2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Ok, so, for what it's worth, my thoughts: Having played this game for a long time and having some semblance of what a "balanced" set of roles might look like. I think it is possible for what Iso claimed and for what DBS claimed to both exists in the same game and also both be Town aligned. They are distinct enough and work differently enough, that I wouldn't call foul! seeing it. Iso's only goes off at best once and only when he dies. DBS's only goes off when she is perilously close to death herself. They are also both underpowered enough to be true and also be scum roles (which is a fact I like). Although I would say DBS's role is less likely to be on a scum just due to the possibility of repeatable shots.
What would make me call foul, however, would be the existence of another killing role on the side of the Town. i.e. three town-aligned people (out of a group of maybe ~12-13) with killing roles. That would be an overabundance of killing going on.
So, if you exist - hypothetical unclaimed townie who also has a killing role - you need to take careful note. I am not calling for a counter-claim here, just putting that out there.
CAVEAT: there are games I have seen with an overabundance of killing roles. I hope this is not one of those games. Usually, when I see them, though, it's for flavor based reasons. As I said at the beginning of this, I know nothing about the flavor of Zero Escape. If it's the kind of game that has a lot of killing in it, then, maybe(?) the mods could have goen crazy with the killing roles in the game, and somehow thought it might all fall out in the wash. But I think Eco reviewed this game and I'd trust him to not let something completely bollixed get through.
ALSO NOTE: The role "titles" that have been claimed so far have been more-or-less consistent with the ability claims, but mine is NOT. I am putting this out there just in case I die unclaimed. My "title" is something that sounds like my role could/should be a killing role, but it ain't. The only reason I'm claiming that much, again, is because it would make me ill if I died, and people saw my title, assumed that I had a killing role from it, and then used that (mistaken) information as a basis to lynch someone.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I'm sorry for my outburst but it needed to be said. Back to the game.
Iso in #2694 explains sufficiently. I suppose Terry will find some way for this to imply an act of malice perpetrated by me in some form. I do not look forward to it and can only hope it will not happen. Conversely, Axelrod is suddenly calling a lynch on Iso a mislynch. Certainly Iso is cleared of suspicion regarding the "kill" language, as well as the episode of a brutish nature, but what can you point to that shows that he is on the side of good? I have yet to see anything of that nature. It could be that he, as a nonce, has a habit of falling on his own face, so much so that he continues to roll down a hill in perpetuity. That, however, can cause any issue in of itself, when we turn away from the continual thuds and tell our children, "That's just Sisyphus's boulder." In other words, you seem to be a bit hasty.
I would have said that Iso's greed for BP at the beginning of the game was not justified based on this role, as, even if he gets to 7, it's not that good, but it's somewhat consistent with him *thinking* he was a vig?
To clarify, Iso, what did you think you were at first?
(1) Regular vig. who needed to get to 7 BP
-(1a) and 7 was a "threshold" at which point you could fire every night as long as you stayed there
-(1b) and 7 was the "cost" of the ability
(2) Vengeful Townie who needed to be at 7 BP to work.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Conversely, Axelrod is suddenly calling a lynch on Iso a mislynch.
Um, yeah, that didn't happen.
I'm pointing out how the claim could be true. That's about it. I'm still undecided as to whether he's Town or not. On balance, I think I'd rather lynch someone else.
Like you.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Ok, so, for what it's worth, my thoughts: Having played this game for a long time and having some semblance of what a "balanced" set of roles might look like. I think it is possible for what Iso claimed and for what DBS claimed to both exists in the same game and also both be Town aligned. They are distinct enough and work differently enough, that I wouldn't call foul! seeing it. Iso's only goes off at best once and only when he dies. DBS's only goes off when she is perilously close to death herself. They are also both underpowered enough to be true and also be scum roles (which is a fact I like). Although I would say DBS's role is less likely to be on a scum just due to the possibility of repeatable shots.
What would make me call foul, however, would be the existence of another killing role on the side of the Town. i.e. three town-aligned people (out of a group of maybe ~12-13) with killing roles. That would be an overabundance of killing going on.
So, if you exist - hypothetical unclaimed townie who also has a killing role - you need to take careful note. I am not calling for a counter-claim here, just putting that out there.
CAVEAT: there are games I have seen with an overabundance of killing roles. I hope this is not one of those games. Usually, when I see them, though, it's for flavor based reasons. As I said at the beginning of this, I know nothing about the flavor of Zero Escape. If it's the kind of game that has a lot of killing in it, then, maybe(?) the mods could have goen crazy with the killing roles in the game, and somehow thought it might all fall out in the wash. But I think Eco reviewed this game and I'd trust him to not let something completely bollixed get through.
ALSO NOTE: The role "titles" that have been claimed so far have been more-or-less consistent with the ability claims, but mine is NOT. I am putting this out there just in case I die unclaimed. My "title" is something that sounds like my role could/should be a killing role, but it ain't. The only reason I'm claiming that much, again, is because it would make me ill if I died, and people saw my title, assumed that I had a killing role from it, and then used that (mistaken) information as a basis to lynch someone.
tbh my role name is literally the definition of my ability... It's weird lol
@Iso, I understand about game momentum. But what makes you think LW isn't a viable lynch NOW? Multiple people have professed belief that LW is scummy. (Terry, you, Az, etc)
@Iso, I understand about game momentum. But what makes you think LW isn't a viable lynch NOW? Multiple people have professed belief that LW is scummy. (Terry, you, Az, etc)
again you seem to only come in to suggest a mislynch on me lol...
Does Az, as scum, blow all his credibility D1 by aggressively pushing a mislynch?
Jenna, this is my response to Iso, and his argument that Az is doing the same thing in this game that Az did in another game where Az was scum. Iso said that Az came in at "the 11th" hour and pushed a mislynch on a Townie. I thought he meant "at the end of the game" and pointed out that this would be a different situation - if Az was scum pushing townie-Iso's mislynch.
That is not me calling Iso a mislynch. See, this is part of my trouble with you. How do you read what I wrote and come back with that? It's deliberately misleading.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
what is it you see in my post to Last? I thought you hate to reference meta, and that game I have in mind isn't even a traditional mafia game. what do you see in my statement, that you agree with?
how do you know I have seen only 1 town and 1 scum game from Grapefruit? he's played more than just 2 games, and I can look back at the ISOs of his games in this forum.
why are you giving LnG clearance based off his claim? what makes Osie's walls interesting to you, especially if his only scumreads are just Dawn/Last, isn't that just opportunistic agreement?
I remember you mentioning before, that you would rather be lynched than claim. why are you now willing to clear players based on their claims, and scumread me for claiming one of the most scummiest roles ever? LnG/Grapefruit/Iso should not be given exceptions even if they claim, and neither should I. you are focused on me, that is good, but if you do not look into the others apart from their claims, it shows a lack of gamesolving. give me a valid reason why you are scumreading me based off just my claim, and why you are willing to townread others based off just their claim?
I hope you aren't trying to construct a different meta from our homesite, since that would make it really difficult to read you. I didn't mind letting Grapefruit, you, or Last know that I'm the same person, because I intend to play in the same way I always do. if you're trying to discredit my metareads based off the reason you're going to play differently, please don't. this attempt to mess around with playstyles is akin to gamethrowing and makes it hard to read you.
@killjoy
I haven't seen the town in Osie yet, but I would like to focus on someone I can read better. Shinichi's focus on me doesn't seem town-motivated, and his heavy reliance on claims to clear or scumread players doesn't look good, BUT I have not seen his scumgame compared to Grapefruit, so I'm more confident of the Grapefruit lynch.
@Last
why would you scumread Iso just based off his counterclaim/retract stunt? I remember you exclaimed somewhere how I cannot see Iso as scum, is it based off that incident? Dawn/Shinichi have misread the role pm, so why can't Iso? please tell me you have more reason to lynch Iso than just that.
for me, I do not see the fire that I've seen in his towngames. otherwise, I would be townreading him based off our interaction since, in my opinion, he is behaviorally town.
my lynch pool for now is:
Grapefruit - for being too reserved yet not exploited.
Iso - towngame meta doesn't match here.
Osie - ISOs and walls doesn't seem to sort alignments. questionnaires also did nothing. fluff, more or less.
Shinichi - he is basing his scum and town reads more on claims and not behavior or information. at best, he would be TPR, at worst he is scum.
Megiddo - for ghosting. not as helpful as Jenna/Kaba who still post while catching up.
also, Tom/Azrael/Last still for my townblock.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Ok, it's looking like we are going to get a Lynch here real soon.
Here's my POE:
Round 1: DV - I'm never really a fan of DV's play style (but I think I've only played with him as scum), but I think DV coming out and claiming he's going to betray before it was even cool to do it, says that he's not self conscious scum. Shinichi - Being convinced that every one should have started with 3 BP, seems like a pretty significant town slip
Kabazame/BluesEclipse
tomsloger
Jenna Tolaria
lastwhisper
Megiddo
dawningbluesky Iso - I think botched CC and retraction says a lot towards ISO being town.
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry - Town AF
Grapefruit21
Azrael
Killjoy LnGrrrR - Claim is only useful to town. I believe it too based on how they came out of the gates with mechanic focus
osieorb18 Phoenix-Fire - PF feels right, I see the logic in their posts, effort is there, seems to be solving Axelrod - Axel feels right, I see the logic in their posts, effort is there, seems to be solving
Round 2:
Kabazame/BluesEclipse tomsloger - Rad his ISO, seems to be working towards a solution. His votes are a bit jumpy, but I like where his head is at in most cases.
Jenna Tolaria
lastwhisper
Megiddo
dawningbluesky Grapefruit21 - I haven't been crazy about his play, but I did notice one thing that is putting him into the town pool for me. He seemed to assume that all abilities work the same way, with a direct cost to use, but several different players have indicated that there are threshold abilities as well as direct cost abilities. I'd assume that scum would have a range of ability mechanics between them that would make each other aware of the different ability types. I also felt better about Grape after reading his whole ISO, seems fluid enough. Azrael - I'm super suspicious of Az because he feels like he's a puppeteer just making everyone in this thread dance for him and all his, "yeah I'm scum" antics, but something caught my eye when he seemed jealous that DBS got multiple abilities. Along the same lines as my clear on GF and Shin, if he was scum, I'm sure at least one of the scum would have multiple abilities. I liked his recent POE. I disagree with some of the reads, but I respect the process.
Killjoy
osieorb18
For completion sake, my role and ability have the same name.
I do actually like that Jenna said this, more or less unprompted.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Does Az, as scum, blow all his credibility D1 by aggressively pushing a mislynch?
Jenna, this is my response to Iso, and his argument that Az is doing the same thing in this game that Az did in another game where Az was scum. Iso said that Az came in at "the 11th" hour and pushed a mislynch on a Townie. I thought he meant "at the end of the game" and pointed out that this would be a different situation - if Az was scum pushing townie-Iso's mislynch.
That is not me calling Iso a mislynch. See, this is part of my trouble with you. How do you read what I wrote and come back with that? It's deliberately misleading.
posts like these always makes me think you're scum lol. Jenna made a good point though, why would you call Iso a mislynch - does that mean you know his alignment? I still haven't got off your scent yet. your behavior reminds me of how I played as scum before.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
@DV: Explain how Osie and I can be scum together? I'm very confused at that.
@Axel: What exactly is your definition of busywork that applies to me but doesn't apply to the sheer amount of fluff questions/posts Osie has done?
Also, your analysis made me realize something I missed in my post: part of the original intent of the post was to illustrate how much of Osie's posting was fluff. Given the size of the post, I lost track of that apparently. That's probably part of why it's so confusing.
The busywork I was ascribing to you was the sheer amount of that post of your's that was devoted to just re-typing/rephrasing everything Osie had said, in order to then put your bolded comments/thoughts next to them. You really didn't need to do that. Your post would have been a lot better and easier to read if you hadn't, or had done some editing, or something. And so much of what you put in that post you put in to then say "eh, this post is null" or something like that.
That is the kind of busywork that scum do - more summary than analysis. Now, you did have some analysis in there. It wasn't just a re-typing of everything Osie had said. But that was a lot of it.
And that's not the same thing as making a lot of "fluff" posts. Yours wasn't a "fluff" post. And I'm not even disagreeing that Osie has a lot of what you might call "fluff" posts in this game. Though, as I think I noted, it's less fluff the deeper in we get.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I think dawn is town, both for my insight into her mindset and her role claim. ParanoidIso has a theory on this that I don't want scum to capitalize on, so I'm not sharing that. It creates reasonable doubt of dawn's claim, but again, I think she's town.
The 11th hour [of Day 1]. And yes, he totally would, because he thinks he can get away with it.
Az is playing with game momentum and tackling Jenna at times when he knows a wagon won't take, while accusing me of being scum because I'm not utilizing game momentum when I'm not in the thread to utilize it. It's not off in the slightest.
hmm.. I don't think scum!Azrael would make that huge a post though, and with thorough re-evaluation of everyone. paranoid!Iso just means you're wining yourself lol. this sudden turnaround of townreads on me though...it's unsettling.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Does Az, as scum, blow all his credibility D1 by aggressively pushing a mislynch?
Jenna, this is my response to Iso, and his argument that Az is doing the same thing in this game that Az did in another game where Az was scum. Iso said that Az came in at "the 11th" hour and pushed a mislynch on a Townie. I thought he meant "at the end of the game" and pointed out that this would be a different situation - if Az was scum pushing townie-Iso's mislynch.
That is not me calling Iso a mislynch. See, this is part of my trouble with you. How do you read what I wrote and come back with that? It's deliberately misleading.
posts like these always makes me think you're scum lol. Jenna made a good point though, why would you call Iso a mislynch - does that mean you know his alignment? I still haven't got off your scent yet. your behavior reminds me of how I played as scum before.
Um, DBS, do you know what a hypothetical question is?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I would have said that Iso's greed for BP at the beginning of the game was not justified based on this role, as, even if he gets to 7, it's not that good, but it's somewhat consistent with him *thinking* he was a vig?
To clarify, Iso, what did you think you were at first?
(1) Regular vig. who needed to get to 7 BP
-(1a) and 7 was a "threshold" at which point you could fire every night as long as you stayed there
-(1b) and 7 was the "cost" of the ability
(2) Vengeful Townie who needed to be at 7 BP to work.
@Iso, I understand about game momentum. But what makes you think LW isn't a viable lynch NOW? Multiple people have professed belief that LW is scummy. (Terry, you, Az, etc)
Lick your finger and put it to the sky. The wind isn't blowing in that direction.
Does Az, as scum, blow all his credibility D1 by aggressively pushing a mislynch?
Jenna, this is my response to Iso, and his argument that Az is doing the same thing in this game that Az did in another game where Az was scum. Iso said that Az came in at "the 11th" hour and pushed a mislynch on a Townie. I thought he meant "at the end of the game" and pointed out that this would be a different situation - if Az was scum pushing townie-Iso's mislynch.
Az did this thing in this other game on Day 1, as well.
I think dawn is town, both for my insight into her mindset and her role claim. ParanoidIso has a theory on this that I don't want scum to capitalize on, so I'm not sharing that. It creates reasonable doubt of dawn's claim, but again, I think she's town.
The 11th hour [of Day 1]. And yes, he totally would, because he thinks he can get away with it.
Az is playing with game momentum and tackling Jenna at times when he knows a wagon won't take, while accusing me of being scum because I'm not utilizing game momentum when I'm not in the thread to utilize it. It's not off in the slightest.
hmm.. I don't think scum!Azrael would make that huge a post though, and with thorough re-evaluation of everyone.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Um, DBS, do you know what a hypothetical question is?
I guess(?), but I don't recall hypothetical questions to come out with such a threatening voice. not the first time I've seen scum ask hypothetical questions...it's a good fallback.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
@Iso, you can be forceful if you want. Why not push for LW? Why not create momentum? Do you think jenna's lynch has so much more momentum? Do you really think an az lynch has any momentum roughly 24 hrs away from deadline?
I don't feel hugely confident in a vote on Grape. But I do remember some concern that I was being pocketed by Grape earlier on. I suppose I'll check him out again...
That said, if there's a concern of one of Az or Iso as scum, why would we vote a distinct wagon that one of the two of them suspected and the other one did not? That seems like asking for trouble in case Iso is town and Grape is scum or both Iso and Az are town and Grape is, well, either alignment.
The length of Az's wall is not the important part. It's the content. I agree with some of it, but disagree with other parts of it. And over the course of the game as a whole, Az has exhibited more scum tendencies.
Besides, by his own admission, his general strategy as town is not one of pretending to be scum. I think the pretense is, in and of itself, another layer of smokescreen, and there are too many of those surrounding Az.
I believe Iso's claim 100% my ability is also ridiculously costed.
I sorta believe that claim, mainly since my role is a charger type, so I'd imagine plenty of the town abilities are costly. but....not sure if I can ever trust mechanics.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
@Azrael
late to remember this but..I recall you wanted to read up my meta, as a basis to read Last. how did that go? my previous meta should coincide with this game.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
I believe Iso's claim 100% my ability is also ridiculously costed.
I sorta believe that claim, mainly since my role is a charger type, so I'd imagine plenty of the town abilities are costly. but....not sure if I can ever trust mechanics.
Its actually set up that in any event I think that all town PR except maybe one is going to have really high costs. And the rest is going to be charger sort of roles or something.
It is why I thought I was Pseudo. Even still I think I might be a pseudo roll. Even if I betray night one. And every night. I get my ability off TWICE. By night five.
I don't feel hugely confident in a vote on Grape. But I do remember some concern that I was being pocketed by Grape earlier on. I suppose I'll check him out again...
he is quite good at pocketing players from a distance. if you don't see any close-up questioning, that is a sign. and, don't you think there is too much resistance to the Grapefruit lynch? I'm very sure this one will flip scum. 99% sure, with the extra 1% doubt until the flip.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
@Iso, you can be forceful if you want. Why not push for LW? Why not create momentum? Do you think jenna's lynch has so much more momentum? Do you really think an az lynch has any momentum roughly 24 hrs away from deadline?
Because some players don't just go with what has momentum, and instead stick by their beliefs?
Like, I don't think Iso and Az are aligned; it doesn't look like W/W, and it's probably not V/V. And if I were to choose between them looking at the game as a whole, I'd vote Az until his wall of posts, and with Iso's claim, that only solidifies that.
Okay Tom, your opinion on Az as a potential "powerwolfer".
Are you familiar with this other game Iso is referencing?
Go.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@Iso, you can be forceful if you want. Why not push for LW? Why not create momentum? Do you think jenna's lynch has so much more momentum? Do you really think an az lynch has any momentum roughly 24 hrs away from deadline?
Because some players don't just go with what has momentum, and instead stick by their beliefs?
Like, I don't think Iso and Az are aligned; it doesn't look like W/W, and it's probably not V/V. And if I were to choose between them looking at the game as a whole, I'd vote Az until his wall of posts, and with Iso's claim, that only solidifies that.
Are you going to answer my question or are you just LOL posting words to LOL post words?
Tom has just sort of Sideline sat and just weighed in on problems but never taken an active role.
From near the start, I have a little bit of trouble believing that Scum!Tom makes posts like #212 or #221 about you and me.
I also feel that Tom is organic this game and not particularly manipulative. Like, he's doing what he wants, he's thinking about the game, and putting stuff out there, but not trying to spiderweb his way into the endgame. If he was scum, there are a number clever moves that he of all people could easily push for that he hasn't. To be fair, Tom is, in my opinion, quite possibly the best mafia player I've ever had the pleasure of playing with or against, but I don't think that he's pulled the wool over my eyes, especially in part because unlike several other players (you, Grapefruit, Azrael) who I've been paranoid about over the course of this game, I also don't get any feeling that he's trying to pocket me or bus a buddy.
Tom has just sort of Sideline sat and just weighed in on problems but never taken an active role.
From near the start, I have a little bit of trouble believing that Scum!Tom makes posts like #212 or #221 about you and me.
I also feel that Tom is organic this game and not particularly manipulative. Like, he's doing what he wants, he's thinking about the game, and putting stuff out there, but not trying to spiderweb his way into the endgame. If he was scum, there are a number clever moves that he of all people could easily push for that he hasn't. To be fair, Tom is, in my opinion, quite possibly the best mafia player I've ever had the pleasure of playing with or against, but I don't think that he's pulled the wool over my eyes, especially in part because unlike several other players (you, Grapefruit, Azrael) who I've been paranoid about over the course of this game, I also don't get any feeling that he's trying to pocket me or bus a buddy.
Can you quit making good posts so I can go back to scum reading you?
Are you going to answer my question or are you just LOL posting words to LOL post words?
There once was a girl named Patience,
She had quite some virtue. A grace, yes.
She let people speak,
rather than badger and weep.
That polite little girl named Patience.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
What would make me call foul, however, would be the existence of another killing role on the side of the Town. i.e. three town-aligned people (out of a group of maybe ~12-13) with killing roles. That would be an overabundance of killing going on.
So, if you exist - hypothetical unclaimed townie who also has a killing role - you need to take careful note. I am not calling for a counter-claim here, just putting that out there.
CAVEAT: there are games I have seen with an overabundance of killing roles. I hope this is not one of those games. Usually, when I see them, though, it's for flavor based reasons. As I said at the beginning of this, I know nothing about the flavor of Zero Escape. If it's the kind of game that has a lot of killing in it, then, maybe(?) the mods could have goen crazy with the killing roles in the game, and somehow thought it might all fall out in the wash. But I think Eco reviewed this game and I'd trust him to not let something completely bollixed get through.
ALSO NOTE: The role "titles" that have been claimed so far have been more-or-less consistent with the ability claims, but mine is NOT. I am putting this out there just in case I die unclaimed. My "title" is something that sounds like my role could/should be a killing role, but it ain't. The only reason I'm claiming that much, again, is because it would make me ill if I died, and people saw my title, assumed that I had a killing role from it, and then used that (mistaken) information as a basis to lynch someone.
Outside of what was presented in their pushes on each other, they're relatively comparable, and Iso does look a bit more consistent.
Prior to his burst of activity, Az was not looking so great. But Iso has had his moments as well...
*Sigh*
Unvote
Vote: Megiddo
Iso in #2694 explains sufficiently. I suppose Terry will find some way for this to imply an act of malice perpetrated by me in some form. I do not look forward to it and can only hope it will not happen. Conversely, Axelrod is suddenly calling a lynch on Iso a mislynch. Certainly Iso is cleared of suspicion regarding the "kill" language, as well as the episode of a brutish nature, but what can you point to that shows that he is on the side of good? I have yet to see anything of that nature. It could be that he, as a nonce, has a habit of falling on his own face, so much so that he continues to roll down a hill in perpetuity. That, however, can cause any issue in of itself, when we turn away from the continual thuds and tell our children, "That's just Sisyphus's boulder." In other words, you seem to be a bit hasty.
Uhm so you want to lynch the player who has the least amount of content to go off of?
They both have had their moments, once a lynch happens alot of connections will most likely fall into place.
To clarify, Iso, what did you think you were at first?
(1) Regular vig. who needed to get to 7 BP
-(1a) and 7 was a "threshold" at which point you could fire every night as long as you stayed there
-(1b) and 7 was the "cost" of the ability
(2) Vengeful Townie who needed to be at 7 BP to work.
Um, yeah, that didn't happen.
I'm pointing out how the claim could be true. That's about it. I'm still undecided as to whether he's Town or not. On balance, I think I'd rather lynch someone else.
Like you.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
But you did:
See #2706. It's a placeholder. It might as well be an Unvote.
Yeah.
I feel like we've had two claims too many today from people whose roles are better if they don't claim. (Dawning, Iso)
Maybe a CFD to Azrael is the correct play.
Vote: Azrael
Jenna, this is my response to Iso, and his argument that Az is doing the same thing in this game that Az did in another game where Az was scum. Iso said that Az came in at "the 11th" hour and pushed a mislynch on a Townie. I thought he meant "at the end of the game" and pointed out that this would be a different situation - if Az was scum pushing townie-Iso's mislynch.
That is not me calling Iso a mislynch. See, this is part of my trouble with you. How do you read what I wrote and come back with that? It's deliberately misleading.
how do you know I have seen only 1 town and 1 scum game from Grapefruit? he's played more than just 2 games, and I can look back at the ISOs of his games in this forum.
why are you giving LnG clearance based off his claim? what makes Osie's walls interesting to you, especially if his only scumreads are just Dawn/Last, isn't that just opportunistic agreement?
I remember you mentioning before, that you would rather be lynched than claim. why are you now willing to clear players based on their claims, and scumread me for claiming one of the most scummiest roles ever? LnG/Grapefruit/Iso should not be given exceptions even if they claim, and neither should I. you are focused on me, that is good, but if you do not look into the others apart from their claims, it shows a lack of gamesolving. give me a valid reason why you are scumreading me based off just my claim, and why you are willing to townread others based off just their claim?
I hope you aren't trying to construct a different meta from our homesite, since that would make it really difficult to read you. I didn't mind letting Grapefruit, you, or Last know that I'm the same person, because I intend to play in the same way I always do. if you're trying to discredit my metareads based off the reason you're going to play differently, please don't. this attempt to mess around with playstyles is akin to gamethrowing and makes it hard to read you.
@killjoy
@Last
for me, I do not see the fire that I've seen in his towngames. otherwise, I would be townreading him based off our interaction since, in my opinion, he is behaviorally town.
my lynch pool for now is:
Grapefruit - for being too reserved yet not exploited.
Iso - towngame meta doesn't match here.
Osie - ISOs and walls doesn't seem to sort alignments. questionnaires also did nothing. fluff, more or less.
Shinichi - he is basing his scum and town reads more on claims and not behavior or information. at best, he would be TPR, at worst he is scum.
Megiddo - for ghosting. not as helpful as Jenna/Kaba who still post while catching up.
also, Tom/Azrael/Last still for my townblock.
Be grateful, always."
Here's my POE:
Round 1:
DV- I'm never really a fan of DV's play style (but I think I've only played with him as scum), but I think DV coming out and claiming he's going to betray before it was even cool to do it, says that he's not self conscious scum.Shinichi- Being convinced that every one should have started with 3 BP, seems like a pretty significant town slipKabazame/BluesEclipse
tomsloger
Jenna Tolaria
lastwhisper
Megiddo
dawningbluesky
Iso- I think botched CC and retraction says a lot towards ISO being town.TheRealStinkyJoeTerry - Town AF
Grapefruit21
Azrael
Killjoy
LnGrrrR- Claim is only useful to town. I believe it too based on how they came out of the gates with mechanic focusosieorb18
Phoenix-Fire- PF feels right, I see the logic in their posts, effort is there, seems to be solvingAxelrod- Axel feels right, I see the logic in their posts, effort is there, seems to be solvingRound 2:
Kabazame/BluesEclipse
tomsloger- Rad his ISO, seems to be working towards a solution. His votes are a bit jumpy, but I like where his head is at in most cases.Jenna Tolaria
lastwhisper
Megiddo
dawningbluesky
Grapefruit21- I haven't been crazy about his play, but I did notice one thing that is putting him into the town pool for me. He seemed to assume that all abilities work the same way, with a direct cost to use, but several different players have indicated that there are threshold abilities as well as direct cost abilities. I'd assume that scum would have a range of ability mechanics between them that would make each other aware of the different ability types. I also felt better about Grape after reading his whole ISO, seems fluid enough.Azrael- I'm super suspicious of Az because he feels like he's a puppeteer just making everyone in this thread dance for him and all his, "yeah I'm scum" antics, but something caught my eye when he seemed jealous that DBS got multiple abilities. Along the same lines as my clear on GF and Shin, if he was scum, I'm sure at least one of the scum would have multiple abilities. I liked his recent POE. I disagree with some of the reads, but I respect the process.Killjoy
osieorb18
Shoot TBC... I have to go to a meeting.
I do actually like that Jenna said this, more or less unprompted.
Vote: Grapefruit21
and why would anyone want to switch over to Azrael at this point?
Be grateful, always."
Be grateful, always."
The busywork I was ascribing to you was the sheer amount of that post of your's that was devoted to just re-typing/rephrasing everything Osie had said, in order to then put your bolded comments/thoughts next to them. You really didn't need to do that. Your post would have been a lot better and easier to read if you hadn't, or had done some editing, or something. And so much of what you put in that post you put in to then say "eh, this post is null" or something like that.
That is the kind of busywork that scum do - more summary than analysis. Now, you did have some analysis in there. It wasn't just a re-typing of everything Osie had said. But that was a lot of it.
And that's not the same thing as making a lot of "fluff" posts. Yours wasn't a "fluff" post. And I'm not even disagreeing that Osie has a lot of what you might call "fluff" posts in this game. Though, as I think I noted, it's less fluff the deeper in we get.
Be grateful, always."
Um, DBS, do you know what a hypothetical question is?
Be grateful, always."
Be grateful, always."
1a
Lick your finger and put it to the sky. The wind isn't blowing in that direction.
Az did this thing in this other game on Day 1, as well.
Well, his obvscum push on me, for one.
I do!
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Be grateful, always."
So its Jenna, Tom and KJ.
I believe Iso's claim 100% my ability is also ridiculously costed.
What associative reads have you made? As you said I just read your iso...
And:
Why is jenna scum?
ok... who is on the scumteam in your opinion? I'm sure you have enough info to figure this out by now (and I'm curious about your towngame)
Be grateful, always."
Mmmm..
Unvote Vote Tom
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
That said, if there's a concern of one of Az or Iso as scum, why would we vote a distinct wagon that one of the two of them suspected and the other one did not? That seems like asking for trouble in case Iso is town and Grape is scum or both Iso and Az are town and Grape is, well, either alignment.
The length of Az's wall is not the important part. It's the content. I agree with some of it, but disagree with other parts of it. And over the course of the game as a whole, Az has exhibited more scum tendencies.
Besides, by his own admission, his general strategy as town is not one of pretending to be scum. I think the pretense is, in and of itself, another layer of smokescreen, and there are too many of those surrounding Az.
I'm sticking with my vote for now.
Be grateful, always."
Why do you think that Tom is scum?
late to remember this but..I recall you wanted to read up my meta, as a basis to read Last. how did that go? my previous meta should coincide with this game.
Be grateful, always."
It is why I thought I was Pseudo. Even still I think I might be a pseudo roll. Even if I betray night one. And every night. I get my ability off TWICE. By night five.
Why do you think that Tom is town?
Tom has just sort of Sideline sat and just weighed in on problems but never taken an active role.
KJ is clearly scum because his last post too was just asking Azreal to build a case for him.
Be grateful, always."
Because some players don't just go with what has momentum, and instead stick by their beliefs?
Like, I don't think Iso and Az are aligned; it doesn't look like W/W, and it's probably not V/V. And if I were to choose between them looking at the game as a whole, I'd vote Az until his wall of posts, and with Iso's claim, that only solidifies that.
Are you familiar with this other game Iso is referencing?
Go.
Are you going to answer my question or are you just LOL posting words to LOL post words?
From near the start, I have a little bit of trouble believing that Scum!Tom makes posts like #212 or #221 about you and me.
I also feel that Tom is organic this game and not particularly manipulative. Like, he's doing what he wants, he's thinking about the game, and putting stuff out there, but not trying to spiderweb his way into the endgame. If he was scum, there are a number clever moves that he of all people could easily push for that he hasn't. To be fair, Tom is, in my opinion, quite possibly the best mafia player I've ever had the pleasure of playing with or against, but I don't think that he's pulled the wool over my eyes, especially in part because unlike several other players (you, Grapefruit, Azrael) who I've been paranoid about over the course of this game, I also don't get any feeling that he's trying to pocket me or bus a buddy.
Can you quit making good posts so I can go back to scum reading you?
Ugh Azreal KJ Jenna team then?
Unvote Vote Jenna
lol! Seriously? That's your play?
There once was a girl named Patience,
She had quite some virtue. A grace, yes.
She let people speak,
rather than badger and weep.
That polite little girl named Patience.