@Pozzai - I like the follow up and "how has it evolved" section of #242. Tom stated in the Dead QT in the prior game that he was going to try and play a "reasonable playstyle" in his next game (Several of us have brought this up inside this game and commented on it, that's a lot to "miss"), initially thought he was intending to do Newcomb but looks like he's doing Voxx instead; don't think the change from one to other is alignment indicative whatsoever and the fact that his decision to do this was effectively decided before he received his role PM makes you focusing on this nonsensical.
American but I've migrated to Australia and love it here. Picked up a few of the colloquialisms in the meantime.
Hoping you're not in Sydney, the weather here in the past month has been disgustingly bad, constant 40C days; timing of you finishing work makes me think you're over at WA which isn't much better. Curious to hear an American migrants thoughts on a very important matter, if answered correctly will result in your lynch; cricket a good or bad sport?
Melbourne, just awkward shift work hours. 1:30-10:00 is a sensible shift... As for cricket it sucks to watch, but I imagine would be fun to play as long as you're batting or bowling, but would otherwise suck more than watching. Pretty much the same as baseball (which is a slightly better spectator sport). For the other sport that always gets asked in VIC, AFL is fun but nowhere near as good as Victorians make it out to be.
So I do not like 209 and 211 from Typh despite him echoing my scum reads. I dislike his picking apart of X=Y's entrance which felt fairly normal despite not voting in the first post. I also hate using an activity tell this early (or even at all). With Ophidia it's weird that he focuses in on the amount Ophi being new comes up when I'd imagine a similar amount of my posts have a reference to newness as well. Also from games I've read (and Ophi's sig) I get the impression he is just very self conscious about it in general and this player base keeps getting hyped up so I can understand Ophi's leaning on it very naturally as town.
My read on Ophi is entirely tonal and they seem to be playing a different game from what they usually do. See the sass in post 164 as something completely new and different. It doesn't make sense but it just feels like scum Ophi to me.
And suddenly out of time to continue catching up. Will try to later.
@Pozzai - I like the follow up and "how has it evolved" section of #242. Tom stated in the Dead QT in the prior game that he was going to try and play a "reasonable playstyle" in his next game (Several of us have brought this up inside this game and commented on it, that's a lot to "miss"), initially thought he was intending to do Newcomb but looks like he's doing Voxx instead; don't think the change from one to other is alignment indicative whatsoever and the fact that his decision to do this was effectively decided before he received his role PM makes you focusing on this nonsensical.
Excuse me, focusing on this, I mentioned it once, it is something I consider, it is something I have in the back of my head, because there is a choice in which player you want to mimic. You're the one focusing on it, so either take a damn stance on what you want to make of it, or you good sir can effin move on from it. >_>
@Grapes - Never understood the fascination with AFL myself, seems like such a weird sport. NRL on the other hand I enjoy (watching).
@Pozzai - You're missing the point; him having decided pre-game makes it null, that action from him has no influence on my read on him whatsoever; I've got a decently strong town read on him based on other things (And have gone into this last night). My issue here is a) You missing the fact that this was decided pre-game given there ~10 posts made about the matter and b) Your continued accusation that "He's picked a playstyle to give out more town reads" which has...what scum motivation again? He'd be questioned about his reasoning behind his reads and as scum it'd just limit the players he can push on.
@Pozzai - You're missing the point; him having decided pre-game makes it null, that action from him has no influence on my read on him whatsoever; I've got a decently strong town read on him based on other things (And have gone into this last night). My issue here is a) You missing the fact that this was decided pre-game given there ~10 posts made about the matter and b) Your continued accusation that "He's picked a playstyle to give out more town reads" which has...what scum motivation again? He'd be questioned about his reasoning behind his reads and as scum it'd just limit the players he can push on.
*sigh*
Firstly, try to read through the intro of the game as if you hadn't had the previous knowledge of said QT, the only one actually mentioning the QT is Vaimes.
Secondly adapting a playstyle where you pick towns, allow you to avoid too much direct confrontation, and sure, he'll be questioned on his reads, just like everyone else, but you avoid having to go gung-ho at a town and risk it backfiring, it also allows you to more easily setup a tactic of what to do to be snuck into his towncircle without too much fuss, as opposed to having to rely on a townie not exploding back in your face. Add into that the fact that say we flip a scum in his towncircle, you now have the added trouble of having to discern whether that person snuck in there because scum!Tom wanted him slipped in there, or because town!Tom misread them due to being in an unnatural frame of mind(someone elses).
**** me deleted everything by mistake trying again >_>
Outside what I discussed with Vaimes I disliked the "I'd have expected Pozzai to be spamming the thread by now" as it's kind of pre-shades a person to declare your expectations that early in a game, in particular when you know he's in a different timezone. These are the reasons I asked Vaimes for a Newcomb read in the first place. I felt the Vaimes interactions was more how you'd go about parter!Vaimes or fake an interest in town!Vaimes while scum.
Upon re-reading the 2nd point seemed more like a natural response to Vaimes' comment, overall still not a fan of it, but drastically reduced its effect for me. The 1st point was also somewhat quelched by my discussion with Vaimes. Last I played with the two(without me replacing in) Newcomb definitely didn't seem like he had any sort of scumread on Vaimes, didn't back me up when I sported it, wasn't confounded that Fonti read him town for no reason, so my initial evaluation of the statement was more "I don't think Newcomb has the type of read where he could/would just leave Von be"
Overall this still leaned him scum to me, but much less than initially.
What has since moved him to null/maybetown? Was the slow step-by-step townread of Von, from "I'll see" to "Vaimes probably just town" to the manner in which he discusses reads with him. It felt fluent in a manner that I think scum tends to have a hard time mimicking, and finally his interaction with Regfan.
Regfan asked him about what he thought of how he read me, what he felt about my entrance and the questions I asked. Newcomb answered in a fairly accurate/fair manner, but Regfan ignored the response, and didn't follow up on it. I do not think it was a w/w manner of interacting, or at worst a very poorly planned one, because Regfan seemed to not care one single bit about the response in regards to what it meant for my alignment, nor challenge Newcomb on his stance. It seems to clumsy.
The SEVENTEEN EYES of LAPHIDOSIS stir, BLINKING in a PECULIAR FASHION. Through the use of MYSTIC ARTS, MONKS of the ERRYGEAN WAY interpret a very CURIOUS MESSAGE:
To the CONFUSION of THOSE WHO CAME AFTER, some VOTES were not properly WITNESSED by the EYES. And so it CAME TO PASS in those days that those whose VOTES had been SKIPPED, REVOTED.
....How did my vote not count again. I'm going to have to give it another try when I get home tonight.
@Delphine; What's MadZai? I have a feeling we're talking past each other with the Tom/Pozzai section? I understand that Pozzai may not have been aware of Toms playstyle change pregame but I think there's been more than enough mentions of it from several people that if he were reading the thread properly he would have noticed such and thus find his stance on it really hard to buy. I don't think my meta on him is even remotely useful or usable in this game, I've played two games of video mafia (DM) with him and seen him in maybe half a dozen that's it; I don't think a players style from Video Mafia -> Forum Mafia are even remotely the same and find his "You should be using the meta" statement disingenuous. Looking forward to moar and you were 13 when you started mafia? I thought you were 13 now....please don't kill me
@Pozzai - Vaimes wasn't the first person or the only person to mention the QT. I'll do a quick summary for you here; Tom came into the game with a different playstyle to normal, Vaimes noticed such and was suspicious of the change initially, I came in and stated that I found Vaimes's stance on Tom problematic since Tom mentioned in the QT he was planning on trying to use a "reasonable/logical" playstyle in the next game, Vaimes remember this and agreed, Newcomb similarly pointed this out; this was an entire conversation that occurred which you seem to have missed(??). Thanks for elaborating on the "Mentioning lots of town reads has scum motivation" section, I don't agree with it all but at least can see where you're coming from with it now. Also didn't ignore Newcombs response whatsoever (Are you even reading my posts properly here?) I mentioned multiple times that I actually didn't like his answer (My scum read on you wasn't as simple as "lots of questions = scum" which is answer sort of responded to) and that I'm awaiting his more detailed analysis and answer to the question.
@Vaimes; You've now called me entertaining, handsome and think I may have 'pretty posts', if you wanted to bone you could have just asked. All this foreplay seems excessive.
I woke up with a pretty bad cold today, been taking it hella easy. Reg, I will get to your Pozzai thing, I see he's posted more since then and there's some Reg vs. Pozzai going on, I'll probably just try to look at that in detail and morph your question into something more comprehensive, but, yeah, tomorrow.
To whoever was asking me about the Vaimes read, I think it was Ophidia? Vaimes and I have a lot of history. He's probably the person I've played with the most, overall. I've been v/v with him a ton, w/v against him, v/w against him - holy ***** we've never actually rolled mafia together, now that I'm thinking of it. We should totally do that sometime.
But anyway - Vaimes is kind of a special player. He's frequently misread by people who don't know him, as his gamesolving sometimes doesn't look like most people's conception of how town goes about their business.
He's also just, like. A completely easy read. He's kinda fooled me for few Days early in my career, but I got him eventually, and in the past, oh, year or so, I don't think I've been wrong on his alignment once. Of all the players in this game, he's the one guy I look at and I"m like, "if we're both alive on D3, I'll know his alignment 100%"
So you have to look at that in conjunction with my own meta, and the fact that I came into this game with kind of a gameplan to do a few things differently. Some goals include: 1) letting reads come when they come and not trying to force it, 2) not obsessively re-reading the thread to cut down on my workload, and 3) god damn it, this turned into exactly what I didn't want to do, which is think about mafia right now.
Yeah okay so, things that matter for this game:
1. I'm about 80% sure Vaimes is town here.
2. I wouldn't bet the game on it at this point; I've had stronger townreads on Vaimes on D1 before. But lynching him D1 when he's posting like this is not going to happen.
3. That being said, he's still the top poster by a lot, and he's posting with town!Vaimes sass/snark energy.
4. I understand that people who don't know me or Vaimes are probably not moved by this read, but there are enough people in this game who do that it kinda doesn't matter. Like, as long as he's not getting lynched toDay, I'm good, so...
If you want more details on this, you can read posts 99 through 110 in this QT, but at this point I feel like it might not be super relevant to this game.
80% might be lowballing it though, just to be safe. Like, you play this game out 100 times, I think I'm only wrong on Vaimes here like, 5-10 times? So I guess 90-95%.
I do think Vaimes is capable of fooling me and probably will, eventually, but like. I'm going to keep reading him like this until he proves he can beat it, especially in a game like this.
So. Normally this would be a big catchup where I quoted a bunch of stuff and asked a bunch of questions and probably fluffed about my moderately successful tinder date.
But that's not how this method works.
So here's one of these even if it's a bit early for it:
Grapefruit is clearly town. From those first two posts and almost every one after.
Vaimes is probably town, unless he's suddenly figured out how to fake his bursting-at-the-seems exuberance to be town.
Nacho is extremely at ease. Realisitically, that's barely a towntell for him even with this playerlist. And he's already admitted to not being out of his scumrange.
But I'd expect him to have a bit more of an agenda to push and he really seems to me to be coming by his opinions honestly.
Delph also seems town. I like him going through and looking for what I'm referencing, even if he didn't think of games on this very site, and his seems/feels type reads that are very based on gut but he doesn't hide behind them just being gut.
Newcomb is in his own little section. He seems townish, but like Nacho I'm sure even Newcomb would admit he's not out of his scumrange. Not interested in lynching today, certainly, but I'll be keeping a wary eye here.
I also kind of feel like he should be townreading me based on his diamond, but perhaps he can't tell yet that this posting style is actually holding me back quite a bit.
Regfan got some early pressure, myself included, but I think he's responded pretty well.
Maybe, I, too, just want to townread him because he's eloquent and handsome and makes really good points about Tammy's possible illiteracy.
But I got overfocused on the meta part of the Nacho read and there's just more to it than that. And the wordiness really is null.
If, as promised, he constantly reevaluates and the progression is there he can stay this level or higher until some flips tell me maybe he shouldn't.
Typhon and Ophidia are basically in the same place for me.
Looking at the postcount, they both had more than I expected based on how strongly I remember their respective contributions.
I think I'll have a better read on both later, but right now, they're just not quite town.
Everyone else kind of... isn't playing yet or hasn't really reacted to things in a way that I think is meaningful.
Pozzai, in particular, seems awfully out of touch for someone with so many posts and us still being in the early stages of this game.
I will not be moving my vote for the rest of the Day.
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@Regfan: I forget why I'm townreading Pozzai but I probably had a good reason. As for the scum read on Vaimes, he feels frantic and like he's pushing all over the place to see where he gains traction and go from there. It's a gut read on his mindset. With regards to Grapefruit, he feels uncomfortable in a non-townie way. I expect newbtown to be suspicious of everyone but it reads to me like his discomfort stems from an uncertainty of what he needs to be doing, which I don't see being terribly indicative of a town mindset. Town always know what they're supposed to be doing.
Also, your recent posts seem townier than your early stuff so I guess you can be a town lean, now.
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@Typhrous: Ophidia has an extremely bad habit of seeming like scum when he's town. I still haven't found a way to distinguish him as scum simply because I always think he's scum when he's town. That said, I suppose it couldn't hurt for you to check his game history to see what I mean? What are your thoughts on the possibility of Ophidia being scum with X=Y? Also, hi! Did you finally get the fleas to go away?
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@Ophidia: Why do you need to be told to read people in-depth? Don't you care about catching scum?
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@Newcomb: Hi! Let's chat. Also, I think I'm willing to accept your Vaimes read as canon at this point.
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@tom: How do you reconcile my strongest scum read being X=Y and yet you put us as scum together despite his pitiful vote on me?
Does this mean you don't want to be in my townbloc?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Newcomb - That's fine, happy to wait until tomorrow or your Pozzai thoughts. When you're getting to it then I'd like you to go over your read on Typhon in light of his recent posts as well; I've liked his stance and reasoning on X=Y and Ophidia (As well as the way he questioned him) but dislike the lack of town reads from him, trying to work out if my expectations are just too high or not.
I really like the way that Toms going about the game in Post #280 both playstyle wise (If this is what Voxx really is like I need to play with him) and reads wise. His placement of Grapes/Vaimes/Newcomb/Pozzai/X=Y mirror mine. Only reads I'd disagree with is the strength of the Nacho read and the existence of the Delphi one but I am slowly coming around to the latter.
@Delphi, oh I feel like an idiot for not realising what MadZai was now, I'd thought you have been referring to the dota player with the name but then couldn't understand the linkage. Will take on board that he may actually believe that the comparison between Video/Forum is a usable one even if I don't. I'll let him answer my latest post directed to him re; Tom but your analysis has been noted and appreciated for now.
@Iso, thanks for the elaborated reads. Don't mind your X=Y vote at all, other than Pozzai he's my only other scum read at the moment. I can at least see where you're coming from with the Vaimes scum read; I woefully misread him last game while spectating and Newcombs right in that he's not a typical player, I'm pretty sure he's town here though. I disagree pretty strongly with the Grape read, I think while his paranoia and suspicion of players based on their town reads on him does give scum 'something to do', I also think he's attempting to scumhunt; particularly liked his attempt to converse with me over reads before I went for my reread. Let me know when you remember what you town read about Pozzai; would like your thoughts on my (and others) scum reads on him.
Third time to vote is the trick (But seriously if this doesn't work there will be words);
@Regfan (#256):
I see what you mean regarding it being hard to miss completely, but I don't necessarily follow that he wasn't trying to solve the game. (Though being honest, when I was actively hunting through the thread for this topic, I managed to miss the last part of your post #61 4/5 times.) Was following along on my phone at that point and it was a very rapid series posts - felt very much like he was just going through quickly and posting a question/comment to whatever happened to catch his eye. Not too familiar with Pozzai's style, but since all of you said he liked to "spam", I don't think missing something is alignment indicative. Kinda seems like an odd thing to comment on.
I think Vaimes's (and partly tom's) point just a few posts before you is much stronger though.
Whoops, was hoping to catch up to the rest of the thread whilst eating lunch, but I managed to spend most of it writing out this response instead. Will do so in ~5/6 hours when I get home.
I'm hoping to find a little time after work today, but Regfan's posting is looking better and I feel more comfortable with him as town.
As a point of clarification, I wasn't uneasy about you because you had a strong read early; your Typhrous read was comparable in strength to the read of me, and it's not like I haven't played with you before. I thought your read on me specifically was too strong based on what you were reading me for; my early push on you was to read you yes but it was nowhere near the level of the pie push (I pushed him on multiple things that bothered me and it was interwoven with the joke pushing; my push on you was purely and obviously joke pushing since you hadn't posted yet). I also thought it was strange you had such a strong positive response to my push on you when I pushed you harder when I was in the Mara/Sleepykrew Hydra; as town I expect your read on me to have more nuance and that was a point where it seemed to be lacking.
I'm glad Newcomb is playing like normal Newcomb; I certainly understand wanting to cut down on workload but try hard Newcomb is the real Newcomb and I wouldn't want to be robbed of our first (hopefully) real experience together because you decided to be boring like Tammy.
@tom: How do you reconcile my strongest scum read being X=Y and yet you put us as scum together despite his pitiful vote on me?
I don't reconcile that at all. I'm not trying to name the team in any way.
What do you think about Nacho?
I'd also really like you to figure out the reasons for your Pozzai read.
Nacho is a delight and one of my favorite people to play with. I find he tends to have a harder time faking his typical demeanor when he's scum, and as such, I think he's town.
I'm sure you would! I'll probably re-read the game eventually after some flips and re-establish to myself why I'm townreading Pozzai (or start scumreading him, depending). I'll be glad to share if and when that happens.
If you're not trying to name the team, your PoE process could probably use a little refining. Have you tried turning it off and back on again?
Also, you didn't answer my question. Do you want to be part of my townbloc or not?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I informed the mod, but I thought I'd drop this in here as well.
Something unexpected has come up, and I'm probably going to have to be V/LA for about 48 hours or else I'll be semi-V/LA for like a week. Will make it up when I'm back, sorry for the absence.
Actually, Typhrous might be a stronger townread? Him focusing on ~probably low-hanging fruit is a potential yucky thing, but I've liked the interrogation overall. Reads more like genuine digging than waiting to pounce on something.
Hm.
Not interested in lynching Grapefruit, tom, Newcomb, or Ty.
Nachomamma8
DelphiBlue
Regfan
Iso
Ophidia
xequalsy
Pozzai
I'll trim the list further once I've reread a bit, but so far I don't think I'm townreading the entire scumteam again, go me.
I'd also really like you to figure out the reasons for your Pozzai read.
I'm sure you would! I'll probably re-read the game eventually after some flips and re-establish to myself why I'm townreading Pozzai (or start scumreading him, depending). I'll be glad to share if and when that happens.
No, that's not acceptable.
Pozzai is the top wagon, and we're less than 300 posts in.
Your choices are figure it out and elaborate, or remove the read.
Explain why Pozzai isn't:
1 - A mislynch you want no part of
2 - A teammate you can't think of a real way to defend
When tom brought up Nacho in #280, it definitely made me try to think of what he's done since his early pushes. There's not a lot that sticks out to me that he's done since then, which worries me a little. I think I still have the tonal slightly towny read on him from the start of the game, and just going with the flow of the thread doesn't depart from that, but definitely something to keep an eye one I guess. (fake edit: eh #288 is ok I guess, but there doesn't seem to have been any thoughts about Pozzai since their exchange earlier)
I will not be moving my vote for the rest of the Day.
Cool, thanks for letting us know.
But answer my question please - you basically just declared your scum team your second or so post of the game, did Vaimes's push on Regfan seem like distancing to you at the time? Who do you think are scum now (apart from me), since you seem to have recanted your Vaimes and Regfan read?
@Vaimes, any elaboration on your Grapefruit town read in #71? (Or if this isn't "later" yet, thoughts on tom/regfan's townreads of him and his suspicion of you)
When tom brought up Nacho in #280, it definitely made me try to think of what he's done since his early pushes. There's not a lot that sticks out to me that he's done since then, which worries me a little. I think I still have the tonal slightly towny read on him from the start of the game, and just going with the flow of the thread doesn't depart from that, but definitely something to keep an eye one I guess. (fake edit: eh #288 is ok I guess, but there doesn't seem to have been any thoughts about Pozzai since their exchange earlier)
You're not wrong that I haven't done anything since my initial entry; Monday's and Tuesdays are pretty full days for me so I haven't actually got a chance to read and post something more significant than a flyby since then.
Townreading Nacho is really quite a lot of fun. Normally, I just get to do it as scum. But I got a chance to do it as town in the Invitational because Thug is the easiest read of all time. And it was wonderful.
I highly suggest you all give it a try and we can turn on him in a couple of days if it doesn't seem to be working out.
Iso, I'd love to be in a townblock with you but I tend to be the type that likes to see things happen naturally; if we are meant to be, then we are meant to be.
@X=Y RE; #287, I disagree; I think missing large sections of information (You may have missed part of one post of mine but would have been able to pick up what's been said re; the context and conversation that follows) is something that makes more sense from mafia. It's also a case of I think most areas he commented on when catching up don't help him determine anyones alignment and look like throwaway questions.
@Nacho - Huh my memory of the 3 headed hydra game must be very wrong, was under the impression that I replaced into an IC slot (Was that Amerikan mafia instead?). My early read on you here was effectively that your push on me made some more sense as town than scum and liked two of your other posts, it wasn't a strong/lock clear type read which is why I didn't like your #111 since you seem to imply it is one when you know me better than that. Want your thoughts on the rest of the game particularly on Pozzai when you get a chance.
@Vaimes - Don't know what I should be more upset about, you joking about mslynching me or any comparison being made between Fulcrum and myself.
Really like Tom pushing for Iso to elaborate and respond about his Pozzai read and thoughts on others reads on Pozzai inside #296.
Dislike X=Y's recent series of catch up posts and particularly think questions like his one to Iso in #300 and his one to Vaimes in #301 fit more with scum finding questions to ask to seem contributive.
I liked Nachos response to Iso's town block propsal in #310.
Will take a short break from the *****ting on Tammy to thank her for flying over here and sleeping with my boss so I could get to this at work the last two days. She really is going to murder me post game.
Already talked about this one. Not lynching Vaimes toDay, ever. Town until proven otherwise. That was easy, I'll be done in no time!
Pozzai
@Regfan. Pozzai's #120 at Vaimes is clumsy, and I'm noting it here to see if it ever follows up on it.
His #129 doesn't really ping me like it did Regfan. I can see inattentive town coming at tom's gimmick from this angle, like he hadn't put all the pieces together and hadn't really gleaned the context from the thread. Yes, the information was there, but I can see it being the kind of thing you just glaze over a bit since it has to do with an entire other game you didn't follow. That being said, his conclusion -
We are, but by suggesting that it's his adapted persona that likes to create towncircles he indicates that it's not his own, therefore a weaker part or at the very least a less well polished part of his playstyle.
It seems more of a "this gives me an excuse to call people town which I wouldn't normally have" way of adressing the game.
Seems kind of... hm. Like, first of all, why would that really be a scum thing for tom? Scum!tom doesn't need or want an excuse to call more people town than he normally would. Closing off mislynches because you gimmicked a persona that gives out more townreads than you do does not seem like a winning strategy, especially in this player set.
It reads kind of like Pozzai's just kind of throwing up some shade and it feels kind of made up, like it's hard for me to really envision Pozzai coming to that conclusion organically.
I'm noting 133 and linking it to that comment at Vaimes earlier. Basically null, I think. But the Vaimes thread is one I want to keep an eye on.
Is that a yes?
It feels like a yes.
You came in with a flurry and didn't mention the top wagon/most talked about player.
Yeah, no, that's not how I play I give about 0 ****s about early wagons till more information is gained, and Regfan is not really the archetype of person I'm focusing on early day1, sorry not sorry.
Really none of his catch up flurry of posts look like him genuinely attempting to sort peoples alignments other than maaybe his question to Delphine in #125 and I'm not a huge fan of that either.
I don't for a second believe you think that this specific point has any indication of my alignment as you know I tend to keep my cards close to my chest especially early on. In particular because you used this as part of your accusation against me when we played videomafia and you were scum. If I remember correctly, you tend to be more curious and ask me for stances than speaking 'around me' to determine my alignment, instead of just make a blanket statement about what you think 'I' did or did not get from the questions asked.
Vote:Regfan
This, however... doesn't? It's sharp and aggressive and OMGUS-y and everything, but the specificity kind of works for me. I think scum!Pozzai would be more... something. Reasonable. Like, this argument doesn't do much for me. I feel like scum!Pozzai would feel a little exposed by it. I could be giving him too much credit, I suppose? But I don't feel like this is the kind of thing you type as mafia and go, "yep, this is airtight."
I have no read on Newcomb. He's right that I'm town, but I stopped townreading people for that a while ago.
My issue is he goes about you exactly as I feel a town should not go about unknown!Vaimes. Basically trying to get people to pay less attention to you, removing pressure from you by going "ah it doesn't matter now, he can be town till I see something else" by throwing in a townread on you for being top poster after a mainly fluffphase.
Has Newcomb come around to having a strong non-interactive read on you since last we played WH on fantasystrike?
Also kinda like this question. Like... this is fairly thoughtful, and I like the perspective of having an idea about how I'd normally interact with Vaimes given what Pozzai himself has seen of that relationship, and then taking the next step and kind of checking himself and realizing that it's been a long time since he's seen that relationship, and maybe it's evolved quite a bit (which is has.)
Not a fan of this. He's talking to Reg, who he's scumreading, and he comes off as very... hm, muted? Nonconfontational? Like, he's talking to a scumread about tom, and he's not taking the extra step to flip it around on Reg and evolve that read, it's just straight explanation/deflection. NAGL.
#266 just seems like a weirdly narrow interpretation / supposition on what tom's doing. I do... kiiiiinda... agree with a bit of what he's saying, insofar as tom's gimmick adds a layer of fakeness that makes him harder to read. I'm just not sure where he's going with it. Like... yes, that's true, and...?
Pozzai, question for you. In this post, you talk about how Reg and myself are probably not w/w because the interaction we had was "clumsy." Like... I mentioned something about you, Reg didn't really follow up on it, even going so far as to say that Reg "seemed to not care one single bit about the response in regards to what it meant for my alignment, nor challenge Newcomb on his stance."
My question is, in what way does that scream unaligned to you? Because to me, if a player describes a particular interaction in the way you did - clumsy, not picking up things and following through on them, not challenging the other person - that actually seems more likely to come from w/w, or at least doesn't in any way shape or form make me think to call it unaligned.
Follow-up: I've called Vaimes/tom and Xequalsy/Typhorus not w/w. What do you think of my reasoning for that, and do you agree with the conclusion?
I think overall here I'm coming away very mixed on Pozzai. There are some lines of questioning he's taking that are layered in a way that tells me he's not asking them for no reason, or at least is faking that decently. The OMGUS-y scumread of Reg is not really a line I'd expect scum to take there. The overall gamsolving / drive here feels pretty light overall, though. Like, IIRC there's about half of the game that he's not even really addressing or analyzing, which strikes me as odd for one of the top posters.
I feel like if the Day were ending in 30 minutes, I'd feel okay-ish if we ended up on Pozzai, but not super great. There are too many mixed signals here for me to call this a strong scumread, but he's definitely not a townread.
tom:
Instead of looking at tom's posts in detail, I'd like to talk about the gimmick he's doing. I've been keeping an eye on it pretty closely. I also read his 280 Voxx-style reads list pretty carefully. The annoying part of the gimmick is the element of baked in fakeness. That is, is tom saying X because he thinks it's something Voxx would say? It means scumreading him for lack of conviction or kind of feeling awkward a problematic position, since he's, like, doing that as either alignment. Kind of brilliant play as scum, really.
The Monte Diamond that I alluded to earlier is this:
When I said that the Monte Diamond isn't looking good for tom this game, I'm talking about things like his reads post, where he ends up on Pozzai, and the thrust of that read is "Everyone else kind of... isn't playing yet or hasn't really reacted to things in a way that I think is meaningful.
Pozzai, in particular, seems awfully out of touch for someone with so many posts and us still being in the early stages of this game."
Maybe it's just the overlay of Voxx style with tom's thought process, but goddamn is that a lazy read. It also sets off some alarm bells because if Pozzai's town here, he's like, Grade A Certified USDA Mislynch Bait.
HOWEVER - I think one really key thing here is how tom kind of drops in and out of the gimmick. That's a pretty solid towntell towards the green part of the diamond. Because, like - he wants to make himself clear, kind of snaps back to the normal way he talks when something is important enough. So there's this kind of wanting to be understood undertone to his posts that he'll drop the gimmick for, and I feel like scum!tom has more, hm.. not pride, but like - I know he takes pride in his scumgame, and I feel like he'd feel like it was sloppy of him to do so. He'd be more rigorous with the gimmick. Whereas town!tom doesn't care so much about how he's perceived, and is in it for the entertainment, which is consistent with occasionally dropping the gimmick for laziness/wanting to clarify/fun reasons.
That being said, if the drop of the gimmick in certain places is /calculated/, then he's probably just mafia. They don't really feel calculated, but that's kind of a hard thing to judge.
Going with light town here with some reservations, conditionally bumping him to solid town if X=Y is mafia for reasons I'll discuss in a second.
Ophidia
I've pointed out before some of the small things I see as town from him; stuff like "Yeah, hopefully this is a good enough explanation for you, Reg." There's kind of an awkward earnestness to Ophidia's posts that I associate with newbtown.
However, I'm really not loving the amount of excuses he's got, and the effort it takes to get him to analyze things. Playstyle / newness accounts for some of this, probably, and needs to be taken into account, but at a basic level, I'm not seeing the interest / inquisitiveness I'd expect from town of any stripe. This might be a case of something /feeling/ really scummy without it actually making it more likely he really is scum, though. That "don't worry Vaimes, I have a mentor" snapback was a pretty good tonal note.
Towny Posts
#70 provides orginal opinion on Vaimes. A weak town post. But Newcomb, why did you say this:
"Vaimes is the one player in this game who I'm fully confident I'll have a strong read on by the end of the Day"?
Post #150 finally gives content, and pretty good ones at that. He is not townclearing Nacho like the rest of us were doing, and his point on Regfan is solid. He also made a good comment about universal townreads. He is also the first to ask me questions, so that's nice. But why specifically Grapefruit?
Scummy Posts
Many of his posts in pages 1 and 2 were mostly gifs and fluffy posts, which contribute nothing to town. I don't like it.
I like how tom called him out for making a votecount post on page 2. Sounds wierd to me as well.'
I have a lean town read on Newcomb, as he eventually stops his fluff posts and starts to provide content. It does give me a clearer picture on him, as I am too lazy to read in depth without people telling me to. I plan to read more on Regfan and Pozzai next.
I see all fluff posting as a weak scum read, but since I am asked to analyze Newcomb specifically, I have to point that out. Yes, I scumread all of you based on that. But if everybody is doing that, I don't think fluff posting is going to outweigh town tells, which you and Nacho both exhibit.
I am planning to examine pozzai and reg because pozzai is seen as scum by multiple people and is rather easy to read, while I did not really have a feel about reg's alignment, so I have to read again and get a feel of it.
It's just... I have that "how does that come from town?" "Yeah but how does that come from mafia??" dueling voices in my head. Like. There's no progression. It's entirely level 1. "Fluffposting is a scumtell therefore I scumread his fluff posts, but he posted content, so I lean town," essentially. Trivial to fake. I can't ever really imagine him not getting PoE'd out, because losing to this type of scumplay is the worst thing in the world, but... gun to my head he's town? I just see an earnest lack of guile in his posts.
I think I'd not lynch him toDay and kind of pray that he does something blindingly town sheerly by accident, or makes himself unaligned to scum somehow, because absent something like that, he probably never escapes the PoE.
Regfan
Ah, Regfan. My first opportunity to be either horribly right or wrong on him.
His early stuff reads very forced, but I completely believe that's how he could approach the game as town from that position absent replacing in. I wasn't a huge fan of it at the time, but in context and looking at the whole ISO it looks a little better. Or it looks not bad, I guess.
The early read on Nacho is something we've been over a ton. I thiiiink the frustration he exhibited over it was more town than not? Some of what he does there could be construed as kind of artfully backpedaling, but. I think that really only makes sense if Nacho is exactly his partner? Like, scum!Reg knowing Nacho is town here and sticking to that read / getting frustrated over people being dumb kinda makes sense, but not the way he kind of weakened/softened it.
I liked his Ophidia read a fair amount, in particular this bit:
I actually like Ophidias #149, I think the attitude of "Ask me questions so I can learn to analyse" is more likely to come from newtown than newscum. Also think him coming out of Newcombs questions with the opposite alignment than most people on Grapefruit is something unlikely for scum to do, they'd know it leads towards more focus.
It's a good point, and something that I thought to myself, but didn't post, when Ophidia answered my question, so Reg coming to the same conclusion is a good sign here. And actually makes me want to strengthen my weak townread on Ophidia.
I'll briefly touch on his reads post in 205. While I agree with most of what he's saying, I did note that he's essentially regurgitating things he's already said before. Pretty much every read is a variation on things he'd said in the thread previous to that post. The Nacho read is elaborated on slightly, but the vast majority of the notes he hits are very, very similar to what he's said in the past. Which is not bad in and of itself. I think there's a point where it hits critical mass and goes from "organizing my thoughts" to "looking busy," and this is preeeeetty much right on the edge for me.
@Grapes - Never understood the fascination with AFL myself, seems like such a weird sport. NRL on the other hand I enjoy (watching).
@Pozzai - You're missing the point; him having decided pre-game makes it null, that action from him has no influence on my read on him whatsoever; I've got a decently strong town read on him based on other things (And have gone into this last night). My issue here is a) You missing the fact that this was decided pre-game given there ~10 posts made about the matter and b) Your continued accusation that "He's picked a playstyle to give out more town reads" which has...what scum motivation again? He'd be questioned about his reasoning behind his reads and as scum it'd just limit the players he can push on.
Same page here. Also tom and Reg are proooooobably unaligned for that? It doesn't read like a defense of a partner to a third party. Not something I'd really put much stock in unless one of them flips wolf, and then I'd have to come back to it and see how much I really believed it.
Also, Reg, not super relevant to this game, but the tom reads post 280 you mentioned is one of tom's better posts insofar as "mimicking Voxx" goes. So yeah, that's pretty much how Voxx plays at all times.
All in all I think my read on Reg probably mirros his own read on me. He's not coming across as blindingly obvious town to me; I'm more looking out for lack of certain things than anything specific that would "catch" him. So far he's playing a lot like I expected him to play given our lengthy back and forth in the SDV spec chat. He's certainly engaged and paying attention (or doing a good job faking that). I think my biggest feeling of disquiet comes from the ratio of words he's posted to development of reads. Like, his reads have developed, sure, but there's an element to them that feels like it's kind of methodically stacking wood rather than fluidly having real insights and morphing his view of the gamestate. That's... not something I can really articulate beyond that, but it's something I'm pretty closely keeping and eye on and definitely something to re-evaluate later in the game.
Don't want to lynch toDay, but not as strong a townread as I'd like.
Nacho
Nacho's tone is pretty solid, but there just isn't a ton to go off, content-wise.
I got kind of a small scum twinge off this early post:
See two people town reading me off one post of content is not something I feel great about.
I mean I am town, but when I give a relevant meta dump as my reference on tom I think my inexperience goes a bit out the window. I am new, but I have done the legwork and prep and am not a total noob. I've read games of Tom's where he plays mostly straight as town and scum, but this feels like an opportunistic read to gain town cred. Vaimes (for presumably the same reason) wanted to sit on his read a bit longer and see if it bore fruit before sharing his work, while Tom happily reached for an "easy" town read to gain town cred. I don't like it at all.
Vote on tom upgraded to serious vote.
Technically tom townread you off two posts.
I'm townreading you based on this one and this one alone.
It felt a little to me like that thing where you want credit from someone you know is going to end up pretty townread. Like, the extra bit to differentiate yourself.
There's an element to Nacho's posts, at least when you skim his ISO, that he's very much having fun and unconcerned with how he's appearing. It's a tone I associate with town, but I think I have a little too much respect for Nacho's scumgame to read too much into it. Like, off the cuff I'd expect scum!Nacho here to just be more... something. Focused? Throwing his weight around? Concerned with keeping up appearances? To be my own Devil's advocate, he /has/ gotten pretty townread doing what he's doing, and as scum why rock the boat? To me that implies a certain okay-ness with where the game is, though. Like, I kinda doubt the team is Nacho/X=y/Ophidia or something. If Nacho's scum here he's probably scum with at least one person who's doing pretty well right now, for Nacho to be this blasé as mafia. Reg would kinda hurt, and it would make their opening play kind of... ballsy, I guess? Maaaaaaaybe tom?
I'm glad Newcomb is playing like normal Newcomb; I certainly understand wanting to cut down on workload but try hard Newcomb is the real Newcomb and I wouldn't want to be robbed of our first (hopefully) real experience together because you decided to be boring like Tammy.
You had better appreciate the **** out of this post, then, because I did the whole thing in one go with a sore throat.
I actually don't think I have a read on Nacho. I could fudge and call him light town, but the reality is, he's just kinda there. Don't really want to lynch him, but.
Typhrous
Pretty similar to Nacho, actually. More content, less tone. Still reading #20 as characteristic of town!Typhon. I actually think that might make Nacho/Typhon not w/w? It would be pretty smooth, if so.
The exchange with Ophidia is curious. The questions are good, and I like the mindset of trying to pick out exactly what's going on with his head - specifically, "Equally, why are you planning to examine Pozzai and Reg next? Names out of a hat, or are there specific reasons? I know that those are a lot of questions, but I'm trying to see in your head a bit and I'm having a hard time with it."
Like, for all appearances Typhon is trying to sort him, and then... doesn't really? I can understand trying a few times to get into someone's head and failing, but Typhon just kind of drops it without a fuss. He goes from prodding Ophdia about his read on me, to prodding him about his read on Nacho, and still doesn't have any conclusions. It doesn't exactly /feel/ empty, but it functionally ends up that way in the end.
The V/LA complicates that a bit, making it a lot more ambiguous. I'm willing to give Typhon a pass for the day here, but. I didn't come out of my read of him townreading him nearly as much as I thought I would.
Grapefruit21
Kinda fallen off a cliff, which is concerning. Still feel good about him being spewed town by the pileup of early townreads. Not too worried about him endgaming as a wolf here. So all in all, definitely not a read I feel any pressure to develop.
How strong do you think the two town reads you commented on you are? What are your thought on Vaimes?
I'm not seeing why Tom is necessarily being opportunistic in his approach, he reasoned out his thought process - it's another thing entirely if you disagree with how he reached it more than it being based on just the one post.
Mentioned this before, but this post still feels very much like scum playing the "I'm reasonable" card placing himself between two town without really going anywhere with it. Like the scum mindset here is that you feel like you get some points for being correct. Feel pretty strongly that if Xequalsy is a wolf here it's nearly clearing for both Grapefruit AND tom.
Lets talk about 9. So you came into the game, didn't vote with your first post, and then blank voted me with your second post. What's the thought process there? Specifically, why vote there if you didn't with your first vote, and why me of your 12 options? What were you looking for with your questions to Grapefruit? Can you run me through the mindset in which you made 89?
I was planning to naked vote the next person who voted. Not sure I got a lot out of it since you (and everyone else) basically ignored it and disappeared, but it's definitely interesting you're the one who decided to pick it up again.
Not sure if my last post answers fully your question, but the idea was to understand if Grapefruit saw the townreads on him as being particularly strong. It kinda felt like an overreaction to me that he was scum-reading tom (the one who he already acknowledged to be "gimmicky") based on throwing out an early town read. (regarding my question about Vaimes, that was from misreading that he liked Vaimes whilst skimming instead of him being also apprehensive about Vaimes and confused at the contradiction)
Also
Vote: Iso
Come explain your reads please.
Again, both the major points here - the explanation of the naked vote, and the drive to understand Grapefruit's understanding of the strength of the townreads on him - are just... floaty. Like, not only is there no follow through where he goes, "and therefore I think player X is more likely to be [town/mafia], there's no real hint in those two points that you even really /could/ get something like that out of it, making those prods look exceedingly empty.
@Vaimes, any elaboration on your Grapefruit town read in #71? (Or if this isn't "later" yet, thoughts on tom/regfan's townreads of him and his suspicion of you)
@DelphiBlue - You've been very subdued so far. Care to weigh in with a vote on anyone?
... kind of run along the same lines.
Basically xequalsy seems very much like he's kind of on the sidelines, not solving, pushing back against some reads and trying to look reasonable, but the inquisitiveness is pretty surface level. Moderate scumread.
DelphiBlue
Holy **** I'm almost done. The avalanche method really paid off, these last ones are pretty short. Still kinda rushing though.
3) Your play here is maintaining the same lack of clarity with your reads. Other than Grape do you have any town reads and if so who/why?
So, let's start with my Newcomb read. I think that his posts overall come off as someone who is having fun solving, and thus reverting back to their normal town meta despite professing a desire to change their play. In #68 I liked that he flowed out of memedom pretty earlier than I think the guilt would onset as scum and in #76 I liked that he has a real smugness/apparent "I am town and drunk with power" attitude toward Vaimes, even if his explanation of the test is a bit overexplainy/disgustingly self-aware.
Kind of like this read on me. The little shade at the end doesn't really /feel/ like setting me up to be mislynched later, and if it's not that, why even include it if it's a pocket attempt? Basically the angle of looking at me is a bit offbeat - it's not a lazy townread on me. It's not excessively detailed or anything, but it does put some thought into how I specifically would approach this game as either alignment, kind of like how I'm thinking about tom's gimmick. It's possible I'm being pocketed off this, as it does have a just a tinge of that vibe, but, overall I feel like this is a town!Delphine post?
Oh my god, Typh. As part of answering your question I ended up rereading my first game to see how much I noobcarded and now I can't stop laughing.
Would be kind of surprised if Delphine thought to fake this as mafia? I should probably go read that TinyHunt on DLP where she was mafia with tom and see how much a purely tonal read holds up, but so far I'm liking her tone pretty well.
Madzai is mad Pozzai. I am like, 98% sure he is not being "disingenuous" with you about expecting you to have used video mafia meta. He might be mad for you catching him for the wrong reasons, but regardless I really believe it is a theory disagreement and that he believes what he's saying.
I'm still interpreting his original points in #126 & #129 as being based on how tom was talking about "the playstyle [he'd] stolen" rather than the fact he was using an adapted playstyle in the first place, which IMO fits with what he's followed up with on it, feel free to try to reword /shrug
Main thing for me rn with him is I'm kinda concerned that he's picking up on terrible play rather than necessarily scummy play i.e. with the Newcomb push; analysis in #269 is decent thoooo.
---------
Moving on, uh.
Typh, can you summarize what you've gotten out of your recent questions?
Feeling about the same about Newcomb after his latest spurt: moderately town, with a side of disgusting self-awareness.
I miss Nacho.
p-edit: Tom, my preferred pronoun didn't change in the past couple of weeks.
Feel like this is a pretty good post. Compare and contrast the Reg/Pozzai comment with xequalsy's treatment of Grapefruit/tom. It feels a lot less like she's trying to be a mediator without taking a stance and a lot more like she's really considering the options. She has a concrete opinion that Pozzai wasn't being disingenuous, but admits that it could possible be a caught for the wrong reasons thing. Which to me kinda seems like a textbook town angle there.
I also like the question to Typhon; not sure it's alignment indicative but it's one of the stronger things I walked away from reading Typhon's ISO thinking to myself.
Came away from Delphine's ISO with a surprisingly solid townread. Don't want to lynch toDay, at any rate.
Iso
THE END IS SO CLOSE I CAN TASTE IT.
Thankfully I only have like two things here and no actual read, so.
As for the scum read on Vaimes, he feels frantic and like he's pushing all over the place to see where he gains traction and go from there. It's a gut read on his mindset.
-
@Newcomb: Hi! Let's chat. Also, I think I'm willing to accept your Vaimes read as canon at this point.
Reconcile the Vaimes thing for me.
Anything in particular you want to chat about?
Any unique reason you have for scumreading xequalsy, maybe?
Also this bit -
"I expect newbtown to be suspicious of everyone but it reads to me like his discomfort stems from an uncertainty of what he needs to be doing, which I don't see being terribly indicative of a town mindset. Town always know what they're supposed to be doing."
re: Grapefruit - That last bit, town always knows what they're supposed to be doing. I mean, yeeeeah, sorta. In a large scale sense, like, "oh I need to solve the game." But I consider myself pretty experienced and I frequently find myself going, "hm, not really sure where to go here." So I disagree with your premise, but I also don't really see where in Grapefruit's posts you see him kind of floundering and not knowing what to do. We could chat about that, because I reeeeally don't see that one.
____
Easy world: xequalsy/Pozzai/Ophidia
Harder world: Regfan/Nacho/Iso
Suicide world: Vaimes/Grapefruit/Typhon
And with that, I'm going to go take a bunch of antiinflamatories and gargle some salt water. Ah, the joys of being sick.
I have a couple of very important tests coming up, but I have a week of break ahead of me. So I will be really active then.
I am sorry for not being able to answer questions and contribute, but life suddenly got more stressful and I am spending most of the time handling that.
However, I am still following up with the thread, and will get to my reads/answers asap.
Private Mod Note
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I want to just post and interact but no.
I have to read all those posts carefully and ask pertinent questions.
But... later.
Melbourne, just awkward shift work hours. 1:30-10:00 is a sensible shift... As for cricket it sucks to watch, but I imagine would be fun to play as long as you're batting or bowling, but would otherwise suck more than watching. Pretty much the same as baseball (which is a slightly better spectator sport). For the other sport that always gets asked in VIC, AFL is fun but nowhere near as good as Victorians make it out to be.
So I do not like 209 and 211 from Typh despite him echoing my scum reads. I dislike his picking apart of X=Y's entrance which felt fairly normal despite not voting in the first post. I also hate using an activity tell this early (or even at all). With Ophidia it's weird that he focuses in on the amount Ophi being new comes up when I'd imagine a similar amount of my posts have a reference to newness as well. Also from games I've read (and Ophi's sig) I get the impression he is just very self conscious about it in general and this player base keeps getting hyped up so I can understand Ophi's leaning on it very naturally as town.
My read on Ophi is entirely tonal and they seem to be playing a different game from what they usually do. See the sass in post 164 as something completely new and different. It doesn't make sense but it just feels like scum Ophi to me.
And suddenly out of time to continue catching up. Will try to later.
Excuse me, focusing on this, I mentioned it once, it is something I consider, it is something I have in the back of my head, because there is a choice in which player you want to mimic. You're the one focusing on it, so either take a damn stance on what you want to make of it, or you good sir can effin move on from it. >_>
@Pozzai - You're missing the point; him having decided pre-game makes it null, that action from him has no influence on my read on him whatsoever; I've got a decently strong town read on him based on other things (And have gone into this last night). My issue here is a) You missing the fact that this was decided pre-game given there ~10 posts made about the matter and b) Your continued accusation that "He's picked a playstyle to give out more town reads" which has...what scum motivation again? He'd be questioned about his reasoning behind his reads and as scum it'd just limit the players he can push on.
*sigh*
Firstly, try to read through the intro of the game as if you hadn't had the previous knowledge of said QT, the only one actually mentioning the QT is Vaimes.
Secondly adapting a playstyle where you pick towns, allow you to avoid too much direct confrontation, and sure, he'll be questioned on his reads, just like everyone else, but you avoid having to go gung-ho at a town and risk it backfiring, it also allows you to more easily setup a tactic of what to do to be snuck into his towncircle without too much fuss, as opposed to having to rely on a townie not exploding back in your face. Add into that the fact that say we flip a scum in his towncircle, you now have the added trouble of having to discern whether that person snuck in there because scum!Tom wanted him slipped in there, or because town!Tom misread them due to being in an unnatural frame of mind(someone elses).
Overall, or interactions Newcomb <-> Vaimes specifically?
**** me deleted everything by mistake trying again >_>
Outside what I discussed with Vaimes I disliked the "I'd have expected Pozzai to be spamming the thread by now" as it's kind of pre-shades a person to declare your expectations that early in a game, in particular when you know he's in a different timezone. These are the reasons I asked Vaimes for a Newcomb read in the first place. I felt the Vaimes interactions was more how you'd go about parter!Vaimes or fake an interest in town!Vaimes while scum.
Upon re-reading the 2nd point seemed more like a natural response to Vaimes' comment, overall still not a fan of it, but drastically reduced its effect for me. The 1st point was also somewhat quelched by my discussion with Vaimes. Last I played with the two(without me replacing in) Newcomb definitely didn't seem like he had any sort of scumread on Vaimes, didn't back me up when I sported it, wasn't confounded that Fonti read him town for no reason, so my initial evaluation of the statement was more "I don't think Newcomb has the type of read where he could/would just leave Von be"
Overall this still leaned him scum to me, but much less than initially.
What has since moved him to null/maybetown? Was the slow step-by-step townread of Von, from "I'll see" to "Vaimes probably just town" to the manner in which he discusses reads with him. It felt fluent in a manner that I think scum tends to have a hard time mimicking, and finally his interaction with Regfan.
Regfan asked him about what he thought of how he read me, what he felt about my entrance and the questions I asked. Newcomb answered in a fairly accurate/fair manner, but Regfan ignored the response, and didn't follow up on it. I do not think it was a w/w manner of interacting, or at worst a very poorly planned one, because Regfan seemed to not care one single bit about the response in regards to what it meant for my alignment, nor challenge Newcomb on his stance. It seems to clumsy.
VOTECOUNT:
Iso - 1 (xequalsy)
Pozzai - 1 (Vaimes)
Regfan - 2 (Nachomamma8, tomsloger)
Vaimes - 1 (Ophidia)
xequalsy - 1 (Typhrous)
Not Voting - 6 (Iso, Grapefruit21, DelphiBlue, Pozzai, Newcomb, Regfan)
To the CONFUSION of THOSE WHO CAME AFTER, some VOTES were not properly WITNESSED by the EYES. And so it CAME TO PASS in those days that those whose VOTES had been SKIPPED, REVOTED.
Was my vote not seen because of ":" ?
vote Regfan
Ought to read up just in case
vote Regfan
Damn colour tags.
@Delphine; What's MadZai? I have a feeling we're talking past each other with the Tom/Pozzai section? I understand that Pozzai may not have been aware of Toms playstyle change pregame but I think there's been more than enough mentions of it from several people that if he were reading the thread properly he would have noticed such and thus find his stance on it really hard to buy. I don't think my meta on him is even remotely useful or usable in this game, I've played two games of video mafia (DM) with him and seen him in maybe half a dozen that's it; I don't think a players style from Video Mafia -> Forum Mafia are even remotely the same and find his "You should be using the meta" statement disingenuous. Looking forward to moar
and you were 13 when you started mafia? I thought you were 13 now....please don't kill me@Pozzai - Vaimes wasn't the first person or the only person to mention the QT. I'll do a quick summary for you here; Tom came into the game with a different playstyle to normal, Vaimes noticed such and was suspicious of the change initially, I came in and stated that I found Vaimes's stance on Tom problematic since Tom mentioned in the QT he was planning on trying to use a "reasonable/logical" playstyle in the next game, Vaimes remember this and agreed, Newcomb similarly pointed this out; this was an entire conversation that occurred which you seem to have missed(??). Thanks for elaborating on the "Mentioning lots of town reads has scum motivation" section, I don't agree with it all but at least can see where you're coming from with it now. Also didn't ignore Newcombs response whatsoever (Are you even reading my posts properly here?) I mentioned multiple times that I actually didn't like his answer (My scum read on you wasn't as simple as "lots of questions = scum" which is answer sort of responded to) and that I'm awaiting his more detailed analysis and answer to the question.
To whoever was asking me about the Vaimes read, I think it was Ophidia? Vaimes and I have a lot of history. He's probably the person I've played with the most, overall. I've been v/v with him a ton, w/v against him, v/w against him - holy ***** we've never actually rolled mafia together, now that I'm thinking of it. We should totally do that sometime.
But anyway - Vaimes is kind of a special player. He's frequently misread by people who don't know him, as his gamesolving sometimes doesn't look like most people's conception of how town goes about their business.
He's also just, like. A completely easy read. He's kinda fooled me for few Days early in my career, but I got him eventually, and in the past, oh, year or so, I don't think I've been wrong on his alignment once. Of all the players in this game, he's the one guy I look at and I"m like, "if we're both alive on D3, I'll know his alignment 100%"
So you have to look at that in conjunction with my own meta, and the fact that I came into this game with kind of a gameplan to do a few things differently. Some goals include: 1) letting reads come when they come and not trying to force it, 2) not obsessively re-reading the thread to cut down on my workload, and 3) god damn it, this turned into exactly what I didn't want to do, which is think about mafia right now.
Yeah okay so, things that matter for this game:
1. I'm about 80% sure Vaimes is town here.
2. I wouldn't bet the game on it at this point; I've had stronger townreads on Vaimes on D1 before. But lynching him D1 when he's posting like this is not going to happen.
3. That being said, he's still the top poster by a lot, and he's posting with town!Vaimes sass/snark energy.
4. I understand that people who don't know me or Vaimes are probably not moved by this read, but there are enough people in this game who do that it kinda doesn't matter. Like, as long as he's not getting lynched toDay, I'm good, so...
If you want more details on this, you can read posts 99 through 110 in this QT, but at this point I feel like it might not be super relevant to this game.
https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/gZyvwMLNxEEx
I do think Vaimes is capable of fooling me and probably will, eventually, but like. I'm going to keep reading him like this until he proves he can beat it, especially in a game like this.
But that's not how this method works.
So here's one of these even if it's a bit early for it:
Vaimes
tomsloger
Iso
Grapefruit21
Typhrous
DelphiBlue
Pozzai
Newcomb
Ophidia
Regfan
xequalsy
Nachomamma8
I'm town.
Grapefruit is clearly town. From those first two posts and almost every one after.
Vaimes is probably town, unless he's suddenly figured out how to fake his bursting-at-the-seems exuberance to be town.
Nacho is extremely at ease. Realisitically, that's barely a towntell for him even with this playerlist. And he's already admitted to not being out of his scumrange.
But I'd expect him to have a bit more of an agenda to push and he really seems to me to be coming by his opinions honestly.
Delph also seems town. I like him going through and looking for what I'm referencing, even if he didn't think of games on this very site, and his seems/feels type reads that are very based on gut but he doesn't hide behind them just being gut.
tomsloger
Grapefruit21
Vaimes
Nachomamma8
DelphiBlue
Iso
Typhrous
Pozzai
Newcomb
Ophidia
Regfan
xequalsy
Newcomb is in his own little section. He seems townish, but like Nacho I'm sure even Newcomb would admit he's not out of his scumrange. Not interested in lynching today, certainly, but I'll be keeping a wary eye here.
I also kind of feel like he should be townreading me based on his diamond, but perhaps he can't tell yet that this posting style is actually holding me back quite a bit.
Regfan got some early pressure, myself included, but I think he's responded pretty well.
Maybe, I, too, just want to townread him because he's eloquent and handsome and makes really good points about Tammy's possible illiteracy.
But I got overfocused on the meta part of the Nacho read and there's just more to it than that. And the wordiness really is null.
If, as promised, he constantly reevaluates and the progression is there he can stay this level or higher until some flips tell me maybe he shouldn't.
tomsloger
Grapefruit21
Vaimes
Nachomamma8
DelphiBlue
Newcomb
Regfan
Iso
Typhrous
Pozzai
Ophidia
xequalsy
Typhon and Ophidia are basically in the same place for me.
Looking at the postcount, they both had more than I expected based on how strongly I remember their respective contributions.
I think I'll have a better read on both later, but right now, they're just not quite town.
tomsloger
Grapefruit21
Vaimes
Nachomamma8
DelphiBlue
Newcomb
Regfan
Typhrous
Ophidia
Iso
Pozzai
xequalsy
Everyone else kind of... isn't playing yet or hasn't really reacted to things in a way that I think is meaningful.
Pozzai, in particular, seems awfully out of touch for someone with so many posts and us still being in the early stages of this game.
tomsloger
Grapefruit21
Vaimes
Nachomamma8
DelphiBlue
Newcomb
Regfan
Typhrous
Ophidia
Iso
xequalsy
Pozzai
Not 100% sure I did that right, but the colors are pretty and those are my reads.
Vote: Pozzai
I will not be moving my vote for the rest of the Day.
-
@Regfan: I forget why I'm townreading Pozzai but I probably had a good reason. As for the scum read on Vaimes, he feels frantic and like he's pushing all over the place to see where he gains traction and go from there. It's a gut read on his mindset. With regards to Grapefruit, he feels uncomfortable in a non-townie way. I expect newbtown to be suspicious of everyone but it reads to me like his discomfort stems from an uncertainty of what he needs to be doing, which I don't see being terribly indicative of a town mindset. Town always know what they're supposed to be doing.
Also, your recent posts seem townier than your early stuff so I guess you can be a town lean, now.
-
@Typhrous: Ophidia has an extremely bad habit of seeming like scum when he's town. I still haven't found a way to distinguish him as scum simply because I always think he's scum when he's town. That said, I suppose it couldn't hurt for you to check his game history to see what I mean? What are your thoughts on the possibility of Ophidia being scum with X=Y? Also, hi! Did you finally get the fleas to go away?
-
@Ophidia: Why do you need to be told to read people in-depth? Don't you care about catching scum?
-
@Newcomb: Hi! Let's chat. Also, I think I'm willing to accept your Vaimes read as canon at this point.
-
@tom: How do you reconcile my strongest scum read being X=Y and yet you put us as scum together despite his pitiful vote on me?
Does this mean you don't want to be in my townbloc?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'm 100% sure I knew you were a she at some point.
What do you think of Ophidia?
Specifically how he's staying out of anything too juicy.
I don't reconcile that at all. I'm not trying to name the team in any way.
What do you think about Nacho?
I'd also really like you to figure out the reasons for your Pozzai read.
I really like the way that Toms going about the game in Post #280 both playstyle wise (If this is what Voxx really is like I need to play with him) and reads wise. His placement of Grapes/Vaimes/Newcomb/Pozzai/X=Y mirror mine. Only reads I'd disagree with is the strength of the Nacho read and the existence of the Delphi one but I am slowly coming around to the latter.
@Delphi, oh I feel like an idiot for not realising what MadZai was now, I'd thought you have been referring to the dota player with the name but then couldn't understand the linkage. Will take on board that he may actually believe that the comparison between Video/Forum is a usable one even if I don't. I'll let him answer my latest post directed to him re; Tom but your analysis has been noted and appreciated for now.
@Iso, thanks for the elaborated reads. Don't mind your X=Y vote at all, other than Pozzai he's my only other scum read at the moment. I can at least see where you're coming from with the Vaimes scum read; I woefully misread him last game while spectating and Newcombs right in that he's not a typical player, I'm pretty sure he's town here though. I disagree pretty strongly with the Grape read, I think while his paranoia and suspicion of players based on their town reads on him does give scum 'something to do', I also think he's attempting to scumhunt; particularly liked his attempt to converse with me over reads before I went for my reread. Let me know when you remember what you town read about Pozzai; would like your thoughts on my (and others) scum reads on him.
Third time to vote is the trick (But seriously if this doesn't work there will be words);
Vote: Pozzai
Ha, amusing I'm about to get ready to head out for one myself.
Hoping for better than "moderately" successful if only just to beat you.
I see what you mean regarding it being hard to miss completely, but I don't necessarily follow that he wasn't trying to solve the game. (Though being honest, when I was actively hunting through the thread for this topic, I managed to miss the last part of your post #61 4/5 times.) Was following along on my phone at that point and it was a very rapid series posts - felt very much like he was just going through quickly and posting a question/comment to whatever happened to catch his eye. Not too familiar with Pozzai's style, but since all of you said he liked to "spam", I don't think missing something is alignment indicative. Kinda seems like an odd thing to comment on.
I think Vaimes's (and partly tom's) point just a few posts before you is much stronger though.
Whoops, was hoping to catch up to the rest of the thread whilst eating lunch, but I managed to spend most of it writing out this response instead. Will do so in ~5/6 hours when I get home.
As a point of clarification, I wasn't uneasy about you because you had a strong read early; your Typhrous read was comparable in strength to the read of me, and it's not like I haven't played with you before. I thought your read on me specifically was too strong based on what you were reading me for; my early push on you was to read you yes but it was nowhere near the level of the pie push (I pushed him on multiple things that bothered me and it was interwoven with the joke pushing; my push on you was purely and obviously joke pushing since you hadn't posted yet). I also thought it was strange you had such a strong positive response to my push on you when I pushed you harder when I was in the Mara/Sleepykrew Hydra; as town I expect your read on me to have more nuance and that was a point where it seemed to be lacking.
Grapefruit21
tomsloger
Nachomamma8
Newcomb
DelphiBlue
Regfan
Iso
Typhrous
Ophidia
xequalsy
Pozzai
Shrug?
I'm in this weird spot where Regfan ~seems town but mislynching him also sounds really funny, since fulcrum isn't here for us to trollwagon.
We could also yololynch Iso, since he's already 100% called the mafia team.
Nacho is a delight and one of my favorite people to play with. I find he tends to have a harder time faking his typical demeanor when he's scum, and as such, I think he's town.
I'm sure you would! I'll probably re-read the game eventually after some flips and re-establish to myself why I'm townreading Pozzai (or start scumreading him, depending). I'll be glad to share if and when that happens.
If you're not trying to name the team, your PoE process could probably use a little refining. Have you tried turning it off and back on again?
Also, you didn't answer my question. Do you want to be part of my townbloc or not?
Therefore, what good could I possibly be for the rest of the game, right?
-
@Nacho: You didn't answer the townbloc question, either.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Something unexpected has come up, and I'm probably going to have to be V/LA for about 48 hours or else I'll be semi-V/LA for like a week. Will make it up when I'm back, sorry for the absence.
Hm.
Not interested in lynching Grapefruit, tom, Newcomb, or Ty.
Nachomamma8
DelphiBlue
Regfan
Iso
Ophidia
xequalsy
Pozzai
I'll trim the list further once I've reread a bit, but so far I don't think I'm townreading the entire scumteam again, go me.
No, that's not acceptable.
Pozzai is the top wagon, and we're less than 300 posts in.
Your choices are figure it out and elaborate, or remove the read.
Explain why Pozzai isn't:
1 - A mislynch you want no part of
2 - A teammate you can't think of a real way to defend
I probably won't lynch Iso, Delphi, or Regfan D1 unless I strongly feel that they're scum. And so far, I don't.
Nachomamma8
Ophidia
xequalsy
Pozzai
I might end up defaulting to others' reads on Nacho for the time being.
So... did you end up with the same rainbow wall as me except Iso/Nacho?
Also, how do I fluff playing like this?
Do I just... not?
I think you're supposed to ***** about your in-laws and make self-deprecated jokes about being addicted to mafia.
When tom brought up Nacho in #280, it definitely made me try to think of what he's done since his early pushes. There's not a lot that sticks out to me that he's done since then, which worries me a little. I think I still have the tonal slightly towny read on him from the start of the game, and just going with the flow of the thread doesn't depart from that, but definitely something to keep an eye one I guess. (fake edit: eh #288 is ok I guess, but there doesn't seem to have been any thoughts about Pozzai since their exchange earlier)
Cool, thanks for letting us know.
But answer my question please - you basically just declared your scum team your second or so post of the game, did Vaimes's push on Regfan seem like distancing to you at the time? Who do you think are scum now (apart from me), since you seem to have recanted your Vaimes and Regfan read?
My finger slipped.
It was a beautiful dream.
You're not wrong that I haven't done anything since my initial entry; Monday's and Tuesdays are pretty full days for me so I haven't actually got a chance to read and post something more significant than a flyby since then.
I highly suggest you all give it a try and we can turn on him in a couple of days if it doesn't seem to be working out.
That was a "Tom" post, and I apologize.
Ahem. Carry on.
@Nacho - Huh my memory of the 3 headed hydra game must be very wrong, was under the impression that I replaced into an IC slot (Was that Amerikan mafia instead?). My early read on you here was effectively that your push on me made some more sense as town than scum and liked two of your other posts, it wasn't a strong/lock clear type read which is why I didn't like your #111 since you seem to imply it is one when you know me better than that. Want your thoughts on the rest of the game particularly on Pozzai when you get a chance.
@Vaimes - Don't know what I should be more upset about, you joking about mslynching me or any comparison being made between Fulcrum and myself.
Really like Tom pushing for Iso to elaborate and respond about his Pozzai read and thoughts on others reads on Pozzai inside #296.
Dislike X=Y's recent series of catch up posts and particularly think questions like his one to Iso in #300 and his one to Vaimes in #301 fit more with scum finding questions to ask to seem contributive.
I liked Nachos response to Iso's town block propsal in #310.
Will take a short break from the *****ting on Tammy to thank her for flying over here and sleeping with my boss so I could get to this at work the last two days. She really is going to murder me post game.
Alright, let's see where I am. Gonna try the avalanche method here and go by post count.
Vaimes 59
Pozzai 37
tomsloger 27
Ophidia 26
Regfan 26
Newcomb 25
Nachomamma8 22
Typhrous 22
Grapefruit21 16
xequalsy 15
DelphiBlue 14
Iso 7
Vaimes:
Already talked about this one. Not lynching Vaimes toDay, ever. Town until proven otherwise. That was easy, I'll be done in no time!
Pozzai
@Regfan. Pozzai's #120 at Vaimes is clumsy, and I'm noting it here to see if it ever follows up on it.
His #129 doesn't really ping me like it did Regfan. I can see inattentive town coming at tom's gimmick from this angle, like he hadn't put all the pieces together and hadn't really gleaned the context from the thread. Yes, the information was there, but I can see it being the kind of thing you just glaze over a bit since it has to do with an entire other game you didn't follow. That being said, his conclusion -
Seems kind of... hm. Like, first of all, why would that really be a scum thing for tom? Scum!tom doesn't need or want an excuse to call more people town than he normally would. Closing off mislynches because you gimmicked a persona that gives out more townreads than you do does not seem like a winning strategy, especially in this player set.
It reads kind of like Pozzai's just kind of throwing up some shade and it feels kind of made up, like it's hard for me to really envision Pozzai coming to that conclusion organically.
I'm noting 133 and linking it to that comment at Vaimes earlier. Basically null, I think. But the Vaimes thread is one I want to keep an eye on.
This feels a little over the top.
This, however... doesn't? It's sharp and aggressive and OMGUS-y and everything, but the specificity kind of works for me. I think scum!Pozzai would be more... something. Reasonable. Like, this argument doesn't do much for me. I feel like scum!Pozzai would feel a little exposed by it. I could be giving him too much credit, I suppose? But I don't feel like this is the kind of thing you type as mafia and go, "yep, this is airtight."
Some minor TownPoints for following through on the Vaimes question. Indicative that he's actually interested in the answer. Kinda thin, though.
Also kinda like this question. Like... this is fairly thoughtful, and I like the perspective of having an idea about how I'd normally interact with Vaimes given what Pozzai himself has seen of that relationship, and then taking the next step and kind of checking himself and realizing that it's been a long time since he's seen that relationship, and maybe it's evolved quite a bit (which is has.)
Not a fan of this. He's talking to Reg, who he's scumreading, and he comes off as very... hm, muted? Nonconfontational? Like, he's talking to a scumread about tom, and he's not taking the extra step to flip it around on Reg and evolve that read, it's just straight explanation/deflection. NAGL.
#266 just seems like a weirdly narrow interpretation / supposition on what tom's doing. I do... kiiiiinda... agree with a bit of what he's saying, insofar as tom's gimmick adds a layer of fakeness that makes him harder to read. I'm just not sure where he's going with it. Like... yes, that's true, and...?
Pozzai, question for you. In this post, you talk about how Reg and myself are probably not w/w because the interaction we had was "clumsy." Like... I mentioned something about you, Reg didn't really follow up on it, even going so far as to say that Reg "seemed to not care one single bit about the response in regards to what it meant for my alignment, nor challenge Newcomb on his stance."
My question is, in what way does that scream unaligned to you? Because to me, if a player describes a particular interaction in the way you did - clumsy, not picking up things and following through on them, not challenging the other person - that actually seems more likely to come from w/w, or at least doesn't in any way shape or form make me think to call it unaligned.
Follow-up: I've called Vaimes/tom and Xequalsy/Typhorus not w/w. What do you think of my reasoning for that, and do you agree with the conclusion?
I think overall here I'm coming away very mixed on Pozzai. There are some lines of questioning he's taking that are layered in a way that tells me he's not asking them for no reason, or at least is faking that decently. The OMGUS-y scumread of Reg is not really a line I'd expect scum to take there. The overall gamsolving / drive here feels pretty light overall, though. Like, IIRC there's about half of the game that he's not even really addressing or analyzing, which strikes me as odd for one of the top posters.
I feel like if the Day were ending in 30 minutes, I'd feel okay-ish if we ended up on Pozzai, but not super great. There are too many mixed signals here for me to call this a strong scumread, but he's definitely not a townread.
tom:
Instead of looking at tom's posts in detail, I'd like to talk about the gimmick he's doing. I've been keeping an eye on it pretty closely. I also read his 280 Voxx-style reads list pretty carefully. The annoying part of the gimmick is the element of baked in fakeness. That is, is tom saying X because he thinks it's something Voxx would say? It means scumreading him for lack of conviction or kind of feeling awkward a problematic position, since he's, like, doing that as either alignment. Kind of brilliant play as scum, really.
The Monte Diamond that I alluded to earlier is this:
When I said that the Monte Diamond isn't looking good for tom this game, I'm talking about things like his reads post, where he ends up on Pozzai, and the thrust of that read is "Everyone else kind of... isn't playing yet or hasn't really reacted to things in a way that I think is meaningful.
Pozzai, in particular, seems awfully out of touch for someone with so many posts and us still being in the early stages of this game."
Maybe it's just the overlay of Voxx style with tom's thought process, but goddamn is that a lazy read. It also sets off some alarm bells because if Pozzai's town here, he's like, Grade A Certified USDA Mislynch Bait.
HOWEVER - I think one really key thing here is how tom kind of drops in and out of the gimmick. That's a pretty solid towntell towards the green part of the diamond. Because, like - he wants to make himself clear, kind of snaps back to the normal way he talks when something is important enough. So there's this kind of wanting to be understood undertone to his posts that he'll drop the gimmick for, and I feel like scum!tom has more, hm.. not pride, but like - I know he takes pride in his scumgame, and I feel like he'd feel like it was sloppy of him to do so. He'd be more rigorous with the gimmick. Whereas town!tom doesn't care so much about how he's perceived, and is in it for the entertainment, which is consistent with occasionally dropping the gimmick for laziness/wanting to clarify/fun reasons.
That being said, if the drop of the gimmick in certain places is /calculated/, then he's probably just mafia. They don't really feel calculated, but that's kind of a hard thing to judge.
Going with light town here with some reservations, conditionally bumping him to solid town if X=Y is mafia for reasons I'll discuss in a second.
Ophidia
I've pointed out before some of the small things I see as town from him; stuff like "Yeah, hopefully this is a good enough explanation for you, Reg." There's kind of an awkward earnestness to Ophidia's posts that I associate with newbtown.
However, I'm really not loving the amount of excuses he's got, and the effort it takes to get him to analyze things. Playstyle / newness accounts for some of this, probably, and needs to be taken into account, but at a basic level, I'm not seeing the interest / inquisitiveness I'd expect from town of any stripe. This might be a case of something /feeling/ really scummy without it actually making it more likely he really is scum, though. That "don't worry Vaimes, I have a mentor" snapback was a pretty good tonal note.
I'm looking at his progression on me:
It's just... I have that "how does that come from town?" "Yeah but how does that come from mafia??" dueling voices in my head. Like. There's no progression. It's entirely level 1. "Fluffposting is a scumtell therefore I scumread his fluff posts, but he posted content, so I lean town," essentially. Trivial to fake. I can't ever really imagine him not getting PoE'd out, because losing to this type of scumplay is the worst thing in the world, but... gun to my head he's town? I just see an earnest lack of guile in his posts.
I think I'd not lynch him toDay and kind of pray that he does something blindingly town sheerly by accident, or makes himself unaligned to scum somehow, because absent something like that, he probably never escapes the PoE.
Regfan
Ah, Regfan. My first opportunity to be either horribly right or wrong on him.
His early stuff reads very forced, but I completely believe that's how he could approach the game as town from that position absent replacing in. I wasn't a huge fan of it at the time, but in context and looking at the whole ISO it looks a little better. Or it looks not bad, I guess.
The early read on Nacho is something we've been over a ton. I thiiiink the frustration he exhibited over it was more town than not? Some of what he does there could be construed as kind of artfully backpedaling, but. I think that really only makes sense if Nacho is exactly his partner? Like, scum!Reg knowing Nacho is town here and sticking to that read / getting frustrated over people being dumb kinda makes sense, but not the way he kind of weakened/softened it.
I liked his Ophidia read a fair amount, in particular this bit:
It's a good point, and something that I thought to myself, but didn't post, when Ophidia answered my question, so Reg coming to the same conclusion is a good sign here. And actually makes me want to strengthen my weak townread on Ophidia.
I'll briefly touch on his reads post in 205. While I agree with most of what he's saying, I did note that he's essentially regurgitating things he's already said before. Pretty much every read is a variation on things he'd said in the thread previous to that post. The Nacho read is elaborated on slightly, but the vast majority of the notes he hits are very, very similar to what he's said in the past. Which is not bad in and of itself. I think there's a point where it hits critical mass and goes from "organizing my thoughts" to "looking busy," and this is preeeeetty much right on the edge for me.
Same page here. Also tom and Reg are proooooobably unaligned for that? It doesn't read like a defense of a partner to a third party. Not something I'd really put much stock in unless one of them flips wolf, and then I'd have to come back to it and see how much I really believed it.
Also, Reg, not super relevant to this game, but the tom reads post 280 you mentioned is one of tom's better posts insofar as "mimicking Voxx" goes. So yeah, that's pretty much how Voxx plays at all times.
All in all I think my read on Reg probably mirros his own read on me. He's not coming across as blindingly obvious town to me; I'm more looking out for lack of certain things than anything specific that would "catch" him. So far he's playing a lot like I expected him to play given our lengthy back and forth in the SDV spec chat. He's certainly engaged and paying attention (or doing a good job faking that). I think my biggest feeling of disquiet comes from the ratio of words he's posted to development of reads. Like, his reads have developed, sure, but there's an element to them that feels like it's kind of methodically stacking wood rather than fluidly having real insights and morphing his view of the gamestate. That's... not something I can really articulate beyond that, but it's something I'm pretty closely keeping and eye on and definitely something to re-evaluate later in the game.
Don't want to lynch toDay, but not as strong a townread as I'd like.
Nacho
Nacho's tone is pretty solid, but there just isn't a ton to go off, content-wise.
I got kind of a small scum twinge off this early post:
It felt a little to me like that thing where you want credit from someone you know is going to end up pretty townread. Like, the extra bit to differentiate yourself.
There's an element to Nacho's posts, at least when you skim his ISO, that he's very much having fun and unconcerned with how he's appearing. It's a tone I associate with town, but I think I have a little too much respect for Nacho's scumgame to read too much into it. Like, off the cuff I'd expect scum!Nacho here to just be more... something. Focused? Throwing his weight around? Concerned with keeping up appearances? To be my own Devil's advocate, he /has/ gotten pretty townread doing what he's doing, and as scum why rock the boat? To me that implies a certain okay-ness with where the game is, though. Like, I kinda doubt the team is Nacho/X=y/Ophidia or something. If Nacho's scum here he's probably scum with at least one person who's doing pretty well right now, for Nacho to be this blasé as mafia. Reg would kinda hurt, and it would make their opening play kind of... ballsy, I guess? Maaaaaaaybe tom?
You had better appreciate the **** out of this post, then, because I did the whole thing in one go with a sore throat.
I actually don't think I have a read on Nacho. I could fudge and call him light town, but the reality is, he's just kinda there. Don't really want to lynch him, but.
Typhrous
Pretty similar to Nacho, actually. More content, less tone. Still reading #20 as characteristic of town!Typhon. I actually think that might make Nacho/Typhon not w/w? It would be pretty smooth, if so.
The exchange with Ophidia is curious. The questions are good, and I like the mindset of trying to pick out exactly what's going on with his head - specifically, "Equally, why are you planning to examine Pozzai and Reg next? Names out of a hat, or are there specific reasons? I know that those are a lot of questions, but I'm trying to see in your head a bit and I'm having a hard time with it."
Like, for all appearances Typhon is trying to sort him, and then... doesn't really? I can understand trying a few times to get into someone's head and failing, but Typhon just kind of drops it without a fuss. He goes from prodding Ophdia about his read on me, to prodding him about his read on Nacho, and still doesn't have any conclusions. It doesn't exactly /feel/ empty, but it functionally ends up that way in the end.
The V/LA complicates that a bit, making it a lot more ambiguous. I'm willing to give Typhon a pass for the day here, but. I didn't come out of my read of him townreading him nearly as much as I thought I would.
Grapefruit21
Kinda fallen off a cliff, which is concerning. Still feel good about him being spewed town by the pileup of early townreads. Not too worried about him endgaming as a wolf here. So all in all, definitely not a read I feel any pressure to develop.
xequalsy
Mentioned this before, but this post still feels very much like scum playing the "I'm reasonable" card placing himself between two town without really going anywhere with it. Like the scum mindset here is that you feel like you get some points for being correct. Feel pretty strongly that if Xequalsy is a wolf here it's nearly clearing for both Grapefruit AND tom.
Again, both the major points here - the explanation of the naked vote, and the drive to understand Grapefruit's understanding of the strength of the townreads on him - are just... floaty. Like, not only is there no follow through where he goes, "and therefore I think player X is more likely to be [town/mafia], there's no real hint in those two points that you even really /could/ get something like that out of it, making those prods look exceedingly empty.
Subsequent posts...
... kind of run along the same lines.
Basically xequalsy seems very much like he's kind of on the sidelines, not solving, pushing back against some reads and trying to look reasonable, but the inquisitiveness is pretty surface level. Moderate scumread.
DelphiBlue
Holy **** I'm almost done. The avalanche method really paid off, these last ones are pretty short. Still kinda rushing though.
Kind of like this read on me. The little shade at the end doesn't really /feel/ like setting me up to be mislynched later, and if it's not that, why even include it if it's a pocket attempt? Basically the angle of looking at me is a bit offbeat - it's not a lazy townread on me. It's not excessively detailed or anything, but it does put some thought into how I specifically would approach this game as either alignment, kind of like how I'm thinking about tom's gimmick. It's possible I'm being pocketed off this, as it does have a just a tinge of that vibe, but, overall I feel like this is a town!Delphine post?
Would be kind of surprised if Delphine thought to fake this as mafia? I should probably go read that TinyHunt on DLP where she was mafia with tom and see how much a purely tonal read holds up, but so far I'm liking her tone pretty well.
Feel like this is a pretty good post. Compare and contrast the Reg/Pozzai comment with xequalsy's treatment of Grapefruit/tom. It feels a lot less like she's trying to be a mediator without taking a stance and a lot more like she's really considering the options. She has a concrete opinion that Pozzai wasn't being disingenuous, but admits that it could possible be a caught for the wrong reasons thing. Which to me kinda seems like a textbook town angle there.
I also like the question to Typhon; not sure it's alignment indicative but it's one of the stronger things I walked away from reading Typhon's ISO thinking to myself.
Came away from Delphine's ISO with a surprisingly solid townread. Don't want to lynch toDay, at any rate.
Iso
THE END IS SO CLOSE I CAN TASTE IT.
Thankfully I only have like two things here and no actual read, so.
Reconcile the Vaimes thing for me.
Anything in particular you want to chat about?
Any unique reason you have for scumreading xequalsy, maybe?
Also this bit -
"I expect newbtown to be suspicious of everyone but it reads to me like his discomfort stems from an uncertainty of what he needs to be doing, which I don't see being terribly indicative of a town mindset. Town always know what they're supposed to be doing."
re: Grapefruit - That last bit, town always knows what they're supposed to be doing. I mean, yeeeeah, sorta. In a large scale sense, like, "oh I need to solve the game." But I consider myself pretty experienced and I frequently find myself going, "hm, not really sure where to go here." So I disagree with your premise, but I also don't really see where in Grapefruit's posts you see him kind of floundering and not knowing what to do. We could chat about that, because I reeeeally don't see that one.
____
Easy world: xequalsy/Pozzai/Ophidia
Harder world: Regfan/Nacho/Iso
Suicide world: Vaimes/Grapefruit/Typhon
And with that, I'm going to go take a bunch of antiinflamatories and gargle some salt water. Ah, the joys of being sick.
Vote: xequalsy
I am sorry for not being able to answer questions and contribute, but life suddenly got more stressful and I am spending most of the time handling that.
However, I am still following up with the thread, and will get to my reads/answers asap.