1. So we shouldn't be analyzing anything right now?
2. Day 1 ends January 3rd. So should we just twiddle our thumbs until then?
3. So you're saying I'm the type of player that scum hide behind while I spam the thread? That implies I'm town, but you still think I'm scummy? I want to hear other people get involved too, that's why I specifically addressed people in my big post, that's why I made stances and reads, because I wanted people to talk. No kidding, a Day 1 post recapping an utterly short RVS stage is not going to be game breaking but it will stimulate discussion. Do you think that's pro town or anti-town?
1. We shouldn't analyze pointless stuff. It doesn't help anyone that you wrote that posts 1-4 are mod related. That could've been omitted and nobody would be affected, This is just an example.
2. Of course not. We should talk, but not everyone is active because of real life stuff. I think it's probably the worst way the deadline could line up, but I think we can manage to do something productive until then.
3. This doesn't affect my read on you. It was just an observation that if you aren't scum, they are letting you spam the thread.
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1. So we shouldn't be analyzing anything right now?
2. Day 1 ends January 3rd. So should we just twiddle our thumbs until then?
3. So you're saying I'm the type of player that scum hide behind while I spam the thread? That implies I'm town, but you still think I'm scummy? I want to hear other people get involved too, that's why I specifically addressed people in my big post, that's why I made stances and reads, because I wanted people to talk. No kidding, a Day 1 post recapping an utterly short RVS stage is not going to be game breaking but it will stimulate discussion. Do you think that's pro town or anti-town?
1. We shouldn't analyze pointless stuff. It doesn't help anyone that you wrote that posts 1-4 are mod related. That could've been omitted and nobody would be affected, This is just an example.
2. Of course not. We should talk, but not everyone is active because of real life stuff. I think it's probably the worst way the deadline could line up, but I think we can manage to do something productive until then.
3. This doesn't affect my read on you. It was just an observation that if you aren't scum, they are letting you spam the thread.
Every post I make allows people a chance to read me and interact with me. If everyone did that, we might actually be able to accomplish something. Are you intentionally stifling conversation?
This really feels like town Terry to me fwiw. I may be biased since I hydra'd with him, but this feels exactly like his D1 in that game before I caught up 20ish hours into the day. We came under pressure for a couple of walls that people pushed on the basis of being "fake" and IIoA. Obviously he could be aware and trying to change his meta, but it strikes me as similar.
@Terry getting a vote in early and riding it through the day can be really valuable for scum. Think back to our Hydra game and how many times they got away with parked votes. Obviously you have moved your vote since, but at the time it's not the best look.
@Cyan what about Vaimes cross vote don't you like? That it exists? Because I thought you had a general scum lean on Terry.
This really feels like town Terry to me fwiw. I may be biased since I hydra'd with him, but this feels exactly like his D1 in that game before I caught up 20ish hours into the day. We came under pressure for a couple of walls that people pushed on the basis of being "fake" and IIoA. Obviously he could be aware and trying to change his meta, but it strikes me as similar.
@Terry getting a vote in early and riding it through the day can be really valuable for scum. Think back to our Hydra game and how many times they got away with parked votes. Obviously you have moved your vote since, but at the time it's not the best look.
@Cyan what about Vaimes cross vote don't you like? That it exists? Because I thought you had a general scum lean on Terry.
I do have a general scum read on Terry. But Vaimes just threw a vote on there without really saying anything about it, while managing to talk about basically everything else.
@Cyan what about Vaimes cross vote don't you like? That it exists? Because I thought you had a general scum lean on Terry.
For what it's worth, that comment alone by Cyan is about the towniest thing he has done today. Just for the fact that he is actually thinking about it.
This really feels like town Terry to me fwiw. I may be biased since I hydra'd with him, but this feels exactly like his D1 in that game before I caught up 20ish hours into the day. We came under pressure for a couple of walls that people pushed on the basis of being "fake" and IIoA. Obviously he could be aware and trying to change his meta, but it strikes me as similar.
@Terry getting a vote in early and riding it through the day can be really valuable for scum. Think back to our Hydra game and how many times they got away with parked votes. Obviously you have moved your vote since, but at the time it's not the best look.
@Cyan what about Vaimes cross vote don't you like? That it exists? Because I thought you had a general scum lean on Terry.
I do have a general scum read on Terry. But Vaimes just threw a vote on there without really saying anything about it, while managing to talk about basically everything else.
Vaimes' 87 is primarily about Terry though. Yes the post with the vote in it largely ignores Terry but preceding it he spends a good deal of time talking about Terry. If you had said it was weird the vote came in the third post I'd kind of buy that argument, it does make it seem like an afterthought to the argument.
@Terry re 77: Agree on KJ, disagree on Dan, agree on Vaimes. At the end of the day I might be more rubbed the wrong way by GJ's play rather than their alignment; Grapefruit put it best in 81.
@Grapefruit re 81: First, because as I've said, all reactions struck me as incorrect, so I attempted to look at each different scenario and see which could match what. Second, vehement disagreement here -- there couldn't possibly be any more information necessary to form a stance on, assuming GJ really meant it; It'd still be one's word against the other.
It was a question. I'll rephrase it: "Hey osie, if it's a lie, why aren't you voting for him?"
"Expecting other people to put in the leg work" is quite a leap, Terry. If I am fundamentally asking osie what his read on GJ is based on a significant event, then I'm not going to Garcia myself by speculating/giving my own read on the players due to said event.
Nevermind giving your read. What did you think about their alignment?
3. My "busywork". Excuse me for trying to stimulate this game a bit and get a set of reads going. At just over 80 hours, this game had a total of 50 posts. Compare that to Zero Escape, which took just over 24 hours. Granted it's a 17 player game, but the corrected time should have been 56.5 hours if it were to keep the same pace. Things are moving slow and now we have something to talk about. We are actually having some meaningful exchanges here. If you actually read the whole post (I know walls can be scary and I usually don't like to do them), you'll see I'm not just recapping posts, I'm interjecting my opinions and what I think that means for alignments. Sure there are a few I just recap, but not every post can be AI. On top of that I put out several reads for everyone to see at the end and discuss what I learned from actually trying.
First off, posting an in depth analysis of the first page and discussing every single post in RVS is not stimulating the game. It's quite literally fluff.
Second, there is a reason why this game is not going as fast as Zero Escape and it's neither the number of players nor the amount of posts. This game started on Christmas when almost everyone doesn't have time for games. Wait for New Year's to pass and you'll see that the game will pick a lot of steam.
Although I still think Terry is scummy I'd like to see more content from the people who haven't really said anything yet, because Terry is exactly the type of player that scum will hide behind and just let him spam the thread.
Could you go more in-depth about your Terry read? It seems to consist of fluffing --or rather, his #58 analysis, which although unnecessarily extensive does contain his thoughts through and at the end after all-- and his first vote, which he claims is RVS albeit you didn't interpret as such. The former feels just like poor reasoning, more like playstyle difference. And the latter you haven't commented on despite him giving a different reason (RVS) than you argued it was.
Not convinced on Terry being scum. Sure he talked- a lot- on 58 when he could've said less, but it wasn't all factual, he made stances at the end and questions throughout, and he did follow up on his notes about the different reactions at least. I feel that making an actual post-by-post-analysis on page 2 is a bit crass for scum, and the reactions to said post reinforce that idea.
I've never seen scum park a vote during RVS as an excuse to keep it there all day. Not even sure how that would work, grapefruit's hydra comment wasn't clarifying.
1. "Knowing the type of player Cyan is", as you implied, I was referring to his aggressive tunneling (like I am already seeing here) and YES, I do think you would try to avoid that as scum by preemptively declaring him town.
2. The clarification on your fill in the blanks is appreciated, but one thing I find scum doing often is asking other players questions to look like they are doing something without actually trying to solve the game and generating their own reads. That's precisely what it looked like you were doing.
3. My "busywork". Excuse me for trying to stimulate this game a bit and get a set of reads going. At just over 80 hours, this game had a total of 50 posts. Compare that to Zero Escape, which took just over 24 hours. Granted it's a 17 player game, but the corrected time should have been 56.5 hours if it were to keep the same pace. Things are moving slow and now we have something to talk about. We are actually having some meaningful exchanges here. If you actually read the whole post (I know walls can be scary and I usually don't like to do them), you'll see I'm not just recapping posts, I'm interjecting my opinions and what I think that means for alignments. Sure there are a few I just recap, but not every post can be AI. On top of that I put out several reads for everyone to see at the end and discuss what I learned from actually trying.
1. Okay. Why do you think that? Because from my point of view, and knowing how I play as scum, I wouldn't want to be on Cyan's radar /at all/ and would think that not flagging his attention in any way (like giving him an early townread) would be the best course of action. He doesn't strike me as the kind of player who takes well to buddying, so I don't really see that working out for me if I'm w and he's v.
2. In most of my towngames, I don't really care about solving the game on D1. Sorry. Traditional townplay isn't for me, and it's not the only way to read a person. If anything, trying to gamesolve is a scumtell for me since it looks superficially towny and it's really easy when there's no hard information.
3. Yes, thank you, I know what a PBPA is. It sounds like you expect to be townread for that post, if anything, which doesn't make me want to townread you for it, so.
@Cyan what about Vaimes cross vote don't you like? That it exists? Because I thought you had a general scum lean on Terry.
For what it's worth, that comment alone by Cyan is about the towniest thing he has done today. Just for the fact that he is actually thinking about it.
"The towniest thing Cyan has done is spend one post thinking about someone else's vote."
It was a question. I'll rephrase it: "Hey osie, if it's a lie, why aren't you voting for him?"
"Expecting other people to put in the leg work" is quite a leap, Terry. If I am fundamentally asking osie what his read on GJ is based on a significant event, then I'm not going to Garcia myself by speculating/giving my own read on the players due to said event.
Nevermind giving your read. What did you think about their alignment?
To be honest, I don't see the difference between giving a read and giving my thoughts on their alignments, but.
My initial reaction was that osie was the scummier of the two, which was already apparent. I'm not sure what it says about GJ though; could be town, could be a really weird distancing attempt (though I kind of doubt it since there's most likely oly two mafia).
@Cyan what about Vaimes cross vote don't you like? That it exists? Because I thought you had a general scum lean on Terry.
For what it's worth, that comment alone by Cyan is about the towniest thing he has done today. Just for the fact that he is actually thinking about it.
I'm trying to read this post from town!Terry's POV and struggling a bit.
He started the game RVS'ing Cyan, which is already a bit ??? considering their spat in Mistborn, but I'll chalk it up to it being a kind of olive branch. Then he calls Cyan aggressive and asks if it's alignment indicative for him or not, apparently holding off on an actual read for the time being. Then he votes for me, with the implication being that Cyan is at least a townlean (since he believes scum!me is trying to charm town!Cyan into leaving me alone).
And then it goes back to his 105 above, where he's like. "Up to this point, I have not been townreading Cyan. But this one thing here is the towniest thing he's done all game."
My problem with his stance here is 1) that post wasn't towny, it was barely anything, and 2) I find it really weird that he's like, trying not to /state/ he's townreading Cyan, it even looks like he's trying to /avoid/ it, but implies that Cyan is townier than not more than once.
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Terry, for the record, Cyan's last scumgame here was the Invitational. Also just as a heads up, I'm not interested in your response to the above post, at least until I get some responses from other players. You can ask me about other things, though.
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Oh, forgot to mention that I found osie's vote pretty opportunistic, considering he swapped me in for two previously stronger scumreads with nothing to actually say on the matter about any of the three of us. I'm surprised no one else called him out on it.
Oh, forgot to mention that I found osie's vote pretty opportunistic, considering he swapped me in for two previously stronger scumreads with nothing to actually say on the matter about any of the three of us. I'm surprised no one else called him out on it.
As I mentioned there, I missed the previous two posts, each of which made me feel slightly better about GJ and Arcthurus, respectively. You were also at meh in my reads already, which is an easy step down to a scumlean. It's page 3 and barely anything of content has happened this game other than GJ's bad gambit. I don't have solid reads yet. Get over it.
@Terry re 77: Agree on KJ, disagree on Dan, agree on Vaimes. At the end of the day I might be more rubbed the wrong way by GJ's play rather than their alignment; Grapefruit put it best in 81.
@Grapefruit re 81: First, because as I've said, all reactions struck me as incorrect, so I attempted to look at each different scenario and see which could match what. Second, vehement disagreement here -- there couldn't possibly be any more information necessary to form a stance on, assuming GJ really meant it; It'd still be one's word against the other.
I mean my reaction was basically a "cool something happened now I want to see them duke it out". I really feel like them interacting more is very pertinent information before taking a stance one way or another.
@Cyan what about Vaimes cross vote don't you like? That it exists? Because I thought you had a general scum lean on Terry.
For what it's worth, that comment alone by Cyan is about the towniest thing he has done today. Just for the fact that he is actually thinking about it.
I'm trying to read this post from town!Terry's POV and struggling a bit.
He started the game RVS'ing Cyan, which is already a bit ??? considering their spat in Mistborn, but I'll chalk it up to it being a kind of olive branch. Then he calls Cyan aggressive and asks if it's alignment indicative for him or not, apparently holding off on an actual read for the time being. Then he votes for me, with the implication being that Cyan is at least a townlean (since he believes scum!me is trying to charm town!Cyan into leaving me alone).
And then it goes back to his 105 above, where he's like. "Up to this point, I have not been townreading Cyan. But this one thing here is the towniest thing he's done all game."
My problem with his stance here is 1) that post wasn't towny, it was barely anything, and 2) I find it really weird that he's like, trying not to /state/ he's townreading Cyan, it even looks like he's trying to /avoid/ it, but implies that Cyan is townier than not more than once.
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I actually agree with Terry on this one. Questioning a vote from a wagon on a person you think is scum shows more of a town mindset than a scum mindset.
It's perfectly reasonable to townread someone and then see a post that reinforces your read.
I really feel like this post is a made-up explanation for Vaimes' vote on Terry after being suspected by Cyan.
Oh, forgot to mention that I found osie's vote pretty opportunistic, considering he swapped me in for two previously stronger scumreads with nothing to actually say on the matter about any of the three of us. I'm surprised no one else called him out on it.
And a classic OMGUS to end the post. And it's even a lie.
This is osierb's vote. He notes that he missed some posts and that he finds he's not as sure on his previous scum reads and he finds Vaimes more scummy.
With this said I'll
Unvote
Vote Vaimes
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1. "Knowing the type of player Cyan is", as you implied, I was referring to his aggressive tunneling (like I am already seeing here) and YES, I do think you would try to avoid that as scum by preemptively declaring him town.
2. The clarification on your fill in the blanks is appreciated, but one thing I find scum doing often is asking other players questions to look like they are doing something without actually trying to solve the game and generating their own reads. That's precisely what it looked like you were doing.
3. My "busywork". Excuse me for trying to stimulate this game a bit and get a set of reads going. At just over 80 hours, this game had a total of 50 posts. Compare that to Zero Escape, which took just over 24 hours. Granted it's a 17 player game, but the corrected time should have been 56.5 hours if it were to keep the same pace. Things are moving slow and now we have something to talk about. We are actually having some meaningful exchanges here. If you actually read the whole post (I know walls can be scary and I usually don't like to do them), you'll see I'm not just recapping posts, I'm interjecting my opinions and what I think that means for alignments. Sure there are a few I just recap, but not every post can be AI. On top of that I put out several reads for everyone to see at the end and discuss what I learned from actually trying.
1. Okay. Why do you think that? Because from my point of view, and knowing how I play as scum, I wouldn't want to be on Cyan's radar /at all/ and would think that not flagging his attention in any way (like giving him an early townread) would be the best course of action. He doesn't strike me as the kind of player who takes well to buddying, so I don't really see that working out for me if I'm w and he's v.
2. In most of my towngames, I don't really care about solving the game on D1. Sorry. Traditional townplay isn't for me, and it's not the only way to read a person. If anything, trying to gamesolve is a scumtell for me since it looks superficially towny and it's really easy when there's no hard information.
3. Yes, thank you, I know what a PBPA is. It sounds like you expect to be townread for that post, if anything, which doesn't make me want to townread you for it, so.
@Cyan what about Vaimes cross vote don't you like? That it exists? Because I thought you had a general scum lean on Terry.
For what it's worth, that comment alone by Cyan is about the towniest thing he has done today. Just for the fact that he is actually thinking about it.
"The towniest thing Cyan has done is spend one post thinking about someone else's vote."
It was a question. I'll rephrase it: "Hey osie, if it's a lie, why aren't you voting for him?"
"Expecting other people to put in the leg work" is quite a leap, Terry. If I am fundamentally asking osie what his read on GJ is based on a significant event, then I'm not going to Garcia myself by speculating/giving my own read on the players due to said event.
Nevermind giving your read. What did you think about their alignment?
To be honest, I don't see the difference between giving a read and giving my thoughts on their alignments, but.
My initial reaction was that osie was the scummier of the two, which was already apparent. I'm not sure what it says about GJ though; could be town, could be a really weird distancing attempt (though I kind of doubt it since there's most likely oly two mafia).
From my point of view, the Jedi are evil.
Who have you played with here before?
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What kinds of answer were you expecting? How could they affect your read?
@Terry re 77: Agree on KJ, disagree on Dan, agree on Vaimes. At the end of the day I might be more rubbed the wrong way by GJ's play rather than their alignment; Grapefruit put it best in 81.
@Grapefruit re 81: First, because as I've said, all reactions struck me as incorrect, so I attempted to look at each different scenario and see which could match what. Second, vehement disagreement here -- there couldn't possibly be any more information necessary to form a stance on, assuming GJ really meant it; It'd still be one's word against the other.
I mean my reaction was basically a "cool something happened now I want to see them duke it out". I really feel like them interacting more is very pertinent information before taking a stance one way or another.
How so? What were you waiting for?
You have a disagreement with me in regards to the reactions, so you must disagree with me arriving at the mentioned conclusion (Osieb vs. GJ, when the accusation is sustained, always means Osieb is scum). What were the possibilities in your mind then?
Scum always knows, ahead of time, GJ is lying, wether he's scum or not. If he's scum, it specially makes sense not to get involved. If he's town, you know it's a test, so you either take the chance to distance or again try to not get involved. Hence why I concluded the reactions were so underwhelming.
I understood it as terry saying it was the towniest thing, not the only townie thing, about Cyan.
Oh, forgot to mention that I found osie's vote pretty opportunistic, considering he swapped me in for two previously stronger scumreads with nothing to actually say on the matter about any of the three of us. I'm surprised no one else called him out on it.
As I mentioned there, I missed the previous two posts, each of which made me feel slightly better about GJ and Arcthurus, respectively. You were also at meh in my reads already, which is an easy step down to a scumlean. It's page 3 and barely anything of content has happened this game other than GJ's bad gambit. I don't have solid reads yet. Get over it.
You had other "meh" reads, why Vaimes specifically over Vezok/Cyan?
Do you not think I'm going to ask why they made you feel better, or what.
Sure. Terry had a good point on GJ that the gambit was more likely town that I hadn't thought out well enough. Arcthurus' post seemed more likely to come from town than scum in terms of distinctions...
Oh, forgot to mention that I found osie's vote pretty opportunistic, considering he swapped me in for two previously stronger scumreads with nothing to actually say on the matter about any of the three of us. I'm surprised no one else called him out on it.
As I mentioned there, I missed the previous two posts, each of which made me feel slightly better about GJ and Arcthurus, respectively. You were also at meh in my reads already, which is an easy step down to a scumlean. It's page 3 and barely anything of content has happened this game other than GJ's bad gambit. I don't have solid reads yet. Get over it.
You had other "meh" reads, why Vaimes specifically over Vezok/Cyan?
Just made the most sense at this point, and I'm not as focused on world-building yet. Vezok is actually looking pretty good, and Cyan is very unclear.
@Vaimes
It is true that Terry hasn't necessarily called Cyan town. He's implied so a couple of times by comparing his play here with their past game together, though. Frankly not sure what you think their scum intentions here are. Cyan is being townread by most, so the easy thing to do here would be to join the club instead of leaving open the window for a backtrack.
He made a good point, like Vezok said, about cyan. It's detrimental for scum to observe their wagon or at least it's more likely from town; a point (slighty) undermined by the reservation with your vote being rooted in ignorance.
@Vezok
I do think his point on Osieb is valid, since as osieb said himself he changed his mind on me and gj on missed posts but didnt state why the vaimes change (hence my question above).
I don't like the rest of his reasoning though, I agree with you.
Oh, forgot to mention that I found osie's vote pretty opportunistic, considering he swapped me in for two previously stronger scumreads with nothing to actually say on the matter about any of the three of us. I'm surprised no one else called him out on it.
As I mentioned there, I missed the previous two posts, each of which made me feel slightly better about GJ and Arcthurus, respectively. You were also at meh in my reads already, which is an easy step down to a scumlean. It's page 3 and barely anything of content has happened this game other than GJ's bad gambit. I don't have solid reads yet. Get over it.
You had other "meh" reads, why Vaimes specifically over Vezok/Cyan?
Just made the most sense at this point, and I'm not as focused on world-building yet. Vezok is actually looking pretty good, and Cyan is very unclear.
Oh, forgot to mention that I found osie's vote pretty opportunistic, considering he swapped me in for two previously stronger scumreads with nothing to actually say on the matter about any of the three of us. I'm surprised no one else called him out on it.
As I mentioned there, I missed the previous two posts, each of which made me feel slightly better about GJ and Arcthurus, respectively. You were also at meh in my reads already, which is an easy step down to a scumlean. It's page 3 and barely anything of content has happened this game other than GJ's bad gambit. I don't have solid reads yet. Get over it.
You had other "meh" reads, why Vaimes specifically over Vezok/Cyan?
Just made the most sense at this point, and I'm not as focused on world-building yet. Vezok is actually looking pretty good, and Cyan is very unclear.
I've been ninja'd again somehow...
Okay, thanks.
What do you mean by world-building?
I'm thinking of people who individually look scummy rather than who would make most sense as a team.
You were scumreading him? Why is that? I thought you voted him due to him being the closest thing to scum because he was a null to you, or at least that's what I got from 113.
You were scumreading him? Why is that? I thought you voted him due to him being the closest thing to scum because he was a null to you, or at least that's what I got from 113.
#25 + #36, then radio silence, then not really answering beyond "Here's some things that MIGHT be towntells, and I'm agreeing with the general consensus because it's popular."
@Cyan what about Vaimes cross vote don't you like? That it exists? Because I thought you had a general scum lean on Terry.
For what it's worth, that comment alone by Cyan is about the towniest thing he has done today. Just for the fact that he is actually thinking about it.
I'm trying to read this post from town!Terry's POV and struggling a bit.
He started the game RVS'ing Cyan, which is already a bit ??? considering their spat in Mistborn, but I'll chalk it up to it being a kind of olive branch. Then he calls Cyan aggressive and asks if it's alignment indicative for him or not, apparently holding off on an actual read for the time being. Then he votes for me, with the implication being that Cyan is at least a townlean (since he believes scum!me is trying to charm town!Cyan into leaving me alone).
And then it goes back to his 105 above, where he's like. "Up to this point, I have not been townreading Cyan. But this one thing here is the towniest thing he's done all game."
My problem with his stance here is 1) that post wasn't towny, it was barely anything, and 2) I find it really weird that he's like, trying not to /state/ he's townreading Cyan, it even looks like he's trying to /avoid/ it, but implies that Cyan is townier than not more than once.
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Terry, for the record, Cyan's last scumgame here was the Invitational. Also just as a heads up, I'm not interested in your response to the above post, at least until I get some responses from other players. You can ask me about other things, though.
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Oh, forgot to mention that I found osie's vote pretty opportunistic, considering he swapped me in for two previously stronger scumreads with nothing to actually say on the matter about any of the three of us. I'm surprised no one else called him out on it.
The tone of this post feels so bad. It honestly reads like Vaimes is trying to convince us of something that he knows is not true.
I think you completely missed the point where, from my POV, it looked like Terry was trying to avoid townreading Cyan. I read his 105 as snarky, if it's from a town POV.
And wrt your "And a classic OMGUS to end the post. And it's even a lie": 1) retire the idea that OMGUS is scum-indicative, 2) it wasn't even OMGUS, and 3) osie's post where he goes "xyz less scummy, vaimes more scummy" is in no world an explanation, so what exactly am I lying about?
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@Arc
I've played with Cyan, Terry, GJ, osie, Killjoy, and Grapefruit.
If it's really important to you I'll answer the "what would you think if they had answered x" later, but honestly I don't really care for those kinds of questions and am not in the mood to juggle a bunch of different scenarios right now. Maybe tomorrow, maybe Monday.
@Vaimes
It is true that Terry hasn't necessarily called Cyan town. He's implied so a couple of times by comparing his play here with their past game together, though. Frankly not sure what you think their scum intentions here are. Cyan is being townread by most, so the easy thing to do here would be to join the club instead of leaving open the window for a backtrack.
He made a good point, like Vezok said, about cyan. It's detrimental for scum to observe their wagon or at least it's more likely from town; a point (slighty) undermined by the reservation with your vote being rooted in ignorance.
I don't think about scum intentions. In my experience, they're willing to do a lot of weird things to avoid being lynched/scumread, so it's easier to look at something as "is this a townie doing xyz or nah."
I think it was an easy point, but not necessarily a good one. But apparently there's so much blowback here that I'm probably wrong, so I'll just let it go.
I kinda had a *****ty day at work and don't feel like mafia-ing, plus New Years events, so I'll be back Monday. I'll only pop in to answer time-sensitive questions, but otherwise I'm V/LA.
I return. Please let me know if I've missed anything pressing or that I was directly asked, as I got to this thread much later in the evening than I was intending.
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@GJ What does "TBD your vote" mean in 51? Also, have you learned enough since 61 to go into further detail?
@Cyan Will you explain your unvote in 54 and why you dislike Vaimes' vote on Terry (99)? Does your false-narrative read of Vaimes have anything to do (from 112) with this?
@Terry Vezok has a habit of making scummy, self-aware looking posts as both alignments. Also, he (IIRC) did lack some attention to detail in the past. Cyan is aggressive as either alignment, and has a knack for seeing through gambits. I am somewhat surprised he hasn't really put more of his thoughts into the thread regarding the GJ gambit.
@Grapefruit I think that Osie's reaction to the situation isn't necesarily town. I think either alignment is obligated to say something to that extent. Do you think that Vaimes' lack of a more thorough response to the GJ gambit could be indicative of alignment? If so, which, and if not, why?
@Arc Arc my response was trying to figure out if GJ received this in the character limited memo during the day, or in their neighbor QT in night 0. It’d speak to whether the scum have daychat, and I’d think that using the QT would be fairly damning. But why do none of the reactions make sense? Do you not see either town or scum logic behind anyone (Vaimes’ in particular, although I think wanting to collect more information before coming to a determination is town behavior)?
@Vaimes Can you reconcile a slight scumread on Terry leading to both a slight townread on Vezok and a vote on Terry a couple posts later?
@all Terry’s OOG/appeal to emotion rubs me the wrong way in 94 & 95. Maybe this is just his personality/posting style? Can anyone confirm/deny this?
---
I agree with Cyan's read of Vaimes' post on 112. The Cyan post in question is towny in that it demonstrates critical thinking without jumping to a rash conclusion. It also, clearly, has garnered reactions by leaving the rest of the group in curiosity, considering Cyan typically is a pitbull on such matters (finding something he dislikes and burying the individual until they have provided sufficient reactions).
Osie’s posts are generally lacking to me. I feel like there should both be more detail put into his posts trying to explain his mindset, considering he is under fairly decent pressure this early (I also disagree with the idea that we have very little information in the game for how early we are), and trying to create more of your own original thoughts as opposed to simply agreeing or acknowledging others without creating lines of interrogation/discussion (64, 69, 72, 123)
I generally like Arcturus’ mindset in approaching the game, and the questions he’s asking seem to largely be of a town mindset. I will agree that Terry’s recap seemed a bit premature, but I can see town motivations for trying to catalyze a thread with a short deadline while putting his thoughts out in the open. Vaimes is confusing me, posing strong questions while also throwing up red flags in a number of places. I think Grapefruit is providing the right answers to the questions he’s being asked.
In order:
Me
Grapefruit
Arcturus
Vezok
Cyan
Killjoy
GJ
Vaimes
Terry
@Dan I think it's a town reaction from Osie because I think Scum!Osie is more likely to play along knowing it's a reaction test and less likely to immeadiately OMGUS due to the extra information that GJ would be town. Town Osie in the dark about GJ's alignment is much more likely to hammer back with force like we saw happen.
On Vaimes I had the opposite reaction to most of the thread and liked his "This says ______ about his alignment because_______" reply. I thought it was townie in the same variant of my wait and see post. It seemed to me trying to get GJ and Osie to interact more so it was easier to sort them out. Given the amount of people with opposite impression on Vaimes I need to reevaluate but I liked it on first impression.
On Terry that feels NAI for him. It fits his personality as far as I know.
I return. Please let me know if I've missed anything pressing or that I was directly asked, as I got to this thread much later in the evening than I was intending.
---
@GJ What does "TBD your vote" mean in 51? Also, have you learned enough since 61 to go into further detail?
@Cyan Will you explain your unvote in 54 and why you dislike Vaimes' vote on Terry (99)? Does your false-narrative read of Vaimes have anything to do (from 112) with this?
@Terry Vezok has a habit of making scummy, self-aware looking posts as both alignments. Also, he (IIRC) did lack some attention to detail in the past. Cyan is aggressive as either alignment, and has a knack for seeing through gambits. I am somewhat surprised he hasn't really put more of his thoughts into the thread regarding the GJ gambit.
@Grapefruit I think that Osie's reaction to the situation isn't necesarily town. I think either alignment is obligated to say something to that extent. Do you think that Vaimes' lack of a more thorough response to the GJ gambit could be indicative of alignment? If so, which, and if not, why?
@Arc Arc my response was trying to figure out if GJ received this in the character limited memo during the day, or in their neighbor QT in night 0. It’d speak to whether the scum have daychat, and I’d think that using the QT would be fairly damning. But why do none of the reactions make sense? Do you not see either town or scum logic behind anyone (Vaimes’ in particular, although I think wanting to collect more information before coming to a determination is town behavior)?
@Vaimes Can you reconcile a slight scumread on Terry leading to both a slight townread on Vezok and a vote on Terry a couple posts later?
@all Terry’s OOG/appeal to emotion rubs me the wrong way in 94 & 95. Maybe this is just his personality/posting style? Can anyone confirm/deny this?
---
I agree with Cyan's read of Vaimes' post on 112. The Cyan post in question is towny in that it demonstrates critical thinking without jumping to a rash conclusion. It also, clearly, has garnered reactions by leaving the rest of the group in curiosity, considering Cyan typically is a pitbull on such matters (finding something he dislikes and burying the individual until they have provided sufficient reactions).
Osie’s posts are generally lacking to me. I feel like there should both be more detail put into his posts trying to explain his mindset, considering he is under fairly decent pressure this early (I also disagree with the idea that we have very little information in the game for how early we are), and trying to create more of your own original thoughts as opposed to simply agreeing or acknowledging others without creating lines of interrogation/discussion (64, 69, 72, 123)
I generally like Arcturus’ mindset in approaching the game, and the questions he’s asking seem to largely be of a town mindset. I will agree that Terry’s recap seemed a bit premature, but I can see town motivations for trying to catalyze a thread with a short deadline while putting his thoughts out in the open. Vaimes is confusing me, posing strong questions while also throwing up red flags in a number of places. I think Grapefruit is providing the right answers to the questions he’s being asked.
In order:
Me
Grapefruit
Arcturus
Vezok
Cyan
Killjoy
GJ
Vaimes
Terry
I'd like to start here: Vote: Osieorb18
That's true, it'd clarify if scum have daychat. That makes it a fair question. Although it still isn't information that prevents a conclusion, which I reiterate was my problem with reactions and I've already talked about them. I absolutely agree the more information first the merrier, but I can't think of any information (other than what happened: "it's a test!") or interaction that could change your read either way.
Literally everybody either ignored this point I made or disagreed so idk.
Not buying Terry or Vaimes as scum here. And Osie gets pressured every game. Every single one.
Vote: Arcthurus
I'm not in love with the fact that he's not voting. I'm not loving the way he's been trying to control the discussion around GJ's reaction test. The idea of a wrong reaction and 4 different reactions being wrong just doesn't strike me as town thinking. It's smearing multiple people while not taking a stance on any of them. And I hate his idea that there wasn't more information to be gleaned by waiting for GJ and Osie to interact. That goes against every instinct I have.
You haven't really explained your instincts, even though I've asked you to. I'm not "controlling" the discussion about the reactions, I've been uncontested because literally no one gave a good counterargument (which I explicitly asked people to do), they just said waiting made sense "because reasons". You're free to expand on that, as you have since my first post on the subject.
I don't feel strongly about anyone being scum here hence I haven't put a vote down.
I think Dan's question was a fair one now that he explained it, even if I'm bothered by what I said before. I feel better about his reaction now though.
Osieb's reaction I believe was townie now that he followed up, I was hesitant to conclude this at first since it relied on an implication but his reveal of the test make sense if he thought GJ was scum as he said. Scum would have no reason to be aggressive if they knew it was a test. The lack of read depth is annoying but that's probably just how he is.
Vaimes' explanation of his question bothers me. He's played with Osie before, so he should know by now his stance on OMGUS-voting, so the answer should be self-evident. Even if he somehow didn't know this, the question was allegedly made to further his read on osieb but he didn't give an example of how that'd work upon me asking, which sounds like questioning for the sake of it.
"I don't think about scum intentions" makes no sense either for a town mindset. How could you discern a VI from scum then?
In the same vein, he uses scum intentions when talking to terry to explain why he isn't scum himself, which is contradictory.
oh yeah
Cyan ignoring the accusation might stem from the same inattentiveness he's displayed earlier but I'm confused still on how you could miss that. Don't feel like it's worth pursuing this though.
KJ's I already commented on, didn't like it. No further posts from them = no change on this.
I might just be hitting a playstyle barrier with Grapefruit here. I feel it's counterintuitive though, in the realm where you think "wait and see" is ideal, you don't pose any kind of question which'd support a read either way.
Reactions aside, I like Terry. Vezok I'm not sure on, I disagree with most of what he's said aside from the first half of 118.
The lack of read depth is annoying but that's probably just how he is.
I've been a bit busy, but I'm going to give a more thorough analysis of the game so far by at least 24 hours before deadline. Traveling from CA to NY on the night of the 1st, but I'll certainly have a chance at some point.
@Arc you literally just discussed how getting further explanation from Osie informed your read but you don't think wait and see is a valid response?
Quote from Arcthurus »
Osieb's reaction I believe was townie now that he followed up, I was hesitant to conclude this at first since it relied on an implication but his reveal of the test make sense if he thought GJ was scum as he said. Scum would have no reason to be aggressive if they knew it was a test
I didn't pose a question because Vaimes pressing Osie to explain himself further was what I was interested in. And for GJ to post again. I didn't pose a question because they'd already been asked. By osie calling GJ a liar and Vaimes asking Osie to expand his read.
Also you say:
Quote from Arcthurus »
I don't feel strongly about anyone being scum here hence I haven't put a vote down.
and then spend a ton of time explaining why you're scum reading Vaimes. So I'm not sure that adds up.
Like- literally no information other than "it's a test" should change your opinion there no matter what osieb said. That's not the case anymore because that event is over with.
Like- literally no information other than "it's a test" should change your opinion there no matter what osieb said. That's not the case anymore because that event is over with.
You haven't answered what I asked you to.
Happy new year everybody!
I honestly don't know what question you're referring to.
But GJ could be running a crazy 1 for 1 gambit (despite that being exceedingly unlikely) and I wanted to wait and see how their behavior continued to shake out. I don't know why you're so certain that opinions should be set the second Osie makes their first post after the accusation. It just doesn't make sense to me. I wanted to wait and see because scum almost never 1 for 1 early. But sometimes they do.
And on Vaimes I guess I read more into 125 than I should have. I had taken that as an accusatory post.
Hey all, just jumping in to post a friendly reminder that while multiposting rules are relaxed in Mafia, they still exist. Multiposts will be merged if they become excessive. The line is generally drawn at 2-3 being ok. This rule doesn't apply if it's been several hours and no one else has posted.
I'm torn on GJ's gambit. A big part of me thinks that it's a risky gambit for scum that draws attention to him. Thunderdoming so early risks people thinking him scum, or if we eventually lynch Osie, people looking back on it and saying "Hey look at this inteeraction with the confirmed town. GJ looks scummy here." This obviously assumes scum!GJ/town Osie.
The other, smaller part of me is saying that "Hey, GJ is making effort D1. I'm confused. What does it mean?"
I don't have enough knowledge/care enough about meta to let the smaller part have too much effect here. GJ is PROBABLY likely town for it.
I dislike Arc's analysis of the gambit in 68 because everything he points out is partially negative. He does point out that he's saying that these reactions 'feel wrong' but the lack of attempted objective analysis doesn't feel natural here for someone who's looking for scum.
That said, that post is the only post I've really disliked by him. And he has a lot of posts, which is usually a good thing.
Question: @Arc: What reactions did you expect? You seem to have expected specific reactions there.
Terry hasn't made a huge impression on me yet, although he also has a lot of posts. So I'll throw him in lean town.
Osie also hasn't left me thinking anything specific. Which is notably weird.I always have some sort of opinion on Osie. I'm going to reread him later tonight to see why that is.
Everyone else currently null. I really need to recatch up after the past couple weeks of crazy work weeks.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Osie also hasn't left me thinking anything specific. Which is notably weird.I always have some sort of opinion on Osie. I'm going to reread him later tonight to see why that is.
You mean you always have the same, wrong opinion on me?
I've been lower than usual activity for a variety of reasons. That will change, though. I have the file for note taking ready on my computer for something more than preliminary reads.
@Shadow: Would it be appropriate to grant us an extension for today? It seems like so many people were VLA over the holidays it might be nice to have until Friday to wrap up day 1.
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1. We shouldn't analyze pointless stuff. It doesn't help anyone that you wrote that posts 1-4 are mod related. That could've been omitted and nobody would be affected, This is just an example.
2. Of course not. We should talk, but not everyone is active because of real life stuff. I think it's probably the worst way the deadline could line up, but I think we can manage to do something productive until then.
3. This doesn't affect my read on you. It was just an observation that if you aren't scum, they are letting you spam the thread.
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@Terry getting a vote in early and riding it through the day can be really valuable for scum. Think back to our Hydra game and how many times they got away with parked votes. Obviously you have moved your vote since, but at the time it's not the best look.
@Cyan what about Vaimes cross vote don't you like? That it exists? Because I thought you had a general scum lean on Terry.
I do have a general scum read on Terry. But Vaimes just threw a vote on there without really saying anything about it, while managing to talk about basically everything else.
Vaimes' 87 is primarily about Terry though. Yes the post with the vote in it largely ignores Terry but preceding it he spends a good deal of time talking about Terry. If you had said it was weird the vote came in the third post I'd kind of buy that argument, it does make it seem like an afterthought to the argument.
@Grapefruit re 81: First, because as I've said, all reactions struck me as incorrect, so I attempted to look at each different scenario and see which could match what. Second, vehement disagreement here -- there couldn't possibly be any more information necessary to form a stance on, assuming GJ really meant it; It'd still be one's word against the other.
Nevermind giving your read. What did you think about their alignment?
Could you go more in-depth about your Terry read? It seems to consist of fluffing --or rather, his #58 analysis, which although unnecessarily extensive does contain his thoughts through and at the end after all-- and his first vote, which he claims is RVS albeit you didn't interpret as such. The former feels just like poor reasoning, more like playstyle difference. And the latter you haven't commented on despite him giving a different reason (RVS) than you argued it was.
I've never seen scum park a vote during RVS as an excuse to keep it there all day. Not even sure how that would work, grapefruit's hydra comment wasn't clarifying.
2. In most of my towngames, I don't really care about solving the game on D1. Sorry. Traditional townplay isn't for me, and it's not the only way to read a person. If anything, trying to gamesolve is a scumtell for me since it looks superficially towny and it's really easy when there's no hard information.
3. Yes, thank you, I know what a PBPA is. It sounds like you expect to be townread for that post, if anything, which doesn't make me want to townread you for it, so.
---
If vezo is scum then I am p o c k e t e d.
---
"The towniest thing Cyan has done is spend one post thinking about someone else's vote."
???
To be honest, I don't see the difference between giving a read and giving my thoughts on their alignments, but.
My initial reaction was that osie was the scummier of the two, which was already apparent. I'm not sure what it says about GJ though; could be town, could be a really weird distancing attempt (though I kind of doubt it since there's most likely oly two mafia).
He started the game RVS'ing Cyan, which is already a bit ??? considering their spat in Mistborn, but I'll chalk it up to it being a kind of olive branch. Then he calls Cyan aggressive and asks if it's alignment indicative for him or not, apparently holding off on an actual read for the time being. Then he votes for me, with the implication being that Cyan is at least a townlean (since he believes scum!me is trying to charm town!Cyan into leaving me alone).
And then it goes back to his 105 above, where he's like. "Up to this point, I have not been townreading Cyan. But this one thing here is the towniest thing he's done all game."
My problem with his stance here is 1) that post wasn't towny, it was barely anything, and 2) I find it really weird that he's like, trying not to /state/ he's townreading Cyan, it even looks like he's trying to /avoid/ it, but implies that Cyan is townier than not more than once.
---
Terry, for the record, Cyan's last scumgame here was the Invitational. Also just as a heads up, I'm not interested in your response to the above post, at least until I get some responses from other players. You can ask me about other things, though.
---
Oh, forgot to mention that I found osie's vote pretty opportunistic, considering he swapped me in for two previously stronger scumreads with nothing to actually say on the matter about any of the three of us. I'm surprised no one else called him out on it.
As I mentioned there, I missed the previous two posts, each of which made me feel slightly better about GJ and Arcthurus, respectively. You were also at meh in my reads already, which is an easy step down to a scumlean. It's page 3 and barely anything of content has happened this game other than GJ's bad gambit. I don't have solid reads yet. Get over it.
I mean my reaction was basically a "cool something happened now I want to see them duke it out". I really feel like them interacting more is very pertinent information before taking a stance one way or another.
I actually agree with Terry on this one. Questioning a vote from a wagon on a person you think is scum shows more of a town mindset than a scum mindset.
It's perfectly reasonable to townread someone and then see a post that reinforces your read.
I really feel like this post is a made-up explanation for Vaimes' vote on Terry after being suspected by Cyan.
And a classic OMGUS to end the post. And it's even a lie.
This is osierb's vote. He notes that he missed some posts and that he finds he's not as sure on his previous scum reads and he finds Vaimes more scummy.
With this said I'll
Unvote
Vote Vaimes
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From my point of view, the Jedi are evil.
Who have you played with here before?
---
What kinds of answer were you expecting? How could they affect your read?
How so? What were you waiting for?
You have a disagreement with me in regards to the reactions, so you must disagree with me arriving at the mentioned conclusion (Osieb vs. GJ, when the accusation is sustained, always means Osieb is scum). What were the possibilities in your mind then?
Scum always knows, ahead of time, GJ is lying, wether he's scum or not. If he's scum, it specially makes sense not to get involved. If he's town, you know it's a test, so you either take the chance to distance or again try to not get involved. Hence why I concluded the reactions were so underwhelming.
I understood it as terry saying it was the towniest thing, not the only townie thing, about Cyan.
You had other "meh" reads, why Vaimes specifically over Vezok/Cyan?
Sure. Terry had a good point on GJ that the gambit was more likely town that I hadn't thought out well enough. Arcthurus' post seemed more likely to come from town than scum in terms of distinctions...
Okay, maybe you weren't clear enough.
Just made the most sense at this point, and I'm not as focused on world-building yet. Vezok is actually looking pretty good, and Cyan is very unclear.
It is true that Terry hasn't necessarily called Cyan town. He's implied so a couple of times by comparing his play here with their past game together, though. Frankly not sure what you think their scum intentions here are. Cyan is being townread by most, so the easy thing to do here would be to join the club instead of leaving open the window for a backtrack.
He made a good point, like Vezok said, about cyan. It's detrimental for scum to observe their wagon or at least it's more likely from town; a point (slighty) undermined by the reservation with your vote being rooted in ignorance.
@Vezok
I do think his point on Osieb is valid, since as osieb said himself he changed his mind on me and gj on missed posts but didnt state why the vaimes change (hence my question above).
I don't like the rest of his reasoning though, I agree with you.
(Also i asked you a question earlier btw)
I've been ninja'd again somehow...
Okay, thanks.
What do you mean by world-building?
I'm thinking of people who individually look scummy rather than who would make most sense as a team.
#25 + #36, then radio silence, then not really answering beyond "Here's some things that MIGHT be towntells, and I'm agreeing with the general consensus because it's popular."
The tone of this post feels so bad. It honestly reads like Vaimes is trying to convince us of something that he knows is not true.
Unvote, Vote Vaimes
So I'm not gonna do it!
---
@vezo
I think you completely missed the point where, from my POV, it looked like Terry was trying to avoid townreading Cyan. I read his 105 as snarky, if it's from a town POV.
And wrt your "And a classic OMGUS to end the post. And it's even a lie": 1) retire the idea that OMGUS is scum-indicative, 2) it wasn't even OMGUS, and 3) osie's post where he goes "xyz less scummy, vaimes more scummy" is in no world an explanation, so what exactly am I lying about?
---
@Arc
I've played with Cyan, Terry, GJ, osie, Killjoy, and Grapefruit.
If it's really important to you I'll answer the "what would you think if they had answered x" later, but honestly I don't really care for those kinds of questions and am not in the mood to juggle a bunch of different scenarios right now. Maybe tomorrow, maybe Monday.
Okay. That wasn't what I got out of it, but it's possible I misinterpreted the post.
I don't think about scum intentions. In my experience, they're willing to do a lot of weird things to avoid being lynched/scumread, so it's easier to look at something as "is this a townie doing xyz or nah."
I think it was an easy point, but not necessarily a good one. But apparently there's so much blowback here that I'm probably wrong, so I'll just let it go.
Can you do me a favor and, in your own words, explain what exactly I'm trying to convince everyone of that isn't true?
---
@GJ What does "TBD your vote" mean in 51? Also, have you learned enough since 61 to go into further detail?
@Cyan Will you explain your unvote in 54 and why you dislike Vaimes' vote on Terry (99)? Does your false-narrative read of Vaimes have anything to do (from 112) with this?
@Terry Vezok has a habit of making scummy, self-aware looking posts as both alignments. Also, he (IIRC) did lack some attention to detail in the past. Cyan is aggressive as either alignment, and has a knack for seeing through gambits. I am somewhat surprised he hasn't really put more of his thoughts into the thread regarding the GJ gambit.
@Grapefruit I think that Osie's reaction to the situation isn't necesarily town. I think either alignment is obligated to say something to that extent. Do you think that Vaimes' lack of a more thorough response to the GJ gambit could be indicative of alignment? If so, which, and if not, why?
@Arc Arc my response was trying to figure out if GJ received this in the character limited memo during the day, or in their neighbor QT in night 0. It’d speak to whether the scum have daychat, and I’d think that using the QT would be fairly damning. But why do none of the reactions make sense? Do you not see either town or scum logic behind anyone (Vaimes’ in particular, although I think wanting to collect more information before coming to a determination is town behavior)?
@Vaimes Can you reconcile a slight scumread on Terry leading to both a slight townread on Vezok and a vote on Terry a couple posts later?
@all Terry’s OOG/appeal to emotion rubs me the wrong way in 94 & 95. Maybe this is just his personality/posting style? Can anyone confirm/deny this?
---
I agree with Cyan's read of Vaimes' post on 112. The Cyan post in question is towny in that it demonstrates critical thinking without jumping to a rash conclusion. It also, clearly, has garnered reactions by leaving the rest of the group in curiosity, considering Cyan typically is a pitbull on such matters (finding something he dislikes and burying the individual until they have provided sufficient reactions).
Osie’s posts are generally lacking to me. I feel like there should both be more detail put into his posts trying to explain his mindset, considering he is under fairly decent pressure this early (I also disagree with the idea that we have very little information in the game for how early we are), and trying to create more of your own original thoughts as opposed to simply agreeing or acknowledging others without creating lines of interrogation/discussion (64, 69, 72, 123)
I generally like Arcturus’ mindset in approaching the game, and the questions he’s asking seem to largely be of a town mindset. I will agree that Terry’s recap seemed a bit premature, but I can see town motivations for trying to catalyze a thread with a short deadline while putting his thoughts out in the open. Vaimes is confusing me, posing strong questions while also throwing up red flags in a number of places. I think Grapefruit is providing the right answers to the questions he’s being asked.
In order:
Me
Grapefruit
Arcturus
Vezok
Cyan
Killjoy
GJ
Vaimes
Terry
I'd like to start here:
Vote: Osieorb18
On Vaimes I had the opposite reaction to most of the thread and liked his "This says ______ about his alignment because_______" reply. I thought it was townie in the same variant of my wait and see post. It seemed to me trying to get GJ and Osie to interact more so it was easier to sort them out. Given the amount of people with opposite impression on Vaimes I need to reevaluate but I liked it on first impression.
On Terry that feels NAI for him. It fits his personality as far as I know.
That's true, it'd clarify if scum have daychat. That makes it a fair question. Although it still isn't information that prevents a conclusion, which I reiterate was my problem with reactions and I've already talked about them. I absolutely agree the more information first the merrier, but I can't think of any information (other than what happened: "it's a test!") or interaction that could change your read either way.
Literally everybody either ignored this point I made or disagreed so idk.
ganderin_dan -(1)- Killjoy
Cyan -(1)- Grapefruit21
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry -(1)- Vaimes
Osieorb18 -(2)- Gentleman Johnny, ganderin_dan
Vaimes -(4)- TheRealStinkyJoeTerry, Osieorb18, vezokpiraka, Cyan
Not Voting -(1)- Arcthurus
Lynch threshold is 6 votes.
Day 1 ends at 2359 Eastern Time on Wednesday 3 January 2018
Vaimes is V/LA until Monday
Gentleman Johnny and Killjoy are being prodded
@grapefruit: Why is your vote still on Cyan?
It's New Year's eve so I probably won't post for 36 hours
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Not buying Terry or Vaimes as scum here. And Osie gets pressured every game. Every single one.
Vote: Arcthurus
I'm not in love with the fact that he's not voting. I'm not loving the way he's been trying to control the discussion around GJ's reaction test. The idea of a wrong reaction and 4 different reactions being wrong just doesn't strike me as town thinking. It's smearing multiple people while not taking a stance on any of them. And I hate his idea that there wasn't more information to be gleaned by waiting for GJ and Osie to interact. That goes against every instinct I have.
I don't feel strongly about anyone being scum here hence I haven't put a vote down.
I think Dan's question was a fair one now that he explained it, even if I'm bothered by what I said before. I feel better about his reaction now though.
Osieb's reaction I believe was townie now that he followed up, I was hesitant to conclude this at first since it relied on an implication but his reveal of the test make sense if he thought GJ was scum as he said. Scum would have no reason to be aggressive if they knew it was a test. The lack of read depth is annoying but that's probably just how he is.
Vaimes' explanation of his question bothers me. He's played with Osie before, so he should know by now his stance on OMGUS-voting, so the answer should be self-evident. Even if he somehow didn't know this, the question was allegedly made to further his read on osieb but he didn't give an example of how that'd work upon me asking, which sounds like questioning for the sake of it.
"I don't think about scum intentions" makes no sense either for a town mindset. How could you discern a VI from scum then?
In the same vein, he uses scum intentions when talking to terry to explain why he isn't scum himself, which is contradictory.
oh yeah
Cyan ignoring the accusation might stem from the same inattentiveness he's displayed earlier but I'm confused still on how you could miss that. Don't feel like it's worth pursuing this though.
KJ's I already commented on, didn't like it. No further posts from them = no change on this.
I might just be hitting a playstyle barrier with Grapefruit here. I feel it's counterintuitive though, in the realm where you think "wait and see" is ideal, you don't pose any kind of question which'd support a read either way.
Reactions aside, I like Terry. Vezok I'm not sure on, I disagree with most of what he's said aside from the first half of 118.
I've been a bit busy, but I'm going to give a more thorough analysis of the game so far by at least 24 hours before deadline. Traveling from CA to NY on the night of the 1st, but I'll certainly have a chance at some point.
I didn't pose a question because Vaimes pressing Osie to explain himself further was what I was interested in. And for GJ to post again. I didn't pose a question because they'd already been asked. By osie calling GJ a liar and Vaimes asking Osie to expand his read.
Also you say:
and then spend a ton of time explaining why you're scum reading Vaimes. So I'm not sure that adds up.
Yeah, my vaimes read was after that post.
You haven't answered what I asked you to.
Happy new year everybody!
I honestly don't know what question you're referring to.
But GJ could be running a crazy 1 for 1 gambit (despite that being exceedingly unlikely) and I wanted to wait and see how their behavior continued to shake out. I don't know why you're so certain that opinions should be set the second Osie makes their first post after the accusation. It just doesn't make sense to me. I wanted to wait and see because scum almost never 1 for 1 early. But sometimes they do.
And on Vaimes I guess I read more into 125 than I should have. I had taken that as an accusatory post.
Also some mod just made my posts really confusing there. :/
If you have any questions, let me know.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Dont think vaimes is a wolf. Cam explain after new years.
Also, site has been very unfriendly to my phone :/
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Maybe tell us who you think is scum if you're opposed to the biggest wagon?
I'm torn on GJ's gambit. A big part of me thinks that it's a risky gambit for scum that draws attention to him. Thunderdoming so early risks people thinking him scum, or if we eventually lynch Osie, people looking back on it and saying "Hey look at this inteeraction with the confirmed town. GJ looks scummy here." This obviously assumes scum!GJ/town Osie.
The other, smaller part of me is saying that "Hey, GJ is making effort D1. I'm confused. What does it mean?"
I don't have enough knowledge/care enough about meta to let the smaller part have too much effect here. GJ is PROBABLY likely town for it.
I dislike Arc's analysis of the gambit in 68 because everything he points out is partially negative. He does point out that he's saying that these reactions 'feel wrong' but the lack of attempted objective analysis doesn't feel natural here for someone who's looking for scum.
That said, that post is the only post I've really disliked by him. And he has a lot of posts, which is usually a good thing.
Question: @Arc: What reactions did you expect? You seem to have expected specific reactions there.
Terry hasn't made a huge impression on me yet, although he also has a lot of posts. So I'll throw him in lean town.
Osie also hasn't left me thinking anything specific. Which is notably weird.I always have some sort of opinion on Osie. I'm going to reread him later tonight to see why that is.
Everyone else currently null. I really need to recatch up after the past couple weeks of crazy work weeks.
You mean you always have the same, wrong opinion on me?
I've been lower than usual activity for a variety of reasons. That will change, though. I have the file for note taking ready on my computer for something more than preliminary reads.
KJ's does not. It feels like he is just going through the motions.