opinion I'm referring to, it's the lynching me to catch scum line. Why else are you lynching people? His opinion is something he is entitled to certainly.
@Mikey I already talked about what they said and what I interpreted from it, is there some part you are curious about?
@Shadow This is going to be exhibit A on why meta reads aren't worth a *****. Using that game as an example of me being town, when I got day vigged by town without any real objection. And even if I looked town in retrospect, I could point out town games of mine where that wasn't true.
Quite frankly thats such a bad argument I'm beginning to wonder if you are scum yourself trying to get one of the other vets mislynched to clear your path
and this his most recent post
the overall progression I'm getting from anak is he's getting more and more tired not willing to put in the effort required
instead of answering all important points he sees he is now only responding to the things calling him out as a wolf, to self pres probably. This change is worrisome and it's why I wanted to see more from him
I kinda like this though, you're not sure about Shadow and brought back notice to the townclearing.
good to know you understand it, at least.
considering I was in the middle of 2 choices, I just felt protecting from possible vig was more informative than saving a possible jailer. vig column will still net 2 dead bodies, so I'd rather have some solid info for next Day than WIFOM.
Cantrip's assessment of my claim also has me wondering.. iirc Shadow and him say he is good as scum, so I won't put anything past him.
Be grateful, always."
Rumanshi seems to be really looking into what the scumteam might or might not have.
Shadow wants to townblock asap.
Emcee is making up his own theories. theories that the informed mindset know, and wouldn't want to mess with when the real bodyguard appears.
had my worries since, even with my claim, there were still 4 to sift through. Emcee has done plenty to bring my PoE down, so thanks.
that leaves me with...
dead town: Osie/Tom
me: Dawn
good: Rumanshi/Shadow/Emcee
bad: Anak/Cantrip/Vezok
Be grateful, always."
@Dawn: It's a really bad idea to ask a person you think is scum if they are a PR as it might give them an out if they didn't think about it before.
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basically convince me why you felt you were under so much pressure yesterday
I want you to be town here because aside from these few things you've been moderately towny. I don't care if your reads were bad
possible difference in approach/playstyle.
Unvote
before any ninja hammering happens
Be grateful, always."
Well, people always think I'm somewhat scummy in almost every game I've played both as town and as scum. I believe people latched onto me as they thought I was scum for ok reasons. I was attacking both tom and osie who both flipped town so from their perspective I would come up worse.
I also didn't feel I was under much pressure. I'm used to being wagoned and haven't felt pressure in a long while.
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how can you behave like that and say you didn't feel under pressure
Anaklusmos: vezokpiraka, shadowlancerx (L-2)
Cantripmancer: (L-4)
dawningbluesky: (L-4)
Emcee_Mikey: (L-4)
Rumanshi: Emcee_Mikey (L-3)
shadowlancerx: (L-4)
vezokpiraka: Anaklusmos (L-3)
Not Voting:
Cantripmancer, Rumanshi, dawningbluesky
With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch.
Deadline is 13 April 2018.
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Staffhttps://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/search?search-thread-id=780342&by-author=Anaklusmos
He posted infrequently, but you’ll notice the quality difference. It was very clear that he was town in that game, he took some heat for sure, but he actually showed critical thinking, depth of reads, and analysis of the gamestate for himself. That isn’t present here.
Anak is scum.
It's not his opinion I'm referring to, it's the lynching me to catch scum line. Why else are you lynching people? His opinion is something he is entitled to certainly.
@Mikey I already talked about what they said and what I interpreted from it, is there some part you are curious about?
@Shadow This is going to be exhibit A on why meta reads aren't worth a *****. Using that game as an example of me being town, when I got day vigged by town without any real objection. And even if I looked town in retrospect, I could point out town games of mine where that wasn't true.
Quite frankly thats such a bad argument I'm beginning to wonder if you are scum yourself trying to get one of the other vets mislynched to clear your path
His opinion is that lynching you will get scum. You're not making sense.
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StaffI would be if Shadow was part of the scum team, though.
do yall ever have quicker games
anyway I'm not sure I've got much more to say
both scum were on osie's wagon yesterday and if dbs is bodyguard that leaves rumanshi/shadow/vezok/anak in some combination
day one based on reads I would have said rumanshi and shadow were the scummiest but they were bussing each other (or shadow was bussing rumanshi)
shadow's flip on an obviously fake dumbtell is soooo bad
shadow wolf flip clears anak imo
a wolf flip from rumanshi/anak/vezok doesn't clear anyone else in that group of four
town flip from any of those four doesn't do a lot either I think
if we don't hit a wolf today I think our chances of winning this game in lylo are pretty low.
rumanshi flipping wolf doesn't even necessarily incriminate anyone else afaik
vezok is high risk high reward, if he's not a wolf we get almost no info from his reads since he scum read dead people and he keeps flipping on everyone basically
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StaffFrankly it feels like he straight up doesn’t actually care who gets lynched, and he’s try to dress that up as unsure analysis.
Bah, I need to do a couple of Iso dives.
I want rumanshi to be lynched today
I don't want anak or vezok to be lynched because of gut but they're not making good cases for themselves atm. That's what I'm asking them to do
I've never seen anyone so single minded who is scum @Shadow. This is why emcee is town in my mind.
vote:Anak
I went through his Iso. Nothing is very helpful for town.
what do you think of Rumanshi's post that I townread? it looks like something from an uninformed mindset.
here is Rumanshi's scum meta. I'd admit I've never played against scum!Rumanshi before, and only observed a scum performance, but he still feels similar to the towngames I've seen from him.
Be grateful, always."
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Staff@dawning: I think Mikey could be a partner for Anak, he’s had very little to actually say about him.
Also, I still have that weird feeling in the back of my mind that you could be scum, but I’d rather not think of that. I’m hoping you get solved for us tonight.
Shadow is my best bet for a partner, but I'm not really sure.
Unless the scum team is something dumb like Cantrip, Mikey, I think this game is won, but it might end up in 3p LyLo.
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Vezok is town because of his behavior, Dawning is town because, as Vezok pointed out, no scum fakeclaims bodyguard with that explanation when there's plenty of easier explanations that will draw less suspicion.
I didn't say it made Anak town, just more likely to be town than I thought before. His recent posts have contributed practically nothing, so I'm again thinking he's lurking scum.
AFAIK, there's no way to ping players.
Ok, but dead town opinions always have to be taken with a grain of salt (and tempered by what's learned in the game subsequent to the town-player's death). Looking at two dead townies and saying "oh hey, they both suspected the same players, those players must be scum!!1!" is an extremely lazy and (imo) unreliable process. And when are you going to start scumhunting? Because /barning dead players is NOT scumhunting.
I don't understand what you're trying to communicate here. Elaborate, please?
You should definitely be questioning me, but you're not actually doing that; you're just casting shade. What about my assessment has you wondering?
Why is the presence of two town players on his wagon incriminating?
What in this post is productive, Anak? You clarify a little to Rumanshi, ok, but then you tell Mikey to do his own homework (acceptable, but not scumhunting), you defend yourself from Shadow's meta attack by saying "wow, when this game's over I'll be able to use this as an example that meta doesn't do jack" and "nope, doesn't count", and then you practically OMGUS Shadow. The argument that he's trying to get "one of the other vets mislynched" is laughable. You may be a vet, but you're not doing anything this game. I'd accept the argument that Shadow's using bad arguments to go after low-hanging fruit, but this approach rings very hollow given your lack of contribution so far.
Lol, I started here, so when I tried a 5-day game on another site I had to go awol for 24 hours and came back and was like what happened, I blinked.
I like my slower games because of my real life commitments.
Why so confident?
Why do you think this makes them less likely to be scum together?
I'm trying to reconcile where you say "vezok doesn't clear anyone else in that group of four" with your last line where you call him high risk high reward. If he doesn't clear anyone if he flips wolf, how is he high reward?
Show me where he doesn't care who gets lynched?
I'd like to chime in on this, but I'll let Mikey respond first. Someone remind me to come back to this if I forget.
No offense, but I'm struggling to see how you expect people to even sort of easily compare Rumanshi's meta in a structured-post game like Haiku to help with their reads here. Maybe it'd be different if I'd already read Haiku (which I want to do, but...), but just reading through his ISO there isn't really giving me much. Can you clarify what you see there that you don't see here?
Hmmm...
@Shadow: Your top three townreads, please?
Given the snailish pace of the thread recently, I'm tempted to hammer Anak. I think he's highly likely to be scum after his recent posts, which consist of fluff and self-defense, and he's made it pretty clear that he's not interested in providing content. But I don't want to end conversation prematurely, and I'd like some responses to what I asked above. If you have something to say (or if anyone strongly feels Anak isn't scum), go to, please.
I had this crazy thought that a Rumanashi shadow scum team is possible, but I fear the game would already be lost in this situation.
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@Mod-DoTA: When tomorrow is the deadline?
Isn't deadline the 13th of April?
Oh, hey, Rumanshi! I'm on for a bit. Engage me. Start by answering my question, then hit me with something scathing or insightful. Let's figure stuff out.
I'm not sure what you're really asking elaborated... I was predicting who could be scum with Anak. Based on voting patterns, you were a likely candidate. However, the interactions you had saying lynch Anak for nitpicking, seemed townleaning rather than a scum thing.
But where's the scathing or insightful response? Ask me something. How are you going to figure me out?
I don't have anything scathing or insightful. Everything i have, has been shared so far.
I'm not going to figure you out for now. I'm going to see if Anak has anything further as a defense, then see if they are scum or not. Figuring out the others comes after not before.
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StaffI have pretty high confidence in Ruma because that dumbtell looks like an actual thought he had.
I think you’re town, and you haven’t truly fooled me yet, so I’m pretty sure I’d catch you. Plus I don’t think you throw Anak under the bus quite like you pushed him in a two scum game.
After that it gets a little muddy, but I actually think Vezok is reasonably likely to be town. He’s one I’ll probably read overnight if I have time just to check interactions with Anak.
the alternative is that me or cantrip is scum and cantrip is the one who brought this up :thinking:
we can run in circles for days like this but without another flip we have nothing to go on
vezok feels better right now than he did at end of day 1
rumanshi ought to be scrutinized for an obviously fake dumbtell
Be grateful, always."
I just saw that as more stream of consciousness wordspew. But I did have questions about it. Which he's ignoring.
Oooookay, wanted to get that on record as I really don't like the out you're leaving with DBS when you say "Also, I still have that weird feeling in the back of my mind that you could be scum, but I’d rather not think of that. I’m hoping you get solved for us tonight." It sounds a lot like something scum would say to psudo-confirmed town that they don't plan to kill. In a closed setup, I could see this being said by a vig, or as a recommendation to the vig, but in this setup... Yeah, that comment felt all kinds of icky. I think that if you're scum, there's a fair chance that Anak or Vezok is your buddy.
You'd do better to actually read the questions (and maybe answer them). I'm asking why you're so confident in that statement. You're townreading me. I get it. But you keep making these really specific statements that sound like you know, and I'm trying to figure out where that's coming from.
I'd like to give Anak at least one more chance to post and contribute. I of all people know that real life sometimes presents challenges, so I'd rather give him one more chance. He didn't post last night, so tonight will be his 48 hour mark (he's pretty consistently managed at least one post every 48, just barely staying out of prod range).
I would like to hear your thoughts on the posts I townread. what about them looks fake? in detail, please
Be grateful, always."
Cantrip, it's simple process of elimination. Why are you so hung up over it? If I think you're a human (which I do) then logically I'd have to think both wolves were on osie's wagon (which I think they are). And yeah it's stream of consciousness, I was trying to figure out alignments based on potential flips and didn't really arrive at much
vezok is high risk/high reward because if he's town his flip doesn't really do a lot for us in terms of his reads, but if he's a wolf we hit a wolf
odds are probably low
This is pretty dumb but i've only ever seen humans mention occam's razor in any capacity
soooo
anak jumps on me for a math screwup
it becomes a pretty big deal to a few players, including rumanshi who is directly aware of the math
he knows there are 2 mafia at this point, if he doesn't then he's not even trying and making things up
so him asking to the thread "wait how many mafia are there" (paraphrased) is him trying to be town read instead of just reading the OP
I could have asked something like "do the wolves have a private chat" but instead I read the op where it says they have nighttalk only (iirc)
are you telling me doing so would have given me a blanket town read by several players? Seems sketchy.
I dunno if shadowlancer is a good player or anything but an immediate "oh haha wow he's town" reaction is most likely to be something they concocted during nighttalk to avoid bussing again
this is all very conspiracy-ish and displays quite a bit of confirmation bias which I am aware of
it's still a possibility that I'm considering
if the vigi was in play I don't think they'd have killed rumanshi, since the generally accepted vigi shot there is vezok
even if DBS had tried to block a vigi shot on vezok that would've been a terrible thing to do since vezok is still likely to get voted if he was voted for day 1
guarding rumanshi is just so out there that unless DBS thought me or shadowlancer was possibly the vigi I don't think it's something you just make up
suggesting those scenarios are possibly fabricated is wine (WIFOM). an informed and uninformed mindset think differently, and the informed mindset is more limited in performance due to their information.
it's the same as how I said you could be town because you suggested we're down to only vanilla, something that will be cc'd by the BODYGUARD in play and it would lock scum into a dichotomy if they tried to discredit it later - the real scum won't feel comfortable with that, would they?
Be grateful, always."
I don't think it's wifom to suggest the whole thing is fabricated
the dumbtell itself is fake, why not the response to it?
Shadow's post felt fine, mostly because I feel like scum!Shadow wouldn't do that to a buddy's post. Whether cooked up during N1 or by complete coincidence, if his scum-buddy Rumanshi makes an innocent town post in an attempt to buy town pants, Shadow is really unlikely to be the one to prop it up. Especially only 1.5 hours after Rumanshi made the post. Scum!Shadow would be a lot more likely, imo, to wait and see if a townie would prop that up.
Huh. I think I just figured out that Shadow and Rumanshi aren't scumbuddies. Sweet.
On the flip side, might scum!Shadow prop up town!Rumanshi's post? That's a little more believable, and maybe accounts for the feel that Mikey's noting. It still feels like scum!Shadow would be less anxious to townclear Rumanshi on something like that, but it's possible.
As for the post of Mikey's you quoted, if Mikey was a little less transparent, I could totally see it being a crafted post, with a dual purpose to buy townpants and also to "say what a good townie should say". That is, by stating something scum!Mikey knows is false, he comes off looking uninformed, and the second part of that statement is "no, of course the protective town PR shouldn't claim". But given the rest of his behavior, I agree with your townread on that post. But it's "MoreTown Icing" to me rather than a pivotal "he's so obvtown" singular post.
I'm hung up because you're making me a bit paranoid. I'm pretty sure you're town, but you're towning me based on me towning you (well, how I'm towning you), and while most of your posts are sort of tentative in certainty, every once in a while you say something like it's fact when you shouldn't be able to tell if it's fact or not. So. Yeah. Paranoid.
I guess I don't see the "high reward" (as opposed to any other potential suspect).
Um...I don't see anything of the sort in the OP...?
Shadow is a very good scum player. So good I don't think he makes that post in response to a buddy's post.
So...here's an example. Many of your posts are like this. You stream of consciousness the problem and never really state anything conclusive. You say "Cantrip's analysis", but that was DBS's analysis, which I was agreeing with. And it partially sounds like you're saying you DON'T believe DBS's claim...but then the last line sounds like you DO believe it?
In the Mafia subforum where all the game links are listed, click on the number in the "Replies" column on the right, then click on the number of posts for the player you want to ISO.
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Staff@Mikey: What reason could Ruma have for taking a dumbtell as town?
@Cantrip: I got burned in OTG2 by an uncounterable fake claim; and on top of that, dawning has played markedly different this game than the ones I’ve been in with her previously.
Be grateful, always."
yup it pays to read the OP
I could see a (not amazing) town player faking a dumbtell hoping to pass it off as real, because if they do they've got a free town pass
if this isn't a fake dumbtell rumanshi's been making things up this entire game more or less and I dunno if you know we should Lynch All Liars
so it's more likely to be a fake dumbtell and I don't know if rumanshi does that as town, wolf, both, or what, but given I've been wolf reading him up to this point it should be more evidence he's a wolf to me
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StaffDo you really believe this is a real dumbtell?
I'm going to ISO anak then, I think that may prove fruitful
this feels genuine to me. Anak really doesn't like what osie is doing here, and I think that's towny.
sudden obsession with pocketing out of nowhere, this is especially important now that tom has flipped town
this post was quoting rumanshi, so rumanshi clearly knows there are 2 scum
doesn't have a lot to do with anak but just thought I'd bring it up
this is small, but it looks good. He's pushing osie to give some background behind their reads, presumably so that anak's own reads can be reinforced by osie's instead of them being incompatible if that makes sense
well you're lurking now dude
up to this point anak has been acting quite towny and shadow already has a scum read on him. I don't agree with that
this is a big one so it's got some of both in it. On the one hand, he's missed a lot of action and this shows he went over it all again
this post also makes me think a tom kill makes sense from wolf anak pov but he's so paranoid about this pocketing crap
it's like halfway through the post (or 3/4 or whatever) he just suddenly lost motivation to make this a solid post and his reads list is a lot weaker than the rest of the post.
I can't understand this out of context but I like it, because I don't remember anyone else pointing out the same thing
day 1 anak is solidly human and contributing
first of all from my experience wolves are way more likely to comment on mislynches like this than humans are, so he gets wolf points for that. His argument is "why do I kill tom there, he was town reading me?" And vezok's argument is "why do I kill tom there, he was scum reading me?" Which I find is interesting in this dichotomy between anak and vezok
and this his most recent post
the overall progression I'm getting from anak is he's getting more and more tired not willing to put in the effort required
instead of answering all important points he sees he is now only responding to the things calling him out as a wolf, to self pres probably. This change is worrisome and it's why I wanted to see more from him
you only need to read the last paragraph really