@tom: do you believe pointing at Azrael for not scumhunting and only defending while Az was looking for scum on his own wagon is ok, especially with nobue doing it herself now?
it is strange to be sure, but not necessarily sinister. When you are free as a bird you need not be reasonable or avoid hypocrisy.
And the Kazin vote?
terrible
And could definitely come from the shadows.
I'm starting to really like tomsloger, mostly because I have the same view of Nobue. Seems like textbook panicked newbie and nothing to suggest she might be scum.
@tom: Let's work together here. What would it take to change your read on me?
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Didn’t get the reaction from Dawning I was hoping for, but yeh, I’m not convinced dawning is scum.
I thought that maybe they reasoned out that with the number of scum they have, 1 anti-town neutral would be the max, but it seems it was just awkward wording and nothing more.
And I do agree with the Rodemy observations.
unvote
On to Nobue. She’s the whole reason I refrained from posting for a while. It’s hard to answer to an aggressive post without being aggressive myself.
I’ll cut the post into pieces to answer it.
I don't understand how you could say I don't have an opinion. I made it pretty clear I didn't want to lynch.
I’m talking about #31. Apart from the jester thing, that’s the first time you talk about him. There’s really no opinion at all in that post. Your opinion only formed after others posted theirs. Felt to me like you were testing the waters to see whether or not you should pursue him.
Also why would I vote Azreal for Kamakizes post? Do you even understand what was going on there or are you as clueless as they are?
Because the accusation you made is that Kami is Azrael’s buddy. If you want to lynch someone for being a buddy, the only town!way to approach that is to lynch the other first and only if they flip scum, you go for the “buddy”.
Don't refer to me as he. Thanks!
Sorry, didn’t know.
Didn't you lead a wagon that got me lynched within 8 posts before.
Ongoing game! Don’t talk about that pls.
Why do you dislike me claiming Azreal isn't scum hunting. When he isn't. He has been defending himself and not spending much time looking for wolves.
He’s analyzing the reasoning of the people talking about him and looking for alignment in that. It’s one of the most effective ways of hunting.
Did you actually read what Az said, because calling all that defense is a misrepresentation.
Can you show where you did any scumhunting? All I’ve seen you do is talk about Azrael, defend yourself against me / Terry / Kazin / Grape and throw out a townread or two.
All in all I've decided I don't understand how you can post like this. Your reasoning for Shadow being ok makes no sense when you call others scum for going for Azreal immediately. Its like you woke up made up a bunch of *****. Forced it into reads and said this seems good. I would call you scum for this EXCEPT I've seen you do this as town already.
I’m not gonna waste words answering this part, but again, ongoing game.
@Rodemy: I don’t get the vote-unvote progression in that post of yours. What does Nobue’s post tell you that makes you unvote Shadow?
Oh Rhand responded to that, but refuses to respond to my points. I don't understand. Did Rhand really just say "Ongoing game to dismiss", then pointed out later oh not on going game, but my response stands!
Maybe it was just me but I didn't take the Azreal analyzing his wagon seriously. The only other thing to analyze right now is my own wagon.
I guess Azreal is a neutral who isn't too interested in the game, so when he said scum hunting I thought something more active. As long as Azreal is poking in with some insight should be good enough.
Oh Rhand responded to that, but refuses to respond to my points. I don't understand. Did Rhand really just say "Ongoing game to dismiss", then pointed out later oh not on going game, but my response stands!
Then what is there to respond to in those points? Please Rephrase?
Oh Rhand responded to that, but refuses to respond to my points. I don't understand. Did Rhand really just say "Ongoing game to dismiss", then pointed out later oh not on going game, but my response stands!
Then what is there to respond to in those points? Please Rephrase?
You dismissed the claims made by saying ongoing game.
@Rhand: We've even played together. I haven't played in a while though so I don't have up to date meta.
I was about to snap-vote you for that buddying attempt, but I want to know if it is in your town meta to do that.
I only remember Final Fantasy 2 with you, and you were scum there + that game was too weird mechanically to even consider it.
Currently read up and up to date, which has left me with a couple questions for each of you.
@Tom: So... if I'm the figurehead, what are you: Surf or ship? Yep... direct question cause I don't expect a direct answer, but sure, why not?
@Kami: Not sure if you're reading into the same things that have my suspicions raised into Nobue or not, but I am curious if this is also a shift in my switch to Nobue and you jumping on the claims you've made of my Town status... Someone might want to probe that a bit more. It wouldn't be the first time I've watched you latch onto someone aligned one way as a smokescreen for your own actions. How about it? Got a better breakdown of your Nobue vote? I'm curious as to what your words/rational are on that specifically.
@Nobue: I believe there's always the possibility I'm wrong. It's possible I'm focused in the wrong area. The wagon building in your direction is spearheaded mostly by your own answers to things, and the read I have on people is why my focus is there. Granted, tone and inflection are often much harder to construe in text than in person, but I believe it was pinged best when you were referred to as 'panicking' and 'trying to stay alive.' Perhaps you'd want to give an actual scum/town read? I suppose if at very least, I am curious if you are going to swing vote off of someone everyone's so certain is town aligned... Cause keeping the vote on me when so many people are stating that I'm 'town-confirmed' certainly isn't doing you any favors about looking non-scum.
@Shadow: Your reads have all felt insightful to me, though the buddying seems to have sparked a near immediate vote from you. Got some details for us, bud?
@Rhand: I appreciate you focusing on this game. I'm curious if there's other reads you see, possibly on some others. Things change and I'm curious to see another of your full breakdowns on who is what or where you're leaning. If nothing else, the last one certainly kicked off some good questioning.
@Vezok: Tom is an enigma to me in the way of town/scum sway... but I've formed my own opinion on Nancy, though for a post or two I'd prefer not to divulge it. What in Nancy's posts to you says "town" so much that you're putting her at your top two?
@Rodemy: With at least a couple votes in against you, I'm surprised you haven't put up a vote of your own? Maybe I over-looked it, but so far I see a lot of speculation and lots of talk, but not so much in the way of action. You've got a series of top-reads now right? How about commit to one?
@dawningbluesky: I really appreciate your catch on #167. It does raise a little more question as there's another possible claim of Neutral and Tom has been pretty quick to fall in with the claims upon others... in his own way. Why do you think he'd avoid making a comment about a second neutral claim?
@Archmage: Haven't seen you post in a bit.. but if I recall, you did say you were going to be a bit busy... New reads on the people you've looked into and what they've done since?
@Azrael: While I still am not a huge fan of a solo win victory, I could be just daft... Did it ever get covered if there were other ways for you to obtain souls? From one breakdown I saw, it sounded like you could possibly claim souls from those Lynched or Night-killed as well as Hammer. If I'm reading that breakdown correctly... that quickly accelerates your Soul generation.
@Terry: Eyes are starting to hate me with all of the quoted texts... Did you ever get an answer on the disappearance of Nancy in relation to the "Grape faux?"
@Grapefruit: You say you haven't done a lot for the game so far in your conversation to Shadow. So... I'm curious if things have changed? Do you have a list of town/scum reads?
@Nancy: Haven't seen a post from you since page 2 the thread. Starting to wonder if you're still with us, or just watching? There's a lot of unanswered questions that have been lobbed your way. I know RL is a thing, but care to toss us some answers so we can alleviate some suspicion levied your direction?
I do not have any other way to gain souls. I mentioned that I could understand if people were afraid I might, but I don't. Not sure if I need to just grab zero souls so no one is afraid, or play to survive the nightkill at this point.
@DBS why does believing Az's claim = not wanting to lynch him? It seems to me the people most generally skeptical of his claim have been the ones least interested in lynching him. I think the proposal if making him act town aligned (no hammers) is a good one but not everyone (Vexok, Kazin, and Rod to name three) agrees. Basically I don't agree with your premise that wanting to lynch him and believing his claim is a scum tell. If anything I'd assume town would want to keep him alive.
believing Azrael's claim is the same as believing his resolve to surrender. if Azrael is scum fakeclaiming neutral, that would be to prolong his survival (opposite of surrendering). those who thought Azrael was best lynched were the ones who thought there were discrepancies/lies at some point, and that he was trying to prolong his survival. Rodemy is different, he said he believed that claim.
@Dawning: Talk to me about your play in Zero Escape vs how you’re approaching/going to approach this game? Did you take anything away from that game as to how to improve or change? Do you plan to play this game pretty similarly?
I learned that this site works differently from my homesite, mainly influenced by the ISO function. since we don't have ISO functions on the other site, we just look for transparency and free flow of information to filter out later in the game - activity, repetitions, and live revisits of old questions were common. after Zero Escape, I figured that I should play with the ISO function in mind: focus on concise and meaningful observations more than drawn-out/repetitive questions for consistency.
as for my play in Zero Escape versus this game, I guess it's all in the playerbase. I had a townread who was easy to read by meta, but I don't have any concrete foundations to build on in this game.
@dawningbluesky: I really appreciate your catch on #167. It does raise a little more question as there's another possible claim of Neutral and Tom has been pretty quick to fall in with the claims upon others... in his own way. Why do you think he'd avoid making a comment about a second neutral claim?
if that is what he is doing, that means he's avoiding having to explain his thoughts. he seems to actively avoid taking stances. I'm willing to overlook it as not-alignment-indicative for now, but if this continues it is concerning.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
My phone is playing up and I've not been able to connect much. A few scattershot thoughts.
I don't know Nobues play but the things (apart from the reaction to Azs claim) that she's being pushed for feel very meta clash oriented. Defensiveness can be a tell, but it can also be standard operating procedure. Haven't read closely enough to tell which this is.
To whoever asked (maybe Kazin?) I don't have a full reads list but currently like Kazin and Kami. I like tom, rhand, and shadow with hedges that they have all fooled me. And I remember liking someone else but I can't check my notes or I'll lose what I'm typing.
On scum side I haven't read Nobues answer about their progression in Az yet but they were my main lead. Had some lingering suspicions about Vezik, Nancy, and Rod but don't remember from what.
@DBS completely disagree with your assessment regarding Az. I've read the game in pretty much opposite to you there. And I'm unsure what that means. Give me examples of people believing his exact claim and not viewing him as a threat. I think you are the only one. Again as an example Kazin seems to accept that Az a neutral survivor with an alternate win con (with possible quibbles about the exact method claimed) but still wanted to lynch Az. Very similarly to Rod.
As for him surrendering as you put it I haven't seen evidence of that yet and that's why we need to hold him to the Kami Standard of behavior.
@Shadow yes you did work to get Kazin to clear them self but that doesn't make you clear. After silence I'm pretty much never putting anything past you. Ever.
@DBS completely disagree with your assessment regarding Az. I've read the game in pretty much opposite to you there. And I'm unsure what that means. Give me examples of people believing his exact claim and not viewing him as a threat. I think you are the only one. Again as an example Kazin seems to accept that Az a neutral survivor with an alternate win con (with possible quibbles about the exact method claimed) but still wanted to lynch Az. Very similarly to Rod.
As for him surrendering as you put it I haven't seen evidence of that yet and that's why we need to hold him to the Kami Standard of behavior.
the difference between Rodemy and the others is that he "fully believed" the claim, and had actual scumleans (better options) in the same post. for him to finally come to terms with Azrael's claim, have scumlean options, yet advocate lynching the neutral, just shows lack of a town mindset. it's normal to prefer lynching the clearer option first, but Azrael is not scum - that is the difference.
and regardless of whose standard we hold Azrael to, he's still outnumbered. the surrender is obvious.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
@Kazin: I do, but not yet. I’m curious to get more from Vezok first.
Also point of interest, do you understand why you are basically towncleared to so many people?
@Grapefruit: Oh don’t clear me for sure, I’m more interested in this line of talk for Tom anyway; him not town reading me comes more often from him as scum, regardless of my alignment, but it could also be a case of him just growing more cautious.
@Dawning: thanks, follow up, would you describe your scum game as more, less, or usually equally verbose to your town game?
@Grapefruit: Oh don’t clear me for sure, I’m more interested in this line of talk for Tom anyway; him not town reading me comes more often from him as scum, regardless of my alignment, but it could also be a case of him just growing more cautious.
I'll get to everything else in a second, but I had to show just how ridiculous this sounds. I'm really starting to think you are scum.
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Dig into that read a bit more, what do you see from Tom that’s townie and not just observational.
Also I want to hear about your Nancy read.
Mostly his progression of reads, Rhand especially. I don't have a post that I can point you to and say "this is a town", but the way tom has constructed his reads feels very organic. Scum tend to from reads from top to bottom while town do it the other way. Tom is firmly in the second category.
As for Nancy, she has only 2 posts, but I really like how both are constructed. The first one is an eloquent attack on grapefruit.
Quote from from = "Nancy Drew" »
Quote from from = "grapefruit" »
@Nobue I believe Jesters are considered bastard here. You seem to be implying that you are one (or maybe that Az is one, I"m not really sure what you're getting at), but bringing it up is a weird look.
How is he "implying" that he is "one? Why is that a "weird look"? Confused
As the wincon of jesters is always to suicide; this seems to be a perfectly reasonable question from Nobue. It seems pretty clear to me that they were wondering if Az might be attempting to further their wincon by trying to get hammered.
I also like this response as I thought the same thing. Her second post is also something I agree with completely.
Hence my comment that I like Nancy Drew after her post. She seems to think really close to what I'm thinking.
@Rhand: We've even played together. I haven't played in a while though so I don't have up to date meta.
I was about to snap-vote you for that buddying attempt, but I want to know if it is in your town meta to do that.
I only remember Final Fantasy 2 with you, and you were scum there + that game was too weird mechanically to even consider it.
I thought we played more games together, but it doesn't seem to be the case.
This is my most recent town game, but I replaced around 40 pages as some things came up. This game is also for tom where I show my inherent bias against survivors. I was a vig that game.
Having journeyed into the past, I see vezok voting to kill a sheep and smiting another odd specimen at night to reasonably good effect. It shows an instinctual distrust to a win condition not his own.
There is something slightly different happening in the present. But it requires more light of day.
@Grapefruit: Oh don’t clear me for sure, I’m more interested in this line of talk for Tom anyway; him not town reading me comes more often from him as scum, regardless of my alignment, but it could also be a case of him just growing more cautious.
I'll get to everything else in a second, but I had to show just how ridiculous this sounds. I'm really starting to think you are scum.
What’s ridiculous about this? I have a history with both Grapefruit and Tom, both of whom I’ve pocketed to devastating effect. So I expect a certain amount of caution from them, but specifically I’ve seen a pattern with Tom where as town he’s more open about townreading me anyway, knowing that he must be careful, and as scum he holds that back a little more. It’s not a major tell, and it’s definitely a very subjective thing; one which I will not base an entire read off of.
Regarding Nancy drew: I am highly suspicious of her, and I think the things you’re pointing to as town posts are incredibly rigid and not really at all organically townie.
The most damning evidence against vezok has largely disappeared with a peek into the past, but there remains little reason to trust
The sleek Shadowy shape is resolving into more shark than dolphin. I do not believe he honestly thinks there's a correlation between my alignment and how I view him, at least not on that basic a level. He is leveraging that in an attempt to force my hand. His gills are showing.
I do not yet know what dawning is. Perhaps a wayward manatee, or a gust of wind? Regardless, I wasn't honestly evaluating her in ZE but she feels broadly the same here. If there's an area of difference I haven't found it yet.
@Tom: pretty sure I mentioned this same thing in low fantasy mafia, when you neglect interaction/a read on me I get suspicious. It’s not a high level suspicion; I actually kind of think you’re townier than not currently, but I legit pay attention to how you handle me.
Regarding Vezok, I do agree that his history does align with the present regarding his treatment of Az’s claim, but I think the worst thing he did was that waaay overhanded buddy attempt towards you, are you fine with that? Do you think his reasoning for it makes sense?
Should be back on computer tonight and no longer need to do only phone posting.
@DBS I took Rod's statement to mean I'd rather lynch the person is 100% certain to be a 30-50% enemy rather than the person who is 10-30% to be 100% an enemy. I've been doing more thinking about Az's role and how it can be a threat since I such an opposite reaction to most of the game. And the desire to deal with him early is a sentiment I understand better now. If we fall behind and are edging towards Lylo him being alive becomes a huge threat. As long as we're ahead we can hold him accountable but later in the game the threat of lynching him is much hollower when we lack lynches to spare. Still think he's not the correct lynch today but I'm more sympathetic to people wanting to lynch him.
That said I want you to answer some questions of why Rod vs Vezok or Kazin. What makes him different? Vezok and Kazin both basically said: "yes he's a neutral, but I'm not going to look for scum because this needs an answer." Why is that not scummy but Rodemy's "Here are my scum leans, but let's lynch the crap out of Az anyway" is?
@Az's burner and Archmage Eternal why Rodemy? I don't see anything out of him one way or another.
Also @Az's burner are you able to steal your own soul? As in self target? And does your own soul count as 1 towards your count?
I like how nobody who is voting me is actually trying tk converse with me and figure out my motives.
Hey that's exactly what I'd noticed. Though I too chose not to interact with you.
I think Vote: DawningBlueSky feels right. Nobue has been jumpy, but now that I get it/it's been explained the reason for her change of tune on Az the rest of it is meh. I don't see bad intent there, just nervousness.
@Tom: pretty sure I mentioned this same thing in low fantasy mafia, when you neglect interaction/a read on me I get suspicious. It’s not a high level suspicion; I actually kind of think you’re townier than not currently, but I legit pay attention to how you handle me.
Regarding Vezok, I do agree that his history does align with the present regarding his treatment of Az’s claim, but I think the worst thing he did was that waaay overhanded buddy attempt towards you, are you fine with that? Do you think his reasoning for it makes sense?
Sounds like swimming in the ocean worrying about how much salt you might consume.
Vezoks attempt to put me in his treasure sack was in the open, fully lit, with everyone looking. So much so that it's likely meaningless.
Not really. Why do you ask? You're null too me, maybe a smidgen to the town side. I like the questions you're asking, but they don't give me too much insight into your alignment.
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I like how nobody who is voting me is actually trying tk converse with me and figure out my motives.
Hey that's exactly what I'd noticed. Though I too chose not to interact with you.
I think Vote: DawningBlueSky feels right. Nobue has been jumpy, but now that I get it/it's been explained the reason for her change of tune on Az the rest of it is meh. I don't see bad intent there, just nervousness.
Except.. you are one of those people.
Talking about what i meant instead or, idk, asking.
This creates a narrative about me that you can use to convince other people i'm scum.
Also, why are you interpriting what i said differently than how i said it?
vote grapefruit
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Thank you for choosing
Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@DBS I took Rod's statement to mean I'd rather lynch the person is 100% certain to be a 30-50% enemy rather than the person who is 10-30% to be 100% an enemy. I've been doing more thinking about Az's role and how it can be a threat since I such an opposite reaction to most of the game. And the desire to deal with him early is a sentiment I understand better now. If we fall behind and are edging towards Lylo him being alive becomes a huge threat. As long as we're ahead we can hold him accountable but later in the game the threat of lynching him is much hollower when we lack lynches to spare. Still think he's not the correct lynch today but I'm more sympathetic to people wanting to lynch him.
there is no point in voting for someone you're 100% sure of if it is still early in the Day, especially if there is nothing to gain from added 'pressure'. voting a claimed neutral is the most redundant way of using your vote/weapon, since it will not bring out anything other than disinterest. as voiced by many others, and even myself (#88), it is better to keep Azrael alive unless we have no better option - he acts as a buffer against CFDs. the sympathy you feel is projected, and strongly misinterpreted.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
That said I want you to answer some questions of why Rod vs Vezok or Kazin. What makes him different? Vezok and Kazin both basically said: "yes he's a neutral, but I'm not going to look for scum because this needs an answer." Why is that not scummy but Rodemy's "Here are my scum leans, but let's lynch the crap out of Az anyway" is?
the difference is focus. compared to the others, Rodemy obviously has his sights on the bigger picture, in that he has scumleans and is following the conversation regarding Azrael's claim. as someone looking at the bigger picture, he should be voting in the same frame of mind, which is a scumlean over a neutral. to have rather focused on a neutral shows that his intentions are questionable. the others failed to see the bigger picture, so they're in a better position than Rodemy.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
And could definitely come from the shadows.
@tom: Let's work together here. What would it take to change your read on me?
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Not Final Fantasy please, that wasn't really mafia
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/782236-off-the-grid-iii-game-over-mafia-victory
Is that an ongoing game? Really?
I guess Azreal is a neutral who isn't too interested in the game, so when he said scum hunting I thought something more active. As long as Azreal is poking in with some insight should be good enough.
I'm wrong on this then.
Then what is there to respond to in those points? Please Rephrase?
You dismissed the claims made by saying ongoing game.
You never addressed the claims.
And no, I won't react to that second thing.
Vote Vezok
What specifically makes Tom someone you want to be town reading you?
I think he is town and feel like we think similarly so I can work together.
Him and Nancy are my top townreads right now so I'd kinda like to hear from both.
@Rhand: We've even played together. I haven't played in a while though so I don't have up to date meta.
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Also I want to hear about your Nancy read.
I was about to snap-vote you for that buddying attempt, but I want to know if it is in your town meta to do that.
I only remember Final Fantasy 2 with you, and you were scum there + that game was too weird mechanically to even consider it.
@Tom: So... if I'm the figurehead, what are you: Surf or ship? Yep... direct question cause I don't expect a direct answer, but sure, why not?
@Kami: Not sure if you're reading into the same things that have my suspicions raised into Nobue or not, but I am curious if this is also a shift in my switch to Nobue and you jumping on the claims you've made of my Town status... Someone might want to probe that a bit more. It wouldn't be the first time I've watched you latch onto someone aligned one way as a smokescreen for your own actions. How about it? Got a better breakdown of your Nobue vote? I'm curious as to what your words/rational are on that specifically.
@Nobue: I believe there's always the possibility I'm wrong. It's possible I'm focused in the wrong area. The wagon building in your direction is spearheaded mostly by your own answers to things, and the read I have on people is why my focus is there. Granted, tone and inflection are often much harder to construe in text than in person, but I believe it was pinged best when you were referred to as 'panicking' and 'trying to stay alive.' Perhaps you'd want to give an actual scum/town read? I suppose if at very least, I am curious if you are going to swing vote off of someone everyone's so certain is town aligned... Cause keeping the vote on me when so many people are stating that I'm 'town-confirmed' certainly isn't doing you any favors about looking non-scum.
@Shadow: Your reads have all felt insightful to me, though the buddying seems to have sparked a near immediate vote from you. Got some details for us, bud?
@Rhand: I appreciate you focusing on this game. I'm curious if there's other reads you see, possibly on some others. Things change and I'm curious to see another of your full breakdowns on who is what or where you're leaning. If nothing else, the last one certainly kicked off some good questioning.
@Vezok: Tom is an enigma to me in the way of town/scum sway... but I've formed my own opinion on Nancy, though for a post or two I'd prefer not to divulge it. What in Nancy's posts to you says "town" so much that you're putting her at your top two?
@Rodemy: With at least a couple votes in against you, I'm surprised you haven't put up a vote of your own? Maybe I over-looked it, but so far I see a lot of speculation and lots of talk, but not so much in the way of action. You've got a series of top-reads now right? How about commit to one?
@dawningbluesky: I really appreciate your catch on #167. It does raise a little more question as there's another possible claim of Neutral and Tom has been pretty quick to fall in with the claims upon others... in his own way. Why do you think he'd avoid making a comment about a second neutral claim?
@Archmage: Haven't seen you post in a bit.. but if I recall, you did say you were going to be a bit busy... New reads on the people you've looked into and what they've done since?
@Azrael: While I still am not a huge fan of a solo win victory, I could be just daft... Did it ever get covered if there were other ways for you to obtain souls? From one breakdown I saw, it sounded like you could possibly claim souls from those Lynched or Night-killed as well as Hammer. If I'm reading that breakdown correctly... that quickly accelerates your Soul generation.
@Terry: Eyes are starting to hate me with all of the quoted texts... Did you ever get an answer on the disappearance of Nancy in relation to the "Grape faux?"
@Grapefruit: You say you haven't done a lot for the game so far in your conversation to Shadow. So... I'm curious if things have changed? Do you have a list of town/scum reads?
@Nancy: Haven't seen a post from you since page 2 the thread. Starting to wonder if you're still with us, or just watching? There's a lot of unanswered questions that have been lobbed your way. I know RL is a thing, but care to toss us some answers so we can alleviate some suspicion levied your direction?
A lot of new faces in this game, i need to be on point.
I am the narrator.
Duh
I learned that this site works differently from my homesite, mainly influenced by the ISO function. since we don't have ISO functions on the other site, we just look for transparency and free flow of information to filter out later in the game - activity, repetitions, and live revisits of old questions were common. after Zero Escape, I figured that I should play with the ISO function in mind: focus on concise and meaningful observations more than drawn-out/repetitive questions for consistency.
as for my play in Zero Escape versus this game, I guess it's all in the playerbase. I had a townread who was easy to read by meta, but I don't have any concrete foundations to build on in this game.
if that is what he is doing, that means he's avoiding having to explain his thoughts. he seems to actively avoid taking stances. I'm willing to overlook it as not-alignment-indicative for now, but if this continues it is concerning.
Be grateful, always."
I don't know Nobues play but the things (apart from the reaction to Azs claim) that she's being pushed for feel very meta clash oriented. Defensiveness can be a tell, but it can also be standard operating procedure. Haven't read closely enough to tell which this is.
To whoever asked (maybe Kazin?) I don't have a full reads list but currently like Kazin and Kami. I like tom, rhand, and shadow with hedges that they have all fooled me. And I remember liking someone else but I can't check my notes or I'll lose what I'm typing.
On scum side I haven't read Nobues answer about their progression in Az yet but they were my main lead. Had some lingering suspicions about Vezik, Nancy, and Rod but don't remember from what.
@DBS completely disagree with your assessment regarding Az. I've read the game in pretty much opposite to you there. And I'm unsure what that means. Give me examples of people believing his exact claim and not viewing him as a threat. I think you are the only one. Again as an example Kazin seems to accept that Az a neutral survivor with an alternate win con (with possible quibbles about the exact method claimed) but still wanted to lynch Az. Very similarly to Rod.
As for him surrendering as you put it I haven't seen evidence of that yet and that's why we need to hold him to the Kami Standard of behavior.
@Shadow yes you did work to get Kazin to clear them self but that doesn't make you clear. After silence I'm pretty much never putting anything past you. Ever.
and regardless of whose standard we hold Azrael to, he's still outnumbered. the surrender is obvious.
Be grateful, always."
Also point of interest, do you understand why you are basically towncleared to so many people?
@Grapefruit: Oh don’t clear me for sure, I’m more interested in this line of talk for Tom anyway; him not town reading me comes more often from him as scum, regardless of my alignment, but it could also be a case of him just growing more cautious.
@Dawning: thanks, follow up, would you describe your scum game as more, less, or usually equally verbose to your town game?
I'll get to everything else in a second, but I had to show just how ridiculous this sounds. I'm really starting to think you are scum.
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Mostly his progression of reads, Rhand especially. I don't have a post that I can point you to and say "this is a town", but the way tom has constructed his reads feels very organic. Scum tend to from reads from top to bottom while town do it the other way. Tom is firmly in the second category.
As for Nancy, she has only 2 posts, but I really like how both are constructed. The first one is an eloquent attack on grapefruit.
I also like this response as I thought the same thing. Her second post is also something I agree with completely.
Hence my comment that I like Nancy Drew after her post. She seems to think really close to what I'm thinking.
I thought we played more games together, but it doesn't seem to be the case.
This is my most recent town game, but I replaced around 40 pages as some things came up. This game is also for tom where I show my inherent bias against survivors. I was a vig that game.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=63530
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There is something slightly different happening in the present. But it requires more light of day.
Regarding Nancy drew: I am highly suspicious of her, and I think the things you’re pointing to as town posts are incredibly rigid and not really at all organically townie.
@Azrael, kindly place your vote on Rodemy OR put it on Vez 'cause I'm willing to lynch him too.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
The sleek Shadowy shape is resolving into more shark than dolphin. I do not believe he honestly thinks there's a correlation between my alignment and how I view him, at least not on that basic a level. He is leveraging that in an attempt to force my hand. His gills are showing.
I do not yet know what dawning is. Perhaps a wayward manatee, or a gust of wind? Regardless, I wasn't honestly evaluating her in ZE but she feels broadly the same here. If there's an area of difference I haven't found it yet.
The rum is strong in me veins.
The sea air be in me lungs
Let us..
SAIL THIS SHIP TOWARDS THAT SEAGULL. IT POOPED ON ME AND I WANT IT TO.. *BARFS OVER THE SIDE*
DIIEEEEEEEEE
Current intention would be to vote Rodemy, but I'll wait for my main to come back online before I try that.
Regarding Vezok, I do agree that his history does align with the present regarding his treatment of Az’s claim, but I think the worst thing he did was that waaay overhanded buddy attempt towards you, are you fine with that? Do you think his reasoning for it makes sense?
@DBS I took Rod's statement to mean I'd rather lynch the person is 100% certain to be a 30-50% enemy rather than the person who is 10-30% to be 100% an enemy. I've been doing more thinking about Az's role and how it can be a threat since I such an opposite reaction to most of the game. And the desire to deal with him early is a sentiment I understand better now. If we fall behind and are edging towards Lylo him being alive becomes a huge threat. As long as we're ahead we can hold him accountable but later in the game the threat of lynching him is much hollower when we lack lynches to spare. Still think he's not the correct lynch today but I'm more sympathetic to people wanting to lynch him.
That said I want you to answer some questions of why Rod vs Vezok or Kazin. What makes him different? Vezok and Kazin both basically said: "yes he's a neutral, but I'm not going to look for scum because this needs an answer." Why is that not scummy but Rodemy's "Here are my scum leans, but let's lynch the crap out of Az anyway" is?
@Az's burner and Archmage Eternal why Rodemy? I don't see anything out of him one way or another.
Also @Az's burner are you able to steal your own soul? As in self target? And does your own soul count as 1 towards your count?
@Vezok are you scum reading me?
Hey that's exactly what I'd noticed. Though I too chose not to interact with you.
I think Vote: DawningBlueSky feels right. Nobue has been jumpy, but now that I get it/it's been explained the reason for her change of tune on Az the rest of it is meh. I don't see bad intent there, just nervousness.
Vezoks attempt to put me in his treasure sack was in the open, fully lit, with everyone looking. So much so that it's likely meaningless.
I'm still voting him for
Vezok is a seagull pretending to be an albatross
Not really. Why do you ask? You're null too me, maybe a smidgen to the town side. I like the questions you're asking, but they don't give me too much insight into your alignment.
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Except.. you are one of those people.
Talking about what i meant instead or, idk, asking.
This creates a narrative about me that you can use to convince other people i'm scum.
Also, why are you interpriting what i said differently than how i said it?
vote grapefruit
Azrael (1): vezokpiraka
vezokpiraka (2): tomsloger, shadowlancerx
Grapefruit21 (2): Nancy Drew 39, Rodemy
Rodemy (2): dawningbluesky, Archmage Eternal
Nancy Drew 39 (1): TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
Nobue_Itoh (3): Kazin Drake, KamikazeArchon, Rhand
Kazin Drake (1): Nobue_Itoh
dawningbluesky (1): Grapefruit21
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
there is no point in voting for someone you're 100% sure of if it is still early in the Day, especially if there is nothing to gain from added 'pressure'. voting a claimed neutral is the most redundant way of using your vote/weapon, since it will not bring out anything other than disinterest. as voiced by many others, and even myself (#88), it is better to keep Azrael alive unless we have no better option - he acts as a buffer against CFDs. the sympathy you feel is projected, and strongly misinterpreted.
Be grateful, always."
Be grateful, always."
Be grateful, always."