Shin, Osie's d1 solving thing isn't an isolated incident. I've done my version of it maybe 7 or 8 times in my last ten games. I don't know exactly how many games iso has done his, but considerably more than me, maybe double or triple, and instead of missing 1 or 2 like me, he gets them all himself. And we've seen his comparatively weaker scum game many times before, too.
I mean Ik you guys know him better than me, I was mostly refering to Dawns reasoning which is more than a sheep and less of her own reasons. So you believe this is one of his weaker scum games?
Shin, Osie's d1 solving thing isn't an isolated incident. I've done my version of it maybe 7 or 8 times in my last ten games. I don't know exactly how many games iso has done his, but considerably more than me, maybe double or triple, and instead of missing 1 or 2 like me, he gets them all himself. And we've seen his comparatively weaker scum game many times before, too.
I mean, he notes his own success in that very game in one of the posts, calling out how often and accurately he nails scum. He uses it as an argument to sheep him in that game.
Shin, Osie's d1 solving thing isn't an isolated incident. I've done my version of it maybe 7 or 8 times in my last ten games. I don't know exactly how many games iso has done his, but considerably more than me, maybe double or triple, and instead of missing 1 or 2 like me, he gets them all himself. And we've seen his comparatively weaker scum game many times before, too.
I mean Ik you guys know him better than me, I was mostly refering to Dawns reasoning which is more than a sheep and less of her own reasons. So you believe this is one of his weaker scum games?
Shin, Osie's d1 solving thing isn't an isolated incident. I've done my version of it maybe 7 or 8 times in my last ten games. I don't know exactly how many games iso has done his, but considerably more than me, maybe double or triple, and instead of missing 1 or 2 like me, he gets them all himself. And we've seen his comparatively weaker scum game many times before, too.
I mean, he notes his own success in that very game in one of the posts, calling out how often and accurately he nails scum. He uses it as an argument to sheep him in that game.
Would a town aligned person actually do that?
Considering he was town in that game, I would say yes.
Shin, Osie's d1 solving thing isn't an isolated incident. I've done my version of it maybe 7 or 8 times in my last ten games. I don't know exactly how many games iso has done his, but considerably more than me, maybe double or triple, and instead of missing 1 or 2 like me, he gets them all himself. And we've seen his comparatively weaker scum game many times before, too.
I mean Ik you guys know him better than me, I was mostly refering to Dawns reasoning which is more than a sheep and less of her own reasons. So you believe this is one of his weaker scum games?
Shin, Osie's d1 solving thing isn't an isolated incident. I've done my version of it maybe 7 or 8 times in my last ten games. I don't know exactly how many games iso has done his, but considerably more than me, maybe double or triple, and instead of missing 1 or 2 like me, he gets them all himself. And we've seen his comparatively weaker scum game many times before, too.
I mean, he notes his own success in that very game in one of the posts, calling out how often and accurately he nails scum. He uses it as an argument to sheep him in that game.
Would a town aligned person actually do that?
Oh wait i read your post wrong nvm lol ignore my question I thought you meant this game
I mean Ik you guys know him better than me, I was mostly refering to Dawns reasoning which is more than a sheep and less of her own reasons. So you believe this is one of his weaker scum games?
Would a town aligned person actually do that?
This is either the worst incarnation of town iso anyone has ever seen, or an iso scum game.
Well, he did, and it's not unusual for him. If you're just that good at your job, but it's tough to get people to do what you know is right, it's a pretty natural response to want to lay it all out there and make sure people understand your track record. It doesn't always come off as very nice or pleasant, but it's a tough line for him to walk between helping his teammates as much as he can, and just telling them they're just not as good at this as he is and need to fall in line if they want to win.
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Sir Chris! Couldn't remember; that was the name of the other guy I can never read. Most amazing player I've ever met, either alignment. Utterly brilliant. Has he wandered away? I really liked that guy.
Chris! I actually came from the same community as him. He recently started playing again over there so maybe he'll come back here eventually
How can anyone not get a good read on the playerbase wen we're at 2k posts?
You say this but have some people at neutral still do you not?
agree, idk where the correlation comes from, 2k posts, but its still day 1, so we have no confirmed information to go off of, so if u had everyone placed, it would only mean your possibly scum. At least thats how I see it...
Even apart from that, you could make a standard lurking and response to pressure case against him. But the meta highlights how drastically deviant this is for him, and the mentality fits.
If the MU champs game taught me anything, it's that although meta can be super easy to do the wrong way, it's way more critical than I ever gave it credit for, for understanding where someone's head is at in a particular game. Just look at all the inter-site things we've had here, and how strongly it has affected various posters. It is a big piece of the puzzle, and here, it represents the bulk of the underwater iceberg.
Iso did say he can't really post on weekends, so I don't expect him to be around until tomorrow
One thing that sticks out is him buddying to Azreal. I get the feeling Az is a strong town player (though I've never played with him, he seems like it!). There are several times he does this:
"@Az, @Axel: Let's mindmeld. Tell me where you're at and why. I think you two have a good chance of being town and I feel like you're two of the stronger analysts in the game - so let's figure this out."
He first says he is "mostly fine" with Az, then "Az doesn't smell like his scummy self" and then he says Az has a good chance of being town, never explaining what he likes about him though.
"Hi, please don’t answer questions directed at other players. Thanks!"
The man who asked the question was Azreal. Why not let Azreal tell him not to answer? It's subtle but perhaps trying to get on Az's good side because he fears him as a strong town player?
"@Az: What are your thoughts on my reasoning behind my reads, whether stated outright or implied? I think my stances on the game are pretty apparent at this point. I'm trying not to get too hung up on the details of making massive posts or PBPAs or ISOs or whatever because I'm still trying to enjoy the game, but get my thoughts out there. Does that make sense?
Anyway, do you trust me? And if so, can I betray you tonight? It's important that we get my ability active ASAP."
If Iso is this force of nature as Town that can figure out the scum team in 100 posts, like I'm hearing, why does he seek vindication from Az? I imagine he has a lot more confidence in his ability than to need Az to back him up. Looks like he's trying to get into Az's circle of town.
"Az, you don’t have to pretend to scumread me to keep me alive."
Very confident that Az is town but still hasn't explained why. Feels like buddying to me
"Az/Axelrod - From early on, I've felt no guile from these two - they're being fairly straightforward in their thought processes and the way they're seeing and approaching the game. I have no issues with basically anything either of them have done."
Along with all the other stuff, he puts Azreal at the top of his town list, and his reasoning is just that he's straightforward and he has no issues with. I don't feel like he really has enough reasoning to be this confident that Azreal is town, especially before he turned it up a few days ago.
D_V votes Azreal and puts him on a scum list, Iso finds the time to call him out on it specifically
"@Az: ... Also, you're being a really bad townbuddy right now by calling me scum and I don't appreciate it. "
More buddying Az
Jenna calls Az scum but says she will Ally him, to which Az replies "lol". Iso quotes this and says +1
I understand Iso is on limited time, but he uses an awful lot of that time buddying to Azreal and I'm not a fan. I haven't played with Iso before so I tried looking at him as someone without that lens, and he still looks pretty scummy buddying up to Az this hard.
What's the vote count? I would vote him but I'm not sure how close he is to being hammered
Fun fact. I've never been in an Iso game where he has gone off. And only ever seen him durdle.
So do you think he should just be excused? That's a dangerous precedent regardless
No but I think using it to lynch on the other hand is just as bad.
Which is what the wagon is on him.
How do you see one but not the other as a bad argument?
Because doing nothing is not pro-town regardless of his usual playstyle. I think the argument about this being much different than his usual style is just a supporting point. As I said, I've never played with him before and he still looks scummy, so I imagine that's not the only mark against him.
Furthermore, there are a lot of reasons to vote/pressure players, not just lynching them (and no one is calling to end the day right now). Maybe the pressure will get him going, or his reactions will offer insight to his alignment. Either way, it's better than just letting him coast.
Fun fact. I've never been in an Iso game where he has gone off. And only ever seen him durdle.
So do you think he should just be excused? That's a dangerous precedent regardless
No but I think using it to lynch on the other hand is just as bad.
Which is what the wagon is on him.
How do you see one but not the other as a bad argument?
Because doing nothing is not pro-town regardless of his usual playstyle. I think the argument about this being much different than his usual style is just a supporting point. As I said, I've never played with him before and he still looks scummy, so I imagine that's not the only mark against him.
Furthermore, there are a lot of reasons to vote/pressure players, not just lynching them (and no one is calling to end the day right now). Maybe the pressure will get him going, or his reactions will offer insight to his alignment. Either way, it's better than just letting him coast.
Then how in the world do you want to lynch ISO over a player like Jenna that has been deliberately obvious about doing nothing at all. I can't even fathom how we are talking about lynching ISO instead of Jenna based on contributions to the game state.
I don't understand this argument when Jenna has said even less than Iso.
But ok then.
"Even less" - Really?
1. It's more than twice as many posts, albeit with potentially less average useful material per post, but still...
2. She's making an effort to play, and to catch up (despite being relatively new to the game).
3. She's made serious arguments, expressed her opinions (albeit not always very clearly), and, while her posting style may make it seem less-than-organic, she's clearly evolved her reads (at least in some cases).
Like, yeah, she's in no way a perfect player. But while experience arguments are awkward and not the greatest, it's just such a glaring factor in the comparison of Jenna and Iso.
And besides, you were in Maelstrom. Jenna's not doing the "I'm a new player, so I'm confused" scum tactic that was used there (Uggh). Iso IS doing something comparable considering his experience.
Like, I can see that you might feel that someone else is a better lynch. But I'm wouldn't agree that Iso is a bad lynch.
I thought it would be nice to play in the present, but I see six votes on Iso and I have yet to see many of his answers. I cannot say, but it is odd to be the one Grapefruit voter.
Then how in the world do you want to lynch ISO over a player like Jenna that has been deliberately obvious about doing nothing at all. I can't even fathom how we are talking about lynching ISO instead of Jenna based on contributions to the game state.
I mean, a lot of us want to kill them both, but I think osie's response is also valid as to that.
Then how in the world do you want to lynch ISO over a player like Jenna that has been deliberately obvious about doing nothing at all. I can't even fathom how we are talking about lynching ISO instead of Jenna based on contributions to the game state.
I mean, a lot of us want to kill them both, but I think osie's response is also valid as to that.
If Iso wasn't the player you think he is would it be though?
If Iso wasn't the player you think he is would it be though?
Is being who he is makes it a lot more obvious what is going on in his head right now.
The meta cases I hate are the ones that go "player x looks like he did in game y." Well, of course they do, it's the same person.
But if you know how someone plays as both town and scum, you know which traits are alignment indicative, and you also know why they play in each of those different ways because of their personality, it's a perfectly reliable technique to say when you think that you see their scum traits showing.
I read back to page 50 and there is a lot of talk about no mafia does this, or no town does that. But it is evident by the hundred rebuttals to the hundred statements thus: anyone can do anything.
I read back to page 50 and there is a lot of talk about no mafia does this, or no town does that. But it is evident by the hundred rebuttals to the hundred statements thus: anyone can do anything.
I mean ya, isnt that obvious? Are you caught up yet?
If town betray scum they lose the ability to use their own abilities
How do you know this?
I don't know for sure, but if scum have abilities that require bp use then obviously they would not want to be betrayed. Some people already stated their abilities cost BP, mine on the other hand does not.
That feels like a stretch of logic, but at the same time so obvious. Are you really saying nothing more than "someone without enough BP can't use abilities." Why apply that to mafia only?
Cause I dont think mafia would be given ability costs that require them to to be at 1 like dawns, but at the same time now that I think aboutu I dont believe all the scum would have high costing abilities maybe 1 or 2 of them would.
Also this was before I even figured out my own ability cost (4)
So you are simply making guesses with nothing based on any factual knowledge of the game's inner workings. This has been a thoroughly worthless pursuit. Sigh.
Sir Chris! Couldn't remember; that was the name of the other guy I can never read. Most amazing player I've ever met, either alignment. Utterly brilliant. Has he wandered away? I really liked that guy. Cyan played a mean scum too, of course.
Quotes like this will get me to return. Very flattered, Azrael. I have had a very busy year but I am hopeful I can resume playing mafia here sooner rather than later.
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2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
I read back to page 50 and there is a lot of talk about no mafia does this, or no town does that. But it is evident by the hundred rebuttals to the hundred statements thus: anyone can do anything.
I mean ya, isnt that obvious? Are you caught up yet?
Fun fact. I've never been in an Iso game where he has gone off. And only ever seen him durdle.
So do you think he should just be excused? That's a dangerous precedent regardless
No but I think using it to lynch on the other hand is just as bad.
Which is what the wagon is on him.
How do you see one but not the other as a bad argument?
Because doing nothing is not pro-town regardless of his usual playstyle. I think the argument about this being much different than his usual style is just a supporting point. As I said, I've never played with him before and he still looks scummy, so I imagine that's not the only mark against him.
Furthermore, there are a lot of reasons to vote/pressure players, not just lynching them (and no one is calling to end the day right now). Maybe the pressure will get him going, or his reactions will offer insight to his alignment. Either way, it's better than just letting him coast.
Then how in the world do you want to lynch ISO over a player like Jenna that has been deliberately obvious about doing nothing at all. I can't even fathom how we are talking about lynching ISO instead of Jenna based on contributions to the game state.
You and D_V are only looking at one dimension. It's not only his reputation, or his lack of contribution, or his buddying to Azreal. It's a combination of several things
I don't understand this argument when Jenna has said even less than Iso.
But ok then.
I don't think it's unreasonable to hold different players to different standards. That said, there are other factors other than just contribution level.
I am tired of Jenna's shtick. She is doing nothing, and I'm coming to the conclusion that it's a deliberate facade to hide her scumness than just something she's doing for fun. And playing from 1000+ posts behind for days on end is just bad.
I think I'm happier voting there than Iso. Iso hasn't done anything to especially make me feel like he's Town, but he's been less...aggravating?
Vote: Jenna
Can switch before deadline if necessary.
You have a terrible habit of lying, and your excuses betray a lack of attention to detail.
I don't think it's unreasonable to hold different players to different standards.
"If everybody is perfect, then nobody is."
~~~~~~
How far behind are you at the moment? 2600 posts is a ton for a day 1, though I'm happy that we have such high activity; it's a good sign for the future and makes at least some people here potentially easier to read.
Sir Chris! Couldn't remember; that was the name of the other guy I can never read. Most amazing player I've ever met, either alignment. Utterly brilliant. Has he wandered away? I really liked that guy. Cyan played a mean scum too, of course.
Quotes like this will get me to return. Very flattered, Azrael. I have had a very busy year but I am hopeful I can resume playing mafia here sooner rather than later.
uhhh... stalker detected
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
I don't think it's unreasonable to hold different players to different standards.
"If everybody is perfect, then nobody is."
~~~~~~
How far behind are you at the moment? 2600 posts is a ton for a day 1, though I'm happy that we have such high activity; it's a good sign for the future and makes at least some people here potentially easier to read.
Mmm. The buddying up to me bit rubbed me the wrong way while it was happening, but I didn't realize he tried it so many times.
hmmm I actually never noticed, either. sure sign of a good scumgame if he's this good a player everyone says he is. might lean on Osie for town if Iso flips scum.. then again, you probably factored that into your Osie read. (am I imagining things?)
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Yeah, but it's at least a bit more than just that, as several of those of us on his wagon have elaborated. And besides, Iso's flip is potentially very informative, likely, IMO, even more so than Jenna's.
Yeah, but it's at least a bit more than just that, as several of those of us on his wagon have elaborated. And besides, Iso's flip is potentially very informative, likely, IMO, even more so than Jenna's.
Fun fact. I've never been in an Iso game where he has gone off. And only ever seen him durdle.
well... there was this 1 game where a good scumhunter trolled the town by lurking, just to read meta from the new faces (me included), when he was about to be lynched we flipped over to a paranoia lynch since he claimed. wondering if this is Iso. gg I hope not
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
powerwolfing is just pushing mislynches. none of that bussing or trying to look towny.
it has nothing to do with HOW you do it.
its basically just "playing to your win condition"
did we not talk about this in low fantasy scumchat?
no only that, but it could also be someone who hard defends their scum buddy, which I saw in my last game from the scum team...
powerwolfing means perfect victory so yeah
just remembered I did have a good theory on distinguishing powerwolfing there - townreads on more than half their team (the person reading included)
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Grapefruit could be pocketing LnG then (even Azrael doesn't see the town in him and heck I townread the guy).
from my experience, Grapefruit isn't this reserved as town. he would waffle or develop theories, but stick to solid facts if he's scum. I'm seeing scum, and would gladly have him lynched. but Iso first I guess.
I agree GF is way to reserved, but the different between the last few games he was in is the fact that hes back home and has a job lol. You can only do what your time provides which is why meta reading really doesnt get people far.
As for Iso Im still not seeing what you all are, i read both those 2 links so why are you willing to base his alignment off of the meta of 1 town game and 1 scum game? Another thing your switch to iso seemed more like a sheep than anything.
I'll respond to you as best as I can if you stop being so clingy. thanks.
meta does get people far, it quickens your processing speed on reading players, compared to a blank slate. Burden of Proficiency or expecting players to be this or that is the negative side of it. I don't think we're using the BoP excuse on Iso, but his overall behavior has been lacking from the usual.
my switch on Iso is to get a train going, much like your willingness to switch votes from me if it will lead to a lynch. I scumread Grapefruit and prefer him lynched, but everyone here is going with Iso, and gave me the reasons, and they aren't against my train of thought. my ideal lynch is still Grapefruit.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Was reading on my phone earlier and someone (I want to say kaba but not sure) said that this wagon will hopefully either kill scumiso or wake towniso the **** up and that's a great thought. Impressed he got there just by reading us talking about it and not from knowing iso.
So townpoints to (kaba?)
I'm staying where I am unless iso can show me he gives a ***** about solving this game.
And again, "lynch jenna because she doesn't make any sense" isn't going towards that even if she is scum
How can anyone not get a good read on the playerbase wen we're at 2k posts?
You say this but have some people at neutral still do you not?
the few that are in neutral are the ones who haven't posted enough, like Kaba and Megiddo. scumreading them just for being inactive is rather fake. you have plenty of players in your neutral as well, even more than me.
looking back at your reply to Last, may I ask why you scumread Osie? and why was I at 3rd place of your scumreads, but the one you're most confident of lynching?
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Fun fact. I've never been in an Iso game where he has gone off. And only ever seen him durdle.
So do you think he should just be excused? That's a dangerous precedent regardless
No but I think using it to lynch on the other hand is just as bad.
Which is what the wagon is on him.
How do you see one but not the other as a bad argument?
Because doing nothing is not pro-town regardless of his usual playstyle. I think the argument about this being much different than his usual style is just a supporting point. As I said, I've never played with him before and he still looks scummy, so I imagine that's not the only mark against him.
Furthermore, there are a lot of reasons to vote/pressure players, not just lynching them (and no one is calling to end the day right now). Maybe the pressure will get him going, or his reactions will offer insight to his alignment. Either way, it's better than just letting him coast.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Be grateful, always."
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I mean Ik you guys know him better than me, I was mostly refering to Dawns reasoning which is more than a sheep and less of her own reasons. So you believe this is one of his weaker scum games?
Would a town aligned person actually do that?
Considering he was town in that game, I would say yes.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Oh wait i read your post wrong nvm lol ignore my question I thought you meant this game
This is either the worst incarnation of town iso anyone has ever seen, or an iso scum game.
Well, he did, and it's not unusual for him. If you're just that good at your job, but it's tough to get people to do what you know is right, it's a pretty natural response to want to lay it all out there and make sure people understand your track record. It doesn't always come off as very nice or pleasant, but it's a tough line for him to walk between helping his teammates as much as he can, and just telling them they're just not as good at this as he is and need to fall in line if they want to win.
I mean, I agree that it's a concern, but the scum case on Iso has been explained outside of meta as well. And he's definitely being a wet noodle.
Chris! I actually came from the same community as him. He recently started playing again over there so maybe he'll come back here eventually
Even apart from that, you could make a standard lurking and response to pressure case against him. But the meta highlights how drastically deviant this is for him, and the mentality fits.
If the MU champs game taught me anything, it's that although meta can be super easy to do the wrong way, it's way more critical than I ever gave it credit for, for understanding where someone's head is at in a particular game. Just look at all the inter-site things we've had here, and how strongly it has affected various posters. It is a big piece of the puzzle, and here, it represents the bulk of the underwater iceberg.
One thing that sticks out is him buddying to Azreal. I get the feeling Az is a strong town player (though I've never played with him, he seems like it!). There are several times he does this:
"@Az, @Axel: Let's mindmeld. Tell me where you're at and why. I think you two have a good chance of being town and I feel like you're two of the stronger analysts in the game - so let's figure this out."
He first says he is "mostly fine" with Az, then "Az doesn't smell like his scummy self" and then he says Az has a good chance of being town, never explaining what he likes about him though.
"Hi, please don’t answer questions directed at other players. Thanks!"
The man who asked the question was Azreal. Why not let Azreal tell him not to answer? It's subtle but perhaps trying to get on Az's good side because he fears him as a strong town player?
"@Az: What are your thoughts on my reasoning behind my reads, whether stated outright or implied? I think my stances on the game are pretty apparent at this point. I'm trying not to get too hung up on the details of making massive posts or PBPAs or ISOs or whatever because I'm still trying to enjoy the game, but get my thoughts out there. Does that make sense?
Anyway, do you trust me? And if so, can I betray you tonight? It's important that we get my ability active ASAP."
If Iso is this force of nature as Town that can figure out the scum team in 100 posts, like I'm hearing, why does he seek vindication from Az? I imagine he has a lot more confidence in his ability than to need Az to back him up. Looks like he's trying to get into Az's circle of town.
"Az, you don’t have to pretend to scumread me to keep me alive."
Very confident that Az is town but still hasn't explained why. Feels like buddying to me
"Az/Axelrod - From early on, I've felt no guile from these two - they're being fairly straightforward in their thought processes and the way they're seeing and approaching the game. I have no issues with basically anything either of them have done."
Along with all the other stuff, he puts Azreal at the top of his town list, and his reasoning is just that he's straightforward and he has no issues with. I don't feel like he really has enough reasoning to be this confident that Azreal is town, especially before he turned it up a few days ago.
D_V votes Azreal and puts him on a scum list, Iso finds the time to call him out on it specifically
"@Az: ... Also, you're being a really bad townbuddy right now by calling me scum and I don't appreciate it. "
More buddying Az
Jenna calls Az scum but says she will Ally him, to which Az replies "lol". Iso quotes this and says +1
I understand Iso is on limited time, but he uses an awful lot of that time buddying to Azreal and I'm not a fan. I haven't played with Iso before so I tried looking at him as someone without that lens, and he still looks pretty scummy buddying up to Az this hard.
What's the vote count? I would vote him but I'm not sure how close he is to being hammered
Unofficial Votecount (Assuming Tom's previous unofficial votecount was accurate):
iso (5): tom, osi, kj, dawning, az
jenna (4): iso, joe, dv, axel
whisper (3): phoenix, grape, lngrr
dawning (1): shin
osi (1): whisper
grape (1): jenna
Not Voting (2): megs, kaba
~~~~~
@Tom: To be fair, I also had a less-than-accurate definition of powerwolfing.
So do you think he should just be excused? That's a dangerous precedent regardless
No but I think using it to lynch on the other hand is just as bad.
Which is what the wagon is on him.
How do you see one but not the other as a bad argument?
Because doing nothing is not pro-town regardless of his usual playstyle. I think the argument about this being much different than his usual style is just a supporting point. As I said, I've never played with him before and he still looks scummy, so I imagine that's not the only mark against him.
Furthermore, there are a lot of reasons to vote/pressure players, not just lynching them (and no one is calling to end the day right now). Maybe the pressure will get him going, or his reactions will offer insight to his alignment. Either way, it's better than just letting him coast.
But ok then.
"Even less" - Really?
1. It's more than twice as many posts, albeit with potentially less average useful material per post, but still...
2. She's making an effort to play, and to catch up (despite being relatively new to the game).
3. She's made serious arguments, expressed her opinions (albeit not always very clearly), and, while her posting style may make it seem less-than-organic, she's clearly evolved her reads (at least in some cases).
This post comes to mind in that vein.
As does this post.
Like, yeah, she's in no way a perfect player. But while experience arguments are awkward and not the greatest, it's just such a glaring factor in the comparison of Jenna and Iso.
And besides, you were in Maelstrom. Jenna's not doing the "I'm a new player, so I'm confused" scum tactic that was used there (Uggh). Iso IS doing something comparable considering his experience.
Like, I can see that you might feel that someone else is a better lynch. But I'm wouldn't agree that Iso is a bad lynch.
I mean, a lot of us want to kill them both, but I think osie's response is also valid as to that.
If Iso wasn't the player you think he is would it be though?
Is being who he is makes it a lot more obvious what is going on in his head right now.
The meta cases I hate are the ones that go "player x looks like he did in game y." Well, of course they do, it's the same person.
But if you know how someone plays as both town and scum, you know which traits are alignment indicative, and you also know why they play in each of those different ways because of their personality, it's a perfectly reliable technique to say when you think that you see their scum traits showing.
Quotes like this will get me to return. Very flattered, Azrael. I have had a very busy year but I am hopeful I can resume playing mafia here sooner rather than later.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
You and D_V are only looking at one dimension. It's not only his reputation, or his lack of contribution, or his buddying to Azreal. It's a combination of several things
I don't think it's unreasonable to hold different players to different standards. That said, there are other factors other than just contribution level.
"If everybody is perfect, then nobody is."
~~~~~~
How far behind are you at the moment? 2600 posts is a ton for a day 1, though I'm happy that we have such high activity; it's a good sign for the future and makes at least some people here potentially easier to read.
Be grateful, always."
Be grateful, always."
Hence my problem with holding Iso accountable.
Be grateful, always."
Yeah, but it's at least a bit more than just that, as several of those of us on his wagon have elaborated. And besides, Iso's flip is potentially very informative, likely, IMO, even more so than Jenna's.
Its really not though.
Be grateful, always."
just remembered I did have a good theory on distinguishing powerwolfing there - townreads on more than half their team (the person reading included)
Be grateful, always."
I'll respond to you as best as I can if you stop being so clingy. thanks.
meta does get people far, it quickens your processing speed on reading players, compared to a blank slate. Burden of Proficiency or expecting players to be this or that is the negative side of it. I don't think we're using the BoP excuse on Iso, but his overall behavior has been lacking from the usual.
my switch on Iso is to get a train going, much like your willingness to switch votes from me if it will lead to a lynch. I scumread Grapefruit and prefer him lynched, but everyone here is going with Iso, and gave me the reasons, and they aren't against my train of thought. my ideal lynch is still Grapefruit.
Be grateful, always."
So townpoints to (kaba?)
I'm staying where I am unless iso can show me he gives a ***** about solving this game.
And again, "lynch jenna because she doesn't make any sense" isn't going towards that even if she is scum
looking back at your reply to Last, may I ask why you scumread Osie? and why was I at 3rd place of your scumreads, but the one you're most confident of lynching?
Be grateful, always."
:waves:
vvvvvvvvvv
Be grateful, always."