MTG Salvation

I'm fine with lynching Anak. I'd still like to be added to the Hunt/Anak chat.

Unvote
Vote: Anaklusmos

Quote from D_V »

And ghosting should Doc Shadow.

Please stop coordinating in the thread.
If we tell mafia what we are doing they will block the actions that help town and ignore the actions that help mafia.
Everyone should just do the most townie thing is their eyes.

Quote from Rhand »

We are lynching Anak or Ghosting toDay. I'm sure one of them is scum. If we lynch Ghosting and he flips town, then I'm positive that Anak is scum (town + watcher doesn't go. Trust me on this). That also means Shadow is the blocker scum because doc + jailer is over the top protection. And if we have one more scum, then look hard at Iso. He's really trying to go the other direction with the lynches.

If Ghosting is the scum from the Anak / Ghosting pairing, then Scarbo should be the blocker scum and the jailer our protection. Third scum in that case is probably Huntzilla.

Looks like I unvoted a bit hastily. I believe Ghosting is scum over Anak. I just don't see scum!Anak being as sincere in the chat as he has been.

Why would this set up even need a doc, as there doesn't appear to be any extra killing power floating around, and we have a jailer so there already is a protective role.

Could Ghosting be an actual scum!Doc? I've always known them as quacks but I remember once before quack means a fake!doc here.

Vote Ghosting

Quote from Ghosting »

Quote from Iso »

@Rhand: Pfftfft, yeah I'm going against the wagons I think are on TOWN. That makes me scum? Get real.

Go figure Ghosting is trying to paint me as scum for catching him. It's a day before deadline. No way would townGhosing have slowrolled his claim, here. He wants the Day to end on a town lynch.

I'm painting you as scum for your aggressiveness towards the doctor's wagon. There's no reason to not wait as long as possible to claim as doctor, especially if I can avoid it. In fact, many people suggested the doctor shouldn't claim, and I was even suggested as scum for mentioning the idea.

@Ghosting: I think it's entirely possible for Cantrip to be scum, here. Does you flipping scum confirm him as such? No, but it's a good springboard off of which to lynch him if need be when you DO flip scum.

The emphasis on the do really brings the point home, your eagerness to set up future dichotomies is certainly oozing town vibes.

Or, spoilers, I still think you're scum. Take a look at the Invitational. GJ was one of the three scum, and he claimed Doctor. I still pushed just as hard for his lynch. You're flailing and desperate to paint me as scum because you know I'm not going to let up on you. How much of your team have I caught, already? It's okay, you can tell me.

Quote from Mete0rShower »

I'm fine with lynching Anak. I'd still like to be added to the Hunt/Anak chat.

Unvote
Vote: Anaklusmos

Quote from D_V »

And ghosting should Doc Shadow.

Please stop coordinating in the thread.
If we tell mafia what we are doing they will block the actions that help town and ignore the actions that help mafia.
Everyone should just do the most townie thing is their eyes.

I'm like 80% sure you're scum at this point.

@Ghosting: Also, you admit to painting me as scum. Rofl.

No way all this power co-exists...

Unvote
Vote: Anaklusmos

I'm willing to block by town consensus if there is one. Otherwise I will be targeting a scum read.

What in the world did i wake up to.

Ill try and post some today, but there arr waaaay too many prs for this.


Also, didn't d_v claim he was a pr yesterDay? Did we determine that to be a lie?

I'm good with not placing a vote toDay. All my reads have gone to ***** and i haven't read enough.

We're nearing deadline now.
Unofficial votecount:

Ghosting(3): Anaklusmos, Iso, Huntzilla
Huntzilla(1): Vaimes,
Anaklusmos(5): Rhand, Ophidia, Mete0rShower, scarbo, Ghosting

7 to lynch.

If Ghosting goes to L-1 I'll hammer him.

Unvote
Vote Anak

You guys are throwing this game away and I am filled with rage.

Ghosting and scarbo voting in tandem.

come on

We have one dead scum and no dead townies. We're in a decent spot.

And I don't feel comfortable with the way Iso is jumping on a Doc claim. I'd rather chance the mislynch and try again later -- we likely have a dichotomy between Ghosting and Anak anyways.

Ok, 10 8.5 hours until deadline. Let's hammer this out.

I don't quite know what to think with all these PR claims. Between Shadow and Scarbo, behaviorally, I think Shadow's been the more active scumhunter, but I don't think we should lynch Scarbo. Between Shadow and Ghosting, I'm much more confident that Ghosting is town. I felt that way before Claim Madness 2017 occurred, and it just makes sense that I would be the NK target rather than DV. That said, I think that if Shadow were scum, DV would be dead, especially if DV claimed his role to Shadow. Looking at Anak, I don't like the idea of lynching a claimed info role, especially since we haven't had any other info roles revealed, but I can see where Rhand's coming from with regards to the setup issue. I still see a lot of elegance in the scum!Neighborizer role, and Hunt's behavior has been extremely sketchy. Again, I felt that way before all the reveals. So I think we should lynch Hunt.

Quote from D_V »

Hunt Scarbo Anak are probabally the scum team then.

I want Scarbo jailed.

I'll deal with the only other outlier which is Anak.

Unvote

Basically vote Hunt but not till we talk some more.

Quote from D_V »

And ghosting should Doc Shadow.

I am against directing power roles unless a near-foolproof set of actions is identified/lack of adhering to those actions strongly indicates scum. I especially don't think we should direct Ghosting. We need to leave the scum guessing on that.

Quote from Rhand »

We are lynching Anak or Ghosting toDay. I'm sure one of them is scum. If we lynch Ghosting and he flips town, then I'm positive that Anak is scum (town + watcher doesn't go. Trust me on this). That also means Shadow is the blocker scum because doc + jailer is over the top protection. And if we have one more scum, then look hard at Iso. He's really trying to go the other direction with the lynches.

If Ghosting is the scum from the Anak / Ghosting pairing, then Scarbo should be the blocker scum and the jailer our protection. Third scum in that case is probably Huntzilla.

While I see the logic in this, is there ANY way you're wrong? If we DO have doc + watcher, it would be pretty sad to chain lynch them. On the flip side, if Ghosting comes up town, then we could lynch Shadow first and give Anak more chances to prove himself.

Quote from Anaklusmos »

Ghosting you were told you stopped the NK? Cantrip, were you given any indication that anything had happened to you?

At this time I am still fine with lynching Ghosting, faking Doc is easy unless Cantrip can confirm what he is saying

No, I wasn't given any indication that I was saved or protected. But it's common that the target not be informed, right?

EWP: And Anak's at L-1. I'd go for Anak over Ghosting, but I still think that Hunt is the best option. And if we're trying to resolve dichotomies, I'd rather lynch Shadow to resolve the jailer/doctor situation, as I see the redundancy between the doc/roleblocker/jailer situation to be more concerning than the doc/watcher situation.

I will hammer Anak to prevent no lynch if it comes down to the wire, but I'd rather lynch Hunt.

Vote Hunt

I want to say that I'll have time to reread Hunt with all claims/new info in mind before deadline, but work is insane right now, and I don't feel optimistic.

Quote from Iso »

I'm like 80% sure you're scum at this point.

Okay.. Without a case this seems to me like seeds to mislynch me later on..
@Iso - how % sure are you of Ghosting?

Quote from Huntzilla »

Quote from Rhand »

We are lynching Anak or Ghosting toDay. I'm sure one of them is scum. If we lynch Ghosting and he flips town, then I'm positive that Anak is scum (town + watcher doesn't go. Trust me on this). That also means Shadow is the blocker scum because doc + jailer is over the top protection. And if we have one more scum, then look hard at Iso. He's really trying to go the other direction with the lynches.

If Ghosting is the scum from the Anak / Ghosting pairing, then Scarbo should be the blocker scum and the jailer our protection. Third scum in that case is probably Huntzilla.

Looks like I unvoted a bit hastily. I believe Ghosting is scum over Anak. I just don't see scum!Anak being as sincere in the chat as he has been.

Why would this set up even need a doc, as there doesn't appear to be any extra killing power floating around, and we have a jailer so there already is a protective role.

Could Ghosting be an actual scum!Doc? I've always known them as quacks but I remember once before quack means a fake!doc here.

Vote Ghosting

IMO Mafia having a doctor seems really weird, I could buy faking to be a Doc as mafia but being a scum!Doc? Doesn't make sense to me.
This is the first time I got a townie tone from one of your posts, where you actually are town trying to figure out different possibilities from your point of view.
If you really want to consider all possibilites, I would read the Unreliable Cops Mafia game - Anak played me good in that end game, he is a very good mafia player and he appeared sincere to me there too.. Not trying to be manipulative just sharing my experience with Anak. You are also welcome to compare my game here and there if you got the time (obviously not today).

Quote from Vaimes »

We have one dead scum and no dead townies. We're in a decent spot.

And I don't feel comfortable with the way Iso is jumping on a Doc claim. I'd rather chance the mislynch and try again later -- we likely have a dichotomy between Ghosting and Anak anyways.

That's actually a really good point.
Like, I was really happy to replace to a spot where there was one mafia lynched and no townies dead, but for some reason with Iso it feels like the opposite, from what I remember it went back even before people voted for Hunt/Anak.

Great idea, Vaimes. Let's lynch our Watcher instead of one of the three alleged abilities that has the ability to interfere with the Nightkill.

Great idea, Vaimes. Let's lynch our Watcher instead of one of the three alleged abilities that has the ability to interfere with the Nightkill.

Mostly, I'm just salty that the scumteam has become so painfully obvious and I'm the only person that seems to care/see it and that, of course, means our TRUE protective role is going to get blocked and I'm going to be the Nightkill and nobody is going to sheep me after I die.

Don't worry Iso, I will lynch ghost after you die.

Quote from Iso »

You guys are throwing this game away and I am filled with rage.

Ghosting and scarbo voting in tandem.

come on

are you bad or scum?

Quote from shadowlancerx »

I think ghosting makes more sense as the lynch just because he's involved in more dichotomies than Anak.

That's funny, because I think lynching you makes more sense for the same reasons. Doctor is *way* more likely to be town than jailer, imo.

Quote from Iso »

Great idea, Vaimes. Let's lynch our Watcher instead of one of the three alleged abilities that has the ability to interfere with the Nightkill.

It's hard to cut through the sarcasm, so I want to make sure I'm clear on where you stand. Are you saying that we *should* be lynching one of the RB/Jailer/Doc because it's super unlikely that all three are town? If so, I agree, but I see good reasons for each not to be lynched. I feel like the gamestate may be clarified after another Night (or, if it's not, then that in and of itself should provide clarification with claimed targets), and in the meantime, Hunt is a strong scumspect behaviorally. I don't agree with lynching Anak, but I don't know how to sort out the three protective roles, so I think we should go elsewhere toDay and see what toMorrow brings us.

If you have a coherent case against one of the three that you'd like to present, I'll listen, but so far all I've heard is "Jailer + Doctor + Roleblocker in the same game give me bad vibes, so lynch Ghosting and then lynch Cantrip when Ghosting comes up scum." With regards to why you're scumreading Ghosting, I see:

805: You get "weird vibes" from several of Ghosting's posts, but don't specify which ones, or why.
1049: You say "Based on my read, so far, my scum reads are Huntzilla, Ghosting, and Vaimes. That said, I absolutely hate scarbo's jump on Vaimes, here."
1075: You say "But I'm much more comfortable with lynching Huntzilla or Ghosting toDay, and after the hop on Vaimes, scarbo also seems like a good body to have flipped."
1076: You ask Ghosting why he thinks there isn't a town roleblocker. doc!Ghosting thinking that makes sense to me.
1085: Your rebuttal to Ghosting's response is that roleblocker wouldn't out themselves to highlight their target if we have a doc. But roleblocker wouldn't know that. And at that point, jailer was very much on the table, so your argument feels a little silly, given that a town!roleblocker would a) know that he was a likely candidate for the town protective role and b) have info that there is another similar protective role out there already.
1293: The only thing you say about Ghosting is "Ghosting's entrance is underwhelming AND he's somehow townreading Hunt. Thumbs Down" and that you want to lynch him or Hunt.
1308: In your ragepost you say "explain to me how Ghosting and Huntzilla are anything but painfully obvious scum together". But you don't explain why you THINK they ARE scum. You just town!prop yourself up and smear them.
1328: You say Rhand was a likely NK target because he caught some stuff on Ghosting, but, again, you don't specify what that is.
1350: You say "My scum reads are Ghosting, Huntzilla, and one of you/scarbo."
1354: This is the only place I see any kind of "case" on Ghosting from you: "Ghosting still reads as scum to me. (#239 reads like a major slip, along with just basically everything he posts.) And holy ****, #459 is a gigantic red "SCUMBUDDIES" flag with arcwind. Additionally, he tried to form a counterwagon on Rhand when the arcwind wagon was almost complete."
Here are the two posts you mention:
I'd love to hear your rationale on why 239 points to scum. And 439 you say is a gigantic red scumbuddies with Zomg flag, but Ghosting is countering Zomg's reasoning. He's also echoing my sentiments in 438. Meteor pointed this out to you in 1357 and asked him why, but your response?

Quote from Iso »

Quote from Mete0rShower »

@Iso - So your case is #239 and #459, and a counter wagon on Rhand.
Where in #239 do you see a scumslip, and what in #459 scream scumbuddies (considering Cantrip has similar response in #458).
Rhand and Ghosting seemed to think all Day 1 each other is a mafia, so its not like Ghosting started the wagon out of nowhere.
Nope, not seeing your case here.

You don't need to. I just need to convince enough people to lynch Ghosting; you don't have to be a part of that. (Also, you're ignoring my points on Ghosting in my initial 4-page notes.)

Meteor continues to question you in 1361, and in 1363 you say "If it doesn't make sense to you, it's because you're not parsing it beyond surface level. I've already explained it thoroughly enough that you should understand, but I'm willing to do it one last time if you still decide you can't figure out what's going on." But even though Meteor follows up and asks you to, you don't.
1388: You say it's adorable that Ghosting is pretending that he's not going to be lynched.
1394: You say "And because Hunt's role doesn't sway me one way or the other, and I have a stronger scum read on Ghosting? Like, duh?"
1407: You ""interesting"" Ghosting's post.
1410: You explain the interesting thing to Ghosting.
1428: You indicate that Ghosting should claim, and question Ophid as to why Ghosting and Hunt can't be scum together.
1518: Call Ghost lock scum and that doc claim is scum 101.
1519: You list the roles and conclude that of the three protective roles, Ghosting is the scum.
1525: You say that Ghosting is painting you scum and slowrolled his claim.
1530: Continued banter with Ghosting regarding his claim.
1531: "@Ghosting: Also, you admit to painting me as scum. Rofl."
1539: "Ghosting and scarbo voting in tandem." Explain what you mean. Like I'm a kindergartener.

Pretty sure that's every mention of or response to Ghosting that you've provided.

Nothing in there shows me that you seriously believe Ghosting to be scum. The closest I feel you came was when you expressed suspicion that Ghosting slowrolled his claim, but not one of your other points have made me feel suspicious of Ghosting. Not one. Nor have you done anything to show why you think I'm scum. It almost feels like you know Ghosting would flip scum and you're trying to tie me to him, but you've been very careful to not specify any of the reasons for your suspicions. I'm guessing to prevent me from defending against them. I'm sure you'll just choose to say that this is further "proof" that Ghosting and I are scumbuddies, but all I see from you is a broken record stuck in a groove that's not going anywhere. I feel like it's too late to lynch Iso toDay, but he needs serious scrutiny toMorrow.

Why are you white-knighting Ghosting? If I didn't believe he was scum, I wouldn't be pushing for his lynch. I'm not engaging in a quote wall with you or anyone else about Ghosting's behavior. I have pointed to his myriad of scum mindset tells. If anyone actually bothered reading both my posts and the posts of Ghosting's I'm calling into question and responding to and critically thought about them instead of just going "hurr durr I don't see it", we would have lynched Ghosting, by now.

Quote from Ophidia »

Don't worry Iso, I will lynch ghost after you die.

How comforting.

Quote from scarbo »

Quote from Iso »

You guys are throwing this game away and I am filled with rage.

Ghosting and scarbo voting in tandem.

come on

are you bad or scum?

Nope.

Iso: "Ghosting and Cantrip Scumteam 2017!!!" "Why are you white-knighting Ghosting, Cantrip?"



I *did* read your posts and the related Ghosting posts.

Why did you never respond to Meteor, even though you said you would?

I don't care if you engage in a postwall. I'd settle for just hearing why you think 239 and 439 are so significant.

Or hey: go ahead. Cherry pick even one of your arguments and explain it to me like I'm a child so that I can see your mindset.

While you're at it, explain why you're acting like an ass this game. I know you said you had some bad news a while back, and I'm sorry if that's continuing to color your experience, but that doesn't give you the right to be obnoxious and rude. I don't remember you being like this in any previous experience I've had with you.

Vote Ghosting

Scarbo's lurking in plain sight as well at this point I'll CFD on to him as well.

If for some miracle ghosting hits town I'll off Anak.

If not I'll off Hunt.

Quote from Iso »

Quote from Ophidia »

Don't worry Iso, I will lynch ghost after you die.

How comforting.

I am serious here Iso. If Anak is town and you become the NK, I will undoubtedly lynch Ghost for you.

This post just makes me feel that you are scum and is flailing around like a near-dead fish. I understand the feeling when your teammates got rekt by town and you did not even get a Nk through.

Iso, be optimistic, you are still a much, much better player than I am.

@Cantrip: Fact of the matter is, I just don't enjoy repeating myself. It is probably among my top 5 pet peeves. I become probably way more annoyed than is reasonable in response to being asked to repeat myself. The other issue here is that I mostly play Mafia on mobile these days between calls at work, so unless you want to actually quote the posts in question, the fact of the matter is that I'm just not likely to be able to pull up the posts and back up my stances, so I fill my posts with rhetoric like "why didn't you read my posts" just so I don't have to. I have zero interest in forming lengthy posts that include large amounts of data like I used to because it's time-consuming, usually gets glazed over, and I end up having to repeat myself, anyway. You could argue that I could bring my points together into one succint and compelling argument, but again, that likely requires me to spend hours at a time on my laptop a night that I just don't have the time and patience for any more. When it comes to Mafia, I've always been a fan of the Socratic Method - point things out, ask compelling questions, and allow people to come to the same conclusions that I have without me ramming it down their throats. Finally, and relatedly, I just don't really have interest in arguing with people in Mafia games any more. It's exhausting, and everything I've outlined above are things that make the game un-fun for me. I like to solve the game, point things out as they happen, and be done with it. I'm not going to bend over backwards to play the game in a specific way I don't enjoy as a result of people not following my thought process.

I am genuinely sorry you're finding me unpleasant to play with, as I find you to be an enjoyable person. I think I'm still burned out on Mafia and unfortunately don't have the time or emotional resources to commit to it in the way that I used to. However, because you're being extremely reasonable about all of this, I will happily answer your questions if you quote the posts in question that you want my insight on and frame your question accordingly.

Fair?

As for Mete0r, I probably decided his question wasn't important enough to warrant answering or maybe I just forgot or maybe it was after I decided he was scum. Not sure, as that requires going back and re-reading!

**** it.

vote anuk


LETS END THIS BICKERING.

Fliptime.

I am as claimed.

Bout of migraines has me not able to respond much. Sorry town.

Still not sure how the lynch came to me, but my apologies for not being able to defend myself

Votemetrics say Ghosting, scarbo, Rhand and Ophedia are the places to look tomorrow.

It also says that maybe Hunt actually is town.

Ghosting is scum, please lynch him tomorrow.

Trust hunt, Vaimes feels weird but not scum. Cantrip is town, meteor is town, Oph is town but newby so don't lynch that.

Shadow I think is town as Ghosting is scum, but if he somehow is town, then shadow is scum. DV is probably town. If Iso keeps up like he has in the latter half of today he is town, but if he does more of that taking a long time to read a few pages then post nothing he is scum.

U think Rhand is scum too, but can't really articulate why. Hunch I guess.

So that's where I am at, good luck all

Oh Scarbo is probably scum RB, it's the simplest explanation for claiming no target uesterday. Also fits with town jailer

So...if Ghosting is scum, then they really did try to kill DV?

You have Ghosting as scum but Cantrip as town, and he was allegedly protected by Ghosting.

Ok, lets see the possibilities of a scum team:

Ghostling (Not Doc)
Scarbo (Scum Rber)
???

Who is the third person?

Quote from shadowlancerx »

DV, I'm planning to jail the 7th person on my list in post 29 of our chat.

I just scanned the Disinheritance Spec talk again....

IDK why I keep accidentally clicking on that instead of our chat that I have Favorited as well.

Also guys, take note this is town communication. Shadow could have lurked.

Shadow is town.

Quote from Vaimes »

So...if Ghosting is scum, then they really did try to kill DV?

You have Ghosting as scum but Cantrip as town, and he was allegedly protected by Ghosting.

Yes cause I scared Huntzilla with my CC claim on Zomg.

Scarbo didn't care who they killed and who ever else is scum went with hunt.

Oh wait.

That actually doesn't make any sense in my own game state.

Sec I need to think about this.

Is having a Doc Jailer and Watcher for town PR plus me really that insane?

That's a lynch. One moment please. Lynch scene going up immediately.

Ghosting if you really are Doc you really need to Protect Shadow or Cantrip.

Votecount Day 2 Final
Ghosting(5): Anaklusmos, Iso, Huntzilla, shadowlancerx, D_V
Anaklusmos(7): Rhand, Ophidia, Mete0rShower, scarbo, Ghosting, Vaimes, Rodemy
Huntzilla(1): Cantripmancer

Anaklusmos has been lynched! They were Lucio, Town Watcher.

It is now Night 2. Night actions are due to me by 1600 of Friday (1/27).

I'll update the OP and other posts(forgot to post day 1 final votecount and some other touches).