I'm still not caught up at all. Been surprisingly busy. Nancy not checking in at all is worrying. Going to try to scope her out later and see if there are any red flags there. But no promises I've been much busier than expected lately...
@DBS your argument that town are more likely to have one narrative and scum less likely is not something I agree with at all. And focusing someone for "good" play (scum would have wide focus to try and appear townie) seems counter productive. I agree DV's switch was eyebrow raising, but the supplemental wide focus reasoning is not something I can get behind.
You've been calling me scum. You've voted me. You have me near the bottom of your scum ranking. But here you have me "newb town". This is a slip. I was starting to wonder if your scumminess really was just playstyle but this ratchets me right back into certainty. 85%+ on scum-DV.
I want shadow and tom specifically to give me their thoughts on the other's alignment.
I want kazin to give me an analysis on anyone but DV or Az.
Do you understand English?
Kamikaze and Kazin's views on me are newb town.
What is the subject of this sentence?
The subject of the sentence is Kamikaze and Kazin's VIEWS.
Not Kamikaze and Kazin as the subjects, but the views.
I want shadow and tom specifically to give me their thoughts on the other's alignment.
I think he’s town. I went into some detail on this just a couple of posts ago. I dislike that he’s scum reading me, but I don’t actually think it’s cause he’s scum.
Town:
Az
Kazin – Slip cleared
DBS
Kami
DV/nobue
Tom
Grape
AE
Shrug:
Vez - Gonna chalk up the questionable stuff to play-style until I reread him.
Rhand – No neg pings from record, so lean-town.
Nancy – too many nervous, fish out of water tells to get a clear read
So I will also admit to being a new player. The only experience I have with the game is so far in table-top versions of similar games. My greatest expertise so far is with Ultimate One-Night Werewolf. Not quite on the same tier here. Study in cold-reading helps me a lot in the personal games, but online, everything is skewed and tossed about in a way that makes it harder to understand. I know this question wasn't asked of me, but I'll just get this out there. I didn't come in with a plan other than "play the role you were dealt." I read the rules, and I jumped right in while listening to people. I generally believe Kami is town, because in the past I have never seen him play a scum role that he has put in this much investigation on... but I generally avoid commenting on him because of our offline association so I trust him to do a good job of keeping his own head above water.
That all being the lead in to this: I disagree with everything Nobue/DV is still doing/has done. Her scum leans and responses are never for a real reason, but just a retaliation should anyone say anything cross about her. Nearly every vote I've seen from her is: "I don't like that you said *blank* about me, vote you." When it felt like things were headed in the direction of taking her to the lynch point, she got volatile and rude, which the mods stepped in and asked to stop. I want this to be clear, this isn't meant to attack the player so much as this 'character' they were role playing.
Her next step after returning was to swap accounts, replace herself? with another name and "suddenly be more reasonable." But I don't see it. Aside from the Archer .gifs, it feels the same. A series of lashing out at anyone who might call her behavior into question, circling the same lines of conversation and deciding that things like her initial defensiveness should be called out by saying "I'm being defensive because I'm being called defensive." The sudden latch onto Dawning also doesn't strike me as a normal bit of help to a typical person's behavior. Now there's a lot of possible explanations... I'm sure if I had to make something up on the spot as a scum player I could... but so far I just do not see it.
Now, I have heard the trappings of getting yourself completely dead-set on a single target and not looking to other possible solutions, but I am not seeing a reason here. Day 1 with so much wild accusation in the air, the only one I see that just continually jumps out is the one whose entire play has been, "No I'm not. You are." Summed up, that is nearly every play from Nobue/DV. There's a couple more in there, including this most recent trend of latching onto someone who I think is getting poorly accused and focused in Dawning. While I am not as confident on my Dawning read as I am on my Nobue/DV read, I am still pretty confident in it.
I do hope however that it's not a common play in the future to just "replace yourself" with a new personality to wash suspicion from yourself... because nearly nothing has changed since the "replacement".
Final points and the tl;dr version:
Nobue/DV is scum. Vote D_V (If my vote wasn't clear enough before, I'll switch it to the "replacement" name and make it quite clear.)
@Shadow: Yeah, I am willing to do that. I am still going to be looking at others, and I do have other leans for various reasons. I'm currently looking into back-reading a few posts. I think we have a witch hunt on for DBS, which is why I haven't hopped on that wagon. As I said, You and Tom are in my top leans, and KamikazeArchon I am still sitting a fence on... but I know that part of that is that I know him offline and am always suspicious of him because I know he's good at masking his scum-tendencies when he is playing one. The problem I have there is that he tends to have the same method of play whether it's scum or town, and that has always been one of his strengths... and a town detriment.
So my list currently sits like this. I don't really see a reason to hold it back any more, whereas originally I thought it might be good to get a scum member or two to play along and learn about them by not calling them out early.
D_V: Scum for all the reasons I've stated: Plus the continued posts since then.
Nancy: Scum lean: Nancy is still not responding at a level I'd like and I'm not sure how to feel about that. Her answer to my comment was almost a week ago made sense, but doesn't really help me form a great bit of idea on them. I'm also new to the site and play style, but I have been trying to be active.
Rodemy: Scum lean: Mostly how I got here is related to an entry in a few seconds... but the rivalry there has me suspicious and watching. The other reason is that a lot of people who I feel like-minded to seem to be looking his way, plus his "always behind" posting feels like a smokescreen.
Azrael: Neutral/Scum Lean: Either his claim of neutral is correct, or it was a great scum-play out of the gate. I wanted to hold this evaluation back to see how he handled the Neutral claim being mostly accepted, even if the neutral bit itself provokes some ire and interest in the lynch department.
Terry: Null. I dunno why but his posts are just unmemorable and easily overlooked (by me). It's kept me from forming a strong read on him, so all the suspicion I have on him comes from others' points of view. I've back-read his posts and they still just feel middle-road.
Rhand: Null. For every town-helping behavior I see, I also see a scum one. I know he's absent for a couple more days for work stuff, but it still feels it. And while I like his support in the D_V vote I'm not the biggest fan of how he got there in that a big portion is that he just didn't like D_V's posts.
KamikazeArchon: Middling/slight Town lean - Details above
Archmage Eternal: Town Lean - Archmage has always been quick to jump on good points, answer in a way that feels natural, presented himself in a way that feels very townie focused.
Grapefruit: Town-Lean - Almost every action has felt townie to me so far. In his responses and the way he's been targeted, he has answered in what feels like an explanatory manner as opposed to a defensive one.
@Grapefruit: In regards to your question about the post: yes... it was weird and feels scripted. I wanna explain it, but every time I type it, I just see it ending poorly. If enough people push, I'll just toss caution to the wind and throw it out there, but there is a very pointed reason I'd rather not say.
Vezok: Town-Lean - Most posts I have seen from him are at a delay, and I think that's the time zone involved: but it also feels like most posts are generally fact-finding and not laced with shading. Feels more like someone trying to find the "gotcha" moment and getting them to trip over their words.
@Vezok Another one who has pressed for info on that mod post, so see what I said for Grapefruit.
Dawning: Town-Lean - A variety of reasons including a thorough and in depth response to the things that have targeted her, some of the conversations I've watched her have with others, some of the conversations others have had about her, and the conversations with me all factored in. Plus that claim feels genuine to me. Oh... and a small factor, but still there: D_V's focused hounding of her.
Tom: Town - Fairly sure that most of this has been from a town perspective. It's been helpful and concise and when the metaphors were too cryptic he wasn't afraid to break the gimmick a bit to keep focus on the scum-like people.
Shadow: Town - The way you push and the questions you use don't scream "who are you" so much as draw out answers that tell that in a unique way. I feel that a lot of your question line has given me insight to work with on the way players are reacting and playing things out. For someone who plays by reading other people: this pleases me greatly and falls in the category of people trying to help.
Archmage Eternal: Town Lean - Archmage has always been quick to jump on good points, answer in a way that feels natural, presented himself in a way that feels very townie focused.
Uhhh
What?
Rhand: Null. For every town-helping behavior I see, I also see a scum one. I know he's absent for a couple more days for work stuff, but it still feels it. And while I like his support in the D_V vote I'm not the biggest fan of how he got there in that a big portion is that he just didn't like D_V's posts.
A series of lashing out at anyone who might call her behavior into question, circling the same lines of conversation and deciding that things like her initial defensiveness should be called out by saying "I'm being defensive because I'm being called defensive." The sudden latch onto Dawning also doesn't strike me as a normal bit of help to a typical person's behavior. Now there's a lot of possible explanations... I'm sure if I had to make something up on the spot as a scum player I could... but so far I just do not see it.
At this point I just find playing with players like Kazin and Kamikaze frustrating beyond belief.
Kazins reads read made up.
Kamikaze I'm starting to doubt. Why because of that call with the "Thinks I'm town slip". I just don't see scum making that play, maybe I'm going to meta. But do scum really read the game that closely? Even though he is wrong, still the effort.
Its just so flippant. There is no order. Half the reads contradict themselves.
Maybe Tom is goading me to on this Kamikaze read. The moment Tom pressured Kamikaze I felt vindicated. This isn't a good spot to be.
All I see with that Kazin post is scum, and yet I feel like I have to read him as town. IDK what to do.
AE is the 6th Town read with 10 total posts. Half of which aren't even real posts. So 5 posts.
Five.
But meanwhile scum reads one player who actually has a reason to be gone.
When I come back I'm probabally not going to interact with Kazin again. You guys can baby sit or attempt to coach him. But I'm done. I may or may not interact with Kamikaze. I don't know, I need to just step back. Take a chill pill. But this isn't fun. It isn't fun to argue with people that repeat the same ***** over and over again.
Her next step after returning was to swap accounts, replace herself? with another name and "suddenly be more reasonable." But I don't see it. Aside from the Archer .gifs, it feels the same. A series of lashing out at anyone who might call her behavior into question, circling the same lines of conversation and deciding that things like her initial defensiveness should be called out by saying "I'm being defensive because I'm being called defensive." The sudden latch onto Dawning also doesn't strike me as a normal bit of help to a typical person's behavior. Now there's a lot of possible explanations... I'm sure if I had to make something up on the spot as a scum player I could... but so far I just do not see it.
Kazin refuses to back this claim up. It really makes me want to scream. I really can't express how much fun it sucks out when this is allowed to happen.
Kazin doesn't care about the truth. He just wants to "Win the argument".
At this point I just find playing with players like Kazin and Kamikaze frustrating beyond belief.
I still believe you're scum and you're using frustration as essentially an AtE. But on the chance the frustration is real (which could be true whether you're town or scum - town frustration if I'm really misreading you or scum frustration for getting caught so early) I want to point out that I'm just trying to win the game. It makes sense for me to hunt down my scum targets even if the manner of my hunting causes them frustration. I'm also happy to talk after the game is over, especially if it turns out I am wrong about you, about how you could prove yourself town even at this point - but I'm obviously not going to lay it out here and now.
@DBS your argument that town are more likely to have one narrative and scum less likely is not something I agree with at all. And focusing someone for "good" play (scum would have wide focus to try and appear townie) seems counter productive. I agree DV's switch was eyebrow raising, but the supplemental wide focus reasoning is not something I can get behind.
if you look at the context of DV's arguments, in general...
[#707 about Kamikaze] God that fishing early looks really bad then and the perma tunnel on me.
he is saying that only scum tunnel, aka have only one narrative. from Zero Escape and my experience, it is usually town who tunnel. town don't have the information to avoid tunnels, they can only work off what they have. not sure what you mean by wide focus, but having a better view of things usually denotes inside information - it shows that you aren't working with information you've gleaned, since you don't need it.
it's rare to find townies who can avoid tunnels or work with mass reads, since that drains their energy or solving ability.
I don't really understand what you want me to say. Their votes are bad. I don't know why they are voting me at this point. They have never established it. I'm ignoring Kazin, because kazin is so new that I've been convinced he just has to be town at this point. At this point he is painfully reminiscent of of Maelstrom players.
I wasn't really caught in that game at all. If that is your interpretation you should go back and reread the game. I went all in on a plan and got hard punished by the cop having checked Shadow. It was already a gamble for me to try and get Shadow lynched, but that was game over.
1. if newb town tend to approach you that way, why do you say that Kamikaze is scum? also, why isn't Nancy reacting to you in that 'newb town' way?
2. Kamikaze and Kazin are equally experienced, if they come from the same background. why do you say Kazin is so convincingly town? also, iirc you said he isn't confirmed town and it was ridiculous to flavor-clear him.
3. you weren't caught redhanded, but that duration in D1 had Shadow on your tail to a lynchable point. the gist of this topic though, I know how your scumgame is like, and it lacks the tunneling and waffling that town would have - becoming rather opportunistic more than gamesolving.
Kazin refuses to back this claim up. It really makes me want to scream. I really can't express how much fun it sucks out when this is allowed to happen.
Kazin doesn't care about the truth. He just wants to "Win the argument".
@dawning: Well yeah, but you have to discern if it's town lurker or a scum who coasts. There's a very slim chance that all the lurkers are scum.
scum tend to pick off the actives/townreads at Night, don't see why we should help them.
besides, the more someone talks, the easier it will be for us to figure them out later.
do we want to repeat the info-prying cycle when we run out of actives? I think not.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
If survival wins, you're not playing against your wincon to help us. So are you saying survival isn't a wincon? Or that you're going to ignore that wincon entirely, and play poorly if survival is your only viable wincon? I don't believe that you would actually do that - and if you did try, I think you'd just get modkilled.
Oh, I'm totally not playing to my lame win condition. Or at least, I'm trying not to, really really hard. Because survival is 1) Boring and 2) Almost completely dependent on others' actions. But I'm also a competitive person. But I'm also a person who prefers to compete against others than to compete towards arbitrary role goals. So...yeah. Feeling a little torn, a little miffed, hard to excuse actually implementing good play because my role punishes me for good play.
We could lynch Azreal, but I think there is no problem letting him live for the time being.
@Azreal I do have on question for you though. When do you "Steal the soul" of your victim.
At night and upon hammer? Or is this an order of operations question that I have to actually PM the mod about and expend effort upon? Because that sounds annoying.
With that answer it does become an order of operations question. Sorry.
Mostly I want to know when it resolves. Before or after kills in the night.
This guy is definatley planning on doing something to az toNight.
don't see why scum would want to do anything to a neutral. even if they planned that, there's no need to worry since Azrael isn't town. bad reasoning here.
With that answer it does become an order of operations question. Sorry.
Mostly I want to know when it resolves. Before or after kills in the night.
This guy is definatley planning on doing something to az toNight.
don't see why scum would want to do anything to a neutral. even if they planned that, there's no need to worry since Azrael isn't town. bad reasoning here.
is this proof that rodemy is town since he's not in a scum mindset or...
this is more proof that he is not town.
since when do scum kill neutrals over town? town won't think like that, that's why we lynch neutrals.
You need a field trip into my brain. Trust me, i'm weird.
I know I've been doing a lot of lurking but I honestly don't see why anyone is necessarily reading that as scummy?
Because there is actual hunting going on and you are (without reason) either not paying attention or reading and not actively chiming in.
As scum, you have the entire game already figured out. you know who is scum and who is town. So lurking is a way to hide behind the multitude of posts. LIKELY there is scum in lurkers (see haiku. Ruma and D-V lurked and in the end it was their downfall)
Speaking of, now that that game is over. Please tell me how my scum meta is "Lurking" and "Not pushing scumleans" ._.
Tom - the weather quirk and his willing to examine all the available evidence reads townie to me.
Grapefruit maybe? I know I voted for him originally but he comes across as being pretty solvey.
Kami, has very detailed answers for their suspicions and explains it very clearly.
I confess, not knowing anyone here; definitely has me at a great disadvantage.
It's not KNOWING people. it's actually reading what they are saying. But your town reads are.. Meh.
@Nancy: Haven't seen a post from you since page 2 the thread. Starting to wonder if you're still with us, or just watching? There's a lot of unanswered questions that have been lobbed your way. I know RL is a thing, but care to toss us some answers so we can alleviate some suspicion levied your direction?
I would love to; I'm having trouble following this game tbh. I'm used to playing games with 2-4 deaths (1-2 lynches and 1-2 NKs) every 72 hours. I'm just very confused. *sigh*
I confess; I have never ever liked D1 and can't wait for D2; when I actually feel I actually have some real knowledge to work with.
I feel like this is MOST of mafia players. Everyone wants to get that first flip and start figuring things out.
town
Shadow - I'm familiar with that waffly paranoia and restrain on voting me. scum usually just vote without the unnecessary stress.
Rhand - he didn't jump on my claim, and I'd imagine wasting town's lynch on protective is too good to pass.
townlean
Nobue!DV (refer to this slot as replacement or the same person?)
Terry
Nancy
Kazin
Kamikaze
Archmage
I'm open to reason. tell me how it fits in a town!Rodemy perspective?
explain. elaborate. say what you mean, or don't say it. the same applies to anyone.
if I'm hard to understand, I should clarify or get lynched. if you're hard to understand, you should clarify or get lynched. if someone is hard to understand, they should clarify or get lynched. even Rodemy should appear to clarify his voting a neutral instead of pursuing scumleans, or he should get lynched.
this seems like a great way to crash a ship as near to the beginning of the journey as possible
You're now pushing rodemy for scumhunting and not thinking like scum.
please answer my question.
I'm pushing Rodemy for not pushing his scumleans, and parking on a neutral while looking busy(anything that wasn't his scumleans), then saying scum wants to kill a neutral so we should lynch them first - AKA let's protect the neutral from scum so we can lynch him instead. I don't see the town sense here.
that post I pulled out is more of a support to my original case of #58. was checking his ISO.
rodemy has never made sense
You keep explaining why he's different from your scummy ass and that makes him scum for [reasons don't exist]
if he never made sense there's no downside to lynching him. we get an unreadable obstacle out of the way.
at least I'm explaining, be grateful. and where was I talking about him vs me?
So, hey, you keep pushing me for not pushing my scumleans and such, but you are pushing me only. What about your other scumleans? You keep pushing me and it's.. frustratingly funny. I know it's because i was gone for a bit, but still, kudos to commitment.
I feel like you are still scum at this part of the game.
I almost want to say the entire scum team is below Rhand.
One wolf in the top posters. I mean... Azreal is 6th highest. Our Neutral.
Cause we have Shadow Tom ME DBS in descending order, then running up the rear with almost half the posts of these four is Kamikaze. Then everyone else. We got lurkers a plenty. OH MAN.
Now that ZE is finally over, I submit the guaranteed MTGS patented lynch strategy. Lynch lurkers. Specifically lynch replacements.
did you just volunteer to be the lynch, oh self-replacement? <3
A few of rhands posts have caught my eye. Flavor Clearing, the "How do you know how many nuets are in the game" Posts to be specific. I feel like they are coming from left field (read: My line of thinking) and i don't remember rhand ever actually playing like that before as town. If Rhand is scum, shadow is probably scum as well as DBS, and like.. it can't be that easy?
But can we start with DBS? Because that gal.. is totes scum.
with everything said, I've gathered that DV and Rodemy are considered antitown players and are being kept alive with kiddy gloves. there won't be a loss if either one was lynched. hence, as easy mislynch targets, I would rather focus elsewhere, for now
Excuse me while I sit in the shade thrown my way.
Rodemy has posted a total of 11 times and has been V/LA. He has less posts than our mod by 3. How do you have any read on him what so ever, when only like half of those posts are actual content?
I find myself agreeing with D-V on this. You pushed me for like, 10 pages for the same thing. This is why i think you are scum. Your read on me didn't change AT ALL for 10. ****in. Pages. When other people had been posting and other things had happened, you insisted i was scum. It feels like a lot of effort towards a mislynch and you wanted to hold onto me specifically because (you think i'm cute) i wanted to lynch AZ after his crazy claim.
Did you read what you just said? Let me recap. You said:
"I'd rather lynch a town person who's participating" than "lynching a lurker that could be either town or scum."
So you just basically said that you would rather Lynch town than a shot at scum.
I know fully well what I said.
I'll give you two examples to illustrate my point and then you can tell me if you understood or not.
Example 1: We lynch Archmage Eternal today. He flips whatever. We go into tomorrow with the same amount of information as today and a dead town who was actually helping.
Example 2: We lynch someone like DV or dawning and they flip town. Next day we can analyse the way people on the wagon, the pushes and the every interaction that player had.
I tend to believe mafia is a game of information where a team wins through better play and games aren't decided by randomness. My preference is to gain as much info as possible in the early days to use it in the later days when it's more important to lynch correctly than to get info.
So, your 2 examples mean nothing. You can anazlyze a town AE wagon just as well as a DV or dawning wagon.
HOLY ***** I CAUGHT UP!..
Hey, lets lynch Dawning.
Am i voting dawning? I can't remember.
vote dawningbluesky
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Thank you for choosing
Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I look out at the sea. What once was tranquility is now chaos. The sea not only reflects the sky today. it also reflects the chaos on my ship. I look to my Son. A mothers love screams in my head to protect him. But my responsibility tells me to not focus on one, but the entire ship, as mutinous and dogged they be.
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Thank you for choosing
Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
@Rodemy
if you don't understand context... me arguing about you for 10 pages was questioning Grape's defense, not you. (@Grape this is why you shouldn't interrupt questioning)
I find you opportunistic and mudflingy, also that you still aren't sourcing reads from you own interactions, but from others. I also don't like that it is you pushing my proposed dichotomy by voting me.
as such, I would rather focus on someone else Vote:Nancy Drew
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Can you please explain the whole "sourcing reads" bit? I was absent for the first.. lets say 7 pages of the game and had to play catchup, so all i have are other peoples interactions? What are you trying to say with that comment?
Also it's not about the context. You were specifically saying how i was scum. Even if it was questioning Grapes defense, you were painting me super scummy.
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Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
Can you please explain the whole "sourcing reads" bit? I was absent for the first.. lets say 7 pages of the game and had to play catchup, so all i have are other peoples interactions? What are you trying to say with that comment?
Also it's not about the context. You were specifically saying how i was scum. Even if it was questioning Grapes defense, you were painting me super scummy.
you aren't voting for personal engagement with a suspect, though you observe some things you don't like. I voted you for #58, but wanted to hear you out (and was diverted). Archmage wanted you lynched right away. there is a difference. try to get your own reads, don't lynch someone based off impersonal interaction. the issue I have with you is wanting to lynch me off my interaction with someone else.
I was stating the facts when arguing with Grapes - your #58 was bad and you ignored my vote - you being super scummy is a result of your own actions. Grapes overdefended you, and I had to get my point across, so you can't blame me for staying on the subject for 10 pages. my stance on you stays. I've dealt with you as a topic enough for this phase though, so I will refrain from attempting to sort you out.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Can you please explain the whole "sourcing reads" bit? I was absent for the first.. lets say 7 pages of the game and had to play catchup, so all i have are other peoples interactions? What are you trying to say with that comment?
Also it's not about the context. You were specifically saying how i was scum. Even if it was questioning Grapes defense, you were painting me super scummy.
you aren't voting for personal engagement with a suspect, though you observe some things you don't like. I voted you for #58, but wanted to hear you out (and was diverted). Archmage wanted you lynched right away. there is a difference. try to get your own reads, don't lynch someone based off impersonal interaction. the issue I have with you is wanting to lynch me off my interaction with someone else.
I was stating the facts when arguing with Grapes - your #58 was bad and you ignored my vote - you being super scummy is a result of your own actions. Grapes overdefended you, and I had to get my point across, so you can't blame me for staying on the subject for 10 pages. my stance on you stays. I've dealt with you as a topic enough for this phase though, so I will refrain from attempting to sort you out.
Except that's how you play the game. You figurr things out based on not only personal interactions, but interactions with other people.
I don't understand how you think my read of you is invalid because i got it from other interactions.
You painted me scum for really dumb reasons and then continued to do so while i was away. It wasn't a bad vote. It wasn't the only vote.
, but he did claim anti town so again, don't see a problem with it and i don't like how you are saying anyonr who wants to lynch him d1 is scum.
Grapes sees me as town. Okay. He defended me. Okay. I will look into him if you are town. But right now, i am not the only one seeing you as scum. You still think i am scum, not becauase my vote was bad. As you repeated MULTIPLE times, i am scum because i had scumleans and wanted to lynch the antitown nuet.
You keep forgetting to add that part to your argument. (Anti-town)
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"We lynch Archmage Eternal today. He flips whatever. We go into tomorrow with the same amount of information as today and a dead town who was actually helping. "
Also, cool slip there, scum.
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"We lynch Archmage Eternal today. He flips whatever. We go into tomorrow with the same amount of information as today and a dead town who was actually helping. "
Also, cool slip there, scum.
Dead town as in the person who scum will kill at night.
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@Rodemy
if you don't understand context... me arguing about you for 10 pages was questioning Grape's defense, not you. (@Grape this is why you shouldn't interrupt questioning)
I find you opportunistic and mudflingy, also that you still aren't sourcing reads from you own interactions, but from others. I also don't like that it is you pushing my proposed dichotomy by voting me.
as such, I would rather focus on someone else Vote:Nancy Drew
wind faltering and weakly starting to blow elsewhere, rather than just changing directions.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
But in that example, we lynch scum, why are you making excuses to not lynch AE?
Tell me what about him screams town to you?
I'm starting to think you are intentionally acting like this.
I've already laid out my arguments. That's the whole problem. Nothing screams town or scum about AE. If we lynch him we get almost 0 info. If we lynch someone active we can analyse their posts and make better informed decisions tomorrow.
Now that the deadline is coming I'm ok with lynching almost anyone. I hate no lynches more than anything.
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But in that example, we lynch scum, why are you making excuses to not lynch AE?
Tell me what about him screams town to you?
I'm starting to think you are intentionally acting like this.
I've already laid out my arguments. That's the whole problem. Nothing screams town or scum about AE. If we lynch him we get almost 0 info. If we lynch someone active we can analyse their posts and make better informed decisions tomorrow.
Now that the deadline is coming I'm ok with lynching almost anyone. I hate no lynches more than anything.
You are making an argument bssed off the fact AE comes across neither town or scum, yet surmise that he is gonna flip town and we will get nothing.
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Okay so, heres the earth I legitimately believe Nancy is our best lynch option. Behaviorally she’s been scummy when she has been here, and I don’t think we have a categorically better lynch within the more active players. I would be fine with Dawning if that’s our other option (though she’s voting for Nancy so that could be helpful?), but I don’t think DV is the right lynch for today. And I think we need to build up a wagon sooner than later for a time buffer for a claim.
@DBS your argument that town are more likely to have one narrative and scum less likely is not something I agree with at all. And focusing someone for "good" play (scum would have wide focus to try and appear townie) seems counter productive. I agree DV's switch was eyebrow raising, but the supplemental wide focus reasoning is not something I can get behind.
Do you understand English?
Kamikaze and Kazin's views on me are newb town.
What is the subject of this sentence?
The subject of the sentence is Kamikaze and Kazin's VIEWS.
Not Kamikaze and Kazin as the subjects, but the views.
Remember how he didn't understand why I didn't want to reveal my question to Azreal before he answered my question?
Checked that out, he definitely has more games then not.
God that fishing early looks really bad then and the perma tunnel on me.
Not his best work either way
I answered the question pretty quickly.
Az
Kazin – Slip cleared
DBS
Kami
DV/nobue
Tom
Grape
AE
Shrug:
Vez - Gonna chalk up the questionable stuff to play-style until I reread him.
Rhand – No neg pings from record, so lean-town.
Nancy – too many nervous, fish out of water tells to get a clear read
Scum:
JoeTerry
Shadow
Rodemy
Seems about right.
I do have a vote up actually: It's on D_V/Nobue and for all the reasons I'd stated in the past. These ones:
@Shadow: Yeah, I am willing to do that. I am still going to be looking at others, and I do have other leans for various reasons. I'm currently looking into back-reading a few posts. I think we have a witch hunt on for DBS, which is why I haven't hopped on that wagon. As I said, You and Tom are in my top leans, and KamikazeArchon I am still sitting a fence on... but I know that part of that is that I know him offline and am always suspicious of him because I know he's good at masking his scum-tendencies when he is playing one. The problem I have there is that he tends to have the same method of play whether it's scum or town, and that has always been one of his strengths... and a town detriment.
So my list currently sits like this. I don't really see a reason to hold it back any more, whereas originally I thought it might be good to get a scum member or two to play along and learn about them by not calling them out early.
D_V: Scum for all the reasons I've stated: Plus the continued posts since then.
Nancy: Scum lean: Nancy is still not responding at a level I'd like and I'm not sure how to feel about that. Her answer to my comment was almost a week ago made sense, but doesn't really help me form a great bit of idea on them. I'm also new to the site and play style, but I have been trying to be active.
Rodemy: Scum lean: Mostly how I got here is related to an entry in a few seconds... but the rivalry there has me suspicious and watching. The other reason is that a lot of people who I feel like-minded to seem to be looking his way, plus his "always behind" posting feels like a smokescreen.
Azrael: Neutral/Scum Lean: Either his claim of neutral is correct, or it was a great scum-play out of the gate. I wanted to hold this evaluation back to see how he handled the Neutral claim being mostly accepted, even if the neutral bit itself provokes some ire and interest in the lynch department.
Terry: Null. I dunno why but his posts are just unmemorable and easily overlooked (by me). It's kept me from forming a strong read on him, so all the suspicion I have on him comes from others' points of view. I've back-read his posts and they still just feel middle-road.
Rhand: Null. For every town-helping behavior I see, I also see a scum one. I know he's absent for a couple more days for work stuff, but it still feels it. And while I like his support in the D_V vote I'm not the biggest fan of how he got there in that a big portion is that he just didn't like D_V's posts.
KamikazeArchon: Middling/slight Town lean - Details above
Archmage Eternal: Town Lean - Archmage has always been quick to jump on good points, answer in a way that feels natural, presented himself in a way that feels very townie focused.
Grapefruit: Town-Lean - Almost every action has felt townie to me so far. In his responses and the way he's been targeted, he has answered in what feels like an explanatory manner as opposed to a defensive one.
Vezok: Town-Lean - Most posts I have seen from him are at a delay, and I think that's the time zone involved: but it also feels like most posts are generally fact-finding and not laced with shading. Feels more like someone trying to find the "gotcha" moment and getting them to trip over their words.
Dawning: Town-Lean - A variety of reasons including a thorough and in depth response to the things that have targeted her, some of the conversations I've watched her have with others, some of the conversations others have had about her, and the conversations with me all factored in. Plus that claim feels genuine to me. Oh... and a small factor, but still there: D_V's focused hounding of her.
Tom: Town - Fairly sure that most of this has been from a town perspective. It's been helpful and concise and when the metaphors were too cryptic he wasn't afraid to break the gimmick a bit to keep focus on the scum-like people.
Shadow: Town - The way you push and the questions you use don't scream "who are you" so much as draw out answers that tell that in a unique way. I feel that a lot of your question line has given me insight to work with on the way players are reacting and playing things out. For someone who plays by reading other people: this pleases me greatly and falls in the category of people trying to help.
Uhhh
What?
The hypocrisy is killing me.
*shrug* Basically.
Don't worry, if you send me a zillion bucks, I'll consider changing my vote from scum to town.
At this point I just find playing with players like Kazin and Kamikaze frustrating beyond belief.
Kazins reads read made up.
Kamikaze I'm starting to doubt. Why because of that call with the "Thinks I'm town slip". I just don't see scum making that play, maybe I'm going to meta. But do scum really read the game that closely? Even though he is wrong, still the effort.
Its just so flippant. There is no order. Half the reads contradict themselves.
Maybe Tom is goading me to on this Kamikaze read. The moment Tom pressured Kamikaze I felt vindicated. This isn't a good spot to be.
All I see with that Kazin post is scum, and yet I feel like I have to read him as town. IDK what to do.
AE is the 6th Town read with 10 total posts. Half of which aren't even real posts. So 5 posts.
Five.
But meanwhile scum reads one player who actually has a reason to be gone.
When I come back I'm probabally not going to interact with Kazin again. You guys can baby sit or attempt to coach him. But I'm done. I may or may not interact with Kamikaze. I don't know, I need to just step back. Take a chill pill. But this isn't fun. It isn't fun to argue with people that repeat the same ***** over and over again.
Kazin refuses to back this claim up. It really makes me want to scream. I really can't express how much fun it sucks out when this is allowed to happen.
Kazin doesn't care about the truth. He just wants to "Win the argument".
I didn't even realise he was asking me this. Well, Dawning, kamikaze and much father than this two shadow/rhand.
There's a big chance some of the lurkers are actually scum, but I can't base that read on anything.
Can you share with the class? I seriously don't know what you are talking about.
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he is saying that only scum tunnel, aka have only one narrative. from Zero Escape and my experience, it is usually town who tunnel. town don't have the information to avoid tunnels, they can only work off what they have. not sure what you mean by wide focus, but having a better view of things usually denotes inside information - it shows that you aren't working with information you've gleaned, since you don't need it.
it's rare to find townies who can avoid tunnels or work with mass reads, since that drains their energy or solving ability.
1. if newb town tend to approach you that way, why do you say that Kamikaze is scum? also, why isn't Nancy reacting to you in that 'newb town' way?
2. Kamikaze and Kazin are equally experienced, if they come from the same background. why do you say Kazin is so convincingly town? also, iirc you said he isn't confirmed town and it was ridiculous to flavor-clear him.
3. you weren't caught redhanded, but that duration in D1 had Shadow on your tail to a lynchable point. the gist of this topic though, I know how your scumgame is like, and it lacks the tunneling and waffling that town would have - becoming rather opportunistic more than gamesolving.
this feels like AtE.
you think so. isn't it common knowledge that coasting is a scum tactic?
Be grateful, always."
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I read the flavor and didn't think this was a possibility, but you are right.
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besides, the more someone talks, the easier it will be for us to figure them out later.
do we want to repeat the info-prying cycle when we run out of actives? I think not.
Be grateful, always."
AND OH BOY WAS HE CORRRECT
But AZ's ability effects scum too?
You need a field trip into my brain. Trust me, i'm weird.
Because there is actual hunting going on and you are (without reason) either not paying attention or reading and not actively chiming in.
As scum, you have the entire game already figured out. you know who is scum and who is town. So lurking is a way to hide behind the multitude of posts. LIKELY there is scum in lurkers (see haiku. Ruma and D-V lurked and in the end it was their downfall)
Speaking of, now that that game is over. Please tell me how my scum meta is "Lurking" and "Not pushing scumleans" ._.
It's not KNOWING people. it's actually reading what they are saying. But your town reads are.. Meh.
I feel like this is MOST of mafia players. Everyone wants to get that first flip and start figuring things out.
THIS feels town.
So, hey, you keep pushing me for not pushing my scumleans and such, but you are pushing me only. What about your other scumleans? You keep pushing me and it's.. frustratingly funny. I know it's because i was gone for a bit, but still, kudos to commitment.
I feel like you are still scum at this part of the game.
did you just volunteer to be the lynch, oh self-replacement? <3
A few of rhands posts have caught my eye. Flavor Clearing, the "How do you know how many nuets are in the game" Posts to be specific. I feel like they are coming from left field (read: My line of thinking) and i don't remember rhand ever actually playing like that before as town. If Rhand is scum, shadow is probably scum as well as DBS, and like.. it can't be that easy?
But can we start with DBS? Because that gal.. is totes scum.
I find myself agreeing with D-V on this. You pushed me for like, 10 pages for the same thing. This is why i think you are scum. Your read on me didn't change AT ALL for 10. ****in. Pages. When other people had been posting and other things had happened, you insisted i was scum. It feels like a lot of effort towards a mislynch and you wanted to hold onto me specifically because (you think i'm cute) i wanted to lynch AZ after his crazy claim.
So, your 2 examples mean nothing. You can anazlyze a town AE wagon just as well as a DV or dawning wagon.
HOLY ***** I CAUGHT UP!..
Hey, lets lynch Dawning.
Am i voting dawning? I can't remember.
vote dawningbluesky
Rodemy (1): Archmage Eternal
Nancy Drew 39 (2): shadowlancerx, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
D_V (4): KamikazeArchon, Rhand, Kazin Drake, dawningbluesky
dawningbluesky (4): vezokpiraka, tomsloger, Rodemy, D_V
shadowlancerx (1): Azrael
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
The deadline expires on February 14th at 0000 hours EST.
-
Additional note: Bur will be posting votecounts for me when I am unable to, as my weekends have been busier than anticipated as of late.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
The ocean seemed calm, until...
"AVAST, YE KRAKEN!"
The Kraken?!? In these waters?!? Surely...wait, was that the shadow of a tentacle?
You're uncertain, but you're anxious.
A deep panic grips the ship.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I look out at the sea. What once was tranquility is now chaos. The sea not only reflects the sky today. it also reflects the chaos on my ship. I look to my Son. A mothers love screams in my head to protect him. But my responsibility tells me to not focus on one, but the entire ship, as mutinous and dogged they be.
if you don't understand context... me arguing about you for 10 pages was questioning Grape's defense, not you. (@Grape this is why you shouldn't interrupt questioning)
I find you opportunistic and mudflingy, also that you still aren't sourcing reads from you own interactions, but from others. I also don't like that it is you pushing my proposed dichotomy by voting me.
as such, I would rather focus on someone else
Vote:Nancy Drew
Be grateful, always."
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Also it's not about the context. You were specifically saying how i was scum. Even if it was questioning Grapes defense, you were painting me super scummy.
Yeah, but you can analyse interactions between DV and other players while you can't do that with AE.
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I was stating the facts when arguing with Grapes - your #58 was bad and you ignored my vote - you being super scummy is a result of your own actions. Grapes overdefended you, and I had to get my point across, so you can't blame me for staying on the subject for 10 pages. my stance on you stays. I've dealt with you as a topic enough for this phase though, so I will refrain from attempting to sort you out.
Be grateful, always."
Be grateful, always."
Except that's how you play the game. You figurr things out based on not only personal interactions, but interactions with other people.
I don't understand how you think my read of you is invalid because i got it from other interactions.
You painted me scum for really dumb reasons and then continued to do so while i was away. It wasn't a bad vote. It wasn't the only vote.
, but he did claim anti town so again, don't see a problem with it and i don't like how you are saying anyonr who wants to lynch him d1 is scum.
Grapes sees me as town. Okay. He defended me. Okay. I will look into him if you are town. But right now, i am not the only one seeing you as scum. You still think i am scum, not becauase my vote was bad. As you repeated MULTIPLE times, i am scum because i had scumleans and wanted to lynch the antitown nuet.
You keep forgetting to add that part to your argument. (Anti-town)
Also, cool slip there, scum.
Dead town as in the person who scum will kill at night.
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That almost never happens.
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But in that example, we lynch scum, why are you making excuses to not lynch AE?
Tell me what about him screams town to you?
wind faltering and weakly starting to blow elsewhere, rather than just changing directions.
Vote: The Kraken
I have no idea on him at all
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'm starting to think you are intentionally acting like this.
I've already laid out my arguments. That's the whole problem. Nothing screams town or scum about AE. If we lynch him we get almost 0 info. If we lynch someone active we can analyse their posts and make better informed decisions tomorrow.
Now that the deadline is coming I'm ok with lynching almost anyone. I hate no lynches more than anything.
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You are making an argument bssed off the fact AE comes across neither town or scum, yet surmise that he is gonna flip town and we will get nothing.
heres the earthI legitimately believe Nancy is our best lynch option. Behaviorally she’s been scummy when she has been here, and I don’t think we have a categorically better lynch within the more active players. I would be fine with Dawning if that’s our other option (though she’s voting for Nancy so that could be helpful?), but I don’t think DV is the right lynch for today. And I think we need to build up a wagon sooner than later for a time buffer for a claim.