Good tone + you got three votes. And everyone and their grandma knows how easy you are to push as mislynch fodder.
Are you suggesting that there are scum pushing Bur as a mislynch right now? If that’s so, who on his train is scum and why?
I am not. Unless the whole wolf team has no understanding of Bur, I would venture a guess that there are three townies on him. It is still early mind you, but the way it is going, I think that Bur is likely more town. He is also psuedo volume town telling, but that will come later.
I'm feeling slightly town on Bur, on tone. I don't agree with the train reasoning. Could all be town- then it wouldn't make a difference if Bur was scum or town since the voters wouldn't know.
GJ's easy town reads feel suspicious. Shadow's hesitation to agree with a town read on me is more practical. GJ's town read on Bur seems faulty as well as I've stated above. Interested to see a reply to Gruffin's question regarding the voters.
I'm not feeling good about Rhand misinterpreting me but it may not have been scum motive and he hasn't even replied so I'll let it be.
I could go either way with Shadow, but so far I can understand his thought processes.
Because this is the 2nd-3rd person who brought up my town reads, Mtgsalvation is jokably slow compared to basically every other site I have played on. ~48 hours in, why is it that hard to believe I have two people as town? It's early day 1, lots of things can change, but the only reason I don't have more is it feels like we are playing with half the deck.
You’re quick to clear people. It’s page one, and you’re writing this without doubts.
That's a bold statement. I think they are town. Why do I need to be doubtful at this current stage of the game? My opinion might change, but they are the towniest people posting right now, so I feel safe to call them town.
What’s the purpose of this? Are you planning to launch a cyan attack later or something?
Maybe. I originally read that statement as a TMI tell from Cyan, basically saying he knew Hunt was town from the way he phrased it. Apart from my hate of gotcha tells, and the fact that rereading it again, I wasn't as sure, I basically wanted to bookmark that statement if he slipped again. Why did you feel the need to call it out?
“Our” banter was awful? You think you were awful as well?
And how does not reacting to 3 RVS votes in a 16-player game make someone scum?
unvote vote: Gentleman Johnny
Not impressed. and so far, the only time you vote me when I am town is when you are a wolf. You were also already voting me from RVS. I suggest you start giving over reads, rather than throwing mud everywhere.
Have I really never voted you in a game where we're both town? That's just weird lol.
Must mean you're scum then
Can you explain your rationale better how 3 people voting for Bur makes him town while those 3 people are also likely town? I don't get that.
As someone who as wolfed with Bur as town, he is a giant red flag, and wolves won't push him because he is pretty hard lhf. I also don't know enough about the other players voting Bur, where I thought his tone was more town.
You can't tell me you can't recall that you push me everytime you roll wolf when I am town.
I know I've gotten scum!you lynched and that I have pushed town!you when i was scum. What I can't recall is that I supposedly never vote you when we're both town. That's just weird.
We are talking about RVS votes here. Do you really think anyone cares how many votes someone has before RVS voting in a 16-player game? And if the player they're RVS'ing is lhf or not?
As someone who as wolfed with Bur as town, he is a giant red flag, and wolves won't push him because he is pretty hard lhf. I also don't know enough about the other players voting Bur, where I thought his tone was more town.
You can't tell me you can't recall that you push me everytime you roll wolf when I am town.
does he do it this early, or usually later in the game, or does it vary to the point that it doesn't matter, just the principle does?
[quote from="Grapefruit21 »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/771882-mistborn-mafia-day-1-fall-of-the-final-empire?comment=8"]Vote Bur definitely scum this time! Just look at that egging on.
Hey, I have a really nice and comfy pocket. I know you want to go there, it's really great. It's the greatest. Greatest pocket on the earth, you'll totally love it, okay?
...no?
I always wonder about posts like these? Truth in plain sight or a reaction test? I lean more toward the latter for now but knowing how you pocketed us in fairy tail mafia there is truth in this statement.
Does a pocket attempt have to be scum motivated?
@Gruffin: Regarding Bur, it's much easier for a townie to correct a bad read than scum. Sure, I could drop him back to null, but I appreciate his approach. And sometimes you get so much more from townreading people than scum reading them.
to my understanding of what pocketing means in mafia it only has scum motive though now that I think about it certain TPR's may want to pocket town as well.
@Shadow Yeah, sure thing. Let's chat about Logic then. What's your take on his observations regarding you?
@Logic I'd like to talk to you as well as I'm not seeing what you're seeing in Hunt/Shadow's interactions. Could you pull up the moments where you felt they were trying to figure each other out?
So I mixed up two players. I mistook GJ for Hunt it was actually GJ and Shadow's interactions on Page 2 which felt like trying to figure each other out. Hunt and Shadow's early interactions (22-41) do not feel like an aligned pair or scum theatre though.
#22 - Hunt's entrance getting Shadow's attention ad well add everyone else)
#26 - Shadow asking Hunt if he gets to catch him this time around.
#37 - Hunt saying he might actually be looking forward to working with Shadow for once
#41 - Shadow relaxing they've never been aligned.
This just didn't feel like S/S they aren't really pushing on one another but it feels pretty natural and not forced.
@Shadow Yeah, sure thing. Let's chat about Logic then. What's your take on his observations regarding you?
You mean regarding me and hunt? I'm not sure; like, I'll take the town read cause it makes my life easier, but it means jack all alignment wise. Calling a t/t interaction is something that comes from both alignments, for several different reasons.
@Logic: Have you by chance read any other games on this site? There's a few examples of games where either Hunt or I was scum, and I'm curious if you've seen any of that.
@Grapefruit: What don't you like about your banter with bur? I liked the cheekiness of it, do you have some RVS history that makes this one stand out? What bothered you about his 81 specifically?
As someone who as wolfed with Bur as town, he is a giant red flag, and wolves won't push him because he is pretty hard lhf. I also don't know enough about the other players voting Bur, where I thought his tone was more town.
You can't tell me you can't recall that you push me everytime you roll wolf when I am town.
does he do it this early, or usually later in the game, or does it vary to the point that it doesn't matter, just the principle does?
</blockquote>
Usually earlier. In predator, he started after I voted him day 1 after a "preemptive OMGUS". In XKCD, it was early as well, and then he switched to Iso.
I am holding out for now though. Rhand at least feels like he is trying to game solve, even though he is taking the path of least resistance right now.
God damn it, I hate it when I agree with GJ. I don't like a lot of Shadow's reasons for anything (I *feel* this way, I like his *tone*), it might just be early, but these are all really unqualified answers. I'm also coupling that with most/all of his posts are townclearing people. So bad reasons + all townclears = "made up".
What exactly would a "qualified answer look like? Using tone and feeling that early in a game is probably the most solid reasoning I can have, there's just not enough posts for any patterns to have formed to the point that I'll lean on them. Also, why do you hate when you agree with GJ? He's a good player, what about your thoughts aligning upsets you?
Quote from Mind »
That said, I hate shadow's interactions with Bur. The "Why am I town?" stuff reaks of coaching. Like "shadow stop, you don't have reasons". So that's something to look back on if we see either flip.
What was so different between Bur/me and Bur/GJ that you come away with completely different takes on us.
to my understanding of what pocketing means in mafia it only has scum motive though now that I think about it certain TPR's may want to pocket town as well.
I've seen pocketing come from both town and scum directed at both town and scum.
@Shadow Yeah, sure thing. Let's chat about Logic then. What's your take on his observations regarding you?
@Logic I'd like to talk to you as well as I'm not seeing what you're seeing in Hunt/Shadow's interactions. Could you pull up the moments where you felt they were trying to figure each other out?
So I mixed up two players. I mistook GJ for Hunt it was actually GJ and Shadow's interactions on Page 2 which felt like trying to figure each other out. Hunt and Shadow's early interactions (22-41) do not feel like an aligned pair or scum theatre though.
#22 - Hunt's entrance getting Shadow's attention ad well add everyone else)
#26 - Shadow asking Hunt if he gets to catch him this time around.
#37 - Hunt saying he might actually be looking forward to working with Shadow for once
#41 - Shadow relaxing they've never been aligned.
This just didn't feel like S/S they aren't really pushing on one another but it feels pretty natural and not forced.
I do not like this at all. "I mixed up some people, but it just so happens that the person I named first fits too."
Either you meant what you said and you stand by it, or you justify what you actually meant. You can't have it both ways. You're saying "oh, I totally meant something else, but here's justification for what I said in the first place."
Unvote, Vote Logic
____________________________________________
@Hunt: You're quotes are broken. Also, why are you awarding scum points but not following with a vote?
"Human kind can not gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain something of equal value must be lost. That is Alchemy's first law of equivalent exchange." ~Alphonse Elric
God damn it, I hate it when I agree with GJ. I don't like a lot of Shadow's reasons for anything (I *feel* this way, I like his *tone*), it might just be early, but these are all really unqualified answers. I'm also coupling that with most/all of his posts are townclearing people. So bad reasons + all townclears = "made up".
What exactly would a "qualified answer look like? Using tone and feeling that early in a game is probably the most solid reasoning I can have, there's just not enough posts for any patterns to have formed to the point that I'll lean on them. Also, why do you hate when you agree with GJ? He's a good player, what about your thoughts aligning upsets you?
Quote from Mind »
That said, I hate shadow's interactions with Bur. The "Why am I town?" stuff reaks of coaching. Like "shadow stop, you don't have reasons". So that's something to look back on if we see either flip.
What was so different between Bur/me and Bur/GJ that you come away with completely different takes on us.
to my understanding of what pocketing means in mafia it only has scum motive though now that I think about it certain TPR's may want to pocket town as well.
I've seen pocketing come from both town and scum directed at both town and scum.
@Shadow Yeah, sure thing. Let's chat about Logic then. What's your take on his observations regarding you?
@Logic I'd like to talk to you as well as I'm not seeing what you're seeing in Hunt/Shadow's interactions. Could you pull up the moments where you felt they were trying to figure each other out?
So I mixed up two players. I mistook GJ for Hunt it was actually GJ and Shadow's interactions on Page 2 which felt like trying to figure each other out. Hunt and Shadow's early interactions (22-41) do not feel like an aligned pair or scum theatre though.
#22 - Hunt's entrance getting Shadow's attention ad well add everyone else)
#26 - Shadow asking Hunt if he gets to catch him this time around.
#37 - Hunt saying he might actually be looking forward to working with Shadow for once
#41 - Shadow relaxing they've never been aligned.
This just didn't feel like S/S they aren't really pushing on one another but it feels pretty natural and not forced.
I do not like this at all. "I mixed up some people, but it just so happens that the person I named first fits too."
Either you meant what you said and you stand by it, or you justify what you actually meant. You can't have it both ways. You're saying "oh, I totally meant something else, but here's justification for what I said in the first place."
Unvote, Vote Logic
____________________________________________
@Hunt: You're quotes are broken. Also, why are you awarding scum points but not following with a vote?
How does town pocketing town work? I've never heard it thought about that.
To clarify, I'm new to this forum and on my phone with the longer posts it's hard to see the thread clearly. Your conversation with Hunt ended in #41 but I thought it continued in to page 2 (that was actually you and GJ though). Do party about feeling each other out was you and GJ not you and Hunt. When I realized my mistake I wanted to correct said mistake and also give my take on you and Hunt correctly since you were the players I named.
God damn it, I hate it when I agree with GJ. I don't like a lot of Shadow's reasons for anything (I *feel* this way, I like his *tone*), it might just be early, but these are all really unqualified answers. I'm also coupling that with most/all of his posts are townclearing people. So bad reasons + all townclears = "made up".
What exactly would a "qualified answer look like? Using tone and feeling that early in a game is probably the most solid reasoning I can have, there's just not enough posts for any patterns to have formed to the point that I'll lean on them. Also, why do you hate when you agree with GJ? He's a good player, what about your thoughts aligning upsets you?
I think I got autocorrected there. I'm trying to say your reasoning is all based on things that are hard to QUANTIFY. So you haven't said "this sentence of this post" bothers me. Or "I like when Kit said T/T because of XXXXX". Basically statements that let me go back and re-read and see what you are seeing, are what I'm looking for. instead you're saying "Bur feels YYYYYYY" or "Bur's Tone is ZZZZZZZ". Which I can understand, being early. I just don't like how you're using those to proclaim town!bur. Like, I would expect more probing of your suspects, OR maybe some verification on your part. Instead I just see "Bur is town, I like his tone". Which leaves me with "Does shadow think this?" or "is that a fake read?" And the answer is that I think it's fake, but it's possible that this is just how shadow gets reactions early on.
Also, I'll toss this out because it's been mentioned twice now. That GJ thing was a throw away line. In every game I've played with him, I've seen things differently. I am *slightly* nervous that we seem to be in agreement. It won't last
That said, I hate shadow's interactions with Bur. The "Why am I town?" stuff reaks of coaching. Like "shadow stop, you don't have reasons". So that's something to look back on if we see either flip.
What was so different between Bur/me and Bur/GJ that you come away with completely different takes on us.
I'll reread. I don't remember why I have you as potentially aligned in my notes as opposed to GJ/Bur
So many new faces. @Gruff/@grape, I'm definitely confusing the two of you already. Do you both play together often? How many time have you played with Kit/Bur? Enough to be able to meta read them this early?
Grape’s pretty much answered this for me, but I’ve played 6 games with Kit/Logic (all town games of theirs), 3 with Grape (all town), and 2 with Bur (1 town, 1 scum). I’m most comfortable with using meta on Kit/Logic because I’ve played with them most. The opposite is true for Bur, partially because of how little I paid attention to him in both games.
Quick question regarding your coaching point: Why would scum be coaching each other in-thread when they have the much safer option of using their secret chat?
Why do you not like Shadow's townclears, but you're ok when GJ does it?
^ Was just about to ask this. In fact, I find GJ’s townreads to have around the same substance as Shadow’s so it's curious that GJ isn't under the same level of scrutiny following the logic behind Mind's Shadow thoughts.
So I mixed up two players. I mistook GJ for Hunt it was actually GJ and Shadow's interactions on Page 2 which felt like trying to figure each other out. Hunt and Shadow's early interactions (22-41) do not feel like an aligned pair or scum theatre though.
#22 - Hunt's entrance getting Shadow's attention ad well add everyone else)
#26 - Shadow asking Hunt if he gets to catch him this time around.
#37 - Hunt saying he might actually be looking forward to working with Shadow for once
#41 - Shadow relaxing they've never been aligned.
This just didn't feel like S/S they aren't really pushing on one another but it feels pretty natural and not forced.
Thank you for explaining Hunt/Shadow to me. While I still don’t find their interactions to be particularly hard-hitting t/t, I can see where you are coming from with the natural thing. Could you tell me more about the Shadow/GJ pair since that was your original point? I’ve got some thoughts of my own that I would like to share with you, but I want to hear yours first.
Is there some kind of meta regarding Gentleman Johnny in relation to voting "no lynch"? And Shadow?
@ Hunt- were you trying to incite Shadow? Why? Why did you stop because of GJ?
@ Rhand- would you say not voting no lynch makes GJ more likely to be scum (however slightly) or was your vote purely random to you?
...GJ's icon has become animated and it's even creepier than before...
Vote: Huntzilla for voting no lynch during RVS. Don't you know no lynch is not really eligible during RVS?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Human kind can not gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain something of equal value must be lost. That is Alchemy's first law of equivalent exchange." ~Alphonse Elric
What do you think of Bur so far? You implicate him slightly, but seems more contingent on being paired with Shadow. Anything stand out apart from that one interaction?
He's null so far, other than that one Shadow thing. I'm fairly sure we haven't played together, so I'm not a great authority on his tone/meta.
If you're null on Bur why did you say in 95 that you're agreeing with Gentleman Johnny? You actually don't seem to be agreeing with him on very much at all.
But since I'm here: SJT, do you feel as if Huntzilla was voting No lynch intentionally or as a joke? About your other 2 posts:
1. Why did you unvote onto Kitbits so quickly? Do you feel there is something off about them?
2. Are you suspicious of Gruffin?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Human kind can not gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain something of equal value must be lost. That is Alchemy's first law of equivalent exchange." ~Alphonse Elric
Apparently, the next stage of my quest will take us up into the highlands of Terris. This is said to be a cold, unforgiving place--a land where the mountains themselves are made of ice.
Our normal attendants will not do for such a trip. We should probably hire some Terris packmen to carry our gear.
I do not like this at all. "I mixed up some people, but it just so happens that the person I named first fits too."
Either you meant what you said and you stand by it, or you justify what you actually meant. You can't have it both ways. You're saying "oh, I totally meant something else, but here's justification for what I said in the first place."
Unvote, Vote Logic
____________________________________________
@Hunt: You're quotes are broken. Also, why are you awarding scum points but not following with a vote?
By getting Bur to build a read on me, I'm gaining more insight into how he is thinking about this game, which in turn allows me to build my own read on him. (Getting to that in my next post)
Bur’s read on me is alright for a day 1 read. The “...but not giving town reads like free candy, which is a good sign.” is consistent with his previous questioning of those who did. He’s thrown out some questions in 68, but these were somewhat softball-y. Overall I need more out of him, but the stuff he has posted don’t read as scummy to me.
Bur’s read on me is alright for a day 1 read. The “...but not giving town reads like free candy, which is a good sign.” is consistent with his previous questioning of those who did. He’s thrown out some questions in 68, but these were somewhat softball-y. Overall I need more out of him, but the stuff he has posted don’t read as scummy to me.
Just so I'm clear on what you're saying: You see Bur as mostly null with a slight town lean correct? Because that is lot of words to say you don't have much of a read.
God damn it, I hate it when I agree with GJ. I don't like a lot of Shadow's reasons for anything (I *feel* this way, I like his *tone*), it might just be early, but these are all really unqualified answers. I'm also coupling that with most/all of his posts are townclearing people. So bad reasons + all townclears = "made up".
What exactly would a "qualified answer look like? Using tone and feeling that early in a game is probably the most solid reasoning I can have, there's just not enough posts for any patterns to have formed to the point that I'll lean on them. Also, why do you hate when you agree with GJ? He's a good player, what about your thoughts aligning upsets you?
Quote from Mind »
That said, I hate shadow's interactions with Bur. The "Why am I town?" stuff reaks of coaching. Like "shadow stop, you don't have reasons". So that's something to look back on if we see either flip.
What was so different between Bur/me and Bur/GJ that you come away with completely different takes on us.
to my understanding of what pocketing means in mafia it only has scum motive though now that I think about it certain TPR's may want to pocket town as well.
I've seen pocketing come from both town and scum directed at both town and scum.
@Shadow Yeah, sure thing. Let's chat about Logic then. What's your take on his observations regarding you?
@Logic I'd like to talk to you as well as I'm not seeing what you're seeing in Hunt/Shadow's interactions. Could you pull up the moments where you felt they were trying to figure each other out?
So I mixed up two players. I mistook GJ for Hunt it was actually GJ and Shadow's interactions on Page 2 which felt like trying to figure each other out. Hunt and Shadow's early interactions (22-41) do not feel like an aligned pair or scum theatre though.
#22 - Hunt's entrance getting Shadow's attention ad well add everyone else)
#26 - Shadow asking Hunt if he gets to catch him this time around.
#37 - Hunt saying he might actually be looking forward to working with Shadow for once
#41 - Shadow relaxing they've never been aligned.
This just didn't feel like S/S they aren't really pushing on one another but it feels pretty natural and not forced.
I do not like this at all. "I mixed up some people, but it just so happens that the person I named first fits too."
Either you meant what you said and you stand by it, or you justify what you actually meant. You can't have it both ways. You're saying "oh, I totally meant something else, but here's justification for what I said in the first place."
Unvote, Vote Logic
____________________________________________
@Hunt: You're quotes are broken. Also, why are you awarding scum points but not following with a vote?
I want more to vote my first serious vote of the game. Not much more, but a little.
So I mixed up two players. I mistook GJ for Hunt it was actually GJ and Shadow's interactions on Page 2 which felt like trying to figure each other out. Hunt and Shadow's early interactions (22-41) do not feel like an aligned pair or scum theatre though.
#22 - Hunt's entrance getting Shadow's attention ad well add everyone else)
#26 - Shadow asking Hunt if he gets to catch him this time around.
#37 - Hunt saying he might actually be looking forward to working with Shadow for once
#41 - Shadow relaxing they've never been aligned.
This just didn't feel like S/S they aren't really pushing on one another but it feels pretty natural and not forced.
Thank you for explaining Hunt/Shadow to me. While I still don’t find their interactions to be particularly hard-hitting t/t, I can see where you are coming from with the natural thing. Could you tell me more about the Shadow/GJ pair since that was your original point? I’ve got some thoughts of my own that I would like to share with you, but I want to hear yours first.
No Shadow and Hunt wasn't very hard hitting at all but as stated I done see S/S. It could be T/T or T/S but that will be come clearer later I am sure. #51 - Shadow agreeing with GJ's read on Bur but not Kit. #52 - GJ wants to know what else Shadow has to add? #53 - Says he thought Kit was over-explain and likes GJ for town for now. #55 - GJ says he isn't a huge fan of shadows right now. #57 - Shadow tells GJ that he isn't a fan of anyone town reading him early. Shadow says he feels he can read GJ well and to deal with it #58 - Asks Shadow if he is town reading him, doesn't get why Shadow agrees with Bur but not Kit as he felt Kit was the obvious of the two. #59 - Shadows responds to #58 by saying that GJ puts more stock into Tone Purity than Shadow does. #60 - GJ tells Shadow perhaps
Though the conversation started on how they felt about Kit and Bur, it quickly got into how they feel about one another. I like GJ's #52 as Shadow didn't add much just that he agreed with one and not than the other. This imo shows him trying to understand where Shadow is coming from trying to get more information . #53-#57 they get into explaining how they see one another. Nothing too concrete but I said this feels like an unaligned pair because it doesn't feel choreographed or premeditated. I feels pretty natural on both sides but there is potential for pocketing in regards to how they dealt with one another. Shadow for the seemingly easy town read on GJ without much reasoning to go along with it and GJ for being "paranoid" of Shadow's town read without asking for more information. T/T or T/S but I am not seeing S/S from this. What are your thoughts?
Weekend was busy playing Magic. Probably catching up tomorrow at this point, but I'll also likely spend most of my Mafia time finishing up another game until that's done.
But since I'm here: SJT, do you feel as if Huntzilla was voting No lynch intentionally or as a joke? About your other 2 posts:
1. Why did you unvote onto Kitbits so quickly? Do you feel there is something off about them?
2. Are you suspicious of Gruffin?
1. All part of me catching up and doing RVS stuff
2. Actually I am. To me, I find that someone caring about a player's read on themselves (Gruffin in this case) at this stage is a bit suspicious. I was kind of hoping he'd answer (#121) before I explained it, but it was really more of a statement than a question, so whatever.
EBWOP: Well it looks like he answered. I really should go through all the new posts before I start replying as I read, but his answer really didn't make me feel any better about him.
How does town pocketing town work? I've never heard it thought about that.
It changes depending on if you're town trying to pocket a town read or a secret/tinfoil scum read. With t/t something like a neighborizor gains a lot from it, and some people just like pocketing regardless of alignment (see Tomsloger in basically any game). With town trying to pocket a scum read, it has the possible benefit of delaying your own death, as well as viewing unbiased reactions/behavior to use later. The potential for backfire is very prevalent, if you proclaim a scum read to be town to you and then get killed before you can say otherwise, you might give them some leeway.
Quote from logic »
To clarify, I'm new to this forum and on my phone with the longer posts it's hard to see the thread clearly. Your conversation with Hunt ended in #41 but I thought it continued in to page 2 (that was actually you and GJ though). Do party about feeling each other out was you and GJ not you and Hunt. When I realized my mistake I wanted to correct said mistake and also give my take on you and Hunt correctly since you were the players I named.
I...actually really like this reply (and the follow up in post 130). I'm a little leery that you came to similar conclusions between GJ/me and hunt/me, but I see your train of thought at work here. unvote
God damn it, I hate it when I agree with GJ. I don't like a lot of Shadow's reasons for anything (I *feel* this way, I like his *tone*), it might just be early, but these are all really unqualified answers. I'm also coupling that with most/all of his posts are townclearing people. So bad reasons + all townclears = "made up".
What exactly would a "qualified answer look like? Using tone and feeling that early in a game is probably the most solid reasoning I can have, there's just not enough posts for any patterns to have formed to the point that I'll lean on them. Also, why do you hate when you agree with GJ? He's a good player, what about your thoughts aligning upsets you?
I think I got autocorrected there. I'm trying to say your reasoning is all based on things that are hard to QUANTIFY. So you haven't said "this sentence of this post" bothers me. Or "I like when Kit said T/T because of XXXXX". Basically statements that let me go back and re-read and see what you are seeing, are what I'm looking for. instead you're saying "Bur feels YYYYYYY" or "Bur's Tone is ZZZZZZZ". Which I can understand, being early. I just don't like how you're using those to proclaim town!bur. Like, I would expect more probing of your suspects, OR maybe some verification on your part. Instead I just see "Bur is town, I like his tone". Which leaves me with "Does shadow think this?" or "is that a fake read?" And the answer is that I think it's fake, but it's possible that this is just how shadow gets reactions early on.
Okay, quantify makes a whole lot more sense there. To dig into what you're saying, it's not a fake read, I like what I've seen from Bur so far, however, it's not a strength read. It's the kind of thing that I'll say and then change fluidly as the game progresses. As an example, in Lights Out 2 which ended a couple of days ago, I proclaimed Megs as my top town, only to spearhead a lynch on him 2 pages later (He was scum).
Quote from mind »
Also, I'll toss this out because it's been mentioned twice now. That GJ thing was a throw away line. In every game I've played with him, I've seen things differently. I am *slightly* nervous that we seem to be in agreement. It won't last
I do not like this at all. "I mixed up some people, but it just so happens that the person I named first fits too."
Either you meant what you said and you stand by it, or you justify what you actually meant. You can't have it both ways. You're saying "oh, I totally meant something else, but here's justification for what I said in the first place."
Unvote, Vote Logic
I'm not clear how this makes Logic scummy to you.
What I found scummy was the happenstance here of saying something about hunt and I, then meaning GJ and I, but just so happening to feel the same about hunt and I still. His follow up was much better at conveying what went on, as noted above. What I saw originally was someone who wanted to play both sides of his observation against the middle, but after clarification, I could totally see myself making the same mistake.
@Kit: Some of this has been alluded to already, but could you state your Mafia experience and preferred gender pronouns?
@Grape: Ditto.
@Gruffin: Ditto.
@Logic: Ditto.
I've played LOTS of games on this site, one game on MafiaUniverse, and I am male.
@GJ:
• In 50,your tone feels confident, but you say it's too early to be reading Kit so pure/town. Why do you feel it's too early?
• In 109, why do you say that Rhand's taking the path of least resistance?
@Bur: The part of Gruffin's post that you bolded in 81 seems very obvious to me. What was confusing to you?
@Gruffin:
• What exactly were you asking Shadow in 86?
• Regarding your question in 116: Is it common on whatever site you usually frequent that scum have daychat? It's not very common here, so it's sometimes (but not often) a thing to catch scum because they're coaching each other in-thread. Your asking about it, though, gives me good town vibes from you (unless this game has daychat, of course).
@GJ/Rhand: What's "lhf" (posts 105/106)?
Ok, so enough questions; here are some light reads:
Lean town:
• Gruffin, for 62 and 116
• Rhand, for the RVS vote frustration in 99, as well as general sincerity
• Shadow, for good questions in multiple posts
Lean scum:
• Bur, for feeling very self-aware and precise, but also wanting to look like he's questioning, but using odd question choices (54, question to Gruffin in 81).
• GentlemanJohnny, for the angry tone in 103 when responding to Rhand about the Cyan-related post. GJ, I feel like if you're going to make cryptic posts like that, you shouldn't get upset that someone questions you about them. If you're really wanting to note something as a reminder or a way to compare later Cyan posts, put it in your notes. This feels more like you throwing light mud at Cyan by way of mysterious implication, then getting upset that someone actually asked you to explain it.
As for my vote: Unvote, Vote Mindreaver
First off, Mindreaver, I don't buy that your "I hate agreeing with GJ" was a throw away line. It feels like fabricated emotion. Similarly with the "I hate Shadow's interactions with Bur." I feel like if you were town and felt like Shadow was acting scummy, then saw him interacting with Bur in a way you found coaching, you'd be excited/happy to be making connections between players that lead to solving the game. Instead, you're using "hate" language; again, it feels like fabricated emotion, and misplaced at that.
In addition, your question to Rhand at the end of 95 feels premature. Like...it feels too early in the game for any player to develop more than one degree of suspicion. So I would expect Rhand to be able to explain how he feels about GJ, but asking him to make sophisticated reads on Cyan and Bur based on his GJ read this early...you come off as overeager to get his opinion on them.
Finally, I'm not sure I believe that you have Shadow and Bur as aligned in your notes without also having why you think they're aligned. Your response in 115 feels like you're scrambling to justify that read.
So many new faces. @Gruff/@grape, I'm definitely confusing the two of you already. Do you both play together often? How many time have you played with Kit/Bur? Enough to be able to meta read them this early?
Grape’s pretty much answered this for me, but I’ve played 6 games with Kit/Logic (all town games of theirs), 3 with Grape (all town), and 2 with Bur (1 town, 1 scum). I’m most comfortable with using meta on Kit/Logic because I’ve played with them most. The opposite is true for Bur, partially because of how little I paid attention to him in both games.
Quick question regarding your coaching point: Why would scum be coaching each other in-thread when they have the much safer option of using their secret chat?
Uh, did you just slip that you have daychat? Vote Gruffinchops
I explained most of the town reads. I like where Logic's head is at. Rhand I feel had a decent start, and while I don't care for continuation votes too much, I don't get the slimy feeling from him I have gotten in the past.
Acapado I feel had a very lackluster start, and dislike his 2nd+ posts after the RVS.
Cythare also had a pretty disappointing start.
@Cantrip
LHF = Low hanging fruit. Basically another word for lynchbait.
Post 50, he felt really pure. I still feel that way, but we were still pretty much in the *****post territory, but he feels excited. An excitement that wolves have a very hard time showing. I want to see how it translates later in the game, but right now he is my strongest town read.
In 109, why do you say that Rhand's taking the path of least resistance?
He went with a vote he had already placed in RVS, and really didn't add anything knew, only barned someone else's (I think it was Logic's) point about my comment towards Bur.
As far as 103 goes, I don't know why a townRhand points that out without a real read on me or Cyan. Like, if I am town and trying to make a point to investigate Cyan later, you don't meddle in that. If I am a wolf, why pull the carpet out quickly. He should have let me give myself more rope with. I just don't understand his line there.
If people are being purposefully cryptic, there is usually a reason. I realize he was trying to cop a feel there, but he also should know better, especially as that isn't exactly uncommon for me to try to post cryptically/FPS.
@Mindreaver:
It's pretty common on other sites for wolves to have day chat (Every MU game I have been in, wolves have had 24-7 day chat. I think your gotcha vote is a pretty large stretch,.
First off, Mindreaver, I don't buy that your "I hate agreeing with GJ" was a throw away line. It feels like fabricated emotion. Similarly with the "I hate Shadow's interactions with Bur." I feel like if you were town and felt like Shadow was acting scummy, then saw him interacting with Bur in a way you found coaching, you'd be excited/happy to be making connections between players that lead to solving the game. Instead, you're using "hate" language; again, it feels like fabricated emotion, and misplaced at that.
In addition, your question to Rhand at the end of 95 feels premature. Like...it feels too early in the game for any player to develop more than one degree of suspicion. So I would expect Rhand to be able to explain how he feels about GJ, but asking him to make sophisticated reads on Cyan and Bur based on his GJ read this early...you come off as overeager to get his opinion on them.
Finally, I'm not sure I believe that you have Shadow and Bur as aligned in your notes without also having why you think they're aligned. Your response in 115 feels like you're scrambling to justify that read.
Meh. I got the shadow interaction I wanted, so whatever dude
As far as my GJ relationship, you should go check out our last interaction in Trigger Happy. We're both town, and spent the first three days tearing each other to shreds. I just meant it as a nod to that. Clearly people, I can't have meant that I literally don't want to agree with any single person, because of whatever. Representing my sentence like that is silliness, especially when I've offered an explanation. say you don't believe me, fine. But don't pretend like I am continuing to say "Oh, just going to do the opposite of GJ".
As far as the rest, I could see you read my shadow and bur stuff like that. The Rhand comment though, that seems like you're grasping at straws. I was curious how his thought process would apply to other people, specifically ones GJ has talked about, and I *mostly* agreed with (meaning I specifically didn't see anything scummy in bur, nor in Kit, for whoever was saying I didn't agree with GJ much. That is what I specifically meant). It's one thing for Rhand to say "GJ is scum" it's another to say "because GJ is scum, his interaction with X and Y mean Z".
"I'm not sure I believe that you have Shadow and Bur as aligned in your notes without also having why you think they're aligned". I said they were potentially aligned, specifically because of Bur's coaching of Shadow. Which I 100% qualified as if shadow flips scum at some point, I'd want to go back and look at bur (who I am independently reading as null).
So many new faces. @Gruff/@grape, I'm definitely confusing the two of you already. Do you both play together often? How many time have you played with Kit/Bur? Enough to be able to meta read them this early?
Grape’s pretty much answered this for me, but I’ve played 6 games with Kit/Logic (all town games of theirs), 3 with Grape (all town), and 2 with Bur (1 town, 1 scum). I’m most comfortable with using meta on Kit/Logic because I’ve played with them most. The opposite is true for Bur, partially because of how little I paid attention to him in both games.
Quick question regarding your coaching point: Why would scum be coaching each other in-thread when they have the much safer option of using their secret chat?
Uh, did you just slip that you have daychat? Vote Gruffinchops
It's pretty common on other sites for wolves to have day chat (Every MU game I have been in, wolves have had 24-7 day chat. I think your gotcha vote is a pretty large stretch,.
Interesting. I guess I've never seen it here, and just assumed that night-chat was the default. Hence why coaching in-thread, would be a thing.
@GJ: You're scum reading Cyth because his one post says he's focused on another game O.o?
@Mind: What did you get out of my interaction that you wanted?
I am wolf reading him because he isn't doing anything this game. I am tired of entertaining that excuse. He can earn his town credit when he plays this game like he plays his other games. Like, 100+ posts. In 2-3 days. This is a giant nothing burger for reads.
Just so I'm clear on what you're saying: You see Bur as mostly null with a slight town lean correct? Because that is lot of words to say you don't have much of a read.
He’s neutral. My problem with forming a read on him is that he hasn't done enough game solving to be town, but also hasn't done anything scummy. So I'm stuck in the middle.
What I found scummy was the happenstance here of saying something about hunt and I, then meaning GJ and I, but just so happening to feel the same about hunt and I still. His follow up was much better at conveying what went on, as noted above. What I saw originally was someone who wanted to play both sides of his observation against the middle, but after clarification, I could totally see myself making the same mistake.
Ahh, I see. Yeah, what I took from the post you suspected him for was that he was considering another pair of players in addition to the original pair, which suggested that he was willing to look at things from a different angle. I may have come to this conclusion easier since I’m familiar with his town play though.
@Cantrip
I’m female and this will be my seventh game.
In 86 I was asking Shadow about his post 85 when he says, “And sometimes you get so much more from townreading people than scum reading them.”
Yes, scum are able to talk at anytime in the meta where I come from. If that’s not standard here, then Mind’s point about scum coaching makes much more sense.
No Shadow and Hunt wasn't very hard hitting at all but as stated I done see S/S. It could be T/T or T/S but that will be come clearer later I am sure. #51 - Shadow agreeing with GJ's read on Bur but not Kit. #52 - GJ wants to know what else Shadow has to add? #53 - Says he thought Kit was over-explain and likes GJ for town for now. #55 - GJ says he isn't a huge fan of shadows right now. #57 - Shadow tells GJ that he isn't a fan of anyone town reading him early. Shadow says he feels he can read GJ well and to deal with it #58 - Asks Shadow if he is town reading him, doesn't get why Shadow agrees with Bur but not Kit as he felt Kit was the obvious of the two. #59 - Shadows responds to #58 by saying that GJ puts more stock into Tone Purity than Shadow does. #60 - GJ tells Shadow perhaps
Though the conversation started on how they felt about Kit and Bur, it quickly got into how they feel about one another. I like GJ's #52 as Shadow didn't add much just that he agreed with one and not than the other. This imo shows him trying to understand where Shadow is coming from trying to get more information . #53-#57 they get into explaining how they see one another. Nothing too concrete but I said this feels like an unaligned pair because it doesn't feel choreographed or premeditated. I feels pretty natural on both sides but there is potential for pocketing in regards to how they dealt with one another. Shadow for the seemingly easy town read on GJ without much reasoning to go along with it and GJ for being "paranoid" of Shadow's town read without asking for more information. T/T or T/S but I am not seeing S/S from this. What are your thoughts?
I agree with the bolded points, though I’ve come to a different conclusion than you.
So: Shadow was soul townreading GJ, and GJ asked some open-ended questions. Overall it feels soft to me, but post 58 is a nod in the right direction from GJ with him pushing shadow for an unexpected read. It would have been nice to see some follow-up imo, but the conversation just kind of dropped. If they had followed through pushing each other and building their reads, I would have said unaligned pair, but Shadow’s soulread and GJ’s dropping the issue opens up the possibility of early game scum theater.
How about the GJ/Rhand interaction? I’m seeing an unaligned pair there.
Rhand’s got questions aggressively focusing in on GJ’s thought process in 92. This tells me he’s not afraid to push GJ for something that he wasn’t able to logically follow. GJ then adds to this by fighting back in 103. There’s some straw manning on GJ’s part (talking about “...and so far, the only time you vote me when I am town is when you are a wolf.”) and he then asks some questions of his own. The one that I like is his “Why did you feel the need to call it out?” when asked about a potential Cyan attack, because I found myself wondering why Rhand suggested it. The convo gets into meta banter near the end, but Rhand continues pushing in 104. Overall this interaction consists of Rhand and GJ poking each other with sticks in a way I feel isn’t likely to come from s/s.
@GJ: Your response makes me feel better about you. I still don't quite think I agree with you in 105 regarding why you're townreading Bur. Can you respond to Rhand's question in 106? Because that's sort of my question, too.
Correct me if I'm wrong, GJ, but a lot of other sites use V = Villager, and W = Wolf instead of the T = Town and S = Scum, that is common on this site, right? Which is why you said VV = strong town, V = town, and W = scum?
@Gruffin: Thanks for confirming. Given that daychat is seen (here, at least) as pretty powerful, I would be surprised if Proph gave daychat to scum this game. Hence, you assuming that to be the case points to you being very likely town, as if you were scum, you would have known (and likely wouldn't have brought attention to it). That said, there's a chance there IS daychat in this game, and your assumption was that that was the norm, or that you knew it wasn't the norm, but are just that good as scum...but I'm pretty sure this points very strongly to you being town.
Regarding 86: Thanks for confirming. It wasn't completely clear to me (although it seemed to be to Shadow, so maybe it was just my read that was off), and I wanted to make sure I understood.
@Mind: Did you see my question to Gruffin regarding daychat before you posted 136?
@SJT: Did you see my question to Gruffin regarding daychat OR GJ's comment about it in 137 before you posted 141?
I am not. Unless the whole wolf team has no understanding of Bur, I would venture a guess that there are three townies on him. It is still early mind you, but the way it is going, I think that Bur is likely more town. He is also psuedo volume town telling, but that will come later.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Because this is the 2nd-3rd person who brought up my town reads, Mtgsalvation is jokably slow compared to basically every other site I have played on. ~48 hours in, why is it that hard to believe I have two people as town? It's early day 1, lots of things can change, but the only reason I don't have more is it feels like we are playing with half the deck.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
That's a bold statement. I think they are town. Why do I need to be doubtful at this current stage of the game? My opinion might change, but they are the towniest people posting right now, so I feel safe to call them town.
Maybe. I originally read that statement as a TMI tell from Cyan, basically saying he knew Hunt was town from the way he phrased it. Apart from my hate of gotcha tells, and the fact that rereading it again, I wasn't as sure, I basically wanted to bookmark that statement if he slipped again. Why did you feel the need to call it out?
Not impressed. and so far, the only time you vote me when I am town is when you are a wolf. You were also already voting me from RVS. I suggest you start giving over reads, rather than throwing mud everywhere.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Must mean you're scum then
Can you explain your rationale better how 3 people voting for Bur makes him town while those 3 people are also likely town? I don't get that.
As someone who as wolfed with Bur as town, he is a giant red flag, and wolves won't push him because he is pretty hard lhf. I also don't know enough about the other players voting Bur, where I thought his tone was more town.
You can't tell me you can't recall that you push me everytime you roll wolf when I am town.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
We are talking about RVS votes here. Do you really think anyone cares how many votes someone has before RVS voting in a 16-player game? And if the player they're RVS'ing is lhf or not?
So I mixed up two players. I mistook GJ for Hunt it was actually GJ and Shadow's interactions on Page 2 which felt like trying to figure each other out. Hunt and Shadow's early interactions (22-41) do not feel like an aligned pair or scum theatre though.
#22 - Hunt's entrance getting Shadow's attention ad well add everyone else)
#26 - Shadow asking Hunt if he gets to catch him this time around.
#37 - Hunt saying he might actually be looking forward to working with Shadow for once
#41 - Shadow relaxing they've never been aligned.
This just didn't feel like S/S they aren't really pushing on one another but it feels pretty natural and not forced.
this feels like a hard backpedal. +scum points
Usually earlier. In predator, he started after I voted him day 1 after a "preemptive OMGUS". In XKCD, it was early as well, and then he switched to Iso.
I am holding out for now though. Rhand at least feels like he is trying to game solve, even though he is taking the path of least resistance right now.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Either you meant what you said and you stand by it, or you justify what you actually meant. You can't have it both ways. You're saying "oh, I totally meant something else, but here's justification for what I said in the first place."
Unvote, Vote Logic
____________________________________________
@Hunt: You're quotes are broken. Also, why are you awarding scum points but not following with a vote?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
RVS: ##VOTE: Gentleman Johnny
There are 112 posts. Shouldn't be that tricky.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
To clarify, I'm new to this forum and on my phone with the longer posts it's hard to see the thread clearly. Your conversation with Hunt ended in #41 but I thought it continued in to page 2 (that was actually you and GJ though). Do party about feeling each other out was you and GJ not you and Hunt. When I realized my mistake I wanted to correct said mistake and also give my take on you and Hunt correctly since you were the players I named.
Also, I'll toss this out because it's been mentioned twice now. That GJ thing was a throw away line. In every game I've played with him, I've seen things differently. I am *slightly* nervous that we seem to be in agreement. It won't last
I'll reread. I don't remember why I have you as potentially aligned in my notes as opposed to GJ/Bur
Quick question regarding your coaching point: Why would scum be coaching each other in-thread when they have the much safer option of using their secret chat?
^ Was just about to ask this. In fact, I find GJ’s townreads to have around the same substance as Shadow’s so it's curious that GJ isn't under the same level of scrutiny following the logic behind Mind's Shadow thoughts.
If you're null on Bur why did you say in 95 that you're agreeing with Gentleman Johnny? You actually don't seem to be agreeing with him on very much at all.
But since I'm here: SJT, do you feel as if Huntzilla was voting No lynch intentionally or as a joke? About your other 2 posts:
1. Why did you unvote onto Kitbits so quickly? Do you feel there is something off about them?
2. Are you suspicious of Gruffin?
Our normal attendants will not do for such a trip. We should probably hire some Terris packmen to carry our gear.
Vote Count 1.04 (9 to lynch)
[3] Bur - Grapefruit21, AtheistGod, Huntzilla
[3] Gentleman Johnny - Kitbits, Rhand, Apocado
[1] Huntzilla - Mindreaver
[1] TheRealStinkyJoeTerry - Bur
[1] shadowlancerx - Cantripmancer
[1] Apocado - LogicoftheVI
[1] AtheistGod - Gruffinchops
[1] LogicoftheVI - shadowlancerx
[1] Kitbits - TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
Not Voting: Cyan, Cythare, Gentleman Johnny
Cantripmancer is V/LA until Monday.
The deadline is on Friday, March 17th.
By getting Bur to build a read on me, I'm gaining more insight into how he is thinking about this game, which in turn allows me to build my own read on him. (Getting to that in my next post)
Just so I'm clear on what you're saying: You see Bur as mostly null with a slight town lean correct? Because that is lot of words to say you don't have much of a read.
#51 - Shadow agreeing with GJ's read on Bur but not Kit.
#52 - GJ wants to know what else Shadow has to add?
#53 - Says he thought Kit was over-explain and likes GJ for town for now.
#55 - GJ says he isn't a huge fan of shadows right now.
#57 - Shadow tells GJ that he isn't a fan of anyone town reading him early. Shadow says he feels he can read GJ well and to deal with it
#58 - Asks Shadow if he is town reading him, doesn't get why Shadow agrees with Bur but not Kit as he felt Kit was the obvious of the two.
#59 - Shadows responds to #58 by saying that GJ puts more stock into Tone Purity than Shadow does.
#60 - GJ tells Shadow perhaps
Though the conversation started on how they felt about Kit and Bur, it quickly got into how they feel about one another. I like GJ's #52 as Shadow didn't add much just that he agreed with one and not than the other. This imo shows him trying to understand where Shadow is coming from trying to get more information . #53-#57 they get into explaining how they see one another. Nothing too concrete but I said this feels like an unaligned pair because it doesn't feel choreographed or premeditated. I feels pretty natural on both sides but there is potential for pocketing in regards to how they dealt with one another. Shadow for the seemingly easy town read on GJ without much reasoning to go along with it and GJ for being "paranoid" of Shadow's town read without asking for more information. T/T or T/S but I am not seeing S/S from this. What are your thoughts?
Weekend was busy playing Magic. Probably catching up tomorrow at this point, but I'll also likely spend most of my Mafia time finishing up another game until that's done.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
2. Actually I am. To me, I find that someone caring about a player's read on themselves (Gruffin in this case) at this stage is a bit suspicious. I was kind of hoping he'd answer (#121) before I explained it, but it was really more of a statement than a question, so whatever.
unvote Okay, quantify makes a whole lot more sense there. To dig into what you're saying, it's not a fake read, I like what I've seen from Bur so far, however, it's not a strength read. It's the kind of thing that I'll say and then change fluidly as the game progresses. As an example, in Lights Out 2 which ended a couple of days ago, I proclaimed Megs as my top town, only to spearhead a lynch on him 2 pages later (He was scum). Fair enough. What I found scummy was the happenstance here of saying something about hunt and I, then meaning GJ and I, but just so happening to feel the same about hunt and I still. His follow up was much better at conveying what went on, as noted above. What I saw originally was someone who wanted to play both sides of his observation against the middle, but after clarification, I could totally see myself making the same mistake.
@Grape: Ditto.
@Gruffin: Ditto.
@Logic: Ditto.
I've played LOTS of games on this site, one game on MafiaUniverse, and I am male.
@GJ:
• In 50,your tone feels confident, but you say it's too early to be reading Kit so pure/town. Why do you feel it's too early?
• In 109, why do you say that Rhand's taking the path of least resistance?
@Bur: The part of Gruffin's post that you bolded in 81 seems very obvious to me. What was confusing to you?
@Gruffin:
• What exactly were you asking Shadow in 86?
• Regarding your question in 116: Is it common on whatever site you usually frequent that scum have daychat? It's not very common here, so it's sometimes (but not often) a thing to catch scum because they're coaching each other in-thread. Your asking about it, though, gives me good town vibes from you (unless this game has daychat, of course).
@GJ/Rhand: What's "lhf" (posts 105/106)?
Ok, so enough questions; here are some light reads:
Lean town:
• Gruffin, for 62 and 116
• Rhand, for the RVS vote frustration in 99, as well as general sincerity
• Shadow, for good questions in multiple posts
Lean scum:
• Bur, for feeling very self-aware and precise, but also wanting to look like he's questioning, but using odd question choices (54, question to Gruffin in 81).
• GentlemanJohnny, for the angry tone in 103 when responding to Rhand about the Cyan-related post. GJ, I feel like if you're going to make cryptic posts like that, you shouldn't get upset that someone questions you about them. If you're really wanting to note something as a reminder or a way to compare later Cyan posts, put it in your notes. This feels more like you throwing light mud at Cyan by way of mysterious implication, then getting upset that someone actually asked you to explain it.
As for my vote: Unvote, Vote Mindreaver
First off, Mindreaver, I don't buy that your "I hate agreeing with GJ" was a throw away line. It feels like fabricated emotion. Similarly with the "I hate Shadow's interactions with Bur." I feel like if you were town and felt like Shadow was acting scummy, then saw him interacting with Bur in a way you found coaching, you'd be excited/happy to be making connections between players that lead to solving the game. Instead, you're using "hate" language; again, it feels like fabricated emotion, and misplaced at that.
In addition, your question to Rhand at the end of 95 feels premature. Like...it feels too early in the game for any player to develop more than one degree of suspicion. So I would expect Rhand to be able to explain how he feels about GJ, but asking him to make sophisticated reads on Cyan and Bur based on his GJ read this early...you come off as overeager to get his opinion on them.
Finally, I'm not sure I believe that you have Shadow and Bur as aligned in your notes without also having why you think they're aligned. Your response in 115 feels like you're scrambling to justify that read.
VV
GJ
Kitkat
V
Shadow
Rhand
Logic
Null Line
W
Acapado
Cythare
I explained most of the town reads. I like where Logic's head is at. Rhand I feel had a decent start, and while I don't care for continuation votes too much, I don't get the slimy feeling from him I have gotten in the past.
Acapado I feel had a very lackluster start, and dislike his 2nd+ posts after the RVS.
Cythare also had a pretty disappointing start.
@Cantrip
LHF = Low hanging fruit. Basically another word for lynchbait.
Post 50, he felt really pure. I still feel that way, but we were still pretty much in the *****post territory, but he feels excited. An excitement that wolves have a very hard time showing. I want to see how it translates later in the game, but right now he is my strongest town read.
He went with a vote he had already placed in RVS, and really didn't add anything knew, only barned someone else's (I think it was Logic's) point about my comment towards Bur.
As far as 103 goes, I don't know why a townRhand points that out without a real read on me or Cyan. Like, if I am town and trying to make a point to investigate Cyan later, you don't meddle in that. If I am a wolf, why pull the carpet out quickly. He should have let me give myself more rope with. I just don't understand his line there.
If people are being purposefully cryptic, there is usually a reason. I realize he was trying to cop a feel there, but he also should know better, especially as that isn't exactly uncommon for me to try to post cryptically/FPS.
@Mindreaver:
It's pretty common on other sites for wolves to have day chat (Every MU game I have been in, wolves have had 24-7 day chat. I think your gotcha vote is a pretty large stretch,.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Grapefruit, I like his entrance,
The GJ way path to no lynching:
As far as my GJ relationship, you should go check out our last interaction in Trigger Happy. We're both town, and spent the first three days tearing each other to shreds. I just meant it as a nod to that. Clearly people, I can't have meant that I literally don't want to agree with any single person, because of whatever. Representing my sentence like that is silliness, especially when I've offered an explanation. say you don't believe me, fine. But don't pretend like I am continuing to say "Oh, just going to do the opposite of GJ".
As far as the rest, I could see you read my shadow and bur stuff like that. The Rhand comment though, that seems like you're grasping at straws. I was curious how his thought process would apply to other people, specifically ones GJ has talked about, and I *mostly* agreed with (meaning I specifically didn't see anything scummy in bur, nor in Kit, for whoever was saying I didn't agree with GJ much. That is what I specifically meant). It's one thing for Rhand to say "GJ is scum" it's another to say "because GJ is scum, his interaction with X and Y mean Z".
"I'm not sure I believe that you have Shadow and Bur as aligned in your notes without also having why you think they're aligned". I said they were potentially aligned, specifically because of Bur's coaching of Shadow. Which I 100% qualified as if shadow flips scum at some point, I'd want to go back and look at bur (who I am independently reading as null).
@Mind: What did you get out of my interaction that you wanted?
UNVOTE, VOTE: Gruffinfchops
Strong town, weak town, wolf. Null line is just that: nulls
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I am wolf reading him because he isn't doing anything this game. I am tired of entertaining that excuse. He can earn his town credit when he plays this game like he plays his other games. Like, 100+ posts. In 2-3 days. This is a giant nothing burger for reads.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Ahh, I see. Yeah, what I took from the post you suspected him for was that he was considering another pair of players in addition to the original pair, which suggested that he was willing to look at things from a different angle. I may have come to this conclusion easier since I’m familiar with his town play though.
@Cantrip
I’m female and this will be my seventh game.
In 86 I was asking Shadow about his post 85 when he says, “And sometimes you get so much more from townreading people than scum reading them.”
Yes, scum are able to talk at anytime in the meta where I come from. If that’s not standard here, then Mind’s point about scum coaching makes much more sense.
So: Shadow was soul townreading GJ, and GJ asked some open-ended questions. Overall it feels soft to me, but post 58 is a nod in the right direction from GJ with him pushing shadow for an unexpected read. It would have been nice to see some follow-up imo, but the conversation just kind of dropped. If they had followed through pushing each other and building their reads, I would have said unaligned pair, but Shadow’s soulread and GJ’s dropping the issue opens up the possibility of early game scum theater.
How about the GJ/Rhand interaction? I’m seeing an unaligned pair there.
Rhand’s got questions aggressively focusing in on GJ’s thought process in 92. This tells me he’s not afraid to push GJ for something that he wasn’t able to logically follow. GJ then adds to this by fighting back in 103. There’s some straw manning on GJ’s part (talking about “...and so far, the only time you vote me when I am town is when you are a wolf.”) and he then asks some questions of his own. The one that I like is his “Why did you feel the need to call it out?” when asked about a potential Cyan attack, because I found myself wondering why Rhand suggested it. The convo gets into meta banter near the end, but Rhand continues pushing in 104. Overall this interaction consists of Rhand and GJ poking each other with sticks in a way I feel isn’t likely to come from s/s.
Correct me if I'm wrong, GJ, but a lot of other sites use V = Villager, and W = Wolf instead of the T = Town and S = Scum, that is common on this site, right? Which is why you said VV = strong town, V = town, and W = scum?
@Gruffin: Thanks for confirming. Given that daychat is seen (here, at least) as pretty powerful, I would be surprised if Proph gave daychat to scum this game. Hence, you assuming that to be the case points to you being very likely town, as if you were scum, you would have known (and likely wouldn't have brought attention to it). That said, there's a chance there IS daychat in this game, and your assumption was that that was the norm, or that you knew it wasn't the norm, but are just that good as scum...but I'm pretty sure this points very strongly to you being town.
Regarding 86: Thanks for confirming. It wasn't completely clear to me (although it seemed to be to Shadow, so maybe it was just my read that was off), and I wanted to make sure I understood.
@Mind: Did you see my question to Gruffin regarding daychat before you posted 136?
@SJT: Did you see my question to Gruffin regarding daychat OR GJ's comment about it in 137 before you posted 141?