So, that's an exhausting rabbit hole I'd rather not continue down. I think I was perfectly clear what I was talking about. Vaimes was defensive toward me, so he clearly knew I was talking to him. I'll leave it to the thread at large, if I was unclear. If so, I'll go through my posts and remove the pronouns. But honestly, I don't see a point.
And Mindreaver I do not believe for a second I'm better than you. I'm like 1-9 in my career and the one I replaced out early and got my replacement vigged... Plus I was one of the biggest voices trying to save you in Mistborn >_>
Still not liking Roger Sherman. That walling back and forth with Mind just doesn't read town on a first read.
(Before someone grills me on having done the same but for Vaimes - Vaimes behavior seemed inconsistent with what I expected, while kpaca's and shinichi's did not).
kpaca says he doesn't have a strong read on anyone, everybody is okay with it
vaimes says he doesn't have a strong read on anyone, everybody is okay with it
shinichi says he doesn't have a strong read on anyone NOW EVERYONE IS PISSED
Can someone explain to me exactly what the difference is?
kpaca I tried to engage and got kpaca, so I'm not dealing with him. Vaimes has town reads. Shinichi's reads are fake, and so hedged that they need trimming.
So, that's an exhausting rabbit hole I'd rather not continue down. I think I was perfectly clear what I was talking about. Vaimes was defensive toward me, so he clearly knew I was talking to him. I'll leave it to the thread at large, if I was unclear. If so, I'll go through my posts and remove the pronouns. But honestly, I don't see a point.
I don't remember where Vaimes was defensive toward you after your post #95. Now would be a good time to have linked references.
But I'll let the issue stand and say the post speaks for itself and I don't see it aimed at Vaimes. And I'm not quite sure why you insist that it does.
1. AtheistGod (Neutral)-Not really enough to go by to figure out any sort of motive/Alignment
2. Grapefruit21 (Town)- Just from his interactions with vaimes and me I believe he is town atleast from the first 4 pages, time may change that.
3. kpaca (Town) - Like I said in a recent post he's more neutral/town lean than anything, his town read on me doesnt feel as sloppy as others make it out to be, honestly he's prob just noticecd something that others haven't.
4. Mindreaver (Neutral)- You come off as neutral for me for the same reason as QH but i don't know you as a player I just can't get a read off of you at all.
5. Quickhoodies (Neutral)-With his big posts and knowledge of the kind of player he is I honestly can't get anything from his posts.
6. RE1031(Scum Lean)- Your leaning way to onto just for my particular liking, I feel as though scum would normally just to pocket those who they are friends with and tho we aren't voting together it seems like you really like talking about me my DC buddy.
7. Roger Sherman(Neutral)-Not really enough to go by to figure out any sort of motive/Alignment
8. shadowlancerx (Scum Lean)-You seemed to be white knighting me alot which i found weird and i only noticed now after i back read, also you focused alot of your early posts on Kpaca, seem's like you were eager to jump on a person you could put alot of eyes on.
10. TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (Town)- This prob very biased but his entrance alone screams town motivated and a town player
11. Vaimes (Town/Scum)- Our interaction states 1 thing either I'm scum or your scum, but I don't think either is true your reaction towards me states that your town. Only reason i put the scum part is because other feel as though that is what makes you a scumlean.
12. Wheat_Grinder (town)- I believe you are hands down town just from your interactions with the other players.
After tomorrow ill prob reread all of vaimes post so i can get a proper read on him, same goes for the others i tagged as scum or scum lean.
Let me show you how to do a list:
TOWN
1. TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (Town)- DUH
2. Mindreaver (Prob Town)- Flavor claim was solid and matched with mine. Scum never claims bad guy flavor in this situation
3. Wheat_Grinder (Lean Town)- Posts seem solvey, just suspicious enough, not defensive. Not sure I love his town read on me or the fact that AG spent his last two posts proclaiming WG's towniniess. I mean, I love to be obv town, but I seem like I got some pretty easy town red for my entrance from several people, WG included.
4. Quickhoodies (Lean Town)- Has some big meaty posts, but seems a bit absent lately. I know this game is going slow, but I expect more from QH before much longer.
5. Grapefruit21 (Null/Town)- I need to read more of this guy. I get a town vibe from his posts. They seem pretty explorative, but I'm going to watch him a bit longer to get a better read.
6. Vaimes (Null)- Vaimes play has seemed decent, but for some reason I'm getting the shivers about him. Maybe I'm scared of of his scum game, hence why he takes a null slot.
7. AtheistGod (Null/Scum)- If AG doesn't step up his posting soon, he's moving down this list pretty fast. All his posts are handing out town cred
8. RE1031(Scum Lean)- The jump on Kpaca was a bit opportunistic, so if Kpaca isn't scum, I'd bet RE1031 is. I don't like doing things like dichotomies but it's my though right now. Also seems surprised about Mindreader's flavor claim and I feel like might have made a PR Hunting note in #243.
9. shadowlancerx (Scum Lean)-The quick angle shot defense of Roger seemed a bit protective of someone I think is scum. I re-read Shadow's ISO and a lot of it seems like it's just yelling from the sidelines instead of on the game field. This is a tone thing and Shadow was a bit defensive when Shinichi leaned scum on him.
10. Shinichi (Prob Scum)- This one is my lightest scum read, but the list I'm quoting seemed real fence sitty, with not a ton of meat. Something felt off with her interaction with Kpaca which seems a bit fabricated. A lot of TBF, which kind of red flags me a bit. Claims a lot of people are reading her town.
11. kpaca (Prob Scum) - RVS stuff seemed off/aggressive for RVS, no reasoning or logic behind his votes and his posts, defensive
12. Roger Sherman(Prob Scum)-No motivation, posts seem long but hollow. Low posting SCUM
And Mindreaver I do not believe for a second I'm better than you. I'm like 1-9 in my career and the one I replaced out early and got my replacement vigged... Plus I was one of the biggest voices trying to save you in Mistborn >_>
Still not liking Roger Sherman. That walling back and forth with Mind just doesn't read town on a first read.
Vote: RogerSherman
T
Quotes later today.
Ok, I said I need to watch you more, but coming up with the same read on Roger as I did is +town!
8. RE1031(Scum Lean)- The jump on Kpaca was a bit opportunistic, so if Kpaca isn't scum, I'd bet RE1031 is. I don't like doing things like dichotomies but it's my though right now. Also seems surprised about Mindreader's flavor claim and I feel like might have made a PR Hunting note in #243.
So... Let me get this straight. What happened between you unvoting me and now?
Also explain why I would make a PR "hunting" note in the thread everybody sees?
You simultaneously have kpaca under "prob scum," which is a stronger scum read than me, and me as scum because of my read of kpaca, which I'll say is basically the same as yours. Yet somehow my jump on kpaca is opportunistic and your read isn't? Your own logic can be applied against you.
Also, how does your list work again? Your reads on WG and QH seem like they shouldn't be town reads.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
We had roughly 7 people actively posting in the beginning. My hypothesis is, that there is some number of scum in:
Grapefruit21
kpaca
Quickhoodies
Shinichi
Vaimes
Wheat_Grinder
Sorry to cut out most of this post, but i have to agree with you here outside of myself im sure atleast 1 of these players are scum if not 2.
If it's 1 then im pretty positive one of the quiet one is partnered with a talker. Though this theory is completely invalid if 3 mafia are in this game but i feel as though its more likely 2 are involved.
Ngl I'm not a fan of narrowing down suspects like this. I think this is a scummy thing to do - it directs attention away from the person who makes the list and the people not in the list and gets the people in the list to be against each other. I've seen this before, although much later in the game. You can analyze interactions to theorize alignment, but listing? If Mindreaver is a townie, then this might just end up giving scum a free pass. If they're scum, then this list is actually quite manipulative. And I think it's working.
Whats wrong with narrowing down subjects tho and who says mind reaver isn't in that list for me too. Also if he put himself in that list i would have assumed he was scum right away.
6. RE1031(Scum Lean)- Your leaning way to onto just for my particular liking, I feel as though scum would normally just to pocket those who they are friends with and tho we aren't voting together it seems like you really like talking about me my DC buddy.
I thought you knew me better than that... ;-;
If you think I'm leaning onto you, it's only because you're the only one here I know.
As for other players, I'm finding Vaimes to be my strongest town read. He's actively defending others and himself. Half the time, votes are a result of failure to communicate with one another, but I feel he's helping clarify things. kpaca I have a inkling of suspicion to be jester. He's not worried at all, but he hasn't actually bothered defending himself? Terry's on and off vote on me I don't quite get, could be nothing, or could be scum who saw an opportunity but doesn't seem worth it now. Mindreaver I probably will have to take a closer look at, because his list, it bothers me.
I'm having a lot of trouble distinguishing players from each other. Hopefully through interactions I'll get a better feel.
I do know you, but don't forget I can care less about past games or any interaction outside of this game itself. So your implying hes jester do to just having a trolly attitude? I feel like if terry was scum i see no reason for him to unvote that easily. Vaines is def one of my strongest town reads but like I said it seems people dont like his early reactions towwards me. I can't really connect anyone or understand anyone at this point lol I am really bad at that early game.
When someone called you out on it, you said "every read is soft at this stage." You neither defended it more elaborated on it.
well how do you know it's a flimsy soft read if I didn't explain why is my point.
Okay, so do you have an explanation or not?
My personal judgement is that it's flimsy because I see very little town motivation in his opening non-RVS posts.
I can feel the hate u have for me, or maybe thats just the urge of you wanting me to be scum really badly not sure which yet. Also how can you judge the town motivation outise of 1 of the first posts of the game.
WG sounds pretty town. Not exactly certain what he sees as scummy from Vaimes, but his tone is townie.
AG, I know this game is off to a slow start, but how about some why's. Why is WG pretty town? Tone? You can do better. I don't want to mislynch you again, so do some splaining.
WG is actively engaged. He is more disinterested when he's scum.
Is this really a fair assessment to make? I feel like this statement will get pocketed very easily.
Shinichi, do you think Mindreaver is scum? If so, why?
If you think someone else is scum, please move your vote over to them and explain why you think they're mafia.
If you don't want to move your vote, please explain why.
I'll start off by saying i barely move my vote,unless it's to pursue a very strong scum read.
For now tho Unvote
I would say i am neutral on him still I can't really get a good read on him yet, if anything all my reads on players are very lacking cause not used to playing with any of you except the 4 I know.
How about trying to get a pinpoint read on the four you know then? Or are you afraid we'll use our meta to fool you?
Meta means nothing to me lol, ive learned from the past you can play amazingly as town and still flip scum.
Also logically in a closed setup everyones guilty till proven innocent since people can claim and still be scum.
Though this theory is completely invalid if 3 mafia are in this game but i feel as though its more likely 2 are involved.
O.o
How many 12 player games have you played in, and how many had 2 scum? Maybe just a site by site difference, but all of the 12 player setups that follow traditional Mafia rules that I've seen use 3.
3. kpaca (Town) - Like I said in a recent post he's more neutral/town lean than anything, his town read on me doesnt feel as sloppy as others make it out to be, honestly he's prob just noticecd something that others haven't.
You're going to have to delve into this one a bit more. What did he notice?
Quote from Shinichi »
8. shadowlancerx (Scum Lean)-You seemed to be white knighting me alot which i found weird and i only noticed now after i back read
I'm sorry, what? This is blatantly false.
Vote Shinichi
Anyone townreading Shinichi, please go back and read his read wall, it's a mess.
Like sure, a couple people have said he gets scum read regardless, but that read walls screams "keep options open."
Your reading way to into my posts buddy lol
2 games to be exact
I'm not sure what he noticed, i was just trying to come up with a reason for his town read that's all.
How is it false, until this post it felt like u were defending me even if you blantly didnt point it out.
Yet another vote though how surprising, maybe i'm just a cursed player haha.
We had roughly 7 people actively posting in the beginning. My hypothesis is, that there is some number of scum in:
Grapefruit21
kpaca
Quickhoodies
Shinichi
Vaimes
Wheat_Grinder
Sorry to cut out most of this post, but i have to agree with you here outside of myself im sure atleast 1 of these players are scum if not 2.
If it's 1 then im pretty positive one of the quiet one is partnered with a talker. Though this theory is completely invalid if 3 mafia are in this game but i feel as though its more likely 2 are involved.
Ngl I'm not a fan of narrowing down suspects like this. I think this is a scummy thing to do - it directs attention away from the person who makes the list and the people not in the list and gets the people in the list to be against each other. I've seen this before, although much later in the game. You can analyze interactions to theorize alignment, but listing? If Mindreaver is a townie, then this might just end up giving scum a free pass. If they're scum, then this list is actually quite manipulative. And I think it's working.
Interesting. I like you. Moving you to the town column. I hadn't really thought about it in that way.
I wasn't really trying to, give anyone a pass. I just wanted to share my thought process in the beginning. Obviously it's going to change. It's entirely possible that the entire scum team didn't post actively when the game started. In that case, I'm still pretty set on AG, at least until I get more from him. I'd like an answer from terry as well.
No one else feel weirded out be this post, it feels like reaver just pocketed RE10 super hard here.
1. AtheistGod (Neutral)-Not really enough to go by to figure out any sort of motive/Alignment
2. Grapefruit21 (Town)- Just from his interactions with vaimes and me I believe he is town atleast from the first 4 pages, time may change that.
3. kpaca (Town) - Like I said in a recent post he's more neutral/town lean than anything, his town read on me doesnt feel as sloppy as others make it out to be, honestly he's prob just noticecd something that others haven't.
4. Mindreaver (Neutral)- You come off as neutral for me for the same reason as QH but i don't know you as a player I just can't get a read off of you at all.
5. Quickhoodies (Neutral)-With his big posts and knowledge of the kind of player he is I honestly can't get anything from his posts.
6. RE1031(Scum Lean)- Your leaning way to onto just for my particular liking, I feel as though scum would normally just to pocket those who they are friends with and tho we aren't voting together it seems like you really like talking about me my DC buddy.
7. Roger Sherman(Neutral)-Not really enough to go by to figure out any sort of motive/Alignment
8. shadowlancerx (Scum Lean)-You seemed to be white knighting me alot which i found weird and i only noticed now after i back read, also you focused alot of your early posts on Kpaca, seem's like you were eager to jump on a person you could put alot of eyes on.
10. TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (Town)- This prob very biased but his entrance alone screams town motivated and a town player
11. Vaimes (Town/Scum)- Our interaction states 1 thing either I'm scum or your scum, but I don't think either is true your reaction towards me states that your town. Only reason i put the scum part is because other feel as though that is what makes you a scumlean.
12. Wheat_Grinder (town)- I believe you are hands down town just from your interactions with the other players.
After tomorrow ill prob reread all of vaimes post so i can get a proper read on him, same goes for the others i tagged as scum or scum lean.
AM I the only one or does this whole post just read Fence ALL. I know it's early, but what's the point?
ASOmeone asked me for reads so those are my reads right now, I didn't find a point to it either but i thought it would helppeople understand my thought process.
1. AtheistGod (Neutral)-Not really enough to go by to figure out any sort of motive/Alignment
2. Grapefruit21 (Town)- Just from his interactions with vaimes and me I believe he is town atleast from the first 4 pages, time may change that.
3. kpaca (Town) - Like I said in a recent post he's more neutral/town lean than anything, his town read on me doesnt feel as sloppy as others make it out to be, honestly he's prob just noticecd something that others haven't.
4. Mindreaver (Neutral)- You come off as neutral for me for the same reason as QH but i don't know you as a player I just can't get a read off of you at all.
5. Quickhoodies (Neutral)-With his big posts and knowledge of the kind of player he is I honestly can't get anything from his posts.
6. RE1031(Scum Lean)- Your leaning way to onto just for my particular liking, I feel as though scum would normally just to pocket those who they are friends with and tho we aren't voting together it seems like you really like talking about me my DC buddy.
7. Roger Sherman(Neutral)-Not really enough to go by to figure out any sort of motive/Alignment
8. shadowlancerx (Scum Lean)-You seemed to be white knighting me alot which i found weird and i only noticed now after i back read, also you focused alot of your early posts on Kpaca, seem's like you were eager to jump on a person you could put alot of eyes on.
10. TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (Town)- This prob very biased but his entrance alone screams town motivated and a town player
11. Vaimes (Town/Scum)- Our interaction states 1 thing either I'm scum or your scum, but I don't think either is true your reaction towards me states that your town. Only reason i put the scum part is because other feel as though that is what makes you a scumlean.
12. Wheat_Grinder (town)- I believe you are hands down town just from your interactions with the other players.
After tomorrow ill prob reread all of vaimes post so i can get a proper read on him, same goes for the others i tagged as scum or scum lean.
Let me show you how to do a list:
TOWN
1. TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (Town)- DUH
2. Mindreaver (Prob Town)- Flavor claim was solid and matched with mine. Scum never claims bad guy flavor in this situation
3. Wheat_Grinder (Lean Town)- Posts seem solvey, just suspicious enough, not defensive. Not sure I love his town read on me or the fact that AG spent his last two posts proclaiming WG's towniniess. I mean, I love to be obv town, but I seem like I got some pretty easy town red for my entrance from several people, WG included.
4. Quickhoodies (Lean Town)- Has some big meaty posts, but seems a bit absent lately. I know this game is going slow, but I expect more from QH before much longer.
5. Grapefruit21 (Null/Town)- I need to read more of this guy. I get a town vibe from his posts. They seem pretty explorative, but I'm going to watch him a bit longer to get a better read.
6. Vaimes (Null)- Vaimes play has seemed decent, but for some reason I'm getting the shivers about him. Maybe I'm scared of of his scum game, hence why he takes a null slot.
7. AtheistGod (Null/Scum)- If AG doesn't step up his posting soon, he's moving down this list pretty fast. All his posts are handing out town cred
8. RE1031(Scum Lean)- The jump on Kpaca was a bit opportunistic, so if Kpaca isn't scum, I'd bet RE1031 is. I don't like doing things like dichotomies but it's my though right now. Also seems surprised about Mindreader's flavor claim and I feel like might have made a PR Hunting note in #243.
9. shadowlancerx (Scum Lean)-The quick angle shot defense of Roger seemed a bit protective of someone I think is scum. I re-read Shadow's ISO and a lot of it seems like it's just yelling from the sidelines instead of on the game field. This is a tone thing and Shadow was a bit defensive when Shinichi leaned scum on him.
10. Shinichi (Prob Scum)- This one is my lightest scum read, but the list I'm quoting seemed real fence sitty, with not a ton of meat. Something felt off with her interaction with Kpaca which seems a bit fabricated. A lot of TBF, which kind of red flags me a bit. Claims a lot of people are reading her town.
11. kpaca (Prob Scum) - RVS stuff seemed off/aggressive for RVS, no reasoning or logic behind his votes and his posts, defensive
12. Roger Sherman(Prob Scum)-No motivation, posts seem long but hollow. Low posting SCUM
Ok, now that's done, let's party:
VOTE: Roger
Idk if this is a challenge but either way I like this read list alot better than mine. Though not a fan that you put your own name in the list.
I guess i'll just put my 2 cents here
2.How can you be so sure of that situation tho?
4.Why is he a town lean though?
6.I feel like vaimes shouldnt be a null at all with the amount of content he has, espically with the interaction between me and him.
9.I felt like his reaction to my read on him was weird too, but feel like he just thought my reads were bad.
10. What makes u think they were fabricated?
12.I see motivation i just cant ditinguish the alignment of that motivation.
And Mindreaver I do not believe for a second I'm better than you. I'm like 1-9 in my career and the one I replaced out early and got my replacement vigged... Plus I was one of the biggest voices trying to save you in Mistborn >_>
Still not liking Roger Sherman. That walling back and forth with Mind just doesn't read town on a first read.
Vote: RogerSherman
T
Quotes later today.
Ok, I said I need to watch you more, but coming up with the same read on Roger as I did is +town!
I don't think so the interactions that people were having with roger were already leading up to him being voted, it was clear from most if not all of those interactions that some thought he was scumming. So having similar reads shouldn't be odd the opposite would be at this point.
We had roughly 7 people actively posting in the beginning. My hypothesis is, that there is some number of scum in:
Grapefruit21
kpaca
Quickhoodies
Shinichi
Vaimes
Wheat_Grinder
Sorry to cut out most of this post, but i have to agree with you here outside of myself im sure atleast 1 of these players are scum if not 2.
If it's 1 then im pretty positive one of the quiet one is partnered with a talker. Though this theory is completely invalid if 3 mafia are in this game but i feel as though its more likely 2 are involved.
Ngl I'm not a fan of narrowing down suspects like this. I think this is a scummy thing to do - it directs attention away from the person who makes the list and the people not in the list and gets the people in the list to be against each other. I've seen this before, although much later in the game. You can analyze interactions to theorize alignment, but listing? If Mindreaver is a townie, then this might just end up giving scum a free pass. If they're scum, then this list is actually quite manipulative. And I think it's working.
Interesting. I like you. Moving you to the town column. I hadn't really thought about it in that way.
I wasn't really trying to, give anyone a pass. I just wanted to share my thought process in the beginning. Obviously it's going to change. It's entirely possible that the entire scum team didn't post actively when the game started. In that case, I'm still pretty set on AG, at least until I get more from him. I'd like an answer from terry as well.
No one else feel weirded out be this post, it feels like reaver just pocketed RE10 super hard here.
I can't pocket everyone guys I'm just sharing exactly what my thoughts are. He made a good point, he gets credit. I don't expect him to follow me off a cliff now.
So, that's an exhausting rabbit hole I'd rather not continue down. I think I was perfectly clear what I was talking about. Vaimes was defensive toward me, so he clearly knew I was talking to him. I'll leave it to the thread at large, if I was unclear. If so, I'll go through my posts and remove the pronouns. But honestly, I don't see a point.
I don't remember where Vaimes was defensive toward you after your post #95. Now would be a good time to have linked references.
But I'll let the issue stand and say the post speaks for itself and I don't see it aimed at Vaimes. And I'm not quite sure why you insist that it does.
I'll throw you this bone. But when I went back, the exchange we're talking about is my 71, followed by Vaimes 72, and 73. Not exactly hard to find.
So read those, it's my first position on the Vaimes/Shin stuff.
Then I sorta get what you're talking about... with 95:
Not exactly sure. So far my notes are that he might be scummy for exactly the reasons you've noted. Basically not taking that "next step" that people who haven't solved the game might take. But that doesn't help me much right now, since he's never played here before, I've never played with him, and I have no idea what his skill level is.
So @Shinichi: What's your history? Are you a rockstar?
I mean, that's what struck me about you. Not that you picked up on that stuff, but how quickly you went from 0 to 100. I'm gonna go read the rest of your responses, because i just glossed over it quickly earlier. I was more interested to see how you and Grapefruit would respond, specifically if I could see if you were scum that were pleased how you'd positioned yourselves.
I'll comment on Kpaca as well. Seems like he just playing a "I'm drop one-liners" game for now. But I don't see him having much of an agenda. Like, I just don't see him steering the convo any particular place or making anyone in particular looks suspect. I'll feel better when he stops with the games, and has content. But I don't see a smoking gun either.
I bolded the only part that was talking to Shinichi. The rest was to vaimes, and then my comments on kpaca.
Regarding AG, to me he's one you kind of just let alone for a day and see what he does. I'm not willing to wagon him based on the low impact argument.
I'm at a rough spot because that's how I feel about half the game right now. I don't think wagoning any of: Kpaca, wheat, AG, or Shinichi is going to give me anything. And giving free passes to people is a horrible policy in general and leads to awful end games with nothing to analyze, but I also want today to be productive.
I think I kind of want to form a wagon on Kpaca despite my earlier reservations. But I am going to do my due diligence on Roger first.
And Mindreaver I do not believe for a second I'm better than you. I'm like 1-9 in my career and the one I replaced out early and got my replacement vigged... Plus I was one of the biggest voices trying to save you in Mistborn >_>
Still not liking Roger Sherman. That walling back and forth with Mind just doesn't read town on a first read.
Vote: RogerSherman
T
Quotes later today.
Ok, I said I need to watch you more, but coming up with the same read on Roger as I did is +town!
I like coming to the same conclusion on Roger, but I don't like your stated reasoning.
Can you expand on RE, QH, Roger, and Shadow for me please.
If we were buddies i would not make it that painfully obvious nice try to I do give you some townie points for this though very little.
Post 20 has nothing to do with you, what exactly is your definition of white knighting?
Did i quote the wrong post because im pretty sure it does, you stood up for me when i said he was being aggresive.
CHainsawing in for a second as a third party I saw that as providing a meta dump and not standing up for you. Explaining that Kpaca is always like that and it's not really about you in that sense.
kpaca says he doesn't have a strong read on anyone, everybody is okay with it
vaimes says he doesn't have a strong read on anyone, everybody is okay with it
shinichi says he doesn't have a strong read on anyone NOW EVERYONE IS PISSED
Can someone explain to me exactly what the difference is?
Wasn't Vaimes very strongly not okay with Kpaca having a soft read and his issue with Shinichi stemming from Shinichi saying that read was legit and okay?
And for the record I'm not okay with Kpaca stating he doesn't have a strong read. I'm okay with Vaimes saying it because his despite that hedging provided textual reasons and took a stance and defended it. And didn't try to use "it wasn't a strong read" as an excuse to not stand behind it.
That is the main difference to me.
As for Shinichi it's more that his reads are all over the place and I feel like I'm reading a different game. Plus his sticking to his guns and attempting to defend the Kpaca town read of himself and his defense of the of his acceptance of that read.
I do know you, but don't forget I can care less about past games or any interaction outside of this game itself. So your implying hes jester do to just having a trolly attitude? I feel like if terry was scum i see no reason for him to unvote that easily. Vaines is def one of my strongest town reads but like I said it seems people dont like his early reactions towwards me. I can't really connect anyone or understand anyone at this point lol I am really bad at that early game.
Also you know grapefruit do u not lol?
That's the thing, Terry hasn't changed his mind about me and my scumminess, so I don't get why he unvoted me. It's not like it's because he found a better lead at the time. I don't get what he was hoping to accomplish by unvoting just from a single "good" post from me.
Yeah I know Grapefruit, but it's been a couple months since I played with him and I am currently getting weird vibes from him.
Interesting. I like you. Moving you to the town column. I hadn't really thought about it in that way.
I wasn't really trying to, give anyone a pass. I just wanted to share my thought process in the beginning. Obviously it's going to change. It's entirely possible that the entire scum team didn't post actively when the game started. In that case, I'm still pretty set on AG, at least until I get more from him. I'd like an answer from terry as well.
No one else feel weirded out be this post, it feels like reaver just pocketed RE10 super hard here.
Not this post, the one where he claims his flavor is bad but his role is good. I don't see scum doing that.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Since I'm catching up as I type this and taking the game a bit more casual than I usually am. For a lack of admitting I totally forgot about it...
I'll be addressing posts by page that strike my attention.
Page2
I don't quite understand the context of the second sentence. If this was something you were considering beforehand why the pressure on Shin? Mindraver mentions also on Page2 that you're a robot. #96 I assume this is as your very logical when playing, but this post doesn't seem to follow much. It looks more to me like something to do in RVS or to build a persona of working out conclusions among the others. Care to share your mindset during this time?
Why are you considering the flavor when it has no relevance to the game? Also you complain about the lack of content yet fail to suggest a means of remedy or try to prevent it. Why? It sounds like an excuse to not have an opinion.
This post comes off too defensive with the snark attached at the end. It seems a little too early for that if there truly was hardly anything to have faith in reads on.
I would wager they wouldn't be too pleased with how they positioned themselves considering Shin was being suspected early on. If they wanted to build a town read, then sure but that had yet to happen as of this post. How exactly would you tell if this were the case?
Page3
Why is everyone guilty for you? You seem to have conflicting thoughts in this post.
Page4
1)That seems like a rather weak reason to be comfortable a pair aren't aligned. What about Grape makes you think that he would take up for Vaimes?
2)I can see how these reasons would work for Kpaca and WG individually, but I'm not seeing how it relates to them being a team. Mafia doesn't have to be in sync with their strategies. Playing to your town meta early on in RVS is just as helpful as strong arming opinion and thought.
3)Care to elaborate? Just what exactly is it about their interactions? This doesn't really speak of your thought processes, and more so to the general opinion.
So I went through and snipped out all the quotes because I think removing the context here is important. Read all of the above responses everyone is tearing down an idea. Not a single one is offering a clear alternative or offering his own world view just attack and discredit over and over again. Doesn't even try to paint people as scum, just undermining arguments. You can go back and look at context if you need to, but there was space to provide your own opinions in the quotes rather than just painting them in a negative light. I think the final response with the 1, 2, 3 bullet points is where it's most obvious.
Terry, can you explain why you're worried about mislynching AG?
The same reasons they mis-lynched them in the past?
This raises huge red flags for me. Roger doesn't know their history to the best of my knowledge and this is the first bit of insight he offers. Feels buddyish to me.
Shinichi, do you think Mindreaver is scum? If so, why?
If you think someone else is scum, please move your vote over to them and explain why you think they're mafia.
If you don't want to move your vote, please explain why.
I'll start off by saying i barely move my vote,unless it's to pursue a very strong scum read.
For now tho Unvote
I would say i am neutral on him still I can't really get a good read on him yet, if anything all my reads on players are very lacking cause not used to playing with any of you except the 4 I know.
How about trying to get a pinpoint read on the four you know then? Or are you afraid we'll use our meta to fool you?
Ngl I'm not a fan of narrowing down suspects like this. I think this is a scummy thing to do - it directs attention away from the person who makes the list and the people not in the list and gets the people in the list to be against each other. I've seen this before, although much later in the game. You can analyze interactions to theorize alignment, but listing? If Mindreaver is a townie, then this might just end up giving scum a free pass. If they're scum, then this list is actually quite manipulative. And I think it's working.
I was under a similar impression when I first read the post despite agreeing with it. Though they seemed to not really do anything with it. Just set it out there.
I don't know what to make of this response to RE in general, but it gives me very strong unaligned feelings between Mind and Roger.
I'm sorry, this is Silence of the Lambs. FBI and Serial Killer Cannibal. I know from my own name, that the good and bad guy names are all mixed up (I'm a bad guy, but I'm town if anyone cares). So I know we can't trust flavor. But having a silence of the lambs mafia without a serial killer... is like having Star Wars mafia without Jedi. But my gut said there was no way you can have a neutral serial killer in a 12 man game. So I wanted to see what other people thought.
The interesting part of this for me, is that you are coming after me complaining about content without adding any. Of course, my vote on Vaimes certainly added conversation, as did my criticism of QH. Both were attempts that remedying the situation. I've been added thoughts this whole time, and following up, so I think this argument is an empty one. I'm a little surprised you didn't say the same things regarding Terry, AG, or QH. Also, I've got plenty of opinions
So you have a specific character name attached to your role? Interesting. That is something to make note of. While I can understand your reasons for asking about it, focusing on the SK can be a tactic to shift suspicion and increase doubt within the town. With more enemies there are less allies and one has to be more careful with who they trust. That was my concern along with reminding you that flavor does not play a significant role in this game.
Do not misunderstand me, I have no room to complain of lack of content. I was more so drawing attention to your lack of commitment to your stance. You really didn't seem like someone aggravated by the lack of content and who was willing to change it in order to help town forward. It was simply a small grievance you had for one reason or another. Also consider the question was made at the time of reading it. I won't deny you've added to the discussions so far, but I'll need to further judge those posts again as my memory of last night is hazy.
The bolded jumped out to me as super gross. Super super gross. I've been burned by flavor recently but that post is a huge red flag in my eyes.
I don't quite understand what you mean here. I'm saying that Vaimes and Grape had positioned themselves rather well, as is evidenced with Shadow's posts (where they align "organically") and AG's entry post (where we says he townreads both Vaimes and Grape). I think they were considered, at the time, to be the most townie posters, specifically by going after Shin. The test here, was to see if Vaimes and Grape would both act in concert when confronted. Grape seemed thoughtful, and Vaimes seemed defensive. I would have expected Grape to have defended his buddy in that situation.
Strange. This has nothing to do with the post that I quoted. Mind you I can understand you forgetting or not recognizing it from the portion I quoted alone. But the 0 to 100 comment was specifically aimed at Shinichi and no one else. He even answers it here. #114.
Not exactly sure. So far my notes are that he might be scummy for exactly the reasons you've noted. Basically not taking that "next step" that people who haven't solved the game might take. But that doesn't help me much right now, since he's never played here before, I've never played with him, and I have no idea what his skill level is.
So @Shinichi: What's your history? Are you a rockstar?
I mean, that's what struck me about you. Not that you picked up on that stuff, but how quickly you went from 0 to 100. I'm gonna go read the rest of your responses, because i just glossed over it quickly earlier. I was more interested to see how you and Grapefruit would respond, specifically if I could see if you were scum that were pleased how you'd positioned yourselves.
I'll comment on Kpaca as well. Seems like he just playing a "I'm drop one-liners" game for now. But I don't see him having much of an agenda. Like, I just don't see him steering the convo any particular place or making anyone in particular looks suspect. I'll feel better when he stops with the games, and has content. But I don't see a smoking gun either.
Care to answer it again? I do not see how Vaimes and Grape relate to a post directed at Shinichi and discussing your view on him.
For the record these two interactions are fine. Somewhere between neutral and town.
1) I do think that if Grape and Vaimes were scum together, then the plan was to mislynch shin, or at least be seen to go after a somewhat scummy target early and build towncred. I think in that scenario, the response to "Vaimes is scum" is Vaimes to say "no I'm not" and Grape to say "I don't think so, he's so town". This isn't something I'm married to. Grape could conceivably be a much better player than I am (spoiler, he is), but that's just WIFOM. I'm going to trust, for now, that they aren't aligned. That doesn't clear Vaimes, but it does make me feel a lot better about my Grape read.
2) I probably should have been clearer. I don't think WG and Kpaca are a team. I think they are acting in a similar way, and this scenario is more of a lone-scum-in-my-list-of-six scenario. Because if Vaimes/Grape/Shin are all town, I have to look at those who are keeping up post count without doing anything. QH and kpaca do fit that pattern, but with no agenda I can see. That's what this is all about.
3) So the world here is that Vaimes and Grape are town, and have genuinely caught Shin. In that case, I think QH's interaction is questionable, and I'd put him and shin as aligned. That's what I was trying to get out, but didn't articulate well.
1)I see. That's a better explanation than simply a Grape reaction to Vaimes being pressured means the two of them aren't a team.
2)A bit. You highlighted two players in each scenario and started with a team so my mind came to the conclusion that's what you were going for. You also end with a team scenario so it pushes that you're looking for a team more instead of lone mafia.
3)I see. I will have to look further at their interactions under these assumptions. Though currently not getting a town opinion/vibe from Vaimes.
This last quote is super light. Point two goes out of his way to discredit Mind just a little bit and still really refuses to give his own take on the matter. In short my vote is serious.
@Roger Hi! Can you please give me reads on any three players? Just your leaning and a small case please. Thanks
When someone called you out on it, you said "every read is soft at this stage." You neither defended it more elaborated on it.
well how do you know it's a flimsy soft read if I didn't explain why is my point.
Okay, so do you have an explanation or not?
My personal judgement is that it's flimsy because I see very little town motivation in his opening non-RVS posts.
I can feel the hate u have for me, or maybe thats just the urge of you wanting me to be scum really badly not sure which yet. Also how can you judge the town motivation outise of 1 of the first posts of the game.
I kind of don't think this is a scum post. For a lot of reasons but mostly because I don't think scum!Nichi would keep bringing the focus back on his behavior as opposed to letting the debate be about Kpaca's reasoning.
Vaimes who Shinichi town reads is scum reading Kpaca for his town read on Shinichi which he thinks was unjustified and hasn't been supported. Shinichi in his eagerness to be town read defends Kpaca's unsupported read and provides nontextual reasons. Gets scum reads for it and the game moves on. When it came back up it was really independent of opinions on Shinichi and no one was calling him scum but he still goes out of his way to defend himself. Just doesn't seem like a scum play to me, more like nervous town.
1. AtheistGod (Neutral)-Not really enough to go by to figure out any sort of motive/Alignment
2. Grapefruit21 (Town)- Just from his interactions with vaimes and me I believe he is town atleast from the first 4 pages, time may change that.
3. kpaca (Town) - Like I said in a recent post he's more neutral/town lean than anything, his town read on me doesnt feel as sloppy as others make it out to be, honestly he's prob just noticecd something that others haven't.
4. Mindreaver (Neutral)- You come off as neutral for me for the same reason as QH but i don't know you as a player I just can't get a read off of you at all.
5. Quickhoodies (Neutral)-With his big posts and knowledge of the kind of player he is I honestly can't get anything from his posts.
6. RE1031(Scum Lean)- Your leaning way to onto just for my particular liking, I feel as though scum would normally just to pocket those who they are friends with and tho we aren't voting together it seems like you really like talking about me my DC buddy.
7. Roger Sherman(Neutral)-Not really enough to go by to figure out any sort of motive/Alignment
8. shadowlancerx (Scum Lean)-You seemed to be white knighting me alot which i found weird and i only noticed now after i back read, also you focused alot of your early posts on Kpaca, seem's like you were eager to jump on a person you could put alot of eyes on.
10. TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (Town)- This prob very biased but his entrance alone screams town motivated and a town player
11. Vaimes (Town/Scum)- Our interaction states 1 thing either I'm scum or your scum, but I don't think either is true your reaction towards me states that your town. Only reason i put the scum part is because other feel as though that is what makes you a scumlean.
12. Wheat_Grinder (town)- I believe you are hands down town just from your interactions with the other players.
After tomorrow ill prob reread all of vaimes post so i can get a proper read on him, same goes for the others i tagged as scum or scum lean.
Let me show you how to do a list:
TOWN
1. TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (Town)- DUH
2. Mindreaver (Prob Town)- Flavor claim was solid and matched with mine. Scum never claims bad guy flavor in this situation
3. Wheat_Grinder (Lean Town)- Posts seem solvey, just suspicious enough, not defensive. Not sure I love his town read on me or the fact that AG spent his last two posts proclaiming WG's towniniess. I mean, I love to be obv town, but I seem like I got some pretty easy town red for my entrance from several people, WG included.
4. Quickhoodies (Lean Town)- Has some big meaty posts, but seems a bit absent lately. I know this game is going slow, but I expect more from QH before much longer.
5. Grapefruit21 (Null/Town)- I need to read more of this guy. I get a town vibe from his posts. They seem pretty explorative, but I'm going to watch him a bit longer to get a better read.
6. Vaimes (Null)- Vaimes play has seemed decent, but for some reason I'm getting the shivers about him. Maybe I'm scared of of his scum game, hence why he takes a null slot.
7. AtheistGod (Null/Scum)- If AG doesn't step up his posting soon, he's moving down this list pretty fast. All his posts are handing out town cred
8. RE1031(Scum Lean)- The jump on Kpaca was a bit opportunistic, so if Kpaca isn't scum, I'd bet RE1031 is. I don't like doing things like dichotomies but it's my though right now. Also seems surprised about Mindreader's flavor claim and I feel like might have made a PR Hunting note in #243.
9. shadowlancerx (Scum Lean)-The quick angle shot defense of Roger seemed a bit protective of someone I think is scum. I re-read Shadow's ISO and a lot of it seems like it's just yelling from the sidelines instead of on the game field. This is a tone thing and Shadow was a bit defensive when Shinichi leaned scum on him.
10. Shinichi (Prob Scum)- This one is my lightest scum read, but the list I'm quoting seemed real fence sitty, with not a ton of meat. Something felt off with her interaction with Kpaca which seems a bit fabricated. A lot of TBF, which kind of red flags me a bit. Claims a lot of people are reading her town.
11. kpaca (Prob Scum) - RVS stuff seemed off/aggressive for RVS, no reasoning or logic behind his votes and his posts, defensive
12. Roger Sherman(Prob Scum)-No motivation, posts seem long but hollow. Low posting SCUM
Ok, now that's done, let's party:
VOTE: Roger
Idk if this is a challenge but either way I like this read list alot better than mine. Though not a fan that you put your own name in the list.
I guess i'll just put my 2 cents here
2.How can you be so sure of that situation tho?
4.Why is he a town lean though?
6.I feel like vaimes shouldnt be a null at all with the amount of content he has, espically with the interaction between me and him.
9.I felt like his reaction to my read on him was weird too, but feel like he just thought my reads were bad.
10. What makes u think they were fabricated?
12.I see motivation i just cant ditinguish the alignment of that motivation.
In my continuing defense of Shinichi I like a lot of this post. Despite a few red flags (continuing slight defense of Kpaca) there are some pertinent questions in there. And asks some of the questions I have with wrt Terry's list.
That said one key question needs to be asked: what motivation are you seeing in Roger's posts?
And Shinichi to be clear I think your reads were bad too (but like you admitting you agree they were bad), but I don't think you're necessarily scum for it anymore.
I'll update myself fully today.
Been busy + been slacking off from this game when not busy. Sorry about this, really.
I'll also make a scumread list if you want, I've skimmed and seen some people do it.
I can feel the hate u have for me, or maybe thats just the urge of you wanting me to be scum really badly not sure which yet. Also how can you judge the town motivation outise of 1 of the first posts of the game.
I don't hate you, dude. I just think you're mafia and should die. It's nothing personal.
I have gone over why I disliked your first non-RVS post many times already. Asking me the same question over and over again will not change my answer. And, again, I'm talking to kpaca here, not you.
If you're town, your win condition is to kill all the mafia, and you think I'm town, so. Go find mafia.
---
Shinichi doesn't strike me at all as a nervous player.
@Vaimes nervous is a charged word. Very self conscious would be more descriptive. Which is often a scum trait, but I don't think that his self consciousness is because he's scum here. I don't think he'd focused on that one interaction as scum. Which is Wifom but I think (despite my earlier statements to the contrary) have the right read on him here.
On a different note these wagons are a in an odd spot. More than one person voting with someone they've expressed suspicion of. Just something to keep an eye on.
Also Cantrip flavor is appropriately creepy. *thumbs up*
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kpaca says he doesn't have a strong read on anyone, everybody is okay with it
vaimes says he doesn't have a strong read on anyone, everybody is okay with it
shinichi says he doesn't have a strong read on anyone NOW EVERYONE IS PISSED
Can someone explain to me exactly what the difference is?
And Mindreaver I do not believe for a second I'm better than you. I'm like 1-9 in my career and the one I replaced out early and got my replacement vigged... Plus I was one of the biggest voices trying to save you in Mistborn >_>
Still not liking Roger Sherman. That walling back and forth with Mind just doesn't read town on a first read.
Vote: RogerSherman
T
Quotes later today.
Uh.
I don't think any of the recent posts have interested me but I will definitely need to reread.
But I'll let the issue stand and say the post speaks for itself and I don't see it aimed at Vaimes. And I'm not quite sure why you insist that it does.
literally every post that mentions shinichi's list?
Let me show you how to do a list:
TOWN
1. TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (Town)- DUH
2. Mindreaver (Prob Town)- Flavor claim was solid and matched with mine. Scum never claims bad guy flavor in this situation
3. Wheat_Grinder (Lean Town)- Posts seem solvey, just suspicious enough, not defensive. Not sure I love his town read on me or the fact that AG spent his last two posts proclaiming WG's towniniess. I mean, I love to be obv town, but I seem like I got some pretty easy town red for my entrance from several people, WG included.
4. Quickhoodies (Lean Town)- Has some big meaty posts, but seems a bit absent lately. I know this game is going slow, but I expect more from QH before much longer.
5. Grapefruit21 (Null/Town)- I need to read more of this guy. I get a town vibe from his posts. They seem pretty explorative, but I'm going to watch him a bit longer to get a better read.
6. Vaimes (Null)- Vaimes play has seemed decent, but for some reason I'm getting the shivers about him. Maybe I'm scared of of his scum game, hence why he takes a null slot.
7. AtheistGod (Null/Scum)- If AG doesn't step up his posting soon, he's moving down this list pretty fast. All his posts are handing out town cred
8. RE1031(Scum Lean)- The jump on Kpaca was a bit opportunistic, so if Kpaca isn't scum, I'd bet RE1031 is. I don't like doing things like dichotomies but it's my though right now. Also seems surprised about Mindreader's flavor claim and I feel like might have made a PR Hunting note in #243.
9. shadowlancerx (Scum Lean)-The quick angle shot defense of Roger seemed a bit protective of someone I think is scum. I re-read Shadow's ISO and a lot of it seems like it's just yelling from the sidelines instead of on the game field. This is a tone thing and Shadow was a bit defensive when Shinichi leaned scum on him.
10. Shinichi (Prob Scum)- This one is my lightest scum read, but the list I'm quoting seemed real fence sitty, with not a ton of meat. Something felt off with her interaction with Kpaca which seems a bit fabricated. A lot of TBF, which kind of red flags me a bit. Claims a lot of people are reading her town.
11. kpaca (Prob Scum) - RVS stuff seemed off/aggressive for RVS, no reasoning or logic behind his votes and his posts, defensive
12. Roger Sherman(Prob Scum)-No motivation, posts seem long but hollow. Low posting
SCUM
Ok, now that's done, let's party:
VOTE: Roger
So... Let me get this straight. What happened between you unvoting me and now?
Also explain why I would make a PR "hunting" note in the thread everybody sees?
You simultaneously have kpaca under "prob scum," which is a stronger scum read than me, and me as scum because of my read of kpaca, which I'll say is basically the same as yours. Yet somehow my jump on kpaca is opportunistic and your read isn't? Your own logic can be applied against you.
Also, how does your list work again? Your reads on WG and QH seem like they shouldn't be town reads.
Whats wrong with narrowing down subjects tho and who says mind reaver isn't in that list for me too. Also if he put himself in that list i would have assumed he was scum right away.
I do know you, but don't forget I can care less about past games or any interaction outside of this game itself. So your implying hes jester do to just having a trolly attitude? I feel like if terry was scum i see no reason for him to unvote that easily. Vaines is def one of my strongest town reads but like I said it seems people dont like his early reactions towwards me. I can't really connect anyone or understand anyone at this point lol I am really bad at that early game.
Also you know grapefruit do u not lol?
I can feel the hate u have for me, or maybe thats just the urge of you wanting me to be scum really badly not sure which yet. Also how can you judge the town motivation outise of 1 of the first posts of the game.
Is this really a fair assessment to make? I feel like this statement will get pocketed very easily.
Meta means nothing to me lol, ive learned from the past you can play amazingly as town and still flip scum.
Also logically in a closed setup everyones guilty till proven innocent since people can claim and still be scum.
Your reading way to into my posts buddy lol
2 games to be exact
I'm not sure what he noticed, i was just trying to come up with a reason for his town read that's all.
How is it false, until this post it felt like u were defending me even if you blantly didnt point it out.
Yet another vote though how surprising, maybe i'm just a cursed player haha.
No one else feel weirded out be this post, it feels like reaver just pocketed RE10 super hard here.
ASOmeone asked me for reads so those are my reads right now, I didn't find a point to it either but i thought it would helppeople understand my thought process.
Idk if this is a challenge but either way I like this read list alot better than mine. Though not a fan that you put your own name in the list.
I guess i'll just put my 2 cents here
2.How can you be so sure of that situation tho?
4.Why is he a town lean though?
6.I feel like vaimes shouldnt be a null at all with the amount of content he has, espically with the interaction between me and him.
9.I felt like his reaction to my read on him was weird too, but feel like he just thought my reads were bad.
10. What makes u think they were fabricated?
12.I see motivation i just cant ditinguish the alignment of that motivation.
Why does the answer matter tho?
Don't try to question it, this happens to me every game I play in I just accept it and move on. Pressure doesnt work on me at all, nor do votes lol.
Post 20
If we were buddies i would not make it that painfully obvious nice try to I do give you some townie points for this though very little.
I don't think so the interactions that people were having with roger were already leading up to him being voted, it was clear from most if not all of those interactions that some thought he was scumming. So having similar reads shouldn't be odd the opposite would be at this point.
So read those, it's my first position on the Vaimes/Shin stuff.
Then I sorta get what you're talking about... with 95:
I bolded the only part that was talking to Shinichi. The rest was to vaimes, and then my comments on kpaca.
I'm at a rough spot because that's how I feel about half the game right now. I don't think wagoning any of: Kpaca, wheat, AG, or Shinichi is going to give me anything. And giving free passes to people is a horrible policy in general and leads to awful end games with nothing to analyze, but I also want today to be productive.
I think I kind of want to form a wagon on Kpaca despite my earlier reservations. But I am going to do my due diligence on Roger first.
Did i quote the wrong post because im pretty sure it does, you stood up for me when i said he was being aggresive.
I like coming to the same conclusion on Roger, but I don't like your stated reasoning.
Can you expand on RE, QH, Roger, and Shadow for me please.
CHainsawing in for a second as a third party I saw that as providing a meta dump and not standing up for you. Explaining that Kpaca is always like that and it's not really about you in that sense.
Wasn't Vaimes very strongly not okay with Kpaca having a soft read and his issue with Shinichi stemming from Shinichi saying that read was legit and okay?
And for the record I'm not okay with Kpaca stating he doesn't have a strong read. I'm okay with Vaimes saying it because his despite that hedging provided textual reasons and took a stance and defended it. And didn't try to use "it wasn't a strong read" as an excuse to not stand behind it.
That is the main difference to me.
As for Shinichi it's more that his reads are all over the place and I feel like I'm reading a different game. Plus his sticking to his guns and attempting to defend the Kpaca town read of himself and his defense of the of his acceptance of that read.
That's the thing, Terry hasn't changed his mind about me and my scumminess, so I don't get why he unvoted me. It's not like it's because he found a better lead at the time. I don't get what he was hoping to accomplish by unvoting just from a single "good" post from me.
Yeah I know Grapefruit, but it's been a couple months since I played with him and I am currently getting weird vibes from him.
Not this post, the one where he claims his flavor is bad but his role is good. I don't see scum doing that.
So I went through and snipped out all the quotes because I think removing the context here is important. Read all of the above responses everyone is tearing down an idea. Not a single one is offering a clear alternative or offering his own world view just attack and discredit over and over again. Doesn't even try to paint people as scum, just undermining arguments. You can go back and look at context if you need to, but there was space to provide your own opinions in the quotes rather than just painting them in a negative light. I think the final response with the 1, 2, 3 bullet points is where it's most obvious.
This raises huge red flags for me. Roger doesn't know their history to the best of my knowledge and this is the first bit of insight he offers. Feels buddyish to me.
I don't know what to make of this response to RE in general, but it gives me very strong unaligned feelings between Mind and Roger.
The bolded jumped out to me as super gross. Super super gross. I've been burned by flavor recently but that post is a huge red flag in my eyes.
For the record these two interactions are fine. Somewhere between neutral and town.
This last quote is super light. Point two goes out of his way to discredit Mind just a little bit and still really refuses to give his own take on the matter. In short my vote is serious.
@Roger Hi! Can you please give me reads on any three players? Just your leaning and a small case please. Thanks
I kind of don't think this is a scum post. For a lot of reasons but mostly because I don't think scum!Nichi would keep bringing the focus back on his behavior as opposed to letting the debate be about Kpaca's reasoning.
Vaimes who Shinichi town reads is scum reading Kpaca for his town read on Shinichi which he thinks was unjustified and hasn't been supported. Shinichi in his eagerness to be town read defends Kpaca's unsupported read and provides nontextual reasons. Gets scum reads for it and the game moves on. When it came back up it was really independent of opinions on Shinichi and no one was calling him scum but he still goes out of his way to defend himself. Just doesn't seem like a scum play to me, more like nervous town.
In my continuing defense of Shinichi I like a lot of this post. Despite a few red flags (continuing slight defense of Kpaca) there are some pertinent questions in there. And asks some of the questions I have with wrt Terry's list.
That said one key question needs to be asked: what motivation are you seeing in Roger's posts?
And Shinichi to be clear I think your reads were bad too (but like you admitting you agree they were bad), but I don't think you're necessarily scum for it anymore.
Been busy + been slacking off from this game when not busy. Sorry about this, really.
I'll also make a scumread list if you want, I've skimmed and seen some people do it.
I have gone over why I disliked your first non-RVS post many times already. Asking me the same question over and over again will not change my answer. And, again, I'm talking to kpaca here, not you.
If you're town, your win condition is to kill all the mafia, and you think I'm town, so. Go find mafia.
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Shinichi doesn't strike me at all as a nervous player.
Like, what/whose posts jumped out at you?
Father's gone a-hunting,
Gone to get a rabbit skin
To wrap the baby's ashes in.
Votecount 1.2
Mindreaver (1): Quickhoodies
Vaimes (2): Wheat_Grinder, kpaca
kpaca (2): AtheistGod, RE1031
Shinichi (2): Vaimes, shadowlancerx
AtheistGod (1): Mindreaver
Roger Sherman (2): Grapefruit21, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
Not Voting: Roger Sherman, Shinichi
Please inform me of any errors.
Deadline is at 0900 hours MDT on Friday June 29th.
On a different note these wagons are a in an odd spot. More than one person voting with someone they've expressed suspicion of. Just something to keep an eye on.
Also Cantrip flavor is appropriately creepy. *thumbs up*