Osie also hasn't left me thinking anything specific. Which is notably weird.I always have some sort of opinion on Osie. I'm going to reread him later tonight to see why that is.
You mean you always have the same, wrong opinion on me?
I've been lower than usual activity for a variety of reasons. That will change, though. I have the file for note taking ready on my computer for something more than preliminary reads.
Yeah, usually your town game irks me. This game you're not irking me. That's weird.
@Shadow: Would it be appropriate to grant us an extension for today? It seems like so many people were VLA over the holidays it might be nice to have until Friday to wrap up day 1.
I'd appreciate that as well. I was basically V/LA without being V/LA because work. So, an extension would be great for me.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
As I have received a couple of requests for a deadline extension, please PM me here or message me on Discord if you have a preference either for or against an extension
Also, Osie just seems like a player that wears his heart on his sleeve. Like look at that last post. His reaction seems genuinely hurt. It's a non-tell in that case, but in the previous post it seemed like he was also being sincere, and seemed very town.
@Vaimes, you're at L-2. Unless standard operating procedure here has changed, you're due to claim. @Cyan, I've made that exact post (154) that Osie just made as scum before. I don't see it as alignment-indicative. @Mod, I'm pro-extension. @Vezok (or anyone else, really), you don't share my issues with Osie? @KJ, funny you say that about Cyan, because I kind of feel the same about you. You seem like you're not putting anywhere near the amount of effort into the game that I'm accustomed to seeing from you.
Dont think vaimes is a wolf. Cam explain after new years.
Also, site has been very unfriendly to my phone :/
Maybe tell us who you think is scum if you're opposed to the biggest wagon?
Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I dislike osierb's reaction. I told him before I made that post what I was planning to do, spices the game up, gets people thinking, draws some reactions, and he just pew pews it. Like, is is he really that ******* paranoid I am a wolf trying to 1v1 gambit him? That's an absurdly stupid conclusion to draw from someone who has played even a single game of mafia. I would 1 for ******* 1 all day in his shoes if I was town, why not play along and see what happens. Don't out me.
I also have reasons for Vaimes, I just don't want to get into it.
KJ has a slight town reading from me, as does Cyan. Still working on other reads.
@GJ What does "TBD your vote (because this doesn't feel like "to be determined" in context)" mean in 51? Also, have you learned enough since 61 to go into further detail?
Unless you just answered them. I agree with your Osie conclusion.
EBWODP:
quote from="Grapefruit21 »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/787218-prison-block-mafia-day-1-a-day-out-in-the-yard?comment=134"]@Dan I think it's a town reaction from Osie because I think Scum!Osie is more likely to play along knowing it's a reaction test and less likely to immeadiately OMGUS due to the extra information that GJ would be town. Town Osie in the dark about GJ's alignment is much more likely to hammer back with force like we saw happen.
On Vaimes I had the opposite reaction to most of the thread and liked his "This says ______ about his alignment because_______" reply. I thought it was townie in the same variant of my wait and see post. It seemed to me trying to get GJ and Osie to interact more so it was easier to sort them out. Given the amount of people with opposite impression on Vaimes I need to reevaluate but I liked it on first impression.[/quote]
@GF How do you feel about this interpretation now, seeing GJ's reaction? Thank you for the other two responses, I agree with your Vaimes read based off that reply (disclaimer, that might be because of how I enjoyed the actual manner of his post, as well as agreeing with the content behind it).
Dont think vaimes is a wolf. Cam explain after new years.
Also, site has been very unfriendly to my phone :/
Maybe tell us who you think is scum if you're opposed to the biggest wagon?
My main opinion on your gambit is that if you were scum trying to 1v1 you would have went with it, not retract it.
Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I dislike osierb's reaction. I told him before I made that post what I was planning to do, spices the game up, gets people thinking, draws some reactions, and he just pew pews it. Like, is is he really that ******* paranoid I am a wolf trying to 1v1 gambit him? That's an absurdly stupid conclusion to draw from someone who has played even a single game of mafia. I would 1 for ******* 1 all day in his shoes if I was town, why not play along and see what happens. Don't out me.
I also have reasons for Vaimes, I just don't want to get into it.
KJ has a slight town reading from me, as does Cyan. Still working on other reads.
@Vaimes Can you reconcile a slight scumread on Terry leading to both a slight townread on Vezok and a vote on Terry a couple posts later?
Are you asking me why I had a scumread on Terry but voted in a completely separate post? I don't understand the question if it isn't that.
And if that is your question, then there is no real answer. Sometimes I vote in different posts. It doesn't mean anything.
You made it seem like this was a small scumtell, or something that was making you lean scum on Terry. Did I misunderstand you? Can you explain why you think that is such a big tell for you to make you confident in Vezok's alignment as well?
@GJ What does "TBD your vote (because this doesn't feel like "to be determined" in context)" mean in 51? Also, have you learned enough since 61 to go into further detail?
Unless you just answered them. I agree with your Osie conclusion.
I honestly don't know. I think i meant tbf to be fair. Point i was trying to make is that prodding for reactions was better than hos rvs vote.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@Dan I'm not buying GJs reply. This game has been moving pretty slowly and I can very easily see me doing the same thing in Osies spot. People pushing you. Reactions being set and GJ being MIA. I'd have trouble sitting on it as either alignment. And what's his gain as scum? I really don't see what Osir gains by short circuiting it. Letting it play out more wastes thread focus on a nothing issue for your team.
@Vaimes, you're at L-2. Unless standard operating procedure here has changed, you're due to claim. @Cyan, I've made that exact post (154) that Osie just made as scum before. I don't see it as alignment-indicative. @Mod, I'm pro-extension. @Vezok (or anyone else, really), you don't share my issues with Osie? @KJ, funny you say that about Cyan, because I kind of feel the same about you. You seem like you're not putting anywhere near the amount of effort into the game that I'm accustomed to seeing from you.
Oh right, minis.
I'm Vanilla Town. I feel like it's worth mentioning that GJ is a butt and hasn't said a word to me in our chat. I might as well have been shoved into one of the A or J cells.
Dont think vaimes is a wolf. Cam explain after new years.
Also, site has been very unfriendly to my phone :/
Maybe tell us who you think is scum if you're opposed to the biggest wagon?
Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I dislike osierb's reaction. I told him before I made that post what I was planning to do, spices the game up, gets people thinking, draws some reactions, and he just pew pews it. Like, is is he really that ******* paranoid I am a wolf trying to 1v1 gambit him? That's an absurdly stupid conclusion to draw from someone who has played even a single game of mafia. I would 1 for ******* 1 all day in his shoes if I was town, why not play along and see what happens. Don't out me.
I also have reasons for Vaimes, I just don't want to get into it.
KJ has a slight town reading from me, as does Cyan. Still working on other reads.
The ****? You think I'm town but you don't want to "get into it" when I'm the leading wagon with deadline a day away? You can't have it both ways.
Something I noticed is that as town, he's 1) more engaged, and 2) more willing to directly interact with almost everyone.
Whereas as scum he 1) talks past people, 2) talks mostly to himself, or aimlessly towards everyone, and 3) doesn't seem to care about the game at all.
He's pretty much ignored me the entire game until JT and vezo started pressuring me (though he did express "muh bluh Vaimes scummy" before vezo's actual vote, I'll credit him that much), and then ignored me completely when I attempted to directly interact with him.
Anyway, if I die, be sure to take another look at him, as well as GJ. kinda lightly townreading Terry for leading a lynch on me of all people, but vOv
actually, GJ claiming to have ~reasons~ for townreading me but neither going over them itt nor reaching out to me in our chat is either scummy or just plain *****ty.
hey GJ please talk about that or my dying wish will be for someone to vaporize you
Well this is slightly more worrying from Vaimes. Naked accusations under pressure isn't the towniest thing in the world.
Yeah, because I, as scum under pressure, think it is in my best interest to naked-vote someone I was townreading.
I thought you didn't find scum intentions relevant? :^]
As someone who DOES find them such though, it IS pretty bold. And although being bold makes sense for a scum at L-2, not immediately backing yourself up to gain momentum does not, so I don't find the nakedness vote scummy.
I'll have to ponder on the cyan read later since I gotta bail rn
I normally don't, but if I stuck strictly to my beliefs then I wouldn't be able to make nearly the amount of snarky posts that I do, and I love snarky posts.
Like, this? I'm pretty sure this is the only time he has directly acknowledged me, and it's to imitate his town personality/meta. The post is pointless otherwise. Dunno why he picked this one to respond to when he's completely ignored questions I directed at him.
Town!Cyan is more free with his vote, has more to say, and more people to say it to. Instead his posts are short and clipped, he isn't really interacting with anyone in any meaningful way, and despite Terry's post that everyone blew up at me for disagreeing with, I don't think Cyan has said anything that indicates he's thinking about this game at any level beyond a superficial one. I expect him to be outraged and call me obvious scum for making this point, or that it's a bunch of nonsense, if he bothers acknowledging me at all.
People are free to metacheck him on their own time. GJ is objectively bad here and should be prodded with a battering ram.
I'm not really looking to let myself be mislynched, but I'm not gonna kick and scream either. It's a new year and I'm trying to be more chill.
@KJ: I think I made my feelings regarding your effort thus far clear enough. Anyway, I used to be a heavily analytical player, but for the last year or so that I played it was more gut/instinct.
@Vaimes: I haven't played the game in like a year and I got practically dragged into this game. I think you're scum, especially so now. If people want to believe me, they can. If not, such is life.
Quote from GJ »
@Cyan, I've made that exact post (154) that Osie just made as scum before. I don't see it as alignment-indicative.
@Dan I'm not buying GJs reply. This game has been moving pretty slowly and I can very easily see me doing the same thing in Osies spot. People pushing you. Reactions being set and GJ being MIA. I'd have trouble sitting on it as either alignment. And what's his gain as scum? I really don't see what Osir gains by short circuiting it. Letting it play out more wastes thread focus on a nothing issue for your team.
When I tell you exactly what I am going to do, and then do it, your reaction is that I am a wolf that might single handily lie, condemning myself to get a blind townie lynched? Really, that's your play? Maybe in this town situation if I knew you were like a Cop or doctor I might think about it, but blind? As a townie, your reaction might be irritation, annoyance, but some amount of curiosity. If I am a wolf, I am just setting myself up for failure down the line. If I am town, then see what happens if I have an idea. In both cases, if OSie is town, his reaction was pretty garbage and short sighted at best, or wolfy at worst.
Also, if he is a wolf, he might not like the idea of the spotlight being forced on him.
Cyan is lock town by the way, unless he suddenly found his love for mafia restored. Judging by the pessimism, I doubt it
@Dan I'm not buying GJs reply. This game has been moving pretty slowly and I can very easily see me doing the same thing in Osies spot. People pushing you. Reactions being set and GJ being MIA. I'd have trouble sitting on it as either alignment. And what's his gain as scum? I really don't see what Osir gains by short circuiting it. Letting it play out more wastes thread focus on a nothing issue for your team.
When I tell you exactly what I am going to do, and then do it, your reaction is that I am a wolf that might single handily lie, condemning myself to get a blind townie lynched? Really, that's your play? Maybe in this town situation if I knew you were like a Cop or doctor I might think about it, but blind? As a townie, your reaction might be irritation, annoyance, but some amount of curiosity. If I am a wolf, I am just setting myself up for failure down the line. If I am town, then see what happens if I have an idea. In both cases, if OSie is town, his reaction was pretty garbage and short sighted at best, or wolfy at worst.
Also, if he is a wolf, he might not like the idea of the spotlight being forced on him.
Cyan is lock town by the way, unless he suddenly found his love for mafia restored. Judging by the pessimism, I doubt it
I'm not saying it makes you scum. I'm saying it doesn't make Osie scum. Osie played along with it (calling you a liar locking in the dichotomy) before giving up the jig once a significant portion of the game reacted to it. That feels more town motivated. He's stopping people from wasting more time and refocusing the discussion to the reactions. As scum knowing you did it as a test why wouldn't he let it play out longer and derail the thread.
I've said before and maintain that the whole thing is NAI for you. But I think that Osie's handling of it was townie.
The gambit was so poorly executed that it's hard to gleam anything from it. It's true that GJ seems slightly townier for it, but it doesn't influence my read too much on him.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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I normally don't, but if I stuck strictly to my beliefs then I wouldn't be able to make nearly the amount of snarky posts that I do, and I love snarky posts.
Like, this? I'm pretty sure this is the only time he has directly acknowledged me, and it's to imitate his town personality/meta. The post is pointless otherwise. Dunno why he picked this one to respond to when he's completely ignored questions I directed at him.
Town!Cyan is more free with his vote, has more to say, and more people to say it to. Instead his posts are short and clipped, he isn't really interacting with anyone in any meaningful way, and despite Terry's post that everyone blew up at me for disagreeing with, I don't think Cyan has said anything that indicates he's thinking about this game at any level beyond a superficial one. I expect him to be outraged and call me obvious scum for making this point, or that it's a bunch of nonsense, if he bothers acknowledging me at all.
People are free to metacheck him on their own time. GJ is objectively bad here and should be prodded with a battering ram.
I'm not really looking to let myself be mislynched, but I'm not gonna kick and scream either. It's a new year and I'm trying to be more chill.
Wrt the cy meta read, didn't you call his frequent vote swapping aligns with his town meta earlier?
I don't feel adequate to make a call here since I don't know his meta.
Yes. I think he's only voted ~three times toDay? He went back and forth on Terry a bit.
And it's true that, as far as I can recall, Cyan has been playing mafia against his will recently, so him not caring about the game could unfortunately just be a him-thing and not a scum thing.
But, y'know, his vote on me sucks, his play this game has sucked, and I think he shouldn't get a free pass for...whatever he's getting a pass for.
Also I don't really care about anything GJ has to say re: Cyan because he's being...something. I don't think "deliberately obtuse" quite covers it.
It's true that GJ seems slightly townier for it, but it doesn't influence my read too much on him.
Hey vezo what a coincidence I was just talking about GJ maybe you didn't notice, did a Thing that I don't think is towny, what do you think of it and how does it influence your read because I will not accept "it's NAI" as an answer, thanks.
I feel like you're not really trying here Cyan.
I can't recall. Is your game usuually very gut-based, or is it more logical/analytical?
I'd appreciate that as well. I was basically V/LA without being V/LA because work. So, an extension would be great for me.
Unvote, vote Cyan
Scumtell detected.
Are you asking me why I had a scumread on Terry but voted in a completely separate post? I don't understand the question if it isn't that.
And if that is your question, then there is no real answer. Sometimes I vote in different posts. It doesn't mean anything.
@KJ Your "current" thoughts are needless if you haven't fully caught up.
What is it?
Aww. Okay.
Avalon
Maelstrom of Alara
OTG III
It Was a Dark and Stormy Night
...
Whatever, man.
I lol'ed.
Sincerely,
Cyan
Vaimes' is just digging his hole more and more. If anyone wants to start a wagon on someone else you need a damn good reason for it.
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Check out the Shop Thread
@Cyan, I've made that exact post (154) that Osie just made as scum before. I don't see it as alignment-indicative.
@Mod, I'm pro-extension.
@Vezok (or anyone else, really), you don't share my issues with Osie?
@KJ, funny you say that about Cyan, because I kind of feel the same about you. You seem like you're not putting anywhere near the amount of effort into the game that I'm accustomed to seeing from you.
Not really.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I dislike osierb's reaction. I told him before I made that post what I was planning to do, spices the game up, gets people thinking, draws some reactions, and he just pew pews it. Like, is is he really that ******* paranoid I am a wolf trying to 1v1 gambit him? That's an absurdly stupid conclusion to draw from someone who has played even a single game of mafia. I would 1 for ******* 1 all day in his shoes if I was town, why not play along and see what happens. Don't out me.
I also have reasons for Vaimes, I just don't want to get into it.
KJ has a slight town reading from me, as does Cyan. Still working on other reads.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
GJ, I had a couple questions for you back in 133:
Unless you just answered them. I agree with your Osie conclusion.
quote from="Grapefruit21 »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/787218-prison-block-mafia-day-1-a-day-out-in-the-yard?comment=134"]@Dan I think it's a town reaction from Osie because I think Scum!Osie is more likely to play along knowing it's a reaction test and less likely to immeadiately OMGUS due to the extra information that GJ would be town. Town Osie in the dark about GJ's alignment is much more likely to hammer back with force like we saw happen.
On Vaimes I had the opposite reaction to most of the thread and liked his "This says ______ about his alignment because_______" reply. I thought it was townie in the same variant of my wait and see post. It seemed to me trying to get GJ and Osie to interact more so it was easier to sort them out. Given the amount of people with opposite impression on Vaimes I need to reevaluate but I liked it on first impression.[/quote]
@GF How do you feel about this interpretation now, seeing GJ's reaction? Thank you for the other two responses, I agree with your Vaimes read based off that reply (disclaimer, that might be because of how I enjoyed the actual manner of his post, as well as agreeing with the content behind it).
Somehow, this got inserted INTO GJ's quote:
My main opinion on your gambit is that if you were scum trying to 1v1 you would have went with it, not retract it.
So this 180 is pretty bad and again there is a read being made here with no explanation. Explanation please. What changed?
I honestly don't know. I think i meant tbf to be fair. Point i was trying to make is that prodding for reactions was better than hos rvs vote.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Yeah, because I, as scum under pressure, think it is in my best interest to naked-vote someone I was townreading.
Hang on a sec.
Oh right, minis.
I'm Vanilla Town. I feel like it's worth mentioning that GJ is a butt and hasn't said a word to me in our chat. I might as well have been shoved into one of the A or J cells. The ****? You think I'm town but you don't want to "get into it" when I'm the leading wagon with deadline a day away? You can't have it both ways.
Something I noticed is that as town, he's 1) more engaged, and 2) more willing to directly interact with almost everyone.
Whereas as scum he 1) talks past people, 2) talks mostly to himself, or aimlessly towards everyone, and 3) doesn't seem to care about the game at all.
He's pretty much ignored me the entire game until JT and vezo started pressuring me (though he did express "muh bluh Vaimes scummy" before vezo's actual vote, I'll credit him that much), and then ignored me completely when I attempted to directly interact with him.
Anyway, if I die, be sure to take another look at him, as well as GJ. kinda lightly townreading Terry for leading a lynch on me of all people, but vOv
I...don't really care about anyone else.
hey GJ please talk about that or my dying wish will be for someone to vaporize you
???
This makes absolutely no sense.
I thought you didn't find scum intentions relevant? :^]
As someone who DOES find them such though, it IS pretty bold. And although being bold makes sense for a scum at L-2, not immediately backing yourself up to gain momentum does not, so I don't find the nakedness vote scummy.
I'll have to ponder on the cyan read later since I gotta bail rn
Like, this? I'm pretty sure this is the only time he has directly acknowledged me, and it's to imitate his town personality/meta. The post is pointless otherwise. Dunno why he picked this one to respond to when he's completely ignored questions I directed at him.
Town!Cyan is more free with his vote, has more to say, and more people to say it to. Instead his posts are short and clipped, he isn't really interacting with anyone in any meaningful way, and despite Terry's post that everyone blew up at me for disagreeing with, I don't think Cyan has said anything that indicates he's thinking about this game at any level beyond a superficial one. I expect him to be outraged and call me obvious scum for making this point, or that it's a bunch of nonsense, if he bothers acknowledging me at all.
People are free to metacheck him on their own time. GJ is objectively bad here and should be prodded with a battering ram.
I'm not really looking to let myself be mislynched, but I'm not gonna kick and scream either. It's a new year and I'm trying to be more chill.
GJ says he thinks I'm town, but he doesn't want to actually do anything about it.
@Vaimes: I haven't played the game in like a year and I got practically dragged into this game. I think you're scum, especially so now. If people want to believe me, they can. If not, such is life.
You're not Osie, so.
When I tell you exactly what I am going to do, and then do it, your reaction is that I am a wolf that might single handily lie, condemning myself to get a blind townie lynched? Really, that's your play? Maybe in this town situation if I knew you were like a Cop or doctor I might think about it, but blind? As a townie, your reaction might be irritation, annoyance, but some amount of curiosity. If I am a wolf, I am just setting myself up for failure down the line. If I am town, then see what happens if I have an idea. In both cases, if OSie is town, his reaction was pretty garbage and short sighted at best, or wolfy at worst.
Also, if he is a wolf, he might not like the idea of the spotlight being forced on him.
Cyan is lock town by the way, unless he suddenly found his love for mafia restored. Judging by the pessimism, I doubt it
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I am assuming you meant to quote dan?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I'm not saying it makes you scum. I'm saying it doesn't make Osie scum. Osie played along with it (calling you a liar locking in the dichotomy) before giving up the jig once a significant portion of the game reacted to it. That feels more town motivated. He's stopping people from wasting more time and refocusing the discussion to the reactions. As scum knowing you did it as a test why wouldn't he let it play out longer and derail the thread.
I've said before and maintain that the whole thing is NAI for you. But I think that Osie's handling of it was townie.
Yeah whoops.
The gambit was so poorly executed that it's hard to gleam anything from it. It's true that GJ seems slightly townier for it, but it doesn't influence my read too much on him.
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Check out the Shop Thread
Wrt the cy meta read, didn't you call his frequent vote swapping aligns with his town meta earlier?
I don't feel adequate to make a call here since I don't know his meta.
And it's true that, as far as I can recall, Cyan has been playing mafia against his will recently, so him not caring about the game could unfortunately just be a him-thing and not a scum thing.
But, y'know, his vote on me sucks, his play this game has sucked, and I think he shouldn't get a free pass for...whatever he's getting a pass for.
Also I don't really care about anything GJ has to say re: Cyan because he's being...something. I don't think "deliberately obtuse" quite covers it.
Use your words and talk about your reads.
ganderin_dan -(1)- Killjoy
Osieorb18 -(2)- Gentleman Johnny, ganderin_dan
Vaimes -(3)- TheRealStinkyJoeTerry, vezokpiraka, Cyan
Arcthurus -(1)- Grapefruit21
Cyan -(1)- Vaimes
Not Voting -(2)- Arcthurus, Osieorb18
Lynch threshold is 6 votes.
Day 1 ends at 2359 Eastern Time on Friday 5 January 2018
I am, Get over yourself.
Cyan has hos town tone on. His wolf voice is much less stove voice. Town odds more assertive.
Kj is tri n to solve the habe from what i can see.
Apart from my reaCtion test, osie has done very little measurable pays, imo.
Haven't really been looking at Other people, honestly. Vaimes, i just have reasons for.
The GJ way path to no lynching: