I was reading Wheat's posts during the night phase (aka my second soft scumread from yesterDay) and indeed found many things I didn't like. Tomorrow first thing in the morning for me will be an evaluation of his posts for me to share with you all.
And probably a reconsideration of my read on shadowlx.
And a look at Terry, I haven't been a fan of his posts, and I'm even starting to think that his entrance to the thread was weirdly acclaimed. But mostly the issue is the recent posts.
I was reading Wheat's posts during the night phase (aka my second soft scumread from yesterDay) and indeed found many things I didn't like. Tomorrow first thing in the morning for me will be an evaluation of his posts for me to share with you all.
And probably a reconsideration of my read on shadowlx.
And a look at Terry, I haven't been a fan of his posts, and I'm even starting to think that his entrance to the thread was weirdly acclaimed. But mostly the issue is the recent posts.
I wasn't a fan on how many people town read me because of my entrance either. I've been on vacation IRL, so don't expect too much out of my posts the last 10 or so real days. Do me a favor and engage me, I'd really like to see more action in this game.
I think the cfd, needs to be discussed heavily today, since it basically cost us a lynch. I'm sorry I wasnt there at end of day and for the record I probably would have voted for a kpaca lynch over a no lynch. I thought I had more into the day, but since I'm in a new time zone I missed. I'm not dure, but I also would have voted shin over no lynch too. We need to lynch people before the deadline. Cfds are super suspect. Who started it?
The CFD most certainly did not cost a lynch, we had 5 votes on Shin and 2 people that said they absolutely would not vote him, so we moved to kpaca, because we might have at least had a chance. Also, CFDs are only suspect later in the game when you can see some of the wagonomics as well as the alignments of the players in question. Like sure, if shin is scum and kpaca/proph is town, then yeah, it's pretty suspect, but it's certainly not like all 3 scum chain voted to CFD.
Frankly, I still think we need to sort Shin/proph. Vote Shin
The people who didnt want to lynch me obviously had some kind of gut feelings, wouldn't it be to obvious if any of those people were scum with me or if i was even scum in general. Though I am here if you wanna sort me out.
I think the cfd, needs to be discussed heavily today, since it basically cost us a lynch. I'm sorry I wasnt there at end of day and for the record I probably would have voted for a kpaca lynch over a no lynch. I thought I had more into the day, but since I'm in a new time zone I missed. I'm not dure, but I also would have voted shin over no lynch too. We need to lynch people before the deadline. Cfds are super suspect. Who started it?
IF i may ask what is CFD stand for? I regret not voting tbh i did not expect a majority lynch to not be reached, I just didnt wanna plae my vote on a lynch i could not be around for.
Change effing direction... CFD. It's a derailment of the current wagon onto another. This one, at deadline, away from kproph to shin. If it turns out that kproph is scum, the wagon onto shin would be very telling.
Goosey goosey gander,
Whither shall I wander?
Upstairs and downstairs
And in my lady's chamber.
There I met a young boy
Who wouldn't say his prayers,
So I took him by his scrawny neck
And threw him down the stairs.
I wasn't a fan on how many people town read me because of my entrance either. I've been on vacation IRL, so don't expect too much out of my posts the last 10 or so real days. Do me a favor and engage me, I'd really like to see more action in this game.
I do have to say that this post gives me some town vibes. No need for scum to stir the pot by questioning the townreads on them and him going "do me a favor and engage me" is something that I don't see scum do often.
JT I'll try to be around tomorrow afternoon-ish if you need someone to engage with in real time.
I was reading Wheat's posts during the night phase (aka my second soft scumread from yesterDay) and indeed found many things I didn't like. Tomorrow first thing in the morning for me will be an evaluation of his posts for me to share with you all.
And probably a reconsideration of my read on shadowlx.
And a look at Terry, I haven't been a fan of his posts, and I'm even starting to think that his entrance to the thread was weirdly acclaimed. But mostly the issue is the recent posts.
What exactly do you think is problematic about JT's most recent posts? Literally all of his posts from this Day phase, before you posted, were:
1) I'm on vacation
2) CFD needs to be discussed heavily today
3) Let's vote RE
I think the cfd, needs to be discussed heavily today, since it basically cost us a lynch. I'm sorry I wasnt there at end of day and for the record I probably would have voted for a kpaca lynch over a no lynch. I thought I had more into the day, but since I'm in a new time zone I missed. I'm not dure, but I also would have voted shin over no lynch too. We need to lynch people before the deadline. Cfds are super suspect. Who started it?
What? We No Lynched because there were only like, five players around at deadline and everyone kept pussyfooting around killing someone.
---
Someone gave me a one-shot Vanilla Cop ability. I couldn't decide between using it on Rhand or Shinichi, since both claimed power, so I used it on Rhand. Oh well.
Vote Shinichi
Not a claim made by scum. Welcome to Townsville vaimes.
I think the cfd, needs to be discussed heavily today, since it basically cost us a lynch. I'm sorry I wasnt there at end of day and for the record I probably would have voted for a kpaca lynch over a no lynch. I thought I had more into the day, but since I'm in a new time zone I missed. I'm not dure, but I also would have voted shin over no lynch too. We need to lynch people before the deadline. Cfds are super suspect. Who started it?
What? We No Lynched because there were only like, five players around at deadline and everyone kept pussyfooting around killing someone.
---
Someone gave me a one-shot Vanilla Cop ability. I couldn't decide between using it on Rhand or Shinichi, since both claimed power, so I used it on Rhand. Oh well.
Vote Shinichi
Not a claim made by scum. Welcome to Townsville vaimes.
Haha, I take that back. I just thought of a pretty good reason that's a scum claim. I'll let the two balance out for now, but it could also be vaimes saying, hey tracker I totally targeted rhand last night, but I totally didn't murder him.
One more V/LA day. Sorry everyone. This vacation is killing my mafia time.
Quickest of quick catchups.
Shin still being suspect. QH, Vaimes, Proph, and JT off to good starts, but have one big red flag for Proph. Want to see how it develops though as this feels like town Proph otherwise.
Also slightly weirded out by the focus on the CFD. The fact that all the moves were largely the same group and it moving off of Rhand makes it not worrying to me.
RE1031 I take back the Shadow/Mind thing. I checked my notes and it wasn't what I thought it was on reread. Thought Mind did something that shadow would have reacted too (knowing Bare Bones and unreliable Shots) but it didn't actually happen the way I thought it did. As for you v Terry going to keep that to myself a bit longer.
Grapefruit, Vaimes, shadow are all pretty strongly town.
AG/Mind I think.
I agree on the vaimes and Grapefruit, a little on shadow, and i agree that the scum is prob between mind and AG. I mean ag it seems like he sheeped the vote more than anything.
Also maybe it's a consequence of playing on MU too much but you guys seriously need to post more. Since emerging from the Champs game I've gained a new found view of how strong real time interactions can be.
I would like that too but between work and my gaming distractions soemtimes that doesnt happen. Though i feel like mafia would benefit more from real time interactions dont you think?
So basically, we're going to repeat what we did day 1. Pressure someone into claiming, or soft claiming, and then have them get night killed.
Also, where did Shinichi claim exactly? I did not see it at all... In any case, I highly doubt I will be voting for Shinichi. Yes, he's been contradicting himself, but that's not even remotely scummy. Really, all the reads on him have only been pointing out the obvious.
1. How is contradicting oneself "not even remotely scummy"? Contradictions, in a vacuum, are fairly indicative of a mafia mindset IMO.
2. How are the reads on him pointing out the obvious?
3. Now that Rhand has flipped town, who are you going to vote for? Who do you think is scum?
It should be scummy idk what she is talking about, but i do it alot regardless of alignment which is what i think shes trying to point out.
For us MS players i feel like they're but not for the players who don't know us well.
Looking forward to your thoughts on WG, since I just can't seem to stop thinking about him all the time.
Dont get to comfortable with those vibes tho i still find it highly doubtful the kpaca/crossbell is scum, i also believe that cross will never show any anti town or scum traits at all.
And yeah, my major issues with Shinichi right now are 1) complete lack of scumhunting (you could argue that his questions to people are him figuring out the game, but I have seen 0 signs of him using that information to do anything), 2) complete lack of voting and having a voting record, 3) giving wishy-washy reads on people and situations, and 4) saying he randomly claimed at some point on D1 but didn't explain why when I asked him.
Caph and mal would be ashamed if I were to let this slot live.
1.Excuse me for not putting my thoughts out to the world XD.
2.I can't deny that, but ill be voting soon enough.
3. I don't like reads in general cause i suck at them.
So basically, we're going to repeat what we did day 1. Pressure someone into claiming, or soft claiming, and then have them get night killed.
Also, where did Shinichi claim exactly? I did not see it at all... In any case, I highly doubt I will be voting for Shinichi. Yes, he's been contradicting himself, but that's not even remotely scummy. Really, all the reads on him have only been pointing out the obvious.
1. How is contradicting oneself "not even remotely scummy"? Contradictions, in a vacuum, are fairly indicative of a mafia mindset IMO.
2. How are the reads on him pointing out the obvious?
3. Now that Rhand has flipped town, who are you going to vote for? Who do you think is scum?
Because in essence, I've never actually seen scum who do that... The only reason Shinichi is contradicting himself is because he's responding to everything. He's just challenging reasoning that doesn't cut it (to him, anyway). If it were anybody else, I'd find it weird. The reads on him are basically "contradicting = scum." It just feels extremely shallow.
vote: AtheistGod
I'm sad he didn't get lynched yesterday. Also Grapefruit's summary is bias af. Rhand got killed most likely because he soft claimed. I don't think there's much other to it than that. I'm focusing on AG and WG, and then a slightly lesser extent, Grapefruit and Terry.
If we go by that, then i soft claimed to yet im still alive. I find it weird that rhand died because honestly he was gonna be a huge lynch durig this phase so mafia took care of alot of chaos by getting rid of him. I believe someone who was pushing rhand alot is prob scum.
I dont respond to everything, i respond to most of it lol.
Actually, and I hate to say this, I believe Vaimes as far as receiving this ability, but the fact he investigated the person who died is kinda scummy. If he's town, he couldn't have known, but it's very convenient for scum to use an active on the person they kill. That way, they don't have to clear another potential lynch target.
It really could go both ways, but I'm not willing to overlook this completely.
Convientent sure, my brother this that is another game. It's like you said though how can you prove it? Actually we prob can prove it once we can figure who and why they would want rhand dead, subtracting the possibility of the soft claim.
@Mindreaver: Which vote(s) do you see as scum jumping onto kpaca's wagon?
God that sounds so cocky. Like "it was me, hahaha, and you can't say that I jumped, since i was first!". Just read it as totally gloating.
I think you were the most suspect (kettle screams the pot should be lynched because of how black it is). And like I said, I wasn't dazzled by shadow's vote either (buried in a wall of spliced posts, his reasoning was "I want to lynch Shinichi/kpaca, and since kpaca already has a wagon:". Like, the biggest "pass the buck" move ever. The ONLY redeeming think there, is that he might have been trying to force kpaca to claim. But I think even that is meeting him more than half way (like, would town need to force anyone to claim who has been posting this little?). I think if I was looking for scum, it's one of you two.
Its possible they wanted to see if Kpaca was worth all the effort, if he didnt have a PR there prob be no reason for scum to focus him even if he was an esay train so their best bet was to get him to claim. It's like RE i think she said it but the whole train was shady and just felt to easy. Now that crossbell took the mantle im about 80% sure cross is town, which obviously makes kpaca town.
Another thing would AG ask such an obvious question and risk giving himself away? Does anyone know the answer to this.
Proph, can you talk to me about Shinichi's response the the kpaca town read on him, where he basically said "clearly that guy is so in tune to know I'm town, duh!" Specifically, to me it looks like a super clumsy attempt for scum buddies to town read each other, and seeing as how that would make you scum, I'm interested in your thoughts on it.
Also, do you remember Avalon at all? And if not, what other games have you played with AG in?
Hmm? I even stated that I was worried that he was town reading me so easily, never stated because im town he has to be town.
I literally do not remember anything about Avalon, other than that I knew the entire scum team plus the game wasn't mafia. I don't really remember the last game I've played with AG.
(Fun fact: I tried looking at my mafia stats to find that out, and most of the links were broken. Oops)
I'm not really sure what to make about Shinichi townreading my slot just because kpaca was townreading him. All Shinichi said about it was:
Quote from Shinichi »
3. kpaca (Town) - Like I said in a recent post he's more neutral/town lean than anything, his town read on me doesnt feel as sloppy as others make it out to be, honestly he's prob just noticecd something that others haven't.
It.. feels like Shinichi is trying to buddy up/trying to get on the good side of people who are townreading him, so that they would continue to defend him?
Was more a less a read because he hadnt done anything particularly scummy or town. I just felt like his read wasnt as bad as everyone was saying, i only questioned it because i was just surprised he actually town read me.
I think the cfd, needs to be discussed heavily today, since it basically cost us a lynch. I'm sorry I wasnt there at end of day and for the record I probably would have voted for a kpaca lynch over a no lynch. I thought I had more into the day, but since I'm in a new time zone I missed. I'm not dure, but I also would have voted shin over no lynch too. We need to lynch people before the deadline. Cfds are super suspect. Who started it?
What? We No Lynched because there were only like, five players around at deadline and everyone kept pussyfooting around killing someone.
---
Someone gave me a one-shot Vanilla Cop ability. I couldn't decide between using it on Rhand or Shinichi, since both claimed power, so I used it on Rhand. Oh well.
Vote Shinichi
Im sad now i have to somehow clear myself which i tend to be really *****ty at. Though i'm curious of why you choose rhand over me when i was the one you would never take your eye off of.
I'd wager the PR who gave me the ability is town. If mafia gave it to me, then they risk me checking a PR buddy who might want to claim Vanilla, or checking a Goon who might want to fakeclaim PR.
Scum would only give me the ability for towncred, but that's a lot thinner.
Ok thanks then its safe to say the person who gave you it is town, and i think i can figure out who gave you the aiblity just from this information.
I think the cfd, needs to be discussed heavily today, since it basically cost us a lynch. I'm sorry I wasnt there at end of day and for the record I probably would have voted for a kpaca lynch over a no lynch. I thought I had more into the day, but since I'm in a new time zone I missed. I'm not dure, but I also would have voted shin over no lynch too. We need to lynch people before the deadline. Cfds are super suspect. Who started it?
The CFD most certainly did not cost a lynch, we had 5 votes on Shin and 2 people that said they absolutely would not vote him, so we moved to kpaca, because we might have at least had a chance. Also, CFDs are only suspect later in the game when you can see some of the wagonomics as well as the alignments of the players in question. Like sure, if shin is scum and kpaca/proph is town, then yeah, it's pretty suspect, but it's certainly not like all 3 scum chain voted to CFD.
Frankly, I still think we need to sort Shin/proph. Vote Shin
The people who didnt want to lynch me obviously had some kind of gut feelings, wouldn't it be to obvious if any of those people were scum with me or if i was even scum in general. Though I am here if you wanna sort me out.
I think the cfd, needs to be discussed heavily today, since it basically cost us a lynch. I'm sorry I wasnt there at end of day and for the record I probably would have voted for a kpaca lynch over a no lynch. I thought I had more into the day, but since I'm in a new time zone I missed. I'm not dure, but I also would have voted shin over no lynch too. We need to lynch people before the deadline. Cfds are super suspect. Who started it?
IF i may ask what is CFD stand for? I regret not voting tbh i did not expect a majority lynch to not be reached, I just didnt wanna plae my vote on a lynch i could not be around for.
Change effing direction... CFD. It's a derailment of the current wagon onto another. This one, at deadline, away from kproph to shin. If it turns out that kproph is scum, the wagon onto shin would be very telling.
Oh ok that makes sense, sadly kpaca was never going to get night killed and right now cross is to townie to be lynched. So i feel like we don't be able to figure that out unless i get lynched.
I think u did a swell job explaining me so far, your most def right here. TBF I don't wanna be lynched either.
I don't want to hear about if my read is correct or not. I want to hear about you
1) Finding scum
2) Lynching them
3) Finding town
4) Stating with conviction WHY you think they are town
Vaimes is completely right when he says that you haven't really done ANY OF THOSE THINGS.
Only 2 people im truly convinced have the highest chance of being town that would be vaimes and grapefruit. Shadow and AG seem to have the highest chance of being scum in my book.
Vaimes conviction on me is the biggest reason I think hes town. He's never played with me before so he cant know my meta, so it would make more sense for someone to being pushing me so hard for the way im playing.
I can't recall the last time or if I even played a game where GF was scum, but through this game he hasnt done anyting that would make me think he scum. Plus like vaimes his conviction on me is hindsight that hes probably town, because I know for a fact he would not sheep me knowing the way i play unless he was town.
Grapefruit, Vaimes, shadow are all pretty strongly town.
AG/Mind I think.
I agree on the vaimes and Grapefruit, a little on shadow, and i agree that the scum is prob between mind and AG. I mean ag it seems like he sheeped the vote more than anything.
Only 2 people im truly convinced have the highest chance of being town that would be vaimes and grapefruit. Shadow and AG seem to have the highest chance of being scum in my book.
What exactly changed in the last hour? The only post not by you between these was my OoG post, I do not believe you forget that easily, you're scum just making crap up as you go.
If we go by that, then i soft claimed to yet im still alive. I find it weird that rhand died because honestly he was gonna be a huge lynch durig this phase so mafia took care of alot of chaos by getting rid of him. I believe someone who was pushing rhand alot is prob scum.
I dont respond to everything, i respond to most of it lol.
Okay, is nobody gonna tell me where you (soft) claimed? lmao
Well, they probably couldn't kill two people. Rhand made it way more obvious that he was PR. Plus your lynch was gaining a lot more popularity by the end of day 1.
Why would scum kill someone they pushing? Isn't it usually the other way around? They probably balanced it out - getting rid of a power role is worth taking away some of the chaos. And sadly "deathguard" sounds something a lot like a doctor.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Grapefruit, Vaimes, shadow are all pretty strongly town.
AG/Mind I think.
I agree on the vaimes and Grapefruit, a little on shadow, and i agree that the scum is prob between mind and AG. I mean ag it seems like he sheeped the vote more than anything.
Only 2 people im truly convinced have the highest chance of being town that would be vaimes and grapefruit. Shadow and AG seem to have the highest chance of being scum in my book.
What exactly changed in the last hour? The only post not by you between these was my OoG post, I do not believe you forget that easily, you're scum just making crap up as you go.
Are you sure about that or are you just not liking the tension?
If we go by that, then i soft claimed to yet im still alive. I find it weird that rhand died because honestly he was gonna be a huge lynch durig this phase so mafia took care of alot of chaos by getting rid of him. I believe someone who was pushing rhand alot is prob scum.
I dont respond to everything, i respond to most of it lol.
Okay, is nobody gonna tell me where you (soft) claimed? lmao
Well, they probably couldn't kill two people. Rhand made it way more obvious that he was PR. Plus your lynch was gaining a lot more popularity by the end of day 1.
Why would scum kill someone they pushing? Isn't it usually the other way around? They probably balanced it out - getting rid of a power role is worth taking away some of the chaos. And sadly "deathguard" sounds something a lot like a doctor.
Twice now actually lol
I would hope they could only kill 1 person or i be realy worried right now. Well tbf any role with an ability is PR so no way they could have known his role was that strong. I'm not sure why he needed to soft claim anyways, it seemed like he was still supicious regardless of that claim.
I would hope they could only kill 1 person or i be realy worried right now. Well tbf any role with an ability is PR so no way they could have known his role was that strong. I'm not sure why he needed to soft claim anyways, it seemed like he was still supicious regardless of that claim.
I'll take that as a no... :'(
Well, he asked if he should claim, which implied he wasn't a vanilla townie, and then he never did claim. I think he was just worried he was going to get lynched.
Wait. I just realized something. Death's head moth is an actual moth. Deathguard is a play on words. So Rhand's actual role might just be "guard," short for "bodyguard." Actually I have no idea. It'd be nice if a description of the role was given with the death notice.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Here's a collection of posts from Wheat which are filled with what RE1031 called "blind certainty." And a couple others. Basically, these are all the posts where he voices an opinion on a player. If any of you want to reread his posts, this is a good place for it! If you only want my basic thoughts on him, you can probably skip the spoiler.
Ok, caught up. Ummm, I'm not excited by anything so far... I mean besides the flavor posts which are GREAT! People aren't doing anything eye popping yet. I'll check back later and start some fires.
Also I think you read this post wrong, or maybe my grammar just sucks. I was saying should i be worried that the person who i said was aggresive announced that he had a slight town read on me. I wasn't implying i town read him but like I said my grammar ****ed that sentence up pretty badly.
I did misread it like that.
That's okay, because you're probably still town anyway.
It seems that, regardless of their alignments, poking at kpaca and WG isn't going to be very productive. I can already see myself getting annoyed at them, so I'll let other people handle that unless either of those two have specific questions for me.
Town: Vaimes
Townlean: Grapefruit, WG, QH, RE1031
Null: Roger Sherman, Joe Terry, AG, Mindreaver, shadowlancerx
Scumlean: kpaca, Shinichi
Scum:
---
@shadow
Can you tell me why you like Grapefruit, why you unvoted kpaca, and what you expect kpaca to do as a result? Please be specific.
I think Grapefruit is town, specifically for 107. Glad WG agrees with me!
I'm okay with the way WG is handling me, though I'm loathe to actually interact with him.
RE1031 just kind of feels agenda-less.
QH is more of a shrugread. I think it'd be weird for scum to be accused of making large empty posts, by responding to that accusation with an even bigger wallpost going over his own past posts to make a point. Reads more as towny defiance/snark.
@Wheat Sure so there are a couple things commiting reads to the record is a good sign. It's harder to back out of them later if you get them out early so I like the existence of those two posts.
Second I really like his QH read.
Third and weaker I like his tale on RE. It looks super sketchy, but it rings true to me. If either of them were to flip scum it would make me look at the other but RE is raising valid points without really driving anything which doesn't scream scummy. In short I like his town reads.
It seems that, regardless of their alignments, poking at kpaca and WG isn't going to be very productive. I can already see myself getting annoyed at them, so I'll let other people handle that unless either of those two have specific questions for me.
Town: Vaimes
Townlean: Grapefruit, WG, QH, RE1031
Null: Roger Sherman, Joe Terry, AG, Mindreaver, shadowlancerx
Scumlean: kpaca, Shinichi
Scum:
---
@shadow
Can you tell me why you like Grapefruit, why you unvoted kpaca, and what you expect kpaca to do as a result? Please be specific.
What I see here is an effort to extend an olive branch instead of actually being concerned about a read even superficially, and...
I think Grapefruit is town, specifically for 107. Glad WG agrees with me!
I'm okay with the way WG is handling me, though I'm loathe to actually interact with him.
RE1031 just kind of feels agenda-less.
QH is more of a shrugread. I think it'd be weird for scum to be accused of making large empty posts, by responding to that accusation with an even bigger wallpost going over his own past posts to make a point. Reads more as towny defiance/snark.
I can only recall one game I played in with WG, some micro with a cult mechanic. He scumread me most of D1 for some reason, can't remember and don't feel like looking it up, then he reversed his read on me when I self-voted. Basically I feel like he's handling me in a similar fashion.
Though the way he's handling me also means that trying to interact with him will suck the fun out of the game for me. It gives off a very "you're scum so I don't care about anything you have to say," vibe, which I don't feel like subjecting myself to. So I'll interact with other people and he'll see I'm town sooner or later.
Why is Vaimes STILL talking about me if he thinks I'm town?? He seems very concerned about what I think, and is very interested in talking about it all the time. His other reads are extremely superficial, with no hard scum reads, which further drives home the fact that he *does not care* about hunting scum right now. He only cares about currying favor from me.
Well that was an incredibly self-centered twist on my posts.
In what universe does not having a hard, no brakes, this guy is 100% mafia scumread = not caring about scumhunting?
I talked about you a little more because shadow asked me about my read on you. Did you miss his post? Do you think I have a crush on you and can't help myself?
Frankly, I don't care about you more or less than any other player in this game, nor have I gone out of my way to talk about you. I'm "pocketing" you about as much as I pocketed Grapefruit, which is to say I don't really want to lynch either of you and would appreciate the opportunity to discuss reads with people I don't think are mafia.
I saw Shadow's post. I saw your reply. I ignored that post because there was actually a reason for it.
I failed to see a convincing reason that you were so focused on saying you had nothing on me and weren't pursuing me, while also not pursuing anyone else.
I don't care that you don't have a balls to the wall scumread - I mentioned it because it would make more sense if you had one. I care that you're *not trying to hunt for one*.
Explains his townread on Shinichi (continued) and drives Vaimes in a corner by forcing his play
I failed to see a convincing reason that you were so focused on saying you had nothing on me and weren't pursuing me, while also not pursuing anyone else.
I don't care that you don't have a balls to the wall scumread - I mentioned it because it would make more sense if you had one. I care that you're *not trying to hunt for one*.
What about you? Are we talking about scumreads or not?
There have been very, very few games where I've 1) had a hard/definitive scumread, or 2) looked for one. I find people I believe to be town and shruglynch my way through everyone else with constant reevaluation. This is, has been, and for the foreseeable future, will always be true. I'm not going to change my playstyle just because you think I need to play a certain way to townread me.
As it is, I'm in the process of using Shinichi to figure out the game as best I can. If you want to sell me on him being town, since you were so sparse on your earlier explanation(s), feel free. Other people's reads haven't done it for me.
I don't recall that playstyle from you. That said, I also don't mind being wrong. I'll reread Titanic Ultimatum soon. If you do play like that, then I'll reconsider the read. But if you don't play like that, it's the last nail in the coffin because it means you're trying to play like you think you do when you're town.
And, if it's truly your playstyle to not do anything and shruglynch...I'm disappointed. You should try harder than that.
In the meantime, as for Shinichi - there's a certain type of player who does scummy things without malice. It's the malice part that makes that sort of player actually scum.
Townreads Mindreaver + more on Shinichi, Terry, Vaimes + scumreads RE1031
Vaimes is 100% scum, RE1031 is his buddy (both for chainsawing and on his own).
Grapefruit, Mindreaver, and Shinichi are all town.
Terry is lean town.
I don't have strong thoughts about Quickhoodies or Rhand.
I have strong feelings about kpaca which are ultimately inconclusive on their own. Vaimes' behavior makes me lean town on him overall though.
AtheistGod is really far in the background it feels like. And I have a gut bad feeling about shadow. I'm thinking one of those two is likely the third scum but there's really just not enough there.
If Vaimes is scum, RE is scum without question.
If Vaimes is town, RE probably isn't scum. It doesn't feel like a pocket attempt to me, which is the requirement for town Vaimes, scum RE.
I see kpaca, Shinichi, and Rhand being floated as possible lynch targets. I don't like the idea of lynching any of them, particularly Shinichi. I don't really feel like kpaca is scum either, and Rhand is someone I'd expect to contribute more later.
AG I wouldn't really be opposed to. Not really in favor, just not against.
Switches his vote from Vaimes to someone who wasn't more likely to get lynched anyway + says he'll change his vote if needed (but didn't afterall - I suppose he wasn't in-thread, like me)
Yeah actually when the content is all focused on saving your own butt.
I still don't get this. Anyone would want his butt saved - if anything, Vaimes has been constantly repeating that he's trying to ignore Wheat's obsessive push on him, and he has been posting satisfactory reads on various players, so it's not like he's all about saving his butt. And besides, considering how hard Wheat was going on him, I think it would only make sense if Vaimes were to be trying his utmost to fight against Wheat's reads and try to not uselessly become a target.
things i don't understand:
kpaca says he doesn't have a strong read on anyone, everybody is okay with it
vaimes says he doesn't have a strong read on anyone, everybody is okay with it
shinichi says he doesn't have a strong read on anyone NOW EVERYONE IS PISSED
Can someone explain to me exactly what the difference is?
As I earlier said: "Is it just me or everything WG says in this post is just false? There are people who weren't okay with kpaca and vaimes' reads. And I'm pretty sure just as many people are okay with Shinichi than not okay with him." I still think this is relevant...
Now to close this off, two posts I like from RE1031 which I actually agree with:
I don't have much of a case but I'm fairly certain Wheat_Grinder is scum. Literally none of their reads make sense and it all seems like scum just trying to look busy. Regardless of whether Vaimes is town or scum (he's more town than scum to me atm), no one should be that focused on one player this early.
@Wheat_Grinder
Who are your suspects besides Vaimes?
Also, please explain clearly why I am automatically scum if Vaimes is scum. This is twice I've been involved in "dichotomies" and it's annoying because I can't actually defend myself from it because there's no incriminating evidence. It's like me saying you are automatically scum if Vaimes is town, or everyone should lynch Terry when I flip town. These if ___, then ___ almost never work in mafia. You have to work with flips AND new information/posts that follow. Town beat up town all the time, and bussing is a thing. Is there anything else besides me thinking your read on Vaimes is backed up by nothing that would indicate that I am scum?
What I can note from all of this:
Wheat proceeds by declaring his reads to everyone, and he always starts without explaining them properly, so as to first see how others will react to them.
Then when asked, he provides his explanations (honestly, it's hard to tell if they were fabricated on-the-post or if he had them before declaring his reads, because some of them are in fact quite solid). The thing about them is that they're always super brief. They're brief yet full of conviction, and such conviction should imply that he genuinely wants pressure/votes on his scumreads (especially Vaimes). However, Vaimes wasn't really being scumread by anyone else. I think that Wheat's brief explanations don't match up with his conviction. It's like there should be an attempt to convince other people, but in the end there isn't, otherwise the explanations would be more lengthy and focused on the contents of the posts he's using to base his reads on.
During the whole phase, Wheat's pool of players is limited to kpaca (on which he goes from a scumread based on a single post to a townread based on the wagon), Shinichi, Terry, and Vaimes (side point, he said somewhere that Vaimes calling RE vs Terry as TvT fight made him feel worse about Vaimes, which I still don't understand why and I wish I did, because I also expressed that I think RE vs Terry is probably town), then once a lynch is being decided, he factors in the rest of the players. This is pretty decent focus-wise (I haven't done any better myself) but by reading all the posts in which he talks about these 4 players I can't help but feel like his reads are often repeated without being embellished with either self-doubting, additional opinion on the same player, or how other players' reads on his own scumreads affect his opinion.
This is all pretty jumbled in my mind, but I think Wheat is now my favorite slot to vote. Hopefully I don't hear my voice echo on the walls of a tunnel, if you know what I mean.
Guys, I really have a good feeling about Shinichi. My dilemma is that this good feeling could come from the fact that I am naturally much more inclined to trust him than other players here because of some kind of familiarity bias (?). Quite literally, each time someone accused Shinichi of doing something scummy, it was for things which I've seen him do as town as well, so the accusations don't strike me as hard as they could. I also think he's having good intentions for the most part, so I guess that's one thing I agree with Wheat on.
Now I should probably check out Terry after my break. Vaimes I think I will get the most ridiculous headache if I go too deeply into him. AG I wish he was vig-shot because then I wouldn't have to deal with him. Proph (welcome) I'll see, but I was one of those who ultimately pitied kpaca (despite still being relatively okay with a lynch) so he's in a good light for me, thank god he should be easier to form an opinion out of. Mindreaver I legit have no clue. His posts have been smart. shadowlx is still a lynch I like, but I might just reset my views on him from D1 and get somewhere with his D2 posts instead. It's true that my suspicions on him yesterday didn't feel properly strong with what I expressed in-thread.
If we go by that, then i soft claimed to yet im still alive. I find it weird that rhand died because honestly he was gonna be a huge lynch durig this phase so mafia took care of alot of chaos by getting rid of him. I believe someone who was pushing rhand alot is prob scum.
I dont respond to everything, i respond to most of it lol.
Okay, is nobody gonna tell me where you (soft) claimed? lmao
Well, they probably couldn't kill two people. Rhand made it way more obvious that he was PR. Plus your lynch was gaining a lot more popularity by the end of day 1.
Why would scum kill someone they pushing? Isn't it usually the other way around? They probably balanced it out - getting rid of a power role is worth taking away some of the chaos. And sadly "deathguard" sounds something a lot like a doctor.
"Im sad now i have to somehow clear myself which i tend to be really *****ty at. Though i'm curious of why you choose rhand over me when i was the one you would never take your eye off of." Expecting the vanilla cop to clear you sounded like you were vanilla.
I'd wager the PR who gave me the ability is town. If mafia gave it to me, then they risk me checking a PR buddy who might want to claim Vanilla, or checking a Goon who might want to fakeclaim PR.
Scum would only give me the ability for towncred, but that's a lot thinner.
Ok thanks then its safe to say the person who gave you it is town, and i think i can figure out who gave you the aiblity just from this information.
Somewhat curious, but no need to out it yet.
I'm torn on WG. QH's case is really good (huge townpoints) but I can't get past my metaread of Wheat. I'll check some of Wheat's scumgames I haven't played in to see if he's played like this as scum before.
Not a claim made by scum. Welcome to Townsville vaimes.
Quote from JT »
Haha, I take that back. I just thought of a pretty good reason that's a scum claim. I'll let the two balance out for now, but it could also be vaimes saying, hey tracker I totally targeted rhand last night, but I totally didn't murder him.
Does scum!JT put out a thought, then immediately retracts it and says the opposite as scum? What do you guys think?
Quote from Shinichi »
I agree on the vaimes and Grapefruit, a little on shadow, and i agree that the scum is prob between mind and AG. I mean ag it seems like he sheeped the vote more than anything.
If you think scum is in between Mindreaver or AG, then why are you not voting either of them?
Quote from Shinichi »
I would like that too but between work and my gaming distractions soemtimes that doesnt happen. Though i feel like mafia would benefit more from real time interactions dont you think?
How would scum gain more from real time interacting?
Quote from Shinichi »
Dont get to comfortable with those vibes tho i still find it highly doubtful the kpaca/crossbell is scum, i also believe that cross will never show any anti town or scum traits at all.
What does this mean? I will never show any scummy behavior?
Quote from Shinichi »
3. I don't like reads in general cause i suck at them.
If you don't like to give out reads then how do you expect you will solve the game?
Quote from Shinichi »
I believe someone who was pushing rhand alot is prob scum.
Grapefruit was pushing Rhand a lot, yet you say Grapefruit is town.
Things don't line up.
Quote from Shinichi »
Oh ok that makes sense, sadly kpaca was never going to get night killed and right now cross is to townie to be lynched. So i feel like we don't be able to figure that out unless i get lynched.
Why are you phrasing it this way?
"Proph is too townie to be lynched"
This feels like something you'd say in a scumchat, to a scumbuddy.
@Grapefruit21
Sweet, thanks. When I say you are defensive of AG, I don't necessarily mean both of you are scum and you are defending him as a scumbuddy. I think if kpaca were to be mislynched, we'd be more lenient on the people on his train than on AG's train should he be mislynched. As of now, while not everyone is voting for kpaca, there is a general consensus that he is being weird and unsupportive of the little reads he's actually given, which is an anti-town thing to do, whereas AG has not done anything AI or significantly beneficial or harmful to town. As for responding as if I was thinking of AG at the time, I just answered the question without thinking too hard about it because it had a pretty obvious answer, but I didn't find it odd until later when we were still talking about it.
That all being said, if we're going to have a mislynch today, kpaca is the best option. There's no point in announcing your presence if you're not going to be responsive to everything that's happened so far.
God you're being ridiculous. I meant mislynch as in a town loss, if we're going to lose town, it best be the person who's contributing the least and being anti-town. If he's scum, even better. Really, are you intentionally ignoring my posts asking you to clarify about me voting for the "flavor of the day"? Because any way I look at it, that's a blatant lie, and I'm sure you've come to realize this yourself and are choosing to ignore it rather than squirm to back it up.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Guys, I really have a good feeling about Shinichi. My dilemma is that this good feeling could come from the fact that I am naturally much more inclined to trust him than other players here because of some kind of familiarity bias (?). Quite literally, each time someone accused Shinichi of doing something scummy, it was for things which I've seen him do as town as well, so the accusations don't strike me as hard as they could. I also think he's having good intentions for the most part, so I guess that's one thing I agree with Wheat on.
Can you substantiate this "good feeling" with quotes as to why you think Shinichi is town?
I was feeling conflicted about Shinichi myself until I read his most recent posts.
QH has a point about there being a contrast between Wheat's posts and his conviction level shown in-thread, but I want Wheat to actually show up since he hasn't done anything Today besides complain about deadline lengths.
I am still kind of lazy on my planned Wheat/RE/JT ISOs, I will try to get some of them done tonight after work.
Not a claim made by scum. Welcome to Townsville vaimes.
Quote from JT »
Haha, I take that back. I just thought of a pretty good reason that's a scum claim. I'll let the two balance out for now, but it could also be vaimes saying, hey tracker I totally targeted rhand last night, but I totally didn't murder him.
Does scum!JT put out a thought, then immediately retracts it and says the opposite as scum? What do you guys think?
You mean townread someone, aka clearing them as a lynch target, and then putting them back into the pile so that they have more options to pick through? I think it's null.
I for one am having the hardest time townreading someone who has camped out their vote on me for two days and for reasoning they're refusing to explain.
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And probably a reconsideration of my read on shadowlx.
And a look at Terry, I haven't been a fan of his posts, and I'm even starting to think that his entrance to the thread was weirdly acclaimed. But mostly the issue is the recent posts.
Gonna try to do more tomorrow.
I support more traction on AG to make him talk. If he's town, he is literally giving me nothing here.
Whither shall I wander?
Upstairs and downstairs
And in my lady's chamber.
There I met a young boy
Who wouldn't say his prayers,
So I took him by his scrawny neck
And threw him down the stairs.
Votecount 2.1 - With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.
Shinichi (2): Grapefruit21, shadowlancerx
AtheistGod (3): Prophylaxis, RE1031, Vaimes
RE1031 (1): TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
Not Voting: AtheistGod, Mindreaver, Quickhoodies, Shinichi, Wheat_Grinder
Please inform me of any errors.
Deadline is Friday, July 21st, at 9am MDT.
I do have to say that this post gives me some town vibes. No need for scum to stir the pot by questioning the townreads on them and him going "do me a favor and engage me" is something that I don't see scum do often.
JT I'll try to be around tomorrow afternoon-ish if you need someone to engage with in real time.
1) Finding scum
2) Lynching them
3) Finding town
4) Stating with conviction WHY you think they are town
Vaimes is completely right when he says that you haven't really done ANY OF THOSE THINGS.
1) I'm on vacation
2) CFD needs to be discussed heavily today
3) Let's vote RE
Are you ignoring me? I'm sorry I was mean to you before, don't ignore me
Quickest of quick catchups.
Shin still being suspect. QH, Vaimes, Proph, and JT off to good starts, but have one big red flag for Proph. Want to see how it develops though as this feels like town Proph otherwise.
Also slightly weirded out by the focus on the CFD. The fact that all the moves were largely the same group and it moving off of Rhand makes it not worrying to me.
RE1031 I take back the Shadow/Mind thing. I checked my notes and it wasn't what I thought it was on reread. Thought Mind did something that shadow would have reacted too (knowing Bare Bones and unreliable Shots) but it didn't actually happen the way I thought it did. As for you v Terry going to keep that to myself a bit longer.
I agree on the vaimes and Grapefruit, a little on shadow, and i agree that the scum is prob between mind and AG. I mean ag it seems like he sheeped the vote more than anything.
I would like that too but between work and my gaming distractions soemtimes that doesnt happen. Though i feel like mafia would benefit more from real time interactions dont you think?
It should be scummy idk what she is talking about, but i do it alot regardless of alignment which is what i think shes trying to point out.
For us MS players i feel like they're but not for the players who don't know us well.
Dont get to comfortable with those vibes tho i still find it highly doubtful the kpaca/crossbell is scum, i also believe that cross will never show any anti town or scum traits at all.
1.Excuse me for not putting my thoughts out to the world XD.
2.I can't deny that, but ill be voting soon enough.
3. I don't like reads in general cause i suck at them.
4.I did though >3>
If we go by that, then i soft claimed to yet im still alive. I find it weird that rhand died because honestly he was gonna be a huge lynch durig this phase so mafia took care of alot of chaos by getting rid of him. I believe someone who was pushing rhand alot is prob scum.
I dont respond to everything, i respond to most of it lol.
Convientent sure, my brother this that is another game. It's like you said though how can you prove it? Actually we prob can prove it once we can figure who and why they would want rhand dead, subtracting the possibility of the soft claim.
Its possible they wanted to see if Kpaca was worth all the effort, if he didnt have a PR there prob be no reason for scum to focus him even if he was an esay train so their best bet was to get him to claim. It's like RE i think she said it but the whole train was shady and just felt to easy. Now that crossbell took the mantle im about 80% sure cross is town, which obviously makes kpaca town.
Another thing would AG ask such an obvious question and risk giving himself away? Does anyone know the answer to this.
Hmm? I even stated that I was worried that he was town reading me so easily, never stated because im town he has to be town.
Was more a less a read because he hadnt done anything particularly scummy or town. I just felt like his read wasnt as bad as everyone was saying, i only questioned it because i was just surprised he actually town read me.
No where did u come to that conclusion lol?
I still think ur town, its just this ability and how it happened just raises questions is all. So why not just answer all the questions lol.
Ok thanks then its safe to say the person who gave you it is town, and i think i can figure out who gave you the aiblity just from this information.
no, if i had that ability i would have chosen to give it to grapefruit most likely.
Oh ok that makes sense, sadly kpaca was never going to get night killed and right now cross is to townie to be lynched. So i feel like we don't be able to figure that out unless i get lynched.
Only 2 people im truly convinced have the highest chance of being town that would be vaimes and grapefruit. Shadow and AG seem to have the highest chance of being scum in my book.
Vaimes conviction on me is the biggest reason I think hes town. He's never played with me before so he cant know my meta, so it would make more sense for someone to being pushing me so hard for the way im playing.
I can't recall the last time or if I even played a game where GF was scum, but through this game he hasnt done anyting that would make me think he scum. Plus like vaimes his conviction on me is hindsight that hes probably town, because I know for a fact he would not sheep me knowing the way i play unless he was town.
Okay, is nobody gonna tell me where you (soft) claimed? lmao
Well, they probably couldn't kill two people. Rhand made it way more obvious that he was PR. Plus your lynch was gaining a lot more popularity by the end of day 1.
Why would scum kill someone they pushing? Isn't it usually the other way around? They probably balanced it out - getting rid of a power role is worth taking away some of the chaos. And sadly "deathguard" sounds something a lot like a doctor.
Are you sure about that or are you just not liking the tension?
Twice now actually lol
I would hope they could only kill 1 person or i be realy worried right now. Well tbf any role with an ability is PR so no way they could have known his role was that strong. I'm not sure why he needed to soft claim anyways, it seemed like he was still supicious regardless of that claim.
I'll take that as a no... :'(
Well, he asked if he should claim, which implied he wasn't a vanilla townie, and then he never did claim. I think he was just worried he was going to get lynched.
Wait. I just realized something. Death's head moth is an actual moth. Deathguard is a play on words. So Rhand's actual role might just be "guard," short for "bodyguard." Actually I have no idea. It'd be nice if a description of the role was given with the death notice.
Townreads Shinichi (?)
Townreads Terry
Scumreads Vaimes
Townreads Grapefruit
Explains his scumread on Vaimes and his townread on Terry
Scumreads Vaimes, townreads Shinichi (continued)
Townreads Shinichi (continued)
Scumreads Vaimes (continued)
Explains his scumread on Vaimes (continued)
Explains his scumread on Vaimes (continued)
Explains his townread on Shinichi (continued) and drives Vaimes in a corner by forcing his play
Townreads Mindreaver + more on Shinichi, Terry, Vaimes + scumreads RE1031
A summary of his reads, adding in Quickhoodies, Rhand, AG and shadow (all those he hadn't yet talked about)
Explains his reads on Shinichi+Mindreaver
PS: this guy wants to lynch Vaimes
His summary again
Switches his vote from Vaimes to someone who wasn't more likely to get lynched anyway + says he'll change his vote if needed (but didn't afterall - I suppose he wasn't in-thread, like me)
Other posts:
I still don't get this. Anyone would want his butt saved - if anything, Vaimes has been constantly repeating that he's trying to ignore Wheat's obsessive push on him, and he has been posting satisfactory reads on various players, so it's not like he's all about saving his butt. And besides, considering how hard Wheat was going on him, I think it would only make sense if Vaimes were to be trying his utmost to fight against Wheat's reads and try to not uselessly become a target.
As I earlier said: "Is it just me or everything WG says in this post is just false? There are people who weren't okay with kpaca and vaimes' reads. And I'm pretty sure just as many people are okay with Shinichi than not okay with him." I still think this is relevant...
Now to close this off, two posts I like from RE1031 which I actually agree with:
What I can note from all of this:
Wheat proceeds by declaring his reads to everyone, and he always starts without explaining them properly, so as to first see how others will react to them.
Then when asked, he provides his explanations (honestly, it's hard to tell if they were fabricated on-the-post or if he had them before declaring his reads, because some of them are in fact quite solid). The thing about them is that they're always super brief. They're brief yet full of conviction, and such conviction should imply that he genuinely wants pressure/votes on his scumreads (especially Vaimes). However, Vaimes wasn't really being scumread by anyone else. I think that Wheat's brief explanations don't match up with his conviction. It's like there should be an attempt to convince other people, but in the end there isn't, otherwise the explanations would be more lengthy and focused on the contents of the posts he's using to base his reads on.
During the whole phase, Wheat's pool of players is limited to kpaca (on which he goes from a scumread based on a single post to a townread based on the wagon), Shinichi, Terry, and Vaimes (side point, he said somewhere that Vaimes calling RE vs Terry as TvT fight made him feel worse about Vaimes, which I still don't understand why and I wish I did, because I also expressed that I think RE vs Terry is probably town), then once a lynch is being decided, he factors in the rest of the players. This is pretty decent focus-wise (I haven't done any better myself) but by reading all the posts in which he talks about these 4 players I can't help but feel like his reads are often repeated without being embellished with either self-doubting, additional opinion on the same player, or how other players' reads on his own scumreads affect his opinion.
This is all pretty jumbled in my mind, but I think Wheat is now my favorite slot to vote. Hopefully I don't hear my voice echo on the walls of a tunnel, if you know what I mean.
Guys, I really have a good feeling about Shinichi. My dilemma is that this good feeling could come from the fact that I am naturally much more inclined to trust him than other players here because of some kind of familiarity bias (?). Quite literally, each time someone accused Shinichi of doing something scummy, it was for things which I've seen him do as town as well, so the accusations don't strike me as hard as they could. I also think he's having good intentions for the most part, so I guess that's one thing I agree with Wheat on.
Now I should probably check out Terry after my break. Vaimes I think I will get the most ridiculous headache if I go too deeply into him. AG I wish he was vig-shot because then I wouldn't have to deal with him. Proph (welcome) I'll see, but I was one of those who ultimately pitied kpaca (despite still being relatively okay with a lynch) so he's in a good light for me, thank god he should be easier to form an opinion out of. Mindreaver I legit have no clue. His posts have been smart. shadowlx is still a lynch I like, but I might just reset my views on him from D1 and get somewhere with his D2 posts instead. It's true that my suspicions on him yesterday didn't feel properly strong with what I expressed in-thread.
I'm so sorry about the length. What really matters is the near-end of the spoiler and what's not in it.
Vote: Wheat_Grinder
"Im sad now i have to somehow clear myself which i tend to be really *****ty at. Though i'm curious of why you choose rhand over me when i was the one you would never take your eye off of." Expecting the vanilla cop to clear you sounded like you were vanilla.
Somewhat curious, but no need to out it yet.
I'm torn on WG. QH's case is really good (huge townpoints) but I can't get past my metaread of Wheat. I'll check some of Wheat's scumgames I haven't played in to see if he's played like this as scum before.
Does scum!JT put out a thought, then immediately retracts it and says the opposite as scum? What do you guys think?
If you think scum is in between Mindreaver or AG, then why are you not voting either of them?
How would scum gain more from real time interacting?
What does this mean? I will never show any scummy behavior?
If you don't like to give out reads then how do you expect you will solve the game?
Grapefruit was pushing Rhand a lot, yet you say Grapefruit is town.
Things don't line up.
Why are you phrasing it this way?
"Proph is too townie to be lynched"
This feels like something you'd say in a scumchat, to a scumbuddy.
..but simultaneously has Grapefruit as one of his highest townreads. Grapefruit, who was pretty vocal about pushing Rhand Yesterday.
It does not mesh, at all.
God you're being ridiculous. I meant mislynch as in a town loss, if we're going to lose town, it best be the person who's contributing the least and being anti-town. If he's scum, even better. Really, are you intentionally ignoring my posts asking you to clarify about me voting for the "flavor of the day"? Because any way I look at it, that's a blatant lie, and I'm sure you've come to realize this yourself and are choosing to ignore it rather than squirm to back it up.
Can you substantiate this "good feeling" with quotes as to why you think Shinichi is town?
I was feeling conflicted about Shinichi myself until I read his most recent posts.
I am still kind of lazy on my planned Wheat/RE/JT ISOs, I will try to get some of them done tonight after work.
You mean townread someone, aka clearing them as a lynch target, and then putting them back into the pile so that they have more options to pick through? I think it's null.
I for one am having the hardest time townreading someone who has camped out their vote on me for two days and for reasoning they're refusing to explain.