At first I actually liked Shinichi's reply here about his biggest problems, but as I was looking back, I came across the previous post, where he talks about it being odd for someone to forget what they wrote. And then he declares it to be a more townie thing than a scum thing, which reads to me as a subtle "I'm being townie guys!"
@Shinichi: if that is one of your biggest problems, why would you find it weird that someone else did the same thing?
I know I have memory problems it's something that effects me as both alignments but for others its different. As town your more inclinded to keep track of things and remember stuff. Scum cause alot of contradiction, if they're afraid to go back to search for things or repeat answers its obvious they might be scum. Also I wasn't trying to state I am townie, I know my own alignment lol i don't need to parade it around the thread. I clearly even stated i'm forgetful as both alignments so theoretically i wasnt even calling myself townie cause it could also be implied that I am scum.
While for re1031 I can tell her reaction is genuine but I also know she is very good at faking this kind of interaction which is why i suggested the probability of the other options.
When have I faked this before? I've been scum only once (since I got back into mafia) and converted cult member in another. I don't think I did much faking in either...
That was the question I was being scumread over, or "caught" for. I genuinely don't know how anyone could be lead to that conclusion, and even now, I don't think that the phrasing implicates that I was faking in this game. Did you know the full context of my "deflecting" before interpreting it as bad?
Also, the flavor slip I'm referring to is in #241. It's why I think Rhand is the safest place to vote today.
Why do i need to prove it, are your saying your scum. I mean my post wasnt to throw shade or lie, its just the kind of player I think you are if anything it was a compliment. So your overreaction to this is just off and just not needed. Also maybe WG has notice something that we haven't they've played together have they not so its possible something vaimes posted is a scum tell for WG.
That I can agree with. But I don't think it's overreacting to ask when has ____ happened if you don't recall it ever happening.
I disagree because you can go around asking for an answer in a calm way, it's pretty clear from the post that you were little worried about something.
Shinichi thanks for finally responding to that. I'm still not quoting, but I largely disagree with your take on Roger. I see an attempt to look like weeding out bad reads. But I don't see the next step. I don't see any interest in figuring out the game. I know you said you saw more in them and saw stances and such, but there just isn't anything there except discrediting. And that leads back to my issue with you: I see you throwing out reads and then working backwards to justify them. That's what I see with the Kpaca read way back on page 1 and 2 and I keep seeing a similar sort of thing now.
As for saying I don't want to lynch QH or Shadow yeah it was partly bias (I could see the engagement level and coherence that makes the game more interesting). Shadow's commitment flagged, but I have experience with him and know he's usually a high quality poster. And to a fault I use that as a tiebreaker.
@bold What does this say about my alignment tho?
I dislike the fact that you won't quote it because ive actually gone back to read it so its weird that you wont quote it even now. Ok so you think roger was or is scum because it was clear he was trying to weed out the bad reads, but it wasnt taking the next step. I feel like discrediting reads is a step forward in a way, because eventually alot more people will start getting similar reads the ones that cant do that are scum.
Extremely biased, it's one thing to use past games as a basis for a read but to completely ignore vote targets because of past games doesn't feel right.
@Grapefruit21
Sweet, thanks. When I say you are defensive of AG, I don't necessarily mean both of you are scum and you are defending him as a scumbuddy. I think if kpaca were to be mislynched, we'd be more lenient on the people on his train than on AG's train should he be mislynched. As of now, while not everyone is voting for kpaca, there is a general consensus that he is being weird and unsupportive of the little reads he's actually given, which is an anti-town thing to do, whereas AG has not done anything AI or significantly beneficial or harmful to town. As for responding as if I was thinking of AG at the time, I just answered the question without thinking too hard about it because it had a pretty obvious answer, but I didn't find it odd until later when we were still talking about it.
That all being said, if we're going to have a mislynch today, kpaca is the best option. There's no point in announcing your presence if you're not going to be responsive to everything that's happened so far.
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Shinichi thanks for finally responding to that. I'm still not quoting, but I largely disagree with your take on Roger. I see an attempt to look like weeding out bad reads. But I don't see the next step. I don't see any interest in figuring out the game. I know you said you saw more in them and saw stances and such, but there just isn't anything there except discrediting. And that leads back to my issue with you: I see you throwing out reads and then working backwards to justify them. That's what I see with the Kpaca read way back on page 1 and 2 and I keep seeing a similar sort of thing now.
As for saying I don't want to lynch QH or Shadow yeah it was partly bias (I could see the engagement level and coherence that makes the game more interesting). Shadow's commitment flagged, but I have experience with him and know he's usually a high quality poster. And to a fault I use that as a tiebreaker.
1@bold What does this say about my alignment tho?
2I dislike the fact that you won't quote it because ive actually gone back to read it so its weird that you wont quote it even now. Ok so you think roger was or is scum because it was clear he was trying to weed out the bad reads, but it wasnt taking the next step. I feel like discrediting reads is a step forward in a way, because eventually alot more people will start getting similar reads the ones that cant do that are scum.
3Extremely biased, it's one thing to use past games as a basis for a read but to completely ignore vote targets because of past games doesn't feel right.
1. Makes you much much much more likely to be scum. Town doesn't need to work backwards.
2. I'm sorry. I'm traveling the states and haven't had consistent wifi access so I've been exclusively on mobile. Have a good connection now and have busted out my laptop. So quotes! No promises going forward, but I'll try.
3. You're right, but QH is now seeming super townie. And there are better targets than Shadow. From here out I'll not ignore them.
@Grapefruit21
Sweet, thanks. When I say you are defensive of AG, I don't necessarily mean both of you are scum and you are defending him as a scumbuddy. I think if kpaca were to be mislynched, we'd be more lenient on the people on his train than on AG's train should he be mislynched. As of now, while not everyone is voting for kpaca, there is a general consensus that he is being weird and unsupportive of the little reads he's actually given, which is an anti-town thing to do, whereas AG has not done anything AI or significantly beneficial or harmful to town. As for responding as if I was thinking of AG at the time, I just answered the question without thinking too hard about it because it had a pretty obvious answer, but I didn't find it odd until later when we were still talking about it.
That all being said, if we're going to have a mislynch today, kpaca is the best option. There's no point in announcing your presence if you're not going to be responsive to everything that's happened so far.
Am I correct in taking this to mean you don't think I am a mislynch then?
Am I correct in taking this to mean you don't think I am a mislynch then?
Yes. But I don't think you are going to be lynched today. People want kpaca dead too much for that.
I have a gut feeling that there won't be a majority lynch of Kpaaca toDay.
Outside of myself do you have any other scum reads?
Do you think Kpaca is a mislynch?
What about AG?
And why for both?
And is your read still based upon my "squeaky cleaness"? Just because I want it to be clear for the record that you are voting for me not because I've been scummy, or anti-town, or dead weight, but because I've been too townie. And if not I'd like to hear the case.
Am I correct in taking this to mean you don't think I am a mislynch then?
Yes. But I don't think you are going to be lynched today. People want kpaca dead too much for that.
I have a gut feeling that there won't be a majority lynch of Kpaaca toDay.
Outside of myself do you have any other scum reads?
Do you think Kpaca is a mislynch?
What about AG?
And why for both?
And is your read still based upon my "squeaky cleaness"? Just because I want it to be clear for the record that you are voting for me not because I've been scummy, or anti-town, or dead weight, but because I've been too townie. And if not I'd like to hear the case.
kpaca, yes, I'm leaning towards mislynch. AG I believe is just turning into an inactive, and from my experience, inactives tend to be town. I don't like that I don't have any strong feelings about AG, but I'm going to pretend he's getting replaced. If I had to choose, I'd go with AG is mislynch. My read on you is based on the squeaky cleaness, because that indicates to me you are not taking any real stabs. Yes, I know, we've been through this. But just skimming through page 10, you are bouncing reads like crazy. You have a rather large pool of people you are "fine" lynching, which indicates to me your strongest read is on the person you are currently voting for, and given the lack of posts and reactions from kpaca, that is not a good sign. You are not taking any strong stance on anyone in particular, except kpaca, and even then, I feel any argument against kpaca just sounds the same nowadays, and nobody is actively engaging convos with him. You are against lynching Vaimes but shortly later say you're reconsidering it, as well as the reads on me. I can't remember my exact words from what I said about you earlier, but if I said you were "too townie," that was a mistake. Squeaky clean doesn't mean towniness, it just means you haven't taken many risks.
Basically, you are far too willing to compromise, which shouldn't be the case because the person you're voting for is leading the lynch by a long shot.
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Hold on just a second. I reacted to the serial killer thing. I think I may even have been the first to react.
My reaction to Mindreaver's original post is here here. And I had a long back and forth with Roger about that reference. So reading me based on not reacting to the SK reference is just making things up.
I obviously haven't read that part of the game yet.
Oh yeah, and as for Roger/Rhand, I didn't see eye to eye with your argument against him days back, and I really don't see it now. The only reason I was suspicious of him was the flavor thing, and that was cleared up fairly easily. But see, I can't treat that case as a stab because your read on Roger wasn't strong enough to stick past a replacement. Instead of kpaca, you should be pressuring Rhand right now.
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Hold on just a second. I reacted to the serial killer thing. I think I may even have been the first to react.
My reaction to Mindreaver's original post is here here. And I had a long back and forth with Roger about that reference. So reading me based on not reacting to the SK reference is just making things up.
I obviously haven't read that part of the game yet.
Vote: Rhand
If you haven't read that part of the game why are you FOS'ing me based on my reaction to it?
Oh yeah, and as for Roger/Rhand, I didn't see eye to eye with your argument against him days back, and I really don't see it now. The only reason I was suspicious of him was the flavor thing, and that was cleared up fairly easily. But see, I can't treat that case as a stab because your read on Roger wasn't strong enough to stick past a replacement. Instead of kpaca, you should be pressuring Rhand right now.
I can't pressure Rhand to answer for Roger's behavior because they are different people. I can either push for a lynch on rhand based on Roger's behavior and not give Rhand a chance to give his views on the game or I can look at other parts of the game while he catches up.
As for you not agreeing with my case on Roger that's all fine. Different strokes and all that. But that doesn't change the fact that I was pushing it which doesn't fit with your not rocking the boat read of me.
Am I correct in taking this to mean you don't think I am a mislynch then?
Yes. But I don't think you are going to be lynched today. People want kpaca dead too much for that.
I have a gut feeling that there won't be a majority lynch of Kpaaca toDay.
Outside of myself do you have any other scum reads?
Do you think Kpaca is a mislynch?
What about AG?
And why for both?
And is your read still based upon my "squeaky cleaness"? Just because I want it to be clear for the record that you are voting for me not because I've been scummy, or anti-town, or dead weight, but because I've been too townie. And if not I'd like to hear the case.
kpaca, yes, I'm leaning towards mislynch. AG I believe is just turning into an inactive, and from my experience, inactives tend to be town. I don't like that I don't have any strong feelings about AG, but I'm going to pretend he's getting replaced. If I had to choose, I'd go with AG is mislynch. My read on you is based on the squeaky cleaness, because that indicates to me you are not taking any real stabs. Yes, I know, we've been through this. But just skimming through page 10, you are bouncing reads like crazy. You have a rather large pool of people you are "fine" lynching, which indicates to me your strongest read is on the person you are currently voting for, and given the lack of posts and reactions from kpaca, that is not a good sign. You are not taking any strong stance on anyone in particular, except kpaca, and even then, I feel any argument against kpaca just sounds the same nowadays, and nobody is actively engaging convos with him. You are against lynching Vaimes but shortly later say you're reconsidering it, as well as the reads on me. I can't remember my exact words from what I said about you earlier, but if I said you were "too townie," that was a mistake. Squeaky clean doesn't mean towniness, it just means you haven't taken many risks.
Basically, you are far too willing to compromise, which shouldn't be the case because the person you're voting for is leading the lynch by a long shot.
What makes Kpaca town?
Completely agree on AG.
How are my reads bouncing around like crazy? The only one to move on page ten was Vaimes and a promise to review you without changing my stance.
Why is willingness to compromise making me more likely to be scum? I don't see the connection there.
And I now understand what you mean by squeaky clean, I just don't think it is remotely true.
How are my reads bouncing around like crazy? The only one to move on page ten was Vaimes and a promise to review you without changing my stance.
Why is willingness to compromise making me more likely to be scum? I don't see the connection there.
And I now understand what you mean by squeaky clean, I just don't think it is remotely true.
Behavior wise, eh, nothing much to be honest. The only thing that may indicate he's town is the lack of defensiveness/aggressiveness which was strongly present in his scum game Vaimes posted, but then again, it'd be a dead giveaway if he were to repeat that behavior. I think he's a mislynch though because he's been leading the lynch pretty much this entire phase with little resistance. The lynch itself feels off with everyone kind of just camped on him and I don't think his mafia buddies would let it get this far.
Hmm, I guess they're not bouncing like crazy, they just feel a little weak. It's not just your willing to compromise, it's that it doesn't make sense for you to compromise if kpaca's leading in the votes and you believe he's scum.
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
I can't pressure Rhand to answer for Roger's behavior because they are different people. I can either push for a lynch on rhand based on Roger's behavior and not give Rhand a chance to give his views on the game or I can look at other parts of the game while he catches up.
As for you not agreeing with my case on Roger that's all fine. Different strokes and all that. But that doesn't change the fact that I was pushing it which doesn't fit with your not rocking the boat read of me.
That's true. I think I'm going to take a backseat and see where you go with it. I may have been a little too quick to back off Rhand.
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Last reply for now. RE: There have been some other attempted wagons (Roger, Vaimes, Shadow just off the top of my head) there could be any number of reasons a viable counter wagon hasn't formed. If there hadn't been as much vote activity as there has been I'd put more credence to the lack of a counter wagon as evidence. But I don't think it can apply here.
As for the aggressiveness he came out with it, but you are right that it hasn't persisted.
I was willing to compromise because my strongest read was Roger. And he wasn't in the game anymore, so I had three candidates I didn't feel strongly about and one who needed time. Now that Rhand has done something that makes a lot more sense if he were mafia here I'm back onto that and don't have to compromise anymore.
As for the strength part I was getting pressure from Shinichi for how strong my town reads were, so again I just don't agree with your view of my behavior. Also you calling me scum for having weak reads just after talking about how it's hard to have a behavioral read on two people is a bit (just for you QH) hypocritical.
As for the strength part I was getting pressure from Shinichi for how strong my town reads were, so again I just don't agree with your view of my behavior. Also you calling me scum for having weak reads just after talking about how it's hard to have a behavioral read on two people is a bit (just for you QH) hypocritical.
Well, Vaimes and I have posted considerably more than kpaca and AG, but I see your point.
_________
Should I start a countertrain? I want to start one...
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Hold on just a second. I reacted to the serial killer thing. I think I may even have been the first to react.
My reaction to Mindreaver's original post is here here. And I had a long back and forth with Roger about that reference. So reading me based on not reacting to the SK reference is just making things up.
I obviously haven't read that part of the game yet.
Vote: Rhand
If you haven't read that part of the game why are you FOS'ing me based on my reaction to it?
It's your reaction (or lack thereof) to me I was talking about.
Well, that vote isn't doing anything productive. Unvote.
I guess I see why kpaca is a good target for a wagon. He's not going to make a dazzling case to save himself, and a lot of us would just shrug at hist lynch, and as RE just voiced: he's acting anti-town, even if we don't have strong suspicions that it's an actual scum plan. 5 votes sprung up pretty fast, and I only really have town vibes from one or two of you. So I think I'd rather form the natural wagon that should be the leader at this point, which is Vote: Rhand
It sucks that you just replaced in, and I appreciate you doing that. But I can't shake that Roger is just caught scum. He wasn't hunting, he was nitpicking. He wasn't putting forth opinions other than that ours (mine) were bad. I still don't see a lot of hunting from you Rhand. Not reading works if you can be super active, and it's not working if you're just going to attack people without bothering to deal with context.
You are also going almost out of your way to not comment on the kpaca wagon. I waited a really long time for you to actually post something about it. And there were lots of opportunities for you to chime in. It's the thing going on right now. Lots of others, especially QH (who's post I loved. I don't think scum ever say "this wagon is making me uneasy" when it's a mislynch counterwagon 1 week away from deadline. I think they shut up, and then gradually shrug their shoulders and vote. The way I expect you would have in the next day or so. Saying any lynch is better than no lynch, boom.), committed to actual opinions on it. All you have said is "this is typical kpaca". That you responded to that question at all says you think you're in a position to read scum!kpaca from town!kpaca. But you haven't weighed in? That has to be deliberate distancing, and I think the only way that happens is if you're scum and don't want to champion a buddy you think might die anyway OR you think he can potentially be a mislynch and are playing wait-and-see.
Anyway, that's why I think you should be the counterwagon here, and I think you're the best lynch for the day.
For everyone else: I don't in any way, want us to spend the next few days arguing over whether Kpaca and AG are town/scum based solely on how they are lurking. That's straight garbage. They get a reprieve today, because I think Rhand is a better lynch for sure. But I'm not spending the whole game trying to guess somebody's alignment from 30 words over 11 pages.
@Mind: Kpaca is like this as both alignments. He hardly posted since I joined and he didn't ping me either way.
I have a townread on RE, a scumread on Grape and that's it.
I will invest time in this game, but I can't for another 10 days, so I am basing my reads on, as I said from the beginning, what is happening now.
@Mind: Kpaca is like this as both alignments. He hardly posted since I joined and he didn't ping me either way.
I have a townread on RE, a scumread on Grape and that's it.
I will invest time in this game, but I can't for another 10 days, so I am basing my reads on, as I said from the beginning, what is happening now.
My points aren't that you aren't re-reading, nor that you don't have time. I understood that going in. But you spent time on me, out of context. Then time going after grape, again, without reading the relevant sections. That's my criticism. Not that I expect you to be posting furiously.
Anyway, care to share your opinions on the Kpaca wagon? Instead of continuing to hedge? Gonna vote it? What about the people on it? Any opinion at all.
Kpaca is always an easy D1 wagon. I don't have time to read back what he said before, but his posting style is always short and bordering on obnoxious, so he's an easy vote to cast coming from every alignment.
I can't tell you more without reading the game, which I can't do right now.
I won't vote at all toDay unless it's needed for a deadline lynch or something happens that convinces me.
@Grapefruit
Could you respond to #481? Why did you think I thought people were treating kpaca differently from AG? The first post you quoted did not say that, and even if you assumed I agreed with QH's assessment of the AG/kpaca scenario, why did you ask me instead of QH? Also, QH brought up a lot of good points, why were you so interested in the ones comparing kpaca to AG? You say you are not completely against an AG lynch, but you are rather defensive of him. If you reread the posts I made, you should be able to tell that I was not using AG as a basis for saying kpaca is probably mislynch, but purely kpaca's behavior. Somehow something made you extremely wary of the similarities between kpaca and AG, to the point you assumed I was suspicious of the difference in treatment despite me saying nothing of the sort.
Let me ask you this: if kpaca is scum, what would scum be doing in this situation? Please don't be cute and say it's what I'm doing now.
im not all the way caught up, but this vote makes me sure RE is scum. Just like when I voted him before, he appears to be voting for the flavor of the day every time. As soon as someone starts getting some heat RE jumps on them. I can be more detailed if I get on my computer later (I'm mobile ATM). It says to me not hunting just jumping.
@Terry: do you think he would look at his scum role pm and compare it to a town role pm and then vote the town for being different?
I really think that clears him.
@Grapefruit
Could you respond to #481? Why did you think I thought people were treating kpaca differently from AG? The first post you quoted did not say that, and even if you assumed I agreed with QH's assessment of the AG/kpaca scenario, why did you ask me instead of QH? Also, QH brought up a lot of good points, why were you so interested in the ones comparing kpaca to AG? You say you are not completely against an AG lynch, but you are rather defensive of him. If you reread the posts I made, you should be able to tell that I was not using AG as a basis for saying kpaca is probably mislynch, but purely kpaca's behavior. Somehow something made you extremely wary of the similarities between kpaca and AG, to the point you assumed I was suspicious of the difference in treatment despite me saying nothing of the sort.
Let me ask you this: if kpaca is scum, what would scum be doing in this situation? Please don't be cute and say it's what I'm doing now.
im not all the way caught up, but this vote makes me sure RE is scum. Just like when I voted him before, he appears to be voting for the flavor of the day every time. As soon as someone starts getting some heat RE jumps on them. I can be more detailed if I get on my computer later (I'm mobile ATM). It says to me not hunting just jumping.
Unvote, vote: RE1031
Other than kpaca, when have I voted for the "flavor of the day"? I'm pretty sure Grapefruit was not under any heat at the time I voted for him, except from Rhand. I have been suspicious of Grapefruit for a long while now, it's not like my vote came out of nowhere. I get that you think I'm scum, but my vote on Grapefruit was not a jump of any kind. So yes, please be more detailed (and accurate).
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Immediate thoughts: Very slight scum lean on kpaca. I don't think this game is that out of character for him as either alignment. Grapefruit's 519 pings me as a town post.
@RE1031: I haven't seen a scum game for Grapefruit, so I don't have one to link; my point was more that I don't think any scum would make an attack on a townie like that.
I would agree, but Roger was already receiving attention from other players. The game you linked is actually consistent with my read on Grapefruit, the tone is extremely similar. Also, his reads have been all over the place this page.
If Vaimes is town, RE probably isn't scum. It doesn't feel like a pocket attempt to me, which is the requirement for town Vaimes, scum RE.
I almost want to lynch Vaimes solely to see your reaction. Even if he's scum, well, that's a win/win scenario.
Also, please explain clearly why I am automatically scum if Vaimes is scum. This is twice I've been involved in "dichotomies" and it's annoying because I can't actually defend myself from it because there's no incriminating evidence. It's like me saying you are automatically scum if Vaimes is town, or everyone should lynch Terry when I flip town. These if ___, then ___ almost never work in mafia. You have to work with flips AND new information/posts that follow. Town beat up town all the time, and bussing is a thing. Is there anything else besides me thinking your read on Vaimes is backed up by nothing that would indicate that I am scum?
If it helps, I think there's reasonable evidence you're scum on your own, too. It's just not strong enough for me to believe you're scum if Vaimes isn't also scum.
121, 123, and 124 are focused on Shadow's early questions. I find them scummy overall, but I like that sort of questions. Making people not only ask good questions, but be able to answer for their intent makes it harder to hide for scum.
Skipping ahead to 178 this is another post I like. I think I like the meta dump on Shinichi. Hopping on the Kpaca train I think was a good move for that time, right vote even if it might be part of an opportunistic pattern.
I've stared at the below post for a while and can't make up my mind.
The point was, that when I told you I didn't find anything scummy about Shinichi, it could easily have been taken as "I think Shin is town". The reason I made that point, which I guess wasn't too clear now that I go back and read it was that REI, voted Kpaca on a pretty flimsy reason that he shouldn't have town-read shinichi that early. There were votes at the time on Kpaca and it reads to me as REI choosing to push Kpaca over, someone like me. I got some pretty early town-cred (for very little reasoning IMO), so a push on me wouldn't have been received too well at the time so REI chose to push Kpaca, which could be a easier lynch.
Well, I don't think you posted enough to be read at all, scum or town. A push on you as scum wouldn't have made sense even if you weren't being town read. (At the time.)
And it wasn't just that he town read Shinichi early, he didn't offer reasoning behind it. Like I said, it felt like an attempt to pocket Shinichi, especially since Shinichi was getting heat at the time. I'm not pushing anything at this point, or at least anything that I see lasting until the end of the 2 weeks. I could claim that there's nothing to go on, and post nothing until I find something that's not just "flimsy," or I could go and put content in the thread.
On one hand I don't find the opening particularly townie. It's not overtly scummy, but it's a little hey look at me! I wasn't scummy!
On the other I still like the shinichi read.
Back to the first, I hate the lack of conviction. RE clearly believes the point, but says "I'm not pushing anything" which isn't what I'd expect from town who thinks they found something scummy.
And I'm out of time for the night. Won't have time to get through RE before the deadline. Not seeing anything that makes me want to lynch them more anyway.
I think with myself and Vaimes moving to Rhand that Kpaca is down to 3 votes.
Sell me on the Shadow wagon por favor.
-_-
Excuse me? You want to be sold on it? I don't think so.
*sigh* I'm gonna have to reread you aren't I?
He gave no justification for voting you and I only remember him talking about Vaimes. I also thought I was quoting Wheat in that post. I've said a few times that I'm not voting you today. I want to no where this is coming from.
If it helps, I think there's reasonable evidence you're scum on your own, too. It's just not strong enough for me to believe you're scum if Vaimes isn't also scum.
It doesn't really help if you can't actually state the evidence. It's just about as helpful as catching up posts with no follow up.
On one hand I don't find the opening particularly townie. It's not overtly scummy, but it's a little hey look at me! I wasn't scummy!
On the other I still like the shinichi read.
Back to the first, I hate the lack of conviction. RE clearly believes the point, but says "I'm not pushing anything" which isn't what I'd expect from town who thinks they found something scummy.
This makes no sense. How on earth could you interpret my first statement as that? All I said was pushing anything onto Terry wouldn't have made sense because he didn't post enough to be read. As for your third point, you deliberately ignored the part where I said "lasting until the end of the 2 weeks." I repeatedly stated I wasn't confident in many of the reads, so no, I didn't "clearly believe the point." I stated the facts, that kpaca's read on Shinichi was backed up by nothing, and then I made an assumption. And I was right, my read on kpaca didn't last. New evidence made me reconsider that read.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
I think with myself and Vaimes moving to Rhand that Kpaca is down to 3 votes.
Sell me on the Shadow wagon por favor.
-_-
Excuse me? You want to be sold on it? I don't think so.
*sigh* I'm gonna have to reread you aren't I?
He gave no justification for voting you and I only remember him talking about Vaimes. I also thought I was quoting Wheat in that post. I've said a few times that I'm not voting you today. I want to no where this is coming from.
Oh, I misinterpreted your meaning. Hmm, I probably should reread you anyway at some point, but I'm less irritated now.
On one hand I don't find the opening particularly townie. It's not overtly scummy, but it's a little hey look at me! I wasn't scummy!
On the other I still like the shinichi read.
Back to the first, I hate the lack of conviction. RE clearly believes the point, but says "I'm not pushing anything" which isn't what I'd expect from town who thinks they found something scummy.
This makes no sense. How on earth could you interpret my first statement as that? All I said was pushing anything onto Terry wouldn't have made sense because he didn't post enough to be read. As for your third point, you deliberately ignored the part where I said "lasting until the end of the 2 weeks." I repeatedly stated I wasn't confident in many of the reads, so no, I didn't "clearly believe the point." I stated the facts, that kpaca's read on Shinichi was backed up by nothing, and then I made an assumption. And I was right, my read on kpaca didn't last. New evidence made me reconsider that read.
I mean you're explaining why something that you didn't do would have been scummy. How else am I supposed to take it?
I wasn't ignoring the two weeks part just didn't think it was relevant. You can push on something you think will be cleared up. I do it all the time.
You believed enough that the read was flimsy to post that you thought so. Maybe it's a play style difference but I don't see the town motivation in going on the record as not believing something, but not being willing to push someone on it. That's where I'm stuck.
I think with myself and Vaimes moving to Rhand that Kpaca is down to 3 votes.
Sell me on the Shadow wagon por favor.
-_-
Excuse me? You want to be sold on it? I don't think so.
*sigh* I'm gonna have to reread you aren't I?
He gave no justification for voting you and I only remember him talking about Vaimes. I also thought I was quoting Wheat in that post. I've said a few times that I'm not voting you today. I want to no where this is coming from.
Oh, I misinterpreted your meaning. Hmm, I probably should reread you anyway at some point, but I'm less irritated now.
Fair enough, my meaning wasn't clear since I made it a reply and not a quote. Wanted wheat to explain without biasing his answer.
On one hand I don't find the opening particularly townie. It's not overtly scummy, but it's a little hey look at me! I wasn't scummy!
On the other I still like the shinichi read.
Back to the first, I hate the lack of conviction. RE clearly believes the point, but says "I'm not pushing anything" which isn't what I'd expect from town who thinks they found something scummy.
This makes no sense. How on earth could you interpret my first statement as that? All I said was pushing anything onto Terry wouldn't have made sense because he didn't post enough to be read. As for your third point, you deliberately ignored the part where I said "lasting until the end of the 2 weeks." I repeatedly stated I wasn't confident in many of the reads, so no, I didn't "clearly believe the point." I stated the facts, that kpaca's read on Shinichi was backed up by nothing, and then I made an assumption. And I was right, my read on kpaca didn't last. New evidence made me reconsider that read.
I mean you're explaining why something that you didn't do would have been scummy. How else am I supposed to take it?
I wasn't ignoring the two weeks part just didn't think it was relevant. You can push on something you think will be cleared up. I do it all the time.
You believed enough that the read was flimsy to post that you thought so. Maybe it's a play style difference but I don't see the town motivation in going on the record as not believing something, but not being willing to push someone on it. That's where I'm stuck.
No, I'm saying from a logical standpoint, scum or town, that push doesn't make sense. Did you read what Terry wrote? He thought I was pushing a lynch (or something) on kpaca because kpaca was getting some heat and saw the push as opportunistic and guessed that I wouldn't push for a lynch on him (Terry) because he was being townread by other people. I just wanted to say that a push on Terry, regardless of whether he was being townread or not, wouldn't have made sense because he didn't post enough content to be read. It's not something scum or town would do. I mean, sure, if someone decided to do that, that could be considered scummy, but by saying that I wouldn't isn't me suggesting I'm town, but rather the act of not doing it is NAI. If that makes sense. My point was Terry's reasoning didn't make sense as for why I would choose kpaca over him, since there are more reasons not to go after Terry than him being townread by others.
Question: Did you find it odd that kpaca townread Shinichi (softly) and refused to explain why? I did. That's why I found him suspicious, and that's why I I voted for him. Those are the facts, but that doesn't automatically make kpaca scum. It just makes it ever so slightly more likely. Was it a strong read? No, but it was stronger than most of my others. I can't remember exactly what I was thinking at the time, but I'm pretty sure at that point I was still having trouble distinguishing players from each other. What kpaca did stood out most to me.
And yes, I would say it's a difference in playstyle. I'm perfectly aware that my reads are never guaranteed to be accurate, and that they usually aren't, regardless of how confident in them I am. I tend to rely on meta, a lot, and that's going to prove difficult in this game. Other players may feel the same, because it's a basic fact that mislynches are a common occurrence, the only difference is I admit it pretty openly. Except, you know, we'd never get anywhere without taking risks and making sacrifices.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Oh, I misinterpreted your meaning. Hmm, I probably should reread you anyway at some point, but I'm less irritated now.
After thinking on it overnight, I think that this whole exchange I snipped indicates town Shadow. Don't think scum!Shadow reacts that bluntly to that situation.
And everyone should reread this whole mess overnight. It's become a bit bogged down.
@RE too many words. I promise I'll get to them at some stage when I'm not trying to get out the door and explore.
On that note, may not be around for phase change. Depends entirely on where the city takes me today.
Vote count and deadline please cantrip. If it looks like a lynch between Rhonda and kpaca I'll move my vote to one of them. It looks like I'm the only one voting RE.
Immediate thoughts: Very slight scum lean on kpaca. I don't think this game is that out of character for him as either alignment. Grapefruit's 519 pings me as a town post.
vote: AtheistGod
I'm sorry but this is classic scum behavior. If this level of activity keeps up we're going to have to lynch you eventually.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
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I know I have memory problems it's something that effects me as both alignments but for others its different. As town your more inclinded to keep track of things and remember stuff. Scum cause alot of contradiction, if they're afraid to go back to search for things or repeat answers its obvious they might be scum. Also I wasn't trying to state I am townie, I know my own alignment lol i don't need to parade it around the thread. I clearly even stated i'm forgetful as both alignments so theoretically i wasnt even calling myself townie cause it could also be implied that I am scum.
I disagree because you can go around asking for an answer in a calm way, it's pretty clear from the post that you were little worried about something.
@bold What does this say about my alignment tho?
I dislike the fact that you won't quote it because ive actually gone back to read it so its weird that you wont quote it even now. Ok so you think roger was or is scum because it was clear he was trying to weed out the bad reads, but it wasnt taking the next step. I feel like discrediting reads is a step forward in a way, because eventually alot more people will start getting similar reads the ones that cant do that are scum.
Extremely biased, it's one thing to use past games as a basis for a read but to completely ignore vote targets because of past games doesn't feel right.
Sweet, thanks. When I say you are defensive of AG, I don't necessarily mean both of you are scum and you are defending him as a scumbuddy. I think if kpaca were to be mislynched, we'd be more lenient on the people on his train than on AG's train should he be mislynched. As of now, while not everyone is voting for kpaca, there is a general consensus that he is being weird and unsupportive of the little reads he's actually given, which is an anti-town thing to do, whereas AG has not done anything AI or significantly beneficial or harmful to town. As for responding as if I was thinking of AG at the time, I just answered the question without thinking too hard about it because it had a pretty obvious answer, but I didn't find it odd until later when we were still talking about it.
That all being said, if we're going to have a mislynch today, kpaca is the best option. There's no point in announcing your presence if you're not going to be responsive to everything that's happened so far.
I wasn't worried, just really confused, since there was a discrepancy in what you said and from my memory.
1. Makes you much much much more likely to be scum. Town doesn't need to work backwards.
2. I'm sorry. I'm traveling the states and haven't had consistent wifi access so I've been exclusively on mobile. Have a good connection now and have busted out my laptop. So quotes! No promises going forward, but I'll try.
3. You're right, but QH is now seeming super townie. And there are better targets than Shadow. From here out I'll not ignore them.
Am I correct in taking this to mean you don't think I am a mislynch then?
Yes. But I don't think you are going to be lynched today. People want kpaca dead too much for that.
I have a gut feeling that there won't be a majority lynch of Kpaaca toDay.
Outside of myself do you have any other scum reads?
Do you think Kpaca is a mislynch?
What about AG?
And why for both?
And is your read still based upon my "squeaky cleaness"? Just because I want it to be clear for the record that you are voting for me not because I've been scummy, or anti-town, or dead weight, but because I've been too townie. And if not I'd like to hear the case.
kpaca, yes, I'm leaning towards mislynch. AG I believe is just turning into an inactive, and from my experience, inactives tend to be town. I don't like that I don't have any strong feelings about AG, but I'm going to pretend he's getting replaced. If I had to choose, I'd go with AG is mislynch. My read on you is based on the squeaky cleaness, because that indicates to me you are not taking any real stabs. Yes, I know, we've been through this. But just skimming through page 10, you are bouncing reads like crazy. You have a rather large pool of people you are "fine" lynching, which indicates to me your strongest read is on the person you are currently voting for, and given the lack of posts and reactions from kpaca, that is not a good sign. You are not taking any strong stance on anyone in particular, except kpaca, and even then, I feel any argument against kpaca just sounds the same nowadays, and nobody is actively engaging convos with him. You are against lynching Vaimes but shortly later say you're reconsidering it, as well as the reads on me. I can't remember my exact words from what I said about you earlier, but if I said you were "too townie," that was a mistake. Squeaky clean doesn't mean towniness, it just means you haven't taken many risks.
Basically, you are far too willing to compromise, which shouldn't be the case because the person you're voting for is leading the lynch by a long shot.
I obviously haven't read that part of the game yet.
Vote: Rhand
If you haven't read that part of the game why are you FOS'ing me based on my reaction to it?
I can't pressure Rhand to answer for Roger's behavior because they are different people. I can either push for a lynch on rhand based on Roger's behavior and not give Rhand a chance to give his views on the game or I can look at other parts of the game while he catches up.
As for you not agreeing with my case on Roger that's all fine. Different strokes and all that. But that doesn't change the fact that I was pushing it which doesn't fit with your not rocking the boat read of me.
What makes Kpaca town?
Completely agree on AG.
How are my reads bouncing around like crazy? The only one to move on page ten was Vaimes and a promise to review you without changing my stance.
Why is willingness to compromise making me more likely to be scum? I don't see the connection there.
And I now understand what you mean by squeaky clean, I just don't think it is remotely true.
Behavior wise, eh, nothing much to be honest. The only thing that may indicate he's town is the lack of defensiveness/aggressiveness which was strongly present in his scum game Vaimes posted, but then again, it'd be a dead giveaway if he were to repeat that behavior. I think he's a mislynch though because he's been leading the lynch pretty much this entire phase with little resistance. The lynch itself feels off with everyone kind of just camped on him and I don't think his mafia buddies would let it get this far.
Hmm, I guess they're not bouncing like crazy, they just feel a little weak. It's not just your willing to compromise, it's that it doesn't make sense for you to compromise if kpaca's leading in the votes and you believe he's scum.
That's true. I think I'm going to take a backseat and see where you go with it. I may have been a little too quick to back off Rhand.
As for the aggressiveness he came out with it, but you are right that it hasn't persisted.
I was willing to compromise because my strongest read was Roger. And he wasn't in the game anymore, so I had three candidates I didn't feel strongly about and one who needed time. Now that Rhand has done something that makes a lot more sense if he were mafia here I'm back onto that and don't have to compromise anymore.
As for the strength part I was getting pressure from Shinichi for how strong my town reads were, so again I just don't agree with your view of my behavior. Also you calling me scum for having weak reads just after talking about how it's hard to have a behavioral read on two people is a bit (just for you QH) hypocritical.
Well, Vaimes and I have posted considerably more than kpaca and AG, but I see your point.
_________
Should I start a countertrain? I want to start one...
It's your reaction (or lack thereof) to me I was talking about.
I guess I see why kpaca is a good target for a wagon. He's not going to make a dazzling case to save himself, and a lot of us would just shrug at hist lynch, and as RE just voiced: he's acting anti-town, even if we don't have strong suspicions that it's an actual scum plan. 5 votes sprung up pretty fast, and I only really have town vibes from one or two of you. So I think I'd rather form the natural wagon that should be the leader at this point, which is Vote: Rhand
It sucks that you just replaced in, and I appreciate you doing that. But I can't shake that Roger is just caught scum. He wasn't hunting, he was nitpicking. He wasn't putting forth opinions other than that ours (mine) were bad. I still don't see a lot of hunting from you Rhand. Not reading works if you can be super active, and it's not working if you're just going to attack people without bothering to deal with context.
You are also going almost out of your way to not comment on the kpaca wagon. I waited a really long time for you to actually post something about it. And there were lots of opportunities for you to chime in. It's the thing going on right now. Lots of others, especially QH (who's post I loved. I don't think scum ever say "this wagon is making me uneasy" when it's a mislynch counterwagon 1 week away from deadline. I think they shut up, and then gradually shrug their shoulders and vote. The way I expect you would have in the next day or so. Saying any lynch is better than no lynch, boom.), committed to actual opinions on it. All you have said is "this is typical kpaca". That you responded to that question at all says you think you're in a position to read scum!kpaca from town!kpaca. But you haven't weighed in? That has to be deliberate distancing, and I think the only way that happens is if you're scum and don't want to champion a buddy you think might die anyway OR you think he can potentially be a mislynch and are playing wait-and-see.
Anyway, that's why I think you should be the counterwagon here, and I think you're the best lynch for the day.
For everyone else: I don't in any way, want us to spend the next few days arguing over whether Kpaca and AG are town/scum based solely on how they are lurking. That's straight garbage. They get a reprieve today, because I think Rhand is a better lynch for sure. But I'm not spending the whole game trying to guess somebody's alignment from 30 words over 11 pages.
I have a townread on RE, a scumread on Grape and that's it.
I will invest time in this game, but I can't for another 10 days, so I am basing my reads on, as I said from the beginning, what is happening now.
Anyway, care to share your opinions on the Kpaca wagon? Instead of continuing to hedge? Gonna vote it? What about the people on it? Any opinion at all.
I can't tell you more without reading the game, which I can't do right now.
I won't vote at all toDay unless it's needed for a deadline lynch or something happens that convinces me.
Unvote, vote: RE1031
I really think that clears him.
Other than kpaca, when have I voted for the "flavor of the day"? I'm pretty sure Grapefruit was not under any heat at the time I voted for him, except from Rhand. I have been suspicious of Grapefruit for a long while now, it's not like my vote came out of nowhere. I get that you think I'm scum, but my vote on Grapefruit was not a jump of any kind. So yes, please be more detailed (and accurate).
I mean, I still did react to it. Right here. It wasn't a quote though so it was easy to get lost.
I'll have to catch up.
Immediate thoughts: Very slight scum lean on kpaca. I don't think this game is that out of character for him as either alignment. Grapefruit's 519 pings me as a town post.
Please put your vote down on your strongest scumread and explain why you have that read, or reaffirm that you want to lynch me for x, y and z reasons.
Here's an exercise for you:
Vaimes (2): Wheat_Grinder, kpaca
kpaca (5): AtheistGod, Vaimes, Grapefruit21, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry, shadowlancerx
AtheistGod (1): Mindreaver
shadowlancerx (1): Quickhoodies
Not Voting: RE1031, Rhand, Shinichi
Pretend the mod has publicly townfirmed me. What is the scumteam doing? Who is trying to mislynch you, and who is misguided town?
We don't have a lot of time before deadline, so if you want to live, please participate.
while kpaca catches up.
I don't like that wagon.
I don't expect Vaimes to be lynched, so let's try something else:
Vote: Shadowlancerx
If we come up to the deadline I'll move my vote to Rhand or kpaca. But I really don't like the kpaca wagon and really don't think he's scum.
If it helps, I think there's reasonable evidence you're scum on your own, too. It's just not strong enough for me to believe you're scum if Vaimes isn't also scum.
121, 123, and 124 are focused on Shadow's early questions. I find them scummy overall, but I like that sort of questions. Making people not only ask good questions, but be able to answer for their intent makes it harder to hide for scum.
135 I like for the self aware tone.
Skipping ahead to 178 this is another post I like. I think I like the meta dump on Shinichi. Hopping on the Kpaca train I think was a good move for that time, right vote even if it might be part of an opportunistic pattern.
I've stared at the below post for a while and can't make up my mind.
On one hand I don't find the opening particularly townie. It's not overtly scummy, but it's a little hey look at me! I wasn't scummy!
On the other I still like the shinichi read.
Back to the first, I hate the lack of conviction. RE clearly believes the point, but says "I'm not pushing anything" which isn't what I'd expect from town who thinks they found something scummy.
And I'm out of time for the night. Won't have time to get through RE before the deadline. Not seeing anything that makes me want to lynch them more anyway.
Sell me on the Shadow wagon por favor.
Excuse me? You want to be sold on it? I don't think so.
*sigh* I'm gonna have to reread you aren't I?
He gave no justification for voting you and I only remember him talking about Vaimes. I also thought I was quoting Wheat in that post. I've said a few times that I'm not voting you today. I want to no where this is coming from.
It doesn't really help if you can't actually state the evidence. It's just about as helpful as catching up posts with no follow up.
This makes no sense. How on earth could you interpret my first statement as that? All I said was pushing anything onto Terry wouldn't have made sense because he didn't post enough to be read. As for your third point, you deliberately ignored the part where I said "lasting until the end of the 2 weeks." I repeatedly stated I wasn't confident in many of the reads, so no, I didn't "clearly believe the point." I stated the facts, that kpaca's read on Shinichi was backed up by nothing, and then I made an assumption. And I was right, my read on kpaca didn't last. New evidence made me reconsider that read.
I mean you're explaining why something that you didn't do would have been scummy. How else am I supposed to take it?
I wasn't ignoring the two weeks part just didn't think it was relevant. You can push on something you think will be cleared up. I do it all the time.
You believed enough that the read was flimsy to post that you thought so. Maybe it's a play style difference but I don't see the town motivation in going on the record as not believing something, but not being willing to push someone on it. That's where I'm stuck.
Fair enough, my meaning wasn't clear since I made it a reply and not a quote. Wanted wheat to explain without biasing his answer.
No, I'm saying from a logical standpoint, scum or town, that push doesn't make sense. Did you read what Terry wrote? He thought I was pushing a lynch (or something) on kpaca because kpaca was getting some heat and saw the push as opportunistic and guessed that I wouldn't push for a lynch on him (Terry) because he was being townread by other people. I just wanted to say that a push on Terry, regardless of whether he was being townread or not, wouldn't have made sense because he didn't post enough content to be read. It's not something scum or town would do. I mean, sure, if someone decided to do that, that could be considered scummy, but by saying that I wouldn't isn't me suggesting I'm town, but rather the act of not doing it is NAI. If that makes sense. My point was Terry's reasoning didn't make sense as for why I would choose kpaca over him, since there are more reasons not to go after Terry than him being townread by others.
Question: Did you find it odd that kpaca townread Shinichi (softly) and refused to explain why? I did. That's why I found him suspicious, and that's why I I voted for him. Those are the facts, but that doesn't automatically make kpaca scum. It just makes it ever so slightly more likely. Was it a strong read? No, but it was stronger than most of my others. I can't remember exactly what I was thinking at the time, but I'm pretty sure at that point I was still having trouble distinguishing players from each other. What kpaca did stood out most to me.
And yes, I would say it's a difference in playstyle. I'm perfectly aware that my reads are never guaranteed to be accurate, and that they usually aren't, regardless of how confident in them I am. I tend to rely on meta, a lot, and that's going to prove difficult in this game. Other players may feel the same, because it's a basic fact that mislynches are a common occurrence, the only difference is I admit it pretty openly. Except, you know, we'd never get anywhere without taking risks and making sacrifices.
Wait... you're voting a player that isn't caught up to let tge other catch up?
I have more to respond to. I hope I can today with the deadline tomorrow.
After thinking on it overnight, I think that this whole exchange I snipped indicates town Shadow. Don't think scum!Shadow reacts that bluntly to that situation.
And everyone should reread this whole mess overnight. It's become a bit bogged down.
@RE too many words. I promise I'll get to them at some stage when I'm not trying to get out the door and explore.
On that note, may not be around for phase change. Depends entirely on where the city takes me today.
Dormez-vous? Dormez-vous?
Sonnez les pleureuses! Sonnez les pleureuses!
Ding, dang, dong. Ding, dang, dong.
Je m'excuse pour mon mauvais français.
Votecount 1.6 - With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.
Vaimes (1): kpaca
kpaca (1): shadowlancerx
shadowlancerx (2): Quickhoodies, Wheat_Grinder
Grapefruit21 (1): RE1031
Rhand (3): Grapefruit21, Mindreaver, Vaimes
RE1031 (1): TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
Not Voting: AtheistGod, Rhand, Shinichi
Please inform me of any errors.
Deadline is at 0900 hours MDT on Friday June 29th, less than 24 hours from now.
C'mon, people, participate, please.
vote: AtheistGod
I'm sorry but this is classic scum behavior. If this level of activity keeps up we're going to have to lynch you eventually.