@GJ: Are you doing some stupid gambit like osierb claims, or did osierb actually slip?
If it'sa gambit stop it now, because it's about as useful as posting random letters.
I would say it's more useful tbd your vote, but fine. He didn't send me anything. Reactions ere more useful than an rvs vote though.
I actually agree with this. Just let me get this straight though, you were just trolling for reactions right? Obi didn't actually say what you said he did right? I approve of trolling for reactions.
I don't have any issues with Terry's cellblock comment. Inattentiveness to rules has often struck me as a townslip more than it does scum not needing to care about mechanics.
While my gut told me that Terry's "Dear Cyan" response was the scummiest act in this game (disingenuous, somewhat OMGUS-ish, "deep down inside" reads like an over-explanation/appeal to emotion), after a few hours away from it, I could see that response being genuine frustration. Sort of in an "oh god, here we go again" manner while attempting to keep the peace.
But @Terry, of course he read what it was in response to.
The reason I put "Dear Cyan", was because I'm trying to be cordial with him because there is a very real chance this spirals into a unproductive death match between me and Cyan (unless Cyan is scum). It's already looking like that's where this is headed. I doubted he actually read what I was responding to because him calling it complete and utter garbage made no sense and I wasn't the only one who was confused by that (see Post #49).
I don't have any issues with Terry's cellblock comment. Inattentiveness to rules has often struck me as a townslip more than it does scum not needing to care about mechanics.
While my gut told me that Terry's "Dear Cyan" response was the scummiest act in this game (disingenuous, somewhat OMGUS-ish, "deep down inside" reads like an over-explanation/appeal to emotion), after a few hours away from it, I could see that response being genuine frustration. Sort of in an "oh god, here we go again" manner while attempting to keep the peace.
But @Terry, of course he read what it was in response to.
The reason I put "Dear Cyan", was because I'm trying to be cordial with him because there is a very real chance this spirals into a unproductive death match between me and Cyan (unless Cyan is scum). It's already looking like that's where this is headed. I doubted he actually read what I was responding to because him calling it complete and utter garbage made no sense and I wasn't the only one who was confused by that (see Post #49).
Sounds like you've played enough with Cyan and can vouch his town meta is one of a blind tunneler, is that correct?
Could you clarify what you expect from scum Cyan on the other hand? How much does it differ from his town persona?
9: Cyan votes Vezo for realsies. Cyan skipped RVS entirely and voted for realsies on Vezo for what read like a very standard RVS post to me. I've only played against Cyan as town and he was overly aggressive. I have no idea what his scum game is like. @Anyone have a link?
10: KJ calls Cyan on it
11: Cyan GIFs KJ back. I really hate GIFs
12: Cyan grumbles about photo linking. Maybe that's a sign it should be avoided.
13: Grape votes Cyan "to avoid being pocketed". Not a great RVS joke, but I still think it was RVS
14: KJ, asks about the not great joke.
15: KJ, again asks about Cyan's for realsies vote
16: I RVS vote Cyan
17-18: Arch naked votes me. I assume its RVS. @ARCH: Was that naked vote an RVS vote?
19: Cyan responded to KJ by saying that he felt Vezo sounded like he was trying too hard and that he didn't remember Grapefruit. It's a good response, but I don't necessarily agree with it.
20: Vezo responds to Cyan's vote, with a "Fair Enough" and a good explanation. Doesn't seem over defense or anything, but then votes me for voting Cyan. I don't quite follow why he jumped on me for my vote on Cyan.
21: Osi kind of gets the same "huh?" reaction I just had to #20 and actually votes Vezo for it. Again, it's bit aggressive, but I kind of like the pressure.
22: VC with Cyan, Vezo and me tied at 2 votes a piece. I think we are officially out of RVS, tough beans for Gentleman Johnny, Vaimes, and ganderin_dan who haven't posted at this point.
23: Arch asks Vezo to clarify their vote on me
24: Vezo says I was buddying him and attacking Cyan (Pssst, it was just an RVS vote).
25: Vaimes comes in and declares no RVS vote, which I think is strangely stubborn at this stage. Also that Cyan is town. Knowing the player type that Cyan is, this makes me really suspicious of Vaimes. It seems like a preemptive strike to keep Cyan from pushing him. @Vaimes: Why is Cyan town?
26: It appears Dan also wanted to abstain from RVS. Kind of parrot's Cyan's vote on me, but does mention that there is some sort of Meta data that suggests Vezo does that as scum, which I would have no idea about since I've never played with them before. Asks Obi to clarify his concerns about Vezo. I'm kind of getting mixed reads on Dan's opinion of Vezo here.
27: I explained my apparently bad RVS joke in regards to Cyan
28: Grape explains his pocketing comment, which I can confirm.
29: Arch questions Vezo's vote on me, implying that it's too early to jump to these conclusions. I was thinking that Arch had been only posting in questions and not really providing any stances on his own, but he does kind of make an opinion when he says he doesn't follow what the problem was with my mindset.
30: Gentleman Johny comes in pretty hard calling Osi a liar, stating that he accidentally posted in their neighbor chat when he was meaning to to post in wolf chat that they were going after Dan or Vezo.
31: KJ responds to that by saying that he's offended he wasn't picked to go after, but that's about it. Not much of a reaction. He then asks Vaimes to clarify on his Cyan read. I think this is the second time KJ has mind melded with me.
32: Osi says GJ is LYING!?
33: Osi says that he felt Vezo was over defensive and I'll agree that it was bit early to jump on me for my first post.
34: Dan asks for more clarification on the GJ Lie and Arch to explain what type of behavior he expects from scum at this stage in the game. So far I'm actually liking Dan's mindset.
35-36: Vaimes posts here basically are cryptic and say nothing. So far I'm not liking Vaimes mindset.
37: Cyan feels the same way about my vote that Vezo does. For crying out load, it was an RVS vote.
38: Grapefruit says there's a dichotomy, I'm assuming he was referring to Osi vs. GJ
39: Arch says he's used to scum lurkers and scum trolls and acknowledges this may be a different meta,
40: Arch Votes Osi, for bold face lying. I find it a bit strange that he immediately sides with GJ and disbelieves Obi
41: Osi claims his two chat posts were greeting GJ (not saying he was going after dan and vezo) and telling me that chat should only be used for analysis if I am town. This is also weird. Why would he simply greet GJ, but then say to me "if you are town" (which he did say)? Anyways, looking back at this post I realize that GJ confirmed with Osi that he was in fact reaction trolling. That part didn't really register with me the first time I read that post. So with the reaction trolling we are only able to glean the following reactions:
-KJ: Indifferent
-Dan: Catious, but curious
-Vaimes: Ignores it
-Cyan: Ignores it
-Grape: Believes its a dichotomy
-Arch: Hook line and sinker
42: Vezo asks GJ to clarify it was a stupid gambit and asks him to stop
43: I respond to Cyan's comment on my RVS vote and I clearly demonstrate that I don't know how the chat part of this game works.
44: Vezo clarifies how the cell blocks with two neighbors work for me, but kind in a patronizing tone.
45: I explain why I didn't get it.
46: Dan points out that GJ go one person and I'm assuming it was Arch. @Dan was that who you were referring to?
47: Cyan votes me for explaining why I misunderstood the chat system. Seems hyper aggressive, but that just goes back to my question in my comments on #9
48: I ask for more explanation from Cyan, which I still haven't gotten. @Cyan: I know you unvoiced me but can you clarify why the Cell Block comment was enough for you to vote me?
49: Arch also asks for clarification on #47
50: Dan explains he has no issue with my cellblock comments, but does have an issue with my use of "Dear". I hope I explained the meta data behind that sufficiently for him because I think Dan is town.
SO what do I take from all that?
I'm liking Dan.
I like GJ's reaction troll because I'm a sucker for gambits.
Osi seemed to react in a town way to it, but I'm a little bit weirded out that he went right into... "If you are town" with me in our chat.
I'm not liking Vaimes so far.
Arch has me a bit concerned because of his jump on Osi, but I also think he may be adjusting to a new meta.
Cyan seems aggressive and I just need to hear some one tell me about his scum Meta before I can make use of that piece of info because I've seen him very aggressive as town.
Everyone else hasn't really pushed me one way or another.
I don't have any issues with Terry's cellblock comment. Inattentiveness to rules has often struck me as a townslip more than it does scum not needing to care about mechanics.
While my gut told me that Terry's "Dear Cyan" response was the scummiest act in this game (disingenuous, somewhat OMGUS-ish, "deep down inside" reads like an over-explanation/appeal to emotion), after a few hours away from it, I could see that response being genuine frustration. Sort of in an "oh god, here we go again" manner while attempting to keep the peace.
But @Terry, of course he read what it was in response to.
The reason I put "Dear Cyan", was because I'm trying to be cordial with him because there is a very real chance this spirals into a unproductive death match between me and Cyan (unless Cyan is scum). It's already looking like that's where this is headed. I doubted he actually read what I was responding to because him calling it complete and utter garbage made no sense and I wasn't the only one who was confused by that (see Post #49).
Sounds like you've played enough with Cyan and can vouch his town meta is one of a blind tunneler, is that correct?
Could you clarify what you expect from scum Cyan on the other hand? How much does it differ from his town persona?
I actually have not played with him being scum, so I actually asked other people for some input on that. It is very possible he is aggressive town.
Big post there. I'll just address parts of it; if you want my attention on anything else say it.
The vote on you was indeed RVS.
I immediately voted Osi because I didn't see a reason not to take GJ's accusation at face value, and that serious accusation never comes from scum. I don't understand how you find this strange and I'd like you to elaborate. In fact--
"-KJ: Indifferent
-Dan: Catious, but curious
-Vaimes: Ignores it
-Cyan: Ignores it
-Grape: Believes its a dichotomy
-Arch: Hook line and sinker"
Elaborate on all of this. Stating the factual reactions does not make your opinion on them clear.
-----
@ #59: Thanks for the answer. "(unless Cyan is scum)" sounded to me like you expected his scum meta to be something specific. Why did you mean by that then?
I think Osie's reaction to this is a townie reaction. Unless things change I'm not remotely interested in lynching Osie today. I think Terry is up every wrong tree (the vaimes vote is ???) but this feels like town!Terry.
I don't think that Gambit is AI for GJ.
I'm a little torn on Arc. I like most of 60 (him trying to get more out of terry and calling him on presenting facts as reads) but I don't love his insta clear of GJ. It's a weird clear to make of this thing would draw instant and unyielding pressure, and he did it, so therefore he must be town. It's a bit too easy and enough for me to draw a possible soft connection between the two of them. Probably too blatant for scum buddies and I have no real reason to think they are scum, just felt a bit protective. Going back to his Terry interaction for a second completely agree that Terry's stance on Cyan reads like he has info on Cyan's game from both sides of the coin not just one.
Cyan feels vaguely townie to me. That sort of exasperation feels like town!Cyan not wanting to have to defend/clear himself. Not a strong read, just soft tonal feels.
You misunderstood me, Grapefruit. I *had* GJ cleared because I don't think scum would push that accusation and stick by it. If he did it as scum, he would either lynch town and be lock scum as a consequence, or he'd be lynching his scumbuddy D1 (and in that case, we're still lynching scum by voting Osie) -- further, it would also wield suspicion later on when he wasn't nightkilled for whatever reason when he should be lock town. At either case, it's a very poor move from scum for little benefit.
He says now it's a reaction test, so he's not lock town anymore. If anything I see more scum intent from it than a town one, specially with how sloppily executed it's been, both from lack of follow-up and lack of setup with Osie for a more convincing test; not to mention the quality of the test itself is questionable with what I stated in the above paragraph -- any reasonable person would immediately favor GJ (and I'm deeply confused why I'm the only one who reacted that way, if memory serves) so there's not much room for testing there in the first place.
Which is why I'm prodding both Terry and GJ on this for an explanation of their findings, and on the "test" itself. I fail to see any use from it. I'd also throughly enjoy a counter-argument to the first paragraph from just about anyone.
Actually, I should specify, the "scum intent" I mention is just the intent of appearing to be busyworking, like a "Hey, I'm totally doing something productive guys, I was fishing for reactions! That's townie!", when in reality the test serves no purpose as I've said since there should be only one logical conclusion.
Or at least, it should serve no purpose. But it seems not everyone reacted the expected way.
I do acknowledge that four different people reacted differently, though, besides Grapefruit at #38 although that one lacks the conclusion themselves. All of those reactions feel fundamentally wrong on their approach (#31, #34, #35, and the absence of one at #37). I'm choosing to ignore reactions after Osieb outs it as a lie, since it muddies things a bit if, say, Osieb/GJ is TvT for example.
KJ's "slighty intrigued that it happened" points to no direction or conclusion. Despite being "intrigued", whatever that entails, he asks no question on the matter, instead being more curious on questioning a townread from a completely different player (I don't mind the question itself, but it feels like they could've spent more attention on the first topic as well).
Gan brings up character limit, implying disbelief, when at the end of the day it's still a Osie vs GJ, each's word against the other. A meaningless point to address, and unreliable evidence in such. --Of course, I could just be misunderstanding his post and Gan is actually asking wether he sent a private forum message or a message in the quicktopic. I'm not sure what that would entail.
Vaimes' #35 isn't all that bad, he makes a valid observation: Osieb called out GJ for lying, but despite knowing the accusation was a lie, Osieb didn't infer anything about GJ's alignment, which is another nonsensical reaction. My only problem with Vaimes' #35 is he pretty much does the same thing he calls out Osieb for by not inferring anything himself about either of them. I, at the time, chose to interpret it as an accusation.
Cyan just ignores it. On purpose I imagine, I don't see how you could've accidentally missed it. Why?
---
I'll momentarily try to infer their alignments by assuming different scenarios.
If Osieb/GJ = Town/Town, I believe scum would be cautious with their reactions, to avoid falling themselves into a possible trap, since they know it's a test. KJ's and Gan's (and Vaimes'?) reactions seem to fit that profile by acknowledging the accusation but not taking a stance.
If Osieb/GJ = Scum/Town, I believe scum would act similarly. Maybe try to soft-distance in an attempt to "pass" the test, which could be what Vaimes' did.
If Osieb/GJ = Town/Scum, I think they just ignore the whole thing altogether. It's easier to not get involved and let your buddy do your thing. This would be Cyan. Though if you did get involved you'd make your reaction open-ended enough that GJ could "analyse" it and distance each other, so it could apply to the others.
If Osieb/GJ = Scum/Scum, first: lol. Second: I think you just ignore it. (Cyan)
That's enough of inferring, I think.
At the end, I'm left scratching my head at all of you. None of your reactions made any sense, imo. You can't all be scum so some of you must have decent reasonings for your reactions. I don't feel like I can make any reasonable assumption about the reactions individually without comments from all of you.
At the end, I'm left scratching my head at all of you. None of your reactions made any sense, imo. You can't all be scum so some of you must have decent reasonings for your reactions. I don't feel like I can make any reasonable assumption about the reactions individually without comments from all of you.
I wasn't going to OMGUS vote GJ, but the implication in calling it a bold-faced lie was that GJ was acting scummy.
I don't see how Osie's reaction was townie. He lacked the very conclusion all those people I mentioned did. In the very least he could've called GJ scum for flat out lying about something he knows isn't true-- that would've been more townie. scum!Osie would be aware that he did no such thing, he's being tested, and thus his reaction matters- so scum!Osie would be less likely to do a "No, YOU are scum!", as to avoid coming under scrutinity afterwards. Instead Osieb chooses to call the lie exactly what it is, a lie, and make no effort to concile it with an alignment. Even after (allegedly) being told it was a test, they reveal it as such, instead of playing along. That's more alike what I'd expect the scum reaction to be.
At the end, I'm left scratching my head at all of you. None of your reactions made any sense, imo. You can't all be scum so some of you must have decent reasonings for your reactions. I don't feel like I can make any reasonable assumption about the reactions individually without comments from all of you.
I wasn't going to OMGUS vote GJ, but the implication in calling it a bold-faced lie was that GJ was acting scummy.
It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia - The "Implication"
I don't see how Osie's reaction was townie. He lacked the very conclusion all those people I mentioned did. In the very least he could've called GJ scum for flat out lying about something he knows isn't true-- that would've been more townie. scum!Osie would be aware that he did no such thing, he's being tested, and thus his reaction matters- so scum!Osie would be less likely to do a "No, YOU are scum!", as to avoid coming under scrutinity afterwards. Instead Osieb chooses to call the lie exactly what it is, a lie, and make no effort to concile it with an alignment. Even after (allegedly) being told it was a test, they reveal it as such, instead of playing along. That's more alike what I'd expect the scum reaction to be.
I avoid OMGUS-voting people regardless of alignment. I'm not going to vote someone just because they vote me under bad pretense, because that does not inherently mean that they are scum. If GJ was just pushing this avenue without voting me, that would be one thing. But given that wasn't the case, it wasn't correct in my book to vote him.
I think Osie's reaction to this is a townie reaction. Unless things change I'm not remotely interested in lynching Osie today. I think Terry is up every wrong tree (the vaimes vote is ???) but this feels like town!Terry.
I don't think that Gambit is AI for GJ.
I'm a little torn on Arc. I like most of 60 (him trying to get more out of terry and calling him on presenting facts as reads) but I don't love his insta clear of GJ. It's a weird clear to make of this thing would draw instant and unyielding pressure, and he did it, so therefore he must be town. It's a bit too easy and enough for me to draw a possible soft connection between the two of them. Probably too blatant for scum buddies and I have no real reason to think they are scum, just felt a bit protective. Going back to his Terry interaction for a second completely agree that Terry's stance on Cyan reads like he has info on Cyan's game from both sides of the coin not just one.
Cyan feels vaguely townie to me. That sort of exasperation feels like town!Cyan not wanting to have to defend/clear himself. Not a strong read, just soft tonal feels.
1. I agree that Osi's reaction seemed town and now that he explained he did the "If you are town" thing to both of us I feel better.
2. What wrong Trees am I up? You think Vaimes is town? Yeah I guess I can see this as town vaimes because I've seen him mislynhced before, but I've never seen his scum game, so for now a little pressure on him and his Cyan Town-Read will have to do.
3. I just don't think Scum GJ brings that kind of attention to himself right off the bat, but again I'm not playing with a full meta deck. I still would say, no matter who the player is, 8 times out of 10 this type of gambit is meant to catch scum and not earn town credit.
4. I think Arc's most recent posts have me leaning town on him.
5. What does scum Cyan play like?
I don't see how Osie's reaction was townie. He lacked the very conclusion all those people I mentioned did. In the very least he could've called GJ scum for flat out lying about something he knows isn't true-- that would've been more townie. scum!Osie would be aware that he did no such thing, he's being tested, and thus his reaction matters- so scum!Osie would be less likely to do a "No, YOU are scum!", as to avoid coming under scrutinity afterwards. Instead Osieb chooses to call the lie exactly what it is, a lie, and make no effort to concile it with an alignment. Even after (allegedly) being told it was a test, they reveal it as such, instead of playing along. That's more alike what I'd expect the scum reaction to be.
I avoid OMGUS-voting people regardless of alignment. I'm not going to vote someone just because they vote me under bad pretense, because that does not inherently mean that they are scum. If GJ was just pushing this avenue without voting me, that would be one thing. But given that wasn't the case, it wasn't correct in my book to vote him.
I didn't complain about the lack of a vote, I complained about the lack of an accusation, which you just now said was implied. That's the problem with implications, and something people here apparently like doing: If you're not being clear with your thoughts, they're bound to misinterpretation at most, or they're useless at least.
Since you say you did accuse them though... I suppose outing that it's a test does make more sense.
At the end, I'm left scratching my head at all of you. None of your reactions made any sense, imo. You can't all be scum so some of you must have decent reasonings for your reactions. I don't feel like I can make any reasonable assumption about the reactions individually without comments from all of you.
I wasn't going to OMGUS vote GJ, but the implication in calling it a bold-faced lie was that GJ was acting scummy.
It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia - The "Implication"
You have a point that shading him for it wouldn't be the best. But it is not clear that it was necessarily a scum gambit. It could be, though.
Big post there. I'll just address parts of it; if you want my attention on anything else say it.
The vote on you was indeed RVS.
I immediately voted Osi because I didn't see a reason not to take GJ's accusation at face value, and that serious accusation never comes from scum. I don't understand how you find this strange and I'd like you to elaborate. In fact--
"-KJ: Indifferent
-Dan: Catious, but curious
-Vaimes: Ignores it
-Cyan: Ignores it
-Grape: Believes its a dichotomy
-Arch: Hook line and sinker"
Elaborate on all of this. Stating the factual reactions does not make your opinion on them clear.
-----
@ #59: Thanks for the answer. "(unless Cyan is scum)" sounded to me like you expected his scum meta to be something specific. Why did you mean by that then?
I love you shadow, but interesting choice to start this on Christmas weekend.
Vote Osierb. He slipped uber hard. I think he meant to send a message to wolf chat at ended up messaging me. Basically, he implied that Dan or Vezok should be focused today.
If this is true, I am a) mildly offended that I was not on that list and b) slightly intrigued that it happened.
Hey Vaimes, why do you think Cyan is town?
He just kind of blows right by it and ignores it. It indicates that he either knows it's not true already or that he is just waiting to let it play out. It doesn't say a ton for his alignment, but if it does it's probably a scum lean.
I'm not sure what you mean by "Cyan vote." Also, do you care to go into detail as to how the lie is, in fact, a lie?
@GJ In the character-limited memo?
@arc What types of scum behavior would you be expecting at this phase of the game, if not buddying?
He asks for more information. It looks like he is not jumping to conclusions but wanting to learn more and explore what happened. This says town to me.
I love you shadow, but interesting choice to start this on Christmas weekend.
Vote Osierb. He slipped uber hard. I think he meant to send a message to wolf chat at ended up messaging me. Basically, he implied that Dan or Vezok should be focused today.
This is a boldfaced lie.
This is a lie, therefore his alignment is _________ because _________.
It felt like he is just phoning it in and expecting other people to put in the leg work. I may have actually missed this post when summarizing the responses. This seems pretty scummy to me.
Wow a dichotomy in less than 50 posts this is exciting.
Which says to me that he believes it, but waiting to see how it plays out.
You, Arc just naked voted Osi, which is exactly what aggressive scum looking for an easy mislynch would do Day 1 and on top of that, if it is continued as a "dichotomy" scum could get a second mislynch out of it if it was T v T. That being said, I think you're play has been town and in the long run maybe we don't learn a ton from GJ's gambit, but for me I will take out of it that I think GJ's town trying to generate reactions and glean reads from those reactions which is a very town thing to do.
"The Implication Game" was a great movie, only second to "Unexplained Readslists" -- that one's a classic. It's like I'm on the same mafia forum as before!
If you could do more than just list them that'd be A+. Quality > quantity, so just elaborate on the ones you have more depth to / feel more strongly.
Unvote
Anybody else catching up, please reply to #68.
Still waiting on that analysis, Terry/GJ. I did my part, only fair you do yours.
"The Implication Game" was a great movie, only second to "Unexplained Readslists" -- that one's a classic. It's like I'm on the same mafia forum as before!
If you could do more than just list them that'd be A+. Quality > quantity, so just elaborate on the ones you have more depth to / feel more strongly.
Unvote
Anybody else catching up, please reply to #68.
Still waiting on that analysis, Terry/GJ. I did my part, only fair you do yours.
@Terry I don't think Vaimes has done anything AI and while wagons are nice you implied this was a for real's vote. Which doesn't seem justified. Also you're wasting energy aruging/playing nice Cyan for no apparent reason. Which is understandable given Mistborn but also probably a worse tactic than just trying to ignore him and letting him be himself now that you have an idea of his town meta.
I'm not completely informed by meta but I think that GJs gambit is completely NAI for him. It gives a lot to dig into which is town plus, but it created a lot of reactions to a nothing which makes them less valuable.
I don't know scum Cyan, but generally peoples personality shines through either way.
@Arc I did misunderstand your point. As for your new posts why are you framing the reactions in terms of Osie and GJs alignments? Also I general disagree that not reacting to it before elaboration is a scummy look. Cyan doesn't necessarily fit this archetype but a town tend to be more cautious and wait for more information before taking a stand while scum are more likely to push a conclusion. Or completely avoid it which is what Cyan did but given the compressed timeline and circumstances and the jig being up before he followed up I have a hard time reaching a conclusion about him.
Upon further reflection, I don't believe that Terry would bother to make an RVS vote immediately after I made a real vote on someone. I think he was just using that as an excuse. Vote Terry
Upon further reflection, I don't believe that Terry would bother to make an RVS vote immediately after I made a real vote on someone. I think he was just using that as an excuse. Vote Terry
Ummm, I even made the Mario "Here we goooooo!" comment to denote it as an RVS vote. Are you saying that I'm lying about my vote on you being an RVS vote? If you are that's pretty funny. I don't see how you could read that as anything but an RVS vote.
Upon further reflection, I don't believe that Terry would bother to make an RVS vote immediately after I made a real vote on someone. I think he was just using that as an excuse. Vote Terry
Ummm, I even made the Mario "Here we goooooo!" comment to denote it as an RVS vote. Are you saying that I'm lying about my vote on you being an RVS vote? If you are that's pretty funny. I don't see how you could read that as anything but an RVS vote.
He did see it as an RVS vote. That's his point. He thinks you were using RVS as cover to vote him after he'd made a real vote, hence calling it an excuse. I don't see why him think you're lying would be funny. It would be implying scummy intent of using a fake reason to vote.
And I do find it slightly eyebrow raising to vote someone who just made a for real vote in RVS. Even if I did the same thing.
Speaking of @Cyan why is it scummy for Terry but not me?
25: Vaimes comes in and declares no RVS vote, which I think is strangely stubborn at this stage. Also that Cyan is town. Knowing the player type that Cyan is, this makes me really suspicious of Vaimes. It seems like a preemptive strike to keep Cyan from pushing him. @Vaimes: Why is Cyan town?
35-36: Vaimes posts here basically are cryptic and say nothing. So far I'm not liking Vaimes mindset.
-Vaimes: Ignores it
What do you mean by "knowing the player type that Cyan is"?
In my personal experience, I find Cyan pretty easy to read, at least in comparison to the rest of the players in this game. In your scenario, scum!me is trying to avoid a town!Cyan tunnel by...townreading him super duper early. Do you think I would be comfortable with poking Cyan at all so early if he and I are w/v?
Honestly, I was hoping for some kind of reaction to either solidify my read or make me rethink it. Radio silence is eh. I'll stick with the original read.
My only problem with Vaimes' #35 is he pretty much does the same thing he calls out Osieb for by not inferring anything himself about either of them. I, at the time, chose to interpret it as an accusation.
/quote]It was a question in the form of a mildly snarky fill-in-the-blank.
[quote from="Gentleman Johnny »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/787218-prison-block-mafia-day-1-a-day-out-in-the-yard?comment=30"]I love you shadow, but interesting choice to start this on Christmas weekend.
Vote Osierb. He slipped uber hard. I think he meant to send a message to wolf chat at ended up messaging me. Basically, he implied that Dan or Vezok should be focused today.
This is a boldfaced lie.
This is a lie, therefore his alignment is _________ because _________.
It felt like he is just phoning it in and expecting other people to put in the leg work. I may have actually missed this post when summarizing the responses. This seems pretty scummy to me.
[...]
I also didn't like Vaimes response to it.
It was a question. I'll rephrase it: "Hey osie, if it's a lie, why aren't you voting for him?"
"Expecting other people to put in the leg work" is quite a leap, Terry. If I am fundamentally asking osie what his read on GJ is based on a significant event, then I'm not going to Garcia myself by speculating/giving my own read on the players due to said event.
---
Separately, I kind of think Terry is scum for that page one busywork summary when we're only on page two.
I glanced at one of vezo's posts above and saw that he/she thinks Terry is scum so I'm going to give the slot a light townread.
Arc wrote "My only problem with Vaimes' #35 is he pretty much does the same thing he calls out Osieb for by not inferring anything himself about either of them. I, at the time, chose to interpret it as an accusation." I respond with "It was a question in the form of a mildly snarky fill-in-the-blank."
I love you shadow, but interesting choice to start this on Christmas weekend.
Vote Osierb. He slipped uber hard. I think he meant to send a message to wolf chat at ended up messaging me. Basically, he implied that Dan or Vezok should be focused today.
If this is true, I am a) mildly offended that I was not on that list and b) slightly intrigued that it happened.
Hey Vaimes, why do you think Cyan is town?
Kiiind of lightly townreading this. I'd expect a more serious-y post from scum in general; can't say much for what I'd expect from KJ specifically.
Throwing a question at me here when there's a reported slip makes me think that he isn't going like "oh yes goodie a townie who looks bad let's push this."
I love you shadow, but interesting choice to start this on Christmas weekend.
Vote Osierb. He slipped uber hard. I think he meant to send a message to wolf chat at ended up messaging me. Basically, he implied that Dan or Vezok should be focused today.
This is a boldfaced lie.
fyi, fishing for reactions is fine, but like. Don't also be shocked when you can't talk yourself out of it later if you're town and people keep giving you flack for it.
I skimmed ahead and am still not sure what the deal with the slip is but I think I remembering someone saying it was a gambit s o o o.
The only message I have sent to each chat is greetings to GJ and saying to Terry that chat could be used for analysis if Terry was town.
GJ has sent a message saying that he is fully aware that was a lie, and that it is there to see what reaction he gets.
Yeah here it is. I'm...eh? Don't care for it. Especially since 1) the gambit only lasted for like seven posts, 2) GJ vanished afterwards, and 3) osie was the one who announced it.
---
I kind of like Arc. No real reason besides prodding GJ to elaborate on his super productive trolling.
Terry gives off the impression of trying to be town rather than just being town.
Not sure if rapid vote-swapping is a towntell for Cyan or if he just Does It all the time, but it makes me like him a bit more. That, combined with him being pretty widely townread.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Upon further reflection, I don't believe that Terry would bother to make an RVS vote immediately after I made a real vote on someone. I think he was just using that as an excuse. Vote Terry
Ummm, I even made the Mario "Here we goooooo!" comment to denote it as an RVS vote. Are you saying that I'm lying about my vote on you being an RVS vote? If you are that's pretty funny. I don't see how you could read that as anything but an RVS vote.
He did see it as an RVS vote. That's his point. He thinks you were using RVS as cover to vote him after he'd made a real vote, hence calling it an excuse. I don't see why him think you're lying would be funny. It would be implying scummy intent of using a fake reason to vote.
And I do find it slightly eyebrow raising to vote someone who just made a for real vote in RVS. Even if I did the same thing.
Speaking of @Cyan why is it scummy for Terry but not me?
The logic here doesn't really make sense grape. Why would I want to disguise a real vote on someone on like the 16th post of the game? I don't think everyone had even posted by that point. Seriously, all the point of this game at this phase is to reaction troll people until people start taking stances and making tells. I can't even imagine why anyone would be concerned with a vote that was clearly an RVS vote. Again, why in the world would I try to hide a real vote as an RVS vote ON THE 16TH POST OF THE GAME!?
25: Vaimes comes in and declares no RVS vote, which I think is strangely stubborn at this stage. Also that Cyan is town. Knowing the player type that Cyan is, this makes me really suspicious of Vaimes. It seems like a preemptive strike to keep Cyan from pushing him. @Vaimes: Why is Cyan town?
35-36: Vaimes posts here basically are cryptic and say nothing. So far I'm not liking Vaimes mindset.
-Vaimes: Ignores it
What do you mean by "knowing the player type that Cyan is"?
In my personal experience, I find Cyan pretty easy to read, at least in comparison to the rest of the players in this game. In your scenario, scum!me is trying to avoid a town!Cyan tunnel by...townreading him super duper early. Do you think I would be comfortable with poking Cyan at all so early if he and I are w/v?
Honestly, I was hoping for some kind of reaction to either solidify my read or make me rethink it. Radio silence is eh. I'll stick with the original read.
My only problem with Vaimes' #35 is he pretty much does the same thing he calls out Osieb for by not inferring anything himself about either of them. I, at the time, chose to interpret it as an accusation.
/quote]It was a question in the form of a mildly snarky fill-in-the-blank.
This is a lie, therefore his alignment is _________ because _________.
It felt like he is just phoning it in and expecting other people to put in the leg work. I may have actually missed this post when summarizing the responses. This seems pretty scummy to me.
[...]
I also didn't like Vaimes response to it.
It was a question. I'll rephrase it: "Hey osie, if it's a lie, why aren't you voting for him?"
"Expecting other people to put in the leg work" is quite a leap, Terry. If I am fundamentally asking osie what his read on GJ is based on a significant event, then I'm not going to Garcia myself by speculating/giving my own read on the players due to said event.
---
Separately, I kind of think Terry is scum for that page one busywork summary when we're only on page two.
I glanced at one of vezo's posts above and saw that he/she thinks Terry is scum so I'm going to give the slot a light townread.
And now I'll read the rest of the game.
</blockquote>
I guess there are several points in this post:
1. "Knowing the type of player Cyan is", as you implied, I was referring to his aggressive tunneling (like I am already seeing here) and YES, I do think you would try to avoid that as scum by preemptively declaring him town.
2. The clarification on your fill in the blanks is appreciated, but one thing I find scum doing often is asking other players questions to look like they are doing something without actually trying to solve the game and generating their own reads. That's precisely what it looked like you were doing.
3. My "busywork". Excuse me for trying to stimulate this game a bit and get a set of reads going. At just over 80 hours, this game had a total of 50 posts. Compare that to Zero Escape, which took just over 24 hours. Granted it's a 17 player game, but the corrected time should have been 56.5 hours if it were to keep the same pace. Things are moving slow and now we have something to talk about. We are actually having some meaningful exchanges here. If you actually read the whole post (I know walls can be scary and I usually don't like to do them), you'll see I'm not just recapping posts, I'm interjecting my opinions and what I think that means for alignments. Sure there are a few I just recap, but not every post can be AI. On top of that I put out several reads for everyone to see at the end and discuss what I learned from actually trying.
3. My "busywork". Excuse me for trying to stimulate this game a bit and get a set of reads going. At just over 80 hours, this game had a total of 50 posts. Compare that to Zero Escape, which took just over 24 hours. Granted it's a 17 player game, but the corrected time should have been 56.5 hours if it were to keep the same pace. Things are moving slow and now we have something to talk about. We are actually having some meaningful exchanges here. If you actually read the whole post (I know walls can be scary and I usually don't like to do them), you'll see I'm not just recapping posts, I'm interjecting my opinions and what I think that means for alignments. Sure there are a few I just recap, but not every post can be AI. On top of that I put out several reads for everyone to see at the end and discuss what I learned from actually trying.
First off, posting an in depth analysis of the first page and discussing every single post in RVS is not stimulating the game. It's quite literally fluff.
Second, there is a reason why this game is not going as fast as Zero Escape and it's neither the number of players nor the amount of posts. This game started on Christmas when almost everyone doesn't have time for games. Wait for New Year's to pass and you'll see that the game will pick a lot of steam.
Although I still think Terry is scummy I'd like to see more content from the people who haven't really said anything yet, because Terry is exactly the type of player that scum will hide behind and just let him spam the thread.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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3. My "busywork". Excuse me for trying to stimulate this game a bit and get a set of reads going. At just over 80 hours, this game had a total of 50 posts. Compare that to Zero Escape, which took just over 24 hours. Granted it's a 17 player game, but the corrected time should have been 56.5 hours if it were to keep the same pace. Things are moving slow and now we have something to talk about. We are actually having some meaningful exchanges here. If you actually read the whole post (I know walls can be scary and I usually don't like to do them), you'll see I'm not just recapping posts, I'm interjecting my opinions and what I think that means for alignments. Sure there are a few I just recap, but not every post can be AI. On top of that I put out several reads for everyone to see at the end and discuss what I learned from actually trying.
First off, posting an in depth analysis of the first page and discussing every single post in RVS is not stimulating the game. It's quite literally fluff.
Second, there is a reason why this game is not going as fast as Zero Escape and it's neither the number of players nor the amount of posts. This game started on Christmas when almost everyone doesn't have time for games. Wait for New Year's to pass and you'll see that the game will pick a lot of steam.
Although I still think Terry is scummy I'd like to see more content from the people who haven't really said anything yet, because Terry is exactly the type of player that scum will hide behind and just let him spam the thread.
1. So we shouldn't be analyzing anything right now?
2. Day 1 ends January 3rd. So should we just twiddle our thumbs until then?
3. So you're saying I'm the type of player that scum hide behind while I spam the thread? That implies I'm town, but you still think I'm scummy? I want to hear other people get involved too, that's why I specifically addressed people in my big post, that's why I made stances and reads, because I wanted people to talk. No kidding, a Day 1 post recapping an utterly short RVS stage is not going to be game breaking but it will stimulate discussion. Do you think that's pro town or anti-town?
I would say it's more useful tbd your vote, but fine. He didn't send me anything. Reactions ere more useful than an rvs vote though.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
What have you learned?
I'm a bit lost on your thought flow, Cyan. Why (again) did you vote in the first place, and what just changed your mind?
Sounds like you've played enough with Cyan and can vouch his town meta is one of a blind tunneler, is that correct?
Could you clarify what you expect from scum Cyan on the other hand? How much does it differ from his town persona?
POST #:
-Dan: Catious, but curious
-Vaimes: Ignores it
-Cyan: Ignores it
-Grape: Believes its a dichotomy
-Arch: Hook line and sinker
SO what do I take from all that?
I'm liking Dan.
I like GJ's reaction troll because I'm a sucker for gambits.
Osi seemed to react in a town way to it, but I'm a little bit weirded out that he went right into... "If you are town" with me in our chat.
I'm not liking Vaimes so far.
Arch has me a bit concerned because of his jump on Osi, but I also think he may be adjusting to a new meta.
Cyan seems aggressive and I just need to hear some one tell me about his scum Meta before I can make use of that piece of info because I've seen him very aggressive as town.
Everyone else hasn't really pushed me one way or another.
CHANGE VOTE: Vaimes
The vote on you was indeed RVS.
I immediately voted Osi because I didn't see a reason not to take GJ's accusation at face value, and that serious accusation never comes from scum. I don't understand how you find this strange and I'd like you to elaborate. In fact--
"-KJ: Indifferent
-Dan: Catious, but curious
-Vaimes: Ignores it
-Cyan: Ignores it
-Grape: Believes its a dichotomy
-Arch: Hook line and sinker"
Elaborate on all of this. Stating the factual reactions does not make your opinion on them clear.
-----
@ #59: Thanks for the answer. "(unless Cyan is scum)" sounded to me like you expected his scum meta to be something specific. Why did you mean by that then?
Wel'll fine out. Why did you vote Osierb?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Alright Grumpy. What's bothering you?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
It'd be a scum's death sentence to pull your accusation on someone, so that only left the possibility you told the truth.
I said something to that effect in both chats. My response to you was less of a greeting, though.
You could have left out that chat part. I was clearly going to admit to it eventually.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I don't think that Gambit is AI for GJ.
I'm a little torn on Arc. I like most of 60 (him trying to get more out of terry and calling him on presenting facts as reads) but I don't love his insta clear of GJ. It's a weird clear to make of this thing would draw instant and unyielding pressure, and he did it, so therefore he must be town. It's a bit too easy and enough for me to draw a possible soft connection between the two of them. Probably too blatant for scum buddies and I have no real reason to think they are scum, just felt a bit protective. Going back to his Terry interaction for a second completely agree that Terry's stance on Cyan reads like he has info on Cyan's game from both sides of the coin not just one.
Cyan feels vaguely townie to me. That sort of exasperation feels like town!Cyan not wanting to have to defend/clear himself. Not a strong read, just soft tonal feels.
He says now it's a reaction test, so he's not lock town anymore. If anything I see more scum intent from it than a town one, specially with how sloppily executed it's been, both from lack of follow-up and lack of setup with Osie for a more convincing test; not to mention the quality of the test itself is questionable with what I stated in the above paragraph -- any reasonable person would immediately favor GJ (and I'm deeply confused why I'm the only one who reacted that way, if memory serves) so there's not much room for testing there in the first place.
Which is why I'm prodding both Terry and GJ on this for an explanation of their findings, and on the "test" itself. I fail to see any use from it. I'd also throughly enjoy a counter-argument to the first paragraph from just about anyone.
Or at least, it should serve no purpose. But it seems not everyone reacted the expected way.
I do acknowledge that four different people reacted differently, though, besides Grapefruit at #38 although that one lacks the conclusion themselves. All of those reactions feel fundamentally wrong on their approach (#31, #34, #35, and the absence of one at #37). I'm choosing to ignore reactions after Osieb outs it as a lie, since it muddies things a bit if, say, Osieb/GJ is TvT for example.
KJ's "slighty intrigued that it happened" points to no direction or conclusion. Despite being "intrigued", whatever that entails, he asks no question on the matter, instead being more curious on questioning a townread from a completely different player (I don't mind the question itself, but it feels like they could've spent more attention on the first topic as well).
Gan brings up character limit, implying disbelief, when at the end of the day it's still a Osie vs GJ, each's word against the other. A meaningless point to address, and unreliable evidence in such. --Of course, I could just be misunderstanding his post and Gan is actually asking wether he sent a private forum message or a message in the quicktopic. I'm not sure what that would entail.
Vaimes' #35 isn't all that bad, he makes a valid observation: Osieb called out GJ for lying, but despite knowing the accusation was a lie, Osieb didn't infer anything about GJ's alignment, which is another nonsensical reaction. My only problem with Vaimes' #35 is he pretty much does the same thing he calls out Osieb for by not inferring anything himself about either of them. I, at the time, chose to interpret it as an accusation.
Cyan just ignores it. On purpose I imagine, I don't see how you could've accidentally missed it. Why?
---
I'll momentarily try to infer their alignments by assuming different scenarios.
If Osieb/GJ = Town/Town, I believe scum would be cautious with their reactions, to avoid falling themselves into a possible trap, since they know it's a test. KJ's and Gan's (and Vaimes'?) reactions seem to fit that profile by acknowledging the accusation but not taking a stance.
If Osieb/GJ = Scum/Town, I believe scum would act similarly. Maybe try to soft-distance in an attempt to "pass" the test, which could be what Vaimes' did.
If Osieb/GJ = Town/Scum, I think they just ignore the whole thing altogether. It's easier to not get involved and let your buddy do your thing. This would be Cyan. Though if you did get involved you'd make your reaction open-ended enough that GJ could "analyse" it and distance each other, so it could apply to the others.
If Osieb/GJ = Scum/Scum, first: lol. Second: I think you just ignore it. (Cyan)
That's enough of inferring, I think.
At the end, I'm left scratching my head at all of you. None of your reactions made any sense, imo. You can't all be scum so some of you must have decent reasonings for your reactions. I don't feel like I can make any reasonable assumption about the reactions individually without comments from all of you.
I wasn't going to OMGUS vote GJ, but the implication in calling it a bold-faced lie was that GJ was acting scummy.
It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia - The "Implication"
I avoid OMGUS-voting people regardless of alignment. I'm not going to vote someone just because they vote me under bad pretense, because that does not inherently mean that they are scum. If GJ was just pushing this avenue without voting me, that would be one thing. But given that wasn't the case, it wasn't correct in my book to vote him.
2. What wrong Trees am I up? You think Vaimes is town? Yeah I guess I can see this as town vaimes because I've seen him mislynhced before, but I've never seen his scum game, so for now a little pressure on him and his Cyan Town-Read will have to do.
3. I just don't think Scum GJ brings that kind of attention to himself right off the bat, but again I'm not playing with a full meta deck. I still would say, no matter who the player is, 8 times out of 10 this type of gambit is meant to catch scum and not earn town credit.
4. I think Arc's most recent posts have me leaning town on him.
5. What does scum Cyan play like?
I didn't complain about the lack of a vote, I complained about the lack of an accusation, which you just now said was implied. That's the problem with implications, and something people here apparently like doing: If you're not being clear with your thoughts, they're bound to misinterpretation at most, or they're useless at least.
Since you say you did accuse them though... I suppose outing that it's a test does make more sense.
You have a point that shading him for it wouldn't be the best. But it is not clear that it was necessarily a scum gambit. It could be, though.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unvote
In no particular order:
Town:
Osieorb18
Lean Town:
ganderin_dan
Grapefruit
Killjoy
Terry
Less Sure:
Cyan
Vaimes
Vezokpiraka
Scummy:
Arcthurus
Gentleman Johnny
Arcthurus -> Less Sure.
GJ -> Less Sure.
Vaimes -> Scummy.
Vote: Vaimes
He just kind of blows right by it and ignores it. It indicates that he either knows it's not true already or that he is just waiting to let it play out. It doesn't say a ton for his alignment, but if it does it's probably a scum lean.
Here's Dan's:
He asks for more information. It looks like he is not jumping to conclusions but wanting to learn more and explore what happened. This says town to me.
Vaimes made no sense to me:
It felt like he is just phoning it in and expecting other people to put in the leg work. I may have actually missed this post when summarizing the responses. This seems pretty scummy to me.
Cyan doesn't even acknowledge it.
Grape says:
Which says to me that he believes it, but waiting to see how it plays out.
You, Arc just naked voted Osi, which is exactly what aggressive scum looking for an easy mislynch would do Day 1 and on top of that, if it is continued as a "dichotomy" scum could get a second mislynch out of it if it was T v T. That being said, I think you're play has been town and in the long run maybe we don't learn a ton from GJ's gambit, but for me I will take out of it that I think GJ's town trying to generate reactions and glean reads from those reactions which is a very town thing to do.
I also didn't like Vaimes response to it.
If you could do more than just list them that'd be A+. Quality > quantity, so just elaborate on the ones you have more depth to / feel more strongly.
Unvote
Anybody else catching up, please reply to #68.
Still waiting on that analysis, Terry/GJ. I did my part, only fair you do yours.
I'm not completely informed by meta but I think that GJs gambit is completely NAI for him. It gives a lot to dig into which is town plus, but it created a lot of reactions to a nothing which makes them less valuable.
I don't know scum Cyan, but generally peoples personality shines through either way.
@Arc I did misunderstand your point. As for your new posts why are you framing the reactions in terms of Osie and GJs alignments? Also I general disagree that not reacting to it before elaboration is a scummy look. Cyan doesn't necessarily fit this archetype but a town tend to be more cautious and wait for more information before taking a stand while scum are more likely to push a conclusion. Or completely avoid it which is what Cyan did but given the compressed timeline and circumstances and the jig being up before he followed up I have a hard time reaching a conclusion about him.
He did see it as an RVS vote. That's his point. He thinks you were using RVS as cover to vote him after he'd made a real vote, hence calling it an excuse. I don't see why him think you're lying would be funny. It would be implying scummy intent of using a fake reason to vote.
And I do find it slightly eyebrow raising to vote someone who just made a for real vote in RVS. Even if I did the same thing.
Speaking of @Cyan why is it scummy for Terry but not me?
I'm thinking osierb and terry are scum, but I like my vote on Terry right now.
I'm also getting some gut scum feeling from Archturus, but I'm not really sure what it is.
I think Cyan is really town right now.
Can we cut out the fluff and keep posts to the absolute necessary?
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Huh?
First, direct responses.
What do you mean by "knowing the player type that Cyan is"?
In my personal experience, I find Cyan pretty easy to read, at least in comparison to the rest of the players in this game. In your scenario, scum!me is trying to avoid a town!Cyan tunnel by...townreading him super duper early. Do you think I would be comfortable with poking Cyan at all so early if he and I are w/v?
Honestly, I was hoping for some kind of reaction to either solidify my read or make me rethink it. Radio silence is eh. I'll stick with the original read.
It was a question. I'll rephrase it: "Hey osie, if it's a lie, why aren't you voting for him?"
"Expecting other people to put in the leg work" is quite a leap, Terry. If I am fundamentally asking osie what his read on GJ is based on a significant event, then I'm not going to Garcia myself by speculating/giving my own read on the players due to said event.
---
Separately, I kind of think Terry is scum for that page one busywork summary when we're only on page two.
I glanced at one of vezo's posts above and saw that he/she thinks Terry is scum so I'm going to give the slot a light townread.
And now I'll read the rest of the game.
Sadly I don't care enough to correct it.
Arc wrote "My only problem with Vaimes' #35 is he pretty much does the same thing he calls out Osieb for by not inferring anything himself about either of them. I, at the time, chose to interpret it as an accusation." I respond with "It was a question in the form of a mildly snarky fill-in-the-blank."
Other than that it should be readable.
aaaaaaaa
Too lazy to make my own.
Also vote Terry
---
Kiiind of lightly townreading this. I'd expect a more serious-y post from scum in general; can't say much for what I'd expect from KJ specifically.
Throwing a question at me here when there's a reported slip makes me think that he isn't going like "oh yes goodie a townie who looks bad let's push this."
fyi, fishing for reactions is fine, but like. Don't also be shocked when you can't talk yourself out of it later if you're town and people keep giving you flack for it.
I skimmed ahead and am still not sure what the deal with the slip is but I think I remembering someone saying it was a gambit s o o o.
Yeah here it is. I'm...eh? Don't care for it. Especially since 1) the gambit only lasted for like seven posts, 2) GJ vanished afterwards, and 3) osie was the one who announced it.
---
I kind of like Arc. No real reason besides prodding GJ to elaborate on his super productive trolling.
Terry gives off the impression of trying to be town rather than just being town.
Not sure if rapid vote-swapping is a towntell for Cyan or if he just Does It all the time, but it makes me like him a bit more. That, combined with him being pretty widely townread.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
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I guess there are several points in this post:
1. "Knowing the type of player Cyan is", as you implied, I was referring to his aggressive tunneling (like I am already seeing here) and YES, I do think you would try to avoid that as scum by preemptively declaring him town.
2. The clarification on your fill in the blanks is appreciated, but one thing I find scum doing often is asking other players questions to look like they are doing something without actually trying to solve the game and generating their own reads. That's precisely what it looked like you were doing.
3. My "busywork". Excuse me for trying to stimulate this game a bit and get a set of reads going. At just over 80 hours, this game had a total of 50 posts. Compare that to Zero Escape, which took just over 24 hours. Granted it's a 17 player game, but the corrected time should have been 56.5 hours if it were to keep the same pace. Things are moving slow and now we have something to talk about. We are actually having some meaningful exchanges here. If you actually read the whole post (I know walls can be scary and I usually don't like to do them), you'll see I'm not just recapping posts, I'm interjecting my opinions and what I think that means for alignments. Sure there are a few I just recap, but not every post can be AI. On top of that I put out several reads for everyone to see at the end and discuss what I learned from actually trying.
First off, posting an in depth analysis of the first page and discussing every single post in RVS is not stimulating the game. It's quite literally fluff.
Second, there is a reason why this game is not going as fast as Zero Escape and it's neither the number of players nor the amount of posts. This game started on Christmas when almost everyone doesn't have time for games. Wait for New Year's to pass and you'll see that the game will pick a lot of steam.
Although I still think Terry is scummy I'd like to see more content from the people who haven't really said anything yet, because Terry is exactly the type of player that scum will hide behind and just let him spam the thread.
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Check out the Shop Thread
2. Day 1 ends January 3rd. So should we just twiddle our thumbs until then?
3. So you're saying I'm the type of player that scum hide behind while I spam the thread? That implies I'm town, but you still think I'm scummy? I want to hear other people get involved too, that's why I specifically addressed people in my big post, that's why I made stances and reads, because I wanted people to talk. No kidding, a Day 1 post recapping an utterly short RVS stage is not going to be game breaking but it will stimulate discussion. Do you think that's pro town or anti-town?
ganderin_dan -(1)- Killjoy
Cyan -(1)- Grapefruit21
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry -(3)- vezokpiraka, Cyan, Vaimes
Osieorb18 -(1)- Gentleman Johnny
Vaimes -(2)- TheRealStinkyJoeTerry, Osieorb18
Not Voting -(2)- ganderin_dan, Arcthurus
Lynch threshold is 6 votes.
Day 1 ends at 2359 Eastern Time on Wednesday 3 January 2018