@Nobue: Now that we punched each other in the noses a couple times, get over it. Let's keep it a bit more civil. I tend to post as I catch up and I didn't see your gender preference. The last one was just because you were being a jerk. You're welcome to vote me, but please don't flame and troll me because I've been warned before for getting too "passionate" about these types of things. I explained my reasoning in the post to you. When I voted Nancy it was because of said reasons, "Too aggressive" and "Built off an RVS vote" were just the simplified bullet points. You asked me to explain it and I did, which include the "fake" stuff. I did ask you politely not to question my intelligence and you did it again, so I think you deserved #148.
Just so you know, I'm probably the best player on this forum, if not the world, so yeah...
Dear Nobue, recognizing that you probably get called he a decent amount (it’s the internet and people assume), I understand how it can be frustrating. But do not act aggressively or toxically in such a way as to incite flaming; I guarantee people here aren’t intentionally being jerks about your gender. First and foremost this is a game, where we as the players are respectfully trying to kill each other. There’s no need for anyone to resort to name calling. It’s unhelpful and causes game issues that make it difficult to uphold game integrity. If you legitimately believe someone has stepped out of line, report it to the mods, it’s why they’re here.
There is a reason I wasn't a jerk about it the first time.
To have a player say I was saying something I wasn't and then on top of that ignore what I asked was where it went over the line.
Then on top of that to have him say "Really uptight"
Well. Then.
What did I say you were that you weren't? Is this referring to gender stuff or in-game stuff?
Dear Nobue, recognizing that you probably get called he a decent amount (it’s the internet and people assume), I understand how it can be frustrating. But do not act aggressively or toxically in such a way as to incite flaming; I guarantee people here aren’t intentionally being jerks about your gender. First and foremost this is a game, where we as the players are respectfully trying to kill each other. There’s no need for anyone to resort to name calling. It’s unhelpful and causes game issues that make it difficult to uphold game integrity. If you legitimately believe someone has stepped out of line, report it to the mods, it’s why they’re here.
There is a reason I wasn't a jerk about it the first time.
To have a player say I was saying something I wasn't and then on top of that ignore what I asked was where it went over the line.
Then on top of that to have him say "Really uptight"
Well. Then.
learn to take these situations with a pinch of salt. best advice. this is a game of deceit afterall~
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RE your opinion of AZ... how in the world do you know if Az is a dangerous player or not? You played with him for one game and he was town.
dangerous players are hard to figure out. if someone is hard to read as town, even in one game, I would consider them a dangerous player.
That’s somewhat backwards though. If someone is really easy to read as town and they play very much like that as scum as well, then you could “read” them as town easily in a game where they’re scum.
I’ve had several games where I was “clearly town” and wasn’t. So has Az. The point is that playing one game with someone that you read them strongly as town doesn’t mean they’re easy to read.
That’s somewhat backwards though. If someone is really easy to read as town and they play very much like that as scum as well, then you could “read” them as town easily in a game where they’re scum.
I’ve had several games where I was “clearly town” and wasn’t. So has Az. The point is that playing one game with someone that you read them strongly as town doesn’t mean they’re easy to read.
Back when I was more active and played a bunch of games per year, everyone knew me, and they knew and would comment on my reputation was as an easily readable town player, and a fairly "meh" or weak scum player. It'd take some research, but you could dig up a lot of comments in that vein from my old games. Most of the people from that era have moved on, and very few people have seen many examples of my scum game lately, but DBS isn't saying anything that a ton of good analysts agreed upon and recognized back in the day. My mindset is usually pretty obvious and transparent. In the past several years, I've had one very weird game as a mostly unlynchable killing neutral that I did well in, and I had only one game as a scum player. Every single MTGS player in the game where I was scum, was trying to put my head on a spike, even my teammates, but since it was a cross-town game, I managed to wriggle my way out of it with a ton of effort by spoofing the out of towners who were less familiar with my meta.
In short, if I'm scum, you ought to know it. If I'm town, you ought to know it. I tend to be an open book.
Problem seems to be, lately, a lot of people are just getting paranoid and talking themselves out of trusting pro-town evidence, because "it's the great and fearsome Azrael!" and freaking out that I'm a master scum manipulator capable of tremendous feats of deception, which really, has never been what I'm known for.
RE your opinion of AZ... how in the world do you know if Az is a dangerous player or not? You played with him for one game and he was town.
dangerous players are hard to figure out. if someone is hard to read as town, even in one game, I would consider them a dangerous player.
That’s somewhat backwards though. If someone is really easy to read as town and they play very much like that as scum as well, then you could “read” them as town easily in a game where they’re scum.
I’ve had several games where I was “clearly town” and wasn’t. So has Az. The point is that playing one game with someone that you read them strongly as town doesn’t mean they’re easy to read.
a bullet strays far from its target if slightly misfired from the starting point.
if someone is easy to read as town, and they are town in that game, it goes to show that their alignment will show itself that quickly. that and Azrael is a claimed neutral.
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Alright Az, fair enough. I’ve only played a with you a couple games and heard more than I’ve seen (mind screw is kind of a reputation setting game).
I stand by my argument that Dawning’s logic is jank, but it doesn’t really matter, because you’re most likely neutral anyway.
I agree that Az is probably not today’s lynch, and of all goes well not ever the lynch. I don’t actually think he should be our leader; I think we can do fine with him in the advisor spot.
if someone is easy to read as town, and they are town in that game, it goes to show that their alignment will show itself that quickly. that and Azrael is a claimed neutral.
Tell that to the people I’ve pocketed as scum.
Anyway, who do you think is scum? Town? Who are your top reads?
I'm going to be mostly on mobile for the next 4 days. I can still play but I won't be making any big quote filled cases or paying as much attention. Take my opinions with a grain of salt accordingly.
Didn't get to look at Kazin last night and won't this morning. Kami's statement that they were OoG friends made me intrigued because there is so often subconscious buddying when two people know each other from out of game (see LastWhisper and DBS from Zero Escape for example) and I was interested to see if I could find anything that shed light on eithers motivations. A quick glance didn't and I'm out of time. Think it's worth keeping an eye on though. Familiarity can be used to great effect for pocketing see A Bear pocketing Colin in Dark and Stormy Night mafia if you want an example. It's a short game and Bear isn't in it that long.
The debate around Az being easy to read is silly. Different people find different things easy or hard to read. For example I find everything hard to read.
Terry vs Nobue is a fight that makes me feel slightly better about both of them despite being uncomfortable that it happened at all. I like Terry doubling down and defending his stance as not having changed just having more detail and with Nobue despite wishing it hadn't happened 146 is a gutsy post. Takes a lot of confidence to throw down like that.
@Vezok It was definitely a loaded question and I'd like to see Nobue reply to it. Thinking someone's role claim is bad/anti town enough to assume they're a jester and then backing off over a very vague "a few good points" and no longer wanting to lynch them is silly. Jesters don't happen here. If you think that role is that harmful to town for your mind to have gone to Jester it should have taken a lot more than "a few good points" to not want to lynch them.
if someone is easy to read as town, and they are town in that game, it goes to show that their alignment will show itself that quickly. that and Azrael is a claimed neutral.
Tell that to the people I’ve pocketed as scum.
Anyway, who do you think is scum? Town? Who are your top reads?
you missed the first part of this context, it doesn't apply to dangerous players.
Rod could be scum. has scumleans but votes claimed neutral (#58). Tom ignoring that isn't a good look.
Azrael is the claimed neutral.
everyone else is fine so far.
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Starting to love this game. We have people questioning other peoples gender,then others questioning the intelligence of the dumb people....joking,
don't get all heated
@DBS I think I'm just going to find your level of confidence worrying. Between your confidence that Az is an easy read based off one game and the way you stated there is only one neutral as a fact it's something that would normally scream this person has an agenda and I need to be wary. But I need to remember you just are an extraordinarily confident player. Not having that as a baseline got me into trouble last game.
Rod could be scum. has scumleans but votes claimed neutral (#58). Tom ignoring that isn't a good look.
Azrael is the claimed neutral.
everyone else is fine so far.
Why Tom specifically? A lot of people ignored that, why would Tom ignoring it be significant?
Dig more into that Rodemy read, what do you think of his follow up?
@DBS I think I'm just going to find your level of confidence worrying. Between your confidence that Az is an easy read based off one game and the way you stated there is only one neutral as a fact it's something that would normally scream this person has an agenda and I need to be wary. But I need to remember you just are an extraordinarily confident player. Not having that as a baseline got me into trouble last game.
since when was confidence a scumtell? it doesn't say anything about mindset. but ok
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2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Rod could be scum. has scumleans but votes claimed neutral (#58). Tom ignoring that isn't a good look.
Azrael is the claimed neutral.
everyone else is fine so far.
Why Tom specifically? A lot of people ignored that, why would Tom ignoring it be significant?
Dig more into that Rodemy read, what do you think of his follow up?
Tom's #120. it covers most players caught up in neut claim, except Rodemy. asked but it was one legged seagull to pigeon.
Rodemy's followup still looks bad. focus on neutral and not his scumleans (Kamikaze and you).
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@DBS I think I'm just going to find your level of confidence worrying. Between your confidence that Az is an easy read based off one game and the way you stated there is only one neutral as a fact it's something that would normally scream this person has an agenda and I need to be wary. But I need to remember you just are an extraordinarily confident player. Not having that as a baseline got me into trouble last game.
since when was confidence a scumtell? it doesn't say anything about mindset. but ok
It isn't if anything it's a slight town tell, but asserting things as facts that I don't have confidence in (Az being easy to read, there only being one neutral) feels like pushing an agenda if I don't account for the fact that you are an naturally confident player. With that adjustment it looks less like my first instinct of you knowing to much or trying to use the idea of Az as the only neutral to your benefit down the line and much more like you did last game where you very confidently asserted things I disagreed with all game. And were mostly right.
@DBS if he'd called them scum reads I'd see more credence in your point. Rod clearly believes Az's role is anti town (an assessment I don't share) so focusing on someone who in his mind has claimed to be anti town rather than merely suspected of being anti town makes sense. Also it's Rodemy. Making that sort of read fits both his metas. Not sure what to make of tom on the whole yet, but I think his reaction to Rodemy there is NAI.
I'm liking shadow. Probing, evaluation. Feeling like genuinely looking for scum.
I'm disliking nobue. Defensiveness with no real reason (the "what does this serve" thing, not the gender thing). This line: "Shadow seems to be fearmongering quite a bit. Which is worrisome, but also seems to be very town." That's a hell of a fencesit.
@DBS I think I'm just going to find your level of confidence worrying. Between your confidence that Az is an easy read based off one game and the way you stated there is only one neutral as a fact it's something that would normally scream this person has an agenda and I need to be wary. But I need to remember you just are an extraordinarily confident player. Not having that as a baseline got me into trouble last game.
since when was confidence a scumtell? it doesn't say anything about mindset. but ok
It isn't if anything it's a slight town tell, but asserting things as facts that I don't have confidence in (Az being easy to read, there only being one neutral) feels like pushing an agenda if I don't account for the fact that you are an naturally confident player. With that adjustment it looks less like my first instinct of you knowing to much or trying to use the idea of Az as the only neutral to your benefit down the line and much more like you did last game where you very confidently asserted things I disagreed with all game. And were mostly right.
@DBS if he'd called them scum reads I'd see more credence in your point. Rod clearly believes Az's role is anti town (an assessment I don't share) so focusing on someone who in his mind has claimed to be anti town rather than merely suspected of being anti town makes sense. Also it's Rodemy. Making that sort of read fits both his metas. Not sure what to make of tom on the whole yet, but I think his reaction to Rodemy there is NAI.
fun fact: many say I word speculation as fact. thought I mentioned that in ZE.
if Rodemy believes Azrael, as he claims, he should believe the proposal to side town is genuine. in that perspective, going for a scumlean was a better option. voting claimed neutral might look better if he had no scumleans.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
I'm liking shadow. Probing, evaluation. Feeling like genuinely looking for scum.
I'm disliking nobue. Defensiveness with no real reason (the "what does this serve" thing, not the gender thing). This line: "Shadow seems to be fearmongering quite a bit. Which is worrisome, but also seems to be very town." That's a hell of a fencesit.
In what way was that defensive?
Also the shadow comment was a fencesit but wasn't supposed to be. What I wanted to express is that Shadow is towny, but is spending way too much time on Azreal. Needs to be doing more useful things. Worrisome in the sense that we have someone I'm reading as town not participating and fixating over something that isn't going to happen today.
I'm liking shadow. Probing, evaluation. Feeling like genuinely looking for scum.
I'm disliking nobue. Defensiveness with no real reason (the "what does this serve" thing, not the gender thing). This line: "Shadow seems to be fearmongering quite a bit. Which is worrisome, but also seems to be very town." That's a hell of a fencesit.
In what way was that defensive?
Also the shadow comment was a fencesit but wasn't supposed to be. What I wanted to express is that Shadow is towny, but is spending way too much time on Azreal. Needs to be doing more useful things. Worrisome in the sense that we have someone I'm reading as town not participating and fixating over something that isn't going to happen today.
Well you did call me a stupid idiot. Talk to me about Nancy. I put pressure on Nancy and she disappeared. Do you still think she's town?
I'm liking shadow. Probing, evaluation. Feeling like genuinely looking for scum.
I'm disliking nobue. Defensiveness with no real reason (the "what does this serve" thing, not the gender thing). This line: "Shadow seems to be fearmongering quite a bit. Which is worrisome, but also seems to be very town." That's a hell of a fencesit.
In what way was that defensive?
Also the shadow comment was a fencesit but wasn't supposed to be. What I wanted to express is that Shadow is towny, but is spending way too much time on Azreal. Needs to be doing more useful things. Worrisome in the sense that we have someone I'm reading as town not participating and fixating over something that isn't going to happen today.
Well you did call me a stupid idiot. Talk to me about Nancy. I put pressure on Nancy and she disappeared. Do you still think she's town?
How is that DEFENSIVE.
Also you and Kamikaze need to learn to let others answer the question directed to them.
Nancy has done nothing that has seemed bad to me. Maybe busy. You really think a player is going to lurk after that one attack of yours?
I'm liking shadow. Probing, evaluation. Feeling like genuinely looking for scum.
I'm disliking nobue. Defensiveness with no real reason (the "what does this serve" thing, not the gender thing). This line: "Shadow seems to be fearmongering quite a bit. Which is worrisome, but also seems to be very town." That's a hell of a fencesit.
In what way was that defensive?
Also the shadow comment was a fencesit but wasn't supposed to be. What I wanted to express is that Shadow is towny, but is spending way too much time on Azreal. Needs to be doing more useful things. Worrisome in the sense that we have someone I'm reading as town not participating and fixating over something that isn't going to happen today.
Well you did call me a stupid idiot. Talk to me about Nancy. I put pressure on Nancy and she disappeared. Do you still think she's town?
How is that DEFENSIVE.
Also you and Kamikaze need to learn to let others answer the question directed to them.
Nancy has done nothing that has seemed bad to me. Maybe busy. You really think a player is going to lurk after that one attack of yours?
I guess you didn't notice it was a joke. I wasn't seriously answering the question. It does seem to me that Nancy disappeared after I called her out on the Faux Grape case.
@DBS why does believing Az's claim = not wanting to lynch him? It seems to me the people most generally skeptical of his claim have been the ones least interested in lynching him. I think the proposal if making him act town aligned (no hammers) is a good one but not everyone (Vexok, Kazin, and Rod to name three) agrees. Basically I don't agree with your premise that wanting to lynch him and believing his claim is a scum tell. If anything I'd assume town would want to keep him alive.
@Nobue are you going to keep ignoring my questions? Vote: Nobue
Explain your progression on Az. It makes no sense.
@Shadow top 3 town reads please. If you want to wait for Nancy that's fine, but I want yours next.
Rhand the sea turtle swam seamlessly from from a theological view of the iceberg to birdwatching. This is his natural habitat.
Vezok bird expanded and scattered, the molecules forming a cloud. Still he has just decided that the iceberg must be dealt with now and the winds be damned.
A bunch of things that didn't matter happened around the ship, and were duly ignored in this narrative.
Grape still jumping from the water and executing beautiful flips.
Archmage is but a flash of light but it looks to be a sunbeam
Posting with restricted time: So I'm sorry about lack of quotes.
@Rhand: I appreciate the breakdown. There's parts in there I'm not 100% sure I agree with, but I think you've got the right track for about 60% of the group at least, yet it doesn't give any indication by you on how you feel. Giving info can go in multiple directions. You could be pointing out this as a way to call attention to Scum for townie targeting, or you could be playing the actual townie observer and trying to help spot the scum early on. Sadly, no questions to add, just commentary to think on.
@Shadow: Sorry if I've missed anything. The game has jumped up and had some OOG developments that got me evaluating reactions... So, in this, I'll say "no it's not something I'm familiar with" if that wasn't clear yet, and if I missed something, let me know.
Unvote
I did however get a chance to hear out a ton of arguments and responses from people. I will point out that knowing Kami on an OOG level usually means I'm more likely to distrust him because I know his tells and just always assume he's the werewolf/scum. So far, I'm finding it's a different interaction to interpret him through text based mediums, so that's fun at least.
My main focus now has shifted to Nobue... The general responses she's given have tossed up red flags. Scum, from my previous games, have always been the quickest to feel the need to over-explain and justify their actions. To try and shoot down 'Defensive' claims or anything else that might call their words into even the slightest bit of question. Because of that, I'm willing to go against my gut instinct to always target the guy who is in it for himself and let him slide for a round or two and see how much of a danger Az becomes in 2-3 days.
You’ve come out swinging, strong entrance and have kept it going
Rhand had depth to his reads and analysis. Whoever said his post looked like he was being inconsistent (I think it was nobue?) is wrong. There was finesse to his reads.
Kamikaze had a good reaction to Az’s claim and I agree with his plan/treatment.
Dearest Tom: I’m seeing a lot of observation from your posts, and your thoughts are relatively clear, but I’m not really getting any analysis or scum hunting from them. Am I wrong?
My main focus now has shifted to Nobue... The general responses she's given have tossed up red flags. Scum, from my previous games, have always been the quickest to feel the need to over-explain and justify their actions. To try and shoot down 'Defensive' claims or anything else that might call their words into even the slightest bit of question. Because of that, I'm willing to go against my gut instinct to always target the guy who is in it for himself and let him slide for a round or two and see how much of a danger Az becomes in 2-3 days.
I've done the exact opposite of this though. I straight up refused to explain myself, and didn't over explain at all. I did the exact opposite of what you are accusing me of. I only relented after many people kept bringing it up.
Also now I'm defensive for getting annoyed at a fake defensive claim on me. Circular logic much?
This attack is so fake.
Vote Kazin Drake
@Grapefruit.
I didn't see it as relevant at all. My progression makes a lot of sense. I thought hey maybe Azreal is trying to die for the win.
Then it was pointed out to me probably not. So, then the validity of the claim came into question.
I believe Azreal is probably neutral, I believe that his abilities probably are close to how he claimed.
Do I want to lynch him now? No.
Day 4-5 MAYBE. But this can be revisited much later.
Dearest Tom: I’m seeing a lot of observation from your posts, and your thoughts are relatively clear, but I’m not really getting any analysis or scum hunting from them. Am I wrong?
the sun is still low in the sky, and little has been fully illuminated.
Dearest Tom: I’m seeing a lot of observation from your posts, and your thoughts are relatively clear, but I’m not really getting any analysis or scum hunting from them. Am I wrong?
the sun is still low in the sky, and little has been fully illuminated.
I miss our continuous chats. Can you be town or just kill me night one?
You could be pointing out this as a way to call attention to Scum for townie targeting,
Explain this.
In this case, I mean that quickly labeling people as one thing or another with analysis like this has it's own parts. Pointedly calling out who is townies and who is Scum works well for both sides. It could be a plan to help Scum find townies to target early in the first day/night scenario, or it could just be helpful reads to share with others.
@Kazin: cool, so my question now is: Did Kamikaze describe the night only chat to you when telling you about the forum layout of this game?
It was described to me, and I read the description and rules of the game. Unless I wildly misread/understood the situation, Scum doesn't get access to the Night Chat prior to the night phase. Which means they could accidentally target one another in the day time.
@Nobue: I honestly see the counter-vote my direction as just further proof... I could be way off the mark, but it sounds to me like you are arguing heavily at the idea of any of your words being suspect at all. Either way, time will tell.
Or running the best first-timer gambit I've seen, which I won't put completely past him, I suppose. He has played the ignorance card in the past (remember Merlin?).
1) Archmage Eternal. Absolutely useless posts, but I especially don'y like #173. The exact same post was given by terry a few posts back. My gut is saying this isn't right at all.
2)Kazin Drake. His first posts go after Azrael like there's no tomorrow and then he suddenly shifts his stance and decides to leave Az alive. This feels like a going with the wave. I also don't really like the jump on Nobue wagon.
I don't have a clear third scum read I need to see more posts from people.
@Kazin: cool, so my question now is: Did Kamikaze describe the night only chat to you when telling you about the forum layout of this game?
It was described to me, and I read the description and rules of the game. Unless I wildly misread/understood the situation, Scum doesn't get access to the Night Chat prior to the night phase. Which means they could accidentally target one another in the day time.
How do both of you know scum have night chat when it wasn't confirmed anywhere in thread?
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1) Archmage Eternal. Absolutely useless posts, but I especially don'y like #173. The exact same post was given by terry a few posts back. My gut is saying this isn't right at all.
2)Kazin Drake. His first posts go after Azrael like there's no tomorrow and then he suddenly shifts his stance and decides to leave Az alive. This feels like a going with the wave. I also don't really like the jump on Nobue wagon.
I don't have a clear third scum read I need to see more posts from people.
@Kazin: cool, so my question now is: Did Kamikaze describe the night only chat to you when telling you about the forum layout of this game?
It was described to me, and I read the description and rules of the game. Unless I wildly misread/understood the situation, Scum doesn't get access to the Night Chat prior to the night phase. Which means they could accidentally target one another in the day time.
How do both of you know scum have night chat when it wasn't confirmed anywhere in thread?
History? Plus every game of Werewolf/Mafia game I know, even the super short ones, have some kind of reference to there being some night time communication between the Scum roles. The thread itself doesn't have it, but the rules outline certainly does explain how it usually works. Though I may have followed a bad link, I thought I recalled there being a tutorial on what to expect from the Mafia games. I could have followed a bad or old link though...? That said: I can suggest re-reading my switch to Nobue. We're getting later in the day, and I have a feeling that Az has convinced a lot of people, and while I still stand opposed to the idea of a single player victory in a game of teams, I would like to point out I did call attention to why I switched to Nobue. Read changed and I'm certainly not going to get enough support to take out Az at 0 stolen souls.
Just so you know, I'm probably the best player on this forum, if not the world, so yeah...
I don't. but the playstyle is shaping out to be from a consistent mindset.
Be grateful, always."
Be grateful, always."
I’ve had several games where I was “clearly town” and wasn’t. So has Az. The point is that playing one game with someone that you read them strongly as town doesn’t mean they’re easy to read.
Question is should we lynch Azreal today?
If no lets move on. If yes, then make a case.
Azreal's pedigree should not matter much at all. Seems way too in the weeds of an argument to me.
Terry seems better. But I'll keep an eye on them.
Shadow seems to be fearmongering quite a bit. Which is worrisome, but also seems to be very town. Need more posts from others to determine more.
Back when I was more active and played a bunch of games per year, everyone knew me, and they knew and would comment on my reputation was as an easily readable town player, and a fairly "meh" or weak scum player. It'd take some research, but you could dig up a lot of comments in that vein from my old games. Most of the people from that era have moved on, and very few people have seen many examples of my scum game lately, but DBS isn't saying anything that a ton of good analysts agreed upon and recognized back in the day. My mindset is usually pretty obvious and transparent. In the past several years, I've had one very weird game as a mostly unlynchable killing neutral that I did well in, and I had only one game as a scum player. Every single MTGS player in the game where I was scum, was trying to put my head on a spike, even my teammates, but since it was a cross-town game, I managed to wriggle my way out of it with a ton of effort by spoofing the out of towners who were less familiar with my meta.
In short, if I'm scum, you ought to know it. If I'm town, you ought to know it. I tend to be an open book.
Even so, why is this being discussed? He is a claimed neutral.
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We are lynching Az today. Every day we prolong his life is going to cost us.
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if someone is easy to read as town, and they are town in that game, it goes to show that their alignment will show itself that quickly. that and Azrael is a claimed neutral.
Be grateful, always."
I stand by my argument that Dawning’s logic is jank, but it doesn’t really matter, because you’re most likely neutral anyway.
I agree that Az is probably not today’s lynch, and of all goes well not ever the lynch. I don’t actually think he should be our leader; I think we can do fine with him in the advisor spot.
Anyway, who do you think is scum? Town? Who are your top reads?
Didn't get to look at Kazin last night and won't this morning. Kami's statement that they were OoG friends made me intrigued because there is so often subconscious buddying when two people know each other from out of game (see LastWhisper and DBS from Zero Escape for example) and I was interested to see if I could find anything that shed light on eithers motivations. A quick glance didn't and I'm out of time. Think it's worth keeping an eye on though. Familiarity can be used to great effect for pocketing see A Bear pocketing Colin in Dark and Stormy Night mafia if you want an example. It's a short game and Bear isn't in it that long.
The debate around Az being easy to read is silly. Different people find different things easy or hard to read. For example I find everything hard to read.
Terry vs Nobue is a fight that makes me feel slightly better about both of them despite being uncomfortable that it happened at all. I like Terry doubling down and defending his stance as not having changed just having more detail and with Nobue despite wishing it hadn't happened 146 is a gutsy post. Takes a lot of confidence to throw down like that.
@Vezok It was definitely a loaded question and I'd like to see Nobue reply to it. Thinking someone's role claim is bad/anti town enough to assume they're a jester and then backing off over a very vague "a few good points" and no longer wanting to lynch them is silly. Jesters don't happen here. If you think that role is that harmful to town for your mind to have gone to Jester it should have taken a lot more than "a few good points" to not want to lynch them.
Rod could be scum. has scumleans but votes claimed neutral (#58). Tom ignoring that isn't a good look.
Azrael is the claimed neutral.
everyone else is fine so far.
Be grateful, always."
don't get all heated
back to reading, carry on.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Dig more into that Rodemy read, what do you think of his follow up?
Be grateful, always."
Archmage Eternal (1): KamikazeArchon
Azrael (3): vezokpiraka, Kazin Drake, Rodemy
vezokpiraka (2): Grapefruit21, tomsloger
Grapefruit21 (1): Nancy Drew 39
Rodemy (2): dawningbluesky, Archmage Eternal
Nancy Drew 39 (1): TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
dawningbluesky (1): Rhand
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (1): Nobue_Itoh
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
No we are not. Now knock it off and look elsewhere
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Rodemy's followup still looks bad. focus on neutral and not his scumleans (Kamikaze and you).
Be grateful, always."
It isn't if anything it's a slight town tell, but asserting things as facts that I don't have confidence in (Az being easy to read, there only being one neutral) feels like pushing an agenda if I don't account for the fact that you are an naturally confident player. With that adjustment it looks less like my first instinct of you knowing to much or trying to use the idea of Az as the only neutral to your benefit down the line and much more like you did last game where you very confidently asserted things I disagreed with all game. And were mostly right.
@DBS if he'd called them scum reads I'd see more credence in your point. Rod clearly believes Az's role is anti town (an assessment I don't share) so focusing on someone who in his mind has claimed to be anti town rather than merely suspected of being anti town makes sense. Also it's Rodemy. Making that sort of read fits both his metas. Not sure what to make of tom on the whole yet, but I think his reaction to Rodemy there is NAI.
I'm disliking nobue. Defensiveness with no real reason (the "what does this serve" thing, not the gender thing). This line: "Shadow seems to be fearmongering quite a bit. Which is worrisome, but also seems to be very town." That's a hell of a fencesit.
if Rodemy believes Azrael, as he claims, he should believe the proposal to side town is genuine. in that perspective, going for a scumlean was a better option. voting claimed neutral might look better if he had no scumleans.
Be grateful, always."
In what way was that defensive?
Also the shadow comment was a fencesit but wasn't supposed to be. What I wanted to express is that Shadow is towny, but is spending way too much time on Azreal. Needs to be doing more useful things. Worrisome in the sense that we have someone I'm reading as town not participating and fixating over something that isn't going to happen today.
How is that DEFENSIVE.
Also you and Kamikaze need to learn to let others answer the question directed to them.
Nancy has done nothing that has seemed bad to me. Maybe busy. You really think a player is going to lurk after that one attack of yours?
But seriously, perhaps a more specific adjective is "prickly" or "tense". Why are you tense?
@Nobue are you going to keep ignoring my questions? Vote: Nobue
Explain your progression on Az. It makes no sense.
@Shadow top 3 town reads please. If you want to wait for Nancy that's fine, but I want yours next.
Vezok bird expanded and scattered, the molecules forming a cloud. Still he has just decided that the iceberg must be dealt with now and the winds be damned.
A bunch of things that didn't matter happened around the ship, and were duly ignored in this narrative.
Grape still jumping from the water and executing beautiful flips.
Archmage is but a flash of light but it looks to be a sunbeam
@Rhand: I appreciate the breakdown. There's parts in there I'm not 100% sure I agree with, but I think you've got the right track for about 60% of the group at least, yet it doesn't give any indication by you on how you feel. Giving info can go in multiple directions. You could be pointing out this as a way to call attention to Scum for townie targeting, or you could be playing the actual townie observer and trying to help spot the scum early on. Sadly, no questions to add, just commentary to think on.
@Shadow: Sorry if I've missed anything. The game has jumped up and had some OOG developments that got me evaluating reactions... So, in this, I'll say "no it's not something I'm familiar with" if that wasn't clear yet, and if I missed something, let me know.
Unvote
I did however get a chance to hear out a ton of arguments and responses from people. I will point out that knowing Kami on an OOG level usually means I'm more likely to distrust him because I know his tells and just always assume he's the werewolf/scum. So far, I'm finding it's a different interaction to interpret him through text based mediums, so that's fun at least.
My main focus now has shifted to Nobue... The general responses she's given have tossed up red flags. Scum, from my previous games, have always been the quickest to feel the need to over-explain and justify their actions. To try and shoot down 'Defensive' claims or anything else that might call their words into even the slightest bit of question. Because of that, I'm willing to go against my gut instinct to always target the guy who is in it for himself and let him slide for a round or two and see how much of a danger Az becomes in 2-3 days.
Vote: Nobue
You rhand and kamikaze
You’ve come out swinging, strong entrance and have kept it going
Rhand had depth to his reads and analysis. Whoever said his post looked like he was being inconsistent (I think it was nobue?) is wrong. There was finesse to his reads.
Kamikaze had a good reaction to Az’s claim and I agree with his plan/treatment.
I've done the exact opposite of this though. I straight up refused to explain myself, and didn't over explain at all. I did the exact opposite of what you are accusing me of. I only relented after many people kept bringing it up.
Also now I'm defensive for getting annoyed at a fake defensive claim on me. Circular logic much?
This attack is so fake.
Vote Kazin Drake
@Grapefruit.
I didn't see it as relevant at all. My progression makes a lot of sense. I thought hey maybe Azreal is trying to die for the win.
Then it was pointed out to me probably not. So, then the validity of the claim came into question.
I believe Azreal is probably neutral, I believe that his abilities probably are close to how he claimed.
Do I want to lynch him now? No.
Day 4-5 MAYBE. But this can be revisited much later.
In this case, I mean that quickly labeling people as one thing or another with analysis like this has it's own parts. Pointedly calling out who is townies and who is Scum works well for both sides. It could be a plan to help Scum find townies to target early in the first day/night scenario, or it could just be helpful reads to share with others.
It was described to me, and I read the description and rules of the game. Unless I wildly misread/understood the situation, Scum doesn't get access to the Night Chat prior to the night phase. Which means they could accidentally target one another in the day time.
@Nobue: I honestly see the counter-vote my direction as just further proof... I could be way off the mark, but it sounds to me like you are arguing heavily at the idea of any of your words being suspect at all. Either way, time will tell.
Still, seems low probability.
It's page 4. I don't have 3 scum reads.
1) Archmage Eternal. Absolutely useless posts, but I especially don'y like #173. The exact same post was given by terry a few posts back. My gut is saying this isn't right at all.
2)Kazin Drake. His first posts go after Azrael like there's no tomorrow and then he suddenly shifts his stance and decides to leave Az alive. This feels like a going with the wave. I also don't really like the jump on Nobue wagon.
I don't have a clear third scum read I need to see more posts from people.
Speaking of scumreads
How do both of you know scum have night chat when it wasn't confirmed anywhere in thread?
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
History? Plus every game of Werewolf/Mafia game I know, even the super short ones, have some kind of reference to there being some night time communication between the Scum roles. The thread itself doesn't have it, but the rules outline certainly does explain how it usually works. Though I may have followed a bad link, I thought I recalled there being a tutorial on what to expect from the Mafia games. I could have followed a bad or old link though...? That said: I can suggest re-reading my switch to Nobue. We're getting later in the day, and I have a feeling that Az has convinced a lot of people, and while I still stand opposed to the idea of a single player victory in a game of teams, I would like to point out I did call attention to why I switched to Nobue. Read changed and I'm certainly not going to get enough support to take out Az at 0 stolen souls.
Small case coming.