The existence of a Jailer at all basically townfirms DV.
There's a weird edge case where he's scum, and the mafia just got absurdly unlucky and somehow shot into another protective role or were blocked. Much less likely though.
Another possibility is that there is no Jailer, and the mafia No Kill'd to backup DV's claim. But then DV's "Jailer didn't stop the NK" would be ??? so just kidding that world does not exist.
Anyway yeah Jailer target claiming is something we should utilize.
Oh no I thought of it. Its just a stupid point because I knew I was in jail and would always know I'm in jail and thus would tell my scum partner/s to do the kill.
Makes like zero sense.
I highly doubt scum would be able to scumchat if they were jailed.
T/s list is bull. He used it to point out the two scum on the bottom and pointed out vaimes went to null.
Didn't need to post the whole list for that.
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2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Why would he post a t/s list of the jailor if it has to be edited? On top of that, he used it to point out the jailors scum reads. And to point out vaimes moved from lean town to null.
Why not just say
Jailor thought anuk and ghosting were scum
And i convinced them to move vaimes to null.
Looking at the list and doing some some simple deductions, if scum!dv wanted to out the jailor i'd go from where vaimes is on the list in lean town and then match it on the null annnnd ya got scarbo.
Posted list in case he was jailed again, since i doubt jailed scum can night chat, and presto you got a dead jailor.
This is, of course way out in left field, but why else would he post an entire list of a prs reads? The fact it is edited makes it useless. Esspecially since we now know the jailer isnt in the scum reads (he used that part to point out 2 more scum) or in the town reads (said he edited that part)
Which narrows it down to 8. Still giving scum a better chance at finsing the jailor.
The whole action of even posting an entire reads list of a hidden pr is dangerous.
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afaik Jail functions as a protect/roleblock with a QT.
I sincerely doubt it would block a mafioso from accessing scumchat. I have never seen a case where scum couldn't access scumchat via another role targeting them, and I doubt it's mechanically possible in normal games.
I'd prefer the Jailor not targeting Rodemy tonight, he is not objective about D_V.
@D_V - Did you tell the Jailor you are a PR, if so did you tell him which role exactly?
@Iso - The only thing I remember about your reads are that Vaimes is scum and Rodemy and Vaimes are unaligned. I'd think you would be happy with the plan even if Rodemy feels frantic. Or are you doubting your reads?
@Rodemy - Read D_V posts in context, he was worried the Jailor is mafia and played him and wanted to hear our thoughts. Thats actually a townie thing to do. Also, giving that T/S list to town can be beneficial too, even if the mafia gets to see it as well. Obviously it would be better to show just the town players, but you can't do that.
afaik Jail functions as a protect/roleblock with a QT.
I sincerely doubt it would block a mafioso from accessing scumchat. I have never seen a case where scum couldn't access scumchat via another role targeting them, and I doubt it's mechanically possible in normal games.
If they repeat it enough times its TRUE!
Cantrip and Rodemy taking the trump approach to arguing.
afaik Jail functions as a protect/roleblock with a QT.
I sincerely doubt it would block a mafioso from accessing scumchat. I have never seen a case where scum couldn't access scumchat via another role targeting them, and I doubt it's mechanically possible in normal games.
That would make a jailer fairly useless against scum. And a jailer with a one shot kill? Instant death unless scum aren't able to chat while jailed.
Doesn't nightchat fall under abilities? If jailer is essentially a rb with a qt, the scum lose their abilities for the night.
Also, side note after reading more on the role of jailor: isn't the qt anon for the jailor?
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I don't think I've ever consciously tried to be "on the record" for anything as either alignment without actually saying the words "for the record." And a lot of my scumplay is improv. I don't really plan or strategize (unless I believe myself to be the strongest player on the team, in which case I turn into a control freak), because I think it makes me look townier. You are free to disregard this self-meta dump until one of us is dead.
Again, can anyone who's played with Vaimes confirm that this is standard for Vaimes?
Seems about right to me, but I only played with Vaimes for a bit.
The reason you asked for a name claim was because of how Zomg responded to your neutral claim?
YES?
How is that not clear?
Well, I see that as problematic, seeing as how you asked for a name claim in 280, but didn't claim neutral until 295. So you couldn't have used Zomg's response to your neutral claim to drive your name claim request, because you hadn't claimed neutral yet! You're making stuff up on the fly, and now you're getting caught in your own inconsistencies. Boom!
I looked back, this is actually right.
It does show D_V is painting the history in a different color than it actually happened, which is suspicious.
Still, all the info we got from Night 1 does point to D_V being more likely town than not.
@Rodemy: I dunno, almost sounds like you scumslipped with the "scum can't Nighttalk when Jailed" thing. Do we also know for a fact that scum don't have Daytalk? Because you seem awfully certain.
-
@mete0r: While I think Rodemy and Vaimes are unaligned, I also am very inclined to believe both of them are scum at this time, albeit for different reasons. Their back-and-forth doesn't feel like scum x scum and if it is just scum theater, they've executed it masterfully, so bravo. That said, Vaimes is slightly more scummy to me than Rodemy at the moment, but obviously if Vaimes flips town, that means Rodemy's likely to get my vote, next.
Unless reading the game changes my opinion on any of this dramatically, of course.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Rodemy: I dunno, almost sounds like you scumslipped with the "scum can't Nighttalk when Jailed" thing. Do we also know for a fact that scum don't have Daytalk? Because you seem awfully certain.
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@mete0r: While I think Rodemy and Vaimes are unaligned, I also am very inclined to believe both of them are scum at this time, albeit for different reasons. Their back-and-forth doesn't feel like scum x scum and if it is just scum theater, they've executed it masterfully, so bravo. That said, Vaimes is slightly more scummy to me than Rodemy at the moment, but obviously if Vaimes flips town, that means Rodemy's likely to get my vote, next.
Unless reading the game changes my opinion on any of this dramatically, of course.
Honestly, the fact i believe there is no daytalk is due to the sole fact i have never been in a game with that as a thing.
Cool, you are scum reading me. *thumbs up*
Princess. Nother castle. All that jazz. But that won't change your mind.
Bedtaim.
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I was doing a full reread, but I've been at it for 5 hours straight now. I'm forcing myself to stop.
This is what I have from the first 8 or so pages.
Vaimes
Vaimes starts by asking Rodemy his age. I kind of liked that question. It seemed relevant to Rod’s posting style (+town)
Immediately believes Ophidia’s VT claim (+town, I believed her too)
Votes rodemy for the Ophidia attack (+town, I agreed at the time)
#66 should mean Vaimes is leery of shadow, but he doesn’t follow up on that read ever. (+scum)
#71 is bad. Very bad. He wants Rodemy to be pressured, but isn’t adding any pressure whatsoever (+scum)
I agreed with most of Vaimes’s T/S list at the time, but now spotted something that makes me want to lynch him: his zomg read.
Quote from Vaimes »
I thought zomg’s RVS vote was really funny, but unfortunately, NAI. I’m still going to put him in my leaning-town-but-not-really-sure group.
If Vaimes is indeed scum, then I think he accidentally cleared Kitty (Iso) in #182 lol
Conclusion: Scum. My early tunneling made me overlook a lot it seems, because he was one of my strongest townreads in the beginning.
Huntzilla
#47: Enters the game after RVS, barns the bad Rodemy attack on Ophidia but in the same post turns 180° AND puts down an RVS vote (++scum)
Keeps giving me town points, which is the complete opposite of how Hunt usually reads me. Either he became really good at reading me, or he’s scum. (null)
In #282, he says he dislikes me and Rodemy for our Ghosting push, but at the same time he says “I’m not seeing what you all are with Ghosting”. That seems to imply he believes we do see something with Ghosting, which we wouldn’t really if we were scum and he town, would we? (+scum)
Conclusion: scum
D_V
Calls Atog obv scum for 1 post and me town in the same post, while I basically /barned that one post from Atog. (++scum)
In his next post, all he does is explain his Atog vote. Lots has happened to which he doesn’t react at all. (+scum)
Total lack of content in his posts (+scum)
He calls Ghosting and Shadow scum (#266) but without reasoning (+scum)
Conclusion: scum
Iso kittythegoddess
Ophidia m. Ecophagy
Claims vanilla off the bat. Gives him no wiggle room afterwards if ever put to claim range (+town)
I love #108. Might be completely correct (+town)
I like how he starts pushing omega for real content. (+town)
Conclusion: town
Scarbo
Cleared by zomg in #194 (thanks zomg)
Conclusion: town
Ghosting
I can’t get over the whole thing that happened with him. If you reread him, it is clear that I was his scumread, and that I was the one he was interested in. His turn into “it was always Rodemy / Ophidia” still bugs me.
#127 (his first post): he calls Ophidia town, Rodemy town and is interested in me.
#130 he says that I am the one he is most suspicious of and asks Vaimes if me and Rodemy can both be town (ME and Rodemy. Not Ophidia and Rodemy)
Vaimes never answers his question and Ghosting never asks him to (+scum)
I agree completely on his red read (+town)
In #184 he acknowledges that he was talking about me when asking Vaimes that question
In #206 I can understand that he misread my statement because I didn’t explicitly mention names. But I do mention them in #208 when I answer. There can be no misunderstanding about who we are talking about.
And yet in all his next posts, he forgot who he asked Vaimes about initially and talks about Rodemy/Ophidia instead of Rodemy/Rhand. It confuses the hell out of me.
In #240 he clearly doesn’t think Rodemy is town anymore, while in #250 he calls him town again (+scum)
In #256 he asks Rodemy too look for his scumbuddies. What good can it do to let someone you think is town look for your buddies when you’re town yourself? (+scum)
It bothers me that Ghosting doesn’t call out zomg for his terribad T/S and only responds to the part about him (#258). When asked about zomg, he shows that he did see how bad the T/S was (#302) (+scum)
However, the tone of his defensive posts sounds really sincere (++town)
Conclusion: I have no idea. Part of me wants him to be scum, but I the sincerity of his posts is something I can’t shrug off. Probably town?
Mete0rShower Atogoholic
Atog calls Rodemy scummy in RVS (+town, I agreed)
Atog disappears (null)
Conclusion: null
Anaklusmos red_0mega
Red_0mega /barns Rodemy’s bad Ophidia attack (+scum)
In #74 he only asks about terminology. He doesn’t feel interested in the game at all. (+scum)
#80 makes me think that he’s not happy with Vaimes townclearing Ophidia (+Vaimes/Anak relation)
And #105 looks like he doesn’t like it when Hunt vouches for a towntell of mine (+Hunt/Anak relation)
#132: there’s a real tonal difference between how he answers Vaimes and how he answers Ophidia.
#133: he /barns Ghosting’s post that I didn’t like. (+scum)
Conclusion: scum
Cantripmancer
Joins the game late. I love his catch-up post (++town)
And everything he posts afterwards. Cantrip is town.
Conclusion: town
Rodemy
I thought his RVS felt off, but I think I misread his sense of humor (null)
Throws unnecessary pressure on Ophidia for the VT claim (+scum)
Calls out Vaimes for Garciaing a question (+town)
Is tying people together way too early in post #41 (+scum)
From #53 onwards, I think Rodemy is undoubtedly town. His reaction to my tunneling him feels genuine.
Conclusion: town
Shadowlancerx
#37: minor wording tell, but “I want to town read Vaimes” sounds off. Also, the @Rodemy part feels over explanatory (+scum)
#56 is a good unvote (+town)
#167: I like who he’s asking questions (+town)
Conclusion: probably town
Zomg’s T/S:
Maybe it’s just me, but if you look at the difference between how he talks about D_V and Vaimes in his townpile vs everyone else there, they are the only two where he doesn’t tell us that they can be scum too. All other reads he leaves open.
Okay I caught up, here is my thoughts on everyone so far. I do understand its the holidays and this day is gonna take longer than normal because of it but some people i just dont have reads on yet
Town:
Zomgarcwind
Ophidia – early claim, that comes from someone desperate to make it a few days in rather than always die D1/N1. #174 could be scummy though, making the town assume the T:S ratios etc.
Vaimes- This feels like town vaimes right now, he is trying to stop stupid wagons from starting and scum hunting for real scum not for the easy lynch and flip
Rodemy- His behavior is the same behavior he has every day 1, even his scum game plays this way day 1. Im gonna stick him in the town pile for the day and look at him harder later down the line
Huntzilla- Has not posted much content, most of his stuff feels PTAP. Could be Scum with Rod or Rhand #100 feels like coaching but his couple of other posts feel town
D_V- Also hasn’t posted much, but as I reread I would start thinking something and he would say it, like his #113, literally 2 minutes ago I was thinking atog could be scummy because of his early posts then bam I read it.
Cantripmancer- Had solid questions for everyone, while ive never played with him before I find posts like his first content post to not come from a scum unless that scum is wolfing.
Null:
Shadowlancerx- I need more posts to read him, but im usually pretty good at doing it. Im hoping that he can be sorted by 3/4 thru the day. #167 I liked a lot though, town!shadow doesn’t use OOG to win, Scum!shadow would.
Scarbo- One post to let us know he would be back asap, nothing to go on.
Kittythegoddess- 1 Word this game, I need more!
red_0mega- Seems to play kinda cautiously, I cant tell if its refusing to name leads because he has none or if he overanalyses
Scummy:
Atogoholic- those few posts just seemed opportunistic. Why did you make them Atog?
Ghosting- You feel like scum trying to get wagons started, maybe this is you just hunting since it benefits you this game. Then you pre-emptavely post games, including a micro scum and neutral game. I think I just have a problem with you including a neutral game, are you hinting that you rolled it AGAIN? Like I think your wagon could be just bull*****, but I dunno, link me a non-micro scum game maybe?
Rhand- Seems like he is trying to hunt, but might just be that wine. Definitely appearing to make himself tied to Atog. Has been moving his vote around quite a bit. TSTBS or Wolfing?
My vote is going to one of you, please answer my questions so I can decide which one Unvote
I have too many scumreads. I'll continue the reread after the weekend.
It's like saying a Roleblocker should be able to prevent Masons from communicating or something.
The Jailer is anonymous in the QT, but of course they can choose to reveal themselves.
Why would the jailor reveal themselves ever if scum can just go "hey, so and so is jailer, killplz" and on n1? And to d_v after d1?
I don't know much about mafia roles but seems to me exactly thats why they make the chat anonymous. If the jailor trust enough the person they jailed to reveal who they are.. then well, they are taking a risk to get killed.
Even if it was blocked, then mafia would still send someone else to do the NK as they will see scum!D_V not participating in the chat, or they get a mod comment or something.
@Ghosting - Reminding you about the T/S list I asked for.
I should feel better about Rhand after this last post, but then I read the Vaimes part and instead of "My early tunneling made me overlook a lot it seems" I'm seeing Vaimes-getting-heat-better-change-read.com @Rhand - how would Jailor claiming help town? (Post #852)
I'm putting Rodemy and Cantripmancer on Ignore basically.
I'm not reading either of them have to say. They are both super toxic and ruining my game experience at this point.
No time right now, but I wanted to pop in and apologize for this. Whether you're scum or not, it's never my intent to make anyone miserable. I had a lot going on last night, and I wanted to get my thoughts out regardless, and so it probably came across a little more abrasive than it should have.
Huh. You don't strike me as the kind who would fake that kind of emotion. And that's not the a response I would expect from scum under attack. Dismissal, yes, "game now sucks", no.
Ok, yeah, when I have time, I'll do a thorough reread of our exchanges.
Regardless of your intentions, your questions have the potential to clear people, which is fishing. I don't believe you're doing this maliciously, and I get it, DV has lied about a lot. But this isn't a lie that can be maintained if there is no actual jailer, and it will clear itself up if there is.
I'm really busy today studying so I can't do too much, but I do want to post the T/S list I was asked for (sorry you had to remind me Meteor). It might turn into rambling, but I've honestly gone back and forth from confident to completely lost in this game, so hopefully it ends up making sense. Feel free to ask for clarification wherever necessary, and I'll still be checking in to answer questions, I just can't devote almost any time today (or the first half of tomorrow) to reading and actively playing beyond that. Killer semester so far and the MCAT being next week has only added to the stresses.
Town:
So these are players that I'm very comfortable saying are town. I'll expand on reasons wherever necessary, but will try to include what I have written in the notes on my iPad right now.
Cantripmancer: I know that walls of text don't necessarily equate to being town, but I do feel that Cantrip's constantly been trying to solve the game. He isn't just posting walls of texts, he's asking questions, follow up questions, and it doesn't seem like he's doing so maliciously. An example is that he doesn't seem to have a problem with admitting he's wrong, or thinking about things without just tunneling. His play has generally come across as natural and with a genuine desire to win the game for town.
Iso: I've played with Iso more than a few times, and I do feel that he's playing how town Iso plays. Furthermore, when Iso's reads mimic my own, it solidifies my opinion that he's town. I can expand on this more if needed, but I won't lie and say there's piles of town points he's earned, rather, lots of intuition and him sharing my thoughts a lot (which whenever that happens I tend to townread the person because if I'm town and coming to the same conclusions, it makes sense that they're more likely to be town).
Ophidia: I remember townreading Ophidia earlier, I don't have anything from today that makes me think he's town or scum though, so this is just here for the same reasons as D1. I do want to see more from him though, is he v/la or am I just missing what he's said today? I do think that sometimes when he's posted it just seems pointless. At one point he said that a post I made was "interesting", and was curious about other people's thoughts, but went nowhere from there. Kind of read as opportunistic, but mostly read as lazy town.
Lean Town:
Mete0rShower: To be honest, I would have Meteor as full town if it wasn't that I felt so weird about Atog yesterday. Definitely a good job replacing in, if you're scum you've changed how I feel about the person you replaced quite a bit so props for that. I plan to read more into Meteor as time goes on and I get a better feel, but so far so good.
Shadowlancerx: I think I've already explained why I feel this way fairly recently, I'll link to the post if necessary but I'm pretty sure it was within the past day or two. Lean town because I only more recently started feeling this way, was feeling worse yesterday so not quite comfortable having him as lean town yet.
Rodemy: I don't know if this even needs explaining lol, I'll elaborate if needed but I've gone over how I think Rod is town enough as is.
Null:
Rhand: Rhand's play today has made me feel like I may have been tunneling yesterday, or he was talked to or something. I put him as null because I'm genuinely on the fence about him, like I said earlier; if other people come up as scum, I think my read on him would become much more clearly defined. I'm basically having a hard time deciding if what he's doing is opportunistic scum or consistent town, lol. Kind of makes you realize that no matter how much mafia you play, you can still feel so out of the loop with reads sometimes.
Scarbo: Need to read scarbo more, there's nothing in my iPad notes and off the top of my head I just remember feeling less than ideal about him. Someone can remind me to reread him or go into more detail later and I definitely will.
D_V: Still trying to figure out the D_V situation, planning on doing that when my workload decreases. If there is a jailer, and he/she thought D_V was scum, wouldn't they have said something? Killing 2 scum and losing 1 jailer seems good by D2. So I think either D_V is town, or there is no jailer?
Lean Scum:
Anaklusmos: I'm going to link you guys to specific posts later tonight about this, but basically I feel like he's contributed next to nothing while also playing opportunistically. And I always feel like there's that one scum who kind of sits in the back and quietly floats along while being eager, which is how I'm reading him. Like I said I'll link the posts later tonight because that's easiest.
Vaimes: I've also explained this a bit, will go over again if necessary.
Have to rush down to school so sorry if I left anything/anyone off, will add more later. Feel free to ask questions guys, I'll do my best to not be too inactive.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@ghosting, scarbo posted next to nothing yesterDay if i remember correctly.
He unvoted cantrip after zomg claimed his fake tracker role and i believe that's the last we've heard of him.
I feel that is more scummy than anything else. That, mixed with his poor attitude of me calling him out on his cantrip read puts him in the scum column for me.
More side notes that is who zomg placed a vote on with "rvs reasoning"
Scarbo saw nothing inherently scummy or inpressive about zomg.
I'm going off memory here because all i have is my phone and it's frustrating to navigate this site.
Scarbos lack of posting toDay also raises a few flags.
There ya go.
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Because if the jailor claims, we know if D_V is selling us yet another gambit or not.
But as I said, it can wait.
The way I see it, it will out a PR and we will still most likely have tons of ???? about who is telling the truth and what really happened, so I'm not sure how much help it would be right now anyway.
Unless you are expecting the Jailor to come forward with some proof that D_V is mafia, which I don't see possible.
BTW, didn't mean to discourage your 5 hours effort, just annoyed that I can't read you. Effort appreciated.
Just for *****s and giggles, would you have revealed yourself to d_v after that d1?
Rodemy, stop fishing for power roles.
Meteor: regardless of whether you're jailer or not, don't answer that question.
Will do.
This should remind any player who in the future posts a scum team that includes both Shadow and Rodemy that it doesn't make sense. (Flashbacks to Bare Bones)
@ghosting, scarbo posted next to nothing yesterDay if i remember correctly.
He unvoted cantrip after zomg claimed his fake tracker role and i believe that's the last we've heard of him.
I feel that is more scummy than anything else. That, mixed with his poor attitude of me calling him out on his cantrip read puts him in the scum column for me.
More side notes that is who zomg placed a vote on with "rvs reasoning"
Scarbo saw nothing inherently scummy or inpressive about zomg.
I'm going off memory here because all i have is my phone and it's frustrating to navigate this site.
Scarbos lack of posting toDay also raises a few flags.
There ya go.
Nice. I was starting to get worried that you are a neutral that needs D_V dead.
What do you think about Huntzilla?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'm putting Rodemy and Cantripmancer on Ignore basically.
I'm not reading either of them have to say. They are both super toxic and ruining my game experience at this point.
No time right now, but I wanted to pop in and apologize for this. Whether you're scum or not, it's never my intent to make anyone miserable. I had a lot going on last night, and I wanted to get my thoughts out regardless, and so it probably came across a little more abrasive than it should have.
Huh. You don't strike me as the kind who would fake that kind of emotion. And that's not the a response I would expect from scum under attack. Dismissal, yes, "game now sucks", no.
Ok, yeah, when I have time, I'll do a thorough reread of our exchanges.
Its chill I've cooled off. I'll probabally step back for a day or two.
I'm probabally really frustrated because I feel like you are town and just ignoring many things to fit your point. For example when I show someone voting Zomg because of my neutral claim you just 100% buried it and moved on.
You actually make a good point about the Neutral claim/Name claim thing I was running a few things in my mind at the time and thought I had done it differently. See and that's the thing you are definitively town because you are reading this. I just think that I as a scum player will be hyper aware of things like that and go back and check, instead of just saying how I think it went down.
The existence of a Jailer at all basically townfirms DV.
There's a weird edge case where he's scum, and the mafia just got absurdly unlucky and somehow shot into another protective role or were blocked. Much less likely though.
Another possibility is that there is no Jailer, and the mafia No Kill'd to backup DV's claim. But then DV's "Jailer didn't stop the NK" would be ??? so just kidding that world does not exist.
Anyway yeah Jailer target claiming is something we should utilize.
So are you just gonna ignore the fact he posted the read list orrrrr...
Like...
If thete was a jailer, and there are 13 names, why would the jailor put themselves in anything but town?
Which means the list is fake.
DV should probably talk about that.
Really? Because there is no excuse for that.
"No big deal"
really ruins any town cred you had left.
Stop fishing.
No. Why would he even post the list if that had to be done?
I highly doubt scum would be able to scumchat if they were jailed.
T/s list is bull. He used it to point out the two scum on the bottom and pointed out vaimes went to null.
Didn't need to post the whole list for that.
Except what shadow said. If D_V is your top scumspect, why aren't you reading what he's said about the matter?
Also, as for why I don't trust you, you are all over the freaking place, here. Take a chill pill. You feel frantic.
what does this even mean
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'm not reading either of them have to say. They are both super toxic and ruining my game experience at this point.
Why not just say
Jailor thought anuk and ghosting were scum
And i convinced them to move vaimes to null.
Looking at the list and doing some some simple deductions, if scum!dv wanted to out the jailor i'd go from where vaimes is on the list in lean town and then match it on the null annnnd ya got scarbo.
Posted list in case he was jailed again, since i doubt jailed scum can night chat, and presto you got a dead jailor.
This is, of course way out in left field, but why else would he post an entire list of a prs reads? The fact it is edited makes it useless. Esspecially since we now know the jailer isnt in the scum reads (he used that part to point out 2 more scum) or in the town reads (said he edited that part)
Which narrows it down to 8. Still giving scum a better chance at finsing the jailor.
The whole action of even posting an entire reads list of a hidden pr is dangerous.
I sincerely doubt it would block a mafioso from accessing scumchat. I have never seen a case where scum couldn't access scumchat via another role targeting them, and I doubt it's mechanically possible in normal games.
@D_V - Did you tell the Jailor you are a PR, if so did you tell him which role exactly?
@Iso - The only thing I remember about your reads are that Vaimes is scum and Rodemy and Vaimes are unaligned. I'd think you would be happy with the plan even if Rodemy feels frantic. Or are you doubting your reads?
@Rodemy - Read D_V posts in context, he was worried the Jailor is mafia and played him and wanted to hear our thoughts. Thats actually a townie thing to do. Also, giving that T/S list to town can be beneficial too, even if the mafia gets to see it as well. Obviously it would be better to show just the town players, but you can't do that.
If they repeat it enough times its TRUE!
Cantrip and Rodemy taking the trump approach to arguing.
Meator I've already claimed it.
That would make a jailer fairly useless against scum. And a jailer with a one shot kill? Instant death unless scum aren't able to chat while jailed.
Doesn't nightchat fall under abilities? If jailer is essentially a rb with a qt, the scum lose their abilities for the night.
Also, side note after reading more on the role of jailor: isn't the qt anon for the jailor?
Seems about right to me, but I only played with Vaimes for a bit.
I looked back, this is actually right.
It does show D_V is painting the history in a different color than it actually happened, which is suspicious.
Still, all the info we got from Night 1 does point to D_V being more likely town than not.
Literally no role exists that can yank a mafia out of scumchat.
The Jailer is anonymous in the QT, but of course they can choose to reveal themselves.
Concidering the jailor is anon in the qt, i feel like if the jailor is known to who they jail, it would be a pretty good balance in case he hits scum.
Why would the jailor reveal themselves ever if scum can just go "hey, so and so is jailer, killplz" and on n1? And to d_v after d1?
-
@mete0r: While I think Rodemy and Vaimes are unaligned, I also am very inclined to believe both of them are scum at this time, albeit for different reasons. Their back-and-forth doesn't feel like scum x scum and if it is just scum theater, they've executed it masterfully, so bravo. That said, Vaimes is slightly more scummy to me than Rodemy at the moment, but obviously if Vaimes flips town, that means Rodemy's likely to get my vote, next.
Unless reading the game changes my opinion on any of this dramatically, of course.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Honestly, the fact i believe there is no daytalk is due to the sole fact i have never been in a game with that as a thing.
Cool, you are scum reading me. *thumbs up*
Princess. Nother castle. All that jazz. But that won't change your mind.
Bedtaim.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
This is what I have from the first 8 or so pages.
Vaimes
Vaimes starts by asking Rodemy his age. I kind of liked that question. It seemed relevant to Rod’s posting style (+town)
Immediately believes Ophidia’s VT claim (+town, I believed her too)
Votes rodemy for the Ophidia attack (+town, I agreed at the time)
#66 should mean Vaimes is leery of shadow, but he doesn’t follow up on that read ever. (+scum)
#71 is bad. Very bad. He wants Rodemy to be pressured, but isn’t adding any pressure whatsoever (+scum)
I agreed with most of Vaimes’s T/S list at the time, but now spotted something that makes me want to lynch him: his zomg read.
If Vaimes is indeed scum, then I think he accidentally cleared Kitty (Iso) in #182 lol
Conclusion: Scum. My early tunneling made me overlook a lot it seems, because he was one of my strongest townreads in the beginning.
Huntzilla
#47: Enters the game after RVS, barns the bad Rodemy attack on Ophidia but in the same post turns 180° AND puts down an RVS vote (++scum)
Keeps giving me town points, which is the complete opposite of how Hunt usually reads me. Either he became really good at reading me, or he’s scum. (null)
In #282, he says he dislikes me and Rodemy for our Ghosting push, but at the same time he says “I’m not seeing what you all are with Ghosting”. That seems to imply he believes we do see something with Ghosting, which we wouldn’t really if we were scum and he town, would we? (+scum)
Conclusion: scum
D_V
Calls Atog obv scum for 1 post and me town in the same post, while I basically /barned that one post from Atog. (++scum)
In his next post, all he does is explain his Atog vote. Lots has happened to which he doesn’t react at all. (+scum)
Total lack of content in his posts (+scum)
He calls Ghosting and Shadow scum (#266) but without reasoning (+scum)
Conclusion: scum
Iso kittythegoddess
Ophidia m. Ecophagy
Claims vanilla off the bat. Gives him no wiggle room afterwards if ever put to claim range (+town)
I love #108. Might be completely correct (+town)
I like how he starts pushing omega for real content. (+town)
Conclusion: town
Scarbo
Cleared by zomg in #194 (thanks zomg)
Conclusion: town
Ghosting
I can’t get over the whole thing that happened with him. If you reread him, it is clear that I was his scumread, and that I was the one he was interested in. His turn into “it was always Rodemy / Ophidia” still bugs me.
#127 (his first post): he calls Ophidia town, Rodemy town and is interested in me.
#130 he says that I am the one he is most suspicious of and asks Vaimes if me and Rodemy can both be town (ME and Rodemy. Not Ophidia and Rodemy)
Vaimes never answers his question and Ghosting never asks him to (+scum)
I agree completely on his red read (+town)
In #184 he acknowledges that he was talking about me when asking Vaimes that question
In #206 I can understand that he misread my statement because I didn’t explicitly mention names. But I do mention them in #208 when I answer. There can be no misunderstanding about who we are talking about.
And yet in all his next posts, he forgot who he asked Vaimes about initially and talks about Rodemy/Ophidia instead of Rodemy/Rhand. It confuses the hell out of me.
In #240 he clearly doesn’t think Rodemy is town anymore, while in #250 he calls him town again (+scum)
In #256 he asks Rodemy too look for his scumbuddies. What good can it do to let someone you think is town look for your buddies when you’re town yourself? (+scum)
It bothers me that Ghosting doesn’t call out zomg for his terribad T/S and only responds to the part about him (#258). When asked about zomg, he shows that he did see how bad the T/S was (#302) (+scum)
However, the tone of his defensive posts sounds really sincere (++town)
Conclusion: I have no idea. Part of me wants him to be scum, but I the sincerity of his posts is something I can’t shrug off. Probably town?
Mete0rShower Atogoholic
Atog calls Rodemy scummy in RVS (+town, I agreed)
Atog disappears (null)
Conclusion: null
Anaklusmos red_0mega
Red_0mega /barns Rodemy’s bad Ophidia attack (+scum)
In #74 he only asks about terminology. He doesn’t feel interested in the game at all. (+scum)
#80 makes me think that he’s not happy with Vaimes townclearing Ophidia (+Vaimes/Anak relation)
And #105 looks like he doesn’t like it when Hunt vouches for a towntell of mine (+Hunt/Anak relation)
#132: there’s a real tonal difference between how he answers Vaimes and how he answers Ophidia.
#133: he /barns Ghosting’s post that I didn’t like. (+scum)
Conclusion: scum
Cantripmancer
Joins the game late. I love his catch-up post (++town)
And everything he posts afterwards. Cantrip is town.
Conclusion: town
Rodemy
I thought his RVS felt off, but I think I misread his sense of humor (null)
Throws unnecessary pressure on Ophidia for the VT claim (+scum)
Calls out Vaimes for Garciaing a question (+town)
Is tying people together way too early in post #41 (+scum)
From #53 onwards, I think Rodemy is undoubtedly town. His reaction to my tunneling him feels genuine.
Conclusion: town
Shadowlancerx
#37: minor wording tell, but “I want to town read Vaimes” sounds off. Also, the @Rodemy part feels over explanatory (+scum)
#56 is a good unvote (+town)
#167: I like who he’s asking questions (+town)
Conclusion: probably town
Zomg’s T/S:
Maybe it’s just me, but if you look at the difference between how he talks about D_V and Vaimes in his townpile vs everyone else there, they are the only two where he doesn’t tell us that they can be scum too. All other reads he leaves open.
Town:
Zomgarcwind
Ophidia – early claim, that comes from someone desperate to make it a few days in rather than always die D1/N1. #174 could be scummy though, making the town assume the T:S ratios etc.
Vaimes- This feels like town vaimes right now, he is trying to stop stupid wagons from starting and scum hunting for real scum not for the easy lynch and flip
Rodemy- His behavior is the same behavior he has every day 1, even his scum game plays this way day 1. Im gonna stick him in the town pile for the day and look at him harder later down the line
Huntzilla- Has not posted much content, most of his stuff feels PTAP. Could be Scum with Rod or Rhand #100 feels like coaching but his couple of other posts feel town
D_V- Also hasn’t posted much, but as I reread I would start thinking something and he would say it, like his #113, literally 2 minutes ago I was thinking atog could be scummy because of his early posts then bam I read it.
Cantripmancer- Had solid questions for everyone, while ive never played with him before I find posts like his first content post to not come from a scum unless that scum is wolfing.
Null:
Shadowlancerx- I need more posts to read him, but im usually pretty good at doing it. Im hoping that he can be sorted by 3/4 thru the day. #167 I liked a lot though, town!shadow doesn’t use OOG to win, Scum!shadow would.
Scarbo- One post to let us know he would be back asap, nothing to go on.
Kittythegoddess- 1 Word this game, I need more!
red_0mega- Seems to play kinda cautiously, I cant tell if its refusing to name leads because he has none or if he overanalyses
Scummy:
Atogoholic- those few posts just seemed opportunistic. Why did you make them Atog?
Ghosting- You feel like scum trying to get wagons started, maybe this is you just hunting since it benefits you this game. Then you pre-emptavely post games, including a micro scum and neutral game. I think I just have a problem with you including a neutral game, are you hinting that you rolled it AGAIN? Like I think your wagon could be just bull*****, but I dunno, link me a non-micro scum game maybe?
Rhand- Seems like he is trying to hunt, but might just be that wine. Definitely appearing to make himself tied to Atog. Has been moving his vote around quite a bit. TSTBS or Wolfing?
My vote is going to one of you, please answer my questions so I can decide which one
Unvote
I have too many scumreads. I'll continue the reread after the weekend.
I don't know much about mafia roles but seems to me exactly thats why they make the chat anonymous. If the jailor trust enough the person they jailed to reveal who they are.. then well, they are taking a risk to get killed.
Even if it was blocked, then mafia would still send someone else to do the NK as they will see scum!D_V not participating in the chat, or they get a mod comment or something.
@Ghosting - Reminding you about the T/S list I asked for.
I should feel better about Rhand after this last post, but then I read the Vaimes part and instead of "My early tunneling made me overlook a lot it seems" I'm seeing Vaimes-getting-heat-better-change-read.com
@Rhand - how would Jailor claiming help town? (Post #852)
But as I said, it can wait.
Just for *****s and giggles, would you have revealed yourself to d_v after that d1?
No time right now, but I wanted to pop in and apologize for this. Whether you're scum or not, it's never my intent to make anyone miserable. I had a lot going on last night, and I wanted to get my thoughts out regardless, and so it probably came across a little more abrasive than it should have.
Huh. You don't strike me as the kind who would fake that kind of emotion. And that's not the a response I would expect from scum under attack. Dismissal, yes, "game now sucks", no.
Ok, yeah, when I have time, I'll do a thorough reread of our exchanges.
Rodemy, stop fishing for power roles.
Meteor: regardless of whether you're jailer or not, don't answer that question.
Stop painting me as fishing. I in no way want the jailor to claim.
That is the second time you have misconstrued my intentions.
Town:
So these are players that I'm very comfortable saying are town. I'll expand on reasons wherever necessary, but will try to include what I have written in the notes on my iPad right now.
Cantripmancer: I know that walls of text don't necessarily equate to being town, but I do feel that Cantrip's constantly been trying to solve the game. He isn't just posting walls of texts, he's asking questions, follow up questions, and it doesn't seem like he's doing so maliciously. An example is that he doesn't seem to have a problem with admitting he's wrong, or thinking about things without just tunneling. His play has generally come across as natural and with a genuine desire to win the game for town.
Iso: I've played with Iso more than a few times, and I do feel that he's playing how town Iso plays. Furthermore, when Iso's reads mimic my own, it solidifies my opinion that he's town. I can expand on this more if needed, but I won't lie and say there's piles of town points he's earned, rather, lots of intuition and him sharing my thoughts a lot (which whenever that happens I tend to townread the person because if I'm town and coming to the same conclusions, it makes sense that they're more likely to be town).
Ophidia: I remember townreading Ophidia earlier, I don't have anything from today that makes me think he's town or scum though, so this is just here for the same reasons as D1. I do want to see more from him though, is he v/la or am I just missing what he's said today? I do think that sometimes when he's posted it just seems pointless. At one point he said that a post I made was "interesting", and was curious about other people's thoughts, but went nowhere from there. Kind of read as opportunistic, but mostly read as lazy town.
Lean Town:
Mete0rShower: To be honest, I would have Meteor as full town if it wasn't that I felt so weird about Atog yesterday. Definitely a good job replacing in, if you're scum you've changed how I feel about the person you replaced quite a bit so props for that. I plan to read more into Meteor as time goes on and I get a better feel, but so far so good.
Shadowlancerx: I think I've already explained why I feel this way fairly recently, I'll link to the post if necessary but I'm pretty sure it was within the past day or two. Lean town because I only more recently started feeling this way, was feeling worse yesterday so not quite comfortable having him as lean town yet.
Rodemy: I don't know if this even needs explaining lol, I'll elaborate if needed but I've gone over how I think Rod is town enough as is.
Null:
Rhand: Rhand's play today has made me feel like I may have been tunneling yesterday, or he was talked to or something. I put him as null because I'm genuinely on the fence about him, like I said earlier; if other people come up as scum, I think my read on him would become much more clearly defined. I'm basically having a hard time deciding if what he's doing is opportunistic scum or consistent town, lol. Kind of makes you realize that no matter how much mafia you play, you can still feel so out of the loop with reads sometimes.
Scarbo: Need to read scarbo more, there's nothing in my iPad notes and off the top of my head I just remember feeling less than ideal about him. Someone can remind me to reread him or go into more detail later and I definitely will.
D_V: Still trying to figure out the D_V situation, planning on doing that when my workload decreases. If there is a jailer, and he/she thought D_V was scum, wouldn't they have said something? Killing 2 scum and losing 1 jailer seems good by D2. So I think either D_V is town, or there is no jailer?
Lean Scum:
Anaklusmos: I'm going to link you guys to specific posts later tonight about this, but basically I feel like he's contributed next to nothing while also playing opportunistically. And I always feel like there's that one scum who kind of sits in the back and quietly floats along while being eager, which is how I'm reading him. Like I said I'll link the posts later tonight because that's easiest.
Vaimes: I've also explained this a bit, will go over again if necessary.
Have to rush down to school so sorry if I left anything/anyone off, will add more later. Feel free to ask questions guys, I'll do my best to not be too inactive.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
He unvoted cantrip after zomg claimed his fake tracker role and i believe that's the last we've heard of him.
I feel that is more scummy than anything else. That, mixed with his poor attitude of me calling him out on his cantrip read puts him in the scum column for me.
More side notes that is who zomg placed a vote on with "rvs reasoning"
Scarbo saw nothing inherently scummy or inpressive about zomg.
I'm going off memory here because all i have is my phone and it's frustrating to navigate this site.
Scarbos lack of posting toDay also raises a few flags.
There ya go.
The way I see it, it will out a PR and we will still most likely have tons of ???? about who is telling the truth and what really happened, so I'm not sure how much help it would be right now anyway.
Unless you are expecting the Jailor to come forward with some proof that D_V is mafia, which I don't see possible.
BTW, didn't mean to discourage your 5 hours effort, just annoyed that I can't read you. Effort appreciated.
Will do.
This should remind any player who in the future posts a scum team that includes both Shadow and Rodemy that it doesn't make sense. (Flashbacks to Bare Bones)
Lol lazy Iso.
Nice. I was starting to get worried that you are a neutral that needs D_V dead.
What do you think about Huntzilla?
What is the other scum that you found?
Also, you still did not answer why you contradict your argument with cantrip by stating that who started the zomg wagon doesn't matter.
I was being cheeky about the fact that Rhand included nothing under my name in his reads post.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Iso: it's a reread of the first 8 or so pages. Kitty didn't post. And I'm not faking anything. Let's play. What seems fake to you?
I'm probabally really frustrated because I feel like you are town and just ignoring many things to fit your point. For example when I show someone voting Zomg because of my neutral claim you just 100% buried it and moved on.
You actually make a good point about the Neutral claim/Name claim thing I was running a few things in my mind at the time and thought I had done it differently. See and that's the thing you are definitively town because you are reading this. I just think that I as a scum player will be hyper aware of things like that and go back and check, instead of just saying how I think it went down.
Ghosting: Iso is one of my top townreads
10/10 I laughed.
I've only read one towngame of his, and then he and I were buddies in Trigger Happy.
So why aren't you voting him? He has done no gamesolving. Ergo, scum!scarbo
@meteor lemme look at him. It might take a bit since i dont have a cpu
++++++++^^^^
Hilarious